T&A = Ratings?

[BigDaddyCool]

According to a few news reports off this site that I've seen, Vince is hiring more "hot chicks" to be divas instead of lady wrestlers. Which leaves us with I think Victora, Trish, Lita, and Molly as the pool for the Womans title. I mean what the hell. No one watches wrestling for the hot bitches, they are just an added bonus. What he needs to do is find more Trish Stratuses. You know hot bitches that can wrestle one hell of a match. Anyhow, say your piece about the situation here.

[BigDaddyCool]

BTW, I always feel really uncomfortable watching the segments that just have girls walking around the ring or having a pillow fight and I usually don't like to watch it. I have no problem watching Trish v. Lita in a match, but anything else, I don't like. Anyhow, I still think this is a dumb move by Vince.

[The Naitch]

yeah that really pisses me off too. What a waste. Too bad there are sad pathetic fans out there that do watch wrestling for shit like that

[Champion of Europa]

Watching the pillow fights and stuff really makes me uncomfortable. I'm busy telling friends about how athletic all these people are and how great psychology is and enverything, and then we get Stacy vs. Christy in a pillow fight. Awkward.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, wtf is going on here? Is it me or have like 15 girls been signed the past month? Everytime I turn around, there's like 3 more debuting.

[BigDaddyCool]

Watching the pillow fights and stuff really makes me uncomfortable. I'm busy telling friends about how athletic all these people are and how great psychology is and enverything, and then we get Stacy vs. Christy in a pillow fight. Awkward.

Glad I'm not the only one.

Also, it would be like the NFL hiring a bunch of new cheerleaders to boost ratings. No one watches football for cheerleaders, and no one watches wrestling for the non-wrestling divas. Now they might be able to move a few more calandars and posters and what not, but not increase buy-rates.

[The Naitch]

Yeah, so all the RAW Divas won. Ridiculous :n:

I gotta admit, the personal trainer RAW Diva on Smackdown (Dodgeball Queen) is the best one so far and she's my favorite. The rest suck. That Maria chick annoys me because she reminds me of someone I used to know.

Funny how they fired a shitload of talent, then hire a shitload of divas.

[CYCLOPTERSAURUS]

And this is especially disturbing because it came after all these recent roster cuts. Absolutely ridiculous. The only one that doesn't actually piss me off is the "personal trainer" on Smackdown. Vince McMahon is an idiot.

[loopydate]

Yeah, they fire Jazz and Gail Kim (Kim, BTW, being - as BDC put it - a hot bitch), then bring in women who can't go.

Vince, I hate to break it to you, but the reason ratings are lower now than they were in 1999 is not because we miss Sable's hand-painted bikini.

[Jorgha]

Being a woman I thought that was the only reason that I was annoyed by the Divas, but I guess that isn't it if everyone else is annoyed as well.

[Savio]

Yeah, they fire Jazz and Gail Kim (Kim, BTW, being - as BDC put it - a hot bitch), then bring in women who can't go.No she wasn't.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree. Why on God's green Earth did they find the need to release Gail Kim, who is hot, work the mic and can wrestle extremely well for Candace Michelle, who can't wrestle, can't talk and isn't as attratcive (IMO) as La Felina?

Jazz had character and skills. I'd rather see her on my TV than Joy Giovanni (who has the skills to go out become a cheerleader, but that doesn't mean she should be a wrestling personality).

I don't have a problem with Amy Weber being signed, because she seems to have some acting skills, and could get some people over in the future. Not to mention that she said she'd be willing to train to become a real wrestler (not just Stacy Keibler it and learn the basics).

Michelle McCool wouldn't be my first choice, but right now she's almost serving as an interviewer, so it's all good. She could be an asset for the company at some point. Maria is hot, but she doesn't have first-rate mic skills, so they may as well have her serve as the valet to a wrestler. I suppose they could train her to be a ring announcer. Come to think of it, both Michelle and Maria would make great referees.

Anyway, I don't mind a few hot women being brought in for particular roles, but seriously, releasing some wrestlers then hiring them is ridiculous. I seriously feel sorry for any guy who goes "They have moderately hot women on WWE now, I'm going to become a loyal viewer!", and it embarasses me to see fans in attendance and the commentators (especially Jerry and Michael Cole) trying to put it over like they're getting laid by these women, because they're having a *Gasp* Pillow Fight!

