Captain Charisma...

[BigDaddyCool]

That match sucked with CC and Benjiam, I hope Christian goes back to being Christian next week.

[Loose Cannon]

I'm really pissed at what they've done to him. And I can't believe they did it to one of thier home grown talent. Here's a guy who had everything going for him and was probably the 2nd best heel on Raw a few months back and then unfortunately got injured. But he comes back and he's still garnering heat, but they've killed him off and hung him out to dry. How is he suppossed to get his momentum back after all these horrible segments he's been in the past few months. Edge beats the crap out of him, he's jobbing like crazy, he's wearing ridiculous costumes. I mean, seriously, what the fuck?

[BigDaddyCool]

Totally. If they would just let him get some moment and stop making him look weak.

[Loose Cannon]

I mean, Wrestling works like this: It can take 3 months to build a guy up to the point where the fans get behind him or give him good heat, but it only takes one or two fuck ups to totally kill a guy.

Kind of like how life works. To relate it to some of us in school, you can work on a project for like 3 months and are sure you will get an A, but then you don't hand it in at the time it's due and it might be all over.

[Funky Fly]

Yeah, Christian's new music, Captain Charisma moniker and Ring Jackets = :y:

Having Tomko, jobbing to everyone and bad costumes = :n:

He'd better get an upper mid card push soon as a reward for getting raped, career-wise and not complaining about it.

[Azriel]

I think this was a one time thing. Jericho was just teasing Christian.

[John la Rock]

^ yes it was

[Funky Fly]

Yeah, but he is still jobbing to everyone. Must be payment for getting to pin HBK.

[Loose Cannon]

yes, the new music and outfit are all great, but I don't know how you can save him after he's had his legs cut out from underneath him this past month. It's hard to rebuild time and time again with a guy. But if there is anybody who can work hard and do it himself, it's Christian.

Jericho is the same way. How many times has he kept coming back after being knocked down time and time again?

[Loose Cannon]

I'm ranting now, but HHH is the cause of most of this. He's not willing to give up his main heel spot and that's killing all the up and coming heels. If I was a heel who was doing great in the mid cards right now, I would be like "Fuck" cause there's no where to go after that. Look at Orton? He was doing great as a heel and was set to become the top heel, but HHH is there, so they turn him face. Who was the last heel besides HHH to hold the Title on Raw anyway?

[Innovator]

Christian needs to feud with Edge. Have him win the feud and it can boost him up a couple spots.

[Savio]

Kind of like how life works. To relate it to some of us in school, you can work on a project for like 3 months and are sure you will get an A, but then you don't hand it in at the time it's due and it might be all over.Or friendships 1 kick to the nuts will put a stop to it.
-----------------
JR: Bah Gawd king Christian is turning his mask around.

[Xero]

Who was the last heel besides HHH to hold the Title on Raw anyway?
Looking at Rajah's title history, Triple H has been the ONLY heel to hold the WWE version of the World Heavyweight Championship.

Champion Defeated Title Reign City Date Notes
Triple H ------------- 76 days Milwaukee, WI 9-2-02 1
Shawn Michaels Triple H 28 days New York, NY 11-17-02 2
Triple H (2) Shawn Michaels 282 days Ft. Lauderdale, FL 12-15-02 3
Bill Goldberg Triple H 82 days Hershey, PA 09-23-03
Triple H (3) Goldberg 91 days Orlando, FL 12-14-03
Chris Benoit Triple H 154 days New York, NY 03-14-04 4
Randy Orton Chris Benoit 28 days Toronto, ON 08-15-04
Triple H (4) Randy Orton Current Champ Portland, OR 09-12-04

This is scary, it really is. No joke, Triple H is out of control now that I see this.

[Savio]

Who was the last heel besides HHH to hold the Title on Raw anyway?Never (Besides Ortons 1 might)...However the last Heel to hold that title was Y2J

[The CyNick]

Yeah its tough to be a heel on RAW.

Edge will be next to hit the wall. He's doing some good stuff as the whinning, yet somewhat nutty heel, but it can only go so far. He has to win the belt at some point in order to continue the push. BUt the question is will he? In all likelyhood, he wont, unless its a short reign just to get it on someone else.

