How should Taker/Orton at Mania be booked? *Poss. Spoilers*

[KingofOldSchool]

Well Orton officiallly laid out the challenge to Taker on Raw, yet we all knew this match was in the works for months. The actual buildiup could have been a lot better, for example...

At the Royal Rumble before Orton's match against Triple H, Orton is being interviewed. Orton talks about every legend he has taken out, then they could have Undertaker just walking up behind him while glaring. Although Orton never notices Taker's presence, Taker is there listening to Orton talk about all the legends he has taken out.

Then the week after HBK told Orton to make an impact at Wrestlemania, Orton comes out and talks about how last year at Wrestlemania, he gave Mick Foley the worst beating of his life and that this year he wants another legend to do that to. He mentions a lot of legends...Hogan, Rock, Austin, Piper, Savage, and even Sting. However, he doesn't mention The Undertaker.

The weekl after that Orton just defeated Maven in the match and he's in the ring celebrating when...

*the lights go out*

*The Undertaker's music starts to play and The Undertaker comes out*

The Undertaker and Orton stare face to face in the ring ala Hogan and Rock. Undertaker tells Orton that he left out someone from that list and proceeds to tell Orton about all of his Wrestlemania accomplishments. And then tells Orton that if he should face anyone at Wrestlemania it should be the only undefeated wrestler in Wrestlemania history. Orton accepts Taker's challenge and promises to show the whole World at Wrestlemania that he really is "The Legend Killer."

Then in the weeks leading up to Wrestlemania they can have them appearing on the "other" show helping each other out. For instance, Taker is getting beaten up by The Cabinet, so Orton comes out to help Taker out. Then the next week Undertaker shows up to help Orton fight off maybe Christian and Tomko. Thus showing that both guys respect each other and the Mania match is booked as face vs. face.

At Wrestlemania, The Undertaker wins the match after a Tombstone, while Taker is celebrating his victory, Orton gets up and spins Taker around. After an intense staredown, Orton extends his hand out to Taker. Taker accepts the handshake and orton starts to leave the ring, but stops. He goes up to Taker and does the Taker kneel down, arm raised thing iin tribute to Taker...so Taker responds by doing the same, but as Taker starts to kneel down, Orton jumps up and....BAM RKO! Orton snaps and begins to beat the living shit out of Taker. 3 RKO's and some sick looking chair shots as Taker gets busted open as Orton lays Taker out in the middle of the ring at Wrestlemania in a pool of his own blood. To top it off, Orton stands ontop of Taker posing in a "victory."

The next night on Raw, Orton comes out and starts talking about ever since being kicked out of Evolution he worried too much about being accepted by the fans that he forgot who he was. Then, at Wrestlemania, after being pinned by The Undertaker...he realized that it should all be about one person. RANDY ORTON...THE LEGEND KILLER! He says he did what he would've done this time last year...he killed the Wrestlemania legacy and the legend of the Undertaker. He states that not pinning The Undertaker didn't matter, because in the end...Orton was the one left standing.
------
What do you guys think of that scenario?

[PullMyFinger]

That won't happen because that actually makes sense.

[Jaton]

No shit.

[DaveWadding]

Well, Taker keeps his streak and Orton looks strong.

I like it.

[Corkscrewed]

I'd enjoy that a lot. Because the buildup is WAY too little to have Taker's streak end, just like that (hell, last year would have been better, technically). And to see RKO turn heel and really embark on it, that'd be cool.

Next year, they could revisit it, have a rematch, and THEN have RKO win. I'd personally like that much better. 13-0... and then you lose. Unlucky 13 in that way, not in 13th match.

Just my opinion.

[KingofOldSchool]

I'd enjoy that a lot. Because the buildup is WAY too little to have Taker's streak end, just like that (hell, last year would have been better, technically). And to see RKO turn heel and really embark on it, that'd be cool.

Next year, they could revisit it, have a rematch, and THEN have RKO win. I'd personally like that much better. 13-0... and then you lose. Unlucky 13 in that way, not in 13th match.

Just my opinion.

IMO, I don't think the streak should ever end.

[BatistaBomb]

they need to turn randy back to the legend killer but not with hunter and i'm speaking as a huge orton fan

[Kane Knight]

They should be booked as late in the game as possible.

[Jaton]

Yeah, I don't think Orton should go over 'taker at WM21. Perhaps at a later time, but the build-up has been utterly useless.

