So Euro football fans...RESPOND

[BCWWF]

The little incident in Milan the other day has been a field day so far for US media and sports analysts. They are using it to make the Pistons-Pacers brawl look not so bad. I even heard yesterday, "The fans like that show why the people in the United States don't want soccer to be the national sport."

Defend yourselves. I'm only asking because I don't agree with the medias standpoint on this whole thing, and nobody is going to go digging through the Football Thread to find it. The American responses in this thread should also give you a good idea of what people make of it here in case you see ESPN or something.

[Cactus Sid]

It was disgraceful and no football fan in their right mind would defend it.

However, I would say that it is typical of the US media to make something which would best be described as "non-american" look like the absolute worst thing in the world. I'd say bombing the hell out of defenceless countries is a lot worse than a minority of idiots throwing flares onto the pitch.

Football in 2005 sees nothing like the trouble it did in the 80s, and grounds in the UK virtually never see problems. Unfortunatly, the hardcore fans in Italy, Spain, Greece and Turkey do cause some problems, but it is not as big a problem as the US media is probably making it out to be.

[The Answer]

The little incident in Milan the other day has been a field day so far for US media and sports analysts. They are using it to make the Pistons-Pacers brawl look not so bad. I even heard yesterday, "The fans like that show why the people in the United States don't want soccer to be the national sport."

Defend yourselves. I'm only asking because I don't agree with the medias standpoint on this whole thing, and nobody is going to go digging through the Football Thread to find it. The American responses in this thread should also give you a good idea of what people make of it here in case you see ESPN or something.

Their is no defence for that kind of thing. I agreed with PTI's approach of the topic yesturday. In Europe their really is only one sport that people focus on unlike North America. In Italy, soccer rules all and people take soccer as seriously as poltics. Personally when I visit my native home of Portugal I see this kind of thing all the time. People beat the shit out of each other over soccer conflicts. Hell one individual even shot a flare into the opposing fans side and killed someone. People just take the sport really seriously....

[SammyG]

Eh, shit like that happens in greece all the time.. sad but im used to it

[Nervous Ferret]

Someone just tell me why so many fucking people were allowed to have flares? THat is so lfihdgealkfdgbnhkj where is the security?

[toxic rooster]

Different kulcha

[Gonzo]

Anytime shit like this happens in any sport it is pathetic. There is absolutely no excuse that can be made for any of it. The media will be the media, ignore it.

[BCWWF]

The reason I am not ignoring it is because the media just kicked soccer in the balls right as the MLS is starting to get it and USA is in World Cup qualifying. They wen't beyond just talking about the incident, they attacked the sport at a whole.

[Gonzo]

Thats why I ignore it. Just a blatant example of media bias. My opinions won't be swayed by a newspaper or radio personality spouting off at the mouth. I will form my opinions on my feelings about situations for myself. I don't think that soccer is any less of a sport or anything because of the incident. I still could care less about soccer, but that isn't because it sucks, just because I don't find it interesting.

The only way to prevent shit like this is better security, especially at the gates. If the media wants to take this and spin it for their own motivations then let them. Anyone with half a brain knows what they're saying is bullshit.

[BCWWF]

The problem is that people buy right into it

[Gonzo]

Let them be ignorant. You and I both know that what the media is saying is utter bullshit. The actions of the fans of that game do not waver my opinion of soccer one bit. Nobody can really change the face of the media, they'll say what they're going to. That definitely doesn't mean they're right but you shouldn't let it bother you.

The media will always be the media. If people want to buy into that then its their choice.

[Wengerland]

I even heard yesterday, "The fans like that show why the people in the United States don't want soccer to be the national sport."

hahaha that's gold, if soccer fans in the US decide to do the same thing as those Inter fans then that's their own stupidity. It's not like American teams play Italian sides anyway so it'll just be shown by the media and if some fans have that copycat attitude and decide to do it then they've only got themselves to blame.

Can't defend it at all, they did have some big decisions go against them but if everyone reacted in that way then those sorts of things would be a weekly occurance.