If they go through with Orton as the World Champ, they really should have Edge be one of the first major programs for Orton (not right away, but say for Summerslam 05).

SD could really use a new heel or even two, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to send some combination of Edge, Christian and Orton (if they were to turn him back) or Batista if he stays heel (which I dont think will be possible).

[The Naitch]

assasinating Triple H is the only solution

[The Naitch]

or turning Trips face

[Sephiroth]

Can't we just send trips to the moon.

[StrongMad]

I am so sick of HHH having the title. But then again, who isn't? I mean seriously... this is running dry... He's had the title for what seems like the past 3 years or so. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but you know...

[Gone Mad]

Just realize this, people. Xtian is not the most serious character on the show and that this week's episode was just Jericho's way of payback for all the history between them. He is my favorite, besides J, on Raw but yeah, I'd say lose Tomko, fued with Edgeward at WM21, and we got either the big top face or the second biggest heel.

I can't stand HHH every other month winning the title. Give the cat a break with the thing and let others hold on it at least once before giving it back to him (of course, don't give the belt to everyone as it lowers the cred). Let Daddy's Boy work his way to the title like everyone else and build up his current storyline like that, as that would make him an even more pissed off and evil heel later on. But of course, that won't happen.

[Gouda]

assasinating Triple H is the only solution

Now I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree. Can't we just do something to his voicebox?

[John la Rock]

I'm ranting now, but HHH is the cause of most of this. He's not willing to give up his main heel spot and that's killing all the up and coming heels. If I was a heel who was doing great in the mid cards right now, I would be like "Fuck" cause there's no where to go after that. Look at Orton? He was doing great as a heel and was set to become the top heel, but HHH is there, so they turn him face. Who was the last heel besides HHH to hold the Title on Raw anyway?

Enough of this HHH hogs the top heel spot bull shit. HHH has all ready been face on many occasions. He is a 10000000000 X better as a heel and the most established star in the WWE.

Christian, if anything, should turn face (since he never really has)

Orton should still be a heel, but I understand why they turned him face. Why not see what he can do?

HHH has been the best heel in the company and deserves the top spot (Although if Rock was still wrestling full time i'd say different)

[Dorkchop]

Christian sould stay heel forever. He's the second top heel on Raw right now. He's funny, so why not work with that every once in a while?

[Loose Cannon]

Enough of this HHH hogs the top heel spot bull shit. HHH has all ready been face on many occasions. He is a 10000000000 X better as a heel and the most established star in the WWE.

Christian, if anything, should turn face (since he never really has)

Orton should still be a heel, but I understand why they turned him face. Why not see what he can do?

HHH has been the best heel in the company and deserves the top spot (Although if Rock was still wrestling full time i'd say different)

Wow, check this out. Okay. First of all, you say HHH is "10000000000 X better as a heel and the most established star in the WWE." Well NO SHIT. WHEN YOU BOOK A GUY LIKE HHH HAS BEEN BOOKED FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS TO DOMINATE EVERYOBDY, OF COURSE HE'S GOING TO BE THE MOST ESTABLISHED GUY. That's my whole god dam point. HHH, Vince and whomever else is back in that lockeroom control this fucking company and don't let anybody else get a shot as a main heel. Are you saying that nobody in the company can draw better than HHH as a heel?

HHH has drawn shit since being on top for the past 3 years. If you seriously believe that a guy like Christian, Orton, Kane, Jericho, (bigest bullshit ever when he had the Title) Booker T ETC.. couldn't replace HHH right now as the top heel and draw the same, if not better, ratings than him, you are mistaken. The WWE knows how to make people, they've done it hundreds of times before. It's a simple formula really. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know how to get someone over.

I seriously can't believe how you can say something like this. Why do you think Pat Patterson, maybe the best booker the WWE had, quit? He quit because he spoke up and said HHH needs to get out of that top spot and HHH got pissed and gave him hell.

