What if the fans got what they want? [Archive]

What Would Kevin Do?

07-24-2004, 01:48 AM

What do you think would happen if the fans actually got what they wanted out of the WWE? Both the marks and the smarks alike? WHo would be getting pushed, who would be champ, what would the in-ring style be like, what would take up most of the television time, etc?

I was thinking about this earlier, and I don't know if things would be better or worse. While the internet community would love for certain people to be pushed to the moon, I think the marks wouldn't change things much. You have to remember that a lot of the time, the opinions of marks are somewhat forced upon them, therefore a decent amount of their perspective is fueled by what the WWE has already given them.

Ultimately, if the WWE handed over creative control to the people, what do you think would actually happen?

Innovator

07-24-2004, 01:49 AM

HHH would get the Hitler treatment from Lil Nicky, with the pineapples and the french maid outfit

Benoit and Jericho would main event every night with Bret Hart being the GM

FourFifty

07-24-2004, 01:55 AM

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 02:13 AM

Depends. Getting everything you want all the time is as horrible as bad booking and fan disappointment.

What Would Kevin Do?

07-24-2004, 02:31 AM

<font color=cyan>First off, the CW's would be get more air time, Kanyon and Sean O'Haire would have jobs, ECW would be back up, SmackDown's GM wouldn't change as often, Randy Orton would fued with HHH, and Hulk Hogan would be selling flowers at the side of the road.

So you think the casual fans like Sean O'Haire more than Hulk Hogan? While they don't compare to each other in the ring, there are large amounts of people who still love Hogan. And you have to take kids into consideration too, since a decent amount of kids watch wrestling. Kids are probably going to be more entertained by baby faces who play to the crowd. With that said, would Rikishi still have a job? What about Doink? Everyone loves Doink.

And Kane Knight, I know what you're saying. If the fans got exactly what they wanted, there would be nothing to look forward to. In the end, any kind of story lines would be null, and it would break down into pure wrestling, which would ultimately drive the casual fan away. Since the fans aren't in control, they don't know exactly what's going to happen.

KingofOldSchool

07-24-2004, 02:34 AM

If fans got what they wanted then they would still bitch because let's face it, someone the majority of the fans like will get misused because with all of the talent the WWE has there isn't enough prime spots available for the quality of workers they have. So in the end people will still bitch about "Wrestler A" not getting a proper push.

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 03:16 AM

So you think the casual fans like Sean O'Haire more than Hulk Hogan? While they don't compare to each other in the ring, there are large amounts of people who still love Hogan. And you have to take kids into consideration too, since a decent amount of kids watch wrestling. Kids are probably going to be more entertained by baby faces who play to the crowd. With that said, would Rikishi still have a job? What about Doink? Everyone loves Doink.
The real test is how they draw.

How was Hogan drawing in recent years? his last stint in the WWE? Not so well.

People may love hogan or doink, but do you think they will really draw people in? Rikishi was popular as sorta a moderately low entertainment shtick. I can't see him as a heavy draw in any circumstances.

Londoner

07-24-2004, 10:56 AM

I remember when we all went how Benoit should be champ just before Mainia, then i saw on this board a whole load of people bitched about it the day after. So it depends really. I've said this before and ill say it again, different people have different opinions so not everyone would push guys like Sean O'Haire.

Londoner

07-24-2004, 11:00 AM

And Kane Knight brought up a good point. This is what makes the WWE good to watch sometimes, we don't always get what we want. If we always got what we want it would be incredibly boring.

Wrestlingfan18

07-24-2004, 11:33 AM

i just want jeff hardy to come back to the WWE

FlashyT01

07-24-2004, 12:54 PM

There would be more than one title. They would bring back some old school wrestlers and WCW and ECW would come back. I perfer ECW but that just me.

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 01:10 PM

And Kane Knight brought up a good point. This is what makes the WWE good to watch sometimes, we don't always get what we want. If we always got what we want it would be incredibly boring.
The current problem is that there's very little payoff in the WWE right now.

I think fans are the greatest marketing tool available. Teaches you exactly what will go over and won't. I don't think the fans should be satisfied all the time, but I do think that their tendencies should be noted and a factor in booking.

However, I wouldn't put a bunch of total fanboys in charge of booking. That's more or less what we've got right now, in Vince pushing for things that don't sell. We get to watch green Mordecai suck up the ring for months, because a fanboy refuses to accept he's not over, we get to suffer through more "poopy" cracks from Cena...Or look at Katie Vick, which proceeded despite low ratings and protests from wrestlers; or JBL, which is considered by many (even i the biz) to be too far...Even for wrestling.

It's not the only reason he's bad for the biz, but it's part of it.

Stickman

07-24-2004, 01:15 PM

There would be more than one title. They would bring back some old school wrestlers and WCW and ECW would come back. I perfer ECW but that just me.

There is more than one title... :-\

07-24-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by King Of Old School
If fans got what they wanted then they would still bitch because let's face it, someone the majority of the fans like will get misused because with all of the talent the WWE has there isn't enough prime spots available for the quality of workers they have. So in the end people will still bitch about "Wrestler A" not getting a proper push.

