KayfabeMan
09-23-2004, 08:59 PM
I was reading through the Big Vito Rate The Wrestler Thread, and saw a post by "BigDaddyCool" that was in reference to Big Vito. Post in question read:
"3, the guy was, and is a nobody. He was just some jobber with a
mafia gimmick. I still don't understand how guy like Big Vito are
getting 7.8 or even 9 when dudes like Nash and Jeff Jarrett you
know guys that will be remebered, and have done something get
an overall rating in the 60's 70's."
If I may....
A) With this logic, you're saying anyone who hasn't won a World Title or main evented a PPV / hogged TV time is not worthy of even being in the ring with or mentioned in the same sentence as guys who have. With that - guys like Dean Malenko or Ron Killings should never be considered A+ talents, because in 20 years, no one will remember them.
It also shits on guys like Johnny Rodz, Jerry Grey, Rusty Brooks, and others who are all great talents in their own right - and made the "big guys" look like a million bucks. Just because you have 'accomplishments' in an entertainment field that doesn't make you any better than the guys who have never been a main draw.
B) Nash and Jeff Jarrett may well wind up like most of wrestling's history - forgotten. Former workers like Maurice Tillet, Bobby Shane, Billy Watson and others are forgotten - while others like Rhodes, Race, Flair and Funk eat up the spotlight - due to thinking like yours.
Most guys fade right out of the business without so much as a whisper of their leaving. They don't even get the shitty gold watch. Things go from A+ to F in a short time, and they get forgotten about because logic like that.
It also makes no sense because often (through politics or otherwise) the guys who are mid/low card are better than the guys who are main eventing the same shows - and sometimes they're bigger draws.
Now, this is just my opinion, but here's an article from PWBTS.com that is very well written, and is just another man's opinion - one that I respect.
The Unknown Worker (by Kevin Malton)
The unknown worker.
You might call me bitter, and think that I am very much so at the end of my story but I can honestly say that I don't regret a single thing. Life is what you make it.
I started my career in the late 1980's. A close relative of mine was a very famous worker and after excelling in amateur wrestling at high school, it seemed like a natural progression for me to train to be a professional wrestler. I was trained by one of the most respected workers of his generation and it was an ardous and gruelling process. Straight out of wrestling school and I was introduced to my first territory. Over the first five years of my career, whilst I was still "green", I wrestled in Smokey Mountain Wrestling learning my craft with other guys like Steve Austin, Chris Jericho and Lance Storm to name a few. The dirtsheets at the time were full of praise for all of us, with each of us being tipped for great things. To be honest I never really made good friends with either of those guys; not to say we didn't get along, we just never socialized away from shows. I spent the early part of my career in the independents, learning, watching and slowly building up a reputation for myself as a trustworthy and competent worker. It was in 1999, after almost ten years of low pay offs, long journeys and many bumps and bruises, that I made it to the dance. I was offered a position with Ted Turner's World Championship Wrestling.
During talks with the head booker at the time, it was decided that I would use the gimmick that I had been using in the indies. The same day of my debut, and a veteran, who I admire greatly and still do despite our differences, complained to management about my gimmick. As this guy had a lot of stroke with the company and was well respected, it was decided that I would be re-packaged with another gimmick and an incoming girl friend of his would have a character based on mine. I was very upset about this as you can imagine. Not only was a great worker, that I respected greatly, being a dick to me, my now deceased relative's gimmick was not being carried on in the tradition that it should have been. I had made that character my own (as much as was possible) during my tenure in the indies and it was what my fan base, whilst modest, wanted to see me doing. Being the new guy and feeling very grateful to be earning a guarenteed salary and getting TV time, I didn't day a word. I was re-packaged with an awful gimmick.
Looking back, I can see now that the booker at the time was jealous of my relatives success. I do not understand the mentality, but as my pay check wasn't coming out of his personal pocket, I was booked to look stupid with this new gimmick. I decided to try and turn a negative into a positive. I never complained and knuckled down. I hated my gimmick so much, from my entrance music to the stupid flowing blonde locks I had to grow. Then I had an idea. I suggested that I needed a valet, and as a certain female had just been buried after leaving WWF for WCW (again, the WCW mentality), management decided it would be fine if I used her. It started slowly at first. A string of good matches on TV. I worked hard at house shows and always tried to make sure I had the best, or if not the second best, match on the card. A few signs started popping up for me at shows. I was given maybe two promo spots a month and I made the most of them. I cut amazing promos. I was showing the office what I had and that I couldn't be ignored. Of course, I was. I was feuding with a comedy character on PPV, and whilst I have respect for this guy and overall he is a nice guy, he was seen by fans as a curtain jerker. If I won the feud then it wasn't much of an elevation if any. If I lost the feud that would be the nail in my coffin. Of course I lost the feud and my partner in the feud went on to do nothing. Nothing was gained at all from our feud and our blowoff PPV match was nothing but a vehicle to bring in a singer as a special guest to plug his new CD. Shortly afterwards my contract was up and low and behold I wasn't offered a new one.
Since leaving WCW i've worked for several indie promotions. At first, I was paid a large amount of money to work, and they would put their title on me. I was a fairly well known worker and back then I was a big deal on the indy scene. During this time I attended a WWF event, as invited by one of my buddies who had since moved from WCW to WWF. I saw this as an opportunity to get my face seen and perhaps talk to some of the road agents or other officials. I was there for thirty minutes before a certain announcer, who has since been released by WWE, said to someone else "what's that loser doing here?" I promptly left, feeling humiliated and above all disrespected. I knew my WCW character was pretty much a laughing stock but surely people could see through that? That it was just a gimmick? That i'm not like that in real life? That I was booked to look stupid? It was at this point that I decided to drop using the gimmick that WCW gave me (and kindly let me keep after I left). I re-packaged myself as a new character. I hit the gym, really hard, and I now have a very good physique. I changed my hair and clothes. Soon after, whether it was due to my character change or because I had not been on TV for a while and fans were forgetting who I was I don't know, I was forced to drop my price for appearing at indie shows. My top whack price was $500 and promotors were no longer prepared to pay that much for me. At the moment I am lucky if I get $120 a show.
My problem I think, is that I am too nice for this business. I kept my mouth shut in WCW and let them ruin my character. I didn't give any verbal back to that announcer that bad mouthed me in front of my peers. I've never, ever refused to job to someone at an indy show, no matter how little I was paid or who they were (and believe me, there are a lot of dick heads around). I answer all fan mail, the little of it there is, and I take time to be polite to all fans at signings. I've even given up my Monday nights to go and watch RAW with a fan and her family on TV at their home. Why? Because i'm a nice guy like that and that I know she needs happiness in her life. She's been through a lot during her short years and if I can put a smile on her face I will do it.
At the end of all this, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. I am happy on the inside. I've had a taste of pro wrestling at the top. I've partied with Ric Flair. I've had Chris Benoit ask me how I did a certain move and get me to teach him it. I've had Eddie Guerrero and Benoit put me over to the other boys in the back. I've been on PPV and Nitro. I've wrestled Rob Van Dam, Steve Austin and Chris Jericho throughout my career albeit a long time ago.
Who am I?
I'm the guy you ridicule in a chat room.
I'm the subject of a "where are they now?" thread on a message board.
I'm an answer to a trivia question.
I'm a never was.
See you in the indies.
"3, the guy was, and is a nobody. He was just some jobber with a
mafia gimmick. I still don't understand how guy like Big Vito are
getting 7.8 or even 9 when dudes like Nash and Jeff Jarrett you
know guys that will be remebered, and have done something get
an overall rating in the 60's 70's."
If I may....
A) With this logic, you're saying anyone who hasn't won a World Title or main evented a PPV / hogged TV time is not worthy of even being in the ring with or mentioned in the same sentence as guys who have. With that - guys like Dean Malenko or Ron Killings should never be considered A+ talents, because in 20 years, no one will remember them.
It also shits on guys like Johnny Rodz, Jerry Grey, Rusty Brooks, and others who are all great talents in their own right - and made the "big guys" look like a million bucks. Just because you have 'accomplishments' in an entertainment field that doesn't make you any better than the guys who have never been a main draw.
B) Nash and Jeff Jarrett may well wind up like most of wrestling's history - forgotten. Former workers like Maurice Tillet, Bobby Shane, Billy Watson and others are forgotten - while others like Rhodes, Race, Flair and Funk eat up the spotlight - due to thinking like yours.
Most guys fade right out of the business without so much as a whisper of their leaving. They don't even get the shitty gold watch. Things go from A+ to F in a short time, and they get forgotten about because logic like that.
It also makes no sense because often (through politics or otherwise) the guys who are mid/low card are better than the guys who are main eventing the same shows - and sometimes they're bigger draws.
Now, this is just my opinion, but here's an article from PWBTS.com that is very well written, and is just another man's opinion - one that I respect.
The Unknown Worker (by Kevin Malton)
The unknown worker.
You might call me bitter, and think that I am very much so at the end of my story but I can honestly say that I don't regret a single thing. Life is what you make it.
I started my career in the late 1980's. A close relative of mine was a very famous worker and after excelling in amateur wrestling at high school, it seemed like a natural progression for me to train to be a professional wrestler. I was trained by one of the most respected workers of his generation and it was an ardous and gruelling process. Straight out of wrestling school and I was introduced to my first territory. Over the first five years of my career, whilst I was still "green", I wrestled in Smokey Mountain Wrestling learning my craft with other guys like Steve Austin, Chris Jericho and Lance Storm to name a few. The dirtsheets at the time were full of praise for all of us, with each of us being tipped for great things. To be honest I never really made good friends with either of those guys; not to say we didn't get along, we just never socialized away from shows. I spent the early part of my career in the independents, learning, watching and slowly building up a reputation for myself as a trustworthy and competent worker. It was in 1999, after almost ten years of low pay offs, long journeys and many bumps and bruises, that I made it to the dance. I was offered a position with Ted Turner's World Championship Wrestling.
During talks with the head booker at the time, it was decided that I would use the gimmick that I had been using in the indies. The same day of my debut, and a veteran, who I admire greatly and still do despite our differences, complained to management about my gimmick. As this guy had a lot of stroke with the company and was well respected, it was decided that I would be re-packaged with another gimmick and an incoming girl friend of his would have a character based on mine. I was very upset about this as you can imagine. Not only was a great worker, that I respected greatly, being a dick to me, my now deceased relative's gimmick was not being carried on in the tradition that it should have been. I had made that character my own (as much as was possible) during my tenure in the indies and it was what my fan base, whilst modest, wanted to see me doing. Being the new guy and feeling very grateful to be earning a guarenteed salary and getting TV time, I didn't day a word. I was re-packaged with an awful gimmick.
Looking back, I can see now that the booker at the time was jealous of my relatives success. I do not understand the mentality, but as my pay check wasn't coming out of his personal pocket, I was booked to look stupid with this new gimmick. I decided to try and turn a negative into a positive. I never complained and knuckled down. I hated my gimmick so much, from my entrance music to the stupid flowing blonde locks I had to grow. Then I had an idea. I suggested that I needed a valet, and as a certain female had just been buried after leaving WWF for WCW (again, the WCW mentality), management decided it would be fine if I used her. It started slowly at first. A string of good matches on TV. I worked hard at house shows and always tried to make sure I had the best, or if not the second best, match on the card. A few signs started popping up for me at shows. I was given maybe two promo spots a month and I made the most of them. I cut amazing promos. I was showing the office what I had and that I couldn't be ignored. Of course, I was. I was feuding with a comedy character on PPV, and whilst I have respect for this guy and overall he is a nice guy, he was seen by fans as a curtain jerker. If I won the feud then it wasn't much of an elevation if any. If I lost the feud that would be the nail in my coffin. Of course I lost the feud and my partner in the feud went on to do nothing. Nothing was gained at all from our feud and our blowoff PPV match was nothing but a vehicle to bring in a singer as a special guest to plug his new CD. Shortly afterwards my contract was up and low and behold I wasn't offered a new one.
Since leaving WCW i've worked for several indie promotions. At first, I was paid a large amount of money to work, and they would put their title on me. I was a fairly well known worker and back then I was a big deal on the indy scene. During this time I attended a WWF event, as invited by one of my buddies who had since moved from WCW to WWF. I saw this as an opportunity to get my face seen and perhaps talk to some of the road agents or other officials. I was there for thirty minutes before a certain announcer, who has since been released by WWE, said to someone else "what's that loser doing here?" I promptly left, feeling humiliated and above all disrespected. I knew my WCW character was pretty much a laughing stock but surely people could see through that? That it was just a gimmick? That i'm not like that in real life? That I was booked to look stupid? It was at this point that I decided to drop using the gimmick that WCW gave me (and kindly let me keep after I left). I re-packaged myself as a new character. I hit the gym, really hard, and I now have a very good physique. I changed my hair and clothes. Soon after, whether it was due to my character change or because I had not been on TV for a while and fans were forgetting who I was I don't know, I was forced to drop my price for appearing at indie shows. My top whack price was $500 and promotors were no longer prepared to pay that much for me. At the moment I am lucky if I get $120 a show.
My problem I think, is that I am too nice for this business. I kept my mouth shut in WCW and let them ruin my character. I didn't give any verbal back to that announcer that bad mouthed me in front of my peers. I've never, ever refused to job to someone at an indy show, no matter how little I was paid or who they were (and believe me, there are a lot of dick heads around). I answer all fan mail, the little of it there is, and I take time to be polite to all fans at signings. I've even given up my Monday nights to go and watch RAW with a fan and her family on TV at their home. Why? Because i'm a nice guy like that and that I know she needs happiness in her life. She's been through a lot during her short years and if I can put a smile on her face I will do it.
At the end of all this, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. I am happy on the inside. I've had a taste of pro wrestling at the top. I've partied with Ric Flair. I've had Chris Benoit ask me how I did a certain move and get me to teach him it. I've had Eddie Guerrero and Benoit put me over to the other boys in the back. I've been on PPV and Nitro. I've wrestled Rob Van Dam, Steve Austin and Chris Jericho throughout my career albeit a long time ago.
Who am I?
I'm the guy you ridicule in a chat room.
I'm the subject of a "where are they now?" thread on a message board.
I'm an answer to a trivia question.
I'm a never was.
See you in the indies.