Moss wants a trade

[BCWWF]

:(


Its not official, it was reported through a second hand source, but read it and weep.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/10695548.htm

I dunno, it may or may not happen. Personally I like Moss a lot, he is the man and when he plays on his game he is by far the most dangerous player in the league (You could make an argument for Vick too I guess). I guess if he is going to want a trade, it wouldn't be too bad. SF got screwed and got what, a second round DP? The talks right now are stuff like

Moss for Adwale Ogunlea, Chris Chambers, and a first round DP

For some reason I could see the Redskins making an offer, something like Lavar Arrington, Laverneus Coles, and a DP. We'll see though, Moss would be technical in a Redskins uniform. Miami would be a cool place for him too. I just wish we could get Jason Taylor, because he is the absolute man.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Ogunleye plays for chicago not the dolphins anymore... I doubt he'll get traded though... either way, he's one of my fav players and I will cheer for whatever team he's on.

[RoXer]

There was talk in the newspapers the other day that the Cards might be interested in him.

Personally, I think that would be an aweful move. We have three great, young recivers in the league.

[BCWWF]

That was the talk on Minnesota talk radio for a little a few weeks ago, but I doubt that would be the case because the Cards don't have what the Vikings would neccessarily want and they already have a top tier wide reciever (to be).

If he does get traded, the Dolphins, Redskins, maybe the Ravens or something would be involved.

On a note about the Cardinals, it is widely rumored that Chris Hovan is going to go down there next year. Hovan was the Vikings first round draft pick in 2000 I think it was and was a very very promising player. Then these last two years he just hasn't fit in with the Vikings and just walked out pissed from the last day of Vikings practice. Many people think he can go down to Arizona with Denny Green and reach his full potential, which is damn good.

[VonErich Lives]

someone from the Cards said they weren't interested.

the nfl show on hbo, was talking about the Jets.

But I think right now it's all blind guessing.

The Pats took Dillon who people though was a problem child...

lmfao, imagine if Moss came to the Pats and changed his attitude...

[BCWWF]

Lol, I don't think Dillon was ever regarded in the same light that Moss is. IMO the Jets don't need Moss, they already have a Moss who is damn good. They just need to work with what they have, boost up a few role players, and they are a really solid team again.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Moss going to the Ravens would be perfect for him. He needs someone like Ray Lewis on his team so he keeps his shit staright.

[Triple A]

Jets :eek:

[Triple A]

Yeah I don't see why the Jets would really need him. Santana Moss is good news and McCariens has been Pennington's go-to guy this past season. But that would still be hot though.

[BCWWF]

Moss going to the Ravens would be perfect for him. He needs someone like Ray Lewis on his team so he keeps his shit staright.

I thought TO would have been a good fit in there too, if they had a WR like that, they have one of the best RB's in the game, add a top WR and a dominant defense, and even their QB is showing some signs of coming out of his shell. What if they got Moss and Boller pulls a Brees :eek:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

TO wouldn't have worked in Baltimore. He needs to be with a great QB, he would have complained about Boller and shit. Boller is being, I don't know how to put this, babied or some shit. Like sheltred from all the bad shit, like whenever his teammates talk about him they talk so high about him. Samething with there coach, I think they are just trying to keep his confendence level up so he can reach his potential. I don't think TO would be willing to do that haha

[BCWWF]

The Lavar Arrington, Laverneaus Coles, and draft pick was just an idea I pulled out of my ass, but I think it is realistic. That would be really big IMO, it would be hard not to take that. Do you think its realistic?

[The Icon of Elisim]

The Lavar Arrington, Laverneaus Coles, and draft pick was just an idea I pulled out of my ass, but I think it is realistic. That would be really big IMO, it would be hard not to take that. Do you think its realistic?
No I don't think its realistic for either sides.

I don't think that could work out for a couple of reasons.

I don't know if that would work for the cap since all they all have pretty considerable contracts (don't know off the top of my head, but I know Arrington is in the 8 year- 60 million range with a 20 million signing bonus which he still may be owed and I'm gonna guess that Moss has a huge contract and Coles has a hefty one alse)

I also don't think that Gibbs would go for it. Sure, Snyder would kill to bring in Moss but I think Gibbs wouldn't put up with his antics.

[The Icon of Elisim]

he is by far the most dangerous player in the league (You could make an argument for Vick too I guess)
I think you have it backwards there

[Kid Robb]

How about some irony, trade him to the Packers.

AAA: Did you hear about the Jets new punter? Ben Graham, an Aussie. He's a gun, just like Darren Bennett.

[VonErich Lives]

I also don't think that Gibbs would go for it. Sure, Snyder would kill to bring in Moss but I think Gibbs wouldn't put up with his antics.

yeah, Gibbs wouldn't quit.

That and Washington couldn't take advantage of his talent, they don't have a good QB.

Just thinking of teams where he'd fit good, not what they'd need to deal, cause figure it will be draft picks.

Ravens makes sense.

Saints.

Falcons.

Those are the top 3 that come to mind, good QB's, good RB and could use a true #1 WR.

[BCWWF]

How about some irony, trade him to the Packers.

AAA: Did you hear about the Jets new punter? Ben Graham, an Aussie. He's a gun, just like Darren Bennett.

Darren Bennett was an absolute choke this season though

[RP]

Edge and Stokely for Moss.

[VonErich Lives]

Edge and Stokely for Moss.

yeah, cause the lack of offense is why Indy can't win... :wtf:

Plus, you'd have to replace edge, and isn't Rhodes a free agent? and he'll cost good money...

so, you'd have Moss, Harrison, Manning, and Rhodes or another RB, 4 guys taking up over 1/2 the salary cap.

That was the problem in New England when Carol took over for Parcells and didn't really get corrected until Billicheck and Pioli.

[BCWWF]

That would be such a good move for the Vikings though, Edge, Bennett, Onterio, Mewelde, Mo :|

[VonErich Lives]

That would be such a good move for the Vikings though, Edge, Bennett, Onterio, Mewelde, Mo :|

yeah, a lot of things would be good for a lot of teams, but let's look at moves that make a little sense. Which doesn't just mean who can/will "handle" Mpss.

It includes who will/can afford him and he's a good fit.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Edge and Stokley is way too much for Moss. Yeah, hes one of the top WRs but cmon lets get serious.

You gotta remember, teams going for Moss are going to have to give something up. Like the Jets, would prob have to trade atleast one of their WRs and send over a draft pick or something. Unless the Vikings are gonna go the Bengals route and just trade him for 2nd round pick hahah

[The Answer]

Edge and Stokley is way too much for Moss. Yeah, hes one of the top WRs but cmon lets get serious.

You gotta remember, teams going for Moss are going to have to give something up. Like the Jets, would prob have to trade atleast one of their WRs and send over a draft pick or something. Unless the Vikings are gonna go the Bengals route and just trade him for 2nd round pick hahah

Are u serious? Edge is replacable as they have Mungro,Rhodes and Ricky Williams.Moss>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stokley

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I don't know about all that. Edge is one of the best running backs in the NFL.

[BCWWF]

The Vikings aren't going to trade for a RB, period. If they trade him it will be for a top defensive player, a solid WR, and some sort of draft pick.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Moss to the Jets for Derek Straight, McCarens, and 1st round pick

Nah just made that one completley up haha

[#1-norm-fan]

Maybe he can go to Dallas like he wanted to originally before they decided to go ahead and draft GREG ELLIS.

Dammit, this is gonna bring up 6 year old frustration all over again. I'm pretty sure Moss holds a grudge against them too since he seems to play all pissed off everytime he plays Dallas.

[The Outlaw]

Edge and Stokely for Moss.
You moron.

[RP]

Shut your fucking face.. i was throwin that out my ass moron. And no Rhodes was signed last year i believe.. and Yes Edge needs to be traded. Rhodes has Tony Dorsett ability, thats no joke. Edge is in his prime and we need Teddy Bruschi...errrrrrrr a Defensive star.

[BCWWF]

Moss > Edge

Translation: Vikings get Bruschi, Colts get Rushen Jones

[VonErich Lives]

Moss > Edge

Translation: Vikings get Bruschi, Colts get Rushen Jones

and what exactly are the Pats getting for Bruschi?

He's not going anywhere, he's his own agent, does his own deal and takes less then he could get elsewhere because he loves it here.

[VonErich Lives]

Shut your fucking face.. i was throwin that out my ass moron. And no Rhodes was signed last year i believe.. and Yes Edge needs to be traded. Rhodes has Tony Dorsett ability, thats no joke. Edge is in his prime and we need Teddy Bruschi...errrrrrrr a Defensive star.

dunno, a couple of sites show Edge, Rhodes and Dorsett as UFA's

[VonErich Lives]

Palaxico is a UFA... maybe Minnesota signs him and send Moss to the steelers for some picks?

