DISCUSSION: Will Evolution break up by the end of the month? (other thoughts)

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION: Will Evolution break up by the end of the month? (other thoughts)


First off.....


FINALLY......................HEYMAN..................HAS COME *BACK* TO TEE....PEE....DUBYA!!!!! :O :cool:


It's been about 3 months since I've posted, and so now would be a great time to work off the ol' keyboard rust. I've got a lot to say.



A) Does anyone see Evolution permanently breaking up at the end of this month (or atleast the seeds being planted for a break-up?). I'm guessing that with Orton in charge, he'll "strategically" book Triple H against Batista (since Orton can't contractually get a title shot). You know what would be cool? (atleast in my opinion). During the Triple H/Batista match, Ric Flair helps out Triple H and helps Triple H retain (which leads to the end of Batista's association in Evolution).

A few weeks later, Triple H SHOCKS the world......by bringing back X-Pac and Road Dogg to the WWE (to reform DX). That's not all however. Because Flair was never a part of "DX", Triple H, X-Pac, and RD unexpectedly turn against Flair and kick him out.

I'm a DX mark, and I *DO* want to see this. This is not open for debate! (smile).



B) As I said 3 months ago, turning Randy Orton face was a DUMB idea. What the WWE should have done was turn Triple H face, while keeping Orton as a heel. Orton was getting GREAT reactions as a heel. The ridiculous thing about Orton's turn, was on the night that he turned face, he cut arguably one of the best heel promos in recent memory.

The WWE has to realize that just because a heel starts getting mixed reactions, doesn't mean that they should turn a guy face. In many instances, fans CHEER a HEEL character because they APPRECIATE the character so damned much. HBK in DX, Corporate Rock, Hollywood Rock, alliance Austin, Angle, and McMahon-Helmsley faction Triple H, are all great examples of this.

But oh well.

C) I like Gene Snitsky's character. I'm also happy that he went CLEANLY over Kane. With that being said, I REALLY hope that the WWE does NOT bring Kane back to get a return victory over Snitksy (unless they have serious intentions of pushing Kane as a main-eventer.....which I highly doubt). What's the point of killing Snitsky's momentum, on a guy who's hit the wall? Personally - I wouldn't mind seeing Glen Jacobs get released.


D) Classless and gutless move on the WWE's part to get rid of Test (while still recouperating from injury).

E) I love Simon Dean's character.

F) This "Arabic" character that is about to debut (Hussain) - the WWE need to be careful about this obviously. Furthermore - I think it would be better if he was a part of Smackdown. Not only would he get more TV time on Smackdown (since they have way less "established" stars), but his gimmick may fit better there as well.

JBL talks about "politics" the most out of any WWE superstar. Once JBL turns face (after his title reign ends?), he could have feuded with Hussain. AMERICAN HERO Kurt Angle is also on Smackdown.......not to mention that other ANTI AMERICAN wrestlers such as Kenzo Suzuki and Renee Dupree are on the show as well.



Annnyways - that's all for now. Good to be back posting again. :y: :cool:

[Funky Fly]

Welcome back. All I have to ay is that DX is as dead as Viscera is fat.

[Heyman]

You know what would be cool IMO?

If Orton would the RR, but then defected to Smackdown (just as Benoit had done 1 year earlier to RAW). The reasoning behind this, would be because Orton can't get a title shot against Triple H.


1) Orton on Smackdown gives Smackdown another "big name" (and makes up for the loss of Benoit).

2) If Orton goes to Smackdown and challenges for the WWE title, a guy like Benjamin can "step up" and challenge for the World title on RAW.

3) Angle and Taker are legends that haven't been "killed" yet. :p

4) If Orton goes to Smackdown as a top face, perhaps a REAL rivalry can develop between Cena and Orton (Cena gets jealous of Orton and turns heel?).

[Heyman]

Welcome back. All I have to ay is that DX is as dead as Viscera is fat.


Hey now!