Pretty much what I would say.

tucsonspeed6

07-24-2004, 01:30 PM

You can't let the marks get what they want. The storylines would never progress. Faces would endlessly remain face and they would all be main eventers while heels would constantly lose and would eventually settle in jobber roles. Every match would become a squash match and even the marks would get so bored with it that they'd quit watching.

With Hogans latest return, I think that's kinda what happened. The WWE gave the fans exactly what they wanted, which was the return of their 80's hero. He squashed everyone and every vignette was about some heel gritting their teeth over Hulkamania still ruling and it became pathetic. There we had an old man beating down guys he couldn't even lift anymore, every match boiled down to a punchfest followed by a legdrop, and we had more red and yellow forced down our throats than any living being could handle....but it was what the fans wanted...

The CyNick

07-24-2004, 01:53 PM

I think if people complain about Benoit as champ its because he hasn't actually been given a chance to be the top guy, thats still HHH. Thats the one big change I think they should make. I mean since the day after Summerslam '02 HHH has been the focal point of RAW, regardless of who was carrying around his belt. I'd like to see them once actually put someone else on top for 4-6 months and see what would happen with business. Whats the worse that could happen? I mean shows are being cancelled left and right, heck even the last RAW PPV couldn't draw close to a sellout.

And that leads to what KK was talking about, you have to listen to the fans in the sense of how they spend their money. Hunter has been the focal point of the show for 2 years now and business has steadily gone down. Eddie Guerrero was on top for 4 months, and got one sub par PPV buy and the title was immediately taken from him. So maybe the fans are saying, they are sick of HHH on top (not that I think thats the main problem, but its a big one).

But the WWE gets trapped because they are in the arenas and they hear guys like HHH and Taker getting huge pops, so they figure they are over and should stay on top. But thats the worst thing to use a gauge of who is over. They shoud check their receipts at the end of the night and use that to determine who should be pushed and who shouldn't.

tucsonspeed6

07-24-2004, 02:07 PM

But it is obvious that the WWE does have an occasional intent on learning what the fans want by giving their online polls and other things.

The whole Diva Search, I have assumed thus far, is to find certain demographics. Looking at their Raw ratings, they can compare those ratings to unique votes from different individuals. Then, using statistical data on how many people do these call-in votes compared to those who choose to wait and see, bang, they've got their demographic. Some-odd percent of their viewers are male or have an interest in bikini clad women. My point is, they do the same thing with their online polls. One poll recently asked "Who will win the IC title rematch?" and with the recent news of the Orton/Benoit match at SS, one can assume this was to gague how many people believe that Orton has talent.

So my point is, I don't think they really give us what we want, but the want to know what we want so they can predict how we will react when we are given what they give us. (Damn....TS6 overload!!!)

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 02:23 PM

Well, their polls are specifically slanted to give us an "option."

Think TRL. Each week we got to "choose" 10 pop acts out of 13, 16, maybe 20 (if we're lucky), pop acts. These are then called the top acts, because on a short list of their design, people voted for these acts.

Londoner

07-24-2004, 05:58 PM

Champion of Europa

07-24-2004, 06:58 PM

Hahahahaha

Like we could get the smarts and marks to agree on what we want.

I like leaving it up to the company as to what they want to do, gives me something to talk about, good or bad.

The CyNick

07-24-2004, 08:22 PM

What i meant was literally the night after wrestlemania, i came on here expecting to see people pleased about Benoit being champ and yet people bitched about it saying he doesn't have enough charisma and all that bullshit.

Well there are some people who dont like Benoit, so maybe those people were bitching. I was happy to see Benoit but I was skeptical that he would actually get to be the main eventer on the show (hey I was right!) because of Pinocchio. There's a difference between being skeptical and bitching about him winning.

Now, if someone was saying he should win it one day and then were upset because he won the title, well those people would be very stupid and should be ignored at all costs.

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 08:32 PM

What i meant was literally the night after wrestlemania, i came on here expecting to see people pleased about Benoit being champ and yet people bitched about it saying he doesn't have enough charisma and all that bullshit.
YEs, but (And please try and understand this):

These are people who didn't like Benoit. They weren't Benoit marks who suddenly switched once he got the title.

Champion of Europa

07-24-2004, 08:34 PM

YEs, but (And please try and understand this):

These are people who didn't like Benoit. They weren't Benoit marks who suddenly switched once he got the title.

I am one of those people who don't like Benoit.

ColdwaVer

07-24-2004, 08:34 PM

Depends. Getting everything you want all the time is as horrible as bad booking and fan disappointment.

That's the wisest thing I've heard in the wrestling forum in weeks. Except that thing I said about KY Jelly being good for any Raw superstar's career. :shifty:

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 08:34 PM

And I'm less than pleased with Benoit's title run. I'm not gonna complain about Benoit, but it's stupid to have a B-Listed World Champion. This belt is supposed to be a fucking plot device for big storylines and shit. The only credibility it really has is in the interest of the fans. It's not a fashion statement, and it's not a real award.

Londoner

07-24-2004, 10:35 PM

YEs, but (And please try and understand this):

These are people who didn't like Benoit. They weren't Benoit marks who suddenly switched once he got the title.