[snakeboss]

I don't want Taker to be done in by Randy Orton, the fans don't like him. We could have Orton 'lose it' during the match and chair the Undertaker and either the ref. doesn't see or its aloud, then he picks Taker up and goes for the RKO...

Im not sure, but I'm thinking there could a way Taker could reverse the RKO into a tombstone and win, then as he celebrates, Orton stands, he turns completely heel and goes to chair Taker, to which Taker guillotines him and leaves.

[Kane Knight]

I don't want Taker to be done in by Randy Orton, the fans don't like him.
Are you retarded?

[Jaton]

Since when does the WWE give a shit about what the fans like? :\

[Loose Cannon]

I don't get why you guys LOVE this streak so much. It's sure not putting anybody over and that's a no no, especially for a guy like Orton. I've said it as much as I can say it, Orton needs to beat Taker clean.

Look at it this way, put yourself in Orton's shoes:

You beat a legend clean in the ring. You end his streak. You pull something off nobody thought you could. Then after you win, after you take a so called legend down, you beat his ass.

OR

You lose. You become a soar loser. Then you beat a guy up.

Which one boosts your ego to more? Which one makes you believe you're unstoppable, which one places you in a catogory nobody else is in?

Yea, that's why it's Choice 1 for me.

[MVP]

Nothing good will come of Taker winning at Mania. Orton is a main eventer, even though his tenure on RAW was shat on. It's time for Taker to put someone over, cause last I knew he hasn't done that. I know he jobbed to JBL a few times, but none of those matches were clean jobs.

[Jaton]

I don't get why you guys LOVE this streak so much. It's sure not putting anybody over and that's a no no, especially for a guy like Orton. I've said it as much as I can say it, Orton needs to beat Taker clean.

Look at it this way, put yourself in Orton's shoes:

You beat a legend clean in the ring. You end his streak. You pull something off nobody thought you could. Then after you win, after you take a so called legend down, you beat his ass.

OR

You lose. You become a soar loser. Then you beat a guy up.

Which one boosts your ego to more? Which one makes you believe you're unstoppable, which one places you in a catogory nobody else is in?

Yea, that's why it's Choice 1 for me.


Well, I'm a huge Orton fan, but I just don't want 'taker's streak to end so abruptly. Maybe with a good buildup like last year, but not something that was seemingly pulled out of their ass.

[MVP]

A clean win over Taker is better for Orton than Taker getting another win on his "streak".

[Karlsberg]

It does seem the bookers have just pulled this out of their arses after they realised that Orton wasn't over enough to be in the main event at mania.

I think he will end takers streak however i dont think it will be cleanly and thus will not greatly benfit Orton.

[Kane Knight]

It does seem the bookers have just pulled this out of their arses after they realised that Orton wasn't over enough to be in the main event at mania.

I think he will end takers streak however i dont think it will be cleanly and thus will not greatly benfit Orton.
1) This has been planned for months. The buildup was shit, but it's been reported for ages.

2) What rock do you people live under? Orton's not popular, Orton's not over enough to main event wrestlemania (Which would ignore the fact that they'd been hyping Batista for it since at LEAST the Rumble), blah blah blah.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, they scrapped the Orton plan well before Rumble

[Karlsberg]

I know Orton and HHH for mania was scraped well in advance but i had no idea that they had been planning Taker against Orton for so long.

[Ruien]

they need to turn randy back to the legend killer but not with hunter and i'm speaking as a huge orton fan


The only problem with him being a legend killer is who would be next. The reason it ended was because thier was no one left on Raw for him to beat basically. Him turing heel yes but being the legend killer wont work.

[Loose Cannon]

Um, what? No thre reason it ended was because someone in that front office had shit for brains. The plan way back when was for Orton to remain heel and face a babyface HHH at Mania. Or for Orton to turn face, much like Batista did, after they teased it for a while.

No one left to beat? You mean "Legends?" Well he only really beat one "Legend" anyway. There was plenty people for him left to beat. Does HBK ring a bell? How about Kane?

[Stickman]

I agree with the people saying Randy Orton is not over enough. Face it, he's not.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, we've established that 3000 times the past 3 months. Who said he was over? Judging by the reaction he got on Raw just simpily stating he was going to end the win streak, I'd say he's in good shape so far turning back to heel.

[Loose Cannon]

So Basically

Smiling, gay pose, kissing up, saving females Randy Orton = NOT OVER

arrogant, cocky, cool pose, ending streaks, Legend Killer Randy Orton = OVER

[MVP]

What are you talking about LC? Everyone knows that a man whose had the same gimmick for 15 years and never puts anyone over is FAR more marketable than a young, charismatic Legend Killer.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, I don't know. Took a few pills today, so I'm probably out of my mind for even suggessting young talent be put over clean at the biggest stage of them all.

