KOBE

[BCWWF]

Kobe is still the man and even though he doesn't have Shaq he is still the best SG in the league. He may not win this game because he doesn't have the better team, but he is 4/4 from three point in the first, so fuck you all, Kobe is still good.

[Rain Man]

Dwayne Wade is dirty

[The Miz]

Why did you make another topic?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Who said Kobe Bryant wasn't good?

[BabyHugger]

He is good, but he is not good enough to win by himself. Shaq makes a way bigger impact on a team than Kobe does. Kobe is a great SG no doubt, but so are 7 or 8 other SGs, the Heat have something rare in the NBA, a dominant Center.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yea nobody likes Kobe because he ran Shaq and Phil Jackson out of town. A winning combination. You notice how Kobe is trying to be like all cool with Shaq now? Looking like he isn't really mad about the stuff Shaq is saying and all that? Well that just makes it pretty obvious that Kobe was behind it all, and is trying really hard to look like the good guy.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah Kobe has been trying to apologize to Shaq but Shaq isn't buying it. Basically he would forgive him if he thought he was genuine, but how could you think this guy is genuine? His quote was "Yeah, maybe I should call my ex teammate and apologize for saying he paid women he had sex with to not say anything. Maybe I should do that."

Who would think that was genuine? Kobe is the most selfish egotistical guy I have ever seen in my life. Ran Shaq off. Ran Jackson off. Then he resigned and basically brought something up about Karl Malone AFTER Malone said he wasn't going to play for the Lakers because of Kobe's comments. Seriously, go buy your wife another big rock and go and shoot 40 times and get your 30 points.

[BabyHugger]

I think Dwayne Wade will be better also.

[The Outlaw]

Good chance of that happening.

[BCWWF]

Actually, Shaq demanded a trade because Jerry Buss said that the team would resign Kobe Bryant no matter what but was open to trading Shaq if they needed to. That is why Shaq said he wanted a trade. Of course Kobe had parts of it, but that is when it happened and why.

[The Outlaw]

Actually, Shaq demanded a trade because Jerry Buss said that the team would resign Kobe Bryant no matter what but was open to trading Shaq if they needed to. That is why Shaq said he wanted a trade. Of course Kobe had parts of it, but that is when it happened and why.
...

It was going to be Kobe or Shaq. Buss said he was going to resign Kobe for the long term. So yeah lol

[BCWWF]

I have no idea what you just said?

Kobe was a free agent, he said that they would trade Shaq if thats what they needed to do to get the money for Kobe

[The Outlaw]

Ok.

Actually, Shaq demanded a trade because Jerry Buss said that the team would resign Kobe Bryant no matter what but was open to trading Shaq if they needed to. That is why Shaq said he wanted a trade. Of course Kobe had parts of it, but that is when it happened and why.
They were going to keep one of them, that was already decided. Buss decided he wanted to keep Kobe. Therefore, of course Shaq was going to get traded.

[BCWWF]

Exactly, so its not like Kobe forced Shaq to leave, it was Shaqs disgust at the Lakers management moreso

[The Outlaw]

Actually, Shaq demanded a trade because Jerry Buss said that the team would resign Kobe Bryant no matter what but was open to trading Shaq if they needed to. That is why Shaq said he wanted a trade. Of course Kobe had parts of it, but that is when it happened and why.Actually, now that I think about it, the reason Shaq asked for a trade was because Phil Jackson was fired. Shaq was informed that Jackson was fired by...reading it on SportsCenter. :| So he gave Kup (or Buss? memory is failing me here but I think it was Kup) a call and asked what was up and he said there was going to be some changes made. Shaq then said he wanted out, because any change that involved getting rid of one of the most successful coaches ever he didn't want to have anything to do with. He saw the writing on the wall. Jackson gone, he was next, so he might as well have asked for a trade because it was obvious they were going to do all they could to resign Kobe and make it his team. He didn't make a big fuss about it, all business to him. I'm sure he was a little...pissed to say the least over it but he is a business man. He's showing who the better leader is this year so he doesn't mind.

[Kid Robb]

I know it's easier in hindsight, but it would have been better for the Lakers to retain Shaq and trade Kobe for a few worthwhile players who could carry the franchise past Shaq's retirement in a few years.

[Gonzo]

I would go along with Kid Robb. I think you can get some players that will help your franchise in the long run, but could also perform while having Shaq around for a few more years.

[BCWWF]

Actually, now that I think about it, the reason Shaq asked for a trade was because Phil Jackson was fired. Shaq was informed that Jackson was fired by...reading it on SportsCenter. :| So he gave Kup (or Buss? memory is failing me here but I think it was Kup) a call and asked what was up and he said there was going to be some changes made. Shaq then said he wanted out, because any change that involved getting rid of one of the most successful coaches ever he didn't want to have anything to do with. He saw the writing on the wall. Jackson gone, he was next, so he might as well have asked for a trade because it was obvious they were going to do all they could to resign Kobe and make it his team. He didn't make a big fuss about it, all business to him. I'm sure he was a little...pissed to say the least over it but he is a business man. He's showing who the better leader is this year so he doesn't mind.
Well we both watched the same thing on ESPN this afternoon I guess...


Your explanation doesn't really support the whole "Kobe forced Shaq out" argument either though. What it all comes down to is that Phil was gone regardless, which meant the Lakers were going in a completely different direction, Shaq got traded, the Lakers are rebuilding now, the Heat are a legit title contender, and Shaq is still talking. Everybody knows that he is better off on the Heat because the Lakers aren't the same team. He just took everything way too personally and because he is friendly to the media is being made out as a hero.

