So How Many Times has the WWE missed the "Boat"

[Loose Cannon]

So I popped one of my old Raw tapes in today while doing a report and it was the time of The Alliance, right after Austin joined them. I'm watching the segment where it was Austin appreciation night and everyone in the ring had their Austin T-shirts and everything right.

Then there's Taz. No Austin T-shirt on, didn't really seem like he cared about appreciating anyone. Austin goes right up to him and starts riding him and riding him and riding him and you just know the audience wanted Taz to snap and just hit a Tazz Plex. But no. A couple of weeks later or maybe it was later in the night, Taz helps Austin beat up on.... I think it was Angle.

Anyway, watching this made me go through all times they just totally missed the boat on guys and didn't push them at the right moment, especially in the last 5 years.


So, if you guys can think of times when guys in the WWE were really hot and the crowd was totally behind them, but the WWE did nothing with them, list them here and talk about it a little. I could list off about 10 times in the last 7 years, but I don't feel like writing a column ;)

So Discuss

[Mister Sinister]

I remember that moment, which was one of my favorite markout moments, when Hurricane (Then Gregory Helms) gives austin a green lantern T-Shirt...and it also makes me realize, I miss Kanyon...and yes they dropped the ball with Taz, they also did it with the Hurricane after he scored a upset win over The rock

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Oddly, a similar thing involving Taz happened a week before the Appreciation thing.

Tazz was reprimanded by Austin and the crowd wanted Tazz to kick Austin's ass, but instead Tazz was beaten down by 7 or so Alliance members.

Then he's mega over on Smackdown. And what do they have him do? Yep, they have him turn on Angle.

And then he gets dissed by Austin at the Appreciation thing, but the announcers make no other mention of it after that.

If he had been pushed properly, Tazz may still be an active wrestler for all I know.</font> :n:

[Loose Cannon]

^^Which brings me to RVD. I think that same week when the wrestlers beat up Taz, was the same week RVD was late for Austin's interview or whatever. Austin starts talking shit to RVD and goes "I don't like you." Then RVD fires right back and says, "I don't like you eathier." The Crowd popped for that big time and they were already behind RVD, so the logical thing to do was have RVD spin kick Austin. But no, RVD just became Austin's bitch in a matter of seconds by attacking Taz.

[Mister Sinister]

and of course, they really blew it with RVD...espically when Austin was angered about what Angle did to him and said he would beat up the first person to come into the room, which everyone knew would be RVD. and basically the whole match, was Austin making Van Dam his bitch...before Van Dam got the win...they so blew it, I really wish they would of made him win the WWF Title in the 3 Way Dance...

and don't get me started on....Chris Jericho's Undisputed Title Reign

[Loose Cannon]

As long as I going here. Let's talk about Chris Jericho. God, there's been like 6 times they missed the boat on him. First when he comes in and should have got the best of The Rock. They should of had Jericho go back and forth with the Rock on the mic to where Jericho is not getting owned by him, which he did.

Then Jericho beats HHH for the belt and the crowd is going nuts, I know all of you went nuts and what's the WWF do? They take that belt right back and cut Jericho off.

Then they finally give Jericho that well deserbed push. I give them credit for making him the first Undisputed Champion. But what happens? Instead of Jericho looking like a top guy, they demote him to playing 2nd fiddle to the whole HHH/Stephenie fiasco. And once again, HHH gets the best of Y2J.

Even after the WWE has just about cut hi legs out from under him and killed him, the guy still gets pops larger then most and still is over with the crowd.

[Evil Vito]

^^Which brings me to RVD. I think that same week when the wrestlers beat up Taz, was the same week RVD was late for Austin's interview or whatever. Austin starts talking shit to RVD and goes "I don't like you." Then RVD fires right back and says, "I don't like you eathier." The Crowd popped for that big time and they were already behind RVD, so the logical thing to do was have RVD spin kick Austin. But no, RVD just became Austin's bitch in a matter of seconds by attacking Taz.

<font color=goldenrod>Actually I think that's a whole different week (yes, Taz looked like Austin's bitch on AT LEAST 5 occassions that I can think of during the Alliance angle). Pretty sad and stupid on the WWF's part.</font>

[Gouda]

Ultimo Dragon.

A legendary superstar. They hype him as so. Then he arrives and they do NOTHING with him.

And now they want to bring him back without his mask. :nono:

[DaveWadding]

If he had been pushed properly, Tazz may still be an active wrestler for all I know. :n:
Well, then you must not know much :n:

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, you bet I'm fired up now.

KURT ANGLE: What the fuck is wrong with them here. Again HHH played a part in this one. Oh and Stephenie did too. Kurt and HHH are both going as heels. They don't get along, but they work together. Angle then seems like he develops a thing for Stephenie. I remember that WWF show when Stephenie took a bump during a match and Kurt leaves the match and carries her to the back. I remember saying to myself that this angle was going to be huge. They have to let Steph go with Kurt. I couldn't wait for that to happen and then they would to a big blowoff match between Kurt and HHH at Mania or something. Now this was at a time when they were drawing like 7's in the ratings and you know the crowd wanted nothing more then to see Steph go with Kurt.

And what happens? You guessed it. They drop the god dam angle like nothing ever happend. Reee fucking diculous

[John la Rock]

ANd also they recently fucked up Randy Orton. He should still be the Champ today and the Leader of Evolution. Orton should have become "the present" of evolution as HHH should have got the boot. I still can't get over how badly they fucked that up

[Loose Cannon]

Nah, they really haven't done anything to Orton yet. He's being pushed like the next big thing. You can say they turned him and gave him the belt way to quickly though.

[Gouda]

If you want recent.... the whole Ric Flair/Randy Orton thing post match of Taboo Tuesday.

A Ric face turn would have been huge after that.

[DaveWadding]

Yo, LC, how about Mr. Perfect?

[PorkSoda]

They were also going to do a Hurricane heel turn it seems but they dropped that as well. A couple months or so back The Hurricane lost a match and he was frusterated, and he would give out his mask to kids in the audience, and after he lost he went out and snatched the mask from the kid and stormed away really upset.

Next week (Or the next time he was on Raw) they acted like nothing ever happened.

[Loose Cannon]

Oh man, yeah. With Perfect, they could of set up a HUGE feud between him and Hulk. They really could of made Perfect the main guy right there because if you think about it, there wasn't a lot of good heels during that time in the late 80's-early 90's. But this was at a time of the "Big Guys" and a guy like Earthquake, whom was decent, was put in that spot. Also, it's too bad they didn't have Perfect beat Flair for the belt instead of Bret. Cause those two were eathier in a big feud at the time or were just about to feud.

[Loose Cannon]

they didn't miss the boat on Hurricane though cause nobody cared or cares about him

[Loose Cannon]

And I'm not sure who was doing drugs when they had Luger beat Yoko via countout at Summerslam 93. I mean you have Luger turn face, get off the helicopter at the USS Intreped, and do what nobody else could do that day and slam Yoko. That was such a markout moment. Then you build Lex up for like 4 months and have him be the wrestling fans hero. You have everyone believe he's going to take down the unstoppable Yokozuna and have everyone believe Luger would win the Championship. It was such a good story in a time when they needed something like that. Then they just didn't go through with it. Kind of would liked to have sat in on that booking meeting.

[Gouda]

they didn't miss the boat on Hurricane though cause nobody cared or cares about him

I do. :-\

Speaking of Mr. Perfect.... when he returned in the Rumble I think they missed the boat too. He was one of the last ones in there and everybody loved it..... well... at least I did. They could have done more with him after that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If you want recent.... the whole Ric Flair/Randy Orton thing post match of Taboo Tuesday.

A Ric face turn would have been huge after that.

Nah, Flair face has been done in and out in the WWE. A heel dominant Orton would have been better, IMO.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the WWE has dropped the ball with Mordecai the most. Having him BRAWL with Hardcore Holly was just stupid. I could've seen that guy winning the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 21 if it wasn't for that.

[DaveWadding]

and not putting the belt on DiBiase 35748505837385068743624749 times.

[Mr. Nerfect]

and not putting the belt on DiBiase 35748505837385068743624749 times.

:y:

[SuperSlim]

there is no possible way to even begin to name off the misses that the WWE had.

It's like figurin out pi. not possible.

[Mister Sinister]

they didn't miss the boat on Hurricane though cause nobody cared or cares about him

I will ignorge that comment right there....Alot of people care about "Sugar" Shane Helms/Hurricane...don't rub your beliefs off on us buddy...yes his gimmick is getting stale, but people do care about him...

[John la Rock]

Hurricane needs a gimmick change.........BADLY

[MVP]

How about in 95 when British Bulldog was on a major role. At the October In Your House PPV Bulldog could've walked out WWE Champion, but only beats Diesel by DQ when Bret Hart attacks him. If Bulldog would have won the title that night he could've had a great long term title feud with Bret, but he is forced to stay under the glass ceiling that Diesel and Mabel had on top of his chance at main event success.

[MVP]

Oh hey, how about 2 weeks ago on RAW with having Edge and Xtian brawl instead of reuniting. :nono:

[Gouda]

Nah that was okay. Don't want them reuniting.

Where they dropped the ball was not having Xtian get sweet revenge on Edge.

[RP]

I forget what year i'm thinking 2 years ago at Royal Rumble when Maven came in after Taker had oliminated a shit load of people and dropkicked him over the ropes. Thats was HUGE. They could have built Maven up big time off that if they played there cards right. I think taker ended up barrying him.

[The One]

I have just three words for you all...

Rob---Van---Dam!

Anyone remember when The Rock and RVD fought on Raw for the WCW Championship? Despite the fact that RVD was an Alliance Member, despite the fact that at the time Rock was the leader of the WWF, Robbie V still got a bigger pop then The Rock. Not to mention about 10,000 other times when RVD has been the biggest pop of the night, so instead of pushing him, or letting him do his too cool for school personality from ECW, they put him in barial matches, and let him work odd tag teams with Kane, Jeff Hardy, and Rey Mysterio....good one fellas... :/

[LK]

I'm wuite suprised that no one has mentioned Raven yet. Ace introduction and then nothing. We all know what Raven can do and if the WWE had let him do that then I firmly believe that he would be one of the biggest stars in the business.

[Savio]

I don't think jericho should have won the undisputed title because I saw him as a high midcarder and not a main eventer.

[Pepsi Man]

Yeah, you bet I'm fired up now.

KURT ANGLE: What the fuck is wrong with them here. Again HHH played a part in this one. Oh and Stephenie did too. Kurt and HHH are both going as heels. They don't get along, but they work together. Angle then seems like he develops a thing for Stephenie. I remember that WWF show when Stephenie took a bump during a match and Kurt leaves the match and carries her to the back. I remember saying to myself that this angle was going to be huge. They have to let Steph go with Kurt. I couldn't wait for that to happen and then they would to a big blowoff match between Kurt and HHH at Mania or something. Now this was at a time when they were drawing like 7's in the ratings and you know the crowd wanted nothing more then to see Steph go with Kurt.

And what happens? You guessed it. They drop the god dam angle like nothing ever happend. Reee fucking diculous
Actually, this ended up turning Triple H face briefly in 2000, and Triple H and Kurt Angle did indeed do battle at the September Pay-Per-View in 2000, Unforgiven. Also, in storylines, Triple H and Kurt Angle have really never gotten along since, to the point where Angle gave Triple H right back to Raw as soon as he became GM of SmackDown!

I forget what year i'm thinking 2 years ago at Royal Rumble when Maven came in after Taker had oliminated a shit load of people and dropkicked him over the ropes. Thats was HUGE. They could have built Maven up big time off that if they played there cards right. I think taker ended up barrying him.
Actually, nothing could be further from the truth than that. It was in 2002, and following the Rumble match, Undertaker wanted revenge, so he put his Hardcore Title on the line against Maven, only for Maven to win the match albeit with help from The Rock. So Maven actually owns a one-on-one victory over The Undertaker.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, but who won the match between HHH and Angle and who did Steph go with? Point taken, case closed. ANGLE never went over

[Pepsi Man]

Yeah, but who won the match between HHH and Angle and who did Steph go with? Point taken, case closed. ANGLE never went over
Actually, Steph did indeed end up managing Kurt Angle, and Kurt defeated Triple H at the 2001 Royal Rumble to retain the WWF Championship. :o

[Loose Cannon]

yea, but 2001 was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy after that angle. Didn't matter after that. People will tell you how many female audience viewers they lost after that angle. Angle beat HHH in 2001. So what? They MISSED THE BOAT when Angle could of went over HHH and Steph could of gone with Angle. I don't even remember Steph being Angle's manager so it shows you how much effect that had on me. Where was HHH in this? Just another case of HHH going over a guy when it means the most and then jobbing when it means shit.

[Pepsi Man]

yea, but 2001 was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy after that angle. Didn't matter after that. People will tell you how many female audience viewers they lost after that angle. Angle beat HHH in 2001. So what? They MISSED THE BOAT when Angle could of went over HHH and Steph could of gone with Angle. I don't even remember Steph being Angle's manager so it shows you how much effect that had on me. Where was HHH in this? Just another case of HHH going over a guy when it means the most and then jobbing when it means shit.
It was January of 2001 meanwhile you're talking about them having a "big blowoff match" at the next Mania, which would've been MARCH of 2001.

Triple H was still an active wrestler as Steph managed WWF Champion Kurt Angle.

[Loose Cannon]

I said "Mania or something." I was suggesting one of the big PPV's cause I didn't feel like looking up dates. But HHH already beat Angle at Unforgiven, so it didn't matter. Now that I see Unforgiven was Sept. 2000, they should of had the match at Survivor Series 2000. HHH should of won the the Belt at Summerslam. Angle should of beat HHH at eathier Survivor Series or Royal Rumble for the Belt. But even without the Championship on the line, Steph should of turned on HHH and went with Angle right when that angle was getting hottt

[Pepsi Man]

I said "Mania or something." I was suggesting one of the big PPV's cause I didn't feel like looking up dates. But HHH already beat Angle at Unforgiven, so it didn't matter. Now that I see Unforgiven was Sept. 2000, they should of had the match at Survivor Series 2000. HHH should of won the the Belt at Summerslam. Angle should of beat HHH at eathier Survivor Series or Royal Rumble for the Belt. But even without the Championship on the line, Steph should of turned on HHH and went with Angle right when that angle was getting hottt
Oh, okay, so Triple H prevented Kurt Angle from going over by not winning the WWF Title, even though Kurt himself went over The Rock in October 2000. Makes perfect sense to me. DAMN WWF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Loose Cannon]

Dude, forget Kurt getting the belt. Just forget about Titles. Like I said before they lost a big market (the female audience) when Steph never went with Kurt. Okay, so Kurt beat Rock for the Belt. Big Deal. That wasn't the BIG angle they had going. HHH behind the scenes felt he didn't want his wife hanging around Kurt Angle that much and put a quick stop to it. The plan was for Kurt to go over HHH and Steph to go with Kurt, but it never happened.

[Pepsi Man]

Dude, forget Kurt getting the belt. Just forget about Titles. Like I said before they lost a big market (the female audience) when Steph never went with Kurt. Okay, so Kurt beat Rock for the Belt. Big Deal. That wasn't the BIG angle they had going. HHH behind the scenes felt he didn't want his wife hanging around Kurt Angle that much and put a quick stop to it. The plan was for Kurt to go over HHH and Steph to go with Kurt, but it never happened.
So wait, you want to forget about titles, wins, losses, and angles EXCEPT that you apparently know that "the plan" was for Steph to "go with Kurt"? Give me a break. As I said though, if Triple H "behind the scenes" didn't want Kurt hanging around Steph (even though Kurt is a happily married man from what I understand), what was Stephanie doing as Kurt's manager? Oh wait, you don't remember that, so it doesn't count. :(

[Loose Cannon]

Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.

[Pepsi Man]

Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.
So Steph being attracted to Kurt couldn't have been to hype up the Triple Threat match at SummerSlam, build up for Triple H vs. Kurt Angle at Unforgiven, OR for Triple H and Steph to swerve Kurt while they were constantly swerving everyone else in the company?

As far as the fans wanting Steph to go with Kurt, I don't think anything could be further from the truth, as the fans would always cheer when Triple H beat the hell out of Kurt after Kurt was with/around Steph. Granted, I'm not a 12-year-old writing "newsletters" without even actually watching the show, but that's my take on it.

[Loose Cannon]

http://oratory.rajahwwf.com/index.php?archive=1636

HERE, Look someone agrees with me here.

[Pepsi Man]

http://oratory.rajahwwf.com/index.php?archive=1636

HERE, Look someone agrees with me here.
Even he acknowledges that they did indeed have a match. As far as sending Triple H "full babyface", as he requests, that would've been a waste if he was only going to turn heel again two months later anyway.

[Nark Order]

So I popped one of my old Raw tapes in today while doing a report and it was the time of The Alliance, right after Austin joined them. I'm watching the segment where it was Austin appreciation night and everyone in the ring had their Austin T-shirts and everything right.

Then there's Taz. No Austin T-shirt on, didn't really seem like he cared about appreciating anyone. Austin goes right up to him and starts riding him and riding him and riding him and you just know the audience wanted Taz to snap and just hit a Tazz Plex. But no. A couple of weeks later or maybe it was later in the night, Taz helps Austin beat up on.... I think it was Angle.

Anyway, watching this made me go through all times they just totally missed the boat on guys and didn't push them at the right moment, especially in the last 5 years.


So, if you guys can think of times when guys in the WWE were really hot and the crowd was totally behind them, but the WWE did nothing with them, list them here and talk about it a little. I could list off about 10 times in the last 7 years, but I don't feel like writing a column ;)

So Discuss
I was at that show in the very front row!!

[Evolution]

Didn't they do something else with Austin/Tazz (the birth of "What?") when Tazz was disrespecting Austin, Austin started beating on Tazz and The Alliance just walked off disgusted with Austin?

Another missed boat was nWo. They came into the WWF with all the momentum in the world, then at their 1st PPV they lose both matches (Hall to Austin, Hogan to Rock).

If nWo really was this poison, wouldn't the logical thing be nWo victories? Fair enough, with Hogan's face pops, they wanted him out, so what they did wit Hogan/Rock was good.

But Hall and Nash? Now, I'm a HUGE Austin fan, maybe a Mark to some extent, but Hall should have beaten Austin at WMX8. I mean, Nash was interfering, so if Austin lost, there would have been controversy so Austin had claim to a rematch.

Then nWo would still be beating on people and seeming like a threat, I mean, beating Austin isn't easy. Then anytime Austin looked like he was FINALLY going to beat Hall or whoever, they go all WCW and throw someone out (X-Pac, Big Show), have Them cost Austin the match, new nWo member and MORE controversy.

And at the end of nWo as it was (this is a part that no-one seems to remember) Nash and Michaels issued an ultimatum to Triple H. " Leave SmackDown, come to RAW and join nWo, or there'll be Hell to pay". Next week, Vince announces he has killed the nWo because they couldn't get the job done that he hired them for. Later, Triple H is on RAW. Would he have joined nWo or feuded with them?

A golden missed opportunity. And the legacy of possibly WCW's greatest product killed in the process. Hell, that might be the only reason they were brought in in the first place.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nah that was okay. Don't want them reuniting.

Where they dropped the ball was not having Xtian get sweet revenge on Edge.

It will come. I have a feeling Edge will go soaring over the top-rope in that Battle Royal on RAW at least partly because of Christian. :y:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Dude, I'm just telling you what I've heard and read from newsletters, interviews from legit guys. Think about it, why would they tease Steph being attracted to Kurt if they weren't planning on going through with Steph going with Angle? Just think. Any idiot can see THE FANS WANTED STEPH TO GO WITH KURT and they didn't do it for some reason. And we all know who was that reason. That's all I'm sayng on this.

I don't have a perfect memory of the whole scenario, but I am 80% sure the fans were behind Triple H during the ordeal. They saw Stephanie as a slut and Angle as low-life for trying to have an affair with her.

Besides the whole love triangle made for a great angle, and really didn't need the title. If I was writing the storylines, I'd have had Angle win the title in the Triple Threat Match at Summerslam, then have rumours come up saying Angle only used Steph to cause Triple H to go off his game, and to allow Angle his first title win. You then have Angle vs. The Rock at Unforgiven, followed by Angle vs. Triple H at No Mercy.

Anyway, I don't know if the plan was to put Angle and Steph together, rather than just create a good storyline and give two heels a reason to feud.

[Heyman]

Great thread. :y:

Here is my opinions (in no particular order)

1) Chris Jericho circa 2001 (he should have gone up against Austin at Summerslam that year.....not Angle. Angle was too newly turned as a face to go up against a "popular" heel in Austin. Jericho had the crowd. Since Austin injured Jericho's friend Benoit at KOTR, the storyline was there as well).

2) RVD circa 2002: RVD was WAY over. Even a push in 2001 would've been great (although I semi-understand the WWE's reasoning in wanting people to "pay their dues" within the WWE). RVD should have garnered some more "significant" victories, so that he could be taken seriously as a legitimate main-event threat for the future.

3) Kurt Angle circa 2001: After 9/11, the WWE decided to make Angle's character into a joke. The WWE bailed on Angle's face turn (which was developing quite nicely). Bad bad move. :nono: Blame the WWE for completely rushing Angle's face turn that year, and then bailing out when things didn't IMMEDIATELY go their way.

4) Brock Lesnar circa 2002: Lesnar should have been the undisputed champion that appeared on BOTH shows. He should have stayed HEEL (despite if a lot of fans CHEERED him). His first loss should have come at WRESTLEMANIA 19 (perhaps to RVD?).

5) Randy Orton circa August 2004: The WWE should not have turned Orton face the day after Summerslam (especially on that very same night where he cut such an excellent heel promo). Furthermore - the WWE shouldn't have blown their WM MAIN-EVENT at Unforgiven.


6) Triple H circa 2002: I still believe to this day that Triple H could have been HUGE as a face. Instead - the WWE shoved him down our throats, and also involved Stephanie too much (initially when Steph was with Triple H, she contributed to tearing the fans away from Hunter). Triple H's brief feud with the McMahon's was also done poorly.

7) Kane circa 2003: Kane was WAY over when he turned heel (and unmasked), but a 3 month idiotic feud with Shane McMahon soon followed. Kane's re-juvinated character was pissed away.

8) Matt Hardy circa 2003: When Matt Hardy first defected to RAW, he was WAY over as a face. Instead - the WWE (idiotically) turned Matt against Lita and wrecked his heat (and also confused the fans). Matt then became a jobber.

Later on (when the fans didn't care nearly as much about "Mattitude"), they re-united him back with Lita.....and were back to square one.


9) Chris Jericho circa 2004: Jericho was doing tremendous as a heel. Even though he was a mid-card wrestler, he was still getting solid victories over the likes of HBK, Kevin Nash, etc. (and still looked credible).

Since Jericho's face turn however, the WWE have made Jericho look VERY "average". Jericho still has credibility due to his immense popularity, but the guy was a TREMENDOUS heel.


10) D'Lo Brown: A guy who could have EASILY been the next main-stream superstar. D'Lo was WAY over with the fans (face and heel). WWE's mishandling of D'Lo Brown was arguably their biggest act of idiocy of all-time.


11) Steve Austin circa 2001: No way the WWE should have turned Austin "face" at Survivor Series 2001. Austin should have kept his "heeldom" until Wrestlemania-18........where he could've then put over the "top face" of the company in the main-event.


12) Big Show circa 1999: The WWE had a great thing going with Big Show, but then decided to make him Taker's bitch. Ever since that time - Big Show has never really been a "larger than life" type character.

[Gouda]

They missed the boat by taking the title off of Eddie. He could have been huge.

They also took the title off Bentoit too early.

[The CyNick]

Here's the deal ont he Kurt-HHH deal in 2000:

If you were following ratings at that time (which I was) you would know that the whole love triangle thing was doing big numbers. They culminated with that bit where Angle planted a kiss on Steph just before a PPV match. But rather than going with the logical story of Angle stealing Steph and having HHH turn baby, they totally squashed the angle.

Angle and HHH ahd a one on one match, and the big climax to the program was HHH telling Steph wto choose and she kicked Angle and HHH got the win. Angle did go on to win the title the next month, but the message had been sent that HHH was bigger and better than Angle, and Angle was just a mid crad guys holding the World Title. Angle did get a win over HHH at the Rumble in 2001, but it was one of those deals where Angle didn't really do anything to beat HHH, it was outside interference that won the match.

But the main point is that they "missed the boat" on putting Kurt with Steph, which was the only logical finish to that program. I dont know that HHH was worried about people talking about Kurt and Steph being together al the time, but I do know he didn't want to be a face and more importantly didn't want to be booked to look liek Angle got one over on him.

To prove the point they basically repeated the same mistake in 2002 when they could have used Hunter's injury to get a story where Jericho was banging Steph on the side while Hunter was recovering. Then Jericho could have taken credit for putting Hunter on the sidelines. They dropped the ball on both accounts and went with the much more thrilling dog poop angle.

As for other missed opportunities:

1) Jerihco in 1999. When Jericho jumped he had the big entrance and it was clear he was over enough to be on the same level as Rock and Austin. But another guy with long blond hair was on pace to get a World Title push at the same time, so coincedentally Jerihco ended up in programs with X-Pac and Road Dogg.....yeah Road Dogg. That was a missed opportunity to make Jericho a true main event player.

2) Angle in 2000 (see above section)

3) Benoit coming in in 2000 as WCW champ. They had Benoit coming off WCW TV and the World Champ, instead of making Benoit on par with the then champion HHH, they had him JOB right away and put him in the mid card spot he still holds down today. Surely they could have at least got on major PPV match out of the WCW champion facing the WWF Champion.

4) Turning HHH face after WM 17. They needed a strong babyface to make up for Rock leaving and Austin's heel turn. Instead of building off a strong match Austina nd HHH had in February of that year (which HHH won) they kept HHH heel, and the fans had nobody to get behind.

5) Invasion (do I need to expand on this one?)

6) Re-turning Austin in July '01. Austin was a failure at the box office as a heel, with the Invasion they had a chance to undo their mistake, but not only did they no undo the mistake they swerved the fans with an Austin face turn. Bad move, and I'm sure that pissed off more than a few fans.

7) Tazz during the same time. He could have also been pushed a lot better right formt he start, but again like RVD, the fans wanted to get behind someone, and he could have been major if only they let him choke out Austin.

8) RVD also during the summer of '01. Lots of teases that went nowhere.

9) Angle as a badass babyface after 9/11. Seemed like a logical thing to do, but Angle is comedy, and that why he cant draw.

10) Lesnar as a long term dominant champion. Again, this had a lot to dow ith Hunter. Hunter didn't want to be the IC champ, so they created a new World Title and it made Lesnar look weaker. To make matters worse, they had Lesnar drop the title after only 3 months.

11) RVD in 2002 after HHH was handed the World Title. Last chance for RVD to be anything more than a mid carder.

12) Eric Bischoff -- Why did he have to hug Vince?

13) Goldberg -- Beginning to end

14) Benoit and Eddie never getting the chance to actually carry the company.

[Pepsi Man]

Here's the deal ont he Kurt-HHH deal in 2000:

If you were following ratings at that time (which I was) you would know that the whole love triangle thing was doing big numbers. They culminated with that bit where Angle planted a kiss on Steph just before a PPV match. But rather than going with the logical story of Angle stealing Steph and having HHH turn baby, they totally squashed the angle.

Angle and HHH ahd a one on one match, and the big climax to the program was HHH telling Steph wto choose and she kicked Angle and HHH got the win. Angle did go on to win the title the next month, but the message had been sent that HHH was bigger and better than Angle, and Angle was just a mid crad guys holding the World Title. Angle did get a win over HHH at the Rumble in 2001, but it was one of those deals where Angle didn't really do anything to beat HHH, it was outside interference that won the match.

But the main point is that they "missed the boat" on putting Kurt with Steph, which was the only logical finish to that program. I dont know that HHH was worried about people talking about Kurt and Steph being together al the time, but I do know he didn't want to be a face and more importantly didn't want to be booked to look liek Angle got one over on him.

To prove the point they basically repeated the same mistake in 2002 when they could have used Hunter's injury to get a story where Jericho was banging Steph on the side while Hunter was recovering. Then Jericho could have taken credit for putting Hunter on the sidelines. They dropped the ball on both accounts and went with the much more thrilling dog poop angle.

As for other missed opportunities:

1) Jerihco in 1999. When Jericho jumped he had the big entrance and it was clear he was over enough to be on the same level as Rock and Austin. But another guy with long blond hair was on pace to get a World Title push at the same time, so coincedentally Jerihco ended up in programs with X-Pac and Road Dogg.....yeah Road Dogg. That was a missed opportunity to make Jericho a true main event player.

2) Angle in 2000 (see above section)

3) Benoit coming in in 2000 as WCW champ. They had Benoit coming off WCW TV and the World Champ, instead of making Benoit on par with the then champion HHH, they had him JOB right away and put him in the mid card spot he still holds down today. Surely they could have at least got on major PPV match out of the WCW champion facing the WWF Champion.

4) Turning HHH face after WM 17. They needed a strong babyface to make up for Rock leaving and Austin's heel turn. Instead of building off a strong match Austina nd HHH had in February of that year (which HHH won) they kept HHH heel, and the fans had nobody to get behind.

5) Invasion (do I need to expand on this one?)

6) Re-turning Austin in July '01. Austin was a failure at the box office as a heel, with the Invasion they had a chance to undo their mistake, but not only did they no undo the mistake they swerved the fans with an Austin face turn. Bad move, and I'm sure that pissed off more than a few fans.

7) Tazz during the same time. He could have also been pushed a lot better right formt he start, but again like RVD, the fans wanted to get behind someone, and he could have been major if only they let him choke out Austin.

8) RVD also during the summer of '01. Lots of teases that went nowhere.

9) Angle as a badass babyface after 9/11. Seemed like a logical thing to do, but Angle is comedy, and that why he cant draw.

10) Lesnar as a long term dominant champion. Again, this had a lot to dow ith Hunter. Hunter didn't want to be the IC champ, so they created a new World Title and it made Lesnar look weaker. To make matters worse, they had Lesnar drop the title after only 3 months.

11) RVD in 2002 after HHH was handed the World Title. Last chance for RVD to be anything more than a mid carder.

12) Eric Bischoff -- Why did he have to hug Vince?

13) Goldberg -- Beginning to end

14) Benoit and Eddie never getting the chance to actually carry the company.
It's the only "logical finish" because it's what you were expecting. I say that of the many, many unfinished stories the WWF has been famous for in its time, this does not fall in that category. Additionally, the logic was fine.

As for the ratings, I'm sure you work in the television industry.

Ratings are overrated anyway, as they only take the results from people that are involved with them.

[Mr. JL]

I have just three words for you all...

Rob---Van---Dam!


Out of anybody in the past 5 years... they fucked up with RVD the most.

[Mr. JL]

Jeff Hardy in 2001 when he defeated Triple H for the IC Title comes to mind. This was just before Jeff lost his passion and I'd like to beleive it is where it started. He won the IC Title from Triple H and then jobs it back 6 days later and thrown into the cruiserweight division. Not too mention people did not even see Jeff get pinned to lose the title. They were too busy showing Lita getting chased by Austin instead of focusing in on the ring.

[Loose Cannon]

LOL PepsiMan, shut up. You're like the only person I know who says that finish was logical. AND CYNICK Thankyou once again :D

[Pepsi Man]

LOL PepsiMan, shut up. You're like the only person I know who says that finish was logical. AND CYNICK Thankyou once again :D
Even Alienoid who posted right in this thread, while not completely agreeing with the way the storyline panned out, agrees that having Steph "go with" Angle was not necessarily the way to end that angle.

I'm sorry if we can't all have our opinions force-fed to us by "reports" written by twelve year olds.

[Heyman]

LOL! :lol:

Pepsi Man is one of my favorite tpww posters of all-time. :D

[RemyRed]

Booker T - 2001

The night after King Of The Ring (when he put Austin through the table) he was getting huge pops. He could've been a top face in WWE at the time (or after WM19 if he wouldn't have jobbed) but Vince's vendetta against the WCW/ECW wrestlers led him to start burying everyone who was in the Alliance after that angle was finished.

[Pepsi Man]

LOL! :lol:

Pepsi Man is one of my favorite tpww posters of all-time. :D
That almost sounds like a Mattitude fact or something.

[Heyman]

That almost sounds like a Mattitude fact or something.


I dunno. :)

You just remind me of some retarded kid that I used to know in high school. He was the funniest "mentally challenged" kid that I've ever seen (you remind me of him because you guys "flip out" in similar ways).

Just as in your case, everyone used to get a (HUGE) laugh at his expense. At the same time however, people knew deep down that the environment just would not be the same without him. ;)

[Pepsi Man]

I dunno. :)

You just remind me of some retarded kid that I used to know in high school. He was the funniest "mentally challenged" kid that I've ever seen (you remind me of him because you guys "flip out" in similar ways).

Just as in your case, everyone used to get a (HUGE) laugh at his expense. At the same time however, people knew deep down that the environment just would not be the same without him. ;)
Now that's just like a segment out of a movie. I can hear the "awwwwwwwwww"s now along with that cheesy music they invariably throw in.

[BigDaddyCool]

Who fuckin' cares if the missed the boat, it is the past and there is no changing it now, plus it is fake. There is nothing worse that people bitching and complaining about how some soap opera made for 18 year old boys messed up 3 years ago. While yes WWE dropped the ball many times, but you keep watch, or somebody does. So lets move into the now, and talk about how they should change things up instead of how the should have changed things up, it is way more productive.

[Fignuts]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BigDaddyCool again.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before

[MVP]

This thread has brought back some good memories. :cry:

[Pepsi Man]

yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before
We don't see eye-to-eye on much apparently, but I'll agree with you there.

[Fignuts]

Originally posted by Loose Cannon
yea, sorry for discussing the past on a message board. We've never done that before

That's his point though. We all know WWE has screwed up in the past. There have been tons of threads like this, and it's always the same arguments over and over again. It gets redundant after a while.

[Loose Cannon]

hey look at this BDC THREAD http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21880

HEY CHECK OUT POINT #5

WHY IS BDC DISCUSSING THE PAST HERE?

[Loose Cannon]

Originally posted by Loose Cannon


That's his point though. We all know WWE has screwed up in the past. There have been tons of threads like this, and it's always the same arguments over and over again. It gets redundant after a while.

Yeah great. Actually, other then that BDC thread I just posted, there hasn't been tons of threads like this.

[Pepsi Man]

hey look at this BDC THREAD http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21880

HEY CHECK OUT POINT #5

WHY IS BDC DISCUSSING THE PAST HERE?
To be fair, sure he might mention the past, but...he's basically bitching about the present.
Wait, my mistake. The topic title itself was RVD, Did WWE drop the ball, or does he just suck?

Did is in fact past tense. :-\

[big_bluto]

What about Matt Morgan, Mordecai & Sean O'Haire?

Morgan got brought up from OVW and got stuck straight into Survivor Series, then got promptly sent back again.
Mordecai - same deal.

Sean O'haire - got contracted and buried for what? 2 years? Then released!

All the Tough Enough dudes - not one of them has been allowed to do anything decent in the time they've been given. I think every one of them has been lower/mid card jobbers.

Jamie Noble - The guy never put a bad match on in all the time he was at WWE, and they bulleted him. Assholes!

Hardcore Holly - Why haven't they sacked this guy? He's a knob!

Tag Teams like Kidman/London - whole storyline was a botch-fest.


My personal gripe - Matt Hardy - great talent, and they've made him job to pretty much everyone, with the possible exception of Kane, who's been made to job to EVERYONE. Matt Hardy has it all, and could be a HUGE draw for them, but as usual....his-handled!


There are hundreds of others!

[John la Rock]

OWEN HART - POST SURVIVOR SERIES 1997

They should have definetly of had a HUGE rivalry between Owen and HBK over the screw-job and the WWF Championship instead of a Raw match that ended in DQ. It should have been HBK vs Owen at the Rumble for the belt instead of HBK/Taker.

[John la Rock]

CHRIS JERICHO - This past summer's RAW in Winnipeg

Jericho won the Musical Chairs which was BRILLIANT but instead of having him face Chris Benoit (in a guaranteed 5 star match) for the World Title he recieves an Intercontinental Title Match against Randy Orton.

STUPID WWE :mad:

[Innovator]

Another Taz point:

In 2000 after he won the ECW Title from Mike Awesome, he came out on RAW wearing the ECW Title. Then on Smackdown he faced Triple H. I know Vince alluded to this in the ECW DVD, there is no way in hell Taz should have jobbed to H there. Say a double countout or something, or make Dreamer's interference make it a no contest. The ball was there in Taz's court, then taken away. Don't even get me started on the Lawler feud.