[Kane Knight]

So Basically

Smiling, gay pose, kissing up, saving females Randy Orton = NOT OVER

arrogant, cocky, cool pose, ending streaks, Legend Killer Randy Orton = OVER
Randy'll be over as long as they stop sugar coating him. Honestly, if they wanted to, they could make him a babyface "legend killer" and still have him over.

[Kane Knight]

yea, I don't know. Took a few pills today, so I'm probably out of my mind for even suggessting young talent be put over clean at the biggest stage of them all.
Naw. Just for asking the ipossible.

[BigDaddyCool]

Orton is a faggot. He still sucks on the mic. I hope Taker no sells everything and makes him look weak.

[KingofOldSchool]

I think if Orton was turn to turn heel, the scenario I did would be best. Because a babyface Orton can not beat The Undertaker and if he goes into Mania as a baby then he should lose. The turn would be more effective if he would destroy Taker after the match.

[Fox]

A simple comparison will show the obvious answer to this question:

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XIX

Jericho needed the win to elevate him to main event heel status. Had Booker T beaten Triple H (another match that should've gone the other way... but that's another topic), a heel Jericho with a fresh win over HBK would've been the perfect opponent for him.

Instead, the over the hill and played out Shawn Michaels picked up the win, Jericho suckered him into a handshake and low blowed him (admittedly a cool spot, but not good enough), and that was that.


Now, while comparing Randy Orton to Chris Jericho should be a mortal sin punishable by execution, the Orton vs. Taker set up is very much akin to the Jericho vs. HBK set up. One man is an established superstar with tons of huge victories in his career, the other is an upper mid-card wrestler who has been in the World Title scene before but never really made an impact thanks to politics.

Jericho's loss at WM XIX led him nowhere, and although he didn't lose any credibility from it, he didn't gain any either. A loss for Orton would be the same thing. What's he got to brag about after WrestleMania if he loses to Taker cleanly? He went toe-to-toe with the Dead man? Big fucking deal. So have lots of other people - it doesn't mean shit.

A loss for Orton would be detrimental to his career at this point. Hopefully the WWE realizes this and books him to win, then turn heel the same night, or at least the following night on RAW.

But again, this IS the WWE we're talking about.

[Shadow]

Well Orton officiallly laid out the challenge to Taker on Raw, yet we all knew this match was in the works for months. The actual buildiup could have been a lot better, for example...

At the Royal Rumble before Orton's match against Triple H, Orton is being interviewed. Orton talks about every legend he has taken out, then they could have Undertaker just walking up behind him while glaring. Although Orton never notices Taker's presence, Taker is there listening to Orton talk about all the legends he has taken out.

Then the week after HBK told Orton to make an impact at Wrestlemania, Orton comes out and talks about how last year at Wrestlemania, he gave Mick Foley the worst beating of his life and that this year he wants another legend to do that to. He mentions a lot of legends...Hogan, Rock, Austin, Piper, Savage, and even Sting. However, he doesn't mention The Undertaker.

The weekl after that Orton just defeated Maven in the match and he's in the ring celebrating when...

*the lights go out*

*The Undertaker's music starts to play and The Undertaker comes out*

The Undertaker and Orton stare face to face in the ring ala Hogan and Rock. Undertaker tells Orton that he left out someone from that list and proceeds to tell Orton about all of his Wrestlemania accomplishments. And then tells Orton that if he should face anyone at Wrestlemania it should be the only undefeated wrestler in Wrestlemania history. Orton accepts Taker's challenge and promises to show the whole World at Wrestlemania that he really is "The Legend Killer."

Then in the weeks leading up to Wrestlemania they can have them appearing on the "other" show helping each other out. For instance, Taker is getting beaten up by The Cabinet, so Orton comes out to help Taker out. Then the next week Undertaker shows up to help Orton fight off maybe Christian and Tomko. Thus showing that both guys respect each other and the Mania match is booked as face vs. face.

At Wrestlemania, The Undertaker wins the match after a Tombstone, while Taker is celebrating his victory, Orton gets up and spins Taker around. After an intense staredown, Orton extends his hand out to Taker. Taker accepts the handshake and orton starts to leave the ring, but stops. He goes up to Taker and does the Taker kneel down, arm raised thing iin tribute to Taker...so Taker responds by doing the same, but as Taker starts to kneel down, Orton jumps up and....BAM RKO! Orton snaps and begins to beat the living shit out of Taker. 3 RKO's and some sick looking chair shots as Taker gets busted open as Orton lays Taker out in the middle of the ring at Wrestlemania in a pool of his own blood. To top it off, Orton stands ontop of Taker posing in a "victory."

The next night on Raw, Orton comes out and starts talking about ever since being kicked out of Evolution he worried too much about being accepted by the fans that he forgot who he was. Then, at Wrestlemania, after being pinned by The Undertaker...he realized that it should all be about one person. RANDY ORTON...THE LEGEND KILLER! He says he did what he would've done this time last year...he killed the Wrestlemania legacy and the legend of the Undertaker. He states that not pinning The Undertaker didn't matter, because in the end...Orton was the one left standing.
------
What do you guys think of that scenario?

Only scenario that possibly makes sense if you ask me. Oh wait...you did.

[Splaya]

AS Lc stated Orton needs to be cocky, he needs to be heel again. I agree with the beatdowns and all that. The thing is, the bookers will be forced to turn him heel, due to us the fans. That's exactly why they are booking this match. This is an easy way for them to turn him heel. To make him a bigger heel, you have him come out the next night on RAW bragging about his win. "She's got Legs" hits and out comes Stacy. She tries to persuade him that he was wrong. Orton responds by saying Stacy, Baby, I'm who I have always been. Then he gets a smile on his face and then bam RKO.

Yes Legends on Raw are dwindling. It's true. That's why he gets drafted to SD. Then he has the Legend of Guererro, the Legend of Kurt Angle, JBL (yeah sorry), Taker, Cena (way down the road though). Big show. I think what will ultimately due Orton good here is have him get shipped over to SD.

[Shadow]

Yes. Thank you!

You can't be heel if you've got Stacy on your arm. You need to drop the girl and just be a cocky asshole.

Though if you could do a face "Legend Killer" I'd love to see that.

[KingofOldSchool]

A simple comparison will show the obvious answer to this question:

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XIX

Jericho needed the win to elevate him to main event heel status. Had Booker T beaten Triple H (another match that should've gone the other way... but that's another topic), a heel Jericho with a fresh win over HBK would've been the perfect opponent for him.

Instead, the over the hill and played out Shawn Michaels picked up the win, Jericho suckered him into a handshake and low blowed him (admittedly a cool spot, but not good enough), and that was that.


Now, while comparing Randy Orton to Chris Jericho should be a mortal sin punishable by execution, the Orton vs. Taker set up is very much akin to the Jericho vs. HBK set up. One man is an established superstar with tons of huge victories in his career, the other is an upper mid-card wrestler who has been in the World Title scene before but never really made an impact thanks to politics.

Jericho's loss at WM XIX led him nowhere, and although he didn't lose any credibility from it, he didn't gain any either. A loss for Orton would be the same thing. What's he got to brag about after WrestleMania if he loses to Taker cleanly? He went toe-to-toe with the Dead man? Big fucking deal. So have lots of other people - it doesn't mean shit.

A loss for Orton would be detrimental to his career at this point. Hopefully the WWE realizes this and books him to win, then turn heel the same night, or at least the following night on RAW.

But again, this IS the WWE we're talking about.

But, Jericho and Orton are in two different positions.

Orton is a babyface going into the match, he needs more of a reason to turn heel other than "I'm going to end Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak. Rawr." A loss to Taker at Mania would give him even more reason to snap and turn heel. Yes, a win for Orton at Mania would be good, but with the crap build up they have given for this match and the fact that they tried to push a babyface Orton down our throats for 6+ months should tell us that they need to give a better storyline for an Orton turn.

LC, you were bitching last week how after months of being made to look unstoppable, Cena lost the U.S. title to Orlando Jordan. So, then why is it not okay for Taker to pin Orton at Wrestlemania, ending a 13 year long streak that has been pushed for years with little buildup? I think the scenario I gave would have more long term impact than Orton beating Taker in a somewhat insignificant match. If a babyface Orton were to be pinned by The Undertaker at Wrestlemania, *THEN* Orton would have a reason snap and beat the holy hell out of Taker after the match, thus turning him heel.