Give what little T&A women they should hire, give them non-screen dominant roles, have them cover up so they look hot, but still retain a type of respectable quality to themselves, and let them do something for the overall product instead of a 12-year old's penis.

[mike627]

Honestly, why not just kill off the womans title instead of draging out this slow death.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Honestly, why not just kill off the womans title instead of draging out this slow death.

I don't think the title will die, but I think it is being tested by the WWE. Bring in Alexis Laree in a hurry. As well as at leats two other OVW women. And for the love of God, please rehire Gail Kim. :mad:

[Azriel]

Yeah, Vince is being a tad hypocritical there. Granted, Jazz wasn't the most attractive thing on two legs, but she was about as agressive as any of the other male wrestlers and she brought a special quality to the woman's division. With Gail, you had another potential Trish Stratus: a hot girl that could wrestle her ass off. I really hope they rehire her soon.

[Champion of Europa]

Melina is good times though. She was in OVW as Johnny Nitro's girlfriend.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, Vince is being a tad hypocritical there. Granted, Jazz wasn't the most attractive thing on two legs, but she was about as agressive as any of the other male wrestlers and she brought a special quality to the woman's division. With Gail, you had another potential Trish Stratus: a hot girl that could wrestle her ass off. I really hope they rehire her soon.

Exactly. And you know the WWE is eventually going to bring in that not-as-attractive-angry-psychotic heel woman again. I really hope Jacqueline, Jazz, Nidia & Gail Kim end up in TNA with Traci Brooks and a few other women wrestlers and show the WWE how a women's division is done. They're already ahead in cruiserweight and tag teams.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Melina is good times though. She was in OVW as Johnny Nitro's girlfriend.

Definately. I'm assuming she could wrestle. I would honestly mar out if Johnny Nitro came back with Danny Inferno and powerbombed a few women, and Nitro hit a few Standing Shooting Star Presses, then it turns out Melina organised it because she's involved in a relationship with Nitro, and is sick with all this useless T&A.

I'm also wondering why Ivory isn't wrestling. I know she wants to move her focus to her broadcasting abilities, but maybe she should take some time off from that with "her comments" maybe hindering it a bit. She's also extremely talented, and putting her in the division could only be a good thing, IMO.

[The Naitch]

Is Melina hispanic?

[Kane Knight]

BTW, I always feel really uncomfortable watching the segments that just have girls walking around the ring or having a pillow fight and I usually don't like to watch it. I have no problem watching Trish v. Lita in a match, but anything else, I don't like. Anyhow, I still think this is a dumb move by Vince.
It's supposed to be a turn on.

It gets a decent reaction, which is kind of sad.

T&A sells. The question is, does it sell wrestling? I'd argue no. And if Vince thought that was true, why would they push Snitsky? ;)

[SuperSlim]

what they need are more girls like Victoria in the WWE.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, now it makes even less since to have fired Gail Kim who is hot, can wrestle, and isn't injured.

[Innovator]

It seems like everytime I try to make someone watch RAW or Smackdown with me, the one segment thats always on is a stupid diva pillow fight or strip show. This is Vince trying to get back the 18-34 demographic.

I mean WWE stands for World WRESTLING Entertainment right? Wrestling?

[Azriel]

Unfortunately Innovator the emphasis has been on Entertainment since day one.

[Gouda]

I think it's just sad... Think about how all those people who got cut must feel. Not nly do they feel bad that they were cut but they probably feel even worse when they see that they've been replaced by a bajillion crappy divas.

And I as well feel uncomfortable with all these segments as my dad watches wrestling too, and as does my brother. So we're sitting there and Jerry Lawler is going "PILLOW FIGHT! PUPPIES!! ADADAJDADMACJFOGJKG!!!!"

When these diva segments actually come on though we always change the channel....and we don't even change the channel during commercials.

Ratings? Hardly.

[John la Rock]

Well I guess this means more head for Vince :shifty:

[Hardkore Kidd J]

I completely understand wrestling fans don't want eye candy they want wrestling. At least when they fired Jazz and Kim get some women who can actually I don't know wrestle. I swear if they fire Molly for another hot girl I swear I am going to flip the fuck out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

BTW, what makes Vince think his women are so hot they're going to draw. I mean sure they're attractive, but they aren't exactly nude, and they aren't exactly in the top hundred attractive women in the world. What makes Vince think that these people, who compete with more raunchy and more marketted women around the media world, are going to draw fans to a wrestling promotion?