[The Icon of Elisim]

yeah, Gibbs wouldn't quit.

That and Washington couldn't take advantage of his talent, they don't have a good QB.

Just thinking of teams where he'd fit good, not what they'd need to deal, cause figure it will be draft picks.

Ravens makes sense.

Saints.

Falcons.

Those are the top 3 that come to mind, good QB's, good RB and could use a true #1 WR.
Yeah I don't see it working out that the trade is for anything more than picks and maybe someone low on a depth chart.

If you want to work this out team by team...

You can eliminate the Bears, Packers and Lions

Falcons need a big play reciever but Moss isn't in their direction
Bucs have too many picks tied up in the Gruden trade
Saints are realistic, especially if they still have some picks from the Ricky Williams trade
Panthers are set at reciever

Eagles are set at reciever
Cowboys are overloaded at WR and need defense
Redskins are a possibility if they could rework a contract, but I don't think Gibbs would take him on
Giants would be a good fit, New York teams always have to make big off season moves to stay in the headlines and they need a downfield threat

Seahawks are overloaded at WR
Rams are set at WR
Arizona is set at WR
San Fransico needs a franchise offensive player and their recievers are all pretty unproven. On one hand the new coach is probably going to want to spend the money and picks on defense but on the other hand getting Moss would send a message to the fans. I could see the 49ers as a legit option.

San Diego could use him but I don't think its worth it for them
Denver needs a reciever pretty badly and I think its a possibility
Kansas City won't be spending anything on offense
Oakland is a strong possibility, always looking for a big player and they have the picks from the Gruden trade

Ravens need a reciever, and they obviously are willing to take on someone like TO so Moss isn't a huge leap
Bengals are set at WR
Steelers are set at WR
Browns need offense badly, I don't think Romeo is going to go after it though

New England doesn't fit with him
Buffalo is a good fit for him, they have good wide recievers but would for sure like a better one.
Jets are set at WR
Miami won't go after him, I think they are happy with their recievers and just need a QB and RB to complement them

Titans have a good corps
Indianapolis doesn't need him
Houston doesn't need him
Jacksonville doesn't need him.

So I could see him in New Orleans, New York, San Francisco, Denver, Oakland, Baltimore, Buffalo and maybe Cleveland

[BCWWF]

VEL that was all tongue and cheek stuff about Bruschi, obviously he wouldn't be in a trade for Moss.

Icon great post, very accurate in my opinion too.

[The Outlaw]

Shut your fucking face.. i was throwin that out my ass moron. And no Rhodes was signed last year i believe.. and Yes Edge needs to be traded. Rhodes has Tony Dorsett ability, thats no joke. Edge is in his prime and we need Teddy Bruschi...errrrrrrr a Defensive star.
Obviously it came from your ass because it was shit.

Never post here again.

[VonErich Lives]

Obviously it came from your ass because it was shit.

Never post here again.

ass, shit, rectal...

[VonErich Lives]

Good post tioe,

I disagree on a few.

Bears could use him.
SF would be more likely to go draft
Buffalo has a top WR.
Jax might want someone to replace Jimmy Smith.
Denver has Lelie who looks good to replace Rod Smith.
Cleveland - Crennel looks to be the new coach, I don't think he'd touch Moss.

But this is also all w/o knowing cap situations... which changes a lot.

I see Baltimore, New Orleans and Oakland (forgot about them) as the top 3 homes for him.

I think he could be a great fit for the Jets but I don't think they have the cap room.

[RP]

Dorsett isnt a free agent. He's retired and in the Hall of fame.

[BabyHugger]

Giants need a WR bad. Just saying.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Bears could use him.

Of course the Bears could use him but you rarely see a player traded within the same division, can't think of any big players aside from Bledsoe

[BCWWF]

Also regarding the Bears, they are probably going to be drafting a wide reciever this year. The top guys being Mike Williams and the guy from Michigan I think it is? If the Bears got Mike Williams then #1 WWE Fan might get some credibility next year, I'm not too familiar with the other guy.

[The Outlaw]

Braylon Edwards.

Beast...

[Mister Sinister]

Moss for Adwale Ogunlea, Chris Chambers, and a first round DP


Wide Recivers aren't the Dolphins problems anyways, I mean as great as Randy Moss may actually be, and yes he is a great receiver, He isn't better then the combined Talent, atleast by himself that the Dolphins have at Wideout...I mean Chris Chambers, a great but underused talent, Marty Booker, a Above Average Wideout and David Boston who will be ready to play next year....Plus Miami just needs a QB who can actually get them the ball and a running back, and you could have a Offense there that could rival the Colts....

[BCWWF]

Thats what the article said, I wouldn't think the Dolphins would still do that either.

[VonErich Lives]

That and the new Phins coach is from the Belicheck mold, there also good friends. I wouldn't think he'd take on a moss. In contract or attitude.

[BCWWF]

Moss to the Eagles for Trotter, Pinkston, and 3rd Round DP :shifty:

[VonErich Lives]

Moss to the Eagles for Trotter, Pinkston, and 3rd Round DP :shifty:

Pinkston has Aligator arms and I doubt you'd see moss in any deal w/o either a 1st round or multiple picks in round #2.

[VonErich Lives]

although, the idea of two of the biggest WR Ego's in the league on the same team would be funny...

[BCWWF]

They would seriously be unstoppable. Think of the running game :eek:

[BCWWF]

Moss won't be traded.

The AP has a new article out, but if you read much you can see that most of what Duante is quoted as was taken slightly out of context. Moss now said in an interview with KFAN that he doesn't want to be traded, and this is the first time he spoke of the issue.

I honestly don't think the Vikings have been seriously looking to trade him at any point. He probably wouldn't have even been fined for the mooning incident at Green Bay if Joe Buck didn't freak out.

Moss infuriated his teammates and coaches by walking off the field when the Vikings attempted an onside kick with 2 seconds left in the regular season finale at Washington.

And though he played with a sprained ankle in the postseason, he drew more ire -- and a $10,000 fine from the NFL -- for pretending to moon Green Bay fans after scoring the final touchdown in Minnesota's playoff victory at Lambeau Field.




I think infuriated is a bit of a strong word, unless he is talking about the Fox announcers. It didn't seem to be as big of a deal to anybody on the team as it was for Cris Collinsworth, Joe Buck, and the other guys on Fox. The mooning incident most likely had ABSOLUTELY no affect on anybody inside the Vikings organization...

"OMG Moss just PRETENDED to pull down his pants towards the Packers crowd...GET HIM OUT OF HERE NOW!"

I don't think so.

And finally, there is no deal out there that would offer the Vikings enough to go through with trading Moss. They will try to give you numbers from this year, but they coincidently don't emphasize that he missed games and played all of two snaps in some others due to injuries, nor do they mention that when he was healthy he was the obvious best reciever in the league. They don't need to get rid of him, he didn't hurt them when he was healthy, so unless something spectacular comes on the table I don't see him going anywhere.

[VonErich Lives]

Never say never, moss has no say in it. If they want to move him, they will.

Last poster to say someone would never be delt, just on his opinion not stories - Dave Wadding about Randy Johnson. Now, while Dave was right on the timing (it didn't happen at the trade deadline) it did eventually happen.

So, you may have just jinxed away your best WR. :D

[BCWWF]

This is a media story right now, and not so much an actual story though. There is little evidence that they are even considering it as of right now.

[VonErich Lives]

This is a media story right now, and not so much an actual story though. There is little evidence that they are even considering it as of right now.

and little evidence they're not.

No one new about the Dillon deal till after it was done, now most teams aren't as "media silent" as the Pats, but maybe people are starting to learn.

Also, I'm not saying he will be, I'm just saying we have little chance of actually knowing, just thinking we do.

[BCWWF]

Well the reasons why they would trade him are quite obvious now, so of course I am not going to rule it out, but he doesn't have the "Trade me or else" sticker that TO did, so he would still demand a very hefty price tag and the Raiders definately don't have it. Maybe the Ravens or the Jets, but its unlikely they would be willing to give it up.

Vikings will trade Onterrio Smith for Charles Woodson

[Rain Man]

He says he would like to play in Atlanta with Vick.. Don't know why? But I think he will end up in Baltimore.

[VonErich Lives]

Interesting, Culpeper said Moss is his friend but he doesn't know how much more the Vikes will put up with.

The the Vikes can deal him for some top picks and then sign a FA like Burress it would be huge for the team.

[BCWWF]

When has he ever said that he wants to go to Atlanta? He was quoted today...the first public comments since the loss to Philly...and what he said is that he wants to stay on the Vikings. Like VEL said, that doesn't mean he will for sure stay, but whoever told you that Atlanta thing was either completely lying or else taking something completely out of context. I am sure that Duante's comments to that AP reporter were not made in the light they come off in the article either.

Who would the Ravens trade for Moss? It would have to be one of their good defenders and a draft pick at least. It seems like they have a bunch of top guys that are really young, and I couldn't see them dealing a Suggs type guy.

[VonErich Lives]

When has he ever said that he wants to go to Atlanta? He was quoted today...the first public comments since the loss to Philly...and what he said is that he wants to stay on the Vikings. Like VEL said, that doesn't mean he will for sure stay, but whoever told you that Atlanta thing was either completely lying or else taking something completely out of context. I am sure that Duante's comments to that AP reporter were not made in the light they come off in the article either.

Who would the Ravens trade for Moss? It would have to be one of their good defenders and a draft pick at least. It seems like they have a bunch of top guys that are really young, and I couldn't see them dealing a Suggs type guy.

How about Ray Lewis? The guys on the downside of his career, and no, barking and yelling before the game doesn't make tackles.

Mike most MLB he runs holes and takes chances, last year he seemed to be off his game and even got knocked around a bit.

That being said, could be a great fit to teach the younger players on the Vikes and still has some good year ahead of him.

[BCWWF]

I just couldn't imagine the Ravens doing that, I would love to have him on the Vikes no doubt (Would prolly rather have Moss still), but he is still a good player and is really the face of their team. Who knows though, the NFL :p

[The Icon of Elisim]

I dunno how anyone could think that a Lewis for Moss trade would be realistic. Lewis is a leader and a proven winner, Moss hasn't shown much of either of those.

If the Ravens trade Lewis then their defense takes a much bigger slide than the loss of his stats alone would imply.

[BCWWF]

I agree. I don't think that Ray Lewis could do for the Vikings what he does for the Ravens, and likewise with Randy Moss. The name on TV today was Terrell Suggs, but he is so young it would surprise me. Who do the Jets have?

[BCWWF]

As for the Raiders, yeah he could do tremendous things for their team, but what do the Raiders have to offer the Vikings? I don't think they have the defensive player that the Vikes are looking for.

[VonErich Lives]

I dunno how anyone could think that a Lewis for Moss trade would be realistic. Lewis is a leader and a proven winner, Moss hasn't shown much of either of those.

If the Ravens trade Lewis then their defense takes a much bigger slide than the loss of his stats alone would imply.

Proven winner? Yeah, so is Dilfer then since he was the QB on the superbowl winner. Since that superbowl win, they had made the playoffs twice, winning the division once and haven't made another AFC championship game, I think they only have 1 playoff win?

That being said, while some would say you don't trade the "face" of your team, that may make you feel warm, but it doesn't make good business sense.

He's going to be 30 years old this year, had a great 2003 and good 2004.

He's value is incredible right now and how no where to go but down.

This is when you deal a guy, when they are worth they're most, yeah, he'll have some good years for another team, but if you can improve and get someone younger you do it.

I'm not saying they will deal Lewis of Moss, it was an example of who they could deal. I think Dealing Suggs for Moss would be a bad deal, and to be honest, until Bollier steps it up or they get a new QB, I don't know how much a top 5 WR will help.

I see Moss getting all pissy because Bollier doesn't get him the ball enough.

[BCWWF]

The value of Moss is too high for any of the perspective teams to take. They either don't have what it takes to get him or else won't be willing to give it up. I think he will stay, they draft a good DB or LB, and sign whichever one they don't draft and they'll be just fine.

[VonErich Lives]

The value of Moss is too high for any of the perspective teams to take. They either don't have what it takes to get him or else won't be willing to give it up. I think he will stay, they draft a good DB or LB, and sign whichever one they don't draft and they'll be just fine.

Untill moss throws another hissy fit and walks off or sprays a ref with a water bottle.

If Moss doesn't "grow up" he will go do as one of the biggest wastes of potential.

[BCWWF]

That is a laughable comment VEL. Him walking off the field offended the media more then it did his team. Before he did that he hadn't had any problems in like two years. And its not like walking off the field hurt the team, since the next week they upset the Packers at Lambeau. He isn't wasting his talent, he was playing at his highest ability until he got injured, and it showed because the Vikings were really good when he was healthy. To say that he is a waste of talent because of stupid off the field issues is just stupid.

[VonErich Lives]

That is a laughable comment VEL. Him walking off the field offended the media more then it did his team. Before he did that he hadn't had any problems in like two years. And its not like walking off the field hurt the team, since the next week they upset the Packers at Lambeau. He isn't wasting his talent, he was playing at his highest ability until he got injured, and it showed because the Vikings were really good when he was healthy. To say that he is a waste of talent because of stupid off the field issues is just stupid.

He's a waste of talent because he does things for himself and not for the team and his "off the field" issues as you called them, which seem to happen on the field hurt the team.

Someday maybe he'll grow up, some do, some don't (See: Terry Glenn).

[BCWWF]

Would you say the same thing about TO though? The stuff he does isn't quite the same as Moss, but he's had some off field issues too.

[Rain Man]

Would you say the same thing about TO though? The stuff he does isn't quite the same as Moss, but he's had some off field issues too.
TO isn't a thug like Moss

[BCWWF]

TO blew up at his offensive coordinator on national TV, talked shit against his team in the media all the time, repeatedly calls his old quarterback gay, demanded a trade, and has had various celebrations that have offended not only Joe Buck, but also other players and fans.

I like TO, but its not like Moss is some criminal compared to TO. He squirted a water bottle at a ref, big deal, I'm sure that didn't affect the outcome of that game. He was taken out of context saying "I play when I want to play". Thats bad but nothing worse then what TO did in his final years in SF. He pretended to pull his pants down as a touchdown celebration, that affects nobody. The two bad things that he did were walk off the field with two seconds left, which I personally accept his excuse, and drive down the street with some bitch traffic cop sitting on his hood. I don't think any of that has affected his onfield play as much as its getting credit for.

[Rain Man]

BCWWF you write too much

[BCWWF]

Well its obvious that you don't read into anybody elses opinions anyway, so why should I care if you dislike my posting style?

[Rain Man]

Who said I disliked anything??

[BCWWF]

I don't know, I just felt like acting like a dick.

[Rain Man]

BCWWF your a fucking smart guy I'm just a lazy fuck who can't read because I'm from Philadelphia.. So that is why I'm a dick

[BCWWF]

I thought you were VEL, sorry :hehe:

[Rain Man]

I hope I'm not like VEL who makes everyone want to put a gun to their head when I post anything

[BCWWF]

I :heart: VEL

[VonErich Lives]

I hope I'm not like VEL who makes everyone want to put a gun to their head when I post anything

Yeah, nice avatar.

[VonErich Lives]

As for TO, you have a valid point, If you watch them though, TO seems to flip a switch when it's game time and be all about the team, I just haven't seen that from Moss yet, and no, I don't watch every Vikes game, and yeah "this didn't effect and this was taken out of context" thats one way to spin things.

I've never seen or heard of TO walking off the field, and I think there's a difference between being a media-hog and doing things detrimental to yourself/team (hitting someone with your car).

So yeah, if I was an NFL GM right now, I'd take TO over Moss w/o blinking.

Maybe he will and is changing, (see: Irving Fryar) Fryar was a complete mess in NE, while still putting up good numbers he was an off-field disasters, arrests, stabbed, etc.... then he "found god" and had a great 2nd half of his career.

[VonErich Lives]

just listeining on the radio...

no words if he's on the block or not, but 3 teams are interested.

Falcons - Need a WR for Vick.
Raiders - Need a young WR and he's a perfect "Raider".
Jets - I never thought about it, Pennington and Him are both from Marshall, did they play together or different years?

[Triple A]

YEAH TOGETHER. MOSS WANTS TO BE REUNITED WITH PENNINGTONNNNNNNNNNNN. IT'S OVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[VonErich Lives]

YEAH TOGETHER. MOSS WANTS TO BE REUNITED WITH PENNINGTONNNNNNNNNNNN. IT'S OVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

yeah, and Curtis retired and Jordan goes elsewhere and you'll look like the 80's dolphins, great passing game and no running game :)

nah, of course it would be a great move for the Jets, but at what cost?

[Triple A]

I dunno. They have like the most (or second most) cap room of any team in the NFL right now. Dunno who they'd give up though. :rantL

[Boomer]

Unless the Falcons could some how magically remove their cap space....we aren't getting Moss. But good God...that would just be unreal.

Maybe we can give the Vikings Price. God he sucks. He needs to be a #2 reciever the rest of his career.

[BCWWF]

Thanks :D Or wait, were you talking to somebody else?

