HHH as a face and Orton as a heel?

[GODSON]

I remember reading on many websites 2 months ago that the plan for Mania is too have HHH as babyface vs. Orton as a heel. From the looks of things, this plan might happen. Orton shaking hands with Flair. I doubt Evolution is going to break up. I think after Survivor Series or maybe next week, Orton will become the leader of Evolution and HHH will take a little vacation and come back as a face. Isn't HHH/Steph anniversary coming up?

I remember when ROck turn face for a moment before SSeries 98 and ended up being a heel again. Orton might be going in the same direction.

[The CyNick]

The plan was/is to have HHH vs Orton at Mania. BUt it was going back and forth as to who would be the heel and who would be the face. Ultimately HHH wanted to stay heel because he prefers to work as a heel, and I think as a face there is more pressure to draw, which he knows he cant do.

Anyway, it seems like they would be stupid not to turn Flair at this point. But I never assume anything with the WWE. That will be a great move if they do it though. The problem is if they keep Orton as a face and he's hanging with Flair it really puts a huge dent in his Legend Killer gimmick. By the very nature of that gimmick, he sould dispise all "legends" and want to kill them. But if buddy buddy with Flair I guess he'll become the Legend Sympathizer Randy Orton, which hardly seems as cool.

So, they could do a double turn, Flair goes face, Randy goes heel again. But then what happens with Evo? Do they turn with Flair, do they go back with Orton (which would make no sense BTW).

Regardless, I do think they should turn Flair, and I also think he should program with Hunter for the title. If they do it right, I think they could get a bump in whatever PPV they put that match on.

[McLegend]

HHH is a horrible face. He is a much better Heel.

[Innovator]

NO NO NO

[Loose Cannon]

The plan was/is to have HHH vs Orton at Mania. BUt it was going back and forth as to who would be the heel and who would be the face. Ultimately HHH wanted to stay heel because he prefers to work as a heel, and I think as a face there is more pressure to draw, which he knows he cant do.

Anyway, it seems like they would be stupid not to turn Flair at this point. But I never assume anything with the WWE. That will be a great move if they do it though. The problem is if they keep Orton as a face and he's hanging with Flair it really puts a huge dent in his Legend Killer gimmick. By the very nature of that gimmick, he sould dispise all "legends" and want to kill them. But if buddy buddy with Flair I guess he'll become the Legend Sympathizer Randy Orton, which hardly seems as cool.

So, they could do a double turn, Flair goes face, Randy goes heel again. But then what happens with Evo? Do they turn with Flair, do they go back with Orton (which would make no sense BTW).

Regardless, I do think they should turn Flair, and I also think he should program with Hunter for the title. If they do it right, I think they could get a bump in whatever PPV they put that match on.


Here's how I would book it right now. Flair definately goes babyface.

Now, the fans love Flair, they sympathize with him, they pop for him, they love his passion he still has at his age. I would have Flair show Orton all the respect in the world right now. Flair apoligizes with everything he said about Orton, Flair says Orton is really the future of this business and maybe you can have Flair give something to Orton that holds value to Flair.

This goes on for a little while. Then Flair and HHH have a Title match. And Flair says this match will be his last match if he doesn't win the Title. Flair says he's done it all in this business and he wants to go out like a Champion.

HHH and Batista are still heels. HHH hates how Flair has been hanging around Orton, but he still comes to Flair before the match and tries to talk sense into him. He says that Flair shouldn't put his wrestling career on the line because he can still give so much more. Flair isn't having it, but HHH wishes him luck never the less.

The match is on and Orton lays out Flair with an RKO. BUT, HHH does not smile at this or applaud this in any way. He just looks at Orton and says "You son of a bitch, that's a god dam legend."

You know the crowd is going to boooo Orton for this and you know they want HHH to kill Orton at this point. Orton backs into the corner and then Batista comes up from behind and lays out HHH like the way it should have been done.

Now, there are a few problems with this. First, how do you convince the audience that Orton and Batista are buds again?

Second, can HHH get over as a babyface in that situation after basically destroying Orton 1 month ago?

The one key thing to this is you have to make the audience really really sympathetic to Flair, where they want to rip Orton's head off by costing him the match.

[Nowhere Man]

The problem is if they keep Orton as a face and he's hanging with Flair it really puts a huge dent in his Legend Killer gimmick. By the very nature of that gimmick, he sould dispise all "legends" and want to kill them. But if buddy buddy with Flair I guess he'll become the Legend Sympathizer Randy Orton, which hardly seems as cool.

Well, they've really taken the focus off of the Legend Killer gimmick since his face turn, since that was really a method for getting heel heat. Now that he's a face, it would seem unwise to have him gloating about how he beat beloved faces like HBK and Foley, since his face run has been shaky at best anyways.

Anyways, I highly doubt they'd turn Orton heel again any time soon; Raw is starved for main event faces now that Benoit's been de-pushed.

[Innovator]

Good plan LC, but getting the crowd to be sympathetic to HHH would be tough, considering he was beating a retard senseless 2 months ago.

[Innovator]

I really think Foley needs to come back, at least just a put Orton over on the mic

[Mr. JL]

^ I can see the WWE talking that literally...

Foley comes back cuts a promo saying Randy Orton is good on the mic. and leaves

[Mr. JL]

By the way, the WWE has really put themsleves in a sticky situation in regards to who will be the heel and who is the face, but it doesn't matter.

Orton will end up being the face regardless of what the WWE decides.

[The CyNick]

Well, they've really taken the focus off of the Legend Killer gimmick since his face turn, since that was really a method for getting heel heat. Now that he's a face, it would seem unwise to have him gloating about how he beat beloved faces like HBK and Foley, since his face run has been shaky at best anyways.

Anyways, I highly doubt they'd turn Orton heel again any time soon; Raw is starved for main event faces now that Benoit's been de-pushed.

I dont agree with that at all. During this whole program with Flair, JR was constantly saying "Orton is the Legend Killer, and Flair is a Legend".

As fara s faces go, if they were to turn Orton, they'd also turn HHH and Flair, so that would more than make up for Orton levaing the babyface ranks.

[The CyNick]

Here's how I would book it right now. Flair definately goes babyface.

Now, the fans love Flair, they sympathize with him, they pop for him, they love his passion he still has at his age. I would have Flair show Orton all the respect in the world right now. Flair apoligizes with everything he said about Orton, Flair says Orton is really the future of this business and maybe you can have Flair give something to Orton that holds value to Flair.

This goes on for a little while. Then Flair and HHH have a Title match. And Flair says this match will be his last match if he doesn't win the Title. Flair says he's done it all in this business and he wants to go out like a Champion.

HHH and Batista are still heels. HHH hates how Flair has been hanging around Orton, but he still comes to Flair before the match and tries to talk sense into him. He says that Flair shouldn't put his wrestling career on the line because he can still give so much more. Flair isn't having it, but HHH wishes him luck never the less.

The match is on and Orton lays out Flair with an RKO. BUT, HHH does not smile at this or applaud this in any way. He just looks at Orton and says "You son of a bitch, that's a god dam legend."

You know the crowd is going to boooo Orton for this and you know they want HHH to kill Orton at this point. Orton backs into the corner and then Batista comes up from behind and lays out HHH like the way it should have been done.

Now, there are a few problems with this. First, how do you convince the audience that Orton and Batista are buds again?

Second, can HHH get over as a babyface in that situation after basically destroying Orton 1 month ago?

The one key thing to this is you have to make the audience really really sympathetic to Flair, where they want to rip Orton's head off by costing him the match.

Its funny, when I was watching the Cage match I was thinking they should do a double turn. I mean the fans were basically doing it anyway, you could tell the crowd was more firmly behind Flair than Orton.

Much as I figured, that match exposed how not over Orton is as a face.

I like the idea of Orton and Batista getting back together. It would be a stretch given the fact that Batista was part of the beating on Orotn, but so was Flair, and Orton was up his ass all month, so.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I would love to see Orton as RAW's top heel. I don't think Triple H makes the good sympathetic babyface, but I can certainly see him getting pops for a bloodthristy revenge angle.

OK, on RAW have Ric Flair, Triple H & Batista come out as usual. Have Triple H cut a promo about how Shawn Michaels is injured, Benoit & Edge are tied down with the World Tag Team Championship, Orton has proved he is nothing...

Ric Flair takes the mic off Triple H with his psychotic look on his face, and basically puts over Orton saying he won the Cage Match, fair and square. Flair then officially hands over the title of "The Man" to Randy Orton. Batista shows off his newly obtained promo skills, and tells Flair that he was distracted by the steel chair thrown into the ring. Flair could've beaten Orton otherwise. Flair then points out how Batista is the undisputed future of the business, but Orton is the now, and Triple H & Batista needs to realise that. Batista is great, but he's not a legend yet, and the things that seperate legends and greatness are 1) legends don't make excuses and 2) whose Ric Flair or Randy Orton, and who's not. Triple H says he is the now, and Flair comes out every week and agrees with that...