Don't be dissing my boy Viscera. :mad:

DX is dead, but a man can dream.... :-\


p.s. Can't wait for X-Pac and Chyna's sex tape to come out. :rofl:

[Bad Company]

That tape is gonna get me so hot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Welcome back again, Heyman. I think we'll either see the strengthening up, or the complete desctruction of Evolution as we know it in the next month or so. Maybe even as early as next week. But here is the way I'd like it to happen.

Next week we see Jericho as GM, and we see a bit happening, mostly filler stuff, but with a feud between Benoit and Jericho developing, with Jericho coming so close to beating Triple H in a Submission Match, only for Benoit to come out, slap the Crossface on him, which allows Triple H to retain. Benoit & Triple H then have a match, with Benoit being smart and not only barring Evolution from ringside, but barring Y2J as well. Anyway a "Los Conquistador" type character runs down and costs Benoit the title, and we all THINK we know who it is.

Anyway, that all means nothing as we head into Randy Orton's week, and we see Triple H vs. Batista signed. Batista says he's going to do what's right for Evolution. In the match we see Batista start fighting back against Triple H as Ric Flair is shocked! Flair goes psychotic as he sees Evolution crumbling before his eyes. Batista works over Triple H for the match, with the fans right into this. It's more of a squash than anything else, as Triple H holds back and tries to calm Dave'O down, and tries to walk out of this thing. Triple H eventually heads up the walkway with his title, as Flair retains his disgusted look, but that quickly changes to that Nature Boy-smile as he grabs and swings Triple H back to the ring who in shock lets go of his title, Batista hits all of his signature moves including the clothesline, spear (from OVW days), spinebuster and finally the Batista Bomb for the, 1-2-3. BATISTA IS THE NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!!!!!! Hey, nothing you can say...and here comes Orton in a business suit with a huge smile on his face throwing his arms around in his invisible sandwhich pose, as he heads down to te ring as Ric Flair and Dave smile. Batista then hands the title to Orton who holds it up in celebration. We then see a MASSIVE beatdown of Triple H, as Orton, Flair & Batista get all their shots in. Randy Orton then poses on the turnbuckles as we go off the air.

The next week we see the start of Orton's theme hits, but it changes into "Line in the Sand" as Orton says he's taking up Triple H's 30-minute promos about how he's the best from now on. But Orton tells us he isn't the best. He tells us how he isn't unstoppable. Evolution is unstoppable. Randy asks how Triple H can lay claim to putting food on the RAW superstars' table when he was only champ because of Ric Flair and Dave Batista's hard work. Orton then proceeds to inform us that Ric Flair will forever be a legend, Dave Batista will forever be a walking death sentence and a Leviathan, but Triple H was the one variable in Evolution. Nothing could change how good Orton was. Nothing could change evolution taking place and Orton rising to the top again. But one thing could change, and that was Triple H's self-professed stranglehold on Ric Flair, Batista, RAW and the World Heavyweight Championship. Orton then claims the stipulation of his loss to Ric Flair several weeks ago was that if Orton lost HE could not challenge for the World Heavyweight Championship, but that doesn't mean he can't sign someone to challenge for him. Batista forfeits the title to Orton, then Randy spits on the "Triple H Championship" to give it new life, and to create not only a professional, but a personal feud for Randy Orton & Batista headed into 2005 and WrestleMania 21, as well as a new stage for Evolution and a character rebirth for the Legend Killer, who kills the unkillable legend of Triple H.

[Heyman]

That tape is gonna get me so hot.

:lol:

Just trying to imagine Waltman and Chyna 'getting it on' in my head is f'cking ridiculous. :nono:


p.s. If X-Pac's penis is as small as I think it will be, then I think it will be days before I stop laughing. :D

[Loose Cannon]

Heyman :D


Yeah, I see Evolution breaking up soon. And Batista and Flair will turn face.

Actually your DX idea might not be that bad. But I would just go with HBK and X-pac as the two members. Maybe refrain from calling them DX. HHH says he always knew who had his back and you're looking at them, *points to HBK and X-Pac. Then they could possibly do a stable war, which I markout for.

And yes, Snitsky, Dean and Hussan all rule.

