Its Looking Bad For The Coming NHL Season

[CosaNostra]

It looks like that there is a possibility that there might not be a 2004/05 NHL season due to labour issues.

Where do you stand on the issue of this labour dispute; the players or the owners?

[road doggy dogg]

Owners 100%

Fucking greedy players, nobbody is worth $10-11 million a year

The NHLPA are a bunch of fucktards. They are against a salary cap. Might as well just let the league fold

[BCWWF]

Yeah, what it all comes down to is that the NHL doesn't generate enough money to pay the players what their salaries have evolved to. You make as much as your league brings in, not as much as players in other leagues.

[YOUR Hero]

Considering Ottawa, Buffalo, Pittsburg, Phoenix (to name a few) are on thin ice, considering the Canadian teams are always struggling to make ends meet and/or provide competitive teams I have a hard time feeling any empathy for players that are making more money than ever before.

[Gertner]

Here is what ticks me off. Even if they have a salary cap, players will just load up on signing bonuses, so what's the point.

[BCWWF]

Lol, why is Gertner a real piece of trash? Does he suck a lot or something?

[Gertner]

o.k dickhead, where did that come from?

[Splaya]

What they should do is every player should get no higher than 3 million a year. Once they get above like 30 goals or 80 points, then the bigger bonuses kick in. If they don't get that, then all they get is the 3 million. It's absolute bullshit that a player like Jagr gets paid 10 million to get 15 goals and like 40 points :mad:

[Gertner]

if the salary cap is gonna work, the NHL will also need to cap signing bonuses or this will turn into the NBA/NFL

[BCWWF]

Look at your rep, your rating is "a piece of trash." No disrespect, I'm just questioning why your rep is so low, because I didn't think you were a dick? Then again I don't really have any experience with you to know. Whats the deal behind it?

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah signing bonuses will still be a problem. But having a cap is still better than not having one, signing bonuses or not. Besides, with clubs losing money like they are,they'd be stupid to still fork out all that money for signing bonuses.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, I don't think signing bonus's and performance clauses will be a huge problem because the teams are already so low on money. Agents can be such pieces of shit.

[The Icon of Elisim]

I think that both sides are lying, but nonetheless I find it easier to side with the owners than the players

[Yashamaga]

Also 100 % owners.

btw, Jagr puts up a little more than 15 goals. He can score 40 points with one arm ;)

[YOUR Hero]

...too bad he doesn't care to though, Yash

[Loose Cannon]

Jagr rules, or used to. Canada is going down today :mad:

Gooo Czechs :D

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Canada is going down today :mad:

Gooo Czechs :D

[Gertner]

Look at your rep, your rating is "a piece of trash." No disrespect, I'm just questioning why your rep is so low, because I didn't think you were a dick? Then again I don't really have any experience with you to know. Whats the deal behind it?
Triple A spammed my rep so it put me in a huge ass hole. My rep has improved though almost 1100 points since he stopped.

[MoRcHeEbA]

if there is a salary cap why would owners give people huge signing bonuses. Honestly their will probably only be a handful of teams (Toronto,Dallas,Rangers) who will give out huge signing bonuses. The owners have the players by the balls on this one.

[YOUR Hero]

Replacement players.

[The Outlaw]

The Replacements :love:

[BCWWF]

Sidney Crosby could debut

[road doggy dogg]

And that is relevent because...

[BCWWF]

Replacement players...unless of course you want to see "A League of Their Own" take over the NHL.

[Gertner]

if there is a salary cap why would owners give people huge signing bonuses. Honestly their will probably only be a handful of teams (Toronto,Dallas,Rangers) who will give out huge signing bonuses. The owners have the players by the balls on this one.
lol you say that now, but when Markus Naslund is holding out for a 10 million dollar signing bonus and the Canucks won't pay up and the team is suffering, the owners will pay up.

[Gertner]

also, if some teams will pay that out, THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE LOCK OUT IF NOTHING WILL CHANGE CHEEBA!!!!!!!!

