How Original?? *RAW Spoilers*

[XL]

So this week on Raw they started a tournament for the number 1 contendership!

Great idea! :y:

I love tournaments! :love:

Of course, apart from the fact that this is the 3rd one in as many months!

Yes THREE in the last THREE months! :rant:

Flip back to Feb, we had Cena winning a No1 tourney on SD to face JBL at WM21.

Post WM, another tourney is announced to find a no1 contender to Cena's newly won WWE Title, which of course JBL wins!

So on Raw, we have yet another tournament!!!!!

And we all know that HHH will win!

So what's the point????????????????????????????????

Is it just cos it's a quicker way to bury talent! Come on, we've had Xtian lose in th efirst round to a guy who's gimmick is further up Shit's creek than Chris Master's wrestling skills! Then they jobbed Jericho! Nothin new there I guess, but if anyone needs a big win it's him! and they jobbed him to a man who already has a title shot and who's recent actions shouldn't dictate a huge push! We have one of the young up and comers, Shelton Benjamin losing to HBK!

So here it is, our final 4...

HHH
HBK
Edge
Kane

Now didn't we have the top three in a fued only last year??

Come on WWE! Gimme something to get excited about?

Something different at least!

How about a Battle Royal?? Just for a change?

Maybe even an Elimination Chamber for No1 contender?

Hell a slighty different tourney? Why not team people up, have them in a match, if they win they face each other! something different!

Anyway, after writng this rant it looks like its been pointless because HHH didn't win!

Now that is something different!!!! :)

[Nervous Ferret]

HHH ain't winning. Actually I think he will, but he's eliminated. But he is "the game" so he can make up "the rules" and will most likely win anyway.

[loopydate]

I think a double-elimination tournament would be hot.

For example (SPOILERS HEREAFTER)

Tonight
Kane over Christian
Chris Benoit over Triple H
Shawn Michaels over Shelton Benjamin
Edge over Chris Jericho

RAW 5/9
Triple H over Christian (Christian eliminated :'( )
Chris Jericho over Shelton Benjamin (Benjamin eliminated)

RAW 5/16
Chris Benoit over Kane
Edge over Shawn Michaels

RAW 5/23
Triple H over Kane (Kane eliminated)
Shawn Michaels over Chris Jericho (Jericho eliminated :'( )

RAW 5/30
Chris Benoit over Edge

RAW 6/6
Triple H over Edge (Edge eliminated)

RAW 6/13
Triple H over Chris Benoit

RAW 6/20
Triple H over Chris Benoit (Benoit eliminated)

Vengeance 6/26
Triple H over Batista (:'( )

Of course, a double elimination tournament would mean a HHH win most likely, as there's no way he'd lose twice, so this tourney has its advantages.

Although I'm sure he's going to beat up Benoit or somebody and steal their spot.

[Corkscrewed]

HHH TAPPED!!!!!! :eek: :eek:

[XL]

See that would be at least slightly different!

Hell you could run something like the Double Jeopardy match that ECW had! That was a concept that always intregued me!

Just something a little different!

[loopydate]

Or how about a sixteen-man tournament?

Or a 24-man tournament where all the first round matches are 1-on-1, the second round is triple threat, and the final is a fatal fourway?

The RAW roster is so deep that there's no reason they couldn't expand beyond the same old 8-man bracket.

[Danny Electric]

What was the double jeopardy match?

[loopydate]

IIRC, there were two singles matches going on simultaneously. The winners of those matches fought each other immediately after.

[XL]

What was the double jeopardy match?

Dude you should know that! :nono:

But its what LPD said! :y:

[M. Banana]

HHH TAPPED!!!!!! :eek: :eek:

[Kane Knight]

Hey, Raw and Smackdown are different brands. You can't blame Raw for something Smackdown's done twice, that's the purview of the GMs.

:shifty:

[olympic hitman]

I'm just glad that Triple H lost in the tournament. When I seen Benoit coming out as HHH's opponent, I automatically thought he would win, wrong. A pleasant surprize and twist with Batista coming out and helping Benoit take care of Flair & HHH.

I doubt this will effect anything though. HHH will probably still face Batista @ Vengeance PPV. Sadly, Trips will probably still go on to win his 11th World Title. It would be for the best[for the RAW brand] if Triple H were traded to Smackdown and kept FAR away from the World Title. But, then again, that would probably just mean Triple H as the WWE Champion :n:

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm glad Triple H has lost. I hope they actually do something with this, and don't have it turn into a "Triple H somehow gets another title shot" scenario. NO ONE wants to see that again.

I'd personally have Benoit vs. HBK and Edge vs. Kane next week. HBK beats Benoit due to the concussion thing, and Edge beats Kane with some tomfulery, possibly a heel turn by Lita. Edge and HBK then have a match on RAW the next week, with HBK taking a win when Kane runs in and gets some revenge.

Then at Vengeance we have Batista vs. Shawn Michaels, Triple H vs. Chris Benoit in a Hell in a Cell, Edge vs. Kane in some kind of Gimmick Match, The Hurricane & Rosey vs. Muhammad Hassan & Khosrow Daivari & Shelton Benjamin vs. Chris Jericho in a 2/3 Falls Match.

[RemyRed]

I still think they'll write it so that Benoit is too injured to continue the tournament, therefore Triple H will still go on (I too, hope I am wrong).

[The CyNick]

Doesn't really matter that HHH lost. The focus of the show was still on HHH. MY guess is that this tourny is just for a title shot on a RAW, where HHH will interfere and get under Batista's skin to set up their HIAC match at Vengeance.

[Shaggy]

I was surprised that Trips actually lost....I guess it shows that they will somehow put him back in it since its already been said it him Vs Batista...Hell in a Cell at vengeance

[SuperSlim]

well there is still time to put him back in it. I mean SD! has their PPV to do then Raw so that leaves quite a few weeks

[Kane Knight]

Doesn't really matter that HHH lost. The focus of the show was still on HHH. MY guess is that this tourny is just for a title shot on a RAW, where HHH will interfere and get under Batista's skin to set up their HIAC match at Vengeance.
What he said. At the end of the day...If it's all about the Game...It doesn't matter if he loses.

[Londoner]

How did i know someone would complain about it? I remember a while ago everyone kept saying how much they loved oturnaments, now were getting them we complain there's too many. Can't please everyone i guess.

However, i'm also fearing they will say Benoit is too injured too continue, and put HHH back in.He'll be back there somehow someway eventually though.

[Kane Knight]

How did i know someone would complain about it? I remember a while ago everyone kept saying how much they loved oturnaments, now were getting them we complain there's too many. Can't please everyone i guess.

However, i'm also fearing they will say Benoit is too injured too continue, and put HHH back in.He'll be back there somehow someway eventually though.
Okay, I don't EVER remember a widespread mentioning of people's love for tournies.

[RGWhat316]

Tournaments may not be original, but for RAW it is. This is the first tournament on RAW that I can remember. Most of the number 1 contenderships on RAW are done with Battle Royals. So, I'm not complaining that there is a tournament to determine a number 1 contender.

[Londoner]

Okay, I don't EVER remember a widespread mentioning of people's love for tournies.


For some reason i do seem to remember people complaining there wont any tournies, i personally don't mind them..it really depends on how they're booked, not how many there are.

King of the ring was always shit cos it was booked poorly, but with this gold rush tourny, they seem to of booked it well so far so i don't see what the problem is. It flowed well through the show aswell cos you were wondering who's going to face who, though i don't get why they put HHH's name in the line up when he hadn't even faced anyone yet.

[Kane Knight]

Tournaments may not be original, but for RAW it is. This is the first tournament on RAW that I can remember. Most of the number 1 contenderships on RAW are done with Battle Royals. So, I'm not complaining that there is a tournament to determine a number 1 contender.
And you know what? I actually liked the "you don't know who your opponent is until their music hits" deal. It wasn't GREAT, but a nice touch.

[Kane Knight]

For some reason i do seem to remember people complaining there wont any tournies
Funny, I don't. And the point's kinda moot anyway. Duh, people are gonna be annoyed about different things.

Plus, one other major point. I like Cage Matches. I hated the idea of Lockdown.

See what I'm getting at here? One can actually like a concept and hate the execution/overuse.

[Londoner]

Yeah that's true, like i said you can't please everyone.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah that's true, like i said you can't please everyone.
Which falls into : See also "No Shit, Sherlock."

However, you have to realise that the complaint here isn't even about the tournies, it's the frequency of them.

[Londoner]

Yeah and notice my argument that it's not about how often they're done, but how well they're booked, in one of my messages above.

[Kane Knight]

I'm sorry, I thought that

How did i know someone would complain about it? I remember a while ago everyone kept saying how much they loved oturnaments, now were getting them we complain there's too many.
Meant

How did i know someone would complain about it? I remember a while ago everyone kept saying how much they loved oturnaments, now were getting them we complain there's too many.

[Kane Knight]

But to address the issue you bring up in terms of booking...


King of the ring was always shit cos it was booked poorly, but with this gold rush tourny, they seem to of booked it well so far so i don't see what the problem is. Okay, Chavlife...

Notice the original poster said

Great idea! :y:

I love tournaments! :love: And then went on to say something to the effect of "except they're overdoing it."

So maybe THAT'S the problem. Just a stab in the dark. I know not all of us have a fifth grade edumacation and the deductive skills to solve a Hardy Boys mystery, but let's imagine for a moment that he actually spelled out the problem, and imagine that it's...

...

...

...

Wait for it...

...

...

...

That the tournies are overdone

:eek: Shocking, I noes.

[Kane Knight]

Okay, I went too far.

I would like to apologise. I am aware that most wrestling fans lack the capacity for deductive reasoning or the educational background that would allow them to derive useful information from the things they read.

I am sorry for deriding people for the lack of basic English skills. It is unfair of me to expect it from you folks, and unfair for me to lord my own third grade skills over you all.

Apologies.

[olympic hitman]

In the end, does it matter that tournaments are "overdone" or whatever.

The "Gold Rush" tournament is the first RAW has done in awhile and it took the focus off of Triple H. It also helped put over younger talent, while also giving credibility to "veterans" such as Benoit & Kane. So, the purpose of the tournament was served. What more can you ask for?

RAW was better last night than its been for awhile now. That's all that truly matters in the end anyway.

[Kane Knight]

In the end, does it matter that tournaments are "overdone" or whatever.
Is there even a question in your mind here?

Yes, it does.

IT matters a lot, because if they are overdone, people will be less interested. No matter how good they are, continued reliance on one gimmick/concept in wrestling devalues it to the viewing public.

[olympic hitman]

Is there even a question in your mind here?

Yes, it does.

IT matters a lot, because if they are overdone, people will be less interested. No matter how good they are, continued reliance on one gimmick/concept in wrestling devalues it to the viewing public.



What I was simply saying was this: Does it truly matter that the tournaments are overdone? No. If people didn't complain about tournaments on RAW, they just find something else to complain about. It seems to be a pattern among "smart" wrestling fans. We witnessed one of the best RAWs of the year and people still find something to complain about.

Does it matter that tournaments as a whole have been done? Yes. It shows little effort and people will lose interest. However, it's the first tournament that's been done on RAW in awhile. That was the logic in my last post. I do somewhat agree though. The WWE cannot keep relying on tournaments. The "Gold Rush" tournament was different though. The participants weren't announced until they came out. So, it's not like it was ALL the same as past tournaments.....

[Kane Knight]

What I was simply saying was this: Does it truly matter that the tournaments are overdone? No. If people didn't complain about tournaments on RAW, they just find something else to complain about. It seems to be a pattern among "smart" wrestling fans. We witnessed one of the best RAWs of the year and people still find something to complain about.

Does it matter that tournaments as a whole have been done? Yes. It shows little effort and people will lose interest. However, it's the first tournament that's been done on RAW in awhile. That was the logic in my last post. I do somewhat agree though. The WWE cannot keep relying on tournaments. The "Gold Rush" tournament was different though. The participants weren't announced until they came out. So, it's not like it was ALL the same as past tournaments.....
Ah yes. Whine about smarts and net fans on the internet.

Good method for trolling, bad method for making an argument,

Also, while I did comment I LIKED the "Not announced until the last minute" shtick, that is a pretty minor thing.

What this DOES have going for it is that Shelton/Michaels was the hot match of the night and one of the hottest matches in a long time. I unfortunately missed Kane/Christian, so I can't say much about that, but the other matches were less impressive. Edge Jericho had its moments, Benoit/HHH only got a plus because HHH went down. Otherwise it was a pretty :meh: match (A shame, since it was a Benoit match).

[Kane Knight]

Also, your original post says the Gold rush took the focus off Triple H. Patently false.

[XL]

Gotta give props to KK here! He completely got the point I was trying to make!

You see, I love tournaments!

I don't love them so much that everytime I watch/read a WWE show I expect them to have a touranment!

Now I havent seen Raw this week, so I can't comment of the booking/match quality!

But then again I didn't do that in the original post!

To use the line of thought that Raw hasn't had a tourney in awhile is totally defunct! At the end of the day Raw and SD! are the SAME company! However much, or little, they are presented as seperate, essentially they are not! At least in my opinion! Hell, they recap each other!!!

So, I (the original thread starter) am sick of tournaments to decide the No1 contender to the top title (whether it be WWE or World)!

And who made the comment about 'putting over young talent'???

Where?? Where did they do this??

Yes benjamin had a good outing against HBK! But at the end of the day it was HBK who went over and progressed!

Erm, who else, oh Kane! Young?? Talent?? Kane went over Xtian a man people are dying to get behind! What a way to push young talent!

Who else is there?? Benoit, talent yes, young, err, NO!

and Edge! Ok I'll give you Edge! (even though he went over the far superior Jericho)


Ok, yes it's true, you CAN'T please everyone! But you gotta remember I wasn't one of the ones crying out for tournaments!

So I am totally vindicated in my annoyance at their over use!

And another thing....The comment about Smarks always bitching! You will notice that I have a post count of around 200, yet I have been a member of these forums since 2003 (under this name) and before that ( under another)
The reason I have a low post count is because I do not (generally) join in with the bitching and moaning! I come here to keep up to date with whats going on and to read the opinions of others (no matter how stupid they can be)!

With that said I'd like to once again thank Kane knight for understanding where I was coming from!

[redoneja]

I for one love tournies, especially ones that are one-nighters, with big names(like the Deady Games Tournament(Survivor Series 1998) and the Wrestlemania IV Tournament) but this is getting a little stale.

I think WWE should institute a ranking system to determine the contenders for the WHC and WWE Title.

[Kane Knight]

Yes benjamin had a good outing against HBK! But at the end of the day it was HBK who went over and progressed!
I disagree.

Well, I know that Michaels progressed, but he made Benjamin look DAMN GOOD. He put Shelton over, and his victory was clearly supposed to be "skin of the teeth." He may have won, but putting someone over isn't JUST about jobbing.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Yeah, Shawn made damn sure Shelton looked like a million bucks in that match. It was absolutely incredible and had everything you needed from it. Plus I like the slow push for Shelton, he needs to be built slowly.

[Londoner]

But to address the issue you bring up in terms of booking...

Okay, Chavlife...

Notice the original poster said

And then went on to say something to the effect of "except they're overdoing it."

So maybe THAT'S the problem. Just a stab in the dark. I know not all of us have a fifth grade edumacation and the deductive skills to solve a Hardy Boys mystery, but let's imagine for a moment that he actually spelled out the problem, and imagine that it's...

...

...

...

Wait for it...

...

...

...

That the tournies are overdone

:eek: Shocking, I noes.

Alright man, calm yourself.

I'll take note in future of how easy it is to get this kind of reaction from you.

:y:

[Kane Knight]

Alright man, calm yourself.

I'll take note in future of how easy it is to get this kind of reaction from you.

:y:
Yup. Make a note that you only have to be an illiterate retard to get a negative reaction from me.

:y:

And of course, typing in a big font is because I need to calm down, and not because I'm trying to drive home something evident to the literate within one post, while you argued for 5 or 6 and still couldn't get it.

I'm sorry, I just thought large letters might be easier for you to read or something.

[Disturbed316]

I have only ever liked two tournaments that have taken place, the one at Mania 4 and the King of the Ring's.

[Londoner]

Yup. Make a note that you only have to be an illiterate retard to get a negative reaction from me.

:y:

And of course, typing in a big font is because I need to calm down, and not because I'm trying to drive home something evident to the literate within one post, while you argued for 5 or 6 and still couldn't get it.

I'm sorry, I just thought large letters might be easier for you to read or something.

lol, you still haven't understood my point either,just to point out the irony. I understand the point that too much of one thing gets boring,but not all these tournaments have been booked exactly the same have they?Once it starts being the same thing over and over again, that's when it gets repetitive.