Yeah it just seemed that way though cos no one before that night were saying Benoit shouldn't be champ, and then all of a sudden i only ever saw people bitching about Benoit being champ, the ones who wanted him to be champ just went quiet it seemed, maybe that's just my short-term memory, i dunno.

Favre4Ever

07-24-2004, 11:04 PM

The World would explode.

And Eddie Guerrero would still be champ.

And John Cena would actually say stuff worth hearing.

And RVD would be a title contender.

The list goes on..........

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 11:09 PM

Yeah it just seemed that way though cos no one before that night were saying Benoit shouldn't be champ, and then all of a sudden i only ever saw people bitching about Benoit being champ, the ones who wanted him to be champ just went quiet it seemed, maybe that's just my short-term memory, i dunno.
Ton of people were bitching because they suddenly saw someone they didn't like as champ. Fair enough.

I dunno. I defended Benoit multiple times. I didn't keep track of how many people defended him post-championship victory tho. You might be right.

Not everyone will be happy all the time.

Shawn Mega

07-24-2004, 11:44 PM

The real test is how they draw.

How was Hogan drawing in recent years? his last stint in the WWE? Not so well.

People may love hogan or doink, but do you think they will really draw people in? Rikishi was popular as sorta a moderately low entertainment shtick. I can't see him as a heavy draw in any circumstances.

I remember that the 2002 and early 2003 ppvs with Hogan drew a 100,000 more buys than the current average buyrates.

Mark and Smarks are different in many ways.

Marks don't like Benoit as many people think. JBL get more crowd reactions than Benoit,but Internet smarks won't admit that.

I'm neither,am just a fan of wrestling. WWE.com chatroom is the only place on the net where the average fan can talk with other fans without acting like you know everything about the business.

I just want the brand split to end. They need to put their best and most popular wrestlers on one roster.

HHH,Flair,Orton,Batista,Benoit,Rock,Foley,HBK,Kane,Matt,Christian,Shelton,Jericho,Edge,All the women,Rhyno,Tajiri,La Resistance,Hurricane,Maven,Regal,Eugene,Taker,Cena,Eddie,Angle,JBL,Dudleyz,RVD,Rey,Booker,Luther,Cha vo,Noble,London/Kidman,Bashams,FBI,Holly,Gunn,Spike,Dupree,Venis.That's all you need,get rid of the dead weight.Have only one World champ.Keep the US and IC titles.Have only one tag team champs.Get rid of the Cruiserweight title.

You know what,fuck every wrestling website(except the Official sites like WWE.com,NWATNA.com,etc.).Fuck all the wrestling forums.Fuck all the smarks.I'm through with it all. IM DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys really need to leave all this shit and sign up for the WWE.com chatroom and just be a regular fan again.

Kane Knight

07-24-2004, 11:46 PM

LOL You suck. Go away.

ilt_undertaker

07-24-2004, 11:53 PM

What the hell is wrong with this Shawn guy?

Kane Knight

07-25-2004, 12:01 AM

His mama didn't breast feed him.

Or her tit was lead lined.

ilt_undertaker

07-25-2004, 12:08 AM

lol, so should I bad rep him, or would it cause more damage to him?

FourFifty

07-25-2004, 12:16 AM

<font color=cyan>I guess this thread has given me a new respect for the bookers... Seriously. It seems everyone wants to push their favs, no one is talking about heels, and Spike Dudley will remain off camera for the most part.

Londoner

07-25-2004, 06:34 AM

At the end of the day I think it comes down to what Vince Mcmahon thinks.I remember reading before that he decides to change the script of the shows over n over or something, so it must be a hard job if that is the case. And also the fact that they employed someone in the booking role just because he had close contacts with Stephanie(cant remember who, it was on the front page somewhere) but he knew nothing about wrestling, couldn't of helped much. I think they fired him now though thank god, that maybe why Smackdown is getting better recently....

Londoner

07-25-2004, 06:41 AM

lol, so should I bad rep him, or would it cause more damage to him?

The only thing keeping me from bad repping him is that he's got so many bad reps already i don't think it would make a difference.

Aussie Skier

07-26-2004, 05:59 AM

I was thinking about this not so long ago.

Ok, Vince and the WWe have dopped tha ball on numnerous occasions.
However, they do get it right on occasions. Like, 4 example, holding out on benoit getting the title, then him finnally getting it at WMXX made it even more special.
Giving vince the title, to build up the vince-austin feud, and having vince win the rumble to again build up vince-austin.

Mayo

07-26-2004, 03:39 PM

You cannot give both the smarks and marks what they want. KK said it best when he said that getting everything that you want is as horrible as bad booking. There should be times when there are heels as champs with awesome faces vying to take the title from them. The struggle of fighting an evil GM and ultimately winning the title after a long time is what marks and smarks enjoy watching. There should be times when heels dominate, and when faces dominate, but these should be spikes of highs and lows through time. Things should be really good for faces (Eddie and Benoit having titles) at times, and really good for heels at times (Evolution and JBL holding titles). This is the way that the business is and should be run.