Ric Flair says the most outlandish things part deuce:

[Zen v.W.o.]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/04/02/980288-sun.html

Going toe to toe with Ric Flair

By TIM BAINES - Ottawa Sun




RALEIGH, N.C. -- To be The Man, you've got to beat The Man ... or at least hang out with him for more than an hour right in the heart of Flair Country. The Dirtiest Player in the Game. Slick Ric. The Nature Boy. Naitch.

The bleach-blond-haired legend slides into a seat beside me in the RBC Center. North Carolina. The state where he's gained so much notoriety. So many memories.

Now 56, Flair is still stylin' and profilin'. He's still the limousine-ridin', jet-flyin', kiss-stealin', wheelin'-dealin' son-of-a-gun. Armani suits, sequined robes worth thousands of dollars. Struttin' down the aisle.

But, for the moment, he's sitting back in his chair, offering a glimpse at what it's like to walk in his shoes.

"To be Ric Flair, The Nature Boy, to be the character is hard to describe, hard to put into words," says Richard Morgan Fliehr. "It's been outrageous, a tremendous time.

"For about 20 years of my life, Ric Flair was the same inside and outside of the ring. I lived that life. I loved that life. Every day. I couldn't get enough.


"I think I'm wrestling's Jesse James. About half the stories you hear are probably true.

"I had fun. There were no drugs, nothing illegal. I just wanted to be part of the party."

Flair is humble, not like the character who is so at home with a microphone, with catchphrases like: "Ric Flair is just like space mountain, it might be the oldest ride in the park, but it still has the longest line."

Outside of the RBC Center, Mike Clark stands beside his black stretch limo. He's been a driver for Flair.

"He's larger than life. He's Ric Flair. Very flamboyant," says Clark. "Some superstars get so full of themselves, but Ric has never been anything but a gentleman."

A gentleman who has changed his lifestyle. He's toned down the nightlife. He may no longer be The Man, but other wrestlers still put him on a pedestal.

"I grew up watching Ric and even to this day I think he's the best there has ever been," says Flair's Evolution mate Triple H.

Flair insists he's a changed man. Part Nature Boy. Part Ric Flair.

"I was so full of myself, so full of the business," says Flair. "I didn't take time to slow down and look at some of the important things in life. I was so wrapped up in the moment.

"Ultimately, I was selfish. I wasn't mature enough. In my eyes, family is the most important thing in life, but I don't think it was for me. I was out of control ... My only regrets are for the people I hurt. I was so wrapped up in my career, I sacrificed family and I wish I could have that back. But you can only say that so many times. At the end of the day, we're all close.

"Part of it is I just got older. I couldn't stay out all night. To be that character is awesome, but I've got four beautiful kids -- (David, Reid, Ashley and Megan) and a 10-month-old granddaughter (Morgan Lee). I've always been pretty affectionate with kids and I love her to death."

Flair was born in Memphis, Tenn. on Feb. 25, 1949, adopted through the Tennessee Children's Home Society, stolen from his birth parents and put into an adoption black market. Conflicting documents say he was born Fred Phillips, Fred Demaree or Fred Stewart. He was raised by the Fliehrs -- Dick, a gynecologist and Kay, a theatre writer. And he grew up a wrestling fan, admiring AWA stars like Verne Gagne, Bobo Brazil and The Crusher. He was Mad Dog Vachon's paperboy.

The Nature Boy persona started emerging long before he put on the wrestling trunks. In his book, To Be The Man, he says he started having sex at the age of 14.

A chance meeting with Ken Patera kickstarted his wrestling career. He began in the Minnesota area, but relocated to Charlotte, N.C. in 1974. And the legend began. He won his first NWA title in 1981. It wouldn't be the last he'd strap across his waist. He's a 16-time, yep, 16-time world champ.

And he'd be a central figure in the Four Horsemen, along with Arn Anderson, Ole Anderson and Tully Blanchard ... then later with Barry Windham replacing Ole. The Four Horsemen are the greatest faction in wrestling lore. Four larger than life figures who lived large.

"Night after night we drew a phenomenal amount of money," says Flair. "Every night in an arena, we'd get beat, but we could draw.

And while Flair says he has no stroke in WWE's creative department, he wouldn't mind a Four Horsemen reunion of sorts.

"It would have to be Kurt Angle, Hunter (Triple H), Shawn Michaels and myself.The four best talkers they have."

And now he sits in Raleigh. Weighing and measuring his career, putting his life in perspective and talking about others who stake their claim among wrestling's giants.

"Bret Hart never drew a dime," says Flair. "He's taken the opportunity to knock everyone. But how can you knock a business that's made you $7 million? Bret's got a cult following, but he's losing that. Losing that because he just goes on and on. It's funny (that he knocks me) because I'm the only guy that would put him over.

"Hulk Hogan? The Hulk Hogan thing was great. He worked hard at being Hulk Hogan. I always said the difference between me and Hogan was I said yes and he said no. (Hogan wouldn't put anybody over). I'll concede the fact that Hogan was a bigger star than me.

"But in terms of overall product, he'd wrestle a five-minute match and be back at the hotel by 9. I'd wrestle for an hour ... and I'd give it everything I had.

'A LIAR'

"Eric Bischoff? He was a liar. And that's why I beat him up. I was the one guy who punched him, but there was a line of 20 guys who wanted to do it."

"Mick Foley? He can fall off a roof, but he can't wrestle. He can entertain doing something that's insanity, not wrestling.

"The biggest problem I have with guys like Foley and Hart is they're their own biggest fans."

There have been some slumps in Flair's career, too. Times when he wondered why he was still putting his limbs on the line.

"I lost a huge amount of self-confidence and a lot of self-respect in about 1997," says Flair. "I never thought I'd come back to work after WCW closed down.

"The company had been an embarrassment for two, almost three years. They let the inmates run the asylum and it was destined to fail.

"They tried to retire me. They were saying, 'He's 39 and he's too old.' I got my hair cut and they wanted to put an earring on me."

Then when he got hired by WWE, he had more doubts.

"Wrestlemania in Toronto. I was operating at about 50%," he says. "The Undertaker carried me through the match. I was afraid I was going to fail. I had never woken up wondering whether somebody was a better wrestler than me."

Flair is having fun again. He's confident in himself, confident that he's become a better person. And confident of his role. Confidence that probably coincided with the intervention of his buddy, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, the villainous Triple H, who invited him to join Evolution, with up-and-comers Randy Orton and Batista. He's stylin' and profilin' again. Once again knowing his role.

"When we were coming in here on the flight the captain came on and said we had just flown over Atlanta, we were heading over Savannah, then going over Columbia. I turned to Shawn Michaels and said: 'Why can't the guy say we've just entered Flair Country?' "

---

"Wooooooo! When there was such a thing as the NHL, Flair's voice boomed over the RBC Center's sound system each time the Hurricanes scored a goal. And for some Hurricanes fans, that may be the best reason to end the current NHL-NHLPA stalemate.

---

Wooooooo! The chant grows with each knife edge chop Flair delivers in the ring. As a heel, he does everything he can to get the fans to hate him. But as he absorbs several body shots and does a face plant into the mat, the fans laugh. The Nature Boy is at it again. An entertainer. A crowd pleaser. An icon.

"I've been to the nuthouse, I've had a heart attack on TV, I've been buried alive in the desert and I've played musical chairs," says Flair. "There's not much I haven't done.

"I can still be very good at this, I just need to keep my head straight. Whether it's 30 years or tomorrow (that I quit), the fans know that, whether there are 200 or 20,000 watching, I've given them my best performance."

And for that we're thankful, Naitch.

UP CLOSE WITH THE NATURE BOY

- Age: 56

- Drink: Red wine

- Beer: Miller Lite

- Favourite Movies: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Men of Honor, The Outlaw Josey Wales, Shane, Top Gun

- Favourite Music: Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard, Guns N Roses, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Barry White, Bruce Springsteen

- Hobby: Fishing

- TV: Sports Centre

- Fact: At a charity golf auction, Darius Rucker of Hootie and the Blowfish paid $27,000 for one of Ric Flair's robes and title belts

- Admission: "I don't know how to turn a computer on."

- Best feuds: Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Terry Funk, Sting, Wahoo McDaniel
............

Anyways yeah, Flair is still kissing his buds asses and his buds are kissing his right on back. How the hell is this guy even close to humble and grounded?
He's still full of it and imo a lying sack of crap. And the crap is turning white, with age.

And the point of this thread is to hopefully agree that he is not the man. Indeed not.

[ilt_undertaker]

Im not reading that, but I still think Flair is the man. :)

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Ric Flair is the man.</font>

[Loose Cannon]

"Bret Hart never drew a dime," says Flair. "

:lol:

Ok buddy

[LK]

I think Flair's the man but I can't stand the stuff he says about Foley. He always seems to leave out the fact that Foley delivered some of the very best promos that I've ever seen whenever he talks about Foley.

[Disturbed316]

He's probably still bitter about dropping the title to him.

[Gerard]

I think flair takes every interview as a chance to constantly bash people, he's gonna end up getting the shit kicked out of him for pulling this crap time and time again.

[Disturbed316]

"I'll concede the fact that Hogan was a bigger star than me. "

Never thought I'd hear him say that.

[DaveWadding]

Flair is right about everything that he said, minus the things he's said about Bret and the thing about Bret and Foley being their own biggest fans.

Foley is a SHIT wrestler. Flair is totally right. I love Foley, but he couldn't WRESTLE his way out of a paper bag. I'm not saying he's not a great ENTERTAINER, cause he is. But....

[Funky Fly]

I stopped reading after the guy said that Flair is humble, and other wrestlers let the fame go to their heads.

[John la Rock]

New 4 Horsemen: Flair, HHH, HBK, Angle....could work

agree with everything he said except for Bret not being a draw

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[James Steele]

I lost all my respect for Flair awhile back so I didn't lose any here.

[KingofOldSchool]

"Bret Hart never drew a dime," says Flair. "

:lol:

Ok buddy

Flair and the 4 Horseman single handedly kept the NWA afloat in the 80s.

Was Hart able to do that?

No.

[KingofOldSchool]

Oh btw,

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Zen v.W.o.]

Flair doesnt get why Bret would dump on him..well I believe it was mostly due to your Owen referencing a while back, but the fact you can claim he doesnt draw and also state he has a small cult following kind of proves his poiint about you. His small cult fan base is pretty damn huge.

I agree with some of his other statements, but I think where he goes right off the cliff is when he has beef with somebody. He doesn't give them the credit in the areas that they deserve. Bret and HBK didn't get along but they were both man enough to admit to each others talents and shit. Foley I doubt has ever claimed to be anything other then a glorifed stuntman and entertainer. But in his style of pro wrestling, he does tell one heck of a story all the same in the ring, and cuts even better one's through his promos. He deserves his accolades as well.

[Loose Cannon]

what the hell's that got to do with anything?

Hart was a draw. End of discussion.

[Loose Cannon]

Flair and the 4 Horseman single handedly kept the NWA afloat in the 80s.

Was Hart able to do that?

No.

what the hell's that got to do with anything?

Hart was a draw. End of discussion.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Flair and the 4 Horseman single handedly kept the NWA afloat in the 80s.

Was Hart able to do that?

No.

No, as he was not in the NWA.


But I'd say without Bret throughout the period when Hogan and a few others left, would the wwf have survived? Bret along with Taker and then a bit later HBK had to carry quite a burden that was put on them through scandals and everything else. And while Flair was wrestling in front of 2,000 fans a night, Bret was main eventing programs in front of audiences vastly superior to any Flair has performed in front of at the time. Bret worldwide owns flair when it comes to fans. There is no denying this.

[KingofOldSchool]

what the hell's that got to do with anything?

Hart was a draw. End of discussion.

No he wasn't.

[Mayo]

That does not mean that Bret didn't draw.

[Kane Knight]

I didn't read it. He's a sad old attention whore.

He'd rather get laughed at by people who think he's a senile old man then step out of the spotlight and get ignored.

[KingofOldSchool]

No, as he was not in the NWA.


But I'd say without Bret throughout the period when Hogan and a few others left, would the wwf have survived? Bret along with Taker and then a bit later HBK had to carry quite a burden that was put on them through scandals and everything else. And while Flair was wrestling in front of 2,000 fans a night, Bret was main eventing programs in front of audiences vastly superior to any Flair has performed in front of at the time. Bret worldwide owns flair when it comes to fans. There is no denying this.

No, Hart didn't do that period.

HBK didn't draw as champion.

Diesel didn't draw as champion.

Hart didn't draw as champion.

Get over it.

I'm not denying Hart as a wrestler, but as someone who could bring in money? No.

[McLegend]

Bret Hart kept the WWF alive when Hogan and everyone left.

Of course he was a draw

[Loose Cannon]

he just being a dick. Don't pay any attention to him. He knows Hart was a draw.

He does this eveytime Bret Hart is brought up with Flair. Don't know why.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Well somebody had to draw man, otherwise then the wwf would have seriously gone down at some point, no?? And the guys on top drew well enough for that to be maintained.

As for Flair drawing, yeah, he drew in arenas that had seating capacities of 2,000 or so, maybe less. Wow, what a draw. Dont kid yourself, anyone worth a dime could draw in those conditions, with a credible name.

Bret usurped Flair, did the best business of anyone else they had in their company..this is a fact.

[Gouda]

Bret worldwide owns flair when it comes to fans. There is no denying this.

I'd wager that Flair has way more fans than Bret.

Not that I'm bashing Bret. I am a Bret fan.

[McLegend]

I'd wager that Flair has way more fans than Bret.

Not that I'm bashing Bret. I am a Bret fan.
World Wide Bret has more fans.

In the South and midwest Flair has more, but around the world it's Bret who has more fans.

[YOUR Hero]

KoOS, you're an idiot. I'm a Bret hater... well hate's a big word, but the man was over. He drew.

B'ah. Why argue with someone like you anyways...

[loopydate]

To be fair, though, there's a difference between being over and drawing.

Honestly, aside from Andre The Giant, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, and Steve Austin, I don't think there has been another true draw in the industry in the last 30 years. No one that people would go out of their way to pay money to go and see. That's how I've always defined a draw.

People would plop down their money just to watch a 550-pound Frenchman who was supposedly invincible. They'd do the same just to watch Flair get that smug look knocked off his face. People paid good money for Hulkamania simply because it was so huge. People paid to see Steve Austin because you never knew what would happen.