Difference between English and Italian matches in terms of crowd trouble is the policing. In Italy, as those events showed, the police don't do enough and seem scared of the ultras/hardcore fans. In England the police/stewards are, in my mind, too strict. There's people thrown out for really nothing offences, like we've had people thrown out for singing, taunting opposing fans (just a bit of banter, nothing threatening or anything) and things like that. Fair enough that stops any trouble, but we need to be allowed some freedom so we can get an atmosphere.

[toxic rooster]

I remember hearing at a Man U away match a while back, they were going to start throwing out fans because they were all standing.

That's like, too far.

[Dazz]

It was disgraceful and no football fan in their right mind would defend it.

However, I would say that it is typical of the US media to make something which would best be described as "non-american" look like the absolute worst thing in the world. I'd say bombing the hell out of defenceless countries is a lot worse than a minority of idiots throwing flares onto the pitch.

Football in 2005 sees nothing like the trouble it did in the 80s, and grounds in the UK virtually never see problems. Unfortunatly, the hardcore fans in Italy, Spain, Greece and Turkey do cause some problems, but it is not as big a problem as the US media is probably making it out to be.

Agree with the whole thing.

Chelsea no longer have any firms, nor do any clubs. Back in part of the seventies and eighties if you went to an away game, the second you got off the train till the second you got in the ground you were fighting to get to see the match. There were famous fights like the United Vs Cardiff one and mor elikely others that I haven't read about.

Us Vs Tottenham used to be a right rowdy encounter, but now there is so many policemen nothing will happen.

When I went to the Nou Camp in February I noticed the lack of security and security camera's (they have no roof to attach them to) and as a result there was a fight in which a Chelsea fan in the Barca end got battered when we scored and it wasn't broken up.

When I went there five years ago they had loo rools in between every seat of the home teams seats, to encourage them to throw it onto the pitch, I know they are harmless but still. When Figo made his return they had whistles in amongst every seat to blow everytime he got the ball, and if I recall correct he got struck by a missile.

When England played Italy in Rome in the World Cup 98 qualifiers the Italian police were apparently taking coins, wallets, keys, phones, cameras litereally everything out of their pockets, ridicolous. They turn a blind eye to the home team though. Police are scared to mix with the hardcore Italian fans so they just let them be through fear of being hurt. Apparently at Udinese they are going to experiment with having stewards and security cameras like we have in England, if successful it will still take time to catch on in ther grounds.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

When I went there five years ago they had loo rools in between every seat of the home teams seats, to encourage them to throw it onto the pitch, I know they are harmless but still. When Figo made his return they had whistles in amongst every seat to blow everytime he got the ball, and if I recall correct he got struck by a missile.



They threw a pig's head at him once.

It's a reflection of how seriously they take the sport. For a lot of Latin countries football is like a religion, and we all know how ugly religious zealots can get :roll: Not that that's an excuse but I'm honestly not sure if american sports with their franchise system can be comprared to football clubs who in one sense *are* the local area. Dunno, that's probably a different discussion.

I'm just reading that Inter are sueing one of their own fans who was arrested in the aftermath of the flare-throwing. I honestly can't say I've ever heard of that before.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Also it really has to be noted that in this case as in most other cases when stuff like this occurs it is a minority, it is by far and away not the general rule of thumb.

[McDoogle]

When England played Italy in Rome in the World Cup 98 qualifiers the Italian police were apparently taking coins, wallets, keys, phones, cameras litereally everything out of their pockets, ridicolous. They turn a blind eye to the home team though. Police are scared to mix with the hardcore Italian fans so they just let them be through fear of being hurt. Apparently at Udinese they are going to experiment with having stewards and security cameras like we have in England, if successful it will still take time to catch on in ther grounds.

I remember that it was crazy and a huge stink was raised how the Italians were buyest and the police wanted the italian fans to hurt the english fans. Morons.

But yea it was inexuseable and everyone knows im an Inter supporter and I was shocked and disgusted. Sad day.

[yianni]

I'm gonna go off on a sort of different rant here, so have a gander and see what you reckon.