I hope this is just for a Diva's DVD, and most of them die out afterwards. No offense to any of these ladies, but we don't want to see you just because you're hot. It's been said already, and by me several time, but hire your Gail Kims, Molly Hollys, Trishs, Victorias and even your Litas. Attractive and/or respectable women who wrestle well will draw MUCH better than hot women who are their insulting who we are as people (What makes Vince think that every wrestling fan and/or teenager wants to see low-raunch activities that don't even give us ideas, performed by people who think they'r emuch hotter than they actually are?).

It pained me to see Randy Orton pretend to be wowed by Candace Michelle on his RAW a few weeks back. "Does this show off too much cleverage?", it really pissed me off that we were supposed to be drooling over that?

My rant's gone on long enough, but how someone looks is such an unsafe way of trying to draw. There will always be someone in another form of media that's hot, and there will always be someone in another form of media that's using sex appeal, but there will not be an endless stream of women with wrestling talent. That's what Vince needs to realise, IMO. I admit, I 've never run a wrestling promotion in my life, and I would probably fail miserably at it. But I can tell you, watching these women march around would make even 14-year old kids go "WTF? Am I supposed to be horny? Is this supposed to make me watch?", and why would they if they can just flick to the porn channel?

I really think the way the WWE handles its divas needs to be matured. "Ooo, it's a woman! She's got boobies! Ooo, she's taunting her body around!". The way the WWE books its sex appeal if so one dimesnional. Maria would get me much more interested in her if she was wearing a formal business suit cutitng a promo in a raunchy voice talking about her "man" (who she is managing), and she is pleased with him. Or even about her husband. I don't need to see her embarrasing my intelligence and morality. And is it just me, or are the divas booked as if they're supposed to be the only women we see in out life? Ridiculous.

[Nark Order]

T&A? Test and Albert?? What??? NWA??? What???

[Gouda]

Test and Albert = Ratings.

[Jorgha]

I liked T&A when it was Test and Albert. That was good.

Seriously, I do not remember this much T&A in the history of wrestling.
You know what else I never understood? The purpose or the Nitro dancers. Wrestling and dancing... uh.. yea....

[BigDaddyCool]

I admit, I 've never run a wrestling promotion in my life, and I would probably fail miserably at it.

I could make it work, and make a ton of money doing it as well.

[Mayo]

As BDC pointed out, the WWE does need more hot chicks that can wrestle, like Trish. However, does BDC not recall that Trish started out as the shittiest women's wrestler on the roster at the time? I agree that most of these girls will not be wrestling, and even if they try then they will suck. There is an off chance though that some of them can develop into decent wrestlers and give the women's division a boost. The girls that are there for T&A only are pretty useless though.

[The One]

It's sad, but to answer your question, T&A sells. Bottomline.

I still can't get over why they fired Gail Kim...see was damn attractive, just about turned me on. Plus she was good in the ring, and could talk...Unless she had some TERRIBLE attetude, I don't get it.

[loopydate]

It's sad, but to answer your question, T&A sells. Bottomline.
But it doesn't, really. I don't think anyone buys a ticket to RAW because they want to see a lingerie pillow fight. It's a nice bonus (if you like that sort of thing), but if you're paying for the T&A, you're wasting a lot of money. You go for the wrestling show, and the T&A is a nice little bonus.

[The One]

But it doesn't, really. I don't think anyone buys a ticket to RAW because they want to see a lingerie pillow fight. It's a nice bonus (if you like that sort of thing), but if you're paying for the T&A, you're wasting a lot of money. You go for the wrestling show, and the T&A is a nice little bonus.

How do I know it sells? My friend Philip would not watch wrestling, thought it was a joke, didn't care about Stone Cold...but he saw Sable and started watching every RAW...My friend Mark subscribed to RAW magazine to get the Diva posters that used to come in all of them (He worshiped Sunny)...my other friend Andrew has just about every Diva Tape, yet hasn't ever been assed enough to buy a WrestleMania...