On Smackdown,they had an original tourny,then the one that ended with a fatal 4 way elimination match,and now on Raw it's got another new feel to it, I don't see the reptitiveness until it starts being exactly the same thing,and when they're not showing any creativity.

That's my actual point incase you didn't understand before.

:y:

[olympic hitman]

Ah yes. Whine about smarts and net fans on the internet.

Good method for trolling, bad method for making an argument,



Trolling? Hardly. I never changed what I said originally, so, how am I "trolling"? Once again, a failed attempt to find something to make me look weak on, but, not because you didn't give it your best effort :y: Side note: Before you try to find something to quote somebody on, make sure you actually know what you are talkin' about. And the comment about "smart" fans is fact. Take last Monday for example. It was basically the best RAW in months[although it could've been better], yet, people complained about it. This seems to be the trend with "smart" internet wrestling fans. Saying anything other than that is some weird form of denial.....

]Also, while I did comment I LIKED the "Not announced until the last minute" shtick, that is a pretty minor thing.

Once again, I disagree. If the tournaments were indeed, the same, it would be old[and a minor thing]. However, not announcing the opponents was a good move. It's the freshest thing that could've been done to the tournament format[which makes it major, as it's a new concept]. How would you suggest getting a new #1 contender? They couldn't just name one. The tournament format was the best option and the most plausible to explain to the fans[storyline-wise]. It also established guys like Benjamin & Christian as threats and set up possible new feuds[Benjamin/HBK, Christian/Kane,etc]while keeping the "veterans"[Kane, HBK, Benoit] looking credible and taking the focus off Triple H[by the way, I said that because it SETS UP next week to take the focus off Triple H, even though he was still a major part of last week's show :n: ]. All that was done by using one simple tournament. Again, name one way of creating and # 1 contender and doing all that at the same time. You can't. Basically, you shot down the idea of doing tournaments, but, liked the matches that it created. You can't have it both ways. Either you liked the tournament and its results or you don't. You can't flop and have it both ways.

What this DOES have going for it is that Shelton/Michaels was the hot match of the night and one of the hottest matches in a long time. I unfortunately missed Kane/Christian, so I can't say much about that, but the other matches were less impressive. Edge Jericho had its moments, Benoit/HHH only got a plus because HHH went down. Otherwise it was a pretty :meh: match (A shame, since it was a Benoit match).

Wow, weren't you the one who said stating the obvious made it qualify as the "No Shit Sherlock" category? :lol:
We have everyone replying with positive things in the official HBK/Benjamin topic and you say it was a "hot match". Nice work Sherlock :roll:

Bottom line is you don't grasp the importance of tournaments. While they made be old & overused, they DO serve a purpose. And on RAW, the "Gold Rush" tournament served it's purpose, did it not?

[Kane Knight]

Yes. I don't grasp the importance of tournaments.

Also, who gives a fuck if I agreed with the other people? OMG! HE DIDN"T ARGUE!

:roll:

Fucking retard.

By the way, if I wanted to find something to make you look weak on, I'd quote you. :yes:

The Gold Rush tournament served its purpose, if its purpose was to provide Tripple H with even more attention, and give one good match.

*yawn*

[Fox]

I have only ever liked two tournaments that have taken place, the one at Mania 4 and the King of the Ring's.


KOTR never really did it for me. Not the way the Royal Rumble, or WWIII or War Games did. I mean, nothing cool ever really happened in a KOTR tournament, besides Steve Austin's famous "Austin 316" line after beating Jake Roberts. There was nothing really "special" about it.


Anyways, with Triple H out of the tournament, it's clear that he title shot will take place on RAW, and not at the PPV, where Triple H is going to face Batista inside the Cell. I'm guessing one of two things will happen:

-HBK wins the tourney and has a great face-vs-face match with Batista (Shawn is famous for having great matches with hosses), and loses clean to put Batista over even more before he inevitably jobs the title back to HHH.

OR

-Edge wins the tournament and loses to Batista on RAW, making his eventual World Title victory later on down the line that much more important (seemingly, anyways).

Of course, they could always do an angle where Benoit's head injury is too much for him to continue on in the tournament, but come on, that would be utterly lame, and WWE would never stoop to that level of lameness.

Right? :roll: