New Mania Plans

[Loose Cannon]

*Credit: Torch newsletter

As of right now, the Torch is reporting that Orton vs HHH, which was suppossed to take place at Mania, will now take place at Rumble.

The new Mania Main Event for the Raw Title will be....Batista vs HHH :D :D

Also, since Orton would be left for a new match, according to the Torch, it will be Orton vs (ready for my mark out cause Orton might be heel here) The Undertaker. It will be an interpromotional match. This might finally end Taker's Mania Streak and give the rub to Orton. :y: :y: :y:

I like those two matches very much, especially if Orton works heel with Taker

[Drakul]

*Marks out*

[Loose Cannon]

shut the fuck up

[Loose Cannon]

lol, I put your post back Drakul. I was just kidding. :y:

[Azriel]

so, Orton going to SD then?

[Dave Youell]

Hmmm

Where does that Leave the proposed Taker/Kane V Heindenwank/Shitsky match?

Hmmm, I'd like Orton/Taker, Orton better be heel though. Can't see Taker giving the rub though.

Interesting though

[Loose Cannon]

oh sorry, it said it is suppossed to be an interpromotional match. Let me add that.

[Cool King]

This might finally end Taker's Mania Streak

:nono: HELL NO! :nono:

[Azriel]

Would be prefect if Orton went back to his legend killer gimmick. He'd be huge if he beat Taker at WM.

[Splaya]

LC I FUCKING LOVE YOU RIGHT NOW :love: :love:


Batista's gonna go face and win the title :love:


But the big thing is, if they let Orton win this, they could turn him heel. Notice how he has not talked about killing legends since his face turn. Well, he could cut a promo about killing the legend of Taker at WM.

[Loose Cannon]

:nono: HELL NO! :nono:

yeah, wouldn't want to put any of the younger guys over.

[LK]

:nono: HELL NO! :nono:
Well it is certainly a better idea than having Snitsky beat Taker at WM like someone said.

[Innovator]

Fuck, there goes Taker's streak. I really wanted it stay.

Whatever, at least it gets Orton away from the main event

[McLegend]

Innovator your such an Undertaker mark it's ridiculous.

[Disturbed316]

If Orton was to bring back the Legend Killer gimmick, who would be left? Not many people.

[Innovator]

El Gran Luchador

[RGWhat316]

Not a bad plan. But seems a little weird of how they would turn Orton heel so quickly. He's only been face since September, and has done fairly well with good pops.

[Shaggy]

I was hoping for Edge to win the Rumble and then face Triple H or Orton at Mania for the title. But I guess hearing Orton going back to a Heel and facing Taker is alot better. The fact of Batista Vs Triple H at mania might sound good on paper now but Im not looking forward to it all to much.

[Gouda]

Not a bad plan. But seems a little weird of how they would turn Orton heel so quickly. He's only been face since September, and has done fairly well with good pops.

Jeff Hardy pops.

I'd love for Orton to return to being a heel... and with it the return of the non jumping or telegraphed RKO.

[Eunos]

Im not so keen on the idea.

Id rather see Orton vs Cena.

Batista getting the title though at WM 21 = :love: :love: :love:

Ive always liked this guy even when most people didnt.

[Pegasus Crawford]

Of course, if it were to be Orton going over Taker at WM21, it would need to be a really decisive win for Orton. >_>

Well, the events that take place between the 2 brands at the Royal Rumbe will pretty much foreshadow the interpromotional matches at WM21 (to ensure proper buildup).

[John la Rock]

Well if Vince wasn't high on crack they could have properly booked HHH vs Orton for Mania instead of fucking Orton up.

Batista vs HHH sounds good to me though.

Altho I think that JBL vs Cena for the WWE Title would draw more money as the Main EVent

[Shaggy]

I think most fans knew in the back of there minds that it would be Orton Vs Triple H at Mania since they have basically been putting this whole Orton couldnt fight for the title thing under our noses and now he is able to. I think most fans were thinking that he would somehow get a show and it would be at Mania. But with the news plans here it seems interesting that they would change it.

[Corkscrewed]

:nono: HELL NO! :nono:
First time I've ever agreed with you. :lol:

Sorry, but remember, I'm a huge Taker mark. :D


Anyway, I would have done Orton vs Batista vs HHH in a Triple Threat to end that story arc once and for all. Tho Batista vs HHH isn't a huge disappointment either. ;)

[Tornado]

I would mark the fuck out if Randy pinned The Undertaker, CLEAN in the middle of the ring, after an RKO.

[Gouda]

Hmmm... You know... A Batista/HHH match probably wouldn't even be very good ring-wise. Especially with how long the match will have to be.

[Savio]

LC I FUCKING LOVE YOU RIGHT NOW :love: :love:
Notice how he has not talked about killing legends since his face turn.yeah cuz Flair sucks

[Loose Cannon]

I think Orton/Taker is perfect cause it gives Orton a ton of credibility back, which in my opinion, he's lost in the last 4 months. Of course Orton would have to go over. If he doesn't, well that would be WCW 1998-2000 booking.

Orton then gets a lot of momentum back and can chase Batista for the Title. Or you switch Batista and Cena and have Orton/Cena. But I would go with Orton/Batista because there is story there.

The Triple Threat was ok I guess, but really it doesn't do anything for Orton if he were to lose that match. He still sucks as a face and he would continue sucking. Turning Orton again is the right way to go. And HHH breaking an ankle or two in the process would also help.

[Volchok]

the question is though... how would you turn Orton heel to set up the Undertaker/Orton match...

[NoJabbaNoBogRoll]

That's easy...

He suddenly realises that for the past few months he's been sucking up to the fans, and where did it get him? NOWHERE! So now he only fights for one man, himself. SCREW THE FANS!

:roll:

[Heyman]

I like the idea of Triple H/Batista. *boner*


I also like the Orton/Taker idea, but I'd much rather see Orton/Rock (with the fans turning on Orton.....which ultimately leads to an Orton heel turn).

I think it would be kind of silly for Orton to do something "heelish" (which makes the fans turn on him).

I'd rather see Orton turn heel due to the fact that the fans side with the "legend" (whether it be Taker or Rock) that he's facing.

[Innovator]

Orton will have to be the heel, no chance in hell of the fans rooting for Orton over Taker/Rock/Foley/La Parka

[Aussie Skier]

Well it is certainly a better idea than having Snitsky beat Taker at WM like someone said.

says who?
Frankly, Orton is a waste of space.

I'd love to see someone like Edge go over taker.
Orton is so boring right now

[Innovator]

Anyone else think Mic Foley working Wrestlemania could lead to Samoa Joe coming to the WWE...he is working a feud with Foley in ROH. Could lead to some exposure for Ring of Honor.

[MVP]

Orton vs. Taker is a great idea, especially with the idea of Orton going over as the heel. He'd be a great heel to chase the WWE Title on SD after JBL jobs. Could you imagine a face John Cena as champion with a heel Randy Orton chasing him for the title? Sounds like good business to me.

[Aussie Skier]

I can't see why everyone is so excited with HHH VS Batista?
I think a good main event would be HHH VS Orton (again)
and then a match between Benoit and Edge.

as for batista...meh, i dont really care what they do with him, but not the main event of mania...PLZ

[Heyman]

In defense or Orton, I actually think Orton has been better as a face of late. Atleast the moron script writers aren't trying to make him "act" like The Rock backstage anymore. :roll:


One problem that the WWE has right now, is they lack top faces within the company. It's not quite as bad right now, but there was a time period where the heels were FAR superior to the faces within the company (like half a year ago or so).


As result - it seems like the WWE have converted their "excellent" heels (who get cheered since they're so good at being heel), into faces. Orton, Cena, Guerrero, Angle (before WM-19), and some others are good example of this.



The point I'm trying to make, is that perhaps Orton is better off staying face.......even if he's much better at playing the heel.

John Cena and Eddie Guerrero are also far better as heels, but the fans cheer them. At a point and time where the WWE (both RAW and Smackdown) needs top faces (to maintain equilibrium with the heels), I'd strongly consider keeping a guy like Orton.....face.



Truth be told, I wouldn't mind seeing Chris Benoit make a heel turn in the not-so-distant future. With Benoit as a heel, this puts him at odds with Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Orton, and Benjamin...........all of which would be excellent matches.

[Heyman]

I can't see why everyone is so excited with HHH VS Batista?


The novelty of it.

It's never been done before.

Triple H/Orton has been done several times now.

Furthermore - Batista is one of the few guys on RAW that hasn't jobbed to Triple H (or hasn't been "one-upped" by Triple H).

Batista/HHH is much smarter for business than HHH/Orton.

I wish there was someway that Edge could get in there, but oh well. :-\ Hopefully he'll win the title at Summerslam 05' or something.


In a lot of ways, Edge is basically in a similar position to where Randy Orton was last year at this time.

[LK]

says who?
Frankly, Orton is a waste of space.

I'd love to see someone like Edge go over taker.
Orton is so boring right now
Wouldn't exactly say a waste of space. For three quarters of last year it was Orton's year. Heel Orton was the best. Add the facts that I ain't been to impressed with Edge since he came back although he is beginning to grow on me again with his last few performances. I am liking him as the guy obssesed with winning the title and being total paranoid. Also, I think Snitsky sucks.