Australia is the same as America, they use any anti-football news as a ways of portraying football as a bad "wog" sport which Australians shouldn't play or go attend games. You know why? To protect their little sports in cricket, AFL, rugby etc.

Guys, this is the one thing which fucking shits me up the wall. NEVER do we hear of any positive stuff about football here by the mainstream free-to-air networks. Here we have channels 10, 9, 7 (wankers) then the ABC (they're ok) then SBS (the migrant network for the ethnic communities here). Apart from SBS who dedicate their sports coverage to football (no surprise), the rest NEVER EVER say anything good about the game here locally, but as soon as there is ONE incident, no matter how minor it is, it's all over the news.

Newspapers are the same. They put maybe a few paragraphs or half a page report on the very last pages of the sport. They give the sport no fucking respect whatsoever, dismissing it as a fucking migrant sport, which too many "fucken wogs" play. Then the cunts have the nerve to recognise AFL or rugby players with ethnic background!

With the Inter Milan incident, you know what happened? It was the first news item in the papers and news. Fair enough too, it's a disgrace and should be publicised, but what about the same fucking level of recognition when something goes right in the sport!

My team who I follow here in Australia, South Melbourne Hellas, a Greek-backed club, was on the verge of extinction a little over a year ago. Somehow, the members dug deep, the club survived, rebuilt itself by recruiting young players, and 9 games into the season are sitting on top of the table with no debt whatsoever, and getting enormous support? FUCK NO.

Yet this weekend we're due to play against a team called Preston Lions/Makedonia who are backed by Macedonians or FYROMians as us Greeks call them. Now there's the potential of being crowd trouble as politics becomes involved as well as the on-field game. I have gotten word that EVERY single one of the networks will be there with cameras waiting to capture any footage. No matter how minor an incident that may occur, it will be blown out of proportion and be all over the news on Monday.

It shits me up the fucking wall how these fucking cunts are so anti-football when it is the greatest sport in the fucking world. These cunts know how much potential football has to be a massive sport in Australia and they bring it down with every opportunity. So what if ethnic communities have their own clubs? It's why it's the best fucking sport in the world, because it is the world game and played in every country in the world, and these cunts know that they're fucked if Australia makes the World Cup cos the national team will get worldwide exposure in the World Cup, and they can't hack that their shitty AFL game isn't cared about by anyone else apart from Australians.

Watch this space guys, if ANY incident happens on Sunday between Hellas and Makedonia it will be news, I'll post up the reports etc. If no incidents occur I guarrantee fuck-all reports will be made. Fucking moronic Australian media. DEATH TO THEM ALL!

END RANT! :-\

[Rob]

I'll be quick...

Americans are pussy holes.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I laughed my balls off when I was watching it.

It's an Italian problem, not a wider football issue. The Italians accept it as part of their culture. UEFA need to send a message out to them that it is not accepted by the wider footballing world.

Last weekend there was a huge riot between Lazio fans, far right wing fans who regularly racially abuse coloured players and make fascist salutes, and Livorno fans, far left wing fans and in whose town the Italian communist party was founded. Livorno's best player plays with a Che Guevara t-shirt underneath his kit and idolises him, while a lot of people witnessed Paolo Di Canio giving the fascist salute to the Lazio fans after the Rome derby.

Things like this are common place in Italy where left and right wing politics go together with the teams and tend to result in confrontation. The police would rather let everyone in the ground and then beat the shit out of them when they start up, rather than enforce any real security before a match.

Also, the Italian clubs do not own their own stadiums, the city municipals do, so the clubs cannot ban trouble-makers or kick fans out. It's up the police and the city. The clubs will be punished, ultimately, but it requires government legislation and tougher policing.

Inter should be banned from European football for 2 or 3 years and Italian clubs given a final warning. One more incident and they'll all be out for a year or two. That will force them, through financial pressures, to sort the problem out, because the Italian clubs cannot afford to miss out on European football. Their stars may look to go elsewhere, also.

[Dazz]

I too thought a three year ban would be fair. If it was an English club we'd have got the book thrown at us.

Also, MMM, thats what it was, I was thinking it was a cow's heart for some reason, but now you ahve said pigs head I am sure thats what it was.

[BCWWF]

In regards to what Yianni said, that is similar to what I was trying to say but about the US, not all the same though.

For the US, there has been a recent boost in the positive soccer media in the past month or two. With the big World Cup qualifier in Mexico City, it got national coverage and a big article in Sports Illustrated and other publications. Then there is the resurgence of the MLS, adding Chivas USA and Real Salt Lake, two clubs that should have good success in the MLS, then the Dallas Burn are now FC Dallas, and Landon Donovan is back in the MLS in the biggest market. I was excited, this is a big time in US soccer, and guys like Jay Mariotti etc. just kicked it in the groin by attacking the culture as a whole. Soccer in the United States isn't anything like it is in Italy, so its not worth comparing. That doesn't mean that there isn't enthusiasm though, most teams (if not all) have their own core of fans who bring their drums and sing songs and stuff, embrace it. Its a totally different thing and could pick up if people stopped hating on US Soccer for what happens other places.

[McDoogle]

I think a three year ban is definitly too strict. Okay there was no exuse for it but no one was seriously injured and yea the possibility was there for something serious to happen but still, three years is a tad too much. A year fine but not 3.

[Nervous Ferret]

sjfblehgfryfg they were throwing lit flares onto the field. Someone could have been seriously hurt. This was unacceptable. BAN THEM FOREVER.

[Dazz]

No, they won't learn from a year out of Europe, three years will teach the cretins, and more importantly the club. If ECG is right with what he says about the club not being able to ban trouble makers then it's fucking retarded. Thats the main source of Englands reputation abroad being good, because we detain known hooligans passports, Italy can't detain the passports as they don't recognise trouble makers. Similary on club level if anyone can enter and not be banned, they have to really step up stewards in the ground.

Three years encourages them to look at it closely to stop other Italian teams being morons.

[Jacko]

HMM SOCCERTAINMENT!!

MIDDLESBORO RED AND WHITE SOCKS!!

AND ADDED TIME MULTIBALL!

Bud Classic ;)

American Sports.. ;/..

[Rob]

No, they won't learn from a year out of Europe, three years will teach the cretins, and more importantly the club. If ECG is right with what he says about the club not being able to ban trouble makers then it's fucking retarded. Thats the main source of Englands reputation abroad being good, because we detain known hooligans passports, Italy can't detain the passports as they don't recognise trouble makers. Similary on club level if anyone can enter and not be banned, they have to really step up stewards in the ground.

Three years encourages them to look at it closely to stop other Italian teams being morons.

Italy can detain passports. There is no point though because pretty much the whole of Europe other than us can travel anywhere accross the continent without a passport since they have ID cards.

[Londoner]

I wonder when they will stop being allowed to use flares, that shit was just waiting too happen. A top class goalkeeper got hurt by them and couldve been severely burned, that shits just not cool.. but yeah i agree with the media thing. It's made me like football even more now though.

[toxic rooster]

What a shock, shit happened between preston and south melbourne

[yianni]

As promised guys, a bit of trouble (not enough to have the game abandoned) and as usual the fucking media have jumped all over it. As I said to a few mates at uni today "watch channel 7 news tonight, I bet you $50 their headline will be 'Soccer Shocker' ". Guess who's going to be pestering those cunts tomorrow for the 50 bucks? http://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif So predictable.


http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15003809%255E2883,00.html

Rival fans in pitch violence
Peter Desira
18apr05

TWO ethnically opposed teams are likely to play future games behind closed doors in empty stadiums after crowd violence marred a game in South Melbourne last night.

Soccer authorities are likely to enforce the measure after supporters of South Melbourne and Preston Lions invaded the pitch at the end of a Victorian Premier League game at Bob Jane Stadium.


They threw bottles and flares at each other until mounted police arrested ring leaders and, on horseback, herded the mob back over fences.

"The chief of police told me they won't sanction any further matches between the two clubs so, if the soccer authorities don't act, the issue may be forced by police," South Melbourne president George Donikian said last night.

Donikian, the Channel 10 newsreader, made passionate appeals before, during and after the game trying to calm supporters, but in the end admitted the behaviour of fans on the terracing was indefensible.

More than 45 police and another 40 security staff kept things largely under control until the crowd invasion, which was sparked by a last-minute Preston goal that gave them a surprise 1-0 win.

The match was the first league encounter in 12 years between South Melbourne, which attracts support largely from Melbourne's Greek community, and Preston Lions, almost exclusively backed by the Macedonian community.

The two neighbouring European countries have lingering bitter historic rivalry and the simmering unease between the two communities in Melbourne was brought to a head on and off the soccer field last night.

The match drew about 9000 fans and the tension was obvious, despite police ordering that the two sets of supporters be segregated at different ends of the pitch.

The kick-off was delayed by 15 minutes while officials took down politically motivated banners from the Preston end, which taunted South supporters with a "welcome to hell".

Also, security staff had to extinguish flares amid chanting and finger-pointing by the two sets of supporters.

The two club presidents pleaded for calm and the tension subsided once the game got under way, only to resume at half-time -- until Donikian went on the public address system warning that police would order the game be abandoned.

The second half eventually started and the match was headed for a goalless draw until Preston scored -- by former South Melbourne player Steve Manceski.

Before the end, South Melbourne asked its supporters to stay in the stadium for 15 minutes after the final whistle to let Preston fans leave.

But plans were thrown into chaos by the last-minute winner. South Melbourne fans invaded the pitch and advanced on Preston supporters who had jumped fences to celebrate with players.

Police on horseback got between supporters to restore calm and made arrests, but the situation disappointed soccer authorities.

One such authority was Manny Galanos, the chairman of the Football Federation of Victoria, who had insisted on additional precautions and security to avoid unrest.

Although the two clubs had not met in a competitive game for more than a decade, a friendly pre-season match between the two clubs in September 2002 to raise money for the Police Association was abandoned when Preston supporters invaded the pitch and clashed with police.

Preston and South are due to meet again this season in the return match at Preston, but last night's disturbing incidents could prompt FFV to order the fixture be played without any spectators being allowed into the stadium. Both clubs face fines of up to $10,000 for the 30 flares that were thrown on to the pitch.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5000156,00.jpg
Flare-up: Fans get ugly at Bob Jane Stadium.


I hope the club organises a press conference tomorrow and watch all the media flock to it. Then our president can ask them "where the fuck were all you cunts for the pre-game conference?" Fucking idiots. What was done was fucking disgraceful and an embarrassment but come on, if these cunts want to report the fucking negatives of our sport then they can report the fucking positives too. Fucking Australian fucking media.

[yianni]

I have calmed down a bit but I am still angry... here are some news reports of the incident

http://www.smfcboard.com/files/Ch7_News_Large.mp4 (http://www.smfcboard.com/files/Ch7_News_Large.mp4)

http://www.smfcboard.com/files/Ch10_5pm_Large.mp4 (http://www.smfcboard.com/files/Ch10_5pm_Large.mp4)

[yianni]

For once this cunt is spot on, usually he's full-on negative to our club trying to bring us down...this time I cannot argue with alot he has to say. I have underlined the bits I find fucking righteous:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15015184%255E2883,00.html

South's A-League bid doomed
Peter Desira
COMMENT
19apr05

SOUTH Melbourne's chances of ever being admitted to the A-League flew out the window with Sunday's crowd disturbance at Bob Jane Stadium.
http://www.news.com.au/newsicons/picture.gif Pictures (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0))