[Splaya]

That is true KOOS. I agree with you 100 percent. Orton has stated though that he would like to stay face because he likes the pop. I think if this kid is smart, and he ever wants to be on top of the wrestling world again he will need to be heel. The thing is, how did we ever grow to love the Rock. We had to love him as a heel, which by turning him face would have been a lot better because we already loved him. As we have stated hundreds of thousands of times, the orton face turn was rushed. If they had not put the title on him and had not have him be a babyface, he could easily be getting the face pops that Batista gets right now. The sad thing is that Orton is getting pops similar to what Jeff Hardy got. Hardy was a ladies face, meaning all the ladies cheered for him, but the guys did not really care about it. That's how I see Orton getting if they do not turn him heel right now.

[Loose Cannon]

Woah Woah, yea look at the two talents here. Cena and Taker. Cena = the future star of the WWE. Much like Austin when he came up, he NEEDS to be protected. Taker is almost of his way out. HE NEEDS to start doing jobs. Come on, I know you guys learned something from 2001-2003, where the guys like Austin, HHH, Taker and others should of done jobs to guys to elevate the new talent.

And look. Why does Orton NEED to do a heelish act after he loses to turn him heel. The fans are already gradually turning him. You know he's turning. Why can't he get the rub then? Giving him the rub and then making him show no respect is much better then giving him a loss and making him look like a soar loser.

Point: Wrestlemania 13. Austin vs Bret Hart. Bret was a babyface going into the match, correct? What happened, Bret got the win, but kicked Austin when he was down and got tremendous heat for showing no respect. He didn't have a reason to turn heel other then he won and nobody seemed to appreciate it. Just like nobody seemed to care about Orton after he went after HHH. They turned to Batista and left Orton in the dust.

Now, you may say, well shouldn't Austin have got the win if you're arguing that new talent should get the victory. Well not here because Austin came out of the match looking stronger then ever by not quitting. This got both parties over and the angle worked real well.

By giving Taker a win, how does that make Orton look strong? Yea, maybe he'll get his win at Mania 22, but isn't that a little to far down the line to be talking about right now. This is classic Taker. He doesn't and hasn't given one guy a rub in the last 5 years. Cena had a chance to beat him on a major PPV and didn't. Yea, he got his win on Smackdown, but it was made to look like a fluke. You got to protect these young guys, especially Orton and CENA. You can't be jobbing them and expect people to care. More towards Ortan then Cena. He's taken enough hits already, that if he loses at Mania, he may be screwed.

Yea, Taker will probably win and Orton will get a victory over him later. On Mania 22? Very doubtful. But still, the fact of the matter is Taker keeps his streak and Orton becomes just another name on that long and pathetic list.

[Kane Knight]

Woah Woah, yea look at the two talents here. Cena and Taker. Cena = the future star of the WWE. Much like Austin when he came up, he NEEDS to be protected. Taker is almost of his way out. HE NEEDS to start doing jobs. Come on, I know you guys learned something from 2001-2003, where the guys like Austin, HHH, Taker and others should of done jobs to guys to elevate the new talent.

[....]

Point: Wrestlemania 13. Austin vs Bret Hart. Bret was a babyface going into the match, correct? What happened, Bret got the win, but kicked Austin when he was down and got tremendous heat for showing no respect. He didn't have a reason to turn heel other then he won and nobody seemed to appreciate it. Just like nobody seemed to care about Orton after he went after HHH. They turned to Batista and left Orton in the dust.
:y:

[KingofOldSchool]

He'd only be screwed, *IF* he doesn't give a massive beatdown to Taker after their Mania match. I mean afterall, like you said, you don't have to win a match to look strong as long as it's booked right.

[Kane Knight]

Don't mind me, I just wanna see the Undertaker go down.

Well, mostly I want to see some of the has-beens put over some talent while there's anyone who still cares about any of them.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, but this is Undertaker. I don't think He's ever made anyone look good. Bret, like Flair, like HBK, like Benoit, like HHH at one point, made people look like a million bucks.

I see Taker not selling, getting in a ton of offense, beating Orton and then Orton being a cry baby and turning heel because he lost. That would kill him.

[James Steele]

Yeah, Orton being a whiny bitch would kill his character wouldn't it?

:shifty:



:lol:

[KingofOldSchool]

Okay...what would you rather have?

1. Taker no sell everything, kick out of 5 RKO's, then beat Orton with a Tombstone. End of story.

2. Taker no sell most of Orton's offense, ends up pinning Orton. Then when Orton acts like he is showing respect to Taker, BAM Orton kicks his ass laying out Taker in the middle of the ring at Wrestlemania. Then Orton beats Taker at like Summerslam clean.