MERCI :D

[dalegendkilla]

Kane must never be released he is one of the coolest wrestlers ever. He should totally kill Snitsky. Also I can see Evolution breaking up. They've really gone downhill since Randy Orton left.

[Evolution]

Welcome back Heyman.

I think LC has the right idea for DX, as an official DX I dont think would get a decent enough reaction, maybe if they were just The Clique, that might work. Plus, the rumour mill would go into overdrive about Hall and Nash returns.

But yeah, I think Evolution will have split by the Rumble.

[Danny Electric]

I hope Evolution breaks up and I never have to see Ric Flair in the ring again, I like it more when he keeps his clothes on.

[Innovator]

it's gonna be a swerve and they'll add a new member

[V]

hey welcome back man, and unless evolution gets a new member real soon they probobly will be breaking up, it has been what? 2 years since they got together.. that is a real long time. I'm gonna miss the theme music though

[tucsonspeed6]

Expect them to stay together until WM21 or shortly before that. (The WM21 match may be something like a feud match between the ex-members. Either way, I expect somebody, probably HHH, to move to Smackdown after Wrestlemania.

[The CyNick]

Heyman! "Discussions!" Good to have you both back.

A) I dont really want to see DX come back. Especially not with Road Dogg, you really need to see TNA to see how horrible he looks now. It would be such a slap in the face to the guys who have been released if guys like Road Dogg or even X-Pac were given contracts.

As for Evo, yeah it looks like they are done. Since they seem so dead set against HHH as a face, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Evo remain, but have them go baby with Orotn Flair and Batista. HHH could then start up a rival group, maybe with HBK (although that would make them faces), so maybe something with say Edge, Maven and/or Snitski.

B) Preaching to the choir on the Orton issue. Ive been saying it since day one.

C) Snitski is getting a good push, but I really think he's a joke. He really has no talent, and I think people seem him as a comedy figure, not as a monster. Should Kane beat him when he comes back? It depends on how Snitski is getting over, if they really think they can push him (which I dont think they can) then Kane shouldn't win. But my gut says Kane should beat him when he comes back, and then put Kane in there with HHH for the title before Mania.

D) Agree totally.

E) I went from liking Dean's gimmick, to thinking it would fail in 3 months, to now thinking I wish it would end next week. Its beyond lame.

F) I like the Hassan thing, especially with his manager. Gimmick exposes the ignorance of the American audience, but thats nothing new. As for RAW or SD, the guys you would expect to defend America (Bradshaw and Angle) are both heels, so thats not going to work. It will be funny watching Benoit or Jericho working with Hassan and the fans chanting "U-S-A".

[Fignuts]

Batista turning face would be cool but it won't happen. WWE will change their mind last minute, and pass off the teasers like they never happened.

Vince: "What? No, Flair and Orton didn't embrace after their match! Flair tricked Orton into a hand shake, and applied a huge bearhug!.... :shifty:

[Savio]

Altough I had some problems problems with you when you were last here.

Unless maven joins Evolution is doomed.

[dalegendkilla]

Vince: "What? No, Flair and Orton didn't embrace after their match! Flair tricked Orton into a hand shake, and applied a huge bearhug!.....

I know, wierd wasn't it. You saying Vince changed his mind and Ric was originally gonna turn face?

[tucsonspeed6]

It will be funny watching Benoit or Jericho working with Hassan and the fans chanting "U-S-A".

Yet another point of Canadian ignorance. Hassan isn't anti-Canadian, so chanting "Can-a-da" won't piss him off. His only kryptonite will be the "U-S-A" chant. Silly Canadians....

[Volchok]

they could always chant... A...Rab....A...Rab...

[Mr. Nerfect]

Heyman! "Discussions!" Good to have you both back.

A) I dont really want to see DX come back. Especially not with Road Dogg, you really need to see TNA to see how horrible he looks now. It would be such a slap in the face to the guys who have been released if guys like Road Dogg or even X-Pac were given contracts.

As for Evo, yeah it looks like they are done. Since they seem so dead set against HHH as a face, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Evo remain, but have them go baby with Orotn Flair and Batista. HHH could then start up a rival group, maybe with HBK (although that would make them faces), so maybe something with say Edge, Maven and/or Snitski.

B) Preaching to the choir on the Orton issue. Ive been saying it since day one.

C) Snitski is getting a good push, but I really think he's a joke. He really has no talent, and I think people seem him as a comedy figure, not as a monster. Should Kane beat him when he comes back? It depends on how Snitski is getting over, if they really think they can push him (which I dont think they can) then Kane shouldn't win. But my gut says Kane should beat him when he comes back, and then put Kane in there with HHH for the title before Mania.

D) Agree totally.

E) I went from liking Dean's gimmick, to thinking it would fail in 3 months, to now thinking I wish it would end next week. Its beyond lame.

F) I like the Hassan thing, especially with his manager. Gimmick exposes the ignorance of the American audience, but thats nothing new. As for RAW or SD, the guys you would expect to defend America (Bradshaw and Angle) are both heels, so thats not going to work. It will be funny watching Benoit or Jericho working with Hassan and the fans chanting "U-S-A".

Technically Jericho is American. :shifty:

I think Snitsky will get over, as long as they let him show personality and not give him the void of humanity gimmick. For the last few days I've been having envisionments of a new era, and Snitsky has been a part of it. He doesn't play a mindless monster, but he does do the unthinkable and discards his compassion and any sense of decency. Snitsky is a mega-heel with huge face potential in my envisionment. Will it turn out that way? Who knows?

Anyway, I think Kane should come back depleteing himself of human emotion, maybe even "reburning" his face in acid. Kane should then do whatever. They gave Snitsky the biggest rub they could from Kane, they should leaveit at that.

Anyway, if they don't go with Evolution breaking up, I hope we do see Maven join Evolution down the line. Either him Shane Helms, Shelton Benjamin or Charlie Haas. Anyway, think of the subtle hints they've dropped as well as the obvious ones. Maven changing his attire to the coloured trunks, allowing him to fit the unofficial rule of Evolution, then Batista getting red trunks, which until Maven adapted green ones were the colour of Maven's trunks. Think about it.

Anyway, I really think Maven would be a credible member if we see RAW open this week with Maven in his lockerroom with a plasma TV in there with specially made DVD which starts with showing clips of Maven getting injured and Evolution standing tall over Maven who we see getting The Pedigree over and over again. Triple H then tells Maven that this TV, DVD Player, DVD and Xbox (gotta shill your spondors) is a gift to Maven, as a way to remind him what Evolution could have done for him if he had joined them. We see a Triple H promo talking about if Jericho, Benoit and Orton are really happy, and if Maven is happy now he's only got his three Hardcore Title wins (which Ric Flair mocks by making a title that looks like it as Triple H speaks), and his Tough Enough victory? Anyway eventually we see Maven turn heel in the chaos and beg Evolution to let him in. We then see Maven challenge for the IC Title at New Year's Revolution.

Shelton Benjamin, Shane Helms and Charlie Haas (complete with Miss Jackie) are just some ideas I had.

[Heyman]

Heyman! "Discussions!" Good to have you both back.

A) I dont really want to see DX come back. Especially not with Road Dogg, you really need to see TNA to see how horrible he looks now. It would be such a slap in the face to the guys who have been released if guys like Road Dogg or even X-Pac were given contracts.

I missed your rebutts as well. :cool: I'll see how much time I have to post full-time again. I've become a JOBBER (literally..........I'm not in college anymore and so I got a JOB ;)

As far as hiring Road Dogg goes (and reforming DX), I can see your stance on this. However - it's not like EVERYONE that the WWE has hired has been 100% deserving anyways. Nash in 2002? Sable? Having Shane McMahon wrestle and take up PPV time a few years ago? Bottom line, is that life is unfair.

In Road Dogg's case, the guy was a part of one of the greatest stables in modern era. The guy also has great mic skills and charisma.

If he and X-Pac were to come back, perhaps him and X-Pac could be a tag team (where X-Pac could do most of the work I guess).


I know that "DX" is an old (almost "ancient") idea (and that the company should always strive to move 'forwards' and not 'backwards'), but its pretty hard to ignore the fact that "DX" was a HUGE marketing tool for the WWE......and was insanely popular.

As for Evo, yeah it looks like they are done. Since they seem so dead set against HHH as a face, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Evo remain, but have them go baby with Orotn Flair and Batista. HHH could then start up a rival group, maybe with HBK (although that would make them faces), so maybe something with say Edge, Maven and/or Snitski.

That could work.......although it's not in Edge or Snitsky's "character" to really side with Triple H (since they've been made to look like they want Triple H's title as well).

The face Evolution idea does sound interesting though. Flair could definitely help Batista get over as a face. Batista vs. Snitsky could be decent from a marketing standpoint I guess (i.e. two big monsters going at it).


Personally however - I'd rather just see Batista go off on his own.

What I'm hoping to see, is that next week on RAW (haven't seen it this week), Orton books a "Batista vs. Triple H" title match.


Flair helps Triple H retain.

The next week on RAW, Benoit books himself in a match with Triple H. Batista (who acts like he has no beef with fellow Evolution members the whole night and hangs out with them), then leaves Triple H "out to dry" in his title match..........and Benoit becomes the champ on TV (finally - we'd see a title change on TV!).

B) Preaching to the choir on the Orton issue. Ive been saying it since day one.

Yeah........

It's not that Orton SUCKS as a face. I actually don't think he's all THAT bad (or as bad as I may have described earlier). I just don't think that he's a GREAT face........like he could have been.


Had the WWE simply not rushed his face turn..........and continued with the momentum of his heel run, then he would've eventually been a HUGE face.


The WWE made the EXACT same mistake with Brock Lesnar (ironically enough - almost 2 years earlier when they turned him face against Big Show).


The biggest problem I see with the WWE in dealing with these things, is that they turn wrestlers face too soon when if someone starts getting mixed reactions as heels.

Guys like Corporate Rock, alliance Austin, McMahon-Helmsley Triple H, DX HBK, Kurt Angle, and Hollywood Rock were awesome heels BECAUSE the fans LOVED to hate them.......not in spite of that.


Only when the fans are COMPLETELY 100% behind someone in terms of face reactions (i.e. like when the WWE turned Hogan at Wrestlemania 18), should the WWE 'turn' a wrestler IMO.






Yeah. To be honest however, I'm really starting to wonder if Kane has a purpose in the WWE now (ESPECIALLY if he turns face). Kane as a face sucks. For whatever reason, the WWE always books Kane to look incredibly weak and vulnerable as a face (to the point where "going over" Kane doesn't hold much merit).

Atleast as a heel, the fans can get behind the "underdog" face and pop for him if he gets a victory (like Matt Hardy).

Unless Kane gets a HUGE push as a face upon his return, I just don't think he serves much purpose in the WWE (unless he goes back to being heel).


[QUOTE]E) I went from liking Dean's gimmick, to thinking it would fail in 3 months, to now thinking I wish it would end next week. Its beyond lame.

I don't know if I agree. From a personal standpoint, I think its pretty funny......and it gets good crowd reactions. I've never seen Nova wrestle before but if he DOES have talent, then perhaps his gimmick can slowly evolve over time (like Angle's).

F) I like the Hassan thing, especially with his manager. Gimmick exposes the ignorance of the American audience, but thats nothing new.

Wholeheartedly agree with that statement.


The problem however, is that this type of gimmick might generate a very different type of heat........something of which might get the WWE in trouble.

This could also very easily turn into a "get the fuck off my TV screen!" type heat.

With La Resistance, Kenzo Suzuki, and the UnAmericans all being on TV the last few years, I'm pretty sure that this whole "anti-American" thing is getting kinda of lame.


The only "anti-American" thing that would DRAW quite well IMO, is if Jericho, Benoit, Edge, Christian, La Resistance, and Trish Stratus.........managed by BRET HART :eek: were to form a stable of sorts.

In this type of setting, the fans would "LOVE to HATE" Canadians (instead of flat out racist hating). It would be a much friendlier type of heat (if that makes sense).