Thoughts about Vengeance

[Loose Cannon]

Alright, so we got 2 Championship Titles on the line for the PPV and Smackdown without a champion. I'm trying to think where they are going with this. Right now, I really believe Jericho will win the WWE Title at the PPV and go to Smackdown. I just don't see Batista losing his Title because HHH keeps bringing up the fact that he's never been beaten in Hell in the Cell. Shawn will probably beat Angle so they can have a 3rd match at Summerslam. Now if Batista and HBK win, you got to have a heel win one of the big ones. I can't see Christian winning cause they made Jericho look like the bigger deal on Raw.

Now if Jericho does win the belt and go to Smackdown, who's he feuding with? Taker is with Orton. Rey is with Eddie. Benoit is with JBL. You have Booker. Not sure when RVD will be back. Big Show is a possibility.

On the other side of the fence, what if HHH beats Batista and he goes to Smackdown with the World Title. Lots of possibilties can come out of this. Does HHH turn face and feud with JBL? Taker can feud with him, while Orton recovers.

Anyway, I'm pretty convinced somebody is dropping thier Title at the PPV. I think it's going to be Cena. And Smackdown needs a belt, so I definately see the heel that walks out with a Title at the PPV, if one even does, will go to Smackdown.

Thoughts?

[Savio]

Well I think it'll either be Christian or Y2J winning. so its win/win. I think Christian will pin Y2J. But if christian wins I think it'll be a one time only short reign.

[The CyNick]

I see a lot of people predicting that Cena will drop the WWE Title.

Anything is possible with the WWE Brain Trust, but why they would think it's a good idea to have Cena lose the title is beyond me.

He's still got to be the poster boy for the WWE at the very least until this first movie comes out, and you would think they would want him on top well beyond its release so he continues to appear to be a big star.

Next reason is the fact that he's the most over guy int he company...by far. You look in the crowd, and read reports from house shows and its obvious the fans see him as a major star. Why would they want to hurt that by having him lose the title?

Another reason is the belt itself. Why would they create thaqt new title, just to have him lose it two months later. They haven't even released a replica of the belt to get sales off of it. If he drops the title, why would people buy it? Out of siight out of mind. Under the scenario mentioned above, he could go after the World Title, but then he'd have to make a whole new spinner belt, and again, the WWE spinner title would be useless.

Then there's the issue of Jericho or Christian being the guys to beat him. Both guys are stuck in that mid card level in the fans' eyes, and having Cena lose to one of them (even in a 3 way where he doesn't have to get pinned) would be a huge blow to Cena.

I could go on.

Anyway, I just dont Cena dropping the title. I can see HHH winning the belt and taking it to SD. Depending what they do with ECW, I could see HHH being one of the lead heels against an ECW group. HHH would also have Taker, Show and Rey as potential opponents, along with whoever comes over from RAW.

Batista and Cena could stay on RAW and be the one-two babyface combo sorta like Rock and Austin, but obvioucly not as good.

The other option is to have Edge come out of Vengeance with the title (MITB stip mentioned a thousand times) and gets drafted to SD with the World Title. I like the idea of Edge getting drafted this week, and then he goes into Vengeance with some SD backup and they jump in the cage and lay out Batista (HHH would already be laid out from the match itself) and Edge picks up the scraps and gets the title that way.

Bottom line, I kinda agree there's a good chance one of the Heavyweight titles will change hands, but I think its 95-5 in favour of it being the World Title that changes nhands not the WWE Title.

[Londoner]

LC- they could always move the Benoit/JBL feud into the WWE title picture when either Christian/Y2J wins it.yeah it would be another triple threat match, but what else could you do?

[Savio]

Nah Cynick WWE knows the fans love CC. BTW I still see batista at midcard level and I saw Y2J at midcard level when he won.

[Loose Cannon]

I never thought about the Edge thing, but that would be pretty crappy to just have Edge run in thier and pin Batista for the Title, while he's knocked out. They need to have a match. I was thinking Edge would be the next opponent for Batista, if/when Batista beats HHH at the PPV.

On Cena, yea, I wouldn't have him drop any Title so soon, but to me, it just seems like the WWE is more behind Batista then Cena. But HHH has been beat twice in a row, so maybe he finally gets the win on Batista. Or Maybe Batista wins and goes to Smackdown, so the WWE would set up HHH/Cena. Then that would mean the two babyfaces walking out as Champions.

Tough call.

[The CyNick]

Nah Cynick WWE knows the fans love CC. BTW I still see batista at midcard level and I saw Y2J at midcard level when he won.

Well you may see Batista at mid card level, but its clear the fans accepted Batista as a main event guy, just based on the reactions and how he was built up before he won the title.

Christian has been jobbing every week to the IC champ, how can he then come up and win the WWE title from the most over guy in the comapny? And then there's Christian....he lost to Ric freakin Flair. It would cripple Cena to lose the WWE title at this point.

If anything, they should have him unify the titles to really establish him as the top guy.

[Savio]

And then there's Christian....he lost to Ric freakin Flair.Yeah but when HHH was champ the first or second time he had close matches with Gillberg and Funaki.

Gail Kim won the Womens title her first night.

[The CyNick]

I never thought about the Edge thing, but that would be pretty crappy to just have Edge run in thier and pin Batista for the Title, while he's knocked out. They need to have a match. I was thinking Edge would be the next opponent for Batista, if/when Batista beats HHH at the PPV.

On Cena, yea, I wouldn't have him drop any Title so soon, but to me, it just seems like the WWE is more behind Batista then Cena. But HHH has been beat twice in a row, so maybe he finally gets the win on Batista. Or Maybe Batista wins and goes to Smackdown, so the WWE would set up HHH/Cena. Then that would mean the two babyfaces walking out as Champions.

Tough call.

I disagree on Cena-Batista, again look at what Cena is doing, he's got the CD, the music video, appearances on various media outlets, the movie. I dont see the WWE rushing out to put Batista on any TV shows.

The only reason Batista is in the spot he's in is because he's working with HHH. Once that is over, Batista's time on top will be over too. Unless he goes to SD as champ over there and HHH stays on RAW.

Even this past week, Cena's angle was pushed much heavier than Batista's. If you look at the final segment, Batista came off as a B-level player behind HHH, Angle and HBK. Whereas Cena was given a lot more time to get over his angle. Even though it was positioned lower on the card (again because its not the spot with Hunter) I still felt like they were making Cena seem like the bigger deal. Moreover I thought they went out of their way to make Batista again like a B-level top star.

[The CyNick]

Yeah but when HHH was champ the first or second time he had close matches with Gillberg and Funaki.

Gail Kim won the Womens title her first night.

Its different. HHH was protected the entire time he was going up the ladder to win the title.

A heel can have close match after close match with anyone, as long as they keep the title they wont lose any heat.

[Savio]

So hed had a close match with flair then flair cheated to win.

[The CyNick]

So hed had a close match with flair then flair cheated to win.

That doesn't make him World Championship material.

There's a reason they have guys win matches before they get the title, its so people will take them seriously as main eventers.

Look how long it took for people to accept JBL on top, he had to have the longest reign in 10 years, until people started to accept him as main event guy. I doubt they'll have that long with Jericho or Christian.

[Loose Cannon]

I disagree on Cena-Batista, again look at what Cena is doing, he's got the CD, the music video, appearances on various media outlets, the movie. I dont see the WWE rushing out to put Batista on any TV shows.

The only reason Batista is in the spot he's in is because he's working with HHH. Once that is over, Batista's time on top will be over too. Unless he goes to SD as champ over there and HHH stays on RAW.

Even this past week, Cena's angle was pushed much heavier than Batista's. If you look at the final segment, Batista came off as a B-level player behind HHH, Angle and HBK. Whereas Cena was given a lot more time to get over his angle. Even though it was positioned lower on the card (again because its not the spot with Hunter) I still felt like they were making Cena seem like the bigger deal. Moreover I thought they went out of their way to make Batista again like a B-level top star.


Yea, I think the reason why I see the WWE as being more behind Batista is because he's in that main spot with Hunter. Cena being thrown in with 2 mid-carders, which is sad because they shouldn't be seen as mid-carders, got me thinking like that.

Let's say Batista loses and Cena wins. Hunter goes to Smackdown. Now who does Cena feud with? Do Cena and Batista do the babyface match thing and feud with each other. You can't really put Christian or Jericho with Cena afterwards, if Cena retains, because they're not main eventers now. You have Edge, but Edge and Cena have no heat behind them to build a Title match for Summerslam so quick. Edge/Batista is thw wiser choice.

Maybe Angle vs Cena for Summerslam?

[Savio]

That doesn't make him World Championship material.

There's a reason they have guys win matches before they get the title, its so people will take them seriously as main eventers.

Look how long it took for people to accept JBL on top, he had to have the longest reign in 10 years, until people started to accept him as main event guy. I doubt they'll have that long with Jericho or Christian.See so it could happen. Wanna make an avatar bet?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The other option is to have Edge come out of Vengeance with the title (MITB stip mentioned a thousand times) and gets drafted to SD with the World Title. I like the idea of Edge getting drafted this week, and then he goes into Vengeance with some SD backup and they jump in the cage and lay out Batista (HHH would already be laid out from the match itself) and Edge picks up the scraps and gets the title that way.

Ha that's a fuckin sick idea.

[The CyNick]

Maybe Angle vs Cena for Summerslam?

I heard that a while back.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I just can't see Triple H winning the World Heavyweight Championship and going to SD!. It makes sense to give SD! a top heel, but it doesn't make sense to do it this way, because it completely buries Batista. He loses against Triple H, remains on RAW secondary to Cena, and it destroys everything we have experienced for the last few months.

The only way I can see Triple H becomming a six-time World Heavyweight Champion is if he beats Batista with Orton's help. It highlights the rage Orton has towards Batista, because Orton is helping his worst enemy get to the top again in the process of hurting Batista. Triple H and Batista would then end up on SD! that week, with a Triple Threat between the three headlinging Summerslam. But then you have The Great American Bash. Unless you do something and have Randy Orton as the Special Guest Referee, things probably wouldn't turn out so good if you put Batista and Helmsley together again.

Edge winning the World Heavyweight Title with the MITB Title Shot is a better way to go, because it finally allows Edge to step out on his own, and doesn't hurt Batista too much. You'd then have Batista literally force Eric Bischoff to trade him to SmackDown!, which results in a feud between the two leading into The Great American Bash, where Edge goes over with the aid of Randy Orton.

I have thought through the idea of sending Jericho to SmackDown! with the WWE Title, and it's one I would LOVE to see happen. Jericho would then play the top wrestling heel alongside Randy Orton, JBL & Eddie Guerrero, which to me looks like a pretty good band of heels. Guerrero and Jericho are "A" quality wrestlers, with Randy Orton "B" quality, with HUGE potential to become "A" quality. JBL is only average in the ring, but he's entertaining, and surrounded by Orlando Jordan & The Shane Twins, he can easily pull his weight.

I can't see Christian winning the WWE Title, I just can't see it. It would probably be the best way to have him win the title by having him pick off a weakened Jericho or Cena and stealing a victory, but I can't see him winning AND going to SmackDown!. If Christian wins, and imminent rematch with Cena is in the works.

Part of me wants to see Jericho (or Eddie Guerrero is I had my way, but a lot of people would be against that idea) win the WWE Title at Vengeance, with help from Triple H. Have Hunter come out with a sledgehammer, and drill it into the skull of Christian, before hitting him in the gut, putting him down for a Lionsault, which gets the win and the title for Jericho.

Later that night Triple H is having trouble beating Batista. Hunter keeps signalling to the back for someone to come out, but they never arrive. We assume it's Ric Flair, but the next night we find out it was supposed to be Chris Jericho returning the favour for Triple H. Jericho then says he couldn't make it out because the fans in the lobbey crowded Jericho and kept him signing autographs until the match was over. Triple H and Jericho then have a bit of a brawl, which is just a little backstory planted between the two for now. Triple H has a pissed-off face Christian primarily on his plate, and Jericho has a one-on-one rematch with John Cena looming.

I'd personally have Christian go over Triple H at Summerslam with the help of Ric Flair. Christian & Ric Flair together would be gold, and can you image the sales of "I'm a member of the Christian WOOOOOO-aliton" shirts? They'd sell like hotcakes. Well, probably. Hell, throw Kurt Angle & Trish Stratus into a stable with Christian, Ric Flair & Tyson Tomko and call them Team FACTS )Flair, Angle, Christian, Tomko, Stratus)

John Cena vs. Chris Jericho can go either way, just as long as you have programs for both guys lined-up after SS.

[Fox]

I predict that both men keep their titles, and Batista is drafted to Smackdown shortly thereafter.

For one, Triple H is coming up on his record setting 17-time World Title victory in the next year or so. He wants to do it against the best and most over wrestlers, and they all appear to be on RAW (Cena, Angle, Jericho, Michaels, Christian). He also probably wants to do it with the WWE Championship as opposed to the World Heavyweight Championshipm, which really holds no powerful lineage.

A victory for Batista at Vengeance will make him a credible champion heading over to Smackdown. It will make the title seem more important when its around the waist of the man who beat Triple H three times, most recently inside the Cell.

[Extreme Angle]

i aint watching vengeance

[thuganomicalcrippler]

I think its absolutely BRILLIANT that we finally have a PPV where the title mathes are so unpredictable. Way to go, WWE.

[Stickman]

I am very uninterested in Vengence. I sure won't be watching.

[The CyNick]

I'm very interested in Angle-HBK 2. I think with only 4 matches booked on this show, and likely one more (Hassan-Benjamin), rather than wasting time with worhtless programs for guys like Vis or Hurrican and Rosey, they should let Angle-HBK go nearly an hour. Ive always wanted to see how a crowd would react to an unadvertised hour match. Let it go to a draw, and then do a third match on TV.

I was more into Cena-Christian before Cena jumped, but seeing what they've done with Christian, I almost wish he was taken out of the match, and they just let Jericho and Cena go one on one.

Batista-HHH holds no interest to me as a match, but I am a little interested ot see where they go, in terms of who gets the title and then if one of them wind up on SD.

[srnrew]

With all the surprises the WWE brass have been pulling, how shocking would it be if they just kept both titles on RAW and came out with some sort of Smackdown championship belt? lol

[AareDub]

I can't see HHH, Christian, or Jericho going to SD with a belt. I'm not so sure that SD needs another big heel. They gave away the biggest face guy and only got Benoit in return. Benoit is great, but I haven't seen anything lately that leads me to believe that the WWE wants to push him back towards the top face for a brand. That leads me to believe that Batista will be retaining and taking the belt to SD.

That would lead to HHH v. Cena at Summerslam, as well as Batista v. Edge (drafted to SD) redeeming his MITB match. JBL v. Benoit and Orton v. Taker would be the SD undercard on the show.

Then again, they could have HHH win and go to SD then give us the Batista/Cena match they teased at Royal Rumble.

Long story short, I have no idea what's gonna happen

[Dave Youell]

Jericho is not going to win the title, mainly because he is still yet to sign a new contract, his current one is due up in September, if you were Vince why would you invest in a guy who might be gone in a few months?

Christian in all honesty doesn't need the title, it's not going to get him more over IMO, he needs a face turn soon though and maybe then another title shot.

Keep it on Cena for the minute, IF he's going to stay on Raw they are going to want to keep him hot till at least his movie comes out. Trading him and then having him job to a guy who's never been in the main event scene or a guy who hasn't been in the scene for over 3 years is going to make Cena look weak as fuck.

Cena of course will eventually feud with trips and then drop it, but not till after the Summer I reckon.

Have Edge get traded to Smackdown and then have an interpromotional match with Big Dave and title the a title to SD that way :y:

[RGWhat316]

I'm with the majority here in saying that I'm undecided what is going to happen. This is probably the most unpredictible card they've had in a while. I think most of this is due to the fact that both titles are on one show while the draft is going on. One of the winners will be going to SmackDown with their belt.

I'm also confused since I just joined the WWE Fantasy League, so I'm trying to predict the winners to get max points. I would take all 5 in the title matches, except there is a limit.

[Team Sheep]

Definetely ordering Vengeance, I'm pumped for every match so far. Plus the fact that I haven't missed a PPV for years.

[Rain Man]

I really don't see Cena loosing his title. I wouldn't be surprised at all if HHH wins the title and than is traded to Smackdown. I think the whole Orton-Taker feud is going to go like Orton just messing with the Undertakers head nothing to physical untill he is recovered.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well let's look at who CAN'T take a major Championship to SmackDown!.

John Cena
If Cena takes the WWE Title back to SD!, it will make him look like a complete tool, and it will give an "all for nothing" feel to the draft. Cena NEEDS to stay on RAW for this draft, and although I can see him getting traded back, I really believe they keep him on RAW for the sake of his character.

Triple H
This really makes no sense to me. Why would you spend 7 months building up a face, only to have him ultimately lose to the bad guy? What good does that do? It makes Batista look extremely weak, and the only upside would be high quality Triple H vs. Chris Benoit and Triple H vs. Rey Mysterio matches on SD!. Triple H also nullifies the need for JBL and Randy Orton on SD!, shattering SD!'s ranks even more.

To be honest, these are the only two restrictions I can see for "SmackDown! Champions". Let's look at who CAN take a belt to SD!.

Batista
It sort of makes sense to have Batista go to SD!, but I do't really know if it would be wise. 'Tista would be a big fish in a small pond on Smackers, and that could hide his weaknesses, but it seems too "bizarre" both Champions swap brands. Anywho, Batista on SD! seems like a good way to go, because you can easily have Batista vs. The Big Show, Batista vs. Rey Mysterio (which would be a fun match), Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, Batista vs. JBL, Batista vs. The Undertaker (which would probably be the main feud you'll get from Batista on SD!), Batista vs. Chris Benoit & Batista vs. Randy Orton. Seven potential feuds/matches, which isn't too bad. Maybe even feed Orlando Jordan to Batista when he gets there, giving Batista a reign with the WWE United States Championship as well as the World Heavyweight Championship. If you're ever running low on heels, you can always have Edge come over and steal the World Heavyweight Championship from Batista using the MITB Title Shot, before becomming a full-time member of the SD! roster.

There's also Chris Jericho, Christian & Edge, but I also wouldn't mind seeing Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels take it over (it most likely be Michaels using this method).

Triple H vs. Batista argueably has enough heat on it to not warrant the title being on line. The WWE COULD have Batista vs. Kurt Angle on RAW be for the World Heavyweight Championship, where Angle actually wins the title with help from Shawn Michaels (so then HBK vs. Angle II can be for the World Heavyweight Championship). HBK then wins the title, and gets drafted over to SD! the next week. I suppose you could have Angle drafted as well (which would go against the belief you can only be drafted once), or have him traded.