Define what you consider a "Great Wrestler"

[Vastardikai]

I'm sure everyone has an idea as to who a good wrestler is and is not, and that this has been done a few hundred times. I'd like to see what your definition is. Just a more civil post, I presume. Also, who do you consider great wrestlers?

I'll start, I guess.

Great Wrestlers: Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, the Rock, Steve Austin, Chis Benoit, Tully Blanchard, Ric Flair.

Now, I'm sure someone is going to start busting out the negative reps as soon as they read 'Hulk H', but here we go...

Great Wrestler:

1. Capable of busting some excellent technical manuevers and get the crowds on their feet.

2. Capable of bringing in large crowds just be the mention of their name, and capable of making people care about their opponent.

The second definition is why I include the like of Hulk, Andre, and the Rock to a list that already includes Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, and Ric Flair. One can be the first definition and not necessarily the second (Dean Malenko, Tully Blanchard, and Chris Benoit to an extent.). One can be the second definition and not necessarily the first (Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, the Undertaker). Only a VERY special handful can manage BOTH (Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, and in due time Christian.)

Anyway, go ahead and give this a go, or flame me if this has been done 9,423,089,123,565,234 times. In that case, I'm sorry. :cool:

[The One]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa! Hold on a second there bud. You are telling me that Tully Blanchard couldn't fraw a crowd with the mention of his name? You are saying Tully couldn't make people care about his opponite? Tully Blanchard MADE half of the legends we see today. I love Ric Flair, but if Ric hadn't have gotten the Nature Boy gimmick first, hadn't started wrestling before Tully, there is no question in my mind that everyone would have in their hands "The Ultimate Tully Blanchard Collection". Tully was a man who could do it ALL, and usually do it better then anyone. He was so fucking over, the only reason he never got the attention he deserved was because he was a Horseman, under Flair's shadow, and then he got busted for drug abuse and dropped off the face of pro wrestling. So PLEASE don't go putting Tully in the can't draw catarogy, cause DAMN could that man bring in a crowd.

Anyway on to the topic at hand, what is a great wrestler.

A great wrestler can be many things. I find that my personal choices for great wrestlers are men who excel in all of the fallowing catagories and completly dominate at least one of them, those catagories are; "In Ring Work", "Natural Charisma", "Mic Skills", "Ring Psychology", and of coruse the ever mysterious "X-Factor".

Some examples of great wrestlers are Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Tully Blanchard, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Harley Race, and fuck it the list could go on for quite a while.

I understand that ever wrestler brings something different to the table, and as such no one man's efforts can go without notice. Hulk Hogan is (or maybe was) a great wrestler. Although I would rather never see one of his matches ever again, there are plenty who disagree with me, and for that he deserves a spot in pro wrestling to bring in the fans who I am so obviously not.

[Lamuella]

talented in the ring

talented on the mic

able, with both of these, to make you believe he/she is doing what they say they are doing, and to care. The ability to make you love or hate them, and to switch from one to the other with skill.

[ddpBANG]

I'd say anybody that can make Chris Masters and Tyson Tomko look good.

[Marcyo]

A good wrestler has to be good in the ring and on the mic. If you had Bret Hart (ring) combined with JBL (Mic skill) and Stone Cold Steve Austin (ability to provoke a huge pop by just showing up), there you have your perfect wrestler.

The best example right now would be Kurt Angle. Now that's what I call perfect.

[NoRoolz]

Angle has the wrestling ability, he has the mic skill. But I'm not so sure that he has the drawing power/X-Factor. Whereas I'm sure many smarks go to WWE events to see Angle, I doubt that Angle alone could draw a crowd full of marks - this could be because Angle is almost always a heel. Which reminds me, a perfect wrestler should be able to play Heel and Face amazingly, and I don't think Angle is that great at being face - at least he's better as heel, so I wouldn't call Angle perfect, very near perfect however :yes:.

Great Wrestlers:
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Kurt Angle
The Rock
Ric Flair
Chris Jericho
Steve Austin
Hulk Hogan

All of those have great wrestling skill, plus very good mic skill/drawing power, all except Austin and Hogan, their wrestling is pretty average (Hogan slightly under average) but their drawing ability alone makes them great. Another person who could be on there for the same reasons as Hogan/Austin is The Undertaker.

[Vastardikai]

Gracias, The One. I forgot about the Tully/Magnum TA feud for some reason. Curse my Young age and bad memory. But yes, any of the Horsemen had that ability.

Needless to say, Scratch Blanchard from the above, replace him with, I guess... hell, too little sleep finally getting to me. I'll say Shelton Benjamin at the moment, only because his mic work hasn't caught up with his ring work.

And Marcyo, Curt Hennig was what I called Perfect :p

[M. Banana]

A "Great Wrestler" would be someone who's name isn't Paul Levesque

[James Steele]

A "Great Wrestler" would be someone who's name isn't Paul Levesque A) THATS MY GIMMICK ASSHOLE!!! http://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gifhttp://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/rant.gif


B) A great wrestler is a combination of 6 things.