[BCWWF]

HE IS GONE! :wavesad:

To the Raiders for Napolean Harris (some name like that), 1st and 5th round DPs.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I am now a Raiders fan :( and WTF Harris blows nuts why wouldn't they have gotten Woodson and the picks. GOD I HATE THEM.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Winfield and Woodson as starting corners would have been GOLD.

[MoRcHeEbA]

instead they have Harris and an OLB and three FA linebackers :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Triple A]

Waht the fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. Gay.

Stupid Jets were gonna trade John Abraham. :mad:

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah no one wants his gay my knee hurts attitude :roll:

[MoRcHeEbA]

I bet the Vikings will be like... with the 7th pick overall we select a punter :roll:

[MoRcHeEbA]

and Mike Tice will then be like, were not resigning Wiggins' cause im gonna come out of retirement play TE and coach the team.

[AlphaBean]

Someone kill me. A draft pick and Napoleon Harris. Who will we get in the draft. Mike Williams? Pac Man Jones? Nobody will be worth Moss. Nobody.

[MoRcHeEbA]

maybe they will sign Burris now :( and maybe they will trade their other pick for a good player like Abraham or Woodson :shifty: or one can hope :'(

[BCWWF]

Harris is young, that is all. Isn't Woodson kind of old now?

I think they should take out the second DP, add in one of the running backs...

Moss and SOD

for

Harris, Woodson, 7th Overall DP

[MoRcHeEbA]

Moss and their First rounder for Harris, Woodson, and their first sounds SO MUCH BETTER.

[MoRcHeEbA]

who or what is SOD bcwwf?

[MoRcHeEbA]

Woodson is 28 BCWWF 5 year difference.

[BCWWF]

If they could draft Braylon, then they definately don't need to sign Plexaco or Bruce or any of those guys...

People are taking forgranted how much Moss did for the offense, our coaching staff may not be good enough to get through this.

At least he is going to the Raiders though, if it was the Jets or Ravens they would immediately become a legit Super Bowl contender, at least the Raiders won't be super good and make us look super bad. Hopefully.

[BCWWF]

Damn, I thought Woodson was mid thirties :mad:

SOD = Onterrio Smith...aka Steal of the Draft (Thats what he said after he was drafted, so its his nickname now)

[BCWWF]

Fuck you Dave, before you say anything :rant:

[BCWWF]

Fine Dave, don't make a jerk comment, :mad: what is this a face turn?

[OssMan]

Redskins are gonna get Braylon Edwards, especially with Laverneus Coles being on the trade block and whatnot

[MoRcHeEbA]

don't the redskins pick ninth, so if the Vikings wanted him they could just have him.

[AlphaBean]

At least Burleson will topple 100 receptions this year. :wavesad:

God, that doesn't even make me happy but it should. I love Burleson more than Moss, but I just recognize that THIS IS THE MOST HORRIBLE TRADE OF ALL TIME

GOD

FUCK
FUCKKKKKKKKKKK :(

[BCWWF]

So I hope we draft a defender, maybe the CB from Miami (He is the man) and then sign one of the big name WR's.

[AlphaBean]

Damn, I thought Woodson was mid thirties :mad:

SOD = Onterrio Smith...aka Steal of the Draft (Thats what he said after he was drafted, so its his nickname now)
Woodson is early 40s, but Woodson is late 30s, and Woodson is late 20s.

[BCWWF]

Maybe your highschool friend will make the team now :p

[AlphaBean]

So I hope we draft a defender, maybe the CB from Miami (He is the man) and then sign one of the big name WR's.
Pac Man?

I want Pac Man, Braylon, MAYBE Mike Williams, or that Linebacker dude. Heard awesome things about him.

[BCWWF]

Is "Pac Man" the DB from Miami?

Which linebacker? Is he from Texas or Oklahoma or something?

[AlphaBean]

Texas... and Pac Man I thought was from Virginia or something.

[BCWWF]

Oh yeah, I heard of him too

[BCWWF]

According to this guy on ESPN, McCombs is the one completely behind this, so who knows

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah a little Fuck you guys im outta here present like the Jets did with Selanne... that one the city didn't mind though...

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Adam "Pac Man" Jones is from West Virgina
Antre Rolle is from Miami
Carlos (I think it's Carlos) Rogers is from Auburn

Those are probably the 3 top cornerbacks in the draft coming up. Derrick Johnson is the "Linebacker dude" that you are talking about. He's from Texas and pretty nasty. BCWWF I dont thing there is a stand out linebacker coming out of Oklahoma this year, I think you are getting confused with their All American defensive end Dan Cody.

Damn I love college football :(

[BCWWF]

I thought Cody was from USC, or is there two Cody's? I know OU has a good d-lineman, and you are right that is what I was thinking.

[AlphaBean]

According to this guy on ESPN, McCombs is the one completely behind this, so who knows
Well fuck, the NFL better block the trade. I knew it was McCombs the instant I heard about it. Fowler said like two days ago that he wants Moss to stay. Nobody wants Moss out of here. But McCombs, what the fuck? I want him to die :(

[House of Pancakes]

woah. fucking crazy.

[Crimson]

Wow...now all Oakland needS is to sign Lamont Jordan and get a descent QB.

[Crimson]

And ESPN has said nothing about Minnesota getting a 1st rounder in return, just Harris and a 7th , and another late round pick. LOL if they don't get the 1st round pick.

[road doggy dogg]

Uh. You realize that the 7th OVERALL PICK IN THE DRAFT = 1st round pick, right

[RP]

Man the Raiders are gunna be f'ing good next year. I'm sure they will get either Benson or the kid from Auburn who's not named after a car. Kerry Collins is still a good QB and with weapons like Moss, Porter and a rookie RB. Look the fuck out! One more team for my Colts to worry about in the AFC.

[BCWWF]

I don't quite understand whats going on, if Fowler goes to McCombs and says "Don't trade Moss", can he take it back, or is it already set and is just waiting? From what the agent is saying though, Moss is excited for Oakland (for god knows why?), so it might be no good anyway.

[Into the Black]

:wave: Alphabean

Your team is really taking the dive isn't it? *AND* Tice is still your head coach.

[AlphaBean]

You're over the cap, we're 30 mil under.

You're gonna lose like half your O-line.

You still don't have any CBs.

You're gonna lose Sharper.

And you're over the cap.

So it's not like you can go nuts in free agency. :wave:

Remember the wildcard game? That was awesome. Four picks. :love:

[BCWWF]

Who is into the black? Some Packers fan? How did you know this in advance?

[AlphaBean]

Who is into the black? Some Packers fan? How did you know this in advance?
He's the resident douchebag cheesehead at Rajah's.

[road doggy dogg]

Good, you two argue while we know who the real beast of the NFC North is.


:shifty:

[AlphaBean]

Chicago.

[road doggy dogg]

Dude they released Jonathan Quinn. They're going NOWHERE this season.

[AlphaBean]

Gus Frerotte will lead them to the promised land.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Detroit is looking really good next year, and by next year I mean Madden 2005

[AlphaBean]

Hahaha unless fucking Wiggins is 90 and Burleson is 93, and Pep is 99, then I dunno. :wavesad:

Shame about Joey Harrington being a piece of trash.

[BCWWF]

Good, you two argue while we know who the real beast of the NFC North is.


:shifty:

At first I thought he meant Green Bay, but now that I think about it its probably the Lions, and realistically the Lions should be #2 in the NFC North, and they have potential to break out and be even better.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Vikings are going to end up better off with Moss gone next season, watch

[BCWWF]

without*

Right?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

No

[Crimson]

Yea Vikings will do ok too I think. They could sign Burress, and draft for defense. Raiders now have a bunch of egos, they will be a mess next yr.

[AlphaBean]

No, see. If all the good players go in the draft right away, then this trade will go down as the worst in history, hands down. Napoleon Harris? Please. We could have gotten farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr better for Moss. McCombs is a piece of shit.

[Crimson]

With the 7th pick you could draft Derrick freakin Johnson. He is a man, defenite impact LB . Or even Antrel Rolle alongside Winfield.

[The Outlaw]

RAIDERS

Gonna be nasty

[AlphaBean]

With the 7th pick you could draft Derrick freakin Johnson. He is a man, defenite impact LB . Or even Antrel Rolle alongside Winfield.
OMG we could get Antrel and Samari and pull the old "Conquistadors" switcheroo. Have #30 and 38 so that they can be mixed up or something. :love:

[Jerichoholic]

No, see. If all the good players go in the draft right away, then this trade will go down as the worst in history, hands down. Napoleon Harris? Please. We could have gotten farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr better for Moss. McCombs is a piece of shit.

Seems to be a reoccuring trend.

HERSCHELL WALKER :love:

[#1-norm-fan]

Chicago.

