wtf? -About Christian

[PullMyFinger]

I don't get where they're going with him. He needs to be on Raw as far as I'm concerned. I thought he was supposed to feud longterm with John Cena? I guess that went nowhere now that he's on Raw and CC is on SD!

Anyone else feel a bit let down as far as the trades go?

CC shouldve been sent back to Raw for either Jericho or Carlito.

[SuperSlim]

well they could continue to do like words being tossed at either or of them from their respected shows and meet up someowhere down the road at one of those interpromotional PPVs

[Watson]

Hopefully they'll keep him in Midcard Hell on Smackdown a few weeks feuding him with the likes of Hardcore Holly and Charlie Haas, then release him as part of the roster cuts. Ahh, it's so nice to dream.

(Waits to be neg repped and flamed by those who think Jason Reso is the "next big thing" and that he deserves to win the "big one")

[Schoenauer]

I think they should meet at Wrestlemania 22 and bring together a great show. But I think Captain Charisma needed to be on SmackDown! so he could go for a championship without Triple H to hold him back.

[M. Banana]

I'm glad Christian is on SmackDown now, I watch SmackDown a hell of a lot more than I watch Raw...

[Face Heely]

There wasn't much of a response to him on SD....but the poor fans had been there for hours, and had already seen him once that night. Still, he doesn't have anything immediate going for him. Maybe a feud with someone unoccupied, like Booker T, so fans who don't watch RAW (yes, they exist!) get a better feel for his character/style?

[Corkscrewed]

Christian stands a much better chance of main eventing on SD than on RAW.

[Nark Order]

Hopefully they'll keep him in Midcard Hell on Smackdown a few weeks feuding him with the likes of Hardcore Holly and Charlie Haas, then release him as part of the roster cuts. Ahh, it's so nice to dream.

(Waits to be neg repped and flamed by those who think Jason Reso is the "next big thing" and that he deserves to win the "big one")
Wait no longer.

Reso is one of the only sure things the WWE has left. If they don't use him to his full potential then it will just go down as another one of the biggest wastes in WWE company history (Alongside of Ted Dibiase, Owen Hart, Ron Killings, AJ Styles, etc, etc, etc.....) You are clearly misguided if you believe for even one second that the likes of Baldcore and Haas are even on the same level of raw talet

[NoRoolz]

I think they're still planning a Cena/Christian feud down the line, it will be like one of the most built-up feuds ever, over the next 6 months or so, have them trash-talk each other. Christian saying that Cena was lucky he got drafted to SmackDown, and at joint events like SummerSlam and Survivor Series they can have confrontations. Then at the Royal Rumble, Christian wins it and chooses to go back to RAW to face Cena at WM22.

[M. Banana]

I'd love to see Christian feud with Cena. But I'd like to see him feud with bigger people, like Batista, Undertaker. Big in size, that is. You know, have him get over like that may it be with cheap wins or whatever.

[PullMyFinger]

I like the sound of that.

edit: er...to no rulz

[Schoenauer]

Just a reminder that negative repping Prodcore Holly will result in you getting neg reps back. Now Prodcore, I know you like Holly, but he will get no chance in hell at a title shot.

[Watson]

Wait no longer.

Reso is one of the only sure things the WWE has left. If they don't use him to his full potential then it will just go down as another one of the biggest wastes in WWE company history (Alongside of Ted Dibiase, Owen Hart, Ron Killings, AJ Styles, etc, etc, etc.....) You are clearly misguided if you believe for even one second that the likes of Baldcore and Haas are even on the same level of raw talet

Christian is nowhere near being in the same category as DiBiase, Hart, Killings, and especially not AJ Styles. I will NEVER be convinced that Christian deserves to be on the main event level, Hell as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be on the Intercontinental/US title level. He just seems completely avaerage to me. Average mic skills, average ring skills, silly costume, etc. Any wrestler who has to be given a nickname with the word "charisma" in it in order to get over is lacking in that department (example: TNA calling Jeff Hardy the "Charismatic Enigma" in order to get him over more when Jeff Hardy is anything BUT charismatic.).

I just don't see Christian as being a big star. It befuddles me how so many "Internet Fans" seem to think he should be main eventing. Personally I think it's bullshit. The only good thing about Christian is he has been with WWE for quite a while and he's tolerable as a tag team wrestler but in my opinion that's aboot it. I think the reason he gets the TV time he gets now is because he's one of Vince's favorites. The day Christian wins either the WWE title or the World Heavyweight title is the day I quit watching WWE for good and I've been watching wrestling for 25 years.

[Watson]

Just a reminder that negative repping Prodcore Holly will result in you getting neg reps back. Now Prodcore, I know you like Holly, but he will get no chance in hell at a title shot.
Prodcore Holly? LMAO!!!................:wtf:

You = Stupid

[James Steele]

Go suck a massive throbbing cock.

[James Steele]

You whiny little bitch.

[Schoenauer]

Are you just calling me stupid because I don't like Hardcore Holly and you were personally offended, or are you just saying that because I appreciate Captain Charisma more than you?

[Lara Emily]

Christian is nowhere near being in the same category as DiBiase, Hart, Killings, and especially not AJ Styles. I will NEVER be convinced that Christian deserves to be on the main event level, Hell as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be on the Intercontinental/US title level. He just seems completely avaerage to me. Average mic skills, average ring skills, silly costume, etc. Any wrestler who has to be given a nickname with the word "charisma" in it in order to get over is lacking in that department (example: TNA calling Jeff Hardy the "Charismatic Enigma" in order to get him over more when Jeff Hardy is anything BUT charismatic.).

I just don't see Christian as being a big star. It befuddles me how so many "Internet Fans" seem to think he should be main eventing. Personally I think it's bullshit. The only good thing about Christian is he has been with WWE for quite a while and he's tolerable as a tag team wrestler but in my opinion that's aboot it. I think the reason he gets the TV time he gets now is because he's one of Vince's favorites. The day Christian wins either the WWE title or the World Heavyweight title is the day I quit watching WWE for good and I've been watching wrestling for 25 years.

Rrrrigh all the shit that's happened with the title and you keep watching for 25 years but the minute Christian, an above average worker at the very least, wins you're done? Instant crediblity there http://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/blah.gif. Not to mention you seem to rank AJ Styles above Dibiase and Owen Hart.

[darkpower]

Christian is nowhere near being in the same category as DiBiase, Hart, Killings, and especially not AJ Styles. I will NEVER be convinced that Christian deserves to be on the main event level, Hell as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be on the Intercontinental/US title level. He just seems completely avaerage to me. Average mic skills, average ring skills, silly costume, etc. Any wrestler who has to be given a nickname with the word "charisma" in it in order to get over is lacking in that department (example: TNA calling Jeff Hardy the "Charismatic Enigma" in order to get him over more when Jeff Hardy is anything BUT charismatic.).

I just don't see Christian as being a big star. It befuddles me how so many "Internet Fans" seem to think he should be main eventing. Personally I think it's bullshit. The only good thing about Christian is he has been with WWE for quite a while and he's tolerable as a tag team wrestler but in my opinion that's aboot it. I think the reason he gets the TV time he gets now is because he's one of Vince's favorites. The day Christian wins either the WWE title or the World Heavyweight title is the day I quit watching WWE for good and I've been watching wrestling for 25 years.
For one thing, Christian is becoming a top draw right now, which is something the WWE needs on either brand to get people to want to watch it again. His Captian Charisma gimmick is getting over with the fans, and that is something that they can use to their advantage. Giving him a title run should be among their plans right now, and I'm not sure why you're not liking him. Sure, he's no Bret Hart, Eddie Guererro or Kurt Angle, but he's got the charisma (hence his gimmick name) necessary and more skills than some of the WWE roster right now.

Plus, this is the type of stuff that I thought the WWE should do for SmackDown so people will WANT to watch on Friday nights. So they will WANT to watch two wrestling shows, so they CAN piss off the RAW fanboys in saying, "look, we got this other show you should be liking and watching, too." And Christian is one of those guys that they should be doing.

Plus imagine him winning the WHC, then him and Cena have a interpromotinal match at Summerslam for the ultimate Champion vs. Champion match.

[Watson]

Rrrrigh all the shit that's happened with the title and you keep watching for 25 years but the minute Christian, an above average worker at the very least, wins you're done? Instant crediblity there http://tpww.net/forums/images/smilies/blah.gif. Not to mention you seem to rank AJ Styles above Dibiase and Owen Hart.
First of all Christian being an above average wrestler is your opinion. You may think fact but I would disagree and I'm sure there are others who would disagree as well as those that do agree. Everybody sees things differently. IMO Christian is average at best.

Secondly I didn't rank AJ Styles above DiBiase and Owen Hart as far as being a great wrestler I said especially not AJ Styles based on AJ's in-ring ability. AJ doesn't even compare to DiBiase and Hart in the storytelling aspect of wrestling. I emphasized AJ Styles because Christian is nowhere near being even remotely as good as an in-ring performer as AJ Styles.

[darkpower]

First of all Christian being an above average wrestler is your opinion. You may think fact but I would disagree and I'm sure there are others who would disagree as well as those that do agree. Everybody sees things differently. IMO Christian is average at best.

Secondly I didn't rank AJ Styles above DiBiase and Owen Hart as far as being a great wrestler I said especially not AJ Styles based on AJ's in-ring ability. AJ doesn't even compare to DiBiase and Hart in the storytelling aspect of wrestling. I emphasized AJ Styles because Christian is nowhere near being even remotely as good as an in-ring performer as AJ Styles.
First off, she is taking on your ignorance to Christian possibly being a main event in that notion that you said you would stop watching if Christain ever became the WWE Champ or the WHC. The WWE Champ is now on Cena (someone that the internet fans seem to hate with a fucking passion) and the WHC has been HHH-branded for years. How is giving Christian either belt making things worse?

And you're acting as though there is no room for improvement, and that he can never improve his in-ring abilities.

Bottom line is that the WWE is getting him over in that he's becoming a likeabile heel.

In my mind, you must've confused Christian with Tyson Tomko.

[M. Banana]

Christian > You

[Watson]

Christian > You
Newman > You

[Schoenauer]

Christian > Hardcore Holly

So therefore

Christian > You.

[M. Banana]

Prodigy > The Prodigy

[Shadow]

Look Progcore....not everyone can be a bully like Hardkore Holly. Some people earn their shots through hard work and dermination to find something that sticks. Not everyone can just say, "I want a title shot and I want one NOW!".

And yes...CC can actually be the next big thing. Not because he's got the word, "Charisma" in his name. But because he's actually found something that gets him over with the fans. Not us smarks who Vince doesn't care about anyway. But the marks who's attention spans can be measured in nanoseconds. Got it?

Now take it home James Steele.

[M. Banana]

Shadow > The Prodigy

[M. Banana]

Christian > Shadow > Bobcore > Triple H > Chris Masters > ndsftne = cheese < subway

[M. Banana]

poor ndsftne

[Shadow]

Christian > Shadow > Bobcore > Triple H > Chris Masters > ndsftne = cheese < subway

Wow...someone hasn't been around me long.

Or perhaps you are and the contact high is getting to you.

[M. Banana]

I'm M. Banana foo'!

someone fuggin' banned that username

[Shadow]

.............

SOMEONE TELL YOUR HERO! BANANA IS BACK!

You were banned for some other reason...I dunno.

[M. Banana]

shhhh... im pretty sure he knows i have this username btw

make a topic and ask why i was banned

ill give you some shrooms or something

[Shadow]

I do pot...not shrooms.

No wonder you were banned.

[Just John]

You remind me of a palm tree that randomly appears out of nowhere, says a strange comment then flies off....

[Loose Cannon]

Christian is nowhere near being in the same category as DiBiase, Hart, Killings, and especially not AJ Styles. I will NEVER be convinced that Christian deserves to be on the main event level, Hell as far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be on the Intercontinental/US title level. He just seems completely avaerage to me. Average mic skills, average ring skills, silly costume, etc. Any wrestler who has to be given a nickname with the word "charisma" in it in order to get over is lacking in that department (example: TNA calling Jeff Hardy the "Charismatic Enigma" in order to get him over more when Jeff Hardy is anything BUT charismatic.).

I just don't see Christian as being a big star. It befuddles me how so many "Internet Fans" seem to think he should be main eventing. Personally I think it's bullshit. The only good thing about Christian is he has been with WWE for quite a while and he's tolerable as a tag team wrestler but in my opinion that's aboot it. I think the reason he gets the TV time he gets now is because he's one of Vince's favorites. The day Christian wins either the WWE title or the World Heavyweight title is the day I quit watching WWE for good and I've been watching wrestling for 25 years.


WOW, your opinion, but I don't get it at all. The guy busts his ass every time he goes out there and GETS A REACTION. Isn't that what a wrestler is suppossed to do? He has been buried countless times and is still over with the fans. How you cannot appreciate that makes me wonder if you're really a wrestling fan. I give the guy all the credit he deserves because he's not a guy that plays the political game, as he takes what gets and does wonders with anything. One of Vince's favorites? Where did you even here that from? Trust me, with the talent he has, he would be Champion and be getting a mega push if he was one of Vince's favorites.

[Just John]

I can't beleive somone said that about Christian I'm not getting into a fight or nothing but I have to take obvious sides with LC the 'E' in WWE is for entertainment and Christian entertains me.

[Loose Cannon]

Oh yea and AJ Styles. Pretty dumb to compare WWE wrestlers and Indy wrestlers because WWE wrestlers are always limited on what they can do in the ring. I mean AJ has never worked for a big company yet. Half those moves he does probably wouldn't be allowed. AJ has poor psychology, lacks a little in mic work and does a lot of flashy moves. He's good, yea. But it depends on what we're actually comparing here and the preference of the person.

[Watson]

WOW, your opinion, but I don't get it at all. The guy busts his ass every time he goes out there and GETS A REACTION. Isn't that what a wrestler is suppossed to do? He has been buried countless times and is still over with the fans. How you cannot appreciate that makes me wonder if you're really a wrestling fan. I give the guy all the credit he deserves because he's not a guy that plays the political game, as he takes what gets and does wonders with anything. One of Vince's favorites? Where did you even here that from? Trust me, with the talent he has, he would be Champion and be getting a mega push if he was one of Vince's favorites.
That's a good point; Christian has busted his ass for the company for that I give him all the credit in the world. But that still doesn't mean he should be World Champion. He's been buried quite often too. But both those things are what a wrestler is supposed to do. Just because he's busted his ass for WWE for about 8 or 9 years and has been buried a few times doesn't mean he should be main eventing. I don't see nothing about Christian that makes him special or stand out in any kind of way. He's got a stupid gimmick and his wrestling skills are nothing great either. In my opinion a main eventer should be intense and energetic and exciting to watch. Christian is just a generic worker, period, and generic workers getting titles is why WWE is in the shape it's in now.

Everybody keeps talking about how damn over Christian is but it doesn't seem that way to me. His pops are nowhere near as big as Cena's and many people say that Cena shouldn't be where he is. I'm not a big fan of Cena either but atleast he's somewhat exciting to watch. Christian is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Say what you want about why Christian should be pushed toward a World title run but the bottom line is he's just another guy that the "Internet smarks" thinks is being held down and therefore everyone bitches about how he should be pushed. Then when somebody like myself points out how damn overrated that particular wrestler is then people get all offended. Well I don't give a damn what anybody says Christian will never win the WWE or World title because he just ain't good enough. End of story.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't think he should be champion right now because he hasn't been built up like a HHH yet. Only those guys should be the champions because of the strong buildups. But Christian has never and probably will never be given a strong build. You can't deny the crowd reaction every week. Add in victories for 7 months straight over strong opponents and you've got yourself a main eventer, who can work the mic, work the crowd and actually wrestle. Not a seen combo these days, except with a few.

No his pops aren't as big as Cena's. Cena is a babyface who've they pushed strong for the past year or so. Of course they would be bigger then a midcard heels. You're the first person I've heard (Internet or Casual fan) say Christian is as exciting as watching paint dry, but whatever.

What exactly don't you like about him that you like about others on the roster? Actually, who is your favorite wrestlers on the roster?

[road doggy dogg]

Christian rox my sox

[Shadow]

Way to sum up there RDD....

Seriouslly though, who would've thunk that Christian, a dude who to be perfectly honest with you, I would've never thought he was going to get out of the Tag Team stigma. Now he's very popular, getting super skilled on the mic, and has a decent arsenal. Plus he's really got a good look going for him that I doubt he'll let go.

And I think RDD really summed it up.

[Nark Order]

I'm interested to here The Prodigy's picks for whom he think should be future main eventers.

[jindrak]

I'm glad Christian is on SmackDown now, I watch SmackDown a hell of a lot more than I watch Raw...
I'm the opposite. I rarely ever watch SD! If anything, I'll get the spoilers to know whats what.

[Schoenauer]

I'm interested to here The Prodigy's picks for whom he think should be future main eventers.
I'll speak on behalf of Prodigy

Hardcore Holly
Mark Jindrak
Chris Masters
The Hurricane
Rosey
Heidenreich
Steven Richards

[Watson]

What exactly don't you like about him that you like about others on the roster? Actually, who is your favorite wrestlers on the roster?For some reason I've just never liked Christian. Never. He's just always seemed dull to me even more-so than Edge. I absolutely hated their tag team. To me the whole gimmicked just completely sucked. I did, however, like The Brood but that's mostly because of David Heath (Gangrel). But Christian has never been interesting to me whatsoever. Although I'll give him credit on one thing, I thought he worked the love triangle with Jericho and Trish pretty good. Even though I knew before their match at Wrestlemania 20 that Trish was going to turn heel I still liked how the angle was played out. But then Tomko came and Christian said "problem solver" atleast 100 times in every promo he done around that time and once again he was dull. I can't explain why I don't like the guy, I just don't like him and it's not because of his gimmick or the fact that he's a heel. I dislike him because I just think he's a shitty performer and until he proves me otherwise I will stongly believe that. Period.

As far as who my favorite wrestlers on the current roster are, well, to be honest I don't have any favorites. I just don't see anybody that stands out or anybody that could be the next Austin, Rock, Flair, etc. There's some good wrestlers on the roster, don't get me wrong, but nobody really all that special. There's some guys with good in-ring skills, there's guy with good mic skills, and there's guys with good ring psychology but in my opinion nobody currently on WWE's roster has enough of all three of those qualities. To me, a truly great wrestler must excel in all three qualities.

[Loose Cannon]

not even Angle?

Ok, well who's your favorite in any fed out there?

[Nark Order]

At least you know your shit and you're not being an asshole mark. You're just not a fan of him, that's understandable I guess. It is your perspective. I personally am very impressed with the Christian character the past couple of years. I think it's really evolved into something we all can enjoy. It's good to me because nobody expected that he would grow on the fans and actually be worthy of the main event (which obviously some still don't think he is worty) and now he's proving alot of people wrong. Xtian is gold IMO

[Batsu]

Hopefully they'll keep him in Midcard Hell on Smackdown a few weeks feuding him with the likes of Hardcore Holly and Charlie Haas, then release him as part of the roster cuts. Ahh, it's so nice to dream.

(Waits to be neg repped and flamed by those who think Jason Reso is the "next big thing" and that he deserves to win the "big one")

ALEYLEEEEEEEEEEEEEY
LEAAAAAAAAALEEEEEEY
LEEEEEEEEEEEEAYAY
ALEH...

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/images/Superstars/29272/hassan_action.jpg

This reply has now been HASSAN-ED.

[Watson]

not even Angle?

Ok, well who's your favorite in any fed out there?

Well yeah Kurt Angle's got a pretty good combination of those things but his mic skills are pretty limited. Also, he hasn't really reinvented himself much over the past few years. Just as Sting said on "Sting: Unmasked" a truly great wrestler must find ways to reinvent himself after he's done the same thing for so long. Angle hasn't really changed much in the last few years. And yes he's a magnificent worker but he doesn't have good in-ring chemistry with everybody. Most big names he does but some guys I just don't think he works good matches with. But Angle is definitely one of the better workers in WWE. He works a good heel because he's the guy you love to hate and he doesn't make it too obvious that that is what his purpose is in the first place. He doesn't make it blatantly obvious that he is acting and getting his lines from a script. IMO Christian does make it obvious. For example, the promos I mentioned before where he would just say "problem solver" over and over. He made it way too obvious that they told him backstage to make it a point to emphasize Tomko's nickname. Just a bad actor in my view.


The only wrestler that really pops in my ahead as being TRUE greatness is Raven. Yeah some people say he's a little past his prime but that doesn't make a damn bit a difference, he's still better than anybody on Vince's roster with the exception of Flair who is really past his prime. I also think Chris Sabin has an extremely bright future but it's just going to take him a while to get there. Chris Daniels is also a great competitor. Love that BMS. I can't really comment much on TNA because it's been awhile since I've seen Impact and I don't get to watch ROH, OVW, or any of the other big indy feds. So I guess I would go with Raven as my favorite wrestler that's currently active. He's got all the major tools a truly great wrestler must possess.

[Nark Order]

Kurt's mic skills are limited?? Are you joking?

[Watson]

Kurt's mic skills are limited?? Are you joking?
Nope

[Loose Cannon]

Well there is a reason Raven has never been a main guy in a major company before. He has a cult of fans, but the mass audience really doesn't care about him at all. He's never been a huge draw to a mass market and never will be.

Flair greater then everyone on the WWE roster, which I think you're saying also, is pretty funny.

[Loose Cannon]

Did you hear all he big pops Raven got in the WWE? Neither did I.

[Watson]

Raven wasn't over in WWE because he wasn't properly pushed.

[Nark Order]

Raven wasn't over in the WWE because he didn't hold the interest of the casual wrestling fans.

[Loose Cannon]

What about WCW? He had he fans of course, but never really amounted to anything past mid-status. He's had the same gimmick forever and that's all he can really do. I was a huge Raven fan too, but saying he's better then the entire WWE roster is crazy I think. The only thing we can base who's better then who is by drawing power, ticket/merchendise/video sales, main eventing matches consistently and crowd reactions. And Raven was never really at the top there in WWE or WCW, which are the only two companies really worth mentioning.

[Watson]

What about WCW? He had he fans of course, but never really amounted to anything past mid-status. He's had the same gimmick forever and that's all he can really do. I was a huge Raven fan too, but saying he's better then the entire WWE roster is crazy I think. The only thing we can base who's better then who is by drawing power, ticket/merchendise/video sales, main eventing matches consistently and crowd reactions. And Raven was never really at the top there in WWE or WCW, which are the only two companies really worth mentioning.
That was back then. Wrestling fans and their perspective on the sport has evolved over the years. Raven was really over in ECW in the mid-90s and then when he went to WCW, then later WWE, he wasn't over as much. But that was because a majority of wrestling fans (marks) didn't really understand him or his gimmick. Back in those days everybody wasn't a "smart mark" like today and so therefore most marks didn't really get the character of Raven. But these days so many wrestling fans are on the Internet and there all reading about things that go on backstage.

For instance, Matt Hardy wasn't hugely over the last few times we saw him on WWE TV but since they fired him and the whole story broke out about the love triangle between himself, Lita, and Edge he's all over the place. Now some are considering Hardy the current "hot commodity" in wrestling. Everywhere you look there's something about Matt Hardy. When his music played during Edge and Lita's "wedding ceremony" the crowd went absolutely nuts and he wasn't even there. The same concept would apply to Raven. He's been all over the Internet the past few years and if it was announced that he was signing with WWE Internet fans the world over would be shocked and many people who don't currently watch WWE programming would be tuning in. I guarantee if Raven was in WWE now and was booked right he would be insanely over.

[Loose Cannon]

Trust me and CyNick says this all the time. About 5% of wrestling fans are Internet fans. That's who we refer to as the "smart marks" today. The thing on Raw when Edge plated Matt's music, that joke went over about 95% of the fans in the audience that night. Notice the reaction when he said "I'll explain later." It was like :wtf: in the audience. The fans scream "we want Matt" because

1) they hear the "smart marks" doing it and it eventually catches on

2) they still see Matt as part of the storyline with Lita and Kane, so it's only natural they scream it. I bet half those fans don't even know Matt was fired.

You really obviously don't know the wrestling market. Read Melzer's Observer. He mentions the Internet fans and the Casual Fans all the time. And always mentions that Internet fans are such a small minority of the wrestling population, that Vince doesn't bother with what we think.

I bet anything most of the fans you see at Raw have no clue Raven is the World Champion in TNA. Even people on here didn't even know.

[Loose Cannon]

And Raven gets flamed all the time on here, so even the Internet fans don't think he's anything special.

[Watson]

You really obviously don't know the wrestling market. Read Melzer's Observer. He mentions the Internet fans and the Casual Fans all the time. And always mentions that Internet fans are such a small minority of the wrestling population, that Vince doesn't bother with what we think.

I bet anything most of the fans you see at Raw have no clue Raven is the World Champion in TNA. Even people on here didn't even know.
I don't know the wrestling market? LOL. Saying that I don't know the wrestling market is like saying you don't know who Randy Orton is. I've studied the business as long as I've been able to walk. I was a "smart mark" back when there was no Internet and the only source for wrestling news was Pro Wrestling Illustrated magazine (as well as others). I'm not just an "Internet fan" who bitches about the things that we should be seeing on RAW and Smackdown. I'm more than just a fan as I've worked matches and booked shows. I eat, sleep, and breath professional wrestling because I have long term plans in the wrestling business. I'm not just some smartass wrestling fan that thinks they know what's best for the business.

I realize Vince doesn't care what the Internet fans want or even the casual fans for that matter. But the fact is today's casual wrestling fan would respond more to Raven than the casual fans of the last 90s-early 2000s. Whether or not the casual WWE fans are aware of Raven's recent NWA World title win is irrelevant. The fact is if he were in WWE today he would be more over than he was the last time he was in WWE and he would be more over than some of WWE's current workers. Today's wrestling fans, casual or Internet, would appreciate Raven alot more than they did 5 or 6 years ago.

[Gouda]

Raven would NOT get over. Why should he? Last time WWE Fans saw him he was that guy who was on Heat alot.

If he comes back, so what? Will they care?

Most of them will probably have forgotten him.

If they pushed him and gave him mic time, than yes, he could EVENTUALLY get over.

EDIT- One more thing.... Related to the actual topic of Christian on Smackdown and not this arguemen. I marked out when Michael Cole called UPN the United Peeps Network.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I marked out when Michael Cole called UPN the United Peeps Network.

He did?!? :love:

U-P-N! U-P-N! U-P-N! U-P-N! U-P-N! U-P-N! U-P-N! U-P-N!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know the wrestling market? LOL. Saying that I don't know the wrestling market is like saying you don't know who Randy Orton is. I've studied the business as long as I've been able to walk. I was a "smart mark" back when there was no Internet and the only source for wrestling news was Pro Wrestling Illustrated magazine (as well as others). I'm not just an "Internet fan" who bitches about the things that we should be seeing on RAW and Smackdown. I'm more than just a fan as I've worked matches and booked shows. I eat, sleep, and breath professional wrestling because I have long term plans in the wrestling business. I'm not just some smartass wrestling fan that thinks they know what's best for the business.

I realize Vince doesn't care what the Internet fans want or even the casual fans for that matter. But the fact is today's casual wrestling fan would respond more to Raven than the casual fans of the last 90s-early 2000s. Whether or not the casual WWE fans are aware of Raven's recent NWA World title win is irrelevant. The fact is if he were in WWE today he would be more over than he was the last time he was in WWE and he would be more over than some of WWE's current workers. Today's wrestling fans, casual or Internet, would appreciate Raven alot more than they did 5 or 6 years ago.

I wouldn't test LC's knowledge of marketting. I'm pretty sure the guy's studied it (legitamately).

Anyway, when you get to the WWE (and I hope you do, because I wish you the best), it will be ironic if you're out there busting your ass day in and day out only to find some people on the internet talking about how you're "only average".

Watch any of the high profile matches Christian has been in and tell me he isn't making it an entertaining match. Watch the TLC 1, TLC 2, TLC 3, TLC 4, his Ladder Match with Rob Van Dam, his Ladder Match with Chris Jericho or his Triple Threat at Vengeance, and tell me that guy doesn't go above and beyond for us.

You mentioned Raven was never over in the WWE because he wasn't push right? Christian has never been pushed right and he is MASSIVELY over. The guy was more over than The Undertaker, Booker T or Chris Benoit on SmackDown! (I wish they didn't edit SmackDown!'s crowd reactions), and that is saying something.

I don't think the guy should be World Champion immediately, but by the end of the year, sure. He's got perfect mic skills (that's not an exaggeration). Everything he says comes out sounding perfectly, and his promo a few weeks ago with Jericho was top stuff. The only reason he would have been saying "Problem Solver" a lot (which I don't remembr happening) is probably because he was trying to help Tomko get over, which is something that probably sounds strange since we don't usually hear Triple H spout off names.

Christian's ring skills may no be perfect, but he's one of eht more solid performers on either brand, and he knows how to string together a match. I'm looking forward to him beating Booker T at The Great American Bash, and eventually moving on to Dave Batista.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't know the wrestling market? LOL. Saying that I don't know the wrestling market is like saying you don't know who Randy Orton is. I've studied the business as long as I've been able to walk. I was a "smart mark" back when there was no Internet and the only source for wrestling news was Pro Wrestling Illustrated magazine (as well as others). I'm not just an "Internet fan" who bitches about the things that we should be seeing on RAW and Smackdown. I'm more than just a fan as I've worked matches and booked shows. I eat, sleep, and breath professional wrestling because I have long term plans in the wrestling business. I'm not just some smartass wrestling fan that thinks they know what's best for the business.

I realize Vince doesn't care what the Internet fans want or even the casual fans for that matter. But the fact is today's casual wrestling fan would respond more to Raven than the casual fans of the last 90s-early 2000s. Whether or not the casual WWE fans are aware of Raven's recent NWA World title win is irrelevant. The fact is if he were in WWE today he would be more over than he was the last time he was in WWE and he would be more over than some of WWE's current workers. Today's wrestling fans, casual or Internet, would appreciate Raven alot more than they did 5 or 6 years ago.


I know your not a smart ass fan who bitches. I've seen you post. But if you've studies wrestling, you would know that the Internet fans are just a little piece of the pie of wrestling fans. A real little piece. That's why all those ridiculous shoots WCW tried to pull never worked. Because 95% of those fans didn't have a clue what was going on.

Alienoid said it perfectly. Why would anyone care about Raven when all he did was job and appear on Heat in the WWE? Even in TNA, they didn't have enough faith in Raven to make him a long-term champ right when he came in. Now they give him the belt when they aren't even on TV anymore.

Like I said, I like Raven. I loved him in WCW. He has a unique character and solid mic skills. But the character can only be taken so far in big companies like WCW and WWE.

[Loose Cannon]

By the way, this is a real good discussion.

[PureHatred]

Hard to take someone serious when they say Angle has limited mic skills.

That's all I'm saying.

[Nark Order]

Meh, his opinion.

I always thought Bret Hart had limited mic skills. My opinion.

[Kane Knight]

I know your not a smart ass fan who bitches. I've seen you post. But if you've studies wrestling, you would know that the Internet fans are just a little piece of the pie of wrestling fans. A real little piece. That's why all those ridiculous shoots WCW tried to pull never worked. Because 95% of those fans didn't have a clue what was going on.
And, of course, the net fanbase is the same now as it was during the WCW days.

It's not as though the internet is more prevalent, access is easier, more affordable, and possible in multiple locations.

It's not as though the numbers have changed for viewership either. As those are fixed, the percentage who are net fans is also fixed.

It's not as though most of the people who make this argument are using outdated " proof" and "facts" that are 5+ years old and hold no relavence to the current state of the market...

[Kane Knight]

Hard to take someone serious when they say Angle has limited mic skills.

That's all I'm saying.
He does.

He's limited to PWN!

[Loose Cannon]

And, of course, the net fanbase is the same now as it was during the WCW days.

It's not as though the internet is more prevalent, access is easier, more affordable, and possible in multiple locations.

It's not as though the numbers have changed for viewership either. As those are fixed, the percentage who are net fans is also fixed.

It's not as though most of the people who make this argument are using outdated " proof" and "facts" that are 5+ years old and hold no relavence to the current state of the market...

so do you agree with Prodigy that Raven will be mega-over in the WWE today because most fans are Internet fans?

I brought up the Matt Hardy/Edge/Lita storyline to make it "current" More then half of WWE's fanbase don't have a clue Edge cheated with Lita.

And yea more people use the Internet now, but that doesn't make them smart-makrs. Proof is right on this site in that thread linking to another site with a bunch of marks. Just read thier comments. Sure, they might read WWE.com all the time, but WWE.com is not a smark site.

yea, the net fanbase is bigger then 4 years ago, maybe, but it's still a small portion.

[Kane Knight]

so do you agree with Prodigy that Raven will be mega-over in the WWE today because most fans are Internet fans?
Nope.

I disagree with the use of SIGNIFICANTLY out-of-date facts which have not been updated or researched in a time period where internet access has gone way up and wrestling viewing has gone down.

I think Raven gets Hogan/Taker pops. I think that while those people are still synonymous with wrestling to the core fanbase, Raven is not.

I also think you are wrong to make dated statements in an attempt to prove him wrong.

I think a lot of things. One of which is that Raven has about as much business being in the ring right now as Hogan/Nash, and is only accepted by people ' round here because they're Raven fanboys, so it's okay for THIS has-been to dominate, and SURELY he would have the same name recognition.

[Savio]

Meh, his opinion.

I always thought Bret Hart had limited mic skills. My opinion.He sucks all around though

***HEEL HEAT***

Oh and its like 30% internet fans 70% casual posters

[V]

Trade Show for Christian :(

they spent SO MUCH time building a christian vs cena feud with all of his fucking promos for 4 months, and the royal rumble, just for a friggin match at a small payperview... and it wasn't even 1 on 1.

thought they were finally doing something right, Christian vs Cena, longterm feud would have been gold, they could have ended it at summerslam. But no, let me guess, Triple H got bored of the world title and now wants the WWE title?

[Just John]

He sucks all around though

***HEEL HEAT***

Oh and its like 30% internet fans 70%

[Just John]

forget it...

[AJHayes]

I don't know the wrestling market? LOL. Saying that I don't know the wrestling market is like saying you don't know who Randy Orton is. I've studied the business as long as I've been able to walk. I was a "smart mark" back when there was no Internet and the only source for wrestling news was Pro Wrestling Illustrated magazine (as well as others). I'm not just an "Internet fan" who bitches about the things that we should be seeing on RAW and Smackdown. I'm more than just a fan as I've worked matches and booked shows. I eat, sleep, and breath professional wrestling because I have long term plans in the wrestling business. I'm not just some smartass wrestling fan that thinks they know what's best for the business.

I realize Vince doesn't care what the Internet fans want or even the casual fans for that matter. But the fact is today's casual wrestling fan would respond more to Raven than the casual fans of the last 90s-early 2000s. Whether or not the casual WWE fans are aware of Raven's recent NWA World title win is irrelevant. The fact is if he were in WWE today he would be more over than he was the last time he was in WWE and he would be more over than some of WWE's current workers. Today's wrestling fans, casual or Internet, would appreciate Raven alot more than they did 5 or 6 years ago.

No need to cut a promo, kid. You're not going to change anyones mind. You get an A for effort though.

If you are, in fact, a promoter, and have worked shows, I have questions. "Who trained you? Where do you Promote? And how does a steady diet of pro wrestling treat your intestines? WHERES THE FIBER MAN!!??"

[Schoenauer]

thought they were finally doing something right, Christian vs Cena, longterm feud would have been gold, they could have ended it at summerslam. But no, let me guess, Triple H got bored of the world title and now wants the WWE title?

Triple H didn't want Christian on RAW because he was more deserving of the title than Triple H.

[Savio]

forget it...No its Casual posters

[Just John]

lol sorry I can't do the strikeout font thing...how do you do it??

[Nark Order]

Pathetic

[The One]

Here is what I don't understand about Prodigy's position.

You would stop watching wrestling if Christian won one of the World Titles, yet in the past 25 years we have seen some TERRIBLE World Champs carry the belt, but you didn't stop watching then. More then that we see perfectly average people rise to hold the World Title all the time. So what is it about Christian that you have so much distain for. For the love of god, I didn't watch wrestling when Hogan won his 6th WWE Title, but I came back after he lost it. So why the big poo-poo on Christian?

Also some other things struck me as odd. You point that Christian is only a draw to internet fans (I humblely disagree and think you only need to watch recent RAWs to hear his reactions are bigger then most of the rosters) but then you bring up a guy like Raven as an example of a great wrestler. Now don't get me wrong, I love Raven, absolutly LOVE him. But even I can admit his drawing pool is not very large and is contained more or less to the Internet/former ECW fans. Also you mentioned in the ring Christian isn't very impressive. Though I disagree entirly, I have to point out that Raven is certainly not in a position to give quality matches anymore. He just doesn't have alot more left in him. I mean go back and watch alot of his recent word, more specifically his NWA World Title win, he didn't do more then 6 or 7 moves, and the rest of the match he either laying on the ground around the ring out or in the cage, and actually most of his recent TNA and other matches have had him doing very little.

Oh and a real quick side note, Jeff Hardy isn't Charismatic? Come on now. I don't like the guy, but he has some hardcore charsima. Not at the level of some wrestling icons, that's for sure, but he is a very charismatic man.

You can dislike Christian, and I will be the first to say I don't think he is even in the top 25% for in ring work. But his promos are funny, and he as well is charismatic. You don't have to personally be enticed by someone's charisma to know they are charismatic. Hell I fucking hate Hogan, but it would be impossible for me NOT to at least admit that he has charisma.

[Nark Order]

You would stop watching wrestling if Christian won one of the World Titles, yet in the past 25 years we have seen some TERRIBLE World Champs carry the belt.
Prod, did you stop watching when Arquette and McMahon had their title reigns?

[Kane Knight]

Oh and a real quick side note, Jeff Hardy isn't Charismatic? Come on now. I don't like the guy, but he has some hardcore charsima. Not at the level of some wrestling icons, that's for sure, but he is a very charismatic man.
Most people equate Charisma with either 1) Likability or 2) Mic skills.

While both are viable ASPECTS fo charisma, the main definition of Charisma is:

A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.

While hardly a leader in any real sense, he has a pretty hardcore fanbase of druggies and 12 year old girls (The Southwood following) who LOVE him.

I think the reason he's called the " Charismatic Enigma" is that nobody can figure out WHAT THE FUCK these idiots see in him. ;)

[Kane Knight]

Prod, did you stop watching when Arquette and McMahon had their title reigns?
He didn't, but like me (and other true wrestling fans) he blocked it out.

[Watson]

He didn't, but like me (and other true wrestling fans) he blocked it out.
Exactly.

[PureHatred]

I think the reason he's called the " Charismatic Enigma" is that nobody can figure out WHAT THE FUCK these idiots see in him. ;)


:lol: :rofl:

[dalegendkilla]

A couple of weeks before he was drafted, Christian said that if he were traded he'd love to feud with Booker T. And after watching Smackdown, I assume that's what's gonna happen.

[Nark Order]

Exactly.
Now you're just making even less sense. Why in the hell would you just block those title reigns out of your mind but insist on never watching wrestling again if Xtian were to win the title?

[Shadow]

I think the reason he's called the " Charismatic Enigma" is that nobody can figure out WHAT THE FUCK these idiots see in him. ;)

I think it's the elf thing he's got going for him.

LOOK AT THE EARS MAN! LOOK AT THE FUCKING EARS!

[Watson]

Now you're just making even less sense. Why in the hell would you just block those title reigns out of your mind but insist on never watching wrestling again if Xtian were to win the title?
Because those title reigns weren't meant to be taken seriously. It was Russo's idea to put the WCW World title on David Arquette and that was all because of that stupid movie and Vince McMahon gave himself the World title because he didn't think people would expect it and he wanted to turn up the volume on his heel heat because he had a lack of major heels to feud with Austin during that time. I probably wouldn't quit watching WWE completely if Christian won the title but I would be majorly disappointed. I just don't think he would be taken seriously as World Champion because of the reasons I've mentioned a 100 times already. I just don't like him and I think giving him the World title would be ignorant as I think he would drop the ball. Hell I've heard some people say Chris Benoit dropped the ball so what makes you think Christian would be such a great world champ?

The champion, whether it be WWE or World Heavyweight, has a huge load to carry. If the company is not successful, ratings-wise, then they blame the Champion. If Christian were given a World title run and he dropped the ball and they took the title back off of him then I can almost guarantee from that point on he'd be de-pushed just like so many "ball-droppers" have in the past. Before you know it he'd be doing the job to Nunzio on one of the B-shows. Bottom line is, Christian just isn't World title material.

[James Steele]

Who the hell said Chris Benoit dropped the ball? I'll fucking kill them.

[Watson]

lol I've heard a few people here and there say it.

[Kane Knight]

I think it's the elf thing he's got going for him.

LOOK AT THE EARS MAN! LOOK AT THE FUCKING EARS!
Okay, no more pot for you for a while.

[Shadow]

No! You can't take my pot man! It's all I've got to make it through a day!

[Kane Knight]

No! You can't take my pot man! It's all I've got to make it through a day!
Do what I did. Start sucking dick. :p

[Shadow]

Do what I did. Start sucking dick. :p

But there's no dick around! I gotta have my pot.