1. Overall Wrestling Ability
2. Charisma (In-Ring)
3. Charima (Out-of-ring)
4. Mic Skills
5. Ability As Heel or Face
6. Ring Psychology (Selling, etc.)

Now before people bitch about mic skills and charisma being the same thing. SHUT UP. Charisma is often mistaken for mic skills. Chris Benoit is charismatic as hell. He has an in-ring & out-of-ring intensity and presence that is really rare. That's charisma. Sure, its not Rock or Hogan charisma but how many people have that kind of charisma. However, Benoit can cut an awesome promo. Sure, it won't get Benoit chants from the 80 year old lady in Nantucket but it will get you into Benoit. It will make you feel Benoit.

[The Gooch]

I really don't know how I could define a great wrestler. If I would come up with my own definition chances are Hulk Hogan would not be deemed a great wrestler which would be totally asinine on my part.

Somebody who makes you stop and take notice both inside and outside of the ring seems fitting to me at the moment.

[Karlsberg]

It goes without saying that a great wrestler needs to be able to combine in ring work with mic skills. They also need to be able to play both face and heel to a decent degree whist also being selfless in the ring when there time was coming to an end.

For those reasons i think the likes of The Rock and Mick Foley are great wrestlers.

[PerfectOne]

Definition: Great Wrestler - Viscera.
Example: Viscera is a Great Wrestler.

[Londoner]

I can not see how a 'great wrestler' needs good mic skills to become a great wrestler, i think people are missing the point on that part. A great wrestler to me needs good technical wrestling ability, and good ring psychology and natural in-ring charisma. Stuff like mic skills/ability as a heel or face are more to do with entertainment than actual wrestling.

We just need to look at Shelton as a good example, he is a great wrestler but doens't have good mic skills yet.But does that actually matter to be under this definition? You seriously telling me Shelton isn't a great wrestler?

[Londoner]

It goes without saying that a great wrestler needs to be able to combine in ring work with mic skills. They also need to be able to play both face and heel to a decent degree whist also being selfless in the ring when there time was coming to an end.

For those reasons i think the likes of The Rock and Mick Foley are great wrestlers.


Your confusing great entertainer with great wrestler, which exactly my point in my previous post. How many wrestling moves do you see the rock and mick foley do?

[M. Banana]

THATS MY GIMMICK ASSHOLE!!!

Shut the fuck up and go blow Ferret you fucking ignorant ass.

How is it YOUR gimmick when 99.4498949819651% of TPWW hate Triple H?

[James Steele]

Need I show you the "The Official Fuck Triple H Thread", bitch?

[M. Banana]

That doesn't make it your gimmick, "bitch".

I made a thread talking about porn, BUT MY GIMMICK ISN'T THE FUCKING PORN MAN

[The Show Off]

B) A great wrestler is a combination of 6 things.

1. Overall Wrestling Ability
2. Charisma (In-Ring)
3. Charima (Out-of-ring)
4. Mic Skills
5. Ability As Heel or Face
6. Ring Psychology (Selling, etc.)


I like all of those, but I have two changes to make. First I would combine 2 and 3 to make it overall chrisma. Then I would seperate 5 to make one catagory for Heel and one for face. That all being said here are my top 5 of all time in each catagory...

Overall Wrestling Ability
Kurt Angle
Chris Benoit
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Ric Flair

Chrisma
The Rock
Hulk Hogan
Sting
Goldberg
Ric Flair

Mic Skills
The Rock
Mic Foley
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair
Dusty Rhodes

Ability as a Face
Steve Austin
Hulk Hogan
The Rock
Sting
Mic Foley

Ability as a Heel
Hulk Hogan
Ric Flair
Chris Jericho
Triple H
Raven

Ring Psycology
Raven
Mic Foley
Shawn Michaels
Jake Roberts
Ric Flair


All that being said, this is how it breaks down, figuring out who is the greatest wrestlers of all time...

6 of 6
(none)

5 of 6
Ric Flair

4 of 6
(none)

3 of 6
The Rock
Hulk Hogan
Mic Foley

So by my standards Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler of all time, which I think is pretty soild of a stance.

[ddpBANG]

Show Off... how is it that you can leave RVD out of every one of those categories? Well, I understand mic skills. But the rest of them?

And... WHO BETTA THAN KANYON?

[Hired Hitman]

Charisma, great at one Wrestling Ability(Brawler/mat/high flying/hardcore etc) but can also wrestler other styles atleast half as good, get a crowd to love/hate them and linking moves together and help bring the best out of their opponent.

[redoneja]

Any wrestler that can make any random jobber look like Ric Flair.

[Vastardikai]

I can not see how a 'great wrestler' needs good mic skills to become a great wrestler, i think people are missing the point on that part. A great wrestler to me needs good technical wrestling ability, and good ring psychology and natural in-ring charisma. Stuff like mic skills/ability as a heel or face are more to do with entertainment than actual wrestling.

We just need to look at Shelton as a good example, he is a great wrestler but doens't have good mic skills yet.But does that actually matter to be under this definition? You seriously telling me Shelton isn't a great wrestler?

I consider Shelton to be a very good Wrestler. . I want to give him about another year or two before I can consider him great. The same is true for the likes of Cena and Batista, both of who get a mixed rep here. Cena, like his talents or hate them, draws in a huge amount of people. Batista is closing in superstardom if he can get away from feuding with a guy who has a big nose and is trying to look like Lemmy.

The fact is, though, Entertainment ties into Wrestling to the point that a bad gimmick can kill a good Wrestler (Terry Taylor, anyone?). You can blame that on Vince McMahon or even the original Gorgeous George, but that's the way it is: Wrestling = Entertainment, so a Great Entertainer = a Great Wrestler. How one becomes a Great Entertainer or a Great Wrestler varies as widely as the many gimmicks of Kevin Nash throughout his career. You have a guy like Mick Foley, who gets by on his Mic Skills and risks, and you have "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, who got over with his Attitude, Charisma, and Mic Skills, and you have a guy like Andre the Giant, who got over because he was freaking huge and portrayed a likable personality, and then there's Ric Flair, who became the only true Icon of Professional Wrestling with his ringwork and charisma. It's mainly about knowing your strengths and playing to them, which is an advantage in both the ring, and in life in general.

Didn't mean to get so deep there... :shifty:

But this thread is actually getting kind of interesting. I am enjoying the feedback.

[vampiro03]

a great wrestler doesn't have to play a face and a heel. take sting for example. he had awesome everything mic skills(which sting has proven is over rated) wrestling skills and the most important Work Ethic . every monday you know you would see sting giving his all, not just showing up for a check. chris benoit has the work ethic closest to stings and brett harts for that matter. Brett had an awesome work ethic until the screw job that is. after that brett was just pouting on tv. I hated seeing brett hate wrestling.

[NoRoolz]

The Show Off - Do you think Hogan makes a better heel than Rock? Personally I'd have Rock on there to make him have 4 out of 6 - Austin can also play a great heel, but the crowd loved him too much for him to be heel. But I think vampiro03 is right in saying you don't need to be able to play Face and Heel to be great.

[Londoner]

I consider Shelton to be a very good Wrestler. . I want to give him about another year or two before I can consider him great. The same is true for the likes of Cena and Batista, both of who get a mixed rep here. Cena, like his talents or hate them, draws in a huge amount of people. Batista is closing in superstardom if he can get away from feuding with a guy who has a big nose and is trying to look like Lemmy.

You have named 3 very different styles of wrestlers there. Only one i consider a 'great wrestler' is Shelton because of his amatuer wrestling background., that's why i know i don't need to wait another year or so before i can call him a great wrestler, a great superstar in the wwe on the other hand i can wait for another year before i say so. They're two entriely different things if you want to be specific.

As for Cena an Batista, cena hasn't got much wrestling ability i don't think(you saw that in his match with kurt Angle), but he has talents in other areas which makes him(or will make him) a great superstar, and Batista has a mix of the two, plus, he's bigger than the others and more powerful. With these two i don't feel they'll become great wrestlers but instead great superstars in the WWE.


The fact is, though, Entertainment ties into Wrestling to the point that a bad gimmick can kill a good Wrestler (Terry Taylor, anyone?). You can blame that on Vince McMahon or even the original Gorgeous George, but that's the way it is: Wrestling = Entertainment, so a Great Entertainer = a Great Wrestler. How one becomes a Great Entertainer or a Great Wrestler varies as widely as the many gimmicks of Kevin Nash throughout his career. You have a guy like Mick Foley, who gets by on his Mic Skills and risks, and you have "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, who got over with his Attitude, Charisma, and Mic Skills, and you have a guy like Andre the Giant, who got over because he was freaking huge and portrayed a likable personality, and then there's Ric Flair, who became the only true Icon of Professional Wrestling with his ringwork and charisma. It's mainly about knowing your strengths and playing to them, which is an advantage in both the ring, and in life in general.

Didn't mean to get so deep there... :shifty:

But this thread is actually getting kind of interesting. I am enjoying the feedback.

Exactly, Mick Foley and Stone Cold etc, got over because of other stuff, not being a great wrestler though, which is what the topic of this thread is about. Ric Flair(as much as i hate that guy i have to admit this)was a great wrestler, he is what a great wrestler is meant to be.

I kinda got lost in what you were trying to say in that post, since it seems like to me that you contradicted yourself.Maybe i'm just reading it wrong?

[Tiken]

Great Wrestlers:
The Rock
Steve Austin
Hulk Hogan

All of those have great wrestling skill

Teh?

[Schoenauer]

I'm on points with a lot of people here, that a great wrestler needs a lot of stuff before he's considered the greatest wrestler of all time.

[NoRoolz]

Teh?

Read the whole post.

[Tiken]

Read the whole post.

All 3 of them couldent wrestle their way out of a wet paper bag, and they've proven that more than once.