Moonax

[BCWWF]

I know you aren't around much anymore, but I'm just wondering your opinion on this...

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1885736

Its not Lance Armstrong.

[Ogen]

I'd give an opinion but it seems this thread is for Moonax only.

[BCWWF]

Nobodys stopping you

[Ogen]

Nah but seriously cycling just seems to be choc a bloc fulll of drug cheats allthough if I'm understanding the article properly he seems to have taken someone elses blood have I got that right? Anyone could provide linkage on how that works would be most appreciated, other than that theres not much anyone can say about this stuff until the B test comes back in really.

[Moonax]

I think that hamilton is simply the first of many to be caught in this way. They have obviously just developed this test, (I am guessing that it is also linked to the test of HGH that Pound was talking about that the weekend).

as I have said, cycling is a needle sport.

can you read Spanish?

Jesús Manzano a spanish cyclist has written extensively about his own use of Blood doping.

[BCWWF]

Can't read spanish...but you're predicting a new line of catchings? I'm not trying to be a prick, I am just legitimately asking your opinion since you seem to be the most knowledgeable on the sport in the forums.

[Moonax]

As the tests for TGH caught out a lot of people then so it will be with this test.

I'm pretty sure that people have moved from EPO to blood doping, it is of course still possible to use EPO since the only way you can test for it is if your red blood cell count is over a certain percentage. A failed test doesn't get you banned for dopping but merely stood down for a number of days because you can't actually prove that it isn't a natural phenomenon. (The Colombians for example all have higher red blood cell counts because of the altitude in which they live and so the threshold has caused problems).

But lets be honest, a cyclist like Armstrong will know all most everything about the physiology and so they will know prior to taking EPO what their blood cell count is and they will take enough EPO to ensure that they get the benefits without crossing the threshold and thus failing any test.

[Moonax]

I see that Ulrich pulled out of the world championships citing a 'stomach virus'. Draw your own conclusions.

Armstrong again hasn't raced since the Tour. He missed the Olympics, the Vuelta, the Giro and the World Championships this year. Again, this is why I get annoyed when people proclaim him to be the best cyclist in the world, it is just ignorant really. It's like a golfer winning the US PGA and claiming to be the worlds best golfer but never playing in any of the other majors.

[BCWWF]

Cycling comes in so many different genre's, so yes the people who say he is the best at cycling are ignorant. I do believe that he is the best in the Tour de France format, and its hard to dispute that unless you accuse him of doping, but you could accuse anybody of doping on pretty much the same charges. But yeah, not many Americans know their share about cycling.

[Moonax]

If Armstrong was someone who raced a full season and dominated all the tours, the world championships or the one day races then I could accept some of the hagiography.

Note that Ferrari was convicted of supplying illegal drugs.

Agreed about the drugs. Doping though is rife in every sport and I think we kid ourselves if we think that athletes are clean.

Look at the size and speed of football players today and contrast them with the size of players from 25 years ago. Are you really telling me that it is all down to good genes and better diet?

The reality is that whenever you get to a certain level in sport you have to take drugs simply to stay in the pack.

[BCWWF]

Hamilton was dropped from his team, Phonak I think, today. Any opinions?

[Moonax]

He's a fall guy. The same as everyone who gets busted. Whether its David Miller, Cedric Vasseur or Hamilton.

Look at some of notes from Michelle Collins's case.

"Among the documents reviewed in the arbitration were e-mails Collins sent to BALCO owner Victor Conte, including one in which she asked whether she could use a testosterone gel with a cream she already had.

"Do not use the testosterone gel," Conte responded. "It will cause a positive result by elevating the (testosterone/epitestosterone) ratio. ... You are already getting what you need from the cream, which will not elevate the ratio and you know why."

The arbitrators' ruling said Collins did not contest the authenticity of the messages, but her attorney argued in the appeal that there was no evidence to prove she had sent them.

Collins' attorney, Brian Getz, was in court Friday and did not immediately return a message left at his office.

The arbitrators said while USADA did not test for EPO in 2003, Collins submitted to blood testing by independent laboratories through BALCO -- and those tests showed elevated levels of red blood cells in early February 2003, a month before the world indoor championships.

Dr. Michael Sawka, who analyzed the blood tests, said he had not seen such high levels -- even in Army soldiers in a doping experiment following rigorous high-altitude exercise, which would be expected to raise red blood cell levels."

Do you not think that someone like Armstrong would be getting the same level of advice? It is pretty clear that if you have enough money and the right support network you can avoid drug.