Is wrestling on its way out?

[Kane Knight]

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but it seems like it's a question worth investigating. While I'm not ready to start handing out doomsday flyers, I do think that there's a downward slump that needs to be looked at.

To clarify:

Wrestling: Herein will refer to televised professional wrestling, as in the WWF/E, TNA, WCW. The fate of pro wrestling itself is a different story, as I doubt indy promotions are going anywhere.

It's my opinion that wrestling has just gotten a potential kick in the ass. With the WWE unable to sell Spike on continuing their TV time, with it looking like Smackdown's in jeopardy, they migtht have finally hit a big enough low that they've gotten their asses in gear. In fact, I've found the programming over the past few weeks to be an upturn.

However, if business DIDN'T pick up before a Wrestlemania, I'd be a little surprised. I think that the next few weeks will be crucial in terms of the direction pro wrestling takes. The WWE is on a high right now post-WM, and could get some serious attention if its programming continues to pick up.

Further, if TNA is smart, they will step it up (If they are legitimately seeking a better TV slot), in hopes of selling the appeal of the WWE without the prices. While I'm concerned about the lackluster booking of TNA, it could be a viable prospect if they don't run themselves out of business.

There's also the Turner card, which is thus far rumour. Perhaps Ted will get involved when his non-competition clause is up, either funding TNA, or farming up another promotion. Ted's money could be a big asset, provided someone competent was driving.

However, the current state of the WWE is questionable, and TNA's basically WCW with a new name and less exposure. Smackdown! is a B-Show, and barely worth that a lot of the time. It's very bland, with only a few talents who actually make for any appeal (Who are usually on velocity, jobbing, or opening the show). We have jack for options right now, as we can choose the monopoly or reward an inferior product.

[PullMyFinger]

:y:

I just about agree with what you said...I mean there's nothing I can disagree with. I've been stating similar thoughts around other threads here in the last few weeks.

Wrestling seems to be on an upward slope the last few weeks, and if people play their cards right...yes it'll grow again. However, if WWE drops the ball, TNA doesn't get a slot on Spike, and Turner says screw wrestling...WWE will dive down the shitter..and wrestling will be in one terrible shithole and on it's way out...well near it at least.

[KayfabeMan]

I agree with that, and have been saying that to anyone who'd listen for the longest now. Unfortunately, most of them didn't even notice it until points were brought up, like you did in your post.

It ruins every aspect of the business, not only in the ways you mentioned above, but in other ways - especially involving the indies. With general interest in wrestling fading in many places, it makes it harder for indies to run, and also for schools to remain in business [with few or without any students]. With less and less indies running, it makes it even harder for guys to find work, especially with no major options left to try to get work with.

With less interest / schools, less people will train, therefore leaving remaining indy feds with next to no one working the shows, in addition to next to no one attending them. It's been said (and proven) that this is the lowest that pro-wrestling has been EVER, and it's been, and continues to be, a very vicious tailspin that wrestling is in. Like you said, if shit doesn't change soon, it's going to get even worse.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't feel like posting 4 paragraphs or anything but I will say this.

You mentioned TNA trying to sell the same appeal of WWE without the cost. I don't see how TNA could ever have the appeal of WWE. WWE will always have that appeal and mystique that TNA just never can compete with. The day TNA begins winning a ratings war with WWE marks the begining of the end of pro wrestling. WWE just has a "way" about it that transcends the writing, the wrestling quality, the star power, the T & A... anything. And if that "way" were to go away, I can't imagine what kind of state pro wrestling would be in.

[PureHatred]

You mentioned TNA trying to sell the same appeal of WWE without the cost. I don't see how TNA could ever have the appeal of WWE. WWE will always have that appeal and mystique that TNA just never can compete with.

That's the most idiotic, markish statement I'v ever seen. The WCW destroyed the WWF for more than 18 months straight, ratings wise. The nWo is the reason wrestling got its jumpstart in the late 90's, and the entire Attitude era was a direct rip-off of the kind of storylines ECW had been runing for years. "That certain something..." :roll: Gay. If TNA ever got its shit together and they actually do manage to talk Spike into giving thema TV slot at a discount rate, there's no reason they shouldn't compete with the WWE.

[PureHatred]

As for the actual topic: I can see where the concern comes from, but I don't think its warranted, really.

The WWE, from all reports, ddn't ge tthe amount of money from USA that they wanted to get from Spike, but they did get a significant raise from their last TV deal. Plus, the Saturday Night slot on NBC means some mainstream exposure.

House show numbers have been very steady lately.

The huge catalog of programming they have from the ECW and NWA/WCW means that they have a constant source of income. Besides WWE on DirctTV (and I honestly don't know whether or not that is makiing them any $ right now; I just haven't run across that information) they could release some sort of collector's DVD every month of the year if they wanted. The Flair and ECW DVD's were huge successses. can you imagine how many units they would move if they released a Hogan, Sting, Bret Hart, or Best of Starcade 2-disk set?

They have nearly 18 months to renegotiate a deal with UPN for Smackdown. Now, if it doesn't happen on UPN, I could see where the WWE would have problems finidng a home for that show. But if Vince really values the brand extension, he'll just take less money to put the show on USA or PAX or something. If you start seeing wholesale roster cuts around Summer of next year, you know there's problems there.

And the WWE's movie division is probably going to be surprisingly profitable. Vince isn't making $100 million blockbusters; he's going to make economical action movies that play to the strength of an established fanbase and fro that alone major ditributors like Blockbuster, etc are going to carry everything he puts out. WWE produsts are always among the tops in rentals and sales.

So yeah, from a business standpoint, the WWE is as stable right now as they've ever been. They really are a multimedia conglomerate, and it would take an astronomical amount of disasters to happen to put them in a position where they would be anywhere near going under.

[Bad Company]

I think wrestling has been out for a while.

[PureHatred]

As for the rest of the wrestling world, indies aren't ging anywhere. Companies that had so-called cult followings a few years ago like RoH, G,PW and JAPW are well established at this point. And there are always companies springing up that as long as they offer quality matches have a shot at success. Hell, the fact that the 'IWC' has become so pervasive that a company can runs their shows out of a school gym and still reach a nationwide audience through sales of their DVDs and various wrestling chat sites is an advantage that indy companies didn't have even 10 years ago.

As for TNA, they're currently running with a blank check from those Panda investors. They're bieng careless with their money and their talent, and they've blown every opportunity given to them. There's not a TV executive on the planet that would look at their programming right now and want to give them a national slot on primetime, even at a discounted rate. So guess what? If they don't succeed, its because at this point they don't deserve to succeed.

That being said, if they straighten out the booking, TNA has enough established names and god knows they have enough young talent that somebody is going to give them a TV deal. Better writing and the better production values that would come from a slot on primetime would makes them a legit competitor for the WWE.

And I really don't think that there's any question that once Ted Turner is legally able to, he's going to be involved in wrestling again. He may not start his own company, but he would very easily invest in taking a regional promotion to a national level.

So, despite all the doom and gloom you're feeling right now, (which is weird, because I, like you, feel like the WWE's shows have been pretty solid for months now) there's a pretty good chance that in the next year or so you could have WWE, an improved TNA, and Turner's company in prime slots on TV.

Big Time Wrestling isn't going anywhere. If it survived the state of the industry in the late 80's/early 90's, this will be a piece of cake.

[Corkscrewed]

While I'll be disappointed if WWE suddenly loses TV spots, I'd laugh because they deserve it.

I don't think there's anything to worry about... but if they lose SD!, it'll be the end of the brand split, and I'm sure all three hardcore brand reunion proponents will orgasm.

[PullMyFinger]

I agree with that, and have been saying that to anyone who'd listen for the longest now. Unfortunately, most of them didn't even notice it until points were brought up, like you did in your post.

It ruins every aspect of the business, not only in the ways you mentioned above, but in other ways - especially involving the indies. With general interest in wrestling fading in many places, it makes it harder for indies to run, and also for schools to remain in business [with few or without any students]. With less and less indies running, it makes it even harder for guys to find work, especially with no major options left to try to get work with.

With less interest / schools, less people will train, therefore leaving remaining indy feds with next to no one working the shows, in addition to next to no one attending them. It's been said (and proven) that this is the lowest that pro-wrestling has been EVER, and it's been, and continues to be, a very vicious tailspin that wrestling is in. Like you said, if shit doesn't change soon, it's going to get even worse.
I disagree with one statement in your post....that wrestling is at the lowest it's ever been right now. I think early/middle 90s wrestling was at an all time low. I mean just now...Raw/Smackdown produces #s of 3.0-4.0. During the early/middle 90s, Raw was generating a mere 1.5-3.0 rating.

[Kane Knight]

While I'll be disappointed if WWE suddenly loses TV spots, I'd laugh because they deserve it.

I don't think there's anything to worry about... but if they lose SD!, it'll be the end of the brand split, and I'm sure all three hardcore brand reunion proponents will orgasm.
http://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

[#1-norm-fan]

That's the most idiotic, markish statement I'v ever seen. The WCW destroyed the WWF for more than 18 months straight, ratings wise. The nWo is the reason wrestling got its jumpstart in the late 90's, and the entire Attitude era was a direct rip-off of the kind of storylines ECW had been runing for years. "That certain something..." :roll: Gay. If TNA ever got its shit together and they actually do manage to talk Spike into giving thema TV slot at a discount rate, there's no reason they shouldn't compete with the WWE.

lol. TNA competing with WWE and WCW competing with WWE is about as different as night and day.

WCW never had to start from scratch against the dominant WWF. WCW/NWA was always SOME competition to the WWF. WWE won that war and no company could come along and seriously compete with them now unless WWE lost all that mystique behind it somehow. Just watch and see.

The future of wrestling depends on WWE and WWE alone. It's a sad fact for all the TNA fans to face but that's the way it is gonna be. Just look at it this way... if WWE were to suddenly fold, do you think pro wrestling could survive the way it is right now with TNA? And I don't mean TNA right now but rather TNA at it's very best.

[Kane Knight]

lol. TNA competing with WWE and WCW competing with WWE is about as different as night and day.

WCW never had to start from scratch against the dominant WWF. WCW/NWA was always SOME competition to the WWF. WWE won that war and no company could come along and seriously compete with them now unless WWE lost all that mystique behind it somehow. Just watch and see.

The future of wrestling depends on WWE and WWE alone. It's a sad fact for all the TNA fans to face but that's the way it is gonna be. Just look at it this way... if WWE were to suddenly fold, do you think pro wrestling could survive the way it is right now with TNA? And I don't mean TNA right now but rather TNA at it's very best.
What TNA needs to do to stand a chance at competing with the WWE:

1) Not go bankrupt
2) get a timeslot. 3 PM doesn't count.
3) Not go head to head with the WWE ANY TIME SOON.
4) For God's sake, push what meager amounts of talent they have!
5) tour.
6) Try some booking. I hear it really works for the big guys.
7) Try some storylines. This "eenie meenie miney moe" shit is getting tiresome.
8) If they do some of that, they MIGHT build up a fanbase and be capable of getting to the point of "competition."

However, they still won't be MNW-level material. In short, I think you're right. The odds against TNA becoming a real threat are slim (Though we can hope).

[LK]

I very, very much doubt that TNA will ever compete with the WWE. I have my doubts as to whether or not they will be around long enough to compete with the WWE. I think this way because of a few things.

1) What do you think will happen when the WWE comes calling? I would be willing to bet that up to 90% of the TNA roster would happily pack their bags and head for the WWE if they were to call and express and interest. It's already happened with Kazarian and I'm sure it will happen again.

2) The backstage ongoings sound remarkably similar to WCW at a time. The locker room split in half is one report that I have heard. Some workers not happy with the booking by Rhodes. I'm sure that a number of them aren't happy with Jarrett being number one all the time.

3) The commentary team are so annoying. Tenay and West - they are not cool. West in particular irritates me. I used to kind of tolerate Tenay but he's becoming just as bad as Mr West.

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, Wrestling is definately not at an all-time low. Imagine right now, but 10 x worse in the early 90's, from a financial and creative standpoint.

The thing about back then was most of us probably didn't 2nd guess what they were feeding us with thier product. We just accepted it and didn't complain, unlike today.

The WWE isn't going anywhere and they bring in more then enough revenue to cover them. Since they bring in the revenue, they will have advertisers on board, so the TV deal should be fine.

What's missing in the entire business right now is that there's nothing really there that gets people talking. It's just really bland kind of storylines. Nothing where your casual fan would go "That was so awesome, I can't wait until next week." I mean a lot of us on here watch cause we've been watching for so long that it's just programmed in us now.

Remember, it's the "stories" that usually sell, not the "wrestling." Stuff like Taker crucifying Austin you guys on here might of said "Man, this is ridiculous, I just want to watch wrestling." Well that's fine, but you're in a minority there. I remember the contraversy that got and I remember kids at my school, who weren't even fans, talking about that. Hey, bad publicity or good publicity is still publicity and at the end of the day, the ratings, PPV buys, etc.. were really high, so something clicked with people.

That's something TNA and WWE need right now. They need something that's interesting basically. Not rehashed stroylines or just this guy feuds with this guy and they fight at the PPV. It's just real generic right now is all I'm trying to say.

[Savio]

I'tll be a cold day when wrestling dies. Thankfully winter isn't for another 7 months.

[KayfabeMan]

I disagree with one statement in your post....that wrestling is at the lowest it's ever been right now. I think early/middle 90s wrestling was at an all time low. I mean just now...Raw/Smackdown produces #s of 3.0-4.0. During the early/middle 90s, Raw was generating a mere 1.5-3.0 rating.

Yes, but wrestling in general was much more widely accepted and generated more attention. WWF and WCW talents popped up in all sorts of TV shows & media on a regular basis, and drew bigger numbers to events. Summerslam in 1993 drew pretty much the same number of fans that 2005's Royal Rumble & No Way Out events did combined.

Besides, not all of the numbers were like that. WCW Clash of The Champions events throughout the 1990's consistently drew very solid ratings - save for a few events. WWF was mainly lacking in ratings, as they are right now.

Marketing was also greater in the early 1990's, with wrestling being licensed in every aspect - and more merchandise being available just about anywhere you went. The 'indy scene' was even doing far better for itself [as a whole], with attendances being high on a regular basis - even without a card full of names or glorified indy 'talents'. You also had many more options available in general for guys to make a living at.

The guys were also making more money, so business couldn't have been too bad - especially considering the fact that most people were being paid by the numbers coming in to the events, while a lot of guys today have guaranteed contracts. There were also quite a few more wrestlers employed who made a living strictly from wrestling.