3. Taker no sells everything, Orton some how gets a fluke win. Nothing happens afterwards.

One of those three options are likely to be booked. Which of them would be better to watch?

[James Steele]

Honestly, number 2. I could at least keep dinner down when RKO was a heel. As a face, he is my version of upper-midcard X-pac heat. I think if they have Orton come close as humanly possible to beating "The Phenom" he will be more over for it. Yeah, he may lose but he can say nobody has EVER put up as much of a fight against the Undertaker as he did. Yeah, it may not be the BEST option as far as what will keep him over but why waste a record that could really propel somebody who could get over again just being a cocky heel. Damn it, RKO couldn't carry the heat Mick f'n Foley gave him for more than 2 months. He beat Mick Foley in HIS match. He beat the king of the japanese deathmatch, he beat the hardcore legend, he beat one of the greatest of all time, AND IT DIDN'T LAST 2 MONTHS.

Why waste it? Obviously, it would work but I don't think it would give him nowhere as much heat as the Foley storylines did and if that didn't last long enough to make it to SummerSlam. How far will beating the Undertaker last before he ends up beating up HBK again?

Like I said, have him go toe-to-toe with the Undertaker. But have Undertaker have to give Orton 2 or 3 tombstones to finish him. Make it look like Orton was THIS close. Then have Undertake0r offer to shake the hand of Orton, then Undertaker starts to leave the ring BUT Orton smirks like a bitch and BAM RKO!

[Loose Cannon]

I'd rather watch paint dry then to sit through any of that.

Choice 2 would be the likely choice cause Orton gets some heat on him afterwards.

Mick Foley needs to have a little talk with Taker on how to properly put people over.

[Loose Cannon]

BTW: The Foley thing made Orton and right after (like Raw's and PPV's after) that you could start hearing Ortan chants loudly throughout buildings. Orton proved himself with his match at Backlash and if you think he sucked there, then you just hate him Mark_style or something. Foley said it was one of his all-time favorite programs and matches he's ever done

[Kane Knight]

Yea, but this is Undertaker. I don't think He's ever made anyone look good. Bret, like Flair, like HBK, like Benoit, like HHH at one point, made people look like a million bucks.

I see Taker not selling, getting in a ton of offense, beating Orton and then Orton being a cry baby and turning heel because he lost. That would kill him.
He'd get mad heel heat from that.

Oh wait, I mean he'd turn nto a mad heel on heat.

Sadly, I think you're right. Why put over Orton when you can make Taker look good?

[Kane Knight]

I'd rather watch paint dry then to sit through any of that.

Choice 2 would be the likely choice cause Orton gets some heat on him afterwards.

Mick Foley needs to have a little talk with Taker on how to properly put people over.
:y:

[James Steele]

LC, I agree that the RKO/Orton match and hell the whole storyline was amazing BUT the heat he got from it didn't last. It got him over for little bit and there were Orton chants. However, I think that Undertaker should lose to somebody who NEEDS it. Orton doesn't NEED to beat Undertaker to get a sweet heel turn. I'd rather RKO lose a close match and turn heel than win a shit match out of luck and brag about it. (Undertaker won't lose clean or with a decisive win so I am trying to be realistic therefore Orton would have a better heel turn if he lost to Taker in a close match and bragged than winning with a lucky RKO and pin.)

[Kane Knight]

Orton might have gotten over more if they didn't turn him into bland shit.

[dalegendkilla]

I hope someone turns heel in this match, I don't really like face v.s. face matches, they're too clean, perhaps Taker or Orton will turn heel???

[Loose Cannon]

O and one more thing, since I just watched it the other day.

Remember at Mania 20, where Foley was about to hit the Claw and then Orton nailed him with the RKO out of nowhere. Remember both Foley's and Orton's reactions after Orton pinned him? He acted like he just found the cure for cancer and I bet that pissed you off, didn't it? I bet you guys were saying, "That mother fucker, how the hell did he just beat Foley?" Then Foley sits up and his reaction said that he couldn't believe what just happened. He looked at the ref and stuck 2 fingers up, claiming it was only a 2 count and the ref was like "No Mick, it was 3." It was like the ref couldn't even believe it.

Then when Orton left the ring, he went into cocky/arrogant mode and was smiling and yelling "I told you" at Foley. That is the kind of reactions you need for this match.

But instead of Orton leaving the ring, he looks down at Taker as if he's looked up to Taker all these years, but in reality (in Ortons mind), Taker is nothing and isn't even in his league. Then you do the "I thought you were worth it, but you suck" RKO and lay his ass out. Orton stands over him with the cool pose and he gets a ton of heat back.

COME ON WWE. DO ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[Loose Cannon]

Orton might have gotten over more if they didn't turn him into bland shit.

Exactly. Yea, the heat ended right when they turned him face an made him look as if HHH was too smart for him. Your heat is usually in the bookers hands. They can make you a star or bury you in 3 seconds. Yea, preformance by a wrestler plays a huge part and Orton did a fantastic job as a heel. But the bookers wanted to change his characer and he couldn't do anything about that.

[James Steele]

Originally Posted By Loose Cannon
But instead of Orton leaving the ring, he looks down at Taker as if he's looked up to Taker all these years, but in reality, Taker is nothing and isn't even in his league. Then you do the "I thought you were worth it, but you suck" RKO and lay his ass out. Orton stands over him with the cool pose and he gets a ton of heat back.

COME ON WWE. DO ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


LC, that would actually make me mark out BUT it won't happen. I am just trying to be realistic. There is no way in HELL Taker is going to do that. So why not have him lose a match that is just very close and then shake hands before smirking and RKO his ass.

[Shadow]

I want Choice Two!

[The Answer]

Not bad man but I see the Legend Killer striking down another Legend 1-2-3

[Kane Knight]

I wanna see him hit the RKO on Sarah.

[Fox]

But, Jericho and Orton are in two different positions.

Orton is a babyface going into the match, he needs more of a reason to turn heel other than "I'm going to end Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak. Rawr." A loss to Taker at Mania would give him even more reason to snap and turn heel. Yes, a win for Orton at Mania would be good, but with the crap build up they have given for this match and the fact that they tried to push a babyface Orton down our throats for 6+ months should tell us that they need to give a better storyline for an Orton turn.


Picture this:

The match is going into the 20th minute. Both men are bloody and tired, barely able to stand, hurt and torn. Randy signals for the RKO, goes for it, gets rejected and shoved into the ropes and CHOKESLAMMED right in the middle of the ring. A livened Undertaker is livid! He drags the thumb across the throat. He lifts Randy Orton up for the Tombstone Piledriver, but at the last second, Orton slides out and BOOM! RKO! 1-2-3! The fans are screaming and clapping for one of the greatest moments in WrestleMania history. The Undertaker, after 12 years of victory, has finally gone down to this young, 3rd generation athlete.

Still broken and bruised, Orton and Taker slowly get to their feet, and the ref raises Orton's hand in victory. The deadman holds himself up in the corner, glaring at the young kid. They meet in the center of the ring, and Taker reaches out his hand. They shake. They embrace.

But then, Orton pulls back and looks into Taker's eyes. He mouths "Thank you" and low blows him and RKO's him again! The fans are livid! They throw trash in the ring and the Legend Killer stands atop the turnbuckle and does his cocky pose.


The next night on RAW, Randy cuts a promo at the start of the show. It's all about how, although the fans cheered him, he knew they didn't BELIEVE he could beat the Undertaker at WrestleMania. They didn't BELIEVE that he was for real. But he is. And now, after proving them wrong, he spits in the faces of the non-believers of the ultimate 3rd generation superstar - The Legend Killer, Randy Orton. He's done the impossible, and he is the BEST.

Cue up Batista's music. He walks down to the ring with the Title belt over his shoulder. "Excuse me? Did I just hear you say that you're THE BEST?"


It fits like a god damn glove.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I really won't lose any sleep if Orton doesn't go over at WrestleMania, but I do feel strongly that he should. I would have done a few little things to make the feud a bit different so far, though.

I didn't particularly like how Eric Bischoff just OK'd Randy's challenge. It would have made more sense for Eric Bischoff to come out and start telling Orton he's crazy and that Taker would kick his ass. Orton then goes into how people probably told Eric Bischoff he was crazy when he tried to kill the WWE. He then feeds Bischoff's ego until Eric decides Orton does have that flame in his eyes that Bischoff had. EB OKs the match, and we are just awaiting The Undertaker and Theodore R. Long's answers. You can then have Randy RKO Eric Bischoff, or you can have Eric start supporting Orton through the coming weeks.

On SmackDown!, Theodore Long is heading to his office, and when he enters he flicks on the light, only to find dead animals hanging from the ceiling. For some reason Teddy Long suspects Carlito Caribbean Cool had something to do with this, but Carlito denies it. He says that The Undertaker has a reputation of toying with death. Maybe it was him? Teddy then says that Carlito will get the blame for it unless CCC finds out for sure who did it. Carlito is a little disgruntled, but he goes off to complete his assignment.

