The save rule in Baseball

[ct2k]

What do you think of it?

A few weeks back a guy on the mlb show over here had a bit of a rant about the save rule and how bollocks it is sometimes.

I bring this up because Joe Nathan came into the Twins/Tigers game last night a faced one batter and got his 42nd save.

Now am i the only one who thinks thats a load of tripe?

I'm not knocking Nathan or any closers or the role in general, but should so much be weighted on a statistic which can be gained by pitching to one guy, or by pitching an inning with your team up 3 zip, facing guys at the bottom of the order or something?

[YOUR Hero]

wins can happen in exactly the same way.

[YOUR Hero]

also thats like saying a pinch hitter shouldn't be allowed to come in and hit a grand slam or something.

[ct2k]

I'm not saying a pitcher can't come in and get the save.

I'm saying an awful lot of attention is put on the number of saves a closer gets, not his era strikeout/walk ratio, hits/innings etc.

And yes a win CAN happen that way, but generally it doesn't come down to a pitcher throwing to one guy only and getting it.

[ct2k]

also thats like saying a pinch hitter shouldn't be allowed to come in and hit a grand slam or something.

This is the most ridiculous thing you've ever posted.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

No, 1 save is not a big deal you're right.

But when someone can come in 40 or so times in a season and close out games then it is important. The reason the save category is looked at so highly is because a team needs someone that they can trust to give the ball to night in and night out and be confident that 45 out of 50 times that person is not going to let them down.

Plus that is a lot of wear and tear on that guys arm to have to warmup in the pen 3 or 4 times a week and then have to go in and throw as hard as you possibly can.

[YOUR Hero]

This is the most ridiculous thing you've ever posted.
Why?

It's called an analogy.

You claim a stat, "the save", isn't as important as it should be. Since it can be achieved so easily. In fact it was you that used the one batter senerio. Hell it could be one pitch, in fact a save could be had without even throwing a pitch to a batter.

I'm saying (of course far fetched) that someone could stretch those lines of thought and claim that a HR isn't a very important stat (or grand slam) because it can be achieved just as easily. One plate appearance, one swing, one pitch.



Supreme did a good job of rationalizing it.

[ct2k]

Why?

It's called an analogy.

You claim a stat, "the save", isn't as important as it should be. Since it can be achieved so easily. In fact it was you that used the one batter senerio. Hell it could be one pitch, in fact a save could be had without even throwing a pitch to a batter.

I'm saying (of course far fetched) that someone could stretch those lines of thought and claim that a HR isn't a very important stat (or grand slam) because it can be achieved just as easily. One plate appearance, one swing, one pitch.



Supreme did a good job of rationalizing it.


You can hit 4 homers in a game.

A team can hit 9 homers in a row if they try hard enough and get the right pitches.

A home run is a completely different stat to a Save, completely different.

I said, i don't think so much should be placed on the Save rule sometimes because it doesn't tell the whole story about how good a pitcher is. NOT a pitcher shouldn't be able to close out the game because its too easy, or a pinch hitter shouldn't be able to win a game with a grand slam, you twist words like a woman.

Also, if a closer goes in and converts 40 of 45 saves but gives up 1 or 2 runs everytime is he that great?

I mean is Kenny Rogers one of the top pitchers this year because he's gonna finish with atleast 16 + wins? Hell no!

[YOUR Hero]

OK first of off, Billy Koch was getting 35-45 saves a year but was giving up 2-3 runs a game. Where is he now? That's right,m guys like him get replaced fast. 100+mph fastball but it does him no good.

Kenny Rogers was "lights out" in the first half of the season, since the all star break he's predictably gotten worse.

...

A pitcher might also pick up a save by pitching 3 innings, face 9+ batters.

[ct2k]

Yes they might.

To get a win the starting pitcher has got to toss a minimum of 5 innings and leave with the lead.

To get a save a pitcher basically needs to finish the game off to be credited with 'saving' the lead if it is 3 runs or less.

Meh, just don't seem like a particularly telling statistic to me thats all.

In reference to the Nathan one batter, one out, save. Why did the guy who got the first 2 outs not get the save? In reality he did more to 'save' the game than Nathan did

[The Outlaw]

That's right,m guys like him get replaced fast. 100+mph fastball but it does him no good.


John Rocker. :wavesad:

Of course, I think half of the reason he ended up so poorly was all the attention he got from what he said. Just my opinion though.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Rocker kind of reminded me of John Wetteland when he pitched. He was shaky at times but boy did he have a fastball

I wont be suprised when he signs on to another team because he can probably still throw and he'll only be 30 next year

[Head]

The save rule is all good, I think it says more than wins or losses. With that you can pitch a great game, and just get no run support, and get a no decision, or loss if you give up a single run.

With a save, it's all up to the pitcher, run support is out of the picture.

The only thing I'm not to fond about with saves is the fact that is a pitcher enters with a lead greater than 3 runs, and widdles it down to 3 runs or less, then closes it, they still get the save.

[The Outlaw]

Rocker kind of reminded me of John Wetteland when he pitched. He was shaky at times but boy did he have a fastball

I wont be suprised when he signs on to another team because he can probably still throw and he'll only be 30 next year
He didn't become so herky jerky untill all the attention was on him.

Before the comments, he was still a pumped up guy who SPRINTED to the mound, but I mean, he just went crazy after the comments.

[ct2k]

Indeed. 99 he was pretty awesome for the Braves, and the way he sprinted out got the fans going too, which in the never quite full despite the teams awesome success-Turner field is always a good thing