:yes:

[The Gooch]

No matter which way you slice it the Vikes got hosed on the trade. Draft picks are always a gamble. Some kids play great in college and do fuck all in the NFL. No matter what kind of a headcase Moss may be, trading arguably the best receiver in the league for an average player and a gamble is just plain stupid. Sure they freed up some cash, but in my opinion that cash was being pretty well spent. Even as a Packers fan I must admit I am disappointed.

[AlphaBean]

I wouldn't be surprised if Red McCombs and Al Davis are friends.

There has to be an explanation why Red did such a horrible thing. Moss WAS the Vikings. :(

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Moss WAS the Vikings. :(That's the problem, banking so much on one player is bad news. Teams that don't do that win, aka Patriots, Eagles, Steelers etc

[Gonzo]

I will laugh when the Vikings do better without him.

[AlphaBean]

That's the problem, banking so much on one player is bad news. Teams that don't do that win, aka Patriots, Eagles, Steelers etc
I'd rather have Vince Carter healthy dropping dunks all over the place, than having the Detroit Pistons, from an owner's standpoint.

[AlphaBean]

I will laugh when the Vikings do better without him.
Napoleon fucking Harris though? That's the thing. We could at least have gotten Arrington or Adalius Thomas. Dunno. Or maybe a higher draft pick than #7 so we could have gotten Braylon Edwards. But Napoleon Harris?

When Kendrell Bell and Ed Hartwell are both free agents? When Chris Claiborne wanted to move to MLB? When EJ Henderson should be at least serviceable next season?

Napoleon Harris? It boggles my mind.

There are no players in the draft with the talent Moss has. Nowhere close.

But I won't tell you that the Vikings will not do better without Moss. Last season left Pep with a chip on his shoulder. He will be MVP next season.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Moss is wearing #18 in Oakland BTW..In case any of you where wondering

They can still get Edwards with the #7 pick probably

[AlphaBean]

That's assuming that the QBs and RBs and CBs go very high though. I really doubt Edwards will be available that low. :(

[AlphaBean]

And to save money, that faggot McCombs is probably going to trade down.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

1. San Francisco 49ers: Alex Smith probably..atleast not chance of Edwards
2. Miami Dolphins: Cedric Benson/No chance of Edwards
3. Cleveland Browns: Aaron Rodgers/Def. QB seeing how they cut Garica
4. Chicago Bears: Maybe Edwards but I doubt it
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Highly doubt a WR here, since they got Clayton last year
6. Tennessee Titans: Could go Pac-Man here since they cut Rolle, or maybe a WR since they cut one of those too...I would say they are going to get a Corner though

I would say theres a very good chance that Edwards will be around

[AlphaBean]

Bears.

Azumah/Tillman/McQuarters/Vasher

Grossman

Thomas Jones

:'(

no WRs whatsoever, and there are no DL or OL prospects worthy of that high. It will either be Edwards and Williams, and I doubt it will be Williams.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Bears could go Mike Williams too though and there is a DLine prospect worthy of that high. Dan Cody of Oklahoma. Defensive end - kid is a beast. I'm not sure if the Bears are going defense again this year though after picking up Tommie Harris. I really don't know too much about the Bears or what they have. Didn't they just trade for Miami for a defensive end during the season? So who knows what they are going to do. Its tough to predict.

[AlphaBean]

Yeah they keep cutting DL though so who knows? But David Terrell and Justin Gage aren't exactly going to keep up with the WRs in the North, so I definitely see them going Edwards. UNLESS they decide not to get another Michigan receiver after Terrell was a bust. But I doubt that.

Either way, I just heard that Woodson just signed. That might put the Raiders over the cap, which might now allow the trade to go through. :eek: If that happens :rofl:

Maybe now Woodson will go on the trade, THEN it might be a good one.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Didnt they put the tag on Woodson though?

[AlphaBean]

Yea and they had an offer on the table they never expected him to sign, but he signed it. So there's a chance they're over the cap, making the trade impossible. If that happens, then Woodson will become my favorite player of all time.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

No they are getting Moss. Raiders will just cut some players or something.

[AlphaBean]

They'll throw Woodson on the pile. :love:

And Ted Washington.

:love: :love:

[BCWWF]

A friend of mine wants to be an NFL scout and puts a lot of time studying the draft and stuff...yeah he's weird...but this is what his opinion is on what will happen.

1. Sign Mushin Mohammad or else Plaxico Burress
2. With seventh overall draft pick, take DE David Pollack from Georgia
3. With second first round pick, take DS Thomas Davis from Georgia
4. Have Brian Russell and Corey Chavous compete for second safety spot
5. Keep Winfield, Brian Williams, and Ken Irvin on the corners
6. Resign Chris Claiborne
7. Move Kenechi Udeze back to the left end to make room for Pollack

If a big name WR can't be bought then take Mike Williams (Unless Braylon is still available). He says that the good LB on Texas is talented but not physically big enough. There is also speculation that we will take one of Auburns RB's, which would make me stop watching the Vikings. This guy thinks that this Thomas Davis guy is the real deal. Take that for what it is, but I trust that he knows quite a bit.

Personally, I don't know why but I think that Mike Williams would be a better fit on the Bears and Braylon on the Vikings. I could see Braylon not being good in Chicago, when Williams would. Who knows though, thats just a hunch ;)

[BCWWF]

I thoughth you were kidding

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S6578.html?cat=1

[The Outlaw]

LOL good god he was roasted

Also, Cadillac was ranked the third best "athlete" in the draft, with Ronnie Brown coming in fourth. I'm not sure what this translates to come draft time, but I just thought I would throw it out.

[Y2Ant]

I hope Oakland make the playoffs, and we beat them :mad: -edit- AFC, opps :$

I agree with what Stima said about good teams not relying on one player, just look what the Patriots have done without a superstar WR.

[AlphaBean]

I hope Oakland make the playoffs, and we beat them :mad: -edit- AFC, opps :$

I agree with what Stima said about good teams not relying on one player, just look what the Patriots have done without a superstar WR.
Patriots, yes. Buccanneers had more than one good player, and they won. Ravens, too. Broncos had a bunch of good players. Packers too.

The fact of the matter is, it's better to have good players, than to get rid of them for bad players.

Who the fuck is Napolean Harris. That's bullshit. It won't make us a better team, unless we get extremely lucky in the draft, which I doubt. And if we waste the pick on a WR? Then what the FUCK was the point of trading Moss in the first place?

Think the Pats would have won the superbowl had they traded Tom Brady? :nono:

And another thing that the Pats have -- they don't have superstars, they just had a superiorly coached team. I am sure Bill Belicheck could have coached the Vikings to better than 8-8 with the talent we have. Fucks sake. Our O-Line is amazing, we had three good or better WRs and a pimp TE. Our defense was talented but underachieving, and with better coaching we'd have been okay. But the fact is, Randy Moss is better than no Randy Moss. And he wasn't a cancer until Mike Tice lost control of him. Tice said he knew how to handle Moss, and I guess he forgot. And you know what happens when someone neglects a puppy, it gets out of control, starts pissing on the rug, and people get rid of them. :wavesad: Goodbye, best puppy in the entire NFL.

[BCWWF]

What people don't understand is that having a player of Randy Moss' caliber on a team completely changes an offense. It opens up the running game, it opens up the other WR, and it makes everybody better, including the coach. Now there is nothing special about the Vikings offense, even with Burress or Muhammad, there is nothing special about the offense. The offense will be completely different, and we are relying on Steve Loney to run it for us.

What I can't understand at all is that it looks like they might not resign Claiborne now. WTF? That makes no sense, trade Moss to get a LB since we only had one serviceable one last season, but then give up the guy who would be the best? Come on, if they do that there is a serious problem with saving money. If we draft two good defensive players with our draft picks, our defense could be a lot better, but I don't understand how adding Harris and removing Claiborne would make any sense.

We also need a kicker and a punter, and a lot of other special teams help that hasn't really been addressed at all.

[AlphaBean]

Fucking Red McCombs. Hahahaha Harris is taking Claiborne's place huh. Jeeeeeesus.

[The Outlaw]

HOLY SHIT

RONNIE BROWN WITH A 4 FLAT FORTY AT THE COMBINE :drool:

Clarett with a 4.82 :rofl: :rofl:

[el fregadero]

I was reading about these two cats who were clocked "unofficially" at under 4.25.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah Brown was clocked at 4.0. One of my friends ordered it and watched it. He said another guy ran a 4.35 or something. If the time was off it wouldn't be off more than a tenth of a second, so that is still impressive.