[Innovator]

Heyman you bring up a point that Raven made in one of his journals a while back while discussing the art of selling, something that not many wrestler can comprehend nowadays. When a heel is great at selling, he will get cheered no matter what he does for the simple fact that he's entertaining the fans.

As for Benoit turning heel, I'm all for the return of the Crippler. Even better if he goes off on Eugene and destroys him.

[I-Hate-You]

That won't happen since Eugene is pretty much out for awhile.

[James Steele]

I think Orton doesn't need the rub of beating Undertaker.

He is above that. When they do give that WrestleMania win over Undertaker. It needs to be somebody who is not a former World Champion and has not main evented for over half a year. Undertaker will do the job when the time comes, but Randy Orton doesn't need it and once Taker is beaten, he won't get that streak back.

[Loose Cannon]

Orton is a heel by nature. I see no reason why they shouldn't turn him. If it's broke, don't try to fix it. Orton's face turn has downright been awful. Batista just replaces Orton as the babyface he was to become and Orton turns heel now.

You also have Kane now as a face. Don't forget about that.

[Heyman]

Heyman you bring up a point that Raven made in one of his journals a while back while discussing the art of selling, something that not many wrestler can comprehend nowadays. When a heel is great at selling, he will get cheered no matter what he does for the simple fact that he's entertaining the fans.



I guess that's the million dollar question then:


Do you keep a guy heel if he's GOOD at being a heel (and being cheered as result), or do you convert him into a face (and even if he's not as "charismatic" as a face, he'll still get 'decent' cheers).

If recent history is of any indication, it seems that the WWE would elect to go with the latter (i.e. conversion).


Using Edge as an example, I'd argue that the fans LIKE Edge a helluva lot more than they did about 4 months ago.


I sometimes wonder................what would RAW look like right now if Orton had stayed heel after Summerslam? (and Triple H was the one to turn face).

Orton would get huge cheers, but I also think that the fans would "boo" him at appropriate times.

Think back to 2001 when Austin was a heel. The fans loved Austin, but they booed him at appropriate times. As result, guys like Angle and Benoit became huge faces when facing Austin.

Same for The Rock in 1998/99 when he was the Corporate champ. A guy like Mankind got enormous face pops against The Rock.




While I'm on this topic, I have to wonder what the fans really want in today's wrestling world:


-In the early 90's (Hogan era), the fans wanted to cheer "the hero"

-During the attitude era, the fans wanted to cheer the cocky free-spirited face who could defy authority (i.e. Austin, The Rock, DX, Jericho).


-In today's world, do the fans want to LOVE to HATE the "bad guy"?

Think about some of the most successful characters within the last few years?


-Rob Van Dam during the alliance?
-Lesnar before Summerslam 2002......and before his feud with Big Show that year.
-Hollywood Rock in 2003
-Chris Jericho 2003
-Kane circa Summerslam 2003
-Randy Orton before Summerslam 2004
-Kurt Angle between Survivor Series 2001 and Wrestlemania 19.
-John Cena in 2003
-Eddie Guerrero as a heel.
-Dave Batista at the current time
-Edge at the current time

Notice how all of these guys are supposed to be heels, but the fans love them anyways? Why not go with that trend? LET the fans "love to hate" them.


Why have "decent" faces in the WWE, when you can have TREMENDOUS heels? (who the fans "love to hate" soooooo much, that practically anyone would get a HUGE face reaction upon feuding with them). Hurricane vs. The Rock is a good example of this.

[Loose Cannon]

LOL Heyman, right before you typed that up, I was thinking the exact same thing about Orton. I was saying to myself how "why does the WWE always seem to turn a heel when there being cheered?" I mean it makes sense, but for once, they should just keep them heel and see how that works. They water everything down about the heel that made them "cool" to the fans. Take Cena. Badass, bad mouth, violent heel/ Now he's just a goofy white guy. In today's society, assholes seemed to get well recieved by people such as wrestling fans.

[Heyman]

Orton is a heel by nature. I see no reason why they shouldn't turn him. If it's broke, don't try to fix it. Orton's face turn has downright been awful. Batista just replaces Orton as the babyface he was to become and Orton turns heel now.

You also have Kane now as a face. Don't forget about that.


I don't know about turning Orton at this point. If the WWE wants to turn Orton, I think they should it in such a way that the fans FREELY "boo" Orton (as opposed to Orton initially doing something deliberately heelish).


I'm also in love with Edge's character right now. Edge and Orton have great chemistry with one another as well (wow - these last two sentences kinda sounded gay. :?: ).

