I want everyone to remember something....

[PureHatred]

..no matter what happens over the next few weeks, no matter how many times he cuts a promo which seems even the tiniest bit entertaining, no matte rhow much heat he starts to get (even though he spent months getting zero rection form the crowd), no matter if this feud pays off with a match that is halfway decent (mainly because he'll get carried like his life depends on it )....

no matter what....

Chris Masters still sucks.

[Destor]

I've liked the guy from day one. (im just asking to catch shit)

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Agreed!

[Shadow]

..no matter what happens over the next few weeks, no matter how many times he cuts a promo which seems even the tiniest bit entertaining, no matte rhow much heat he starts to get (even though he spent months getting zero rection form the crowd), no matter if this feud pays off with a match that is halfway decent (mainly because he'll get carried like his life depends on it )....

no matter what....

Chris Masters still sucks.

Have I given rep to you yet? I should.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't despise Chris Masters, but they have done absolutely nothing with him since he debuted. They seem high on the guy, though, so it should be interesting to see where this goes.

[RGWhat316]

Masters does indeed still suck. He just doesn't really impress me too much.

[AJHayes]

Truer words have never been said.

[Corkscrewed]

I'll just watch HBK and tape a picture of Bret Hart on the TV over where Master's head will prolly be.

Actually, that'd be pretty entertaining.

[Schoenauer]

Masters = Lex Luger 2?

[ThruTheWire]

The Torture Rack > The Masterlock

[Joey Slugs]

I don't care if Masters ripped of his "roid suit" and revealed himself to be a 100% healthy Bret Hart... he will ALWAYS suck.

[High Impact v.W.o]

I don't care if Masters ripped of his "roid suit" and revealed himself to be a 100% healthy Owen Hart.
Now that would = ratings

[Sepholio]

Maybe HBK will break the masterlock finally. Either that, or someone unexpected comes in for the save, be it HHH, Hogan, or Bret even.

[Joey Slugs]

Now that would = ratings

Welcome to TPWW. Don't be a fucking dick with the Owen jokes asshole.

[High Impact v.W.o]

No matter how bad the joke is, it would still bring in good ratings.

oh and :wave:

[Joey Slugs]

No matter how bad the joke is, it would still bring in good ratings.

:nono:

[High Impact v.W.o]

It would

[Joey Slugs]

It would

There are no ratings for a dead man. So just cut it out already. Just bash Masters.

[High Impact v.W.o]

good plan

[What Would Kevin Do?]

There are no ratings for a dead man. So just cut it out already. Just bash Masters.

Not to be a dick, but I have to disagree... I think if someone everyone thought was dead for years showed up on live tv, the ratings would be huge.

[RP]

To this day Owen is still a better wrestler then half of the WWE roster.

[RP]

Not to be a dick, but I have to disagree... I think if someone everyone thought was dead for years showed up on live tv, the ratings would be huge.


Like everytime Jake Roberts makes an appearence somwhere.

[LK]

I like how the WWE clearly has no faith in him as he hasn't got one appearance on a PPV.

[Innovator]

Masters is nothing special. He's supposed to have a million dollar body yet guys on the next segment have as good a body as him

[Shaggy]

I dont hate the guy....but I dont really care for him either. He hasnt done much to impress me...besides breaking Richards nose...but that pissed me off more than making me impressed

[Loose Cannon]

the guy is a terrible promo. He has this goofy voice that makes him sound like a retard. Like some muscle bound retard from the gym.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You guys are pretty ridiculous, really. That promo with Masters and HBK last night was fairly excellent, and you can't say that it was ALL Shawn Michaels. Masters held his own in there, and honestly, he's never really been awful on the stick.

His character is a meathead hot shot who thinks he's the shit, though he's really proven nothing. I think it's a GREAT heel character, and I think he plays it well.

You guys almost criticize so much sometimes that it hinders your enjoyment of the product.

[Kane Knight]

the guy is a terrible promo. He has this goofy voice that makes him sound like a retard. Like some muscle bound retard from the gym.

More or less the problem.

"Derrrrr...I am the Masterpiece. I is errrr....Good-er than you is. Guuuuhhh...Watch me pose like a retarded shaved ape!"

[Kane Knight]

You guys are pretty ridiculous, really. That promo with Masters and HBK last night was fairly excellent, and you can't say that it was ALL Shawn Michaels.

Like Eddie can pull a 5 star match out of a bowl of pudding, Michaels can pull a 5 star promo out of primordial ooze.

In other words:

"you can't say that it was ALL Shawn Michaels."

It was ALL Shawn Michaels. Michaels could have been in the ring with any dumbass, poked fun at him, and it would have been GOLD.

I'm sorry you're such a fanboy, but honestly, Michaels pulled it off. Masters did not.

[PureHatred]

the guy is a terrible promo. He has this goofy voice that makes him sound like a retard. Like some muscle bound retard from the gym.

[PureHatred]

It was ALL Shawn Michaels. Michaels could have been in the ring with any dumbass, poked fun at him, and it would have been GOLD.

I'm sorry you're such a fanboy, but honestly, Michaels pulled it off. Masters did not.

[PureHatred]

If he's such a great heel character then why is it that he's been getting nothing but looks of boredom for weeks one end. The fans don't even boo, they just get up and take a piss break during his segments.

He was hand delivered one of the easiest heel gimmicks in all of wreslting: arrogant bully. He did nothing with it.

He was picking nobodies out of the audience and beating them up, and he was still getting no reaction.

He was taking potshots at whatever city Raw was being held in - again, easy heat - and still, nothing.

He has no promo skills whatsoever. And that's just the beginning: This isn't about not liking the product or just complaining for complaining's sake; and I'm usually a proponent of talent being in the eye of the beholder or whatever, but Masters just has no business whatsoever being in a ring on national TV. Even ignoring his danger to others, he's bad. Everything he does is stiff and awkward. He even made Shelton Benjamin look bad in their match. I've been to backyard wrestling matches where people were more fluid.

If you take away his look, Chris masters has absolutely nothing to offer as a performer. Nothing.

[Kane Knight]

If he's such a great heel character then why is it that he's been getting nothing but looks of boredom for weeks one end. The fans don't even boo, they just get up and take a piss break during his segments.

He was hand delivered one of the easiest heel gimmicks in all of wreslting: arrogant bully. He did nothing with it.

He was picking nobodies out of the audience and beating them up, and he was still getting no reaction.

He was taking potshots at whatever city Raw was being held in - again, easy heat - and still, nothing.

He has no promo skills whatsoever. And that's just the beginning: This isn't about not liking the product or just complaining for complaining's sake; and I'm usually a proponent of talent being in the eye of the beholder or whatever, but Masters just has no business whatsoever being in a ring on national TV. Even ignoring his danger to others, he's bad. Everything he does is stiff and awkward. He even made Shelton Benjamin look bad in their match. I've been to backyard wrestling matches where people were more fluid.

If you take away his look, Chris masters has absolutely nothing to offer as a performer. Nothing.

:love:

And yeah, complaining about Masters is not about how bad the product is. I'm pleased with the overall product, and Michaels just went up another 4 notches in my estimation for being able to pull out of that train wreck.

The whole put up or shut up is more for retards who complain that the product sucks, but support it. Not for people who have problems with a specific wrestler. Not everyoe in the WWE is good, and you don't have to like everyone to like the WWE. There are some REALLY shitty wrestlers...

...And Masters is the best example. He can't pull off arrogant, he can't get much of a crowd reaction most of the time (A tree stump could insult the likes of Hogan and Michaels and get a strong heel reaction, so no shock there). He's dead weight, and his greatest accomplishment so far in the WWE is being reckless enough to injurt other wrestlers.

So basically, he's Goldberg lite!

[Destor]

Injuring Stevie Richards got Stevie back on TV (even if was only for a little while.) So props to Masters.

[Loose Cannon]

You guys are pretty ridiculous, really. That promo with Masters and HBK last night was fairly excellent, and you can't say that it was ALL Shawn Michaels. Masters held his own in there, and honestly, he's never really been awful on the stick.

His character is a meathead hot shot who thinks he's the shit, though he's really proven nothing. I think it's a GREAT heel character, and I think he plays it well.

You guys almost criticize so much sometimes that it hinders your enjoyment of the product.

:wtf: I criticize crap. Even my freinds who aren't internet "smarks" or whatever turn the channel on this guy. He's still getting a less then warm reception (and I don't mean heel heat) from the crowd even after the push he has gotten. Nobody cares about him or his Masterlock Challenge. It's that simple. I mean Orton got the same push kind of, but at least Orton cut decent promos and put on decent matches in the beginning. This guy is just beyond digraceful.

[Loose Cannon]

I actually liked Masters for a little while, especially when he did that thing with Flair. I'm almost always a mark for the young arrogant heels. But this guy's preformance really killed my liking for him and I was trying hard to not hate him too.

[Anybody Thrilla]

That's cool, but Masters is still the man, so whatever.

[Evil Vito]

I don't care if Masters ripped of his "roid suit" and revealed himself to be a 100% healthy Bret Hart... he will ALWAYS suck.

:lol:

[Kane Knight]

That's cool, but Masters is still the man, so whatever.

Right. Sucking like a Hoover makes you the man.

gotcha.

[Destor]

Right. Sucking like a Hoover makes you the man.

gotcha.
If your a male whore then, yes it does.

[Kane Knight]

Actually, if you're sucking, you're the bitch. ;)

[Destor]

Damn, I guess im not the man:\'(

[Anybody Thrilla]

No, see, I don't think he sucks, that's the thing.

[Kane Knight]

And since you're his only fan, that holds a lot of weight. :)

[Destor]

Not that it makes a diffrence, Master hasnt been given the opportunity to shine (other than his three minits with Shelton), and im a fan until he does. Which should be soon considering the HBK angle theve got working.

[PureHatred]

No, see, I don't think he sucks, that's the thing.

That's fine. We're just wondering how you defend that position...what, exactly, do you see that makes you think he is such "a GREAT heel character?"

[PureHatred]

Not that it makes a diffrence, Master hasnt been given the opportunity to shine (other than his three minits with Shelton), and im a fan until he does. Which should be soon considering the HBK angle theve got working.

Ok..that's bullshit. This guy was given a segment on just about every single Raw, week after week, for the last few months. Jesus, you can even track his appearances using the fantasy stuff on WWE.com. He was getting more airtime than most of the roster.

As I said, if you are getting 10 minutes each week, doing something as generically straightforward heel as standing out there insulting the hometown and beating up on random nobodies, and you still can't get any sort of heel heat from the audience, you are not doing a good job.

[Destor]

You call beating up people from the crowd a good way to get over? I dont. And its not his fault he was booked beating nobodies. You want to get a guy over put him in there with someone the people care about. Like HBK.

[PureHatred]

OK...see, I'm of the mind that a brand new wrestler shoudl be booked to work his way up the ladder, at least a little. Have him start by working the crowd, and beating up on the under card, and once you can see fans reacting to him THEN you start feeding him to the upper midcard to better establish them. Even Goldberg's "monster push" took months of him beating up one the La Parka's and Lanny Lane's of the world.

My main gripe is that Mastes was given the golden gift of plent of airtime -not on Heat, mind you, on Raw - and an easy gimmick and he's fallen flat on his face. It's not like the crowd is undecided or split on Masters. They truly don't give a shit. So he's getting no reaction, he actually looks worse the more times he sets foot in the ring (his timing his awful and he can't sell to save his life ; his match with Shelton was the worst performance on raw since Jackie Gayda's debut ann no ...not hyperbole) and what happens? He's REWARDED for that by throwing him in a program with HBK.

I can only hope that this is a last ditch kind of thing; like if the Pistons were to start Darko for 40 games this year. A way to see once and for all, whether this guy is as bad as he reallly looks or whether there's something there worth salvaging.

To be honest, Masters at this point is worse than every single performer the WWE fired in the last few months, divas included. He's that bad.

[Destor]

OK...see, I'm of the mind that a brand new wrestler shoudl be booked to work his way up the ladder, at least a little. Have him start by working the crowd, and beating up on the under card, and once you can see fans reacting to him THEN you start feeding him to the upper midcard to better establish them. Even Goldberg's "monster push" took months of him beating up one the La Parka's and Lanny Lane's of the world.

My main gripe is that Mastes was given the golden gift of plent of airtime -not on Heat, mind you, on Raw - and an easy gimmick and he's fallen flat on his face. It's not like the crowd is undecided or split on Masters. They truly don't give a shit. So he's getting no reaction, he actually looks worse the more times he sets foot in the ring (his timing his awful and he can't sell to save his life ; his match with Shelton was the worst performance on raw since Jackie Gayda's debut ann no ...not hyperbole) and what happens? He's REWARDED for that by throwing him in a program with HBK.

I can only hope that this is a last ditch kind of thing; like if the Pistons were to start Darko for 40 games this year. A way to see once and for all, whether this guy is as bad as he reallly looks or whether there's something there worth salvaging.

To be honest, Masters at this point is worse than every single performer the WWE fired in the last few months, divas included. He's that bad.
I see where youre coming from. He should wrestle people lower in the card befor moving up, but random nobodies isnt gonna do anything, and I can proboly list the names of the guys hes has faced on the roster on one hand. Is the program with Micheal to soon? Hell yeah. If he does 15% of the work in this fued (cause we all no he will be carried) it will be a success and I will stay on the band wagon. Hes not in HBK's league, I know that. But what he could learn and gain from this fued could really send him in the right direction. Shawn could lite fire under the ass of Masters. We will see...

[Kane Knight]

Not that it makes a diffrence, Master hasnt been given the opportunity to shine (other than his three minits with Shelton), and im a fan until he does. Which should be soon considering the HBK angle theve got working.

You're a fan until he does something good?

Man, no wonder people are Tard slapping you. :D

[Kane Knight]

I see where youre coming from. He should wrestle people lower in the card befor moving up

No, he should learn to wrestle or cut a promo or get a fan reaction.

[Destor]

You're a fan until he does something good?

Man, no wonder people are Tard slapping you. :D
No, im a fan until hes givin the opportunity to do something good, and then doesnt. Pardon me for not hating a guy who has only wrestled "fans." He hasnt done anything to earn hatred. YET

[Shadow]

....yeah you're a tard. Who gave you green rep?

[Kane Knight]

Stevie Richards is a fan?

Anyway, he's been crap in the ring. He doesn't DESERVE to wrestle anyone above the "fan" level. He can't cut a promo. He's been handed one of the EASIEST gimmicks in the world, and had it spoonfed to him, and he STILL can't get fan reaction. He's already dropped the ball.

[Kane Knight]

Ok..that's bullshit. This guy was given a segment on just about every single Raw, week after week, for the last few months. Jesus, you can even track his appearances using the fantasy stuff on WWE.com. He was getting more airtime than most of the roster.

And that's why the "no chance to shine" argument is pretty retarded.

[ThruTheWire]

Stevie Richards is a fan?

Anyway, he's been crap in the ring. He doesn't DESERVE to wrestle anyone above the "fan" level. He can't cut a promo. He's been handed one of the EASIEST gimmicks in the world, and had it spoonfed to him, and he STILL can't get fan reaction. He's already dropped the ball.

What's so easy about his gimmick? There's really nothing to it, he come's out and put's people in a lock, the segment sucks and they book him in it week after week.
If there was more to him then he could get a reaction, but he isin't booked in any possible way to evolve his character.

[Destor]

What's so easy about his gimmick? There's really nothing to it, he come's out and put's people in a lock, the segment sucks and they book him in it week after week.
If there was more to him then he could get a reaction, but he isin't booked in any possible way to evolve his character.
Exactly, I blame the amazing ability of the writing team. Its like I was saying, beating up fans isnt going go far. And Stevie Richards aint much better. Once Shawn gets him over he will be able to take that steam on into another fued and who knows. A years time he COULD be something to brag about.

[Shadow]

Exactly, I blame the amazing ability of the writing team. Its like I was saying, beating up fans isnt going go far. And Stevie Richards aint much better. Once Shawn gets him over he will be able to take that steam on into another fued and who knows. A years time he COULD be something to brag about.

And in a year's time the WWE could have fired his ass. You're forgetting that the WWE isn't trying to build stars anymore. They want the flavor of the month to go on and on and on. If a guy can't get over immediatly nowadays...he's as good as fired.

[ThruTheWire]

That's what were saying Shadow.. Masters has potential... He's just being fucked like 75% of new stars, courtesy of the writing team.

[Destor]

OK, now where on the same page.

[Shadow]

It's not just the writing team folks. That's an easy blame and rather cowardly to just blame the writing team. Sometimes the gimmick doesn't fit the wrestler.

But nowadays it's compleatly right to say the writing team is fucking over the new guys so....hehehe.

[Destor]

It's not just the writing team folks. That's an easy blame and rather cowardly to just blame the writing team. Sometimes the gimmick doesn't fit the wrestler.

But nowadays it's compleatly right to say the writing team is fucking over the new guys so....hehehe.
Look, its clear your just trying to make the noobs look bad instead of making a valid point so im just going to move on.

[Shadow]

Look, its clear your just trying to make the noobs look bad instead of making a valid point so im just going to move on.

No you guys did a good job of that all by yourselves. But keep thinking you're cool.

[Kane Knight]

What's so easy about his gimmick? There's really nothing to it,

Why ask a question, then answer yourself?

[ThruTheWire]

Why ask a question, then answer yourself?

I meant as in getting over.

[Kane Knight]

I meant as in getting over.

Seems to have worked for THOUSANDS of wrestlers, but okay, we'll ignore all the prior success with the gimmick and let the fault lay with the gimmick, instead of the guy failing to pull it off.

I mean, it's not like even Jindrak managed to get more over with this gimmick a short time ago, but that's okay. Bad gimmick. Bad writers. Bad fans. This is everyone's fault but his.

[ThruTheWire]

Stevie Richards is a fan?

Anyway, he's been crap in the ring. He doesn't DESERVE to wrestle anyone above the "fan" level. He can't cut a promo. He's been handed one of the EASIEST gimmicks in the world, and had it spoonfed to him, and he STILL can't get fan reaction. He's already dropped the ball.

You act as if you were in Masters position, then you would instantly get over.

It's easy to act like he's real shit, and say that he's fucking up so bad, meanwhile he is in the WWE and he is on RAW every week, he hasn't exactly dropped the ball. He just hasn't had a chance to get his hands on it yet.

[Kane Knight]

I meant as in getting over.

Seems to have worked for THOUSANDS of wrestlers, but okay, we'll ignore all the prior success with the gimmick and let the fault lay with the gimmick, instead of the guy failing to pull it off.

I mean, it's not like even Jindrak managed to get more over with this gimmick a short time ago, but that's okay. Bad gimmick. Bad writers. Bad fans. This is everyone's fault but his.

[ThruTheWire]

Seems to have worked for THOUSANDS of wrestlers,

mm hmm.. THOUSANDS......

gg double post.

[Kane Knight]

You act as if you were in Masters position, then you would instantly get over.

I wouldn't. Not with my build or public speaking skills.

:lol:

I'm acting as though this is a simple gimmick to do, one that is straightforward and traditional and has been used successfully numerous times.

So don't try and pretend I'm saying something I'm not. No gimmick's magic, it can't turn shit into gold. And that is why MAsters has failed.

[Destor]

Seems to have worked for THOUSANDS of wrestlers
Who has WORKED for? you already admitted Jindrak didnt pull it off.

[Kane Knight]

mm hmm.. THOUSANDS......

1) It's called hyperbole (Get Destro to look it up, he's good with the dictionary)

2) IT's probably true, though not within the WWE. There are TONS of these promotions, wrestling is over a century old, and this is one of the STAPLE heel types. A Hundred years with tons of promotions, including numerous countries, and it's been largely successful, which is how it trickled into the mainstream WWF/E and similar TV feds.

So yeah.

[ThruTheWire]

I wouldn't. Not with my build or public speaking skills.

:lol:

I'm acting as though this is a simple gimmick to do, one that is straightforward and traditional and has been used successfully numerous times.

So don't try and pretend I'm saying something I'm not. No gimmick's magic, it can't turn shit into gold. And that is why MAsters has failed.

What the fuck are you on? He hasn't even be around that long, not every star comes in day one with the GOLDEN GIMMICK. Give it some time, you talk all this shit while he's beginning a fued with one of the bigger stars in WWE history.

Only the shittiest wrestlers in the WORLD get to step into the ring with Shawn Michaels right?

[Destor]

Im begining to see why wrestlers hate the internet...

[Kane Knight]

What the fuck are you on? He hasn't even be around that long, not every star comes in day one with the GOLDEN GIMMICK.

Errr, yeah. Please try and stay with us.

He. DOES. Have. A. Golden. Gimmick.

Large amounts of production on his entrance. LOTS of TV time. More than many of the regular stars. Lots of exposure.

Only the shittiest wrestlers in the WORLD get to step into the ring with Shawn Michaels right?

Now who would be stupid enough to say that? Oh right, it's a strawman argument, useful only if you ignore the fact that it goes the other way as well. Just getting in the ring with Michaels doesn't mean you're good. Working a program with him doesn't make you good. All it means is that someone's pushing to continue his exposure.

[Kane Knight]

Im begining to see why wrestlers hate the internet...

Because people apply reasoning, and choose who they like, not who they're told to like?

Yeah, I can see it too.

[ThruTheWire]

Errr, yeah. Please try and stay with us.

He. DOES. Have. A. Golden. Gimmick.

Large amounts of production on his entrance. LOTS of TV time. More than many of the regular stars. Lots of exposure.



Now who would be stupid enough to say that? Oh right, it's a strawman argument, useful only if you ignore the fact that it goes the other way as well. Just getting in the ring with Michaels doesn't mean you're good. Working a program with him doesn't make you good. All it means is that someone's pushing to continue his exposure.


He's never been in the ring with anyone above Low/Midcard level. Except when the Big Show PUNKED HIM OUT. The path has not been paved for him, this week's raw is his first chance in the ring with an ACTUAL name. Stevie Richards is a piece of shit jobber who has not won a memorable match in years. That doesn't even count.

[Shadow]

Im begining to see why wrestlers hate the internet...

I have a solution for ya...

GET OFF THE DAMN MESSAGE BOARD IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT!

[Destor]

Because people apply reasoning, and choose who they like, not who they're told to like?

Yeah, I can see it too.
No, because there flacid and unwilling to say anything positive.

[Destor]

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le
Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw
: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")
- hy·per·bo·list /-list/ noun
:D
Just like my watermellon refrence.

[ThruTheWire]

I have a solution for ya...

GET OFF THE DAMN MESSAGE BOARD IF YOU CAN'T STAND THE HEAT!

Man shut up,
And you know what, get off Kane Knights dick. Every time he post's you are right there to suck his ass with a follow-up.

[PureHatred]

I'm willing to say something posiitive about the wrestlers who deserve it. hell' I'll practically gush over Kurt Angle. Masters doesn't deserve any credit.

[Kane Knight]

He's never been in the ring with anyone above Low/Midcard level. Except when the Big Show PUNKED HIM OUT. The path has not been paved for him, this week's raw is his first chance in the ring with an ACTUAL name. Stevie Richards is a piece of shit jobber who has not won a memorable match in years. That doesn't even count.

But you don't need to be up against a big name to get yourself over with the crowd. Fuck's sake, use some common sense. Who cares if he hasn't been in the ring with a main eventer? What difference does it make if he can't cut a promo against a dark matcher or a main eventer?

[Kane Knight]

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le
Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw
: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")
- hy·per·bo·list /-list/ noun
:D
Just like my watermellon refrence.

Well, except that your watermelon was off the mark, but yes.

[ThruTheWire]

But you don't need to be up against a big name to get yourself over with the crowd. Fuck's sake, use some common sense. Who cares if he hasn't been in the ring with a main eventer? What difference does it make if he can't cut a promo against a dark matcher or a main eventer?

It make's a big difference when you are in the ring with complete shit, and no one is there to see you. It also makes a difference not having a fued to get people even remotely interested in you.

[Kane Knight]

No, because there flacid and unwilling to say anything positive.

Dude, get the blinders off. A thread panning Masters proves that they won't say anything positive? Look at the "3 things the WWE is doing right" thread, you semi literate bastard, before you go for the theatrics.

Masters is shit, that doesn't prove nobody says positive things on the internet. Get over yourself.

[Destor]

Well, except that your watermelon was off the mark, but yes.
It was hyperbole, no mater what you think, and im black so it dont mater.

[Shadow]

Man shut up,
And you know what, get off Kane Knights dick. Every time he post's you are right there to suck his ass with a follow-up.

Bite me dough boy. If that's what I have to do to keep my self-esteme up, I'll let HHH assrape me.

[Destor]

Dude, get the blinders off. A thread panning Masters proves that they won't say anything positive? Look at the "3 things the WWE is doing right" thread, you semi literate bastard, before you go for the theatrics.

Masters is shit, that doesn't prove nobody says positive things on the internet. Get over yourself.
1 thread out of 201 pages of em. And the dude post that oppend with something similar to to much negativity.

[Kane Knight]

It make's a big difference when you are in the ring with complete shit, and no one is there to see you. It also makes a difference not having a fued to get people even remotely interested in you.

Which would be great if he could get a fan reaction.

BTW, PLENTY of people are there to see him. They just get bored. He's been given a ton of TV time, you can't claim no one's there to see him. They just don't care because he's shit.

The local talent are there to make him look strong, it's not that hard to figure out. They're also failing, but not because it's a bad idea. It's worked pretty well with other people. I don't see why pushing the guy to the moon will make him any better, except maybe someone will carry his weak ass to a decent match.

[ThruTheWire]

Dude, get the blinders off. A thread panning Masters proves that they won't say anything positive? Look at the "3 things the WWE is doing right" thread, you semi literate bastard, before you go for the theatrics.

Masters is shit, that doesn't prove nobody says positive things on the internet. Get over yourself.

Here's a situation... Batista debuts as DEACON BATISTA. Wow he was fucking SHIT! He got FUCKED by a shitty gimmick and shitty and few opponents. The guy is HUGE (like Masters), doesnt get to beat alot of big names and wow.. he still wasn't over. He comes to RAW and get's THE ANIMAL gimmick where he is basically allowed to destroy every good wrestler on the roster with very little selling. People eat that shit right up.

Master's on the other hand, get's to wrestle fans... Stevie richards, Val venis....
and not achieve even very decent victories. He is being fucked.

[Destor]

Like I said this HBK fued could be the begining for Masters.

[Kane Knight]

1 thread out of 201 pages of em. And the dude post that oppend with something similar to to much negativity.

Too much, not only.

And one thread by name.

Pay attention, man. You said they can't say anything good. Plenty of people have praised Raw this week, praised Summerslam, and praised a lot of things about the WWE.

But let's ignore than, and drama Queen our way into how everyone is incapable of syaing something positive.

IT's not about Masters, or whatever's up your craw, it's about how there's nothing positive out there!!!!!11111oneoneoneone!

[Destor]

And I never got an example of someone this gimmick worked for...

[Kane Knight]

It was hyperbole, no mater what you think, and im black so it dont mater.

IT was hyperbole, it was just also an improper use, since the idea is to exaggerate for EFFECT. It's hard to get effect when you're giving an improper example.

[ThruTheWire]

reply to me KK, or... Are you completely fucking wrong? Changing the subject .. Weak.

[Destor]

Someones getting spitefu:kiss: l

[Shadow]

The both of you are getting spiteful.

[Destor]

I'm willing to say something posiitive about the wrestlers who deserve it. hell' I'll practically gush over Kurt Angle. Masters doesn't deserve any credit.
Yeah but who wont mark out for Angle....:D

[Kane Knight]

And I never got an example of someone this gimmick worked for...

Oh? Where did you ask for one? Was that before or after I mentioned that even Jindrak got a better response with that (He's not the best example, for sure, but one has been given...If he's not enough, I understand, but I HAVE made mention of the gimick being used before)? I'm sorry, in the constant bickering with you two 'tards, I may have missed a few posts here and there.

Doesn't the fact that this is a repackaged gimmick, reused for a new superstar (And that they thought so much of it, they've used it TWICE of late) indicate that it might have been successful? Or are you saying that the WWE rehashes flopped gimmicks?

[Destor]

The both of you are getting spiteful.
Your right. To late to care though.

[Kane Knight]

reply to me KK, or... Are you completely fucking wrong? Changing the subject .. Weak.

I'm sorry, but I can only type so fast, and I've got more than the one tard to keep up with.

[ThruTheWire]

...

[Destor]

Oh? Where did you ask for one? Was that before or after I mentioned that even Jindrak got a better response with that (He's not the best example, for sure, but one has been given...If he's not enough, I understand, but I HAVE made mention of the gimick being used before)? I'm sorry, in the constant bickering with you two 'tards, I may have missed a few posts here and there.

Doesn't the fact that this is a repackaged gimmick, reused for a new superstar (And that they thought so much of it, they've used it TWICE of late) indicate that it might have been successful? Or are you saying that the WWE rehashes flopped gimmicks?
You mentioned earlier it didnt work for Jindrak, and im still waiting for someone its WORKED for. I dont see Jindrak in the main event.

[ThruTheWire]

You mentioned earlier it didnt work for Jindrak, and im still waiting for someone its WORKED for. I dont see Jindrak in the main event.

haha yeah, where are these THOUSANDS of Top Notch stars who have gotten over through making fans/low midcarders tap out.

[Destor]

haha yeah, where are these THOUSANDS of Top Notch stars who have gotten over through making fans/low midcarders tap out.
:rofl:

[ThruTheWire]

I'm sorry, but I can only type so fast, and I've got more than the one tard to keep up with.


Shoulden't take alot to keep up with "tard's" jackass.

[Kane Knight]

Here's a situation... Batista debuts as DEACON BATISTA. Wow he was fucking SHIT! He got FUCKED by a shitty gimmick and shitty and few opponents. The guy is HUGE (like Masters), doesnt get to beat alot of big names and wow.. he still wasn't over. He comes to RAW and get's THE ANIMAL gimmick where he is basically allowed to destroy every good wrestler on the roster with very little selling. People eat that shit right up.

Master's on the other hand, get's to wrestle fans... Stevie richards, Val venis....
and not achieve even very decent victories. He is being fucked.

The guy also has a better look (HE doesn't make me laugh when he comes to the ring), though currently his dancing is laughable. The guy also makes his moves look worth a fuck (His Spinebuster actually makes the move look valid). Masters has come down to the ring, attempting to look like a "Masterpiece" while chewing gum, his moves are sloppy.

I mean honestly, the best comparison you can draw between the two is that they're big. Batista didn't magically become good because of his new gimmick, nor was he bad because of his last one. A gimmick can hurt or help a wrestler, but when you have nothing to work with, a good gimmick can't save you.

Repackaging someone doesn't make them any better. In fact, it didn't sstop BAtista from getting BOOED when he started talking, or after he won the championship. So I'd say your comparison is a weak one. Especially since, instead of immediately being thrust up to work with a main eventer, he...You know...Was someone's sidekick, and actually developed and progressed.

But Hell, everything else is valid...Except for most of it, which I have just argued against. Oh, and the fact that Batista's popularity seems to be waning now that the novelty is wearing off. But yeah, other than that, brilliant way of putting me in my place.

[Kane Knight]

Shoulden't take alot to keep up with "tard's" jackass.

On the contrary. You don't seem to put any thought or effort into what you write.

Therefore, you can post shit much faster than someone who does. Not to mention there's two of you trying to put the same level of "thought" into your arguments.

And every time I answer one of you fuckwits, the other starts in on how I'm ignoring the other. I'd accuse you of being lovers, but the thought of either of your procreating is scary beyond all reason.

[Kane Knight]

haha yeah, where are these THOUSANDS of Top Notch stars who have gotten over through making fans/low midcarders tap out.

Except I didn't say top notch stars, but if you've got to MAKE UP An argument to feel like a winner, you probably need the "victory."

[ThruTheWire]

The guy also has a better look

Better look after he joined evolution with TRIPLE H and RIC FLAIR.

He was originally walking around with a COLLECTION BOX, yeah ok your so right.

[Kane Knight]

Who has WORKED for? you already admitted Jindrak didnt pull it off.

No, I sarcastically implied that it's not like Jindrak got more over (Which he did) with this gimmick. I then went on to blame everyone but Masters, so I thought I was crystal clear that it WAS sarcasm.

My bad. I assumed that you'd realise a statement in which I say it's everyone's fault but Masters would be false, and therefore a sarcastic or ironic response.

[ThruTheWire]

Oh and to top it off, followed around Reverand D-von dudley , and I bet its Batista's fault he wasnt over then.

[Kane Knight]

Better look after he joined evolution with TRIPLE H and RIC FLAIR.

He was originally walking around with a COLLECTION BOX, yeah ok your so right.

I mean physique, fuckwit.

Batista in this gimmick would get over better due to in ring performance and actual look.

[Kane Knight]

Nice copout, ThruTheWire. Get shown up for being a moron, try and pull a weak humour deflection. :)

[ThruTheWire]

I felt it was unnecessary. Since you still don't even have an argument.

[Destor]

The guy also has a better look (HE doesn't make me laugh when he comes to the ring), though currently his dancing is laughable. The guy also makes his moves look worth a fuck (His Spinebuster actually makes the move look valid). Masters has come down to the ring, attempting to look like a "Masterpiece" while chewing gum, his moves are sloppy.

I mean honestly, the best comparison you can draw between the two is that they're big. Batista didn't magically become good because of his new gimmick, nor was he bad because of his last one. A gimmick can hurt or help a wrestler, but when you have nothing to work with, a good gimmick can't save you.

Repackaging someone doesn't make them any better. In fact, it didn't sstop BAtista from getting BOOED when he started talking, or after he won the championship. So I'd say your comparison is a weak one. Especially since, instead of immediately being thrust up to work with a main eventer, he...You know...Was someone's sidekick, and actually developed and progressed.

But Hell, everything else is valid...Except for most of it, which I have just argued against. Oh, and the fact that Batista's popularity seems to be waning now that the novelty is wearing off. But yeah, other than that, brilliant way of putting me in my place.
1) Batista moves look like shit, except his p-bomb
2) whats wrong with chewing gum? Its an easy way to look cocky. Jericho does it all the time.
3) Batista became majically because he wrestled top stars for no reason, and beat them down. Hell Im still pissed they put him over Kane when he had zero fan reaction
4) Repackaging has helped alot of people, ring master wasnt workin well if I remember right. Neither was Izzak Yakem.
5) Who has this gimmick WORKED for?

[PureHatred]

You mentioned earlier it didnt work for Jindrak, and im still waiting for someone its WORKED for. I dont see Jindrak in the main event.

Hi. Wrestlers who got over by berating/humiliating and/or challenging the fans:

--Hercules Hernandez. Masters is doing the exact same gimmick, except he doesn't have Bobby Heenan cutitng promos for him
--Big Joh Studd and the Body Slam/Arm Wrestling Challenge
--Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase Didn't even get in a ring for his first three months in the WWF.
--Heel Old school Ken Patera
--Kurt Angle Three I's. Fought a ton of mid-carders early on
--E & C. Again, just workign the crowd. Not really a debut, but the photo opportunity stuff is what put them in the upper midcard scene

I could actually go on, but I think thats a good sample size of people who were given the same kind of time and opportunity and eventually ended up as headliners.

[Shadow]

Oh wow...you're soooooooo intellegent TTW. Seriouslly. I would've never thought someone could be as funny as you.

Wait....a lemer with a brain tumor is funnier than you so...

[Destor]

Hi. Wrestlers who got over by berating/humiliating and/or challenging the fans:

--Hercules Hernandez. Masters is doing the exact same gimmick, except he doesn't have Bobby Heenan cutitng promos for him
--Big Joh Studd and the Body Slam/Arm Wrestling Challenge
--Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase Didn't even get in a ring for his first three months in the WWF.
--Heel Old school Ken Patera
--Kurt Angle Three I's. Fought a ton of mid-carders early on
--E & C. Again, just workign the crowd. Not really a debut, but the photo opportunity stuff is what put them in the upper midcard scene

I could actually go on, but I think thats a good sample size of people who were given the same kind of time and opportunity and eventually ended up as headliners.
Good point, but you use the word eventually. Isnt it a little early to be saying that Masters will never be good???

[PureHatred]

Also, I can't honestly believe that anyone can say Masters hasn't been givena chance.

His introduction i treated as an event and all three announcers are practically doing cartwheels to get him over.

Once again, I also want to point out that he's been given a ton of TV time (you can verify on the wwe fantasy stat tracker): he's appeared on 10 of the last 12 Raw's. He's gotten the "victory" on 7 of those appearances. (fanasy monster BTW). Ask guys like Tajiri or Steven Richards how much difference appearing on Raw rather than heat can make in terms of your career, your exposre and your paycheck.

He just went over Shelton Benjamin. They never even had Big Show lay a finger on him. And now HBK...the writers are doing everything humanly possible to make him look good.

I know that osme fans are willing to cut down anything on TV . I know that. i was one of the ones bitching at people complaining about SS. But this is just not the case. Master shas been given chance after chance to rile up the crowd, to get some kind of reaction, and has been put in the ring with some decent workers. And nothing is happening.

This isn't a smark thing, The live audience is bored to tears by him. And they're the ones these kinds of characters usually get heat from first. And whatever his gimmick is or isn't, he's shit in thering. Shit. Utter, utter shit. You can't blame the writers or the bookers for that.

He can't cut a promo. He can't wrestle. He is doing nothing except taking up TV time that could otherwise go to someone else on the roster hwo deserves it.

[Destor]

He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.

[PureHatred]

Good point, but you use the word eventually. Isnt it a little early to be saying that Masters will never be good???

Not really. At the very least, he should be sent back to OVW. Like I said, the HBK thing could prove that he has potential, but it could also show that hes totally unsalvageable and then the WWE will wasted months on a kid thats got nothing going for him when people like Charlie Haas and Frankie Kazarian were never given an tenth of the chance this meathead has.

[Destor]

Not really. At the very least, he should be sent back to OVW. Like I said, the HBK thing could prove that he has potential, but it could also show that hes totally unsalvageable and then the WWE will wasted months on a kid thats got nothing going for him when people like Charlie Haas and Frankie Kazarian were never given an tenth of the chance this meathead has.
I agree. If the HBK angle doesnt work send him away. This fued will decide if hes worthless or not.

[Shadow]

He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.

Time isn't something he's got unfortunetly. The shelf life of Masters is less than half a year at the rate he's going.

[Kane Knight]

Much respect to PH for coming up with a couple I had forgotten.

[PureHatred]

He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.

I don't think it premature. i think its totally undeserved. And not because he's green. But because he has no actual talent. He doesn't have the charisma of an Orton or the in-ring talent of a Lesnar. He's big and muscular. That's it.

He will probably spend the next eight months or so as an upper midcarder, even , god help me, main eventing here and there. Every match will be atrocious. And by next year people will be begging to see him fired. If we're lucky, the WWE will get the hint and he'll spend the rest of his career after that as a heelish midcard jobber like Rene Dupree (another young guy with more talent than Masters) or William Regal.

[PureHatred]

I agree. If the HBK angle doesnt work send him away. This fued will decide if hes worthless or not.

OK..that we agree on.

[Destor]

Time isn't something he's got unfortunetly. The shelf life of Masters is less than half a year at the rate he's going.
Maybe, and if this HBK deal falls though then you all will have been right. But were all definatly gonna find what he made of real soon. 3 minits with Shelton aside, this is his first time with someone whos worth a shit. And if he blows it I have no problem saying I was a wrong mutha fucka.

[Kane Knight]

He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.

Premature push?

Time will prove you right?

Come on now, you're banking on a horse who has shown nothing. What grounds beyond fanboyism and a desperate attempt to cling to a prior statement do you have to go on?

[Kane Knight]

Maybe, and if this HBK deal falls though then you all will have been right. But were all definatly gonna find what he made of real soon. 3 minits with Shelton aside, this is his first time with someone whos worth a shit. And if he blows it I have no problem saying I was a wrong mutha fucka.

Sooo...

Why the rabid defense then?

What difference does it make if we think he's utter shit, since you have no problem with being wrong?

[Destor]

Premature push?

Time will prove you right?

Come on now, you're banking on a horse who has shown nothing. What grounds beyond fanboyism and a desperate attempt to cling to a prior statement do you have to go on?
There little fan boyish about it. The guy hasnt done a damn thing wrong. I refuse to hate someone who hasnt earned it. Its that simple. So he broke Stevie's nose, this aint hop-scotch. As far as his moves looking bad, there no worse than Cena's. And time WILL tell, so the aurguments futile.

[PureHatred]

There little fan boyish about it. The guy hasnt done a damn thing wrong. I refuse to hate someone who hasnt earned it. Its that simple. So he broke Stevie's nose, this aint hop-scotch. As far as his moves looking bad, there no worse than Cena's. And time WILL tell, so the aurguments futile.

I honestly don't think I've been in the least bit fanboyish. I backed up every single point I made. Shit, I even gave you historical references and staistics.

TPWW is not really a fan-boy board. *Most* of the regulars here are sarcastic dickheads, but they are hard-thinking know-their-shit dickheads. And if they don't like someone it always for something more valid than "HE SUX CUZ H BROKD STEVES NOZ!!11!1 roxorz!!

[Destor]

I honestly don't think I've been in the least bit fanboyish. I backed up every single point I made. Shit, I even gave you historical references and staistics.

TPWW is not really a fan-boy board. *Most* of the regulars here are sarcastic dickheads, but they are hard-thinking know-their-shit dickheads. And if they don't like someone it always for something more valid than "HE SUX CUZ H BROKD STEVES NOZ!!11!1 roxorz!!
KK called me a fanboy, I was responing to him, I wasnt calling you a fanboy, brother.

[Kane Knight]

There little fan boyish about it. The guy hasnt done a damn thing wrong. I refuse to hate someone who hasnt earned it. Its that simple. So he broke Stevie's nose, this aint hop-scotch. As far as his moves looking bad, there no worse than Cena's. And time WILL tell, so the aurguments futile.
I'll type this slow so you can understand.

Not having done anything wrong yet does not mean he's destined for greatness, which is what you're asserting. You can't cite anything that he's done worthy of fan attention? You justify this all in the blind faith that not having "dropped the ball," Which you lose on because you insist he lacks exposure (Or was that the other one of you guys), is good enough to equal something positive. Except the odds are running strong that he'll be an also-ran if anything other than shit.

You insist he's got potential. Not having screwed up yet =/= potential. And I'm being generous enough to ignore his sloppy wrestling, lack of mic skills, and lack of crowd reaction in terms of "screwing up" for the sake of this statement.

By the way, Cena IS better than him. HE's been watered down since he's been pushed to the main event, but he's got the chops. However, when pushed to the main event, a wrestler ALWAYS suffers a loss of moves, especially higher risk moves (But not limited to that). However, he's relying on charisma and actual fan reactions a la most main eventers. These are things that Cena had at a stage in his career comparable to Masters current location. These are things that establish someone, not dead crowds. Not even wrestling skills, necessarily (IF this was true, I'd never praise JBL).

You're making assertions you can't seem to back up in terms of what he's got, and ignoring that he's gotten better and more exposure than most superstars on TV.

So what is there? Tell me, instead of saying "I'm a fan because he hasn't screwed up," tell me a real reason. Being a fan implies you think positive things, but you can't seem to give me a positive thing, only a lack of a negative (Essentially a breakeven point that he hasn't dropped the ball, which ignores a LOT of important factors). And since you can't seem to successfully put even THAT forth, I can't see what's worth being a fan for, or being so sure that he'll go places.

And if that is all you can assert to support your assertions, then yes, that is very much fanboyism.

[Kane Knight]

Sorry I repeated myself essentially, but I thought it might get through in the second or third time I wrote it.

[Destor]

I'll type this slow so you can understand.

Not having done anything wrong yet does not mean he's destined for greatness, which is what you're asserting. You can't cite anything that he's done worthy of fan attention? You justify this all in the blind faith that not having "dropped the ball," Which you lose on because you insist he lacks exposure (Or was that the other one of you guys), is good enough to equal something positive. Except the odds are running strong that he'll be an also-ran if anything other than shit.

You insist he's got potential. Not having screwed up yet =/= potential. And I'm being generous enough to ignore his sloppy wrestling, lack of mic skills, and lack of crowd reaction in terms of "screwing up" for the sake of this statement.

By the way, Cena IS better than him. HE's been watered down since he's been pushed to the main event, but he's got the chops. However, when pushed to the main event, a wrestler ALWAYS suffers a loss of moves, especially higher risk moves (But not limited to that). However, he's relying on charisma and actual fan reactions a la most main eventers. These are things that Cena had at a stage in his career comparable to Masters current location. These are things that establish someone, not dead crowds. Not even wrestling skills, necessarily (IF this was true, I'd never praise JBL).

You're making assertions you can't seem to back up in terms of what he's got, and ignoring that he's gotten better and more exposure than most superstars on TV.

So what is there? Tell me, instead of saying "I'm a fan because he hasn't screwed up," tell me a real reason. Being a fan implies you think positive things, but you can't seem to give me a positive thing, only a lack of a negative (Essentially a breakeven point that he hasn't dropped the ball, which ignores a LOT of important factors). And since you can't seem to successfully put even THAT forth, I can't see what's worth being a fan for, or being so sure that he'll go places.
Well, thats pretty much it, I will be on his side until hes gives me a reason not to, which may be soon. He cuts adaquit promos for lower mid-card (better than I evr heard Paul London, or even Shelton Bejamin, god there awful), im not exspecting gold. His matches are indeed sub-par but the in the WWE that doesnt really matter. I cant comprehend hating a guy for no reason, soon I may have one, but I dont. He is not in the Main event, just because he gets a match with HBK doesnt make him a main eventer. And no, not screwing up yet is not potential, its a reason not to hate the guy, when he does screw up, thats a diffrent story.

[Shadow]

Then you'll forever be known as...a retard.

[Destor]

Sorry I wasnt rased to hate with out a cause Mr.Bush.

[Kane Knight]

See, again, you don't really say why you think he's on to better things, you just go back to his lack of sucking.

And cutting a better promo than a guy who not only appears on velocity primarily, but who got as prestigious as defending a title on Velocity? Yeah, that takes a lot. Benjamin's cut some good promos and some shit ones, but he's not supposed to be a wordsmith. He's clearly supposed to be a great physical performer. Cutting a promo better than a guy booked as the best athelete in the WWE and a Cruiserweight? If that's the best you can do for bragging rights...

Seriously, since he's actually cutting REGULAR promos on Raw, he SHOULD be better than Paul London, who is not. And he should be way better. Unfortunately, he's not. Since he's booked as physically dominating, he shouldn't look like a fucking worthless oaf. Unfortunately, the writers can't write him talent or mic skills.

[Kane Knight]

Sorry I wasnt rased to hate with out a cause Mr.Bush.

Well, I mean, there are reasons to hate him. Hence his fan reaction.

But is praising without a reason any less retarded? Again, you've failed to justify....

[Destor]

Well, I mean, there are reasons to hate him. Hence his fan reaction.

But is praising without a reason any less retarded? Again, you've failed to justify....
Did I praise him? Or did I say from the get go, its to early to hate? Either way all any seems to be doing is force an idea on me. Any how, you give respect until given a reason not, thats how life should be lived. You shouldnt hae to earn respect, you should have to loose it.

[PureHatred]

Then you'll forever be known as...a retard.

Awwww......the irony.

I remember not tool ong ago going through several of these epic discussions with a certain Msrrs. Shadow and NCHIGHFLYER over a certain pair of faggy brothers from North Cacka-lacky.

Memories.

[Kane Knight]

He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.

Sounds like you are praising him, in that he has potential...

Oh wait, I'm sorry, that's devastating to your argument that all you said was "give him a chance." I'd better not mention it.

[Shadow]

Awwww......the irony.

I remember not tool ong ago going through several of these epic discussions with a certain Msrrs. Shadow and NCHIGHFLYER over a certain pair of faggy brothers from North Cacka-lacky.

Memories.

Oh shut the fuck up you asshole!

[Kane Knight]

Did I praise him? Or did I say from the get go, its to early to hate? Either way all any seems to be doing is force an idea on me. Any how, you give respect until given a reason not, thats how life should be lived. You shouldnt hae to earn respect, you should have to loose it.

He's lost it in my eyes, by constantly being lackluster.

That's a reason, though you'll come up with some cop out here too. I mean, you probably still cling to the fact that more TV time than most superstars not named Triple H=underpushed. So I can't argue with you there, because you won't listen (To me or the crowd reactions). When you are a performer and you fail to illicit a reaction from the crowd, you have failed.

And yes, if you're saying you're a fan, if you're saying he's got potential, you are praising him. These are not statements of "wait and see." Meanwhile, we are giving you actual definitives of our problems. Well, I suppose that's a fanboy for ya.

[Kane Knight]

Awwww......the irony.

I remember not tool ong ago going through several of these epic discussions with a certain Msrrs. Shadow and NCHIGHFLYER over a certain pair of faggy brothers from North Cacka-lacky.

Memories.

To be fair, at least Jeff Hardy could get over in the ring, shit or not.

And they (The HArdy BoyZ) did it without needing to be in a main event feud.

[Destor]

Sounds like you are praising him, in that he has potential...

Oh wait, I'm sorry, that's devastating to your argument that all you said was "give him a chance." I'd better not mention it.
IS that praisal? In my experience praisal is something positive. Where as potential is more nuetral in the sense it implies that in the future he would or could be praise worthy. My arguement has not swayed: isn't it a little early to say he hasnt useful bone in his body. I dont think you guys are giving him the chance. This is practically his first big match with his first worth a shit oppenent. Can you say a guy sux before hes been tested? And just to be an asshole.....

Main Entry: 1praise
Pronunciation: 'prAz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): praised; prais·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French preisier to prize, praise, from Late Latin pretiare to prize, from Latin pretium price -- more at PRICE
transitive senses
1 : to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections
intransitive senses : to express praise
- prais·er noun
:D

[Destor]

To be fair, at least Jeff Hardy could get over in the ring, shit or not.

And they (The HArdy BoyZ) did it without needing to be in a main event feud.
Thats not fair. Jeff got over with high flying and a 5* ladder match. Hardcore and highflying are cheap pops. Any one who can take a beating can get over, Foley proved that (but thats a compleatly diffrent argument)

[Shadow]

Thats not fair. Jeff got over with high flying and a 5* ladder match. Hardcore and highflying are cheap pops. Any one who can take a beating can get over, Foley proved that (but thats a compleatly diffrent argument)

But it got him over. You can't deny that.

And who exactly put on that 5* ladder match? Certianlly wasn't the Undertaker now was it?

[Destor]

But it got him over. You can't deny that.

And who exactly put on that 5* ladder match? Certianlly wasn't the Undertaker now was it?
Your right there, he was an over son of a bitch. And Take had nothin to do with it, it was all jeff. He could of had that match 3 sack of potatoes and it would have been a 4*. Id say a time he 2nd most over in the company. But I aint seen Masters in a ladder match! LOL God that would suck.....

[Destor]

I can see it now.......
Masters hits the Masterlock. His opponents down. He climbs the ladder HE GOT IT! 15 second ladder match folks, that was amzing.:lol:

[PureHatred]

Oh shut the fuck up you asshole!
:lol: :kiss:

[PureHatred]

Just pointing out that even if someone has a real fan-on for a wrestler that not many others care for, if they make arguments and are at least willing to try to back them up, eventually they're accepted. We all find fresher meat to fight with.

[Kane Knight]

IS that praisal? In my experience praisal is something positive. Where as potential is more nuetral in the sense it implies that in the future he would or could be praise worthy. My arguement has not swayed: isn't it a little early to say he hasnt useful bone in his body. I dont think you guys are giving him the chance. This is practically his first big match with his first worth a shit oppenent. Can you say a guy sux before hes been tested? And just to be an asshole.....

Main Entry: 1praise
Pronunciation: 'prAz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): praised; prais·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French preisier to prize, praise, from Late Latin pretiare to prize, from Latin pretium price -- more at PRICE
transitive senses
1 : to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections
intransitive senses : to express praise
- prais·er noun
:D

He has been tested. I know you'll keep pretending he hasn't.

Also,

praise http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dpraise) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (prhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifz)
n.
Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
Archaic. A reason for praise; merit. But nice dose of intellectual dishonesty, trying to pretend that my usage was inappropriate. :kiss:

[Destor]

He has been tested. I know you'll keep pretending he hasn't.

Also,

praise http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dpraise) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (prhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/amacr.gifz)
n.
Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
Archaic. A reason for praise; merit. But nice dose of intellectual dishonesty, trying to pretend that my usage was inappropriate. :kiss:
Ill give you the def. (apperintly my site sux) but who the fuck tested him?

[Pepsi Man]

Stevie Richards is a fan?

Anyway, he's been crap in the ring. He doesn't DESERVE to wrestle anyone above the "fan" level. He can't cut a promo. He's been handed one of the EASIEST gimmicks in the world, and had it spoonfed to him, and he STILL can't get fan reaction. He's already dropped the ball.
His parodies and constant playing of WWF/E video games would almost qualify Stevie as a fain.:shifty:

[Kane Knight]

His parodies and constant playing of WWF/E video games would almost qualify Stevie as a fain.:shifty:

Badum bum crash!

[Skippord]

Man shut up,
And you know what, get off Kane Knights dick. Every time he post's you are right there to suck his ass with a follow-up.

Get off masters dick

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't think I really need to give a REASON, per say, to be a fan of Chris Masters. It's not like I'm going to change anybody's mind anyway. I just don't understand what some of you guys seem to think is so bad about his mic work. And in ring? He hasn't even had a singles match over ten minutes, so he can't be judged too harshly.

I mean, I don't get it. When Batista started off, he wasn't THAT different from Masters. Just more intimidating. People didn't seem to hate him so much. So what's the difference? He didn't injure Steven Richards? I feel bad for Stevie for having his face busted, but injuries happen all the time in wrestling. Your favorite wrestler has probably tagged somebody a little stiff, so what?

It just seems that your beef with this guy is with his premature push, but on the other hand, he's at least something NEW. You keep saying that he's 'fallen flat on his face', and I just don't see that. I'd at least see how this program with Michaels plays out, ya know?

[Destor]

I don't think I really need to give a REASON, per say, to be a fan of Chris Masters. It's not like I'm going to change anybody's mind anyway. I just don't understand what some of you guys seem to think is so bad about his mic work. And in ring? He hasn't even had a singles match over ten minutes, so he can't be judged too harshly.

I mean, I don't get it. When Batista started off, he wasn't THAT different from Masters. Just more intimidating. People didn't seem to hate him so much. So what's the difference? He didn't injure Steven Richards? I feel bad for Stevie for having his face busted, but injuries happen all the time in wrestling. Your favorite wrestler has probably tagged somebody a little stiff, so what?

It just seems that your beef with this guy is with his premature push, but on the other hand, he's at least something NEW. You keep saying that he's 'fallen flat on his face', and I just don't see that. I'd at least see how this program with Michaels plays out, ya know?
You said it better than I could, thats for damn sure.

[Kane Knight]

I don't think I really need to give a REASON, per say, to be a fan of Chris Masters.

And if you were the one who was insisting he was going places, this might be about you. I know your reason. You get a chubby when you see a muscle-bound retard.

But when someone positively asserts that he's going places....

[Anybody Thrilla]

But when someone positively asserts that he's going places....

Honestly, I didn't read most of the thread. That was in response to something from way back on the first page. I just didn't use the "QUOTE" feature, is all.

[Kane Knight]

You said it better than I could, thats for damn sure.

Mostly because he's asserting he's a fan because he likes the guy, while you're hiding behind "I'm a fan because he hasn't screwed up yet."

AT has a reason. Whether I agree with him or not, he has a reason. You don't. :)

[Kane Knight]

Honestly, I didn't read most of the thread. That was in response to something from way back on the first page. I just didn't use the "QUOTE" feature, is all.

By the way, he injured Richards TWICE.

I know you like to downplay the nature of this, but his wrestling is very sloppy EVEN ignoring his injuries of Richards. Yes, accidents happen. Yes, some people get hurt. But there's a difference between Benoit or Angle injuring someone (They're clearly safe wrestlers) and Goldberg and Masters injuring someone (They're clearly not.

[Anybody Thrilla]

By the way, he injured Richards TWICE.

I know you like to downplay the nature of this, but his wrestling is very sloppy EVEN ignoring his injuries of Richards. Yes, accidents happen. Yes, some people get hurt. But there's a difference between Benoit or Angle injuring someone (They're clearly safe wrestlers) and Goldberg and Masters injuring someone (They're clearly not.

Think about THIS though.

Benoit and Angle are primarily TECHNICAL wrestlers. Masters is a brawler. Would you at least say that one is more likely to be injured in a staged slugfest than a wristlock gone awry?

[Destor]

You can call me a fan all day, and say im "hiding." Yea, terrified that im a fan of Masters. Your just a cry baby internet fan. You have a problem saying that he might be good. I do not have a problem saying he might be bad. Whos the bigger man?

[Destor]

By the way, he injured Richards TWICE.

I know you like to downplay the nature of this, but his wrestling is very sloppy EVEN ignoring his injuries of Richards. Yes, accidents happen. Yes, some people get hurt. But there's a difference between Benoit or Angle injuring someone (They're clearly safe wrestlers) and Goldberg and Masters injuring someone (They're clearly not.
Its STEVIE F"N RICHARDS! I wouldnt be surprised if he was told to do, and is getting a push because of it.

[Kane Knight]

Think about THIS though.

Benoit and Angle are primarily TECHNICAL wrestlers. Masters is a brawler. Would you at least say that one is more likely to be injured in a staged slugfest than a wristlock gone awry?

And how many brawlers regularly injure people?

Hogan? Bradshaw (When he's not raping people backstage)? Bikertaker? Foley? Oh wait, they're all luchadores.

[Pepsi Man]

Think about THIS though.

Benoit and Angle are primarily TECHNICAL wrestlers. Masters is a brawler. Would you at least say that one is more likely to be injured in a staged slugfest than a wristlock gone awry?
Yup. Rolling German Suplexes, Moonsaults, Swandive Headbutts, and Overhead Belly-to-Belly Suplexes are the safest moves in all of pro wrestling. Let's not forget that Chris Benoit's not opposed to using the occasional Tombstone Piledriver.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And how many brawlers regularly injure people?

Hogan? Bradshaw (When he's not raping people backstage)? Bikertaker? Foley? Oh wait, they're all luchadores.

It has happened twice in an unfortunate coincedence. I wouldn't call that regularly. And still, he's pretty new to the game. Given the experience, I think he can work out the kinks in working stiff without injuring.

It all goes back to giving him a chance. I will agree that his push is premature, but it seems that people are just looking for reasons to hate him because of it. For a brawler, I honestly don't think he's bad in the ring. He makes it look believeable, even when he's not actually smashing somebody's face in.

[Kane Knight]

You can call me a fan all day, and say im "hiding." Yea, terrified that im a fan of Masters. Your just a cry baby internet fan. You have a problem saying that he might be good. I do not have a problem saying he might be bad. Whos the bigger man?

If he hadn't been such a bad performer, I would have No problem saying he was good (See also, John Bradshaw Layfield). This is part of yoru little net fan conpiracy you cling to when someone says something you don't like.

The problem is, he's bad in ring. He's bad on the mic. He gets no fan reaction. The only problem I have in saying he might be good is that I'm not a fan of LYING. I know you're desperately trying to show me up and prove you are the bigger man, but if you have to make up lies about me, you've already lost.

Yo've also lied about your statement (Oh, I've never praised him, I only said give him a chance despite actually saying he had potential and thus was going places) and stance, you've failed to come up with one positive reason to think there's hope in him, and now you're trying to pretend that this is some great conspiracy on my end. Sorry, but you might want to wait until your balls drop before you try entering a pissing contest.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yup. Rolling German Suplexes, Moonsaults, Swandive Headbutts, and Overhead Belly-to-Belly Suplexes are the safest moves in all of pro wrestling. Let's not forget that Chris Benoit's not opposed to using the occasional Tombstone Piledriver.

Let it be known that I am not trying to say that Chris Masters is a better worker than Chris Benoit.

[Pepsi Man]

Let it be known that I am not trying to say that Chris Masters is a better worker than Chris Benoit.
You're trying to say something to the effect of, "Of course Chris Benoit or Kurt Angle wouldn't injure anyone, because their most dangerous move is a wristlock."

[Kane Knight]

Also, destor, consider this. When he was given a non jobber, when he extended the Masterlock challenge to the back, he Broke Richards' face. They then went back to dark matchers. Doesn't that indicate something?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Maybe I'm a bit naive in the fact that I trust the WWE to entertain me. They have done so for a vast majority of my life. I made the decision a long time ago that I will not stop watching wrestling as long as it is on TV.

Sure there have been hits and misses, but overall, I think it's been hits. I choose to remain optimistic about their decisions. So while I can be called a "Masters Fanboy", I'd say that I'm just a WWE Fanatic. No matter what shit they throw in my face, I'll take it. It's in my heart.

I dunno.

[Kane Knight]

It has happened twice in an unfortunate coincedence. I wouldn't call that regularly. And still, he's pretty new to the game. Given the experience, I think he can work out the kinks in working stiff without injuring.

It all goes back to giving him a chance. I will agree that his push is premature, but it seems that people are just looking for reasons to hate him because of it. For a brawler, I honestly don't think he's bad in the ring. He makes it look believeable, even when he's not actually smashing somebody's face in.

When Richards is getting injured more frequently than he did in ECW, something's amiss. And if he didn't look sloppy in the ring, I could chalk it up to coincidence. but he looks like a bucket of shit in the ring, and so I can't help but feel lack of ring ability+injuiries=/=coincidence.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You're trying to say something to the effect of, "Of course Chris Benoit or Kurt Angle wouldn't injure anyone, because their most dangerous move is a wristlock."

I was comparing techincal wrestling to brawling. I only said the names Benoit and Angle because those were the names mentioned. Benoit and Angle are standouts of techincal wrestling, but take your run of the mill technical wrestler, and...well, I think you see what I mean.

[Pepsi Man]

Maybe I'm a bit naive in the fact that I trust the WWE to entertain me. They have done so for a vast majority of my life. I made the decision a long time ago that I will not stop watching wrestling as long as it is on TV.

Sure there have been hits and misses, but overall, I think it's been hits. I choose to remain optimistic about their decisions. So while I can be called a "Masters Fanboy", I'd say that I'm just a WWE Fanatic. No matter what shit they throw in my face, I'll take it. It's in my heart.

I dunno.
Remember The Goon?

[Kane Knight]

Maybe I'm a bit naive in the fact that I trust the WWE to entertain me. They have done so for a vast majority of my life. I made the decision a long time ago that I will not stop watching wrestling as long as it is on TV.

Sure there have been hits and misses, but overall, I think it's been hits. I choose to remain optimistic about their decisions. So while I can be called a "Masters Fanboy", I'd say that I'm just a WWE Fanatic. No matter what shit they throw in my face, I'll take it. It's in my heart.

I dunno.

That's horribly sad.

I mean, I was seriously respecting your right to an opinion until you said that.

Not the part about trusting the WWE to entertain you, but the extent to which you will go to let them entertain you.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Remember The Goon?

I do. And while he wasn't entertaining at the time, he's good for a laugh today.

Those ice skate boots were pretty money.

[Kane Knight]

I was comparing techincal wrestling to brawling. I only said the names Benoit and Angle because those were the names mentioned. Benoit and Angle are standouts of techincal wrestling, but take your run of the mill technical wrestler, and...well, I think you see what I mean.

So how about the other names I mentioned?

[Pepsi Man]

I was comparing techincal wrestling to brawling. I only said the names Benoit and Angle because those were the names mentioned. Benoit and Angle are standouts of techincal wrestling, but take your run of the mill technical wrestler, and...well, I think you see what I mean.
And they still perform a wide variety of dangerous maneuvers, if allowed to and not told all they can do is punch, kick, and use an armbar. I think with the way the WWE is lately, they should ban Masters from using any offense. It's just not worth the risk.

[Anybody Thrilla]

That's horribly sad.

I mean, I was seriously respecting your right to an opinion until you said that.

Not the part about trusting the WWE to entertain you, but the extent to which you will go to let them entertain you.

It's like a drug, man. And at 35 bucks a month, that's not a bad price.

[Anybody Thrilla]

So how about the other names I mentioned?

What names? Again, I haven't read all of this thread.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And they still perform a wide variety of dangerous maneuvers, if allowed to and not told all they can do is punch, kick, and use an armbar. I think with the way the WWE is lately, they should ban Masters from using any offense. It's just not worth the risk.

Fine, I'm wrong. I can deal. Good job.

[Pepsi Man]

What names? Again, I haven't read all of this thread.
And how many brawlers regularly injure people?

Hogan? Bradshaw (When he's not raping people backstage)? Bikertaker? Foley? Oh wait, they're all luchadores.

[Kane Knight]

And they still perform a wide variety of dangerous maneuvers, if allowed to and not told all they can do is punch, kick, and use an armbar. I think with the way the WWE is lately, they should ban Masters from using any offense. It's just not worth the risk.

Yeah, Benoit is capable of running with some pretty dangerous offense with little risk to his partner.

Masters' offense IS dangerous offense.

[Pepsi Man]

Fine, I'm wrong. I can deal. Good job.
It's alright, holmes. We all have bad judgment at one time or another.

[Anybody Thrilla]

He made it clear that he considered them luchadores. :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

What names? Again, I haven't read all of this thread.

You.

Replied.

To.

The Post.

In which.

I.

Name.

Names.

Not only didn't you read the entire thread, but you didn't read the whole psot to which you replied?

[Pepsi Man]

You.

Replied.

To.

The Post.

In which.

I.

Name.

Names.

Not only didn't you read the entire thread, but you didn't read the whole psot to which you replied?
They sure don't make forum posters like they used to, huh?

[Anybody Thrilla]

No, I thought he meant you said something about other techincal wrestlers. I remember that post, and I already said I was wrong. What else would you like?

[Pepsi Man]

No, I thought he meant you said something about other techincal wrestlers. I remember that post, and I already said I was wrong. What else would you like?
Can I get a gold medal and a million dollars, tax free? Hey, you asked.

[Anybody Thrilla]

No. I can not provide that.

Easy enough.

[Destor]

If he hadn't been such a bad performer, I would have No problem saying he was good (See also, John Bradshaw Layfield). This is part of yoru little net fan conpiracy you cling to when someone says something you don't like.

The problem is, he's bad in ring. He's bad on the mic. He gets no fan reaction. The only problem I have in saying he might be good is that I'm not a fan of LYING. I know you're desperately trying to show me up and prove you are the bigger man, but if you have to make up lies about me, you've already lost.

Yo've also lied about your statement (Oh, I've never praised him, I only said give him a chance despite actually saying he had potential and thus was going places) and stance, you've failed to come up with one positive reason to think there's hope in him, and now you're trying to pretend that this is some great conspiracy on my end. Sorry, but you might want to wait until your balls drop before you try entering a pissing contest.
This isnt about me coming up with reasons to like him, thats reatrded. I fail to see why you have to have a reason not to hate some one. Dont you have to earn hatred? Theres a mentality that your clearly void of, "give respect untiul given a reason to take it away."
You have made this is about you being right. You havent given me a reason to dislike the guy, other than your opinion thats hes sloppy and he cuts bad proms. I dont see you doing any better. I spent all day aurguing with in an effort to to get you to say, well MAYBE.
I dont want to change your opinion, I just want to you to consider mine as I have yours. Your like aurguing with a brick wall. And since your so hell bent on me giving something positive, Hes got a prety neat full nelson.:roll:
Explain to me (please!) why do I have to have reason to not dislike the guy? It doesnt make sense? Is this an internet thing? Your not allowed to like a guy you just met? Im not sittn here glorifying Masters, im simply saying that hes not as bad as you all say (which is an opinion by the way) and that you should give him a chance. Which if you already hate him there is no way that you have. If this HBK fued doesnt pan out (considering HBK can carry Hogan) I will admit he sux, but its just to soon.

[ThruTheWire]

Fine, I'm wrong. I can deal. Good job.

Why bitch out like that? You were actually making good points...

[ThruTheWire]

.but its just to soon.


yes. too soon.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why bitch out like that? You were actually making good points...

Not "bitching out" about Masters in general. Just admitting that I made a faulty point when I said that brawling is more dangerous than techincal wrestling. Fact is, it's ALL dangerous.

I still think Chris Masters is the man.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Furthermore, it's painfully obvious that I'm not going to change Kane Knight's mind about Chris Masters. And that's fine. But if anybody else read any of that and thought I made good points, as you did, then maybe somebody else will change their mind. Or at least consider him differently.

[Destor]

Why bitch out like that? You were actually making good points...
Thats being a man, you relize your aurguing some one belives there right and your willing to say there right. And all the while you know the truth.

[Destor]

Alls I want is for some one to consider it, but alls I hear is im right and thats the only way it can be.

[Pepsi Man]

Thats being a man, you relize your aurguing some one belives there right and your willing to say there right. And all the while you know the truth.
Actually, THAT'S a pussy move. I give props to Anybody Thrilla for conceding that particular point, though.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Yeah. Just that point. Still a Masters fan, I am.

[Destor]

Actually, THAT'S a pussy move. I give props to Anybody Thrilla for conceding that particular point, though.
You know nothing of civility.

[Kane Knight]

I fail to see why you have to have a reason not to hate some one.
'Cept we've gievn reasons, you're just dodging them and making exuses. You insist we're afraid to been wrong, when we've given foundation and you have not. When you're arguing a standpoint, you need to provide some sort of affirmative case. You may try and make this into something more, but reality encroaches on these grander arguments you try and make every time this simple point is brought up.

[Kane Knight]

Why bitch out like that? You were actually making good points...

No, he's smart for not fighting a losing argument.

Why be a dumb bitch and continue to argue that which you yourself know you're wrong on?

AT only conceded a single point anyway.

[Destor]

And your points were........?

[Kane Knight]

Not "bitching out" about Masters in general. Just admitting that I made a faulty point when I said that brawling is more dangerous than techincal wrestling. Fact is, it's ALL dangerous.

I still think Chris Masters is the man.

Now this I don't get.

"The man" is an affirmative statement of greatness. That seems a bit much for MAsters.

[Destor]

Why be a dumb bitch and continue to argue that which you yourself know you're wrong on?
Youd be the first person id ask to answer that. Not that your wrong. You just keep going on a topic were both sides are clearly unswaying.

[Kane Knight]

Alls I want is for some one to consider it, but alls I hear is im right and thats the only way it can be.

The problem is, you're asking us to consider something that's been considered and discounted, because of all the points mentioned against him. Alls you want is to praise him, and then pretend that alls you're doing is asking for a fair shake.

You're also crying foul because you feel that we're not giving him a fair shake, yet we've judged him on all the same points we judge other wrestlers upon. :)

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm a whore with "the man". I say everything is "the man". Chris Masters is the man. Reuben sandwiches are the man. Sleeping in is the man. That sort of deal.

[Kane Knight]

Youd be the first person id ask to answer that. Not that your wrong. You just keep going on a topic were both sides are clearly unswaying.

And you're doing what?

Oh yeah, you're still in here arguing too.

While you claim that nobody's going to change sides.

See, the problem here, is that you just tried to make a faulty analogy again. You're comparing someone conceding when they've found themselves to be wrong on a point to someone conceding because the other side refuses to be wrong.

I have not problem with continuing to debate anyone here who believes otherwise. As long as someone has an opposing side, I have no problem in continuing this (Or any other thread). If you have a problem, then leave, and don't return. Or at least stop replying to me, since it takes two sides to argue.

I don't much care if you have a problem with me continuing to argue the point. IT's a DISCUSSION board. The purpose is discussion and conversation. If you don't like that, then you should probably log out.

[Destor]

The problem is, you're asking us to consider something that's been considered and discounted, because of all the points mentioned against him. Alls you want is to praise him, and then pretend that alls you're doing is asking for a fair shake.

You're also crying foul because you feel that we're not giving him a fair shake, yet we've judged him on all the same points we judge other wrestlers upon. :)
Oh.......so where your reason to hate him? And I still dont see me prasing, aside from the fact that I dont hate the guy. What copmplement have I given him? (except for that beutiful full nelson:lol: )
You've dicounted the fact that you shouldnt hate some one who has done no great wrong? Because thats the only reason why I have nothing against him.

[Kane Knight]

I'm a whore with "the man". I say everything is "the man". Chris Masters is the man. Reuben sandwiches are the man. Sleeping in is the man. That sort of deal.

Well, that makes a bit more sense.

It is becoming horribly overused on this board. When Triple A called the cumstain on his keyboard "the Man," I shoulda known it was over.

[Destor]

And you're doing what?

Oh yeah, you're still in here arguing too.

While you claim that nobody's going to change sides.

See, the problem here, is that you just tried to make a faulty analogy again. You're comparing someone conceding when they've found themselves to be wrong on a point to someone conceding because the other side refuses to be wrong.

I have not problem with continuing to debate anyone here who believes otherwise. As long as someone has an opposing side, I have no problem in continuing this (Or any other thread). If you have a problem, then leave, and don't return. Or at least stop replying to me, since it takes two sides to argue.

I don't much care if you have a problem with me continuing to argue the point. IT's a DISCUSSION board. The purpose is discussion and conversation. If you don't like that, then you should probably log out.
I admit that I am a hypocrit in that regard.

[PureHatred]

This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.

I'm pretty sure it will be destr018 and AT. I'm sure they feel the same in reverse.

[Destor]

This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.

I agree, compleatly. And maybe I will feel like any idiot, maybe I wont. I stop carring yesterday.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Nooo, I've said in other threads, if not in here, that I think he does good mic work. That bit with Michaels was good, not JUST because of Michaels, but because of Masters as well. Also, in the ring, as a brawler, I think he's pretty decent.

I see Masters as the jock type bully dude in high school that everybody hated, but he thought he was the shit. I knew a dude that Masters reminds me of so much it's ridiculous. I really do think he's doing good work right now. Moreso on the mic than in the ring, yes, but good work regardless.

[PureHatred]

Also, again I resent the fact that the people who don't like Masters are being made out to just be blindly negative. I go out of my way to point out stuff that I like about the WWE. And like AT, I've been a fan for life and that's not changing. But I've also watched enough wrestling to be able to have na educated opinion on whether or not a young guy hsa the potential to be a great performer someday.

I just don't see it in Masters. Period.

[Destor]

destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

Thats been my only complaint. 6 pages later I feel like someone was listening to me.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Here, let's try it this way...

Who do you think does better mic work...The Hurricane or Chris Masters?

[Destor]

Here, let's try it this way...

Who do you think does better mic work...The Hurricane or Chris Masters?
If I answer it will only start another 6 page argument.... I plead the 5th.

[PureHatred]

Nooo, I've said in other threads, if not in here, that I think he does good mic work. That bit with Michaels was good, not JUST because of Michaels, but because of Masters as well. Also, in the ring, as a brawler, I think he's pretty decent.

Ok....well, you're wrong. Or your in the tiniest minority in the history of wrestling fandom. Because basically nobody thinks he's doing a good job on the mic which is why he gets no reaction. And he's terrible in the ring. His timing is off, he can't sell, and his basic punches and kicks look soft; when Shelton gave him that dragon leg whip he stumbled fell forward, and Shelton was basically on his back dragging Masters over because he couldn't do that bump right.

I can at least see someone arguing potential...but right now...:nono:

And yeah...I'll say Hurricane is about as bad as Masters on the mic...but how is comparing lousy to lousy really proving anything.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Shelton's been botching a lot in the past couple months himself, but he's still awesome, ya?

[Destor]

Shelton's been botching a lot in the past couple months himself, but he's still awesome, ya?
da, da (and hes worse on the mic then anyone on the roster, in my opinion) but he is da' man

[The Gooch]

I see Masters as the jock type bully dude in high school that everybody hated, but he thought he was the shit. I knew a dude that Masters reminds me of so much it's ridiculous.

You know that gimmick might actually be what is needed. Actually my girlfriend sort of brought that up this past Monday. She basically said that his body looks amazing but that he is too ugly to be in the role that he is in. Also that he looks like that goofy dumb jock that took advantage of people in highshool. Playing him off as a bully makes sense.

I think you may be onto something AT.

Going back a few threads. A couple other people with a similar type of gimmick as Masters.

Dino Bravo
Rick Rude (hell all he did was get women to take off his towel)

[Anybody Thrilla]

It's like Simon Dean, with an average body, saying he has all the keys to fitness. Good heel material, IMO.

[Kane Knight]

This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.

I'm pretty sure it will be destr018 and AT. I'm sure they feel the same in reverse.

What the argument really boils down to is one of what we see in Masters. People are free to see potential; I will keep arguing that I do not. I find the ground that he's not been given the chance to be ridiculous--The HArdyz, for example, got over with nothing more than exposure. The notion that you need a main event feud to realise your potential is asinine to me. The Hardyz come to mind simply due to the Shadow issue. It's not like Jeff only got over once he had a match with the Undertaker. Or Matt only got over after...Wait...What HAS he done? ;) Some people have come in booked strong (LEsnar, Tazz, etc.), but these guys weren't big because they were booked strong.

But the major standing point is that he's gotten so much more exposure, more chances to get a reaction or do something impressive than most will EVER get. To say he has potential, but hasn't been given a chance is just ridiculous to me.

[Kane Knight]

[quote=PureHatred]destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.[quote]

Thats been my only complaint. 6 pages later I feel like someone was listening to me.

Because you've conveniently ignored anyone who responded to you on the subject.

We haven't IGNORED you, we just don't AGREE with you. Please, learn the difference, because I've covered your issue numerous times.

[Destor]

What the argument really boils down to is one of what we see in Masters. People are free to see potential; I will keep arguing that I do not. I find the ground that he's not been given the chance to be ridiculous--The HArdyz, for example, got over with nothing more than exposure. The notion that you need a main event feud to realise your potential is asinine to me. The Hardyz come to mind simply due to the Shadow issue. It's not like Jeff only got over once he had a match with the Undertaker. Or Matt only got over after...Wait...What HAS he done? ;) Some people have come in booked strong (LEsnar, Tazz, etc.), but these guys weren't big because they were booked strong.

But the major standing point is that he's gotten so much more exposure, more chances to get a reaction or do something impressive than most will EVER get. To say he has potential, but hasn't been given a chance is just ridiculous to me.
The tit got the hardyz over. They got over through hardcore which is cheap, but affective. I still dont think beating up fans is a good way to get a guy over, but Im willing to move on, and so i shall.

[Kane Knight]

It's like Simon Dean, with an average body, saying he has all the keys to fitness. Good heel material, IMO.

OF course, Fitness only means giant roid body.

Is anyone in wrestling really Average?

[Gertner]

Masters is awesome. There were some rumblings that they modelled his charater from me

[Anybody Thrilla]

Obviously out of all of the people on the roster, Simon Dean isn't the most "in shape". That's how I figured the character was structed, anyway. People would resent him for calling them 'fat losers' and such, but he's not in any phenomonal shape himself. The hypocracy alone is enough to make people want to boo him.

It's the same deal with Masters calling himself "The Masterpiece" in a sense. Thinking he's flawless and whatnot.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Masters is awesome. There were some rumblings that they modelled his charater from me

I'll only believe that when he starts wearing pink tights.

[Kane Knight]

The tit got the hardyz over. They got over through hardcore which is cheap, but affective. I still dont think beating up fans is a good way to get a guy over, but Im willing to move on, and so i shall.

They were getting over well before the whole TLC concept. They ran with hardcore, but it's not as though they hadn't made a name for themselves or started getting a fan reaction beforehand.

Two things that Masters hasn't done.

That's like saying Edge and Christian were only over because of the Conchairto, though they had gotten responses before that had become one of their finisher.

In short, if you ignore all the reaction they had gotten before they were established through TLC matches and the like, you're absolutely right. :D

They got bigger through garbage wrestling and spots, but they had some sort of support under them before that.

So yeah. Go back to ignoring all the people who got successful without needing to be pushed to the moon forcibly (The ones PH mentioned, among others), and pretend that he can be saved simply on the grounds that people can't get big without a feud with main eventers.

[Kane Knight]

Obviously out of all of the people on the roster, Simon Dean isn't the most "in shape". That's how I figured the character was structed, anyway. People would resent him for calling them 'fat losers' and such, but he's not in any phenomonal shape himself. The hypocracy alone is enough to make people want to boo him.

It's the same deal with Masters calling himself "The Masterpiece" in a sense. Thinking he's flawless and whatnot.

no, the berating method is enough to get people to hate him. He could be the most ripped guy in the WWE and get the same reaction.

Yes, Masters is ironic in that he's a cowardly bully. Very good. And yet he can't get the reaction Simon Dean does, so your logic falls apart even if you're correct on Dean. Wait. I know. Teaming with Maven is what put Dean over. You know, since Maven was such a huge star...

If the hypocrisy was all it took, then Masters'd be able to get a reaction at LEAST comparable to Dean. Especially since he's also the evil jock bully type. Instead, you get about the same reaction as a Con-Man match...

[Destor]

They were getting over well before the whole TLC concept. They ran with hardcore, but it's not as though they hadn't made a name for themselves or started getting a fan reaction beforehand.
I didnt say they wernt over befor TLC, I said they wernt over befor the TIT.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You don't think Masters gets a bigger reaction than Simon Dean? Seriously?

[PureHatred]

Seriously.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I beg to differ, but OK. Too bad there isn't a reaction gauge.

[Shadow]

How the hell did this get to 7 pages? Never mind.

So people see a comparasion between the Hardyz and Masters. Dear god in heaven that's tough to type in the same sentence. But there is a vaild corrolation between Masters and the Hardyz.

The corrolation is the same one Kane Knight pointed out. Exposure. Now granted this is 2 guys getting exposure during a time when tag team wrestling was hot hot hot but singles wrestling has always been hot. So Masters should be able to make this gimmick work. He gets a great debut package, alot better than most wrestlers mind you, is literally spoonfed the greatest and easiest heel gimmick that was ever written. He's given tons of exposure, and I do mean tons. But what has he done with all this exposure? What makes him suck so badly when the Hardyz had just as much exposure?

A fued. He hasn't fueded with anyone. Not one single person wants to (rightfully) get into the ring with this guy when he botches the simplest of moves. Even Lita can sit on an announce table and not botch it. When you don't have a single fued to work off and all you've got is this dumb ass Masterlock chalenge, of course the fans won't react to you. Dear god I want someone, anyone, to break the damn Masterlock. It's the dumbest finisher of all time and the fact that they keep doing that one arm drops and it's over shit is the dumbest thing ever. Just have someone like the Big Show break it so he can move on into a fued or get dropped down into OVW where he can get some chops and some better timing.

And as I am one of the "Masterhaters", I don't see any potential in the current character. Notice I say character. As a person, Masters seems to be ok but he's just not been given anything good or worthwhile to do. That's why he really sucks. And that's why we'll always hate him.