But, LOL @ Clarett. A 4.82? That's like my speed. :|

[BCWWF]

The lineman going 4.9 is what makes it all the better :lol:

[DrA]

I hope you guys don't take that forty yard dash shit seriously. Honestly, when was the last time you saw a tight end win a game for a team after a ran a 4.21 to the end zone? It doesn't measure how good a player actually is.

[AlphaBean]

Yeah the proof is in your production.

And not playing football in 2 years, and the last time you had a fully healthy season was your senior year in high school, well, :lol:. Yea Clarett is going to be the next SOD.

[AlphaBean]

OMG Robert Griffith was released? :drool:

Granted he's probably slow as a motherfucker, he's still the best run-stopper the Vikings have had in the past like 8 years.

[MoRcHeEbA]

hey did the bears "actually" sign Muhammed or do they have to wait till march 2nd or whatever? like if a player is released does that mean he can sign right away?

[AlphaBean]

Good question. You're not even supposed to be able to talk to player, BUT I THINK IF YOU ARE RELEASED IT IS DIFFERENT THAN FREE AGENCY, because the free agency period means a team gets a certain amount of time to make a contract offer before other teams can talk to you.

Of course Scott Linehan has been talking with Gus Frerotte since he became the OC in Miami, which should be fucking illeeeeeeeeeeeeeegal.

[BCWWF]

I was so excited when I saw Robert Griffith was cut, I didn't even know he was still in the league. Now we can rightfully take back our defenders that ditched for Cleveland :mad: We just should bring back Griffith and Rudd, even if they aren't good they would be classy on the sidelines.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Griffith had 157 takles this season, his only problem is he's 34

[Gonzo]

4.0 is Bo Jackson shit.

[AlphaBean]

I was so excited when I saw Robert Griffith was cut, I didn't even know he was still in the league. Now we can rightfully take back our defenders that ditched for Cleveland :mad: We just should bring back Griffith and Rudd, even if they aren't good they would be classy on the sidelines.
:( Corey Fuller. :(

[AlphaBean]

Griffith had 157 takles this season, his only problem is he's 34
And a liability in the passing game... though he can hit, and knows where to go. Don't know why Crennel cut him. He's an old, hard-hitting safety. Rodney Harrison is Griff's bitch.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah where did I say a forty time won games? I was just saying, a 4 flat is ungodly.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I hope you guys don't take that forty yard dash shit seriously. Honestly, when was the last time you saw a tight end win a game for a team after a ran a 4.21 to the end zone? It doesn't measure how good a player actually is.
Yes but running a 4.8 40 isn't going to get it done in the NFL at the running back position. Unless you are a brusing back like Bettis. Clarrett didnt even finish his workout he just quit after he got a shitty 40 time. That really hurt him aswell.

Did you guys hear Randy Moss's agent talking shit about Culpepper? Wow..so not only is Moss a dumbshit, his agent is too.

[Gonzo]

Actually a split second difference in the 40 may mean the difference between hitting the hole to the next level or getting tackled.

[BCWWF]

a 4.82 forty does matter actually, the NFL has the most elite athletes. They choose from hundreds of division 1 schools, and if thats the best you can do then its simply not good enough.

[AlphaBean]

If you're a smart back with good vision, good fundamentals, etc. You can excel without blazing speed, Emmitt Smith.

As long as you follow your blockers and hit the holes when you need to, you can do better than a fast player.

According to Madden, the two fastest HBs are Michael Bennett and Trung Canidate. And they both suck. One of them isn't even in the league anymore. That should show you what a 40 time means.

[Gonzo]

The 40 time is an indication of not just top speed but also acceleration. The whole idea is that once a human is running full speed they can run 10 yards per second. When someone runs a 4.5 for example the .5 seconds is how long it takes them to accelerate to their top speed. Of course there are exceptions to this. Thats why when someone can run a 4.0 they are exceptionally fast and can accelerate well because they run each 10 yards in a second, without having to take the time to accelerate.

Emmitt ran a 4.6, not blazing fast but not really slow either.

[The Outlaw]

Actually a split second difference in the 40 may mean the difference between hitting the hole to the next level or getting tackled.
4.0 and 4.1 is not that difference you are referring to though.

[The Outlaw]

A kid I played with ran a 4.2 (runs faster when he's scared), and I thought that was the best I would ever see in person. Obviously, I was wrong. :o

[BCWWF]

How come Michael Bennett wasn't invited to the NFL skills competition speed contest? He was Big 10 sprint champion and thinking of going out for the Olympics.

Plus, he is pretty good when he gets into the open. Theres a big difference between 4.6 and 4.8 when you are a running back.

[AlphaBean]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?id=2001738

This makes a lot of sense. If I trained as hard as Clarett did, I'd run extra slow, too.

[BCWWF]

From the Star Tribune



The Vikings will attack free agency with as much cap room (more than $30 million) as any team in the NFL. Their needs come throughout the defense, as well as on special teams and some positions on offense. One look at the team's priorities:

• Safety: The Vikings were disappointed by the play of Corey Chavous and Brian Russell last season and will look for a veteran replacement, probably for Russell. Denver's hard-hitting Kenoy Kennedy, who appears set on testing free agency, is a possibility.

• Receiver: Suddenly, the Vikings are thin at a once-deep position. Nate Burleson and Marcus Robinson are the only players guaranteed to return. This position might be filled through the draft, but those players available include Plaxico Burress, Derrick Mason and T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

• Placekicker: Incumbent Morten Andersen is a free agent, and it is possible the Vikings will find a combination placekicker/kickoff specialist in free agency. Other than Adam Vinatieri, who would require two first-round draft picks to sign, the next best available veteran might be Jay Feely.

• Linebacker: Even with the presumed addition of Napoleon Harris, the Vikings could use another starter. One darkhorse to consider: Washington's Antonio Pierce, whom they tried to sign as a restricted free agent last offseason.

• Cornerback: The Vikings tendered Brian Williams at $1.43 million but might still seek another starter to compete for a starting job. A possibility for the role is ex-Washington CB Fred Smoot. There have also been some discussions about ex-New England CB Ty Law, who could develop into a safety in the latter stages of his career.

Kevin Seifert

[MoRcHeEbA]

just a question about the 40 yard dash but didn't I hear that Jerry Rice had a shitty 40 yard dash time... I mean he is probably the best reciever ever so maybe blowing the 40 isn't all that bad.

[The Gooch]

Speed means shit IMO if you can't hold onto the ball or make a tackle. All this talk of individual times without their other stats is pretty useless.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah but the fact is...Brown totally dominated in everything if I am not mistaken. I read that he was solid all the way around. I have been saying for a long time that he would come out of the pack as the best RB in the draft...mad underrated.

[BCWWF]

Speed means shit IMO if you can't hold onto the ball or make a tackle. All this talk of individual times without their other stats is pretty useless.
Yes, you can not get by in the NFL being as fast as Maurice Green but with no skill. Thats obvious. At the same time, you can't be good in the NFL if you have the skills but not the physical ability.

The guys in the NFL are the elite athletes, don't forget that. Especially in the running back position, there are so many great running backs in the league that have the skills <i>and</i> the physical ability. If you are missing one you won't be more then a third down back in this league.

[Gonzo]

People said Tiki would only be a third down back. :-\

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

just a question about the 40 yard dash but didn't I hear that Jerry Rice had a shitty 40 yard dash time... I mean he is probably the best reciever ever so maybe blowing the 40 isn't all that bad.I highly doubt it was TERRIBLE - I just don't think he was a blazer or anything.

Speed does mean something, its not the only thing, but it matters. Say speed doesn't matter when your teams linebacker, that runs a 4.6, is trying to catch a running back, that runs a 4.4

[BCWWF]

Rice wasn't a WR that relied on having blazing speed, a guy like Moss thrives on it. Rice was more of a possession reciever, so he could get by not having blazing speed. Like Stima said, I am sure it wasn't horrible either.

[AlphaBean]

Yes, you can not get by in the NFL being as fast as Maurice Green but with no skill. Thats obvious. At the same time, you can't be good in the NFL if you have the skills but not the physical ability.

The guys in the NFL are the elite athletes, don't forget that. Especially in the running back position, there are so many great running backs in the league that have the skills and the physical ability. If you are missing one you won't be more then a third down back in this league.
Seems to me the Patriots won another superbowl with a 6th-round compensation pick at QB, a patchwork offensive line, old white dudes at linebacker, and a wide receiver at cornerback.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you can play football, then being an athlete doesn't matter.

[BCWWF]

You people that try to claim the Patriots win with bad players playing as a team is a joke. They win with underrated players who are some of the best in the league at what they do.

Besides using extreme and wrong exagerations, even mentioning Troy Brown disproves your point in itself. Are you saying that he is untalented at football or that he is not an elite physical specimen? Because if I'm not mistaken that is why he is able be as good as he is.

Furthen then, I am talking about individual players. If you have great hands but run a five second forty, you likely aren't going to make it in the NFL, and if you do you will be the equivilent to Keenan Howry. To even try to insinuate that the Patriots win by using scrubs is just rediculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you can play football, then being an athlete doesn't matter.
I can't stop, this quote is just too priceless. There are so many people who can play football that don't physically meet the demands of the NFL, its just that simple. Darren Sproles is probably one of the most talented RB's in the draft, but he will be taken late and will probably spend his NFL career as a return specialist. Sure, there are going to be exceptions, but if you don't match up physically in the NFL, somebody else will. I honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make about the Patriots, unless you are implying that their team is made up of guys who are smart football players but not physically gifted. If that is your point, then besides being off-topic, I simply disagree.

[BCWWF]

I know I come off like a dick right there, but to justify it if I thought the other post wasn't coming off the same way I would have reacted differently. My opinion has not changed: If you don't match up physically, theres most likely going to be somebody better to take your place.

[The Gooch]

Yes, you can not get by in the NFL being as fast as Maurice Green but with no skill. Thats obvious. At the same time, you can't be good in the NFL if you have the skills but not the physical ability.

The guys in the NFL are the elite athletes, don't forget that. Especially in the running back position, there are so many great running backs in the league that have the skills <i>and</i> the physical ability. If you are missing one you won't be more then a third down back in this league.

I completely agree with you. However, I do believe Jerome Bettis is the exception to your third down back rule. My comment was directed at all the time quotes. This is not track and field we are talking about. I am not impressed with who is the fastest runner. If you are extremely fast, and have additional stats of rarely fumbling the ball, a low number of missed tackles, or few drops on catchable balls, that is when I am impressed. My Packers have pretty fast people on defense, but can't tackle anybody to save their life.

[AlphaBean]

You people that try to claim the Patriots win with bad players playing as a team is a joke. They win with underrated players who are some of the best in the league at what they do.

Besides using extreme and wrong exagerations, even mentioning Troy Brown disproves your point in itself. Are you saying that he is untalented at football or that he is not an elite physical specimen? Because if I'm not mistaken that is why he is able be as good as he is.

Furthen then, I am talking about individual players. If you have great hands but run a five second forty, you likely aren't going to make it in the NFL, and if you do you will be the equivilent to Keenan Howry. To even try to insinuate that the Patriots win by using scrubs is just rediculous.


I can't stop, this quote is just too priceless. There are so many people who can play football that don't physically meet the demands of the NFL, its just that simple. Darren Sproles is probably one of the most talented RB's in the draft, but he will be taken late and will probably spend his NFL career as a return specialist. Sure, there are going to be exceptions, but if you don't match up physically in the NFL, somebody else will. I honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make about the Patriots, unless you are implying that their team is made up of guys who are smart football players but not physically gifted. If that is your point, then besides being off-topic, I simply disagree.
No you're wrong. How was I being off-topic? On Madden they have this fake conversation about "combine skills vs intangibles." And Tony Bruno says that at the combine, the coaches were afraid of Culpepper's small hands. That's why he was picked like, after what, Akili Smith and Cade McNown? I can't remember correctly, but he was picked extremely low in terms of quarterbacks, when he was the best QB in that draft. Then they brought up Anquan Boldin, who singlehandedly discounts your argument. He set Rookie Records, and was what, the 10th WR taken in the draft?

And please, you're trying to say that the Patriots players are all "underrated," discounting the coaching and discipline of the team. Think about the Vikings. The dude said it well about the Packers... the Vikings have some extremely talented defensive players. But they're dumb. Who cares how fast and strong you are if you run to the wrong place in coverage, or hit the wrong gap in run defense? You take a guy like Teddy Bruschi who is just a big blue collar dude, and you put him in the right place at the right time every play, then he's worth more than 1,000 Dontarrius Thomases. http://www.kffl.com/static/sample/gmjr/gmjr_sample_tom_brady.pdf

Just read that. Dunno, it says he sucks athletically in every sense of the word, and check this out: http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/ce/feature/0,1518,1675275_59,00.html

Brady was rated high, but he was no Tee Martin. :?: One of the main things about the top 5 QBs was that they had the "physical abilities."

And pray tell, dude, if Troy Brown is so gifted, why was he released? :?:

Why? Because the Patriots don't care who's in there, they can plug in a WR at DB and DEs at LB and DTs at DE and CB at FS, and it all worked out, because it's a matter of preparation, toughness and discipline. Without that, you're nothing. If a WR can't concentrate, he will run bad routes and drop catchable balls. It's not a physical thing. And I honestly don't see how you could think you did anything to disprove this, either. Besides saying I was off-topic :?: and wrong. Good one!

[BCWWF]

What you are saying makes it sound like I said something completely different then I said. The way thats written out implies that I said a great athlete can be a great football player, what I did say is that if you have talent but not the physical ability or physical ability but not the talent, there is going to be somebody better then you.

You make it sound like you could throw Cris Hovan into DB for the Patriots and he would immediately become all-pro or something. The fact of the matter is that Troy Brown is a great football player. He was cut for salary issues because the Patriots have a knack for finding the cheap guys who are incredibly underrated, and besides that they have other guys who are better then Brown who will be coming back.

You are veering off into something completely different, and thats how you are off topic. This isn't about whether a wide reciever is prepared by his coaches or not. I am talking about raw talent and physical ability, not whether a player has a good coach or not.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue, you're saying that Tom Brady is only good because he plays for the Patriots? You could throw any wide reciever, no matter the natural talent or physical ability into a CB slot for the Patriots and he would automatically be good? That article you linked said nothing about Brady's athleticism, but thats beyond the point since I have been talking about positions that require athleticism as well as talent, RB, WR, DB, LB etc.

So you don't argue against points I never made again:
1. You need BOTH athleticism and talent to be elite at a skill position in the NFL
2. Troy Brown fits both descriptions of #1, which is why he was able to fill in so nicely for the Patriots. He's not your average player.
3. The Patriots have extremely talented players on their team, they aren't just a bunch of scrubs thrown together that somehow mesh under the coaching staff to become winners.

[BCWWF]

Bean, is it just me or do you think that this Moss trade may indirectly come back to haunt the Vikings in more ways then on the field? I've just been reading some of the articles about Moss's entrance into Raider Nation today, and it seems like a more extravagent and positive situation then ever with the Vikings. I'm not positive, but I would have to guess that the Vikings don't have the greatest front office and everything, and I think Moss in a better run organization could really put a bad light on the Vikes. If it does though, maybe it will convince the people to build a stadium...nah what am I thinking?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Everybody in the NFL is a great athlete, I don't know what you guys are talking about. Patriots players are just as good as Vikings players.

[John la Rock]

I wouldn't call a 6'5 400 lbs centre a great athlete

[AlphaBean]

Why wouldn't you? If he wasn't a great athlete, he wouldn't be able to play in the NFL. He wouldn't be able to handle 4 quarters. He'd get injured immediately, be winded constantly, and never even make it out of training camp.

So if he's in the NFL, he's a great athlete.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I wouldn't call a 6'5 400 lbs centre a great athlete
Are you serious? That probably makes him even a better athlete that hes able to run around and block people with all that weight. The foot work that NFL lineman have is unbelievable.

[SuperSlim]

so Moss is a Raider... #18. now what?

[BCWWF]

If he wasn't a good athlete, then some other 6'5" 400 pound guy would come in and take his place, simple as that.

I don't remember Moss ever being #18 on the Vikings, but its reported that he was his first season. Hmm, whatever?

[BCWWF]

BTW....Star Tribune says that Vikings are probably going to take Braylon if he is still around :love:

[AlphaBean]

If he wasn't a good athlete, then some other 6'5" 400 pound guy would come in and take his place, simple as that.

I don't remember Moss ever being #18 on the Vikings, but its reported that he was his first season. Hmm, whatever?
In training camp in 98.

[AlphaBean]

What you are saying makes it sound like I said something completely different then I said. The way thats written out implies that I said a great athlete can be a great football player, what I did say is that if you have talent but not the physical ability or physical ability but not the talent, there is going to be somebody better then you.

You make it sound like you could throw Cris Hovan into DB for the Patriots and he would immediately become all-pro or something. The fact of the matter is that Troy Brown is a great football player. He was cut for salary issues because the Patriots have a knack for finding the cheap guys who are incredibly underrated, and besides that they have other guys who are better then Brown who will be coming back.