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</TD></TR><TR><TD width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle width=300><!-- AdSpace site=heraldsun&section=business&adsize=300x250&pagepos=1--><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.1 src="http://adserver.news.com.au/js.ng/site=heraldsun&section=business&adsize=300x250&pagepos=1"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ds.serving-sys.com/BurstingScript/ebBannerServing_65297.js"></SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT>http://bs.serving-sys.com/BurstingPipe/BannerSource.asp?FlightID=65297&Page=&PluID=0&Pos=9121 (http://bs.serving-sys.com/BurstingPipe/BannerRedirect.asp?FlightID=65297&Page=&PluID=0&Pos=9121)</NOSCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://bs.serving-sys.com/BurstingPipe/AdServerPipe.asp?param=%3CType%3ACommand%3BCode%3A14%3BobjRef%3AgEbCurBanner%3BFlightID%3A65297%3BPl uID%3A0%3BPage%3Awww.heraldsun.news.com.au%3BWebPageSource%3A0%3B%3E%3CType%3APlugin%3BAudioVersion% 3A1%3BFlashVersion%3A7%3BPlatform%3A4%3BBrowser%3A4%3BResolution%3A4%3B%3E&ord=990021522241781113917039063&CSVersion=5.6&BWVal=0&BWDTime=1113917039123"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ds.serving-sys.com/BurstingCachedScripts/ebBannerMain_58_5.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ds.serving-sys.com/BurstingCachedScripts/BTemplates_58_5/Banner.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ds.serving-sys.com/BurstingRes/Site-4649/Type-11/106172_224C82DB-0A3A-4369-9AC0-DC8CCE3246B5.js"></SCRIPT><OBJECT class=inlineimg id=ebReportingFlash title="Big Grin" style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; ██████████ absolute; HEIGHT: 0px" codeBase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=4,0,0,0 alt="" data=data:application/x-oleobject;base64,IGkzJfkDzxGP0ACqAGhvEzwhRE9DVFlQRSBIVE1MIFBVQkxJQyAiLS8vVzNDLy9EVEQgSFRNTCA0LjAgVHJ hbnNpdGlvbmFsLy9FTiI+DQo8SFRNTD48SEVBRD4NCjxNRVRBIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBlIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRleHQ vaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD13aW5kb3dzLTEyNTIiPjwvSEVBRD4NCjxCT0RZPg0KPFA+Jm5ic3A7PC9QPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo = border=0 classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000 name=ebReportingFlash>







































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</TD><TD width=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3 height=1><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=4 height=5><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="5"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The unrest during and immediately after South's 1-0 loss to Preston Lions provided new ammunition for soccer knockers, but more significantly doomed South to suburban soccer and never returning to the national or international stage it once enjoyed.



Make no mistake, Sunday's disturbance has been blown out of all proportion.

There were flares thrown during the Victorian Premier League game, there were supporters baying at each other for most of the game and there was an attempt at a pitch invasion that turned the end of the match into an unpleasant situation.

But Melbourne television channels coloured their follow-up news items yesterday with footage from past games or overseas disturbances and tarred local soccer with sweeping hooliganism that does not exist.

Local soccer doesn't need incidents such as Sunday's and the two clubs have to work hard to identify the culprits and ban them for life. But Melbourne loves opportunities to kick soccer in the guts and, every so often, there are mindless minorities who provide the ammunition.


There are similar yobbos who do the same at the cricket but, with soccer, the ethnic associations provide immediate cheap shots for calling the sport un-Australian and incapable of going mainstream.


Few dig deep enough to realise how hard soccer is working at cutting the ethnic ties and how far it has come in recent years. What will be ignored is that most of the 9000 spectators at the ground on Sunday were well behaved and few at the stadium -- myself included -- would have felt threatened.

That is not to excuse the mob charging the barricades on the terracing side. That is not to try to sweep aside the fact there is bitterness between the clubs.

That is not to rule out heavy sanctions to force the two clubs and the real supporters to be more vigilant in exposing and weeding out the culprits.

But at some stage soccer needs to be given an even chance to succeed in this country, without being hounded out at every opportunity.

Fortunately the new A-League, which will start in August, will be free of any ethnic associations and will diminish the opportunities for the hooligans to hop on to a political cause to justify their behaviour.

But that gets back to South Melbourne being the prime victim from Sunday.

South has been one of the biggest clubs in Australia and has been harbouring ambitions of becoming the second Melbourne club when the A-League is expanded in 2010.

The A-League had its reservations about the baggage South would bring with it. All those fears were realised on Sunday. Frank Lowy and John O'Neill won't touch an existing club in Melbourne as long as they're running the game in this country.