Orton/HHH just might be able to work

[Innovator]

If Orton fights Flair at Taboo Tuesday, then is part of a Survivor Series match the next month, he could be out of HHH's face for two months right there.

Give him Batista in December, saying he has to win to make it in the Rumble, of course Orton wins. He goes on to win the Rumble, and theres the setup for Wrestlemania 21.

All of this time they could really build up Orton as a bonafide contender, giving the chance for him to win a couple high-profile matches. Hell I'd be willing to see Benoit job to Orton again if it helps solidify Orton.

Do you guys think the WWE will do this for pull the trigger...again?

[John la Rock]

I personally think they should have went the other direction. Turning HHH face and having Orton as the heel Champion and the leader of Evolution. Leading to Orton/HHH at Wrestlemania 21

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with the hell Orton method, and I think we may see it happen at Survivor Series, or maybe Taboo Tuesday. Evolution turns on Triple H, Orton gets his belt back, and Triple H chases until Mania 21. He doesn't win the Rumble, though.

[The CyNick]

Of course thats how its going to play out (orton going through Evo one by one). But the point is they refuse to book Orton as a strong babyface. Every week he's either being laid out or being outsmarted or running away like a rich Republican when a war breaks out.

If you listen to the crowds, the people dont seem to care about Orton like they should a top baby. Even when they were going through the list of guys to get a title shot at TT he didn't get the biggets reaction, I dont even think he got the 2nd biggest reaction. And having him look like a fool every week isn't going to get him over either.

They need to go back and watch how Austin used to run though the Hart Foundation or the Corporation or the Ministry to see how you book a top babyface. But they'll never do it, because Hunter loves being the dominant super tough heel, and wont be booked weak for more than a week before he has to get his heat back.

Thats why Orton isn't working as a babyface and wont work anytime soon.

[tucsonspeed6]

As much as I respect all of you, I have to say the only one in here who has spoken intelligently was Innovator.

John: Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) wants to see HHH in the title hunt. Then every Raw will practically have to revolve around him, and since we're talking about HHH here, that means that between the HHH filled segments and the comercial breaks, there'd probably be five minutes left in the show to fill with another contest. Nobody wins. Keep HHH a heel.

Alienoid: We the fans refused to acknowledge that Orton was a credible champion before, so if he wins the title back, the writers will book him as being a cheater and a pussy. We've all seen it before and none of us like remembering that part of Jericho's career, so unless you want WM21 to be over HHH's poor kitty who got ran over by the evil Evolution, I'd dedicate my nightly prayer towards the hungry children around the world instead.

CyNick: Not every babyface has to act like Goldberg to get over. There are plenty of ways to do it, and it just so happens that rooting for the underdog is one of them. You say he is always getting laid out. But he took on the entire group two weeks ago with a sledgehammer and embarrassed HHH by letting Eugene beat him. When you say that Orton runs away, I recall prior to every time Orton ran away he laid out a member of Evo with a chair. Guerilla tactics? Fuck yes it is, and that's outsmarting his opponents...something that you said was the other way around. And there isn't really any "outsmarting" going on on Evolutions part. They just run out to the ring and chase Orton around for a while. To me, they look like the Three Stooges trying to catch a mouse. And you make the point that Austin used to run through the Corporation and the ministry...but he didn't. He LOST the Royal Rumble to Vince McMahon. He got the crap beaten out of him constantly. I think they're playing Orton to be just like Austin (less the foul mouth and beer drinking). He's facing unstoppable odds and he's gonna come out on top. But I can't tell you what good booking is. You have to figure that out for yourself. If you want to watch Goldberg day in and day out, watch him. I'll take Orton.

[The CyNick]

Bro, show me an example of a top level babyface that got over by running and being logical.

Comparing Orton to Austin is absurd. If you can, go back and watch some old tapes of Austin circa 1997, and then tell me Orton is being booked the same way. It was the rare occasion that Vince (or Bret before him) and co got to lay out Austin as RAW ended. More often than not, Austin would get beatdown early in the show, the HEELS would run, and then at the end of the show they would eat a bunch of Stunners and the HEELS would bail out while Austin stood in the ring victorious drinking beer. With Orton, every 2nd week the show ends with Evo standing over a destroyed Randy Orton.

If this was Mick Foley who was getting beat up all the time, I would say its smart booking because fans are sympathetic towards Foley. But very few people care about Randy to the point that you can have him laid out week in and week and keep him strong. And why would people care about a babyface who not much more than a month ago was talking about how worthless all the fans were?

Fans, especially ones who grew up watching the WWE are used to cheering for the superman babyface. Hogan, Rock, Taker, and Austing all got over by playing the superman babyface. The only top level guys in modern WWE history who got over without doing that are Foley which I already covered and then Bret and HBK. But with Bret and HBK they were so phenomenal in the ring, that they could get themselves over in the ring regardless of what happened outside the match. Orton is good, but he's nowhere near the level of in ring talent that a Bret Hart or HBK was.

Sure you can say there is logic to Randy using his head and running when the odds are against him, but thats just not going to get over. Ive used this example many times, but try to imagine a superhero type movie (ie Superman/Spiderman) and the title character spends most of the movie running away from a battle rather than beating the odds and over coming evil. Are people going to say "what a brilliant tactician, he's a genius, definately worthy of our respect". Or are they going to say "what a fu$%ing wuss"? Or what if the guy constantly got beat up? Would you go back for part 2,3 and 4 after seeing the title character get his ass handed to him, regardless of the odds? Again is he a "brilliant tactician" or a "fu#%ing wuss"?

Wrestling booking isn't rocket science, there are certain things that work, why they are trying to go against those things is beyond me. But the fact that they are going against these time tested tactics probably explains why you can hear a pin drop during a Randy Orton comeback.