You are veering off into something completely different, and thats how you are off topic. This isn't about whether a wide reciever is prepared by his coaches or not. I am talking about raw talent and physical ability, not whether a player has a good coach or not.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue, you're saying that Tom Brady is only good because he plays for the Patriots? You could throw any wide reciever, no matter the natural talent or physical ability into a CB slot for the Patriots and he would automatically be good? That article you linked said nothing about Brady's athleticism, but thats beyond the point since I have been talking about positions that require athleticism as well as talent, RB, WR, DB, LB etc.

So you don't argue against points I never made again:
1. You need BOTH athleticism and talent to be elite at a skill position in the NFL
2. Troy Brown fits both descriptions of #1, which is why he was able to fill in so nicely for the Patriots. He's not your average player.
3. The Patriots have extremely talented players on their team, they aren't just a bunch of scrubs thrown together that somehow mesh under the coaching staff to become winners.
SIGH.

You honestly don't get it. Like Steamer said, any player in the NFL is a great athlete. That can't be denied. What you said first that got me itching is...


Originally Posted by BCWWF
Yes, you can not get by in the NFL being as fast as Maurice Green but with no skill. Thats obvious. At the same time, you can't be good in the NFL if you have the skills but not the physical ability.

The guys in the NFL are the elite athletes, don't forget that. Especially in the running back position, there are so many great running backs in the league that have the skills and the physical ability. If you are missing one you won't be more then a third down back in this league.
You said you can't have one without the other, and I said that you can. Obviously if you don't know how to play football, you can't be an elite athlete and succeed. That was my point. That is why I agree with you there. However, if you are just a "good athlete," and not ELITE, you are not the fastest, quickest, whatever, then you will succeed. If you're smart, hard-working, tough, then ability won't matter. It's all about what's inside. Like leadership, intensity, intelligence, clutch, confidence, short memory. That is why the Patriots win the championships, because Belicheck teaches all these things, and has signed "average" talents who have above-average intangibles. But you just don't see that. You think I'm saying Brady would be nothing without Belicheck? THen why am I even arguing with you, if you can't comprehend what I'm saying. I'm wasting my time. Which is why I didn't really want to reply, but I didn't want you to feel like you somehow had "won."

[BCWWF]

I was referring more to positions of like RB, WR, DB, LB where you need a lot of athleticism to be good. A quarterback can get by without being a superior athlete, see Dan Marino. I am just saying, for an athlete of average talent, if you aren't a great athlete then the NFL is big enough so that there will be somebody who has similar talent and is a better athlete.

[MoRcHeEbA]

so McCombs said today he thought about firing Tice to "spark" Moss last season...


sdfjjsjdhfjksahfdsjkahfkjhds

this makes me hate the vikings even more I bet everyone would rather have Moss and a new coach rather than Mike Tice :mad:

[BCWWF]

I liked Napolean Harris in his first comments though. He is confident and happy to be in Minnesota, ready to lead the young defense, and if he can get some solid friends around him could be very effective.

Chris Claiborne signed with the Rams today :nono: All of a sudden the Rams defense is a lot better.

[MoRcHeEbA]

atleast the Vikes signed Williams today that should make their D-line better.

[road doggy dogg]

Chris Claiborne signed with the Rams today :nono: All of a sudden the Rams defense is a lot better.

LOL. Hey our run defense sucked last year so let's overpay for some old LB that isn't even that good

[BCWWF]

Cokley and Claiborne will improve their team drastically actually. Neither are Tedy Brushci or Jerimiah Trotter, but they are both above average guys and both big upgrades from last season. I can't imagine the Vikings defense without Claiborne last year, and we were already awful.

[AlphaBean]

I was referring more to positions of like RB, WR, DB, LB where you need a lot of athleticism to be good. A quarterback can get by without being a superior athlete, see Dan Marino. I am just saying, for an athlete of average talent, if you aren't a great athlete then the NFL is big enough so that there will be somebody who has similar talent and is a better athlete.
I think DB is basically the only position where you need to be a good athlete to be elite, but in a Cover 2, if you have good awareness, then you can make up for it. However, Rice was not elite in god-given talent, so he worked harder than anyone else to become the best. Sometimes not being the best physically makes for the best players, because knowing that there is someone out there who is more talented than you, makes you try harder. See Randy Moss vs Nate Burleson. Burleson worked his ass off because he knew he was expendable. When you're Randy Moss, you "play when you wanna play."

You see a HB like Emmitt Smith who was never that gifted, but another hard worker, and he is the all-time leading rusher. Was he gifted? Certainly. But there have been probably 100 HBs more talented since he came into the league, none of them will beat his record.

And Linebacker? You've gotta be kidding me. We went over this with the Patriots. None of their linebackers is all that great athletically... maybe Colvin, but then, how important was he? o_O

I would take a hard worker over a talent any day of the week.

[BCWWF]

Thats what I mean, but on a bigger scale. If you have two guys with average talent, there is usually going to be some characteristic that sets them apart. Bigger/faster/stronger, mentally, work ethic etc.

Where this all started is when somebody said that Maurice Clarett will still be drafted high and be a good player in the NFL, and I said that it wasn't likely because he has the natural talent, but there are other guys who maybe have less talent but better work ether or are better athletes, and thats why it is hard for a guy like Clarett to succeed.

[AlphaBean]

I think that Clarett deserves a shot, and he might actually pan out, because of the rough shake he's been given. I mean come on. How horrible can one man's quest for glory be? He's been a laughingstock time and again. It pains me to see all this, and then the article that suggested he overtrained and was just physically beat, which is why he couldn't run a good 40... and then he wanted to show up to the OSU workout, and they laughed at him. He's just in a tough spot, and I definitely don't envy him, but I think that the situation he's been put in will definitely give him an appreciation for whatever he does get, whether he's drafted high, low, or not at all.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

LOL. Hey our run defense sucked last year so let's overpay for some old LB that isn't even that good
Isn't even that good? He was the best linebacker the Vikings had.

[AlphaBean]

I hope he's talking about Coakly, who wasn't that great, and is like 40 years old. Claiborne is still on this side of 30, isn't he like 26? 27? Young fucker.

[Jerichoholic]

Yeah, Coakley is starting to decline. He used to be the man just because he played with so much heart, and was really fast to make up for his size. Now that he is getting older he is starting to lose a step. Oh well, still sad to see him go.

[BCWWF]

If Clarett can get the speed back and harness the drive, he has the talent to be good in the NFL, but just all the shit thats been happening makes that unlikely.

[BCWWF]

DONOVAN DARIUS WROTE A LETTER TO THE STAR TRIBUNE SAYING THAT HE WANTS TO PLAY FOR THE VIKINGS!!! MICHAEL BENNETT AND A DRAFT PICK AND HE IS OURS! HE IS AMAZING!

[AlphaBean]

He also sent that letter to the Dolphins and a handful of other teams in the NFL.

PS: The Jags have plenty of HBs on their teams.

They would probably accept Kenny Mixon, however.

[BCWWF]

The thing in the Star Tribune said Michael Bennett was the most likely?

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/11077387.htm

:(

Looked at a bunch of newspapers and didn't see any other reports of it

[BCWWF]

<center>Chavous Darius
</center>
<center>Henderson Harris Thomas</center>

<center>Winfield Udeze Williams Williams Mixon Smoot
</center>

<center>:eek:</center>

[Gonzo]

Darius is pretty old.

[Gonzo]

Well, 30, but getting there. I think he is past his prime anyways.

[BCWWF]

He is 29, and a big improvement over Brian Russell. We would have a sick secondary if we get him

[Gonzo]

He'll be 30 by the time the season starts, his birthday is August 12th.

[BCWWF]

meh

[Gonzo]

Listen, lets settle this like gentlemen.

Pistols at dawn.

[AlphaBean]

Darrion Scott is going to be starting at end over Mixon. Mixon may be cut.

Also, remember: Darren Sharper is going to be cut soon. :eek:

I'd rather have old Sharper than old Darius. :love:

[AlphaBean]

Robert Griffith on rushing downs, Sharper on passing downs. :love: :love: :love: :love:

[Jerichoholic]

When Sharper gets cut it might be kind of interesting.

Because I know Dallas is looking for a FS, and I've heard the Rams also have some interest in getting Sharper.

[BCWWF]

The Cardinals bringing in Griffith is proof that Hovan will be next

[The Outlaw]

Sharper is cut. Favre back.

[BCWWF]

Meh, the Pack doesn't have the talent around him anymore

[AlphaBean]

Who's going to stop Kevin Williams?

Favre is going to dieeeeeeeeeeeee.

[BCWWF]

Bum bum bum BUM...

THE VIKINGS HAVE SIGNED SAFETY DARREN SHARPER!

Also, it looks like the Vikings are going to let Plax walk. He left before even starting to negotiate a contract, likely on his way to Philly, and he only wants a one year deal. Personally I would rather have Braylon or Mike Williams anyway.