Yeah, Orton's face turn worked out well, didn't it? And yeah, lets turn everyone face and have them feud with HHH when they aare over as a heel. Biggest Mistake the WWE is making right now.

Dam, that fired me up

[Mike the Metal Ed]

I'm ranting now, but HHH is the cause of most of this. He's not willing to give up his main heel spot and that's killing all the up and coming heels. If I was a heel who was doing great in the mid cards right now, I would be like "Fuck" cause there's no where to go after that. Look at Orton? He was doing great as a heel and was set to become the top heel, but HHH is there, so they turn him face. Who was the last heel besides HHH to hold the Title on Raw anyway?

No other heel has held the World Heavyweight title since Bischoff re-instated it, but going further back than that:

The Undertaker: World Undisputed Title, 19th May - 21st July 2002

Or the belt itself...
Chris Jericho: WCW World Title: 9th December 2001 - Unified that night.

[tucsonspeed6]

Christian sould stay heel forever. He's the second top heel on Raw right now. He's funny, so why not work with that every once in a while?

Batista; Flair; hell even Snitsky's got a better run than Christian now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Christian is just a victim of circumstance at this point. When he got injured, it killed the whole CLB/Y2J/Trish thing, which was hot. He came back, and as soon as it looked like he was about to start working a program with HBK (a program in which I think he would have gone over), HBK got injured. I don't really blame the WWE for it. They're trying to push him, but shit just keeps happening. Eventually, everything will work out great for him. Maybe when Michaels comes back.

[Anybody Thrilla]

He's funny, so why not work with that every once in a while?

It seems that it's really hard to get a comedic-based act over as a main eventer. I'm not exactly sure what it is.

[Loose Cannon]

I seriously don't know how the WWE is trying to help him by making Edge beat the shit out of him and them throw him into the steel steps. And what to they have Christian do because of that? Oh yeah, nothing.

[Anybody Thrilla]

They're just keeping Christian's face on TV until another opportunity rolls around. Patience is a virtue.

[Loose Cannon]

Keeping his face on TV is one thing. Keeping his face on TV to make him look weak as hell in another. I've seen this about a hundred times before. Guys get built up, fans get behind the guy, guy gets made to look weak, fans lose interest. And then you try to build him up again after knocking him down and you can't

[Gouda]

What the hell. I just saw Raw.

I want to know what the freaking hell was up with Christian falling down several times in that match. That couldn't have been an accident.

Also I am angry that they have jobbed Christian yet AGAIN. I mean, all Christian is nowadays is "heel guy who cares about the Intercontinental Title for some reason and always loses"

Seriously. He's just the freaking whipping boy for whoever the face Intercontinental Champ is.

But.... BUT. I can see some salvation.

If they have Christian snap, it would be great. Remember when Jericho was Undisputed Champ before HHH and he would do those promos about how he is not a joke and would get all worked up? I loved that.

Since nobody remembers Jericho's reign I say give that gimmick to Christian. Have him beat down guys and be really agressive to prove his point. A Randy Orton-like IC title run would be good too.

[John la Rock]

Wow, check this out. Okay. First of all, you say HHH is "10000000000 X better as a heel and the most established star in the WWE." Well NO SHIT. WHEN YOU BOOK A GUY LIKE HHH HAS BEEN BOOKED FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS TO DOMINATE EVERYOBDY, OF COURSE HE'S GOING TO BE THE MOST ESTABLISHED GUY. That's my whole god dam point. HHH, Vince and whomever else is back in that lockeroom control this fucking company and don't let anybody else get a shot as a main heel. Are you saying that nobody in the company can draw better than HHH as a heel?

HHH has drawn shit since being on top for the past 3 years. If you seriously believe that a guy like Christian, Orton, Kane, Jericho, (bigest bullshit ever when he had the Title) Booker T ETC.. couldn't replace HHH right now as the top heel and draw the same, if not better, ratings than him, you are mistaken. The WWE knows how to make people, they've done it hundreds of times before. It's a simple formula really. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know how to get someone over.

I seriously can't believe how you can say something like this. Why do you think Pat Patterson, maybe the best booker the WWE had, quit? He quit because he spoke up and said HHH needs to get out of that top spot and HHH got pissed and gave him hell.

