Why this draft isn't going very good right now.

[darkpower]

I post this because of the many anti-SmackDown posts I've been seeing lately, and with posts saying that they want all the SD big names to go to RAW so they don't have to watch SD ever again, I figure it's time that we examine how awful such a statement and how horrible such an action of all the top names going to RAW may be.

It's become obvious now that Vince may want to get some big names from SD to RAW, and that has all bad written all over it. First Cena, the most over SD star at the time, and now Angle, who I considered to be a SD staple (but we could've seen that one happening regardless). But if Vince moves ALL the big names from SD to RAW, then alot of bad things could happen:

For one, we will see all the big main event calibur names on RAW, which means it will be WAY too top heavy. The World Title will lose crediability (as if it hasn't been enough with HHH always going after it) because of all these stars going after it, and not enough time for all of them. So some great stars may end up being stuck in mid card hell on RAW when they WERE in top running for the WWE Championship on SD. Too many top names than they could know what to do with.
The WWE Championship on RAW? Where do I start explaining the bad things from this one? If the draft continues the way it is now, what is going to happen with the stars from SD when they can't go after a "big" prize. The WWE Title is, or was, THE top for the SD stars. Sure, Triple H or some big name that gets the World Title could go to SD, but let's be honest. Do you really think that they would do that at all seeing as if Triple H isn't exactly wanted in the SD locker rooms from what the news was saying last year when he was drafted and then people on SD was glad that he was sent back (which means he will more or less stay on RAW unless Steph is uber pissed at him)? And since he cares only for the World Title (at least that's what his storyline has him doing), it would only make sense to keep that title on RAW. Thus, what would happen with the WWE Title if it stays on RAW. The only way any star for SD could get any main event title at that point would be to go through to RAW and face the top guys there, which makes RAW even MORE top-heavy, and plus, since the WWE Title wouldn't be the VERY top belt in that brand, they would have to go after the World Title, and we all know what that would mean.
SmackDown is still half of the WWE right now. We can't really be looking TOO much into the future. As it stands right now, they still are able to have SmackDown on UPN until 2006, at least. Now, they do need to continue doing the brand extension for the top-heavy thing I already mentioned for RAW, and I don't see it ending for a good while. If the unify the two brands, then there will be only one belt with about 10-20 or so possible top contenders going for it, and only one guy being able to carry it (more or less the same guy), which means ALOT of burying. Plus, what will this show advertisers? If Vince just says "fuck SmackDown," will the advertisers think that if he's able to do that to part of his company, what could he do to the REST of it? SmackDown more or less is half of RAW's paycheck.
They're contract with UPN isn't ending until 2006, at least. This is the summer of 2005. ALOT of time still, and there is no guarantee that they will be going elsewhere, either, or no guarantee that they won't extend their contract with UPN. And I see the Friday night move just as that. Just a move. Not any "kiss of death" or anything. Yeah, Enterprise was moved there then got cancelled, but that show was getting dismal ratings even before getting moved there. And, if I'm a betting man, I would say that UPN might surprise us. Not saying it's in the works or anything, but anything is possible anymore. And there is just too much time between now and whenever in 06 the contract is over to just say fuck SD. No network will pick up any brand that their Chairman doesn't care about, which means that the top-heavy state of RAW will get much worse, and we'll be back to where we were immediatly after the invasion angle ended, when we were looking forward to the brand extension (or the "roster-split", as we were calling it at the time), and then we were trying to tell naysayers that without the extension, the whole WWE would be screwed. Vince need to start worrying about what is going to happen NOW instead of a year from now. A year is a hell of a lot of time to do something good with a brand that needs to be the HHH-show (aka RAW) alternative, and stop treating RAW like the flagship show, since that has been proven to be a suicidal thought in and out.
Personally, I don't know what is so wrong with SD that no one wants a reason to watch it that a simple change might fix. The writer, John Laquana, should be fired and replaced by Paul Heyman (and seeing how ECW ONS was like, if the WWE was smart, which is a longshot but oh well, they might do just that). But other than that, I don't see anything else that could credit any reasons. And even when you count the Laguana factor, SD is not the awful brand that people make it out to be. But instead of wanting the WWE to fix it, people just want for vince to screw it over like he IS doing. Do we really WANT the WWE to be so top heavy that no one besides HHH is the top heel?
There they are, my reasons. Now you can discuss this, neg rep me all you like, whatever. But it doesn't change that, right now, assuming this draft keeps following the trends they are setting with it right now, it will only turn into a horrible state for the ENTIRE WWE, SmackDown AND RAW.

[Corkscrewed]

thread #2 about this in addition to the comments about this in other RAW-related threads not specifically addressing SD!'s burial.

The one good thing that can come out of this (and I'm dreaming) is that SD! becomes an intentionally low rate production show, BUT with Heyman in charge, it takes on more of a small town ECW type atmsophere, where you don't have a ton of major stars above the rest, but everyone is relatively solid and equal and you have entertaining shows and storylines that make up for the lack of starpower.

In other words, SD! becomes a big lab where they can run miscellaneous and possibly more controversial storylines without fear of tuning out a ton of audience, since there isn't a huge one to begin with.

[darkpower]

thread #2 about this in addition to the comments about this in other RAW-related threads not specifically addressing SD!'s burial.
Yeah, they posted that one while I was writing this one, so I didn't have a chance to see it until I was done writing this.

[PureHatred]

So what’s your point?

You make some valid arguments, but its not the fans or the posters on these boards fault we don’t give two shits about SD.

Pretty much since the day of the brand split, Smackdown has been given the B-show treatment. Not by the fans, but by the WWE itself.

You could make an argument that the better matches were happening on SD. And that, especially initially, SD had the more talented roster. And there was the hope that with the roster split, the cruisers would have more room to work on SD.

So what happens? Over time the WWE makes move after move that ends up benefiting Raw. Benoit. Edge. The Triple H trade. And of course, the whole time the cruisers get grounded. And in every instance (other than Rey) whenever a big name was going to debut or make a special return (like Rock or Austin) they appeared on Raw. Not to mention the constant digs that the writers make by having workers refer to SD as the B Show or the minor leagues or whatever.

It adds up after a while. People don’t care about SD for the most part not because of some inate dislike for the brand, but because the WWE has gone out of its way to tear the show down.

So send your manifesto to Stamford. If the WWE doesn’t care about the show, then why as a fan should I?

[PureHatred]

Basically, we don't care because the writrs made sure we don't care, so don't run down the fans for tuning out froma bad product.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I respect your opinions and thoughts on the matter, but I do think these moves by the WWE have been good.

The WWE Championship is the top belt in the WWE. It's good to see it contended on RAW again. The World Heavyweight Championship, however, only has three years of history. Triple H cares about being World Champion in general. He's won the WHC 5-times and the WWE Championship 5-times. Personally I think it's time he got out of the World Heavyweight Division, and moved back into the WWE Divison.

SmackDown! can very easily create their own World Championship. Unify the IC and US Titles if you need to. That would create about 45 years of history, which is more than what the World Heavyweight Title has.

We haven't even seen the second draftee to SD! yet, maybe it will be staple of RAW that will leave RAW feeling empty? The only names that really fit this are Kane, Triple H & Shawn Michaels, though. Out of them, I'd rather see Kane end up in blue & silver. Send Benjamin over next week, and Kane over after Vengeance and then you can have Tajiri & Val Venis fill in the other slots. They're not completely abandoning SD!, trust me. Giving them Benoit doesn't support that idea at all. Benoit is an internet favourite, so perhaps the WWE are just testing the waters to feel how big the internet community is?

Personally I'm glad Benoit and Booker T look to be regaining some kind of stability on SD!. Both look to be the top face, and with the inclusion of a top heel (Orton? Kane? Edge? Christian? Triple H?) things may work out for SmackDown! yet.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Didn't read any of that, but I think the draft is going pretty well in terms of people not really knowing what to expect, which is basically the whole point of the WWE.

[The CyNick]

It seems like they are trying to load up for Vengeance, they still have two picks after Vengeance that they could use to build up SD.

