For Better Or For Worse? Bischoff Takes Vinces Place

[Just John]

would you say it would be better or worse? before you go on about Vince have a think if it really would be good without him mabye Bischoff will screw things up who knows?


just a random thing I thought would make a good debate - shoot me

[Lamuella]

I'm going to need more background on just what the fuck you are talking about

[M. Banana]

*bang*

[Just John]

Like I said it is pretty random.

I wondered something, Vince does have a habit of screwing things up big time so I thought what if my favorite GM ever took his place?


Would it be better or worse would we see more cruiserweights and less pathetic draw picks, would we get a draw?

I just wondered if you thought it would be better or worse if Eric ruled the roost and why.

[Lamuella]

much much much much worse

Bischoff KILLED WCW. Killed it stone dead.

[SuperSlim]

if Bischoff ruled then WWE would eventually die

[Just John]

well that beats the shit out of the debate I think what a waste of time lol

[SuperSlim]

nahh free post. besides there is still enough time to turn this thread into somethin else.

I propose we tlak about fried chicken

[Kane Knight]

much much much much worse

Bischoff KILLED WCW. Killed it stone dead.
Bischoff didn't kill WCW. Shannon Moore killed WCW.

[Kane Knight]

if Bischoff ruled then WWE would eventually die
IS this any different from Vince?

[Corkscrewed]

Bischoff didn't kill WCW. <s>Shannon Moore killed WCW</s> Shane McMahon killed WCW.


....when he bought it.












Duh.














































:shifty:

[The CyNick]

I wanted to see what Bischoff would have done with WCW if he would have bought it before Vince. Just to see if Bisch learned from his mistakes.

I actually think the WWE is currently run almost the same way it would be if Bisch was in control.

Bisch was a mark for guys with star power. So that would mean HHH, HBK, Taker, Angle and so on would be the top guys....not much different.

Bisch hates tag team wrestling, so it wouldn't get much play....not much different.

Bisch did let the CW's work....so you'd probably have a more consistant role for the CW division at the beginning of the shows. They still wouldn't get over though, because they would be used as cannon fodder for big guys.....not much different.

I guess the other main difference is thqt Bischoff would likely still have guys like Goldberg, Austin, Hogan and Sting on the shows. He would get them just to be TV characters (only work once a week) but still put them in top positions. The thinking being, they will do TV numbers and theoretically should do PPV numbers (even if they actually dont).

On the other hand, if Bischoff was the guy who put Nitro head up with RAW, he is the guy who killed squash matches on TV and made every segment mean something, he also gave us PPV (sorta) quality main events every week on TV. He also introduced the CWs to a major national audience, and of course he had the homeruns with NWO and Goldberg. So there's a track record there to make you think he could do some good.

Of course he's never had the success Vince has had, so they're probably better off where they are.

[SuperSlim]

IS this any different from Vince?

Well Bischoff struck it like the plague... quick death.

Vince's is more like cancer. Long. that's the only difference I see.

[Kane Knight]

Well Bischoff struck it like the plague... quick death.

Vince's is more like cancer. Long. that's the only difference I see.
I don't think it'd be THAT quick.

[SuperSlim]

nah... but I think that at least with Vince in control, the death wouldn't come as soon as if Bischoff was in control cause he woudl want ot bring in all these guys that can't do much just for "ratings" killing off potential future main eventers.

While Vince would keep teh younger main eventers... like the ones that can still compete on TV and not rely to heavily on the old guys to pull in the "ratings."

[Just John]

Well Bischoff struck it like the plague... quick death.

Vince's is more like cancer. Long. that's the only difference I see.



LOL unless Vince dies first.......I'll outlive him if it kills me!!! THEY WONT TAKE ME ALIVE!!!



Yes Im having a little paranoia for breakfast :shifty:

[PureHatred]

CyNick turned trash into gold in this thread.

[Schoenauer]

Doesn't he always do that though Hatred?

[TerranRich]

Why do you guys think Bischoff killed WCW? I shouldn't even have to tell you guys this, but Vince Russo most definitely signed WCW's death certificate with his asinine booking and ridiculous stories. Bischoff wasn't around during Russo's reign until much later on. If you read "The Death of WCW" you will find out who really killed WCW. And it wasn't Bischoff.

[LK]

WCW was already in the shitter before Russo came along. Russo just put the final nail in the coffin.

[Kane Knight]

WCW was already in the shitter before Russo came along. Russo just put the final nail in the coffin.
Yeah, this was an organisation that even JEsus couldn't save.

Eric still screwed up a lot, but it's not like he was the only one to blame...Or the biggest case. HE's the last one, which is why people jump on him.

[PureHatred]

Were we reading the same book? Because what I got out of "Death of WCW" was the overlying message that the biggest reason for WCW's downfall was its unwillingness to change its formula and create new stars when it was at its peak (during the nWo era). And that was totally under the purview of Eric Bischoff. EB spentso much time cowtowing to the whims of guys like Nash and Hogan that he allowed all the major undercard stars on his roster waste away and eventually go on to become bigger stars in the WWE.

He was directly responsible for firing/releasing/allowing to leave: Austin, Foley, and Jericho. And the book said it best when it talked about the Starcade where Hogan made Sting look like a fool and Bret Hart debuted as a ref in a Bishoff match against Larry Zbysko: it was huge money but it was a model of what was wrong with the company and a sign of the bad times to come.

[tucsonspeed6]

EB spentso much time cowtowing to the whims of guys like Nash and Hogan that he allowed all the major undercard stars on his roster waste away and eventually go on to become bigger stars in the WWE.

Does anyone in the WWE have Creative Control? I ask because I think Hogan was more of a problem to the company than Bischoff was. Even when Bischoff DID want to push younger guys, like when he tried to push Billy Kidman, Hogan allowed him to win matches but never put him over.

So even if Bischoff WANTED to bring up younger guys, he couldn't because the top guys would refuse to lose to lower card young guys.

[LK]

Who gave these guys Creative Control?

[tucsonspeed6]

I think it was part of WCW's effort to steal major talent from the WWF.

Kinda like saying "Here, we'll give you more money, and you can have Creative Control." Who in their right mind would want to stay with the WWF with that kinda deal? So the big names like Hogan and Nash had CC, while the young upstarts didn't.

[M. Banana]

nahh free post. besides there is still enough time to turn this thread into somethin else.

I propose we tlak about fried chicken
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/hollandbellpepper.jpg

[The CyNick]

Thats what kinda gets overlooked when people talk about Bischoff's shortcomings.

He had to cater to those established guys in order to bring them to WCW and get people to watch his product over the WWE's.

So its kinda one of those ironic deals, where what made it strong also crippled it. Which is what Bischoff did. However, I do feel it was still in decent shape when Russo took over. What Russo did was to turn it into a joke, and I feel he ultimately made it so that WCW as a name has a negative stigma.

I mean even though Bischoff made a ton of mistakes, and he let a lot of great pieces of talent go, he still didn't make the WCW brand a living joke.

[tucsonspeed6]

Thats what kinda gets overlooked when people talk about Bischoff's shortcomings.

He had to cater to those established guys in order to bring them to WCW and get people to watch his product over the WWE's.

So its kinda one of those ironic deals, where what made it strong also crippled it. Which is what Bischoff did. However, I do feel it was still in decent shape when Russo took over. What Russo did was to turn it into a joke, and I feel he ultimately made it so that WCW as a name has a negative stigma.

I mean even though Bischoff made a ton of mistakes, and he let a lot of great pieces of talent go, he still didn't make the WCW brand a living joke.

Agreed. :y:

BTW, you mentioned this above:

I wanted to see what Bischoff would have done with WCW if he would have bought it before Vince. Just to see if Bisch learned from his mistakes.

I was wondering if you buy into the rumors that Bischoff was trying to purposely kill off the company so he could buy it for himself. Cause if it were true, his mistakes wouldn't have been mistakes.

[LK]

My take on the subject is that Eric Bischoff had a hand in the eventual demise of WCW.

I understand why he did what he did to get the top talent. He needed them in order to compete with the WWE and have a real cahnce of winning the fight. But you can't give creative control to guys like Hogan, Savage, Hall or Nash and not expect any problems.

In my mind I think that Bischoff's biggest mistake was alienating his real workers. Raven/Benoit/Malenko/Saturn/Jericho/Guerrero. The real workers of WCW who cared about it but were driven to the point that they didn't even want to show up for work. I'm sure there were others who didn't like working for WCW but didn't announce cause they feared for their jobs and weren't sure if they could just head over to the WWE. When these guys don't want to work for you, then he was in trouble. Cause then all he had left with is a bunch of guys who are so demoralised that they don't want to work for him and guys who weren't too interested in giving it their all and were more concerned in getting their paycheck.

The lack of internal organisation was also ridiculous. I couldn't believe what Booker T said in the Monday Night Wars DVD about how somethimes Nitro would be starting and people wouldn't know what they were doing for the night. I couldn't believe what Bret Hart said in a shoot interview about the night that he returned to WCW and with only 30 seconds to go before he's supposed to go out, he's talking with Bischoff about what he's supposed to say in his comeback interview.

[Pete13]

it's amazing just how capable bischoff can be is sometimes in screwing things up when he's in charge.
worse ofcourse.

[Batsu]

What Russo did was to turn it into a joke, and I feel he ultimately made it so that WCW as a name has a negative stigma.

I mean even though Bischoff made a ton of mistakes, and he let a lot of great pieces of talent go, he still didn't make the WCW brand a living joke.

Agreed. RUSSO killed WCW more than Bischoff ever did. When creative writers show up on TV, you know you're in trouble. We didn't need to see Ed Ferrara (Okla-homo or whatever he called himself) or Russo himself on TV. He sucked. Only thing I liked involving Russo was that Bash At The Beach segment, but by then WCW had already started falling apart. The Bill Busch era of WCW wasn't great either, but....Russo really needed to stay off TV. He might have done some great things in WWE but...ultimately some of the stuff he's done has been more of a negative for the business than a positive.

If there was one wrong thing WCW did besides giving the ex-WWE wrestlers too much power for their own good and trying to "copy" WWE instead of differentiating themselves from the competition (ECW never did that, they lampooned it)...it was putting Russo and other writers on TV. That sucked.

[diamondcutter]

I would give him another shot, as it's a completely different dynamic than WCW. For one thing, WCW didn't really have a sole, interactive head honcho. Benoit alluded to this on the Monday Night War DVD when he said that you needed to go to three different people to get any answers there. He also seems like a guy who wouldn't make the same screw ups twice.

[FourFifty]

Judy Bagwell on a pole!

end of thread