What would stop the Leafs paying out 3 mill to Glen Murray and then giving him a 7 million dollar signing bonus that wouldn't count against the cap? Nothing! If you are gonna cap the players salaries, then you have to cap the signing bonuses, because agents will use this to their advantage and you'll have situations like the NFL where palyers like Eli Manning can still hold their teams at ransom for money, even though it doesn't effect the salray cap.

[MoRcHeEbA]

also, if some teams will pay that out, THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE LOCK OUT IF NOTHING WILL CHANGE CHEEBA!!!!!!!!

What would stop the Leafs paying out 3 mill to Glen Murray and then giving him a 7 million dollar signing bonus that wouldn't count against the cap? Nothing! If you are gonna cap the players salaries, then you have to cap the signing bonuses, because agents will use this to their advantage and you'll have situations like the NFL where palyers like Eli Manning can still hold their teams at ransom for money, even though it doesn't effect the salray cap.

BECAUSE ONLY SOME TEAMS WILL YOU RETARD. if 3 teams pay out crazy amount there's still 27 teams that wont. :roll:

[Gertner]

3!!!!! I'll throw out teams that'll do it

Detroit
Toronto
Rangers
Dallas
Phoenix
Philly
Montreal
Colorado



How is this different from now! The Big spenders will continue to spend big. 'Having a cap without a cap on signing bonuses does nothing!

[Funky Fly]

Greedy ass players. Whatever happened to playing for the love of the sport?

[Gertner]

it went out along with "winning doesn't matter as long as you try your best"

[BCWWF]

With the salary cap those teams can do that, but only to an extent

[Gertner]

no they can't. look at the NFL

[MoRcHeEbA]

Salary caps will generate more income for the teams. If they give people huge signing bonuses and then complain then the people wont go to the games thus they will lose money again. They wont do it.

[Gertner]

tell that to leaf fans, wings fans etc.... you could throw anything out, and people will go.

If players hold out for high signing bonuses, then it kinda cancels out the salary cap, and were stuck like we've always been.

[MoRcHeEbA]

These are the payroll is the NHL from last year in Millions. if there was a cap system in place of 31 million dollars and a team like Toronto who has a 62 million payroll was still making money then more power to them if they want to sign people to signing bonuses that are gonna take more of there money to them. If the owners were to complain though then I think the shit would just hit the fan.

Anaheim - 53
Atlanta - 28
Boston - 46
Buffalo - 32
Calgary - 36
Carolina - 35
Chicago - 30
Colorado - 63
Columbus - 34
Dallas - 68
detroit - 77
Edmonton - 33
Florida - 26
LA - 53
Minnesota - 27
Montreal - 38
Nashville - 21
New Jersey - 48
NY Islanders - 40
NY Rangers - 76
Ottawa - 39
Philly - 68
Phoenix - 39
Pittsburgh - 23
San Jose - 34
St. Louis - 61
Tampa Bay - 34
Toronto - 62
Vancouver - 42
Washington - 50

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

I'm on neither side, I just want them to sort themselves out so we can have a season.

There must some kind of middle ground?

I would think a year without a season would do more damage to the situation.

[YOUR Hero]

You've got players stating they'll play in Europe or the WHL if that gets going. I say if they want to be protected within the NHLPA, doing such a thing would nullify said players rights.
Also, if the NHL players can look around for alternative work, then the NHL owners can look for alternative players.

[VonErich Lives]

Caps do help teams, help them stay in business and stay competitive. Not a luxury tax like basketball or baseball, but a cap like football.

The tops players still get paid, but they also renegotiate to help the team. The Pats top stars do it all the time, Milloy didn't and got cut.

No cap on signing bonuses makes not sense... well, not a cap on the bonus but it should apply twords the cap.

in the NFL the yearly cap figure is.

that years salary + the signing bonus divided by # of years of the contract.

So, say 5mil a year for 5 years w/ a 25mil bonus.

The cap figure is 10mil/yr.

What then happens if you cut a player say after year #2, you don't get hit for salary, but you get hit for the rest of the bonus for a player no longer on your team.

Hockey needs a cap, to many teams don't make money and aren't competitive, good competition helps the league (look at the NFL)

[DaveWadding]

Basketball has a cap VEL.

[Gertner]

These are the payroll is the NHL from last year in Millions. if there was a cap system in place of 31 million dollars and a team like Toronto who has a 62 million payroll was still making money then more power to them if they want to sign people to signing bonuses that are gonna take more of there money to them. If the owners were to complain though then I think the shit would just hit the fan.

Anaheim - 53
Atlanta - 28
Boston - 46
Buffalo - 32
Calgary - 36
Carolina - 35
Chicago - 30
Colorado - 63
Columbus - 34
Dallas - 68
detroit - 77
Edmonton - 33
Florida - 26
LA - 53
Minnesota - 27
Montreal - 38
Nashville - 21
New Jersey - 48
NY Islanders - 40
NY Rangers - 76
Ottawa - 39
Philly - 68
Phoenix - 39
Pittsburgh - 23
San Jose - 34
St. Louis - 61
Tampa Bay - 34
Toronto - 62
Vancouver - 42
Washington - 50
but that will just have it like it is right now. The rich teams will be able to afford to sign marquee players to big signing bonuses, and therefore, attract the big name players. Pittsburgh will not be able to afford to sign players to 10 million dollar signing bonuses like a team like toronto or detroit.If your going to have a salaray cap, put a salaray cap on signing bonuses.

[VonErich Lives]

Basketball has a cap VEL.

Yes, but it's not a true cap like the NFL.

You can go over it.

I know there are a few ways around it... one is they had what was known as the "Larry Bird Rule" you can resign your own player and go over the cap.

Plus they have "Salary exceptions" which allow you to go over, but when you hit a certain point over you pay a luxury tax.

So, yes, there is a cap, but it's really bullshit since almost every team goes over it.

[BCWWF]

I know the Wolves for example pay a huge tax on going over the salary cap

[DaveWadding]

So it's a pussy cap...it's still a cap.

[road doggy dogg]

Haha what the fuck, that sounds so pointlessly retarded.



It'll probably work in the NHL.

[VonErich Lives]

So it's a pussy cap...it's still a cap.

Sure... and you can call a dog a cat, doesn't mean it is.

There setup is kinda like baseball, where you pay luxury tax for going over a certain level.

A cap is the NFL, where you can't go over.

[YOUR Hero]

Hard cap, soft cap. There are different types of caps. The NHL needs a cap, what form I don't exactly know. Perhaps something like one marquee player is exempt from the salary cap. That's something the CFL did that seemed to work.

[Took]

the cap thing is fine, cept mr. bettman has it starting out way too low. Many teams already double the proposed cap, and I think he should be revising this. Both parties need to at least give and take for anything to work out, otherwise this is all pointless.

[YOUR Hero]

Yes, the proposed cap at the moment is ridiculous.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah really, $31 million is pretty low. I think there's like, 4 teams? under that. Nashville has the lowest payroll in the league at $23 million. I dunno, maybe make it at like $50 million to start out, then steadily adjust it over the next couple years.

[road doggy dogg]

And on the subject of caps and all, the Broncos were just recently fined $950,000 and a 2005 third-round draft pick for going over the cap in 1998 or something. Not really relevent, but thought I'd mention it :mad:

[YOUR Hero]

I know its just a staring point for negotiation, this $31-$32 Million cap, but it's a ridiculous starting point. The cap should be, like RDD said, $50 million. The league should also set a minimum. That would at least give the appearance that no team is just icing a shit team... that they are at least trying. I like the idea of a marquee player exemption.

Huge fines and draft choices should be the penalty for going over the cap.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah, maybe the league should propose a bit higher of a cap so the NHLPA won't be totally turned off to it.

I know in the NFL, they have a 53-man roster, plus the 8-man practice squad. What is the roster size in the NHL? I think it's around 26 or so, but I'm not certain. Plus they have the minor leagues or whatever.