I like Shaq, he is hilarious in interviews and is one of the most effective players in the NBA, and now he could very easilly help lead this new team to the NBA finals. Its not very hard to recognize that Shaq thinks he is the best player in the NBA when you hear him in interviews, I have never heard Kobe say the type of things like Shaq does publically, its only through other people. You hear Woody Paige and Jay Mariotti saying that Kobe has an a big ego, but the way he has been playing and talking this season, to me Woody, Jay, Shaq, and Karl are the ones with the big egos and are the ones spreading all the bad word against Kobe. How about listen to his teammates and his fans?

[BCWWF]

A more direct response to Kid Robb and Gonzo...

The way I got caught up on the Kobe bandwagon is because people on this board were appalled that the Lakers would choose Kobe over Shaq, but to me it is a completely rational decision.

Its hard to say how good the Lakers would be if they kept Shaq and let Kobe walk. If they had really good luck on the free agent market they may have been a title contender, but its all really up in the air. Much of the Lakers success this year comes from Lamar Odom, who the Lakers wouldn't have.

I am going to assume that they still had a good team, maybe finish 4th in the West (realistically). They may have won another title in the next four/five years, but with the way the NBA is looking now you really can't say. I don't think they could dominate like they did during the three-peat because there are so many top tier teams now. Then after five years we will assume that if Shaq hasn't retired, he will be pretty ineffective by that point. Then you look around the league and Kobe Bryant hasn't even started his decline yet. He would be young thirties with a good five more years left. The talk on these boards is almost like if you don't have Shaq on your team you can't win a championship. Well a certain SG and SF combo won six together in Chicago a few years ago so I wouldn't say Kobe in incapable of winning another one.

At least in my opinion, Kobe is a step above T-Mac of Ray Allen or any of those other hot SG/SF types. I consider Kobe the third best player in the league behind Duncan and KG, and I have to assume that I am not the only one who thinks that (Lakers). So basically I think the way that the Lakers were looking at it is that if they kept Kobe, they would have a good 10 more years to find somebody to put him with. If they keep Shaq, they have maybe 5. Thats just what I think they were thinking.

[The Outlaw]

Well we both watched the same thing on ESPN this afternoon I guess...


Your explanation doesn't really support the whole "Kobe forced Shaq out" argument either though. What it all comes down to is that Phil was gone regardless, which meant the Lakers were going in a completely different direction, Shaq got traded, the Lakers are rebuilding now, the Heat are a legit title contender, and Shaq is still talking. Everybody knows that he is better off on the Heat because the Lakers aren't the same team. He just took everything way too personally and because he is friendly to the media is being made out as a hero.

I like Shaq, he is hilarious in interviews and is one of the most effective players in the NBA, and now he could very easilly help lead this new team to the NBA finals. Its not very hard to recognize that Shaq thinks he is the best player in the NBA when you hear him in interviews, I have never heard Kobe say the type of things like Shaq does publically, its only through other people. You hear Woody Paige and Jay Mariotti saying that Kobe has an a big ego, but the way he has been playing and talking this season, to me Woody, Jay, Shaq, and Karl are the ones with the big egos and are the ones spreading all the bad word against Kobe. How about listen to his teammates and his fans?
LOL yeah I already knew all of that but I did catch most of the interview with him.

Ok. Kobe and Shaq did not get along well. Shaq and Phil got along gret. Kobe and Phil didn't get along well. Phil gets fired. What would that tell you?

"When he would have a good game, I would say thats the baddest guy I've ever seen."

Shaq's comments on Kobe by the way. Just to kind of null your Shaq thinks hes the best player in the NBA.

[DaveWadding]

Well a certain SG and SF combo won six together in Chicago a few years ago so I wouldn't say Kobe in incapable of winning another one.

Exactly HOW MANY great centers were in the league then though? Ewing, Admiral and Dream? Shaq was RAW until '94-'95 (and then it was inconsequential cause Jordan was off playing in the minors, and Shaq went with the Lakers and they did fuck all for a while) so you can't say him.

Now there's.... Shaq, Duncan, Yao, KG etc. all these good big Center types who came in the 2nd half of the 3peat (or later) and then needed to mature enough to get to that level...which is where we stand now.

[SammyG]

Kobe is the best 1 on 1 player in the nba, hes dominant. and for all of u that call him a fag and shit, i think he proved u wrong this summer ok?? :D

[DaveWadding]

Kobe is the best 1 on 1 player in the nba, hes dominant. and for all of u that call him a fag and shit, i think he proved u wrong this summer ok?? :D
Hey, newsflash...

THE NBA IS A TEAM LEAGUE. So, who GIVES A FUCK about Kobe being the best 1 on 1 player in the league?!

Also, yeah, he's not a fag, he raped a girl...Now he's a pervert.

[BCWWF]

The Pistons don't really have a big man like that though, I mean Ben and Sheed are both real good but Ben Wallace is only like 6'9" compared to Shaqs 7'2", so it can be done, but that is a good point, the league is much more dominated by big men now.

[BCWWF]

Finally

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1961438

Noteworthy Paragraph

He also hits back at the detractors who question his ability to make teammates better, laughing deeply and saying: "How many times do I have to do that? We won three championships and people act like Shaq won those championships by himself, (like) he was the only player out there making teammates better. It's really silly. We tag-teamed it. (Ex-Lakers assistant coach Tex Winter) turned me into a playmaker and a facilitator. To hear people still talking about whether I can make teammates better, I just use it as motivation."

[Innovator]

Kobe needs to turn heel, him or Shaq...face vs. face doesn't cut it