I kinda think they are loading up RAW to make room for some type of ECW angle on SD. I dont think they'll go as far as making Smackdown an ECW show, but I think they will be a faction on that show.

We'll see, they need to do something big on SD with themove to Friday upcoming, so maybe they talke away a bunch of talent, but in exchange they gett he ECW angle, which seems to be very hot right now.

[Loose Cannon]

He's talking about me in the first two sentences :lol:

hey darkpower, do you know how much repping power I have and how little yours affects me? So thanks for the neg rep for stating my opinion of Smackdown and calling it ignorant jackoff. You seemed a little pissed at me with your comments.

Neg rep will be returned graciously freind :y:

[Loose Cannon]

by the way, use spaces cause they break up that cluster fuck you have.

[Marcyo]

Didn't read any of that, but I think the draft is going pretty well in terms of people not really knowing what to expect, which is basically the whole point of the WWE.

[Kane Knight]

Basically, we don't care because the writrs made sure we don't care, so don't run down the fans for tuning out froma bad product.
:y:

[CYCLOPTERSAURUS]

Jobbing Cena out in 10 seconds on heat to a returning Mideon for the title would be surprising and unexpected, but stupid. The whole reason for the draft, as far as I can tell, is to even up the brands if they're getting lopsided, or if the matches are getting stale, to throw new names into the mix. But now they're just making it even MORE lopsided. Why? It's surprising but stupid. HBK (and probably Orton too) had better fuck</>ing go to Smackdown. And as far as new matches, all they would have to really do is move one main eventer to add a hell of a lot of new match possibilities. Maybe one major main eventer a year, and some upper midcarders and midcarders to each brand.

[Loose Cannon]

you guys aren't getting that Smackdown is moving to Fridays aka a terrbile terrible terrible night for wrestling. Why would you have your "best" guys on a show that few people are going to watch in that timeslot?

[The CyNick]

you guys aren't getting that Smackdown is moving to Fridays aka a terrbile terrible terrible night for wrestling. Why would you have your "best" guys on a show that few people are going to watch in that timeslot?

I would think they would do everything in their power to help the show, in order to still make money off of it.

The way things are going, it seems like they are not taking from RAW to make SD better, if anything they are going the other way.

The only logical explanation I can come up with is that they are going to try to do something with the ECW brand to keep viewers for SD, but as Ive said before, I think thats a really risky move.

[Loose Cannon]

I think that by having a show on Friday Night, there is nothing you can do, nobody you can move, to save it. They could put all the stars from Raw to Smackdown and I say Smackdown still does terrible numbers on Friday. Nothing is that interesting in the WWE right now that could "help" a show a great deal. So if they ain't gonna watch anyway, might as well move the top guys to where people will watch.

And this view is all based on all these shows moved to Fridays Nights that have tanked in the past. Wrestling and non-wrestling

[MVP]

If anything, having Cena on SD would be the best way to keep it alive on Friday nights.

OOPS there goes that plan.

[Loose Cannon]

Maybe to a small niche market, aka 6-11 year old kids, but what about the rest of the audience? They are usually out and about on Friday Nights. And usually, "those kids" are going to watch the shows they always watch on Fridays or watch shows with thier parents. Friday Night TV is like family night.

[PureHatred]

LC is right. No matter what the genre, any TV show being moved to Friday night is considered a death sentence.

UPN is separating itself from wrestling and the wrestling audience. They moved SD. They're focusing on female programming. They're cutting the advertising. And they are going to let SD's contract expire w/o even trying to retain the show.

People defending this draft so far are hopelessly optimistic. Cena is the most popular performer in the entire company. Angle is arguably the most gifted performer on the planet. Neither one were going to do a damn thing to help SD once it went to Friday. So moving them to Raw makes sense.

Of course, if the WWE had made the effort to make SD a better show for the last few years instead of tearing it down then maybe the ratings would be so strong UPN would never even consider moving the show. But its too late. And USA is not a guarantee to pick-up SD. So the company is doing the smart thing and setting itself up for the real possibility that the SD wil be at a close once their contract ends.

[darkpower]

He's talking about me in the first two sentences :lol:

hey darkpower, do you know how much repping power I have and how little yours affects me? So thanks for the neg rep for stating my opinion of Smackdown and calling it ignorant jackoff. You seemed a little pissed at me with your comments.

Neg rep will be returned graciously freind :y:
Well, actually, it seems that you haven't liked me since I started posting full time on here, so it really doesn't hurt me. The fact that you can't handle when someone disagrees with you so much and telling me to "shut the fuck up" in your little comment (which is real mature, by the way) just proves what I said about you in my comment completly right. Oh, and I don't really care how little my rep does to you. It got my point across to you, did it? I have a good reason when I neg rep someone or go off on someone. My name is NOT The Lone Drinker or Goldbird.

And by the way, you're not the only one who has said things like that on these boards lately, so don't think I'm singling you out.

[PureHatred]

Still not addressing the fact that it was stupid of you in the first place to criticize any fans for not wanting to watch a show that the WWE has done everything possible to make irrelevant.

[darkpower]

Still not addressing the fact that it was stupid of you in the first place to criticize any fans for not wanting to watch a show that the WWE has done everything possible to make irrelevant.
Well, in retrospect, I'm not saying they don't have the right to have such an opinion. It just seems counterproductive to me to have people to instead want SD to improve so they would WANT to watch it, to instead want it to be ruined even further. They have an opinion and so be it..but I can't respond to it with what I think and why I think they are wrong?

LC is a different case, though. While everyone else I see tends to just not seeing my point of view just yet (which may or may not change their minds), he is just trying as hard as he can to blast anyone who doesn't agree with him. I neg repped him for that reason (and I wish I was able to make it really sting), and I guess he can't handle someone disagreeing with him.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they shouldn't have that opinion. I'm just stating why I disagree with them, which I have a right to do, as well.

[Shadow]

you guys aren't getting that Smackdown is moving to Fridays aka a terrbile terrible terrible night for wrestling. Why would you have your "best" guys on a show that few people are going to watch in that timeslot?

To get people to watch that show.

[Loose Cannon]

Well, in retrospect, I'm not saying they don't have the right to have such an opinion. It just seems counterproductive to me to have people to instead want SD to improve so they would WANT to watch it, to instead want it to be ruined even further. They have an opinion and so be it..but I can't respond to it with what I think and why I think they are wrong?

LC is a different case, though. While everyone else I see tends to just not seeing my point of view just yet (which may or may not change their minds), he is just trying as hard as he can to blast anyone who doesn't agree with him. I neg repped him for that reason (and I wish I was able to make it really sting), and I guess he can't handle someone disagreeing with him.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they shouldn't have that opinion. I'm just stating why I disagree with them, which I have a right to do, as well.

what are you talking about? Who have I blasted, other then you for your stupid comment about my statement being ignorant? This is the argument every single time against me. "I can't handle someone disagreeing with me" It's getting old. I can handle it, but I'll will always defend my claim the best I can.

[PureHatred]

To get people to watch that show.

Damn it..why is this so hard for people to understand? The TV shows that get moved to Friday night always, always, always, ALWAYS go into the shitter.

Is anyone really surprised by what the WWE is doing? They treated SD like the B show for years. So now that UPN is squashing the show people expect the WWE to do a complete 180 and prop up the show to make it better???? That makes no sense.

Unless the WWE gets another TV deal done fairly soon, SD will go from passably entertaining to jobber show by next summer.

[Kane Knight]

That's okay. I needed another Heat on my TV. And 2 hours, at that,.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't get it. Some of you may have read the SmackDown! Spoilers, but I haven't, and I'm going to keep them out of my post, so this will only be based on the three draft picks that have taken place.

How can anyone really call this draft lopsided? John Cena comes over to RAW, Chris Benoit goes over to SD!. Cena may be popular, but the fans will follow him anywhere, and if that means to RAW, then I'm all for it. Cena has already gotten me more interested in him on RAW than he ever did on SD!, and I'm looking forward to seeing him do some fresh stuff there.

Chris Benoit was running dry on RAW. 2004 was the year of the Wolverine, but this year the WWE chose to make it about John Cena and Batista, in hopes one of them will set the WWE free. Now that the stars Benoit had to step down for are on the mothership, Benoit gets to move over to the blue & silver and become the lead face there. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit vs. Booker T, Chris Benoit vs. The Undertaker. I'd get excited for Chris Benoit vs. Orlando Jordan personally.

Then Kurt Angle goes over to RAW and everyone calls it a "deathblow" to SD!. Fair enough, but an icon for an icon. Benoit and Angle are about as talented, so SD! doesn't lose anything in the talent ratio in the long-run. So SD! has lost its top star, and a great wrestler/icon of the show. I'd personally be expecting HBK, Triple H or Kane to be appearing on SD! soon, just to keep it on par.

And besides, SD! is going down the shitter. Now is the time for the Hollywood writers to focus on working with RAW. Now is also the time to have someone like Paul Heyman come in and try to "save" SD! with talented guys like Chris Benoit, Booker T, etc. If it doesn't work, too bad, but if it does, all the guys on Smackers are better off. Worst case scenario, you have Booker T, Eddie Guerrero & Chris Benoit on RAW in about a year.

[The CyNick]

Business wise its still a bad move to rape SD of talent.

Even if SD loses some of its audience, which I dont necessarily think will happen, but lets say they do. Any loss is better than taking all of the talent away from them. Because then you can guarantee they will lose 85% of their audience (look at what happened to Heat) and they wont be able to draw anything on the road for house shows and PPVs.

Basically what you have to hope is that the change will nearly double RAW's overall business to make up for SD's losses. And even with a stacked roster, I dont see that happening.

[Batsu]

No unification matches. They SUCKED.

The only ones that needed to happen were the WCW belts, perhaps...but reunifying all these WWE titles can only mean something bad. Because if you thought the HHH Show was bad now... imagine it in the future.

The WWE title scene sucked without the Intercontinental Title. That's a belt with years of history, and traditionally the No. 2 belt in the company.

The US Title resurfacing was a good thing. SD needs that title, and it needs a No. 1 title on the show. Whether it's the World Title (a title I call the WCW Title to this day, since it's basically a reincarnation of that belt), or the WWE title...one of them has to go to SD.

No new championships, and definitely no unifications. The only time that was cool in WWE was when the WCW and WWE titles became one (and that needed to happen...if only someone that was in WCW actually held it at the time Jericho took the belt...)

[The CyNick]

I still think they should do something with JBL and the ECW title.

Maybe if ECW is going to come back, have a tourny for the ECW title, JBL wins it, and then throws the ECW title in the garbage and raises some new championship to represent SD.

[redoneja]

I think that they're just loading Raw up to stack the Vengeance card. Afterwards everything will even out.

[Pepsi Man]

I can't take you seriously. First you claim that many top calibur wrestlers going after the World Title(s) will HURT their credibility, then you go on to make some sort of theory about how Triple H will "only go to smackdown if Steph is uber pissed at him". Better luck next time.

[darkpower]

I can't take you seriously. First you claim that many top calibur wrestlers going after the World Title(s) will HURT their credibility, then you go on to make some sort of theory about how Triple H will "only go to smackdown if Steph is uber pissed at him". Better luck next time.
He wants to be on RAW, and no sane wrestler on SD who wants for their locker room "sports-team" style to keep going will want him in there for fear that they will lose such a claim. So there will more or less be no chance of Triple H moving to SD unless something drastic happens that affects the planet alignment or something to that extent. There's nothing discreditable about that.

[Pepsi Man]

He wants to be on RAW, and no sane wrestler on SD who wants for their locker room "sports-team" style to keep going will want him in there for fear that they will lose such a claim. So there will more or less be no chance of Triple H moving to SD unless something drastic happens that affects the planet alignment or something to that extent. There's nothing discreditable about that.
Yup, because the SmackDown! wrestlers "don't want" him there, there's no way that'd ever happen. The WWE cares only about what the talent wants. The "sports-team" style was completely undone anyway when not only did John Cena win the WWE Title, but Kurt Angle (and sure, both are gone now, but my point remains) went around calling people guttersluts.

But, since YOU say there's no chance, I guess there's no chance. :D

[darkpower]

Yup, because the SmackDown! wrestlers "don't want" him there, there's no way that'd ever happen. The WWE cares only about what the talent wants. The "sports-team" style was completely undone anyway when not only did John Cena win the WWE Title, but Kurt Angle (and sure, both are gone now, but my point remains) went around calling people guttersluts.

But, since YOU say there's no chance, I guess there's no chance. :D
Let me just say, I really do hope you're wrong, because while I want to see the rosters balanced out more, Triple H is the one person I DON'T want it to be remidied with.

[Altar of Helmsley]

Hopefully after Vengence SD! will get some better talent and it'll be as good as 2002, but i'm worried about it at the moment.

[Kane Knight]

Having seen the pick for tonight, I'd say that it's a little less unbalanced.

[Loose Cannon]

yea really. Like I said the first time, wait till the shit is over before making harsh comments.

Smackdown just took the future top heel, so I don't see a problem at all now.

[darkpower]

Yeah, they did something right. Either that or they read this board and saw me whining (fat chance of the latter happening).

Now let's how RAW does what I think they SHOULD do and help their IC title picture out by getting some SD mid-cards like Haas or, if you want to take him down a bit, Big Show.

[The CyNick]

yea really. Like I said the first time, wait till the shit is over before making harsh comments.

Smackdown just took the future top heel, so I don't see a problem at all now.

They need to sell tickets now. Orton isn't going to do that. He needs months of rebuilding before thats going to happen.

Its a fair point to say we should wait, but I'm just looking at it right now, and right now SD is being raped star power wise. Cena and Angle are much bigger stars than Orotn and Benoit.

The biggest problem I have is that I thought the draft was going to be done to even up the sides between RAW and SD, but 2 picks in and SD has been hurt, so they'll need the next 3 picks just to get back to where they were before the draft. And thats not really good enough.

Dont get me wrong, it could still work out in the end (say RAW gets 3 worhtless guys from SD and SD gets 3 more upper end mid car or main event guys). But I doubt that'll happen, seems like they are doing main eventer for main eventer. And thus far SD has got the crappy end of the stick.

I mean Taker is part time guy, so who is their top face right now? Booker? Show? Rey? Benoit? (thats scary) None of those guys are draws. The only other guy that could draw money that they have is Batista, but as Ive mentioned, he's below Cena in terms of popularity, so its still an overall loss for SD.

Ther wildcard is the ECW angle, if it happens and if it works.

[blake639raw]

I mean Taker is part time guy, so who is their top face right now? Booker? Show? Rey? Benoit? (thats scary) What about RVD? How long until he comes back?

[Fox]

They need to sell tickets now. Orton isn't going to do that. He needs months of rebuilding before thats going to happen.

Its a fair point to say we should wait, but I'm just looking at it right now, and right now SD is being raped star power wise. Cena and Angle are much bigger stars than Orotn and Benoit.

The biggest problem I have is that I thought the draft was going to be done to even up the sides between RAW and SD, but 2 picks in and SD has been hurt, so they'll need the next 3 picks just to get back to where they were before the draft. And thats not really good enough.

Dont get me wrong, it could still work out in the end (say RAW gets 3 worhtless guys from SD and SD gets 3 more upper end mid car or main event guys). But I doubt that'll happen, seems like they are doing main eventer for main eventer. And thus far SD has got the crappy end of the stick.

I mean Taker is part time guy, so who is their top face right now? Booker? Show? Rey? Benoit? (thats scary) None of those guys are draws. The only other guy that could draw money that they have is Batista, but as Ive mentioned, he's below Cena in terms of popularity, so its still an overall loss for SD.

Ther wildcard is the ECW angle, if it happens and if it works.

The uneven balance between RAW's star power and SD's star power is to be expected. Although Benoit and Orton are both great talents and both great compliments to SD, it's a given that they're not as big of stars as Cena and Angle. With SD soon going to a Friday night time slot, there's no reason to waste their best guys on a show that will soon be viewed by a much smaller audience.

I wouldn't be surprised if SD lost Undertaker for Kane next.