If Orton turns heel, then it makes Edge less likely to win the World title. If Triple H stays heel, then a guy like Edge ends up 3rd on the depth chart. :'(

[Heyman]

LOL Heyman, right before you typed that up, I was thinking the exact same thing about Orton. I was saying to myself how "why does the WWE always seem to turn a heel when there being cheered?" I mean it makes sense, but for once, they should just keep them heel and see how that works. They water everything down about the heel that made them "cool" to the fans. Take Cena. Badass, bad mouth, violent heel/ Now he's just a goofy white guy. In today's society, assholes seemed to get well recieved by people such as wrestling fans.

I should know from experience. My stint on tpww casual forum in 2004 is a great example of assholes being loved/cheered. :D. :shifty: :p


One thing that really separated Austin and The Rock from the rest of the pack (when they made their face turns), was there characters stayed 97-99% the same.

-In 1998 when Austin won the title, he was still an asshole that hated everyone (and didn't suck up to the fans).

-In 1999 when The Rock distanced himself from the Corporation and became a face, he was still an asshole.....that didn't "suck up" to the fans.


One problem with guys like Angle, Guerrero, Cena, Kane, Orton, Lesnar, etc. when they turn face, is that they drastically lose their 'edge' (speaking of 'Edge', he's another example). What's worse, is that their characters change....and they start sucking up to the fans.



That's one reason why I'm a little afraid of Batista turning face. One thing that Batista *DOES* have going for him however, is that he's not overly talented on the mic (which actually works in his favor). With that being said, he can still cut short and meaningful promos, while letting his actions do the talking.

[Heyman]

That won't happen since Eugene is pretty much out for awhile.


Eugene should be a "Pepsi Man" type heel when he comes back from his injury. :shifty: :p

Seriously - Eugene is EXACTLY the type of guy that the fans would LOVE to HATE.

[Loose Cannon]

Once Edge gets his win over HBK at Mania, he's ready. I said that in another thread. If they turn Orton heel, (which I still think there's like a 10% chance they will) Edge can work with Benoit for a while and Orton works with Batista. See here is where HHH moving to Smackdown comes in handy. You trade Cena for HHH and let HHH work with like Angle or something. They'll just off set each other anyway. hehe.

Bring Cena in. It would be fucking awesome if they got Lesnar back on Raw. Let Cena work with Lesnar and go over Lesner for the pay back from 2003.

Meanwhile Orton/Batista/Edge do some 3 way thing for the Title at least allowing Edge to get a taste of a Title shot. Edge goes off to work with somebody else next.

Orton takes the Title from Batista at Survivor Series.

CENA VS ORTON LEADING TO MANIA 22. Orton Heel/Cena Face.

:drool:

[Heyman]

Once Edge gets his win over HBK at Mania, he's ready. I said that in another thread. If they turn Orton heel, (which I still think there's like a 10% chance they will) Edge can work with Benoit for a while and Orton works with Batista. See here is where HHH moving to Smackdown comes in handy. You trade Cena for HHH and let HHH work with like Angle or something. They'll just off set each other anyway. hehe.

Bring Cena in. It would be fucking awesome if they got Lesnar back on Raw. Let Cena work with Lesnar and go over Lesner for the pay back from 2003.



If that scenerio ever happen, then that would be FUCKING AWESOME..........for Raw.

Would Smackdown be able to handle the loss of Cena though?

If Triple H were to come to Smackdown for Cena (combined with Lesnar's appearance on RAW), then Smackdown would REALLY REALLY REALLY need RVD to "step it up" as a face (to fill the void of Cena's departure).

Angle could turn face as well (although I think he's just better off retiring), and Undertaker could wrestle more I guess.


There's Big Show as well.

This idea sounds awesome (for RAW), but it's a bit of a risk for Smackdown to lose a guy like Cena (and Lesnar I guess).......even if Triple H is heading the other way.

[Loose Cannon]

FUCK SMACKDOWN. It's dead weight. :shifty: Seriously, I hate Smackdown. Send both Guerreros, RVD and Haas to Raw as well. Just let HHH run wild on Smackdown then :y: Him and Taker can have some great backstage office battles.

[Heyman]

FUCK SMACKDOWN. It's dead weight. :shifty: Seriously, I hate Smackdown. Send both Guerreros, RVD and Haas to Raw as well. Just let HHH run wild on Smackdown then :y: Him and Taker can have some great backstage office battles.


LOL.

I can see it now.

Triple H (circa 2007) defeating Funaki to finally break Ric Flair's 16 time World title record.

The match takes place in a "sold out" convention center in front of 500 fans. :D


I'm not a big fan of Smackdown either (and I have seriously considered the idea of re-uniting the rosters on numerous occassions now), but........meh. The WWE sees it differently. While both show are in-tact, the WWE can atleast PRETEND to care about both shows equally. :-\


I still believe that the "advantages" from the roster split are overrated........and that all the same things can be achieved (with harder work) WITH a unified roster (i.e. more PPV's, split House Shows, most wrestlers still only appearing on TV once per week to stay fresh, etc.).

Guys like HBK, Taker, Angle, and Triple H won't be around forever, and so its not like they will ALWAYS hog the top spots. The one guy who eventually does break through the "fab 4" would be a helluva lot more 'over' than he would be with a roster split. :-\

[Loose Cannon]

LOL at Funaki. Hey since HHH is percieved as "god" anyway, let him go over to Smackdown and work with everybody to get people more over while racking up 30 new Title Reigns. LOL

And LOL at "Fab Four" I can see a real stable here actually. I have an idea too. So have HHH and HBK go to Smackdown and join up with Angle and Taker and form the Fab Four. Basically they just destory everyone on Smackdown until the point where Smackdown runs out of business and has to close down. Kind of like the nWo here except... this is a real storyline. And this would only happen if they really had to shut Smackdown down.

Anyway, they cut a promo on the last Smackdown about how they're done "here" and now they are coming to Raw next week to take that down. And thus guys from Raw stand up against the "Fab Four"

YES :wave:

[Heyman]

Triple H and HBK reforming DX, while adding Angle and Taker to the mix.


I can see it now.


Renee Dupree has Triple H beat.................1.....2.......Angle pulls the ref away and distracts him.

Taker then enters the ring from the crowd, and chokeslams Dupree. Triple H gets the 1....2.....3.

After the match, Triple H and HBK stomp away on Dupree, while Taker does crotch chops to the crowd.


Angle then gets on the turnbuckle and does a crotch chop to the fans......and then pops open a carton of milk. Angle passes some cartons to Trips and HBK, and they also celebrate by chugging some milk (while doing crotch chops to the angry fans).


Angle's theme is Chyna's old theme, while Undertaker uses X-Pac's old theme.


:p

[Shadow]

Question...what is with you guys and ending Taker's streak at Mania? It'll never happen so why do you guys hope it will? Taker will never ever end it because it's his thing. I agree he could give the rub to a guy like Orton but does he really have to? In my opinion, no. Orton can get over on his own without any rub from anyone.

[Loose Cannon]

Do you know what a "rub" is? Cause your last comment makes it seem like you don't.

[Mr. Nerfect]

LOL, I was the one that mentioned Gene Snitsky going over Undertaker at WrestleMania. That idea seems very unpopular, but can anyone honestly give me one reason Snitsky shouldn't go over besides "He sucks."? WAKE UP! A lot of talent in the WWE suck. The Undertaker and JBL, whilst not being wastes of space, due to being extremely entertaining characters, aren't exactly Benoit in the ring. Snitsky can at least put on a good Hardcore Match.

Anyway, I don't mind the idea of it being Orton to end Taker's streak. My only disagreement with this would be that Orton doesn't need it, but then I realised, he sort of does.

Since turning face, Orton has lost everything that made him Orton. He's lost his edge, he's lost his massive crowd reactions. See Orton vs. Edge at Vengeance for the Intercontinental Title last year. Orton was extremely over with that crowd, and they hung off EVERYTHING he did. He turned them against him just by saying "I don't need you help." MASSIVE heat for that one (from memory). Now the crowd turns against him because he eliminates Batista, or he just doesn't get it done in the ring like he used to.

I think RAW is too small for face Orton and face Batista. I think the way they should freshen things up is have Triple H retain the World Heavyweight Championship against Orton, then have Batista win the Royal Rumble (predictable, I know, I'd much rather see Jericho win, then Batista win the title shot from him, but anyway), then have Orton come out and say something like this:

Orton: Well, it's over. My journey for the World Championship is over. My odyssey for the World Championship is over. The WrestleMania main event is locked, Triple H vs. Batista, and I personally hope Batista kicks Triple H's ass. But there is no way, NO WAY, I can get a title shot.

So what am I going to do at WrestleMania? Challenge Shelton Benjamin for the WWE Intercontinental Championship? No. Am I going to challenge for the World Tag Team Championship? No. I'm going for something beyond a championship. I'm going for something beyond even the World Championship. At WrestleMania, I am going to kill a legend. I'm going to kill the untouchable legend, of The Undertaker.

[Loose Cannon]

REASON: Snitsky will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER DRAW MONEY. Beating Taker is a slap in the face to the wrestlers who actually have a career past Mania. Snitsky is a one year wonder if you haven't figured it out already.

[Loose Cannon]

Using an analogy, letting Snitsky be the one to end Taker's streak would be like when that women ended Ken Jennings streak on Jeopordy only to lose the next night :nono:

She ended the streak, but never amounted to anything.