Maybe you can have Carlito go around the lockerrooms questioning guys like Hardcore Holly by asking them if the animals were too new around the lockerroom for your tastes, etc. just to keep the angle semi-focus of the show? Anyway Cool heads to the ring later in the night and calls out The Undertaker, because he knows he was the one who hung the animals in Teddy Long's office. The Undertaker grants Carlito his presence and is about to punish Carlito for accusing him when throught the crowd comes a man dressed comepletely in black, complete with a mask. The masked man attacks The Undertaker from behind with a steel chair, the masked man and Carlito then take turns to deliver the Overdrive to the Dead Man. The masked man then unmasks and is revealed to be Randy Orton complete with signature posing, now awesome due to the heat he would be getting. Carlito then says he's got a good idea who hung the animals in the office.

Then basically over the weeks you have Randy Orton and Eric Bischoff working together to give Orton the best chance of victory at WrestleMania, while Taker performs rituals and stuff to get his point that Orton will lose at Mania over.

In the match, you have both guys get in a lot of offense, with Randy Orton eventually countering the Last Ride, Tombstone or Chokeslam into the RKO. Maybe even have the TCB countered at some stage. I could see Orton hitting three RKOs, with Taker still kicking out, then the fourth getting it done. But anyway, Orton then kicks Taker's ass after the match.

Before the match, you could have Orton interrupt the Hall of Fame segemtn they'll probably run, and have him go wild with a steel chair or something. Hitting everyone, including his father. I'd rather see this used to give Muhammad Hassan something to do, though.

In the main event, for some reason I can see Randy Orton running down after the ref's been knocked out, and RKOing Batista so Triple H can make the cover and retain the World Heavyweight Championship. It could be a mistake, but I can see it happening.

[The CyNick]

I would use the contract signing to start the turn.

Have them sign the contract and stand face to face with each other. Then have Orton start to do the snorting thing that he does before he spits in someone's face. But he doesn't do it, he just looks at Taker and leaves the ring.

At Mania, Orton wins a tough match with the RKO. The finish I would go with is to have Taker hit the Chokeslam and only get 2, hit the Last ride, again 2, then go for the Tombstone, Orton fights back to his shoulders, slides off and BAM RKO! 1-2-3.

They both get up, Orton does his "I just won my first match clebration", Taker spins him around, another staredown, extends his hand, Orton shakes it and as Taker goes to leave he pulls him back in and spits in his face and BAM ANOTHER RKO.

Orton does his "I'm a prick" pose and there's your heel turn.

The next night Orton at first feels safe about being on RAW with Taker on SD, but then finds out about the draft lottery and is shitting himself. Early in the night Taker gets drafted to RAW and Orton is beside himself. Later in the night, Orton gets drafted to SD and jumps for joy, and then takes off in car to SD.

In the main event Taker is wrestling someone (Edge?), and Orton comes back through the crowd and hits Taker with another RKO and leaves.

[Splaya]

I would use the contract signing to start the turn.

Have them sign the contract and stand face to face with each other. Then have Orton start to do the snorting thing that he does before he spits in someone's face. But he doesn't do it, he just looks at Taker and leaves the ring.

At Mania, Orton wins a tough match with the RKO. The finish I would go with is to have Taker hit the Chokeslam and only get 2, hit the Last ride, again 2, then go for the Tombstone, Orton fights back to his shoulders, slides off and BAM RKO! 1-2-3.

They both get up, Orton does his "I just won my first match clebration", Taker spins him around, another staredown, extends his hand, Orton shakes it and as Taker goes to leave he pulls him back in and spits in his face and BAM ANOTHER RKO.

Orton does his "I'm a prick" pose and there's your heel turn.

The next night Orton at first feels safe about being on RAW with Taker on SD, but then finds out about the draft lottery and is shitting himself. Early in the night Taker gets drafted to RAW and Orton is beside himself. Later in the night, Orton gets drafted to SD and jumps for joy, and then takes off in car to SD.

In the main event Taker is wrestling someone (Edge?), and Orton comes back through the crowd and hits Taker with another RKO and leaves.

I actually like it. Except instead of the RKO the next night on Raw, have him lay him out with chair shots.

[The CyNick]

Yeah he could do that, I just like the idea of getting over the RKO more.

But yeah, the chair shots would give him more of a bad ass heel vibe. Why not do both?