Flair cuts him off and says that both Triple H & Orton are the current offspring of Evolution, and Triple H should give Orton a fair chance for the World Heavyweight Championship. Anyway have Edge come out and go completely psychotic, claiming the World Tag Team Championship is beneath him, and basically cleaning house on Evolution before they can finish their little arguement. Edge then goes backstage and Eric Bischoff tells him he's suspended, and Edge says he quits because these fans don't know jack about how much pain Edge puts himself through everyday. Edge then Spears Eric and goes off into the sunset. Bischoff is seen after the commercial break on his cellphone with Edge. Bischoff offers him a deal he won't find on Teddy Long's SmackDown!. If Edge returns to RAW, Eric Bischoff wil give him a 24/7 deal on the World Heavyweight Championship. As long as there is a referee present, Edge can pin the World Heavyweight Champion anytime, anywhere.

Anyway, Randy Orton has his little respect segments with Ric Flair, and his interviews, etc. Finally Eric Bischoff makes a match for Survivor Series. Triple H vs. Randy Orton with all Evolution members barred from ringside, under penalty that if Evolution appears, Triple H loses the World Heavyweight Championship. Triple H talks about how he knows he can take Orton, and he's going to do this to prove to Flair Orton got lucky, and he's certainly not a legend, even if he is a legend killer. A few times Triple H is out in the ring, Edge's music plays, but it's just a video hyping how he's coming for what's his. This seems to get under the skin of Triple H, whose limo is vandalised with "You Think You Know Me?" written all over it. Finally we see Triple H vs. Randy Orton, and the match is about to go in Triple H's favour as the commentators highlight the fact that Triple H is doing this for Ric Flair, his idol, and for Batista, his prodigy. They tell us Orton is practically eliminated from the division if he loses here tonight. Finally we see Ric Flair & Batista come out to ringside, and the ref rings the bell, and disqualifies Triple H immediately. Flair and Batista get cocky smiles on their faces and they jump in the ring and attack Triple H. The three "injure" Triple H.

Orton shows up on RAW with Evolution, and tells us that Ric Flair and Batista were sick of burning in my light, and finally came to their senses, and realised that Triple H is nothing without Evolution. Randy Orton won the World Heavyweight Championship without Evolution's help, and he has never put his career in the hand of anyone but himself. Now Ric Flair & Batista have come to put their careers in my hands, and join a new Evolution, based around today. Today Randy Orton is World Hevayweight Champion. Today Batista is the future. Today Ric Flair is a legend. Today Randy Orton is a legend killer. Today Randy Orton is The Game. Today Randy Orton is The Man. Today Randy Orton is the Cerebrial Assassin. Today Batista the The Leviathan. Today Ric Flair is The Nature Boy. Today we are Evolution.

Evolution leaves the ring content with themselves, but then a video pops on, like it did for Triple H, hyping Edge's re-debut, but this itme it is directed at Orton. Anyway Orton wins at New Year's Revolution via DQ, as Triple H returns and destroys both Edge & Orton with a sledgehammer. Triple H then loses at the Rumble, due to interference by Orton, Ric Flair & Batista. Triple H then manages ot get inside the head of Orton, and makes him want to face Triple H at WrestleMania 21. You can then have either guy look like they are going to win. Orton is the heel champion doing so well, that can drop the title to Triple H just as easily at Backlash, and Triple H is the guy on fire, that could believeably win the title and send the fans home happy.

There are betetr ways ot book it, but I'm in a hurry, and that's practically the outline I would use. Orton wins over Flair, Flair manipulates Batista, who he was the manager of before Dave-O joined Triple H, forming Evolution. Both Flair & Batista put everything they have into making Orton's reign a success, but things turn bad when two bloodthirsty challengers (re)emerge and challenge Orton's supremacy.

[Loose Cannon]

I didn't read all of that, but Flair is GETTING CHEERED MORE THEN ORTON. You have to turn Flair babyface. Makes no sense for Orton and Flair to be freinds again, if you're turning Orton.

Flair being babyface is the KEY to Orton turning heel again and HHH turning face. I don't see any other way it would work.

[Gerard]

Flair gets cheered nomatter what he does really, i think noone can really take him seriously as a heel because of all the comedy in his matches, oldman flop, poke in the eyes, toss from tope rope etc. Flairs probably the mian reason i watch wwe, bit of old school plus his matches are usually hilarious because of the aforementioned match moments.

[Vastardikai]

Then again, wasn't it about 15-20 years ago in a Steel Cage where the fans turned on Face Champion Ronnie Garvin in his match against Heel Challenger Ric Flair? It was a Starcade, IIRC.

[Loose Cannon]

yes

[Innovator]

Orton won't turn heel and HHH won't turn face. With all of the criticism the WWE has been getting with their hot shotting angles lately, there is no way they'll pull the plug of Orton's face run so soon. Give it another month or so and we'll see where Ortons at.