Snitsky isn't going to be a World Champion. Let someone who's going to be the future of the business end it.

[Heyman]

Let someone who's going to be the future of the business end it.

LOL.

Good analogy. :).

As an asside, why have Orton end the streak? Since Cena and Taker are on the same show, why not just have Cena do it? One could argue that it would help Cena a lot more than it would help Orton (since Cena hasn't had too many "big" victories as of yet).

Have the two men go in as faces, and have the two men shake hands afterwards.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
If that's Taker's last match as a full-time wrestler, then it has a nice touch to it as well. If memory serves me correctly, didn't Taker kind of encourage Cena (storyline wise) when Cena first debuted in the WWE?

[Mr. Nerfect]

LOL Heyman, right before you typed that up, I was thinking the exact same thing about Orton. I was saying to myself how "why does the WWE always seem to turn a heel when there being cheered?" I mean it makes sense, but for once, they should just keep them heel and see how that works. They water everything down about the heel that made them "cool" to the fans. Take Cena. Badass, bad mouth, violent heel/ Now he's just a goofy white guy. In today's society, assholes seemed to get well recieved by people such as wrestling fans.

It really makes you wonder. Does it make sense to turn them if the crowds start cheering them. Obviously the WWE does something right with the heel that makes the crowds cheer them. The fans loved Cena calling their heroes trash, the loved how he didn't give a crap what they did, and they loved how he wouldn't be afraid of anything, and he would cut raps on the guys in the ring, fuelling them up, not that it mattered because Cena could take anyone.

I'd much rather see that John Cena facing JBL for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania instead of "I love being a tool to the WWE to bring in eight year olds that think I'm cool." Cena. I would LOVE to see Cena cut a rap on a kid at ringside, saying how they can't see him and how they're not cool enough to be seen in the same building as Cena. If the fans boo, they boo, if the fans cheer, they cheer. Why not have Cena pick out individual people in the crowd. Not zoom in on them, but just have Cena cut a rap about how they probably put out for tickets to see Cena because they can't afford to buy them?

Orton was so cocky, so arrogant, then Evolution betrayed him, then he loved the crowd? WTF? Why not have him just play mind games with Evolution, while having him remain the same Orton. Eventually, with the feud being handled right, the fans would be so used to cheering Orton that they're not gonig to stop when he faces another heel character. Making him play up to the fans was completely unnecissary, because the fans were already into Orton WITHOUT him playing up to them. Orton could have spit in Chris Benoit's face and still gotten a pop. The spit really could have become a signature of his. He could have really started spitting on referees, announcers and titles. I could have just imaged him spitting on the title giving it "new life" the week after he was betrayed by Evolution. I can just hear Orton telling us how this title meant nothing, because Triple H didn't hold it, Evolution did, and him spitting on the title is more honourable than Triple H wearing it around his waist.

Anyway, I just hope they don't ruin Batista when they turn him.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, Cena would work too. Batista would work. A couple could work.

But, since Orton does have the "Legend Killer" gimmick, I'm 100% behind him ending Taker's streak.

[Heyman]

I would LOVE to see Cena cut a rap on a kid at ringside, saying how they can't see him

:lol:

The way you said that sounded hysterical for some reason.

I just got a mental image of Cena saying that to some 8 year old and smacking him.


"You can't see me...........it's just your imagination". *smack*.

::kid starts crying:::

[Mr. Nerfect]

REASON: Snitsky will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER DRAW MONEY. Beating Taker is a slap in the face to the wrestlers who actually have a career past Mania. Snitsky is a one year wonder if you haven't figured it out already.

Well that's the thing, would Snitsky be a "one year wonder" if he ended Taker's streak? I can't argue with the money point, but some people say the same thing with Orton, Cena, Batista and Edge (although it isn't definate with any of them). I'm not "pro" Gene winning it, but I wouldn't have a fit if he did, because it means the WWE has plans to use him.

Orton, Cean or Batista would be a much safer route, but which one should you give it to? I'm leaning towards Batista, but Orton seems most likely to start a program with him at the moment. If Taker has plans to last another year as an active wrestler, he could always job next year to Batista or Cena.

Maybe you could have Triple H vs. Chris Jericho this year in the main event (I don't know why), then have Orton vs. Rock and Batista vs. Undertaker?

Oh well, I'm just glad the WWE mas something for Orton besides being a generic face chasing the title like every other generic face they've created on RAW.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't think the WWE gets it fully yet. I guess they think that since half the crowd is cheering Orton, they'll just turn him and make everyone cheer for him.

But what they don't get is when they turn him into a full fledged good guy where he's trying to get pops, you've turned away that same half now. And maybe more since the half that didn't like him to begin with can't stand him as a face eathier.

I think they will get that with Batista. All they have to do is give him Goldberg like Attitude when he's face.

And I know the writers aren't complete morons cause they understood it with Austin and for a little while with Rock.

[Mr. Nerfect]

:lol:

The way you said that sounded hysterical for some reason.

I just got a mental image of Cena saying that to some 8 year old and smacking him.


"You can't see me...........it's just your imagination". *smack*.

::kid starts crying:::

LOL! I actually think it would do good for Cena tot ake the sign of a kid, then "wiping his ass" with it, ripping it up and doing his hand taunt. The kid crying would be great (I'm not heartless, it would just make for character developement for Cena).

[Shadow]

Alright. I probably confused a hell of a lot of people with my comments. I apologise for that.

But I have to wonder if 'Taker would ever let anyone end his streak for anything. Even if the future of the world resided on 'Taker doing the job at Mania, I don't belive he'll do it. He's given alot to the WWE and the streak is something he's really worked hard for.

Also...if 'Taker did do the job at Mania...imagine what the place would look like afterward. There wouldn't be a place left after that night.

[Gouda]

Christian over Taker! :shifty:

[Loose Cannon]

Alright. I probably confused a hell of a lot of people with my comments. I apologise for that.

But I have to wonder if 'Taker would ever let anyone end his streak for anything. Even if the future of the world resided on 'Taker doing the job at Mania, I don't belive he'll do it. He's given alot to the WWE and the streak is something he's really worked hard for.

Also...if 'Taker did do the job at Mania...imagine what the place would look like afterward. There wouldn't be a place left after that night.

Taker hasn't worked hard, the writers have worked hard to book him to win however many matches in a row. It's not real, remember.

The name of the game in wrestling is "BUILDING" That's how business survives. Well, that's how it continues to remain interesting cause ith Vinny Mac's cash, it can probably survive a while anyway. But Remember a little company called WCW where the top guys never wanted to lose. What happened to them again?

You have to create new stars and it's the top guys who need to make those stars. Guys have to pass the torch at one point or another.

And trust me, Taker's streak really isn't that important where people are going to destory the arena if it ends.

[Heyman]

I don't think the WWE gets it fully yet. I guess they think that since half the crowd is cheering Orton, they'll just turn him and make everyone cheer for him.

But what they don't get is when they turn him into a full fledged good guy where he's trying to get pops, you've turned away that same half now. And maybe more since the half that didn't like him to begin with can't stand him as a face eathier.

I think they will get that with Batista. All they have to do is give him Goldberg like Attitude when he's face.



Good post. And I agree.

As long as the WWE doesn't alter Batista's character upon turning face, they should be fine. If anything, I'd like to see Batista act a bit more aggressively (like you said....a little like Goldberg....even slightly reminiscent of Ken Shamrock).

His match with Rhyno a few weeks ago for instance. I liked what I saw in that match from Batista, but I'd have him act even more intense than that.


The thing that Batista has going for him (that Goldberg did not) is

A) The lockerroom seems to respect him.

B) Batista has more depth to his character. Fans are accustomed to seeing Batista in lengthy matches (along with the short ones). With that in mind, its not like the fans would start "booing" Batista if he doesn't squash his opponents (as they did with Goldberg).


The WWE have the potential to strike gold with Batista. :cool: *fingers crossed*

[McLegend]

Yeah but is Batista ready to be the sent into the spotlight?

[Shadow]

Taker hasn't worked hard, the writers have worked hard to book him to win however many matches in a row. It's not real, remember.

The name of the game in wrestling is "BUILDING" That's how business survives. Well, that's how it continues to remain interesting cause ith Vinny Mac's cash, it can probably survive a while anyway. But Remember a little company called WCW where the top guys never wanted to lose. What happened to them again?

You have to create new stars and it's the top guys who need to make those stars. Guys have to pass the torch at one point or another.

And trust me, Taker's streak really isn't that important where people are going to destory the arena if it ends.

I just find it a little weird that you guys are so rabid about ending 'Taker's streak. But hey...to each their own right?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah but is Batista ready to be the sent into the spotlight?

I believe he is. Good worker, good mic skills, good reactions, good build, good character, good crediblity. I can't think of a bad thing about his guy, so it would be foolish not to capitalise.

[Heyman]

Alright. I probably confused a hell of a lot of people with my comments. I apologise for that.

But I have to wonder if 'Taker would ever let anyone end his streak for anything. Even if the future of the world resided on 'Taker doing the job at Mania, I don't belive he'll do it. He's given alot to the WWE and the streak is something he's really worked hard for.

Also...if 'Taker did do the job at Mania...imagine what the place would look like afterward. There wouldn't be a place left after that night.


To be honest, I'd be a little sad to see Taker JOB at Mania' (I'm a mark, what can I say? :)).

I'm not sure if I'd like to see a heel defeat Taker (which is why I'm not too much in favor of seeing a heel Orton defeat Taker).

The idea of Cena/Taker (face vs. face) sounds more appealing to me......with the two men shaking hands afterwards.

Taker seems to have a lot of pride in his undefeated streak at WM (as he should). I highly doubt that he'd want to give that up so readily......especially to another HEEL....where he wouldn't have the final "say so" so to speak.

Taker shouldn't and won't leave the WWE without pride. By jobbing cleanly to a heelish Orton at Mania (or JBL), is this isn't achieved.

With the Cena thing however, it is. It depicts a "passing of the torch" so to speak.


Taker has shaked the hand of Austin and Lesnar in the past upon jobbing. Cena should be the next guy to receive that honor. :y:


-Have Cena win the rumble
-Have Taker beat JBL in February.
-Set up Cena/Taker at Mania'.

[Fox]

Orton doesn't deserve to be the one to end Undertaker's winning streak at WrestleMania. I would mark out more for a Undertaker vs. Cena WWE Title match where Cena wins, but that probably won't happen.

Right now is about the time they should've turned Orton face; had him win the title at New Years Revolution, do the Triple H "thumbs up - thumbs down" angle on RAW, and have HHH win a #1 Contender's Battle Royal after John Cena wins the Royal Rumbel for Smackdown.

HHH vs. Orton with Randy retaining would be golden.

[The Ravishing One]

:y:

[PorkSoda]

Just thinking...Batista vs HHH would be good, but would it be good to have Batista win the title? I dont think hes ready and its kind of too soon...he'll probably just have a reign like Orton's :(

[Mr. Nerfect]

Orton doesn't deserve to be the one to end Undertaker's winning streak at WrestleMania. I would mark out more for a Undertaker vs. Cena WWE Title match where Cena wins, but that probably won't happen.

Right now is about the time they should've turned Orton face; had him win the title at New Years Revolution, do the Triple H "thumbs up - thumbs down" angle on RAW, and have HHH win a #1 Contender's Battle Royal after John Cena wins the Royal Rumbel for Smackdown.

HHH vs. Orton with Randy retaining would be golden.

I'd have rather seen Randy Orton win the title at Summerslam, face Triple H at Unforgiven, with Evolution turning on Triple H, Triple H taking some tiem off until the Royal Rumble, he enters, wins the Rumble, faces Orton at WrestleMania (Orton=Heel, Triple H=Face) and Orton retains the title cleanly.

It wouldn't have happened, but I could dream.

[The CyNick]

I think most of the top faces, like Austin, Rock and so on, were much better as heel, but they did much better business as babyfaces.

Cena is an example of a guy where, I personally liked his promos better as a heel, but I am able to recognize that he's the most over guy in the WWE right now, so you cant say what he's doing is wrong. He's the one guy who the fans seem to be getting into in a main event way.

On the other hand, Orton was a guy who should have stayed heel. I called the problems from day one, but the WWE didn't see it. Hopefully they do now, and they'll put him back as a heel.

As for Mania, Batista-HHH is a smart way to go, I just hope they dont screw it up, now that they have that match in mind.

Orton-Taker is a good way to start Orton back on the heel track, and obviously if he could take the streak that would be a good thing as well.

I also like the idea of Rock-Orton, in fact I like that one more than Orton-Taker, just because I think Rock would do a much better job of putting over Randy. Taker would lay down, but Orton would be selling his ass off for 85% of the match.

The idea of Snitsky ending Taker's streak is a bad one. Obviously Snitshy sucks, and shouldn't even have a spot at Mani, much less getting a rub that is 13 years in the making.

After Mania, I think they should move Orton over to SD, and start to set up a future program with Orton (heel) against Cena (champion babyface). In the meantime Orton could continue or start up something with Taker, and then go on to Eddie.

Over on RAW, I would bring Lesnar over there, and then start up a future program with Lesnar and Batista. In fact, I think a Wrestlemania headlined by Lesnar-Batista on the RAW side and Cena vs Orton on the SD side might actually do some great business, well it 'could' be.

[Mr. Nerfect]

After Mania, I think they should move Orton over to SD, and start to set up a future program with Orton (heel) against Cena (champion babyface). In the meantime Orton could continue or start up something with Taker, and then go on to Eddie.

Over on RAW, I would bring Lesnar over there, and then start up a future program with Lesnar and Batista. In fact, I think a Wrestlemania headlined by Lesnar-Batista on the RAW side and Cena vs Orton on the SD side might actually do some great business, well it 'could' be.

That would make a great WrestleMania. :y: