RAW last night....(SPOILER)

[Normal Is Me]

Tell me if I am wrong but why would have Shawn Michaels be counted down for the three? Yes, his shoulders were indeed on the mat but who was covering him. No part of Triple H's body was covering him. Shawn Michaels had his body over HHH's.I was under the impression that the only way to be pinned was for someone to be ON TOP OF YOU while your shoulders are on the mat.

Or is this the new Triple H rule? Where at any point, it doesn't matter if Triple H is pinning you or not, as long as your shoulders touch the mat, Triple H scores the pinfall.

[Normal Is Me]

*sigh*

Yet another pathetic blame on HHH. It had been the writers decision to have Eric Bischoff take over as ref on the match after Hebner had been taken out. That way, they can have Bischoff cheat by having HHH win instead even though he counted HBK the one two three. Storywise, it was Eric Bischoff's decision to have HHH win instead. It was the writers way of bringing in Stone Cold. Stone Cold sees Bischoff doing the wrong thing which makes him come out. Makes sense now? None of this is HHH's decision, dumbass. Get a clue.

Think about it, if the referee wasn't knocked out, none of this would have happend, and Stone Cold wouldn't have came out. HBK would have gotten the belt last night if Eric Bischoff didn't referee the match. This was also an agnle to explain the re-match for HBK vs. HHH at the Royal Rumble.

So it looks like HBK is definitely going to be the next champ for sure. :y:


Whoa, easy dude! I didn't blame HHH for anything, I know darn well that the writers wrote what happened last night and not Triple H, :shifty: . BUT seriously, I was just raising a point that Shawn Michaels was not covered. His shoulders were down, but no one was covering him. I also just cracked a little humor directed at Triple H.

P.S. Duuuude, geez lighten up, don't take everything so seriously man. :y:

[Kenny]

P.S. Duuuude, geez lighten up, don't take everything so seriously man. :y:

Yeah... I'm not insulting you Kane but you really do need to take it easy a little.

Last night I wasn't too happy with the finish of the match. Whether I love HHH or hate HHH is irrelevant. I'm just tired of seeing the belt on him. He's had plenty of long runs, along with a few short runs, and I think it's time to put the belt on somebody else and keep it on them for a while.

However, honestly I was extremely impressed with Raw. I felt like I was watching it back in 1998. It just kept my interest. Stone Cold Steve Austin was very entertaining. I read that after the show he got JR's chair and rolled on it down the ramp, only to wipe out at the end. :lol:

The crowd did a lot for the show as pumped as they were. But Raw definately had it's moments. Kane doing the old "Kane comes in and destroys, then leaves" thing was great. I'm hoping that he'll continue to do this until an Undertaker return. How about Rob Van Dam getting a CLEAN win over BPP? I think that was the first clean, clear cut victory in a match like that I've seen in maybe 2 years.

My only complaint is it's predictability. At no point in the main event did I believe Shawn was going to win the title. I wanted to, so bad... and at a few points I thought I fooled myself. Like after the 3 count... but I still had that feeling like "Okay, how's Triple H going to keep the title?"

But hey, if I get Raw's like last nights through out 2004... I don't care what people here say consider the markiest mark since Marky Mark.

[Krow]

*sigh*

Yet another pathetic blame on HHH. It had been the writers decision to have Eric Bischoff take over as ref on the match after Hebner had been taken out. That way, they can have Bischoff cheat by having HHH win instead even though he counted HBK the one two three. Storywise, it was Eric Bischoff's decision to have HHH win instead. It was the writers way of bringing in Stone Cold. Stone Cold sees Bischoff doing the wrong thing which makes him come out. Makes sense now? None of this is HHH's decision, dumbass. Get a clue.

Think about it, if the referee wasn't knocked out, none of this would have happend, and Stone Cold wouldn't have came out. HBK would have gotten the belt last night if Eric Bischoff didn't referee the match. This was also an agnle to explain the re-match for HBK vs. HHH at the Royal Rumble.

So it looks like HBK is definitely going to be the next champ for sure. :y:

:nono: Is that "dumbass" comment really necessary?

Anyway, to really address his comment - sans the "Triple H rule" thing - it's just a storyline thing, for one. Obviously, it was a great way to build up a(nother) fued between HHH and HBK by having HBK "win" the belt in his hometown. But that shoulders-down thing is sort of a moot point.

I'm not an expert on the rules of wrestling :shifty: but if someone's covering their opponent with both his own shoulders down, it serves as sort of an alternate "count out" resolution, I guess. Trips' shoulders were down, but so were Michaels', so I guess the premise is that some sort of technicality voided the cover.

But what I'm confused about is - and this is exercising logic, something the WWE seems to lack these days - why would Bischoff even count the shoulders if he saw that Shawn's were down, too? Does anyone remember WrestleMania VIII, when Bret Hart and Roddy Piper did a double clothesline or knocked each other out somehow, and Piper landed with his head on Bret's chest/stomach. Clearly, he was covering him, however lackadaisically, BUT he was at an angle where his shoulders were down, too. The Brain and Gorilla Monsoon even had a little banter about the matter as it happened. I don't remember it and can't quote it directly, but it was to the extent of Heenan yelling at the ref to count Bret out, while Gorilla (likely with a "WILL you be serious...") mentioned the matter of both men's shoulders being down, so it wasn't a legal cover.

But really, there's no sense arguing it. It was just a way to get this feud going (again). That, and to bring Austin back in as sherriff.

And Dark Kane, maybe if you treated other posters with a bit of respect, or at least stop with the petty name-calling, people wouldn't hate you.

[Kenny]

Yeah, the WWE is definately missing logic. I think when it comes to logic they f*cked up with Kane the most. When he took off his mask that was classic. "Is... Is that a human?" Like it was Freddy f*ckin' Kruger or something.

Last night, with the exception of the OBVIOUS HBK screw job, I really felt that the WWE was beginning to listen to the fans. Clean wins, Kane's run-in, old school Stone Cold, and although HBK lost that match he dominated most of it. Also, last night had some set ups.

Unfortunately the most predictable of those set ups is the HBK / HHH rematch where HHH is obviously going to cheat to win. But there's plenty to look forward to for the new year other than that. I'd die to know where Orton and Cena will be at this time next year.

[loopydate]

I was watching RAW last night, and my sister walked past on her way to her room and watched for a while, since she used to watch a lot with me when we were kids. As soon as HBK hit the Chin Music and fell back, I turned to her and said "Double pin."

I hate when I'm right...

[ColdwaVer]

BUT seriously, I was just raising a point that Shawn Michaels was not covered. His shoulders were down, but no one was covering him.

Too lazy to look up the year (was either 91 or 92), when Ric Flair won the WWF Title from Randy Savage, he did it by causing him to pass out in the figure 4, causing his shoulders to hit the mat for a 3-count. Flair wasn't covering him technically, but because Savage's shoulders were down, the ref counted the pin.

And HHH technically didn't WIN last night's match either, he was declared the winner by way of champion's advantage in a double-3-count.

[c4g2]

The match was declared a tie because HBk and HHH's shoulders were on the mat during the decisive pinfall.

HHH retained because of champion's advantage during a tie or DQ or countout.