Yeah, Orton's face turn worked out well, didn't it? And yeah, lets turn everyone face and have them feud with HHH when they aare over as a heel. Biggest Mistake the WWE is making right now.

Dam, that fired me up

Wow you really took a hissy fit :lol:

I'm saying that it is not a bad idea to turn a wrestler face to see what they can do on the other side for a change.

For example: Randy Orton

Orton was the top heel-midcarder on Raw when was best wrestler in the company during his impressive Intercontinental Title Run.

I do think that it was a big mistake to give Orton the belt and I believe the only reason he got the thing was because they wanted him to replace Brock as the Youngest World Champ in history.

You make it seem that Triple H cried to Vince because Randy was stealing his spotlight.

If anything Randy is becomming a bigger star and it's all because HHH took him under his wing and mentored him.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, I went off cause I'm sick of HHH being on top and not allowing anybody else have a chance and then to hear someone say that what HHH is doing (cause lets face it, he's the one doing it) is fine and great just amazed me. How can you agree with that when the shows ratings have been down and the quality has been down since 2001.

And it's hillarious how you keep mentioning "to see what they can do for a CHANGE" and then you agree with the whole HHH thing which is far from a change. What the heck is that about? Do you think HHH should turn FACE?

And it's safe to say now that Orton's face turn has been a flop so far. And if you can't see that, than I don't know what to tell you.

[Loose Cannon]

http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22075&highlight=Observer

Here read that if you didn't already

[Mr. JL]

I don't know.

Randy Orton kept getting bigger and bigger and BIGGER as a heel and then he loses the Intercontinental Championship to Edge all of a sudden. Next thing you know he's fighting Benoit for the World Heavyweight Championship in a poorly done build up because the move did not make any sense. He wins tthe World Hevayweight Championship and then he loses it a month later. Now he is a sucky regular face, imo.

---------------------------
I lost interest in Orton when he lost the Intercontinental Championship. JR and the King kept making references to how he is the longest reigning Intercontinental Championship in years and they kept making references to the Honky Tonk Man's record as if Orton's Intercontinental Championship run was leading to break the record. Then they give the title to Edge when know body gave a fuck about him.

Orton was Raw (he still is now but it is just not the same) for the last few months of his IC title reign. Then, the bad booking occured. And whatever. I have not really been impressed.

[John la Rock]

Yeah, I went off cause I'm sick of HHH being on top and not allowing anybody else have a chance and then to hear someone say that what HHH is doing (cause lets face it, he's the one doing it) is fine and great just amazed me. How can you agree with that when the shows ratings have been down and the quality has been down since 2001.



You do realize that Vince McMahon has the FINAL SAY on everything in the WWE so it isn't fair to blame HHH.

I highly doubt that fans stopped watching Raw because HHH was champion. I think the roster split is what really brought the numbers down.

I don't blame HHH for bad business. I blame Vince and the writers

[Mr. JL]

You do realize that Vince McMahon has the FINAL SAY on everything in the WWE so it isn't fair to blame HHH.

I highly doubt that fans stopped watching Raw because HHH was champion. I think the roster split is what really brought the numbers down.

I don't blame HHH for bad business. I blame Vince and the writers
I do blame TRIPLE H for all of HIS bad matches,

....especially in 2003. The champion should be able to carry anything and anyone to a good match. Yes, that includes Steiner and Nash because guys like Jericho and RVD could get the fans not to chant "THIS MATCH SUCKS!" when they fought those two individuals. In fact Jericho V. Nash and RVD V. Steiner were pretty good matches if I recall correctly,... and I do. :p

Triple H has been consistantly good this year but he has not yet been required to carry anyone to a good match.

But I do blame Vince and the writers for not seeing just how much Triple H does suck in the ring, when not put in front of a solid worker, and for booking Triple H over the entire roster for 3 years now.

[Mr. JL]

Bottom line is Triple H needs to Get the F out!

[Loose Cannon]

Vince having Final Say in things these days is just about short of a laugh.