As far as I know, the fans of early-to-mid-'90s WWF wouldn't have bought tickets just to see a Bret Hart match. Yes, they'd pop huge for him when his music hit, and yes they'd chant his name and buy his merchandise, but Bret Hart himself didn't draw the fans into the arena.

Flair did. Hogan did. Andre did. Austin did.

Bret didn't.

[PureHatred]

Well somebody had to draw man, otherwise then the wwf would have seriously gone down at some point, no?? And the guys on top drew well enough for that to be maintained.

That's just stupid. The WWF DID go down. By the end of the 90's they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Are you forgetting that entire period between 'Rock N Wrestling' and the Attitude Era? They held Wrestlemania at Caesar's palace for a reason; they weren't drawing shit.

HBK, Diesel, and Bret Hart did not draw as champions as as well as the guys who preceded them (Hogan, Savage, Warrior, etc) or who came after (Austin, Rock, etc..). You can blame this on the business being cyclical or whatever. But they didn't.

Of course, at the same time this was going on, WCW was losing upwards of $6 million a year and doing things like having a midget blow-up Sting's yacht and RoboCop headline a PPV.

Hart is a draw. Foley is a huge draw. That whole time period was an embarassment for wrestling ann blaming any one person for the state of the business as a whole is totally out of hand.

As for the article, Flair is just your average bitter old athlete. His bias makes it impossible to take him seriously. As was mentioned, he never gives credit to Foley for his charisma, but somehow manages to tell us that cutting the exact same 20 minute promo over and over makes Triple H one of the four best 'talkers' in the WWE.

Of course, if he'd heard someone actually use the term 'cut a promo' he'd have bitch-slapped them for using an insider term.

[YOUR Hero]

Guess you never seen some of the crowds at Wembley stadium then...

[PureHatred]

Honestly, aside from Andre The Giant, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, and Steve Austin, I don't think there has been another true draw in the industry in the last 30 years. No one that people would go out of their way to pay money to go and see. That's how I've always defined a draw.

The Rock?

Also, like I said, the business as a whole was so bad that it's hard to determine just who was drawing. Remember, the WCW had Ric Flair and Hogan at one point and were still losing money in buckets.

[YOUR Hero]

Flair is a draw in North Carolina, as Lawler is/was in Tennesse. Only Hogan, Austin, Rock and perhaps Andre were 'elite' draws. Everyone else were simply successful in their own ways and regions. If however, we're going to take Flair's word that he's a huge draw, then you can't consider Bret in any form.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Loopydate, I respect your view on what you feel a true draw is. But take a look at the 4 names you gave there. Hogan wrestled in front of massive crowds, as did Andre and Austin. Flair was so called drawing in front of crowds that TNA would be proud to attain. Now yes that may mean those particular fans were going to see Flair, but all the same, in arenas like that I think Bret would do the same thing easily, not to mention many others.

I doubt Flair would draw much larger crowds for the sole purpose of seeing him, as you were pointing out with your example.

[John la Rock]

Bret was/is a HUGE draw in Canada.. not so sure about the rest of the world

[Loose Cannon]

I don't know. Not going to even try here. Eveyone listens to CyNick anyway. He'll post a good one.

But can't tell you how many times I've read from newsletters, how many times I've heard from the wrestlers themselves, (including promtoers) and how many times I've seen strong numbers when Bret was Champion.

And loopy, you didn't even list Samartino, Backlund, Rock or even HHH and they were proven draws

[Loose Cannon]

Bret was/is a HUGE draw in Canada.. not so sure about the rest of the world

where have you heard that?

[PureHatred]

I don't know. Not going to even try here. Eveyone listens to CyNick anyway. He'll post a good one.

awwwww, snookums, we love you too.
:love:

[redoneja]

Saying that the period of Bret Hart's supremacy was an embarrassment? That's ludicrous, Hart had good matches with EVERYONE from 1992-1997. Hart wrestled a good match with ADAM FUCKING BOMB!!!!.
Admittingly, Hart and Nash didn't draw like they could of(and like Nash eventually did in WCW) because of the style of bookin and storylines. People had to be going to see Hart, Nash, Michaels, and Taker from 1994-1996 because there was nobody else worth a damn to main event(except Owen Hart and(maybe) Razor Ramon).

[Gerard]

omg comparing who has more fans and people actually believe they can back an argument like that up on "facts". Yeah lets get the fans world wide to stand outside their homes and count them all shall we. :roll: Fans for flair on the left and on the right for bret please.

[Normal Is Me]

Fuck Flair. Ric Flair can DRAW in North Carolina. Outside of Flair Country he can't draw worth shit on a regular basis.

Bret Hart can DRAW huge in Canada. But he could also puts up strong buys ANYWHERE else on a regular basis.

[Loose Cannon]

omg comparing who has more fans and people actually believe they can back an argument like that up on "facts". Yeah lets get the fans world wide to stand outside their homes and count them all shall we. :roll: Fans for flair on the left and on the right for bret please.

yea, it's called House Show numbers, ticket numbers, PPV numbers, etc etc etc.

This isn't the 1940's. The Neilson's doesn't make people stand outside there homes to count how many of those people are watching Raw on Monday Nights.

We're not arguing who has more fans anyway. We're arguing the fact that some believe Bret actually didn't draw.

[PureHatred]

Saying that the period of Bret Hart's supremacy was an embarrassment? That's ludicrous, Hart had good matches with EVERYONE from 1992-1997. Hart wrestled a good match with ADAM FUCKING BOMB!!!!.

From a business standpoint, it was an embarassment. To reiterate, the WWF didn't go from playing the Pontiac Silverdome to Caesar's Palace a few years later because Caesar's was more 'cozy.'

[Gerard]

We're not arguing who has more fans anyway. Read the thread.




I'd wager that Flair has way more fans than Bret.

Not that I'm bashing Bret. I am a Bret fan.


Maybe you should try "reading the thread" some people were arguing about what i was talking about.

[McLegend]

Maybe you should try "reading the thread" some people were arguing about what i was talking about.
Yeah but the majority of post have been about being a big draw not who has the most fans.

Bret though did keep the WWF alive before Austin got big.

[Loose Cannon]

alright, my bad. The main argument is what I said anyway.

[redoneja]

Since when did arena quality have to do with putting on a solid show? I'm not trying to defend WM IX but if wrestling in front of 93,000 people = greatness then ECW and RoH are pieces of shit.

[Gerard]

Yeah but the majority of post have been about being a big draw not who has the most fans.


Meh, i just found the fact of people trying to argue who has more fans amusing. :yes:

[Normal Is Me]

From a business standpoint, it was an embarassment. To reiterate, the WWF didn't go from playing the Pontiac Silverdome to Caesar's Palace a few years later because Caesar's was more 'cozy.'
The wrestling FAD was over to all the casual people... Just like the reality TV show FAD are thankfully starting to die.

[PureHatred]

I think flair takes every interview as a chance to constantly bash people, he's gonna end up getting the shit kicked out of him for pulling this crap time and time again.

Since you're only contribution to this topic was this pearl of wisdon (omg, Ric shuld b quiet be4 he gets beat up!!!111111roxorz), why don't you just sit there and try not to hurt yourself.

[Gerard]

Since you're only contribution to this topic was this pearl of wisdon (omg, Ric shuld b quiet be4 he gets beat up!!!111111roxorz), why don't you just sit there and try not to hurt yourself.


So saying someone could get tired of his bs and ending up punching him is "so totally not gonna happen" in your mind despite the kind of "sport" theyre involved in. :roll:

[PureHatred]

Since when did arena quality have to do with putting on a solid show? I'm not trying to defend WM IX but if wrestling in front of 93,000 people = greatness then ECW and RoH are pieces of shit.

Are you retarded or just trying to piss me off?

The majority of this thread has been about whether or not you could consider Bret Hart draws. The very definition of the term draw is how much money-from ticket sales, PPV buys, ratings, merchandise sales- that a performer generates.

We're not talking about workrate. We're talking money. Please catch up.

[redoneja]

I totally agree that the "fad"" of wrestling is over for casual fans. Casual fans are what provide boom periods to wrestling. The pure wrestling fan sticks with it throughout, its the casual fan who comes and goes. That's why drawing power does not = greatness. Just because you are a huge draw doesn't mean you can WRESTLE. Look at Bruno Sammartino and Ultimate Warrior. Yes they were HUGE draws but both of them had limited abilites(most people don't realize this about Bruno but IMO its true). Same thing for Hogan.

[Champion of Europa]

<font color=goldenrod>Ric Flair is the man.</font>

[John la Rock]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Normal Is Me]

Here is most, if not all, of Bret Hart's MAIN EVENT ONLY pay per view history. It includes attendance records, who he was facing, etc..



Event: SummerSlam 1992
Date: August 29, 1992
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
Arena: Wembley Stadium
Attendence: 80,355
Main Event: Bret Hart V. British Bulldog

Event: Survivor Series 1992
Date: November 25, 1992
Location: Richfield, Ohio
Arena: Richfield Coliseum
Attendence: 17, 500
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Shawn Michaels

Event: WrestleMania 9
Date: April 4, 1993
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Arena: Caeser's Palace
Attendence: 15,045
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Yokozuna

Event: King of the Ring 1993
Date: June 13, 1993
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Arena: Nutter Center
Attendence: 6,500
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Bam Bam Bigelow

Event: WrestleMania 10
Date: March 20, 1994
Location: New York City, New York
Arena: Madison Square Garden
Attendence: 18,065
Main Event: Yokozuna V. Bret Hart

Event: Survivor Series 1995
Date: November 20, 1995
Location: Landover, Maryland
Arena: USAir Arena
Attendence: 14,500
Main Event: Diesel V. Bret Hart

Event: In Your House #5
Date: December 17, 1995
Location: Hershey, Pennsylvania
Arena: HersheyPark Arena
Attendence: 7,289
Main Event: Bret Hart V. British Bulldog

Event: Royal Rumble 1996
Date: January 21, 1996
Location: Fresno, California
Arena: Selland Arena
Attendence: 9,600
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Undertaker

Event: In Your House #6
Date: February 18, 1996
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Arena: Louisville Gardens
Attendence: 5,500
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Diesel

Event: WrestleMania 12
Date: March 31, 1996
Location: Anaheim, California
Arena: Arrowhead Pond at Anaheim
Attendence: 18,852
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Shawn Michaels

Event: In Your House #12: "It's Time"
Date: December 15, 1996
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Arena: Market Square Arena
Attendence: 9,649
Main Event: Sycho Sid V. Bret Hart

Event: In Your House #13: "The Final Four"
Date: February 16, 1997
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Arena: UTC Arena
Attendence: 6,399
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Steve Austin V. Vader V. Undertaker

Event: In Your House #14: "Taker's Revenge"
Date: April 20, 1997
Location: Rochster, New York
Arena: Memorial Auditorium
Attendence: 6,477
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Steve Austin

Event: In Your House #16: "Canadian Stampede"
Date: July 6, 1997
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Arena: The Saddledome
Attendence: 12,151
Main Event: Hart Foundation V. Austin, LOD, Goldust & Shamrock

Event: SummerSlam 1997: "Hart and Soul"
Date: August 3, 1997
Location: East Rutherford, New Jersey
Arena: Continental Arena
Attendence: 20,213
Main Event: Undertaker V. Bret Hart

Event: Survivor Series 1997: "Gang Rulz"
Date: November 9, 1997
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Arena: Molsen Centre
Attendence: 20,593
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Shawn Michaels

Event: Fall Brawl 1998: "WarGames"
Date: September 13, 1998
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Arena: Lawrence Joel Coliseum
Attendence: 11,528
Main Event: War Games Match..Hart, DDP, Hogan, Sting, Warrior, Piper, Luger

Event: WCW World War 3 1998
Date: November 22, 1998
Location: Auburn Hills, Michigan
Arena: The Palace at Auburn Hills
Attendence: 17,670
Main Event: Diamond Dallas Page V. Bret Hart

Event: WCW Mayhem 1999
Date: November 21, 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Arena: Air Canada Centre
Attendence: 13,839
Main Event: Bret Hart V. Chris Benoit

And there is a Hart V. Goldberg starrcade main event but the web site for starrcade is done


credit - wrestling information archive http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/wiamain.htm

[Jaded-Dragon]

Bret Hart was/is a draw. I find it hillarious that one can say that people cheered for him and bought his merchandise, but he wasn't a draw. During the steriod trials they put the belt on Bret to help with PR, but he ended up keeping the belt, and winning it again and again. Why? Because he was a draw that's why. You can't say that he wasn't a draw because he didn't give raw a 6.0 rating. During the time Bret was big it was during a completely different era. It's not Bret's fault that the wrestling industry had yet to hit a sense of realism, and there for aquire most of the fanbase it had during the late 90's. For the time, Bret did draw, and that's why he won the title five times.

As for Flair.... please. Did Flair vs Sting ever put WCW on top of the WWF? No. Did the four horseman? Nope. Flair can say what he wants, but it wasn't until WCW brung in the WWF guys that they got big. Even when Flair went to the WWF, he didn't draw shit.

He really needs to take a look in the mirror before he starts rambling about some things. Either that, or he really is senile.

[Hired Hitman]

Most people that Lose Respect for flair is because he doesn't say their favourite wrestlers are great.

[Esoteric]

He was raised by the Fliehrs -- Dick, a gynecologist
am i the only one found the part about ric flairs father funny and yeah ric flair is a total kiss ass cause we all kno bret is the man

[Kane Knight]

Most people that Lose Respect for flair is because he doesn't say their favourite wrestlers are great.
More like "because he's a petty old man who slanders everyone who isn't him."

[loopydate]

^ Yeah, that.

But, honestly, show of hands: Imagine it's 1994. If there were a wrestling show coming to a town two hours away, but you had only $35 in disposable income at the moment. Bret Hart, WWF Champion, is in the main event against Mo from Men on a Mission. The rest of the undercard is pretty bad, with the exception of Barry Horowitz vs. Aldo Montoya. Do you pay the $35 for a seat?

If not, you can't say that Bret Hart is a draw.

[Kane Knight]

^ Yeah, that.

But, honestly, show of hands: Imagine it's 1994. If there were a wrestling show coming to a town two hours away, but you had only $35 in disposable income at the moment. Bret Hart, WWF Champion, is in the main event against Mo from Men on a Mission. The rest of the undercard is pretty bad, with the exception of Barry Horowitz vs. Aldo Montoya. Do you pay the $35 for a seat?

If not, you can't say that Bret Hart is a draw.
Well, first off, I probably wouldn't be going to a wrestling show in 1994 if I only had 35 dollars disposable income. So ignoring that, I'd say no. But then, using me as a model, nobody in the last 20 years has been a draw. EEEEEEEEEver.

[DaveWadding]

Hell yeah I would. because Bret is G-O-D.

[Kane Knight]

Anyway, people too often confuse "spouting off like you have tourettes" with "Telling it like it is."

Too often, Flair's comments lack the latter in truth. He's got some points, but he muddles them with his continuous need to take shots at everyone.

"You're all faggots who need to die slow horrible deaths, but I'm just keeping it real."

That sort of thing. It'd be nice if we actually looked at his comments for what they were, instead of just sticking our noses up his ass and proclaiming him "the man," for having the balls to say it.

Yeah, and the hobo who lives downtown in Putney is the man because he's got the balls to say that aliens removed his penis in a CIA-funded series of experiments on international superspies.

[Savio]

Hey Brock was a Draw too!

[Kane Knight]

You know who's a draw? Ric Flair ca 2005.

[YOUR Hero]

Kane Knight (http://www.tpww.net/forums/member.php?u=52)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_795998", true); </SCRIPT>
The Teflon Madonna

http://www.tpww.net/forums/image.php?u=52&dateline=1084499495 (http://www.tpww.net/forums/member.php?u=52)



Posts: 63,338
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How did you get so many posts? Don't you have a life??

[Kane Knight]

How did I get the name "Teflon Madonna?" :wtf:

[The Mackem]

Probably from your parents, that's where I got mine.

[Kane Knight]

Touché.

[Rob]

"Bret Hart never drew a dime," says Flair. "

:lol:

Ok buddy

I found that one pretty funny too.

[Rob]

Just for the record, when Bret Hart was on top of the WWF and they were doing 4000-6000 houses, Flair was struggling to be on top in WCW where they drew even less including for TV tapings with FREE admission.

Vince McMahon put Bret Hart in the main event spot for 2 WrestleMania's. He didn't even have faith to put Ric Flair in the main event when he was the bloody champ!

[PullMyFinger]

Bret Hart was a draw, and even bigger in Canada. If he wasn't a draw, there would be no WWE right now b/c it would've floundered during the mid 90s.

[Kane Knight]

Just for the record, when Bret Hart was on top of the WWF and they were doing 4000-6000 houses, Flair was struggling to be on top in WCW where they drew even less including for TV tapings with FREE admission.

Vince McMahon put Bret Hart in the main event spot for 2 WrestleMania's. He didn't even have faith to put Ric Flair in the main event when he was the bloody champ!
:y:

[Corkscrewed]

The Undertaker carried me through the match. Funniest thing I've read all day. Take carrying Flair in a match. :rofl:

He's mostly right, though I disagree about his comments about Foley and Bret. Well, the spirit that they're said in.

[Rob]

If he thinks Bret wasn't a draw for real than that's fine. But then he needs to take a look in the mirror and realise he is even less than that.

[John la Rock]

ya saying Bret wasn't a draw is like saying Hogan wasn't a draw

[The Outlaw]

Of course he was a draw for the 12 year old kids at the time.

Nahh, he was a draw but he's a little crybaby. No, saying Bret wasn't a draw isn't the same thing there sir.

Ric Flair is the man as well though so I dunno.

[FourFifty]

I do believe that what I'm about to say has been said at least 5783405743095734 times on this thread already. I just want to be number 5783405743095735.

With much respect to Ric Flair, I think he owes Mick Foley a little bit more respect. Foley has done things that other people wouldn't dream of. He was the standard for Hardcore wrestling, and he didn't need to put his body on the line as many times as he did.
Foley gave it his all for the fans. Flair gave it his all for the fans. The mainline thing is they each gave it their all in their own ways. Foley did things I thought I'd never see and Flair said things I thought I'd never hear.
He owes Mick Foley more respect than he gives him. So what if Mick Foley isn't the best "wrestler." Who the hell said the wrestling bizz is about wrestling? Foley is a showman, a stuntman, and someone who gave this industry everything he had, and then some. Mick Foley is the best at what he does.

[jjmoney21]

hey just look, flair was good back in the NWA days, and who gives a crap that he has held the title so long anyway. Flair has never drawn that big anyway, when the WCW was drawing big it was the NWO drawing so many people. Hogan in the late 80's and early 90's were drawing. And about having the wrestlemania at Caesars palace, Hogan was still there, so thats still a shitty argument. Look at this year, the Staples Center only 20,000 fans, thats pretty crappy for a Wrestlemania. Your best draws have been Hogan, Andre, Austin/Rock attitude era's.

[Kane Knight]

Foley is a showman, a stuntman, and someone who gave this industry everything he had, and then some. Mick Foley is the best at what he does.
So why complain about Flair's comments of Foley as a WRESTLER?

He is a stuntman and a showman, and Flair takes objection to him being Glorified in wrestling terms?

I'm not a fan, but let's think about this: A guy whose greatest moment in most people's eyes was his fall off a steel cage, who's touted as a great wrestler.

(I'm a Foley fan, don't get me wrong. Just use some common fucking sense, people).

[Rob]

I feel sorry for Flair because the more he goes on in the ring and the more he continues to embarrass himself outside the ring with stupid interviews, the more he is crapping on his own legacy. I'd go as far as to say he barely has one now. A lot of fans are just going to forget the good days he had and remember the last couple of years.

[Rob]

So why complain about Flair's comments of Foley as a WRESTLER?

He is a stuntman and a showman, and Flair takes objection to him being Glorified in wrestling terms?

I'm not a fan, but let's think about this: A guy whose greatest moment in most people's eyes was his fall off a steel cage, who's touted as a great wrestler.

(I'm a Foley fan, don't get me wrong. Just use some common fucking sense, people).

Flair made out that Foley is only good for jumping off cages and he would have been shit without it. People took exception.

Since his match with Vader in 1994, when did Flair last have an excellent match? He had a pretty good one with Bret Hart and a half decent one with HHH but that's it.

[MVP]

How can anyone say that Bret Hart was never a draw?

Bret Hart was the most reliable worker in WWF his entire career. He only missed 2 shows of the several thousand in which he's wrestled, and could carry the lousiest wrestler to a decent match. One example is Summerslam 92 against Bulldog (I'm not saying he's a lousy wrestler, but he wasn't in good shape at the time), and FLAIR HIMSELF said to Bret once that it was the greatest match he's ever seen; so he contradicts himself by saying that Bret never drew a dime. Sure, the crowd was huge cause it was the first WWF PPV in England, but Bret helped make that match draw big time.

Another example is his match against Diesel at Survivor Series 95 where he won the WWF title. It was decent for a Kevin Nash match. I bet it didn't draw well, but that's cause Diesel was champion for so long, and was failing to draw the big crowds. That's one of the reason why the title was put on Bret. He was one of the few guys that actually COULD draw in 94-96.

You guys can blame Bret for not being able to draw as champion, but WWF was shit during his title reigns cause the whole product was terrible. WWF relied on Bret to take the ball and roll with it whenever they needed him, and he always succeeded because he could put on a 5 Star match, and had excellent charisma, which helped him draw better than anyone else. I know that's not saying much since the other main eventers were HBK and Diesel, but WWF didn't have the notoriety it had when Hogan, Austin, and Rock were champs.

So before you say that Bret Hart couldn't draw, look at the whole business when he was champ. Bret Hart kept the business alive.

[Kane Knight]

Flair made out that Foley is only good for jumping off cages and he would have been shit without it. People took exception.

Since his match with Vader in 1994, when did Flair last have an excellent match? He had a pretty good one with Bret Hart and a half decent one with HHH but that's it.
Do you think Foley would be anywhere near as big without the HIAC match in which he "jumped off the cage?"

I understand why people are offended, but this seems to be his crowning moment in the eyes of the mainstream.

[Joe Kerr]

Sometimes words arnt enough time to bring out the flair ass

http://img143.exs.cx/img143/3470/new12nv.jpg

[Rob]

Do you think Foley would be anywhere near as big without the HIAC match in which he "jumped off the cage?"

I understand why people are offended, but this seems to be his crowning moment in the eyes of the mainstream.

To be honest, I don't know either way. I can see both arguements. However, it was hardly the only thing he did in his career. Foley had great matches without diving off cages. And Foley diving off a cage made Triple-H. Flair forgets that part.

[FourFifty]

So why complain about Flair's comments of Foley as a WRESTLER?

Because the following people are/were seen as wrestlers, and Flair didn't say anything.

The Big Show- 500 pounds of crap in a 400 pound sack. Yeah, he has been in better shape before, but I'm talking about within the past 5 years for the Show... 500 pounds of crap in a 400 pound sack.

Goldberg- Don't even get me started....

Yokozuna- With much respect to the big man, he was a gimmick who sat on people.

Vinnie Mac Daddy- He got buffed up just to step in the ring a few times and have his ass handed to him. He should stay outside the ring.

Shane O'Mac- Much like Foley, you ask people about your fav. Shane memory, and they'll tell you "when he jumped off of something high!"

"Superfly" Jimmy Snuka- (see above)

Hulk Hogan- "My grandmother can throw a better leg drop!" <i>-Lou Thez</i>

Rey Mysterio- I love the luchador, he's an awesome preformer, but that's not wrestling.



Now aside from The Big Show everyone who I've named is a wrestler who I respect and love to watch, either in the ring or behind the mic. I guess how I see things is if he's going to knock on someone for not being a wrestler in the wrestling bizz, knock on them all. You don't need to be a good wrestler to make it big.

<i>*Edit- Gonna add one more person to that list*
"The Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers- I can't recall the exact quote but Lou Thez said that he wasn't a good wrestler, but he was the best behind the mic</i>