Granted this was all when we were in Middle school...but for pre-pubesent boys, Divas sell big time. We all knew how to access porn off the net back then, but you have to remember for young boys comming into their sexuality, going straight to the porn is a big and sometime guiltfilled step. It does draw young boys to the market. It is a tried and true form of selling entertainment.

It is an insult to intelligence, except wait a second, like it or not, the Diva Search segments were some of the highest rated segments of RAW over the past year. Plus it dosn't take a brillient man to hear that showing close up of clevage gets HUGE crowd reactions.

Trust me, you don't need to sell a lifelong gay Professional Wrestling (not Sports Entertainment) fan that watching girls in tight clothing is annoying. I agree it is, but it sells, and that can't be denied.

[Mayo]

Trust me, you don't need to sell a lifelong gay Professional Wrestling (not Sports Entertainment) fan that watching girls in tight clothing is annoying. I agree it is, but it sells, and that can't be denied.You're gay? Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I just want clarification of what you just said.

[The One]

My sexual past is long and complicated...but yeah I'm gay.

[tucsonspeed6]

I mean WWE stands for World WRESTLING Entertainment right? Wrestling?


White Women Everywhere!!!!!!!!

[VonErich Lives]

Yeah, they've tried more skits and less wrestling, they've tried more wrestling and less skits, now they're going after the young male market w/ hot chicks.

It gets people to watch and spend money.

Problem is, the "true wrestling fans" don't spend a lot of money on stupid things. They watch the show, maybe go to a show or two, but they don't buy stuff from sponsers and order posters of diva's and all that crap, that makes the WWE money.

[Mayo]

My sexual past is long and complicated...but yeah I'm gay.Cool :y:

[BigDaddyCool]

T&A doesn't sell unless you are talking about an 80's pornedie (in the late 80's tons of crappy R rated comedies featuring T&A and some naked boobies surfaced, they are known as Pornedies).

Sex on the other hand does sell. Though, with wrestling, and the demographic they are after, it isn't just barely dressed women running around, it is much more complicated than that. Instead, they need more hot dudes running around getting the girls, making the dudes at home get jealous, and start working out and all the jazz. Then realize that they neither have the time nor the money (both being the same in some cases) to achieve the level of manliness one Randy Orton or Edge might have. So they kids at home figure, well if I can't be has hot as Christian, I might as well start liking him cause that hottest girl in my class likes him, so if I like him too, we have something to talk about, and I might get and date, blah blah blah. So, wrestling doesn't need to bring in more women on the show, they just need a small base of girls to watch wrestling so an even large base of males will watch it and get hooked.

All half naked girls hitting each other with pillows is going to do is bring in 40 year old horn dogs, and drive away the chicks that would otherwise watch the show.

They need to start thinking like an 18 to 34 year old male who can't get anything, i.e., like me. Or copy MTV, who tells that demographic what to think. Maybe a few wrestlers with the new rock star mentality of not washing or grooming and constantly whining about how everything sucks...you know kinda like how Edge is now, but he needs to get his hair messier.

So, somewhere in that rambling, I think my point is, get a small group of girls in the age range of 16-22 to watch WWE's product, and you will hook the 18-34 age range of males.

[Innovator]

basically a younger Raven

[Mr. Nerfect]

T&A doesn't sell unless you are talking about an 80's pornedie (in the late 80's tons of crappy R rated comedies featuring T&A and some naked boobies surfaced, they are known as Pornedies).

Sex on the other hand does sell. Though, with wrestling, and the demographic they are after, it isn't just barely dressed women running around, it is much more complicated than that. Instead, they need more hot dudes running around getting the girls, making the dudes at home get jealous, and start working out and all the jazz. Then realize that they neither have the time nor the money (both being the same in some cases) to achieve the level of manliness one Randy Orton or Edge might have. So they kids at home figure, well if I can't be has hot as Christian, I might as well start liking him cause that hottest girl in my class likes him, so if I like him too, we have something to talk about, and I might get and date, blah blah blah. So, wrestling doesn't need to bring in more women on the show, they just need a small base of girls to watch wrestling so an even large base of males will watch it and get hooked.

All half naked girls hitting each other with pillows is going to do is bring in 40 year old horn dogs, and drive away the chicks that would otherwise watch the show.

They need to start thinking like an 18 to 34 year old male who can't get anything, i.e., like me. Or copy MTV, who tells that demographic what to think. Maybe a few wrestlers with the new rock star mentality of not washing or grooming and constantly whining about how everything sucks...you know kinda like how Edge is now, but he needs to get his hair messier.

So, somewhere in that rambling, I think my point is, get a small group of girls in the age range of 16-22 to watch WWE's product, and you will hook the 18-34 age range of males.

That actually sounds good. :y:

I'm surprised how much of a female fanbase Randy Orton has gotten. They should use him for publicity on shows that teenage girls in America watch, to do publicity. If Orton came over and did a segment on Rove Live here, it could really help Australian viewing in Australia, as well.

I think marketting their wrestlers is much better than marketting their "not-even-in-fixed-role" divas. The One brings up a good point, sex does sell, but one difference between Sable and Candace is that Sable had a purpose in the wrestling ring, even if it was just serving as a valet to Marc Mero and Triple H.

If Candace did that, while training to be a wrestler off-screen, then I would have absolutely no problem with it. It's not the underlying purpose they have to hiring these women, it's the fact that they've sacrificed in more important areas that I think will hinder their profits more than aid them.

[SuperSlim]

the problem with WWE right now is that they are lookin at the now. Not at the longevity of it. They are not lookin gat the future. They think that hiring all these divas and firing all the good diva wrestlers is a good thing. In the future it will bite them and bite them hard and they would wish that they would have kept Gail Kim, even Jazz. Cause those new divas they hired are going to wear thin and noone will care about them after a couple of months, if even that long.

that was the problem with WCW before it crashed. They focused on the now and not on the future.

[Mr. Nerfect]

the problem with WWE right now is that they are lookin at the now. Not at the longevity of it. They are not lookin gat the future. They think that hiring all these divas and firing all the good diva wrestlers is a good thing. In the future it will bite them and bite them hard and they would wish that they would have kept Gail Kim, even Jazz. Cause those new divas they hired are going to wear thin and noone will care about them after a couple of months, if even that long.

that was the problem with WCW before it crashed. They focused on the now and not on the future.

Exactly. How long will it be before Candace decides to go do movies again, or Roewena decides wrestling isn't for her?

[crash99]

Exactly. How long will it be before Candace decides to go do movies again, or Roewena decides wrestling isn't for her?


Good point as well. :y:

[Kane Knight]

Yeah. T&A doesn't sell.

And those shows on TV are just incidental.

[Kane Knight]

Brittney Spears sells records based on her musical skills and her vast intellect.

[SuperSlim]

Brittney Spears sells records based on her musical skills and her vast intellect.


well that is partly true. he has the intellect to wear the low cuts and show some clevage. She has the intellect to do 24 hour weddings to get noticed.

it's just that in wrestling.. it should hold as much prominence in the ring as it does.

[Kane Knight]

No, but it does, because horny fanboys love it.

Does it significantly impact ratings? Can't tell ya, don't care. Sex Sells video games, sex sells music, sex sell the news. Why should there be some sacred protection for wrestling?

And for the record, I doubt Brittney's smart enough to wipe her ass without a teleprompter and 3 "dry runs." There's a difference between the intellect of the marketer and the intellect of the slap of meat being sold.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No, but it does, because horny fanboys love it.

Does it significantly impact ratings? Can't tell ya, don't care. Sex Sells video games, sex sells music, sex sell the news. Why should there be some sacred protection for wrestling?

And for the record, I doubt Brittney's smart enough to wipe her ass without a teleprompter and 3 "dry runs." There's a difference between the intellect of the marketer and the intellect of the slap of meat being sold.

While sex does sell, does it draw? Will anyone come to the WWE for some women that are no different to others in more obvious forms of T&A?

[Kane Knight]

While sex does sell, does it draw? Will anyone come to the WWE for some women that are no different to others in more obvious forms of T&A?
Actually, women fighting, even if it's lame catfighting, attracts interest. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's true. Of course, the fact that most of the women in wrestling are UGLY doesn't help.

[Hired Hitman]

I know what you mean CoE, when I say things that say the show is great then something happens that makes me feel embarrassed to watch the show. :o

[Hired Hitman]

My sexual past is long and complicated...but yeah I'm gay.
Just so you know, if I was gay, I would go out with you in a second you sexy piece of man meat :kiss: ;)