how many times did michaels forfeit titles?

[The MAC]

how many times did michaels forfeit titles? was it always about not wanting to do the job? oh and did he really get beat up by 11 guys in New York? or was that another work to cover up Michaels politics?

[Dave Youell]

From memory twice, kind of.

Before Mania X HBK didn't defend his title within 30 days (insane really as the women's title hasn't been defended for how long?) Anyway WWF President Jack Tunney declaired that he had to give up the title, he didn't, a tournment was declared to crown a new champ, Razor Ramon. Then they had that ladder match to combine them.

The beating up of 11 guys was probably a work, although i can't say for sure, but 11 guys would of done a hell of alot more damage than they did, anyway it was given to the number 1 contender, Dean Douglas *yawn*

Did he give up the title when he 'lost his smile' as well? Can't remember

Anyway the first 2 i'm sure of

[McLegend]

2 times I think

the 1st time it was the IC title and the WWE said he got beat up not sure if he actually did.

the 2nd time was the lost his smile incident with the WWE world title.

[McLegend]

Damn you Dave :foc:

[Dave Youell]

2 times I think

the 1st time it was the IC title and the WWE said he got beat up not sure if he actually did.

the 2nd time was the lost his smile incident with the WWE world title.
So he did give it up when he lost his smile?

That's 3 times then

Wow!

[Dave Youell]

Damn you Dave :foc:
:wave:

DAVE YOUELL 4 MOD

:wave:

[The MAC]

maybe michaels is the record holder for title forfeits. Unwillngness to job record? - I'm hulk hogan has that honour

[Rob]

Actually there is a lot more.

WWF IC title - Walked out of the WWF after failing a drugs test. Came back to do the IC unification deal with Razor Ramon

WWF Tag Titles - w/Diesel. Diesel was getting the world title and both refused to drop the titles before then.

WWF IC title - Gets arse stomped in Syracuse and forfeits the title instead of doing the job to Shane Douglas as planned.

WWF title - Lost his smile and quit.

WWF Tag titles - w/Steve Austin. Walks out of the WWF after getting his arse handed to him by Bret Hart backstage.

Might also want to note the following...

- Held the WWF tag titles 4 times, forfeited 2 due to real life actions and forfeited 2 due to storylines.

-Held IC title 3 times, forfeited due to real life 2 times and cleanly lost 1 time to Marty Jannetty, his fomer tag partner and was due to punishment for his drug problems

- Held European title once and lost that in a mock match to his Clique buddy HHH after point blank refusing to put over Owen Hart as planned. Also got the title in the first place for point blank refusing to put over Davey Boy Smith.

Held WWF/E title 4 times. Handed over 1, lost 3 in the ring although he kicked up such a fuss backstage at WM14 refusing to do a job to Steve Austin literally minutes before their main event match that the Undertaker taped up his fist and in no certain terms TOLD him he was doing the job or else.

[The Mackem]

He probably doesn't like it when his trousers fall down without a belt.

[KayfabeMan]

And Hogan is an asshole, huh? Let's take a look:

AWA
Hogan won the Championship twice, both times having it taken back from him and given back to Nick Bockwinkle.


WWF / WWE
In 1988, Hogan lost the WWF Title to Andre the Giant.

In 1989, Hogan layed down for The Ultimate Warrior.

In 1991, Hogan lost the WWF Title to The Undertaker.

In late 1991, there was a mess over the Title, and it was held up.

In the mid-90's, Hulk Hogan lost the belt to Yokozuna.

In 2002, Hulkster got the Title back and lost it to Undertaker.

WCW
Hogan lost the WCW Championship Title to The Giant / Big Show.

Hulk Hogan lost the WCW Championship Title to Lex Luger.

Hulk Hogan lost in a WCW Championship match to Sting.

Hulk Hogan lost the WCW Title Belt to Bill Goldberg.

Hogan lost the WCW Heavyweight Title to Ric Flair.

Hulk Hogan lost the WCW Heavyweight Title to Sting.


Now out of all of that, the Title was held up once in WWF - and was basically given to Sting at one point, over much controversy. The AWA switches had nothing to do with Hogan not wanting to lay down, but more about AWA wanting to keep Bockwinkle as top heel (essentially doing nothing for Hogan though, as he'd never get a Title reign).

Every other time, Hogan has done business for the company he works for, be it WWF / WWE or WCW. I don't understand how people praise Michaels and knock Hogan, when Hogan is a FAR bigger draw, and at least does what is good for the company while he does good for himself - unlike Michaels.

[The MAC]

I think they are both assholes. Personally I would love to see someone potato the shit out of Michaels. Owen should have done it..damn..

[Funky Fly]

I think they are both assholes. Personally I would love to see someone potato the shit out of Michaels. Owen should have done it..damn..
I agree with this guy right here.

[PureHatred]

C'mon Kayfabe...listing Hogan's losses doesn't exactly explain away some of the shit he pulled. Neither the loss to Andre or either loss to Sting were done clean Hogan/Sting at Starcade probably did more to bury the nWo and 'Crow' Sting than anything.

For the record, I think both guys are assholes.

[Loose Cannon]

Don't even get me started on his win over Yoko at Mania 9, making both Hart and Yoko look like losers in about 12 seconds.

[Pepsi Man]

Don't even get me started on his win over Yoko at Mania 9, making both Hart and Yoko look like losers in about 12 seconds.
Well, you COULD always factor in the fact that Yoko had just finished up with a physical contest, while Hogan was in the back sitting on his ass or whatever for the prior hour or so.

[The MAC]

hogan beating yoko :
That was the most "wCw" thing the WWF has ever done.

I really cant see what the fans are popping about when this old fart makes his way to the ring- he is 25 years too late for the 80's.

one more match.. tsk tsk tsk :nono:

absolute fucken balls

[Pepsi Man]

hogan beating yoko :
That was the most "wCw" thing the WWF has ever done.

I really cant see what the fans are popping about when this old fart makes his way to the ring- he is 25 years too late for the 80's.

one more match.. tsk tsk tsk :nono:

absolute fucken balls
25 years too late for the 80s? What, did you want him to compete as a pro wrestler in elementary school?

[KayfabeMan]

C'mon Kayfabe...listing Hogan's losses doesn't exactly explain away some of the shit he pulled. Neither the loss to Andre or either loss to Sting were done clean Hogan/Sting at Starcade probably did more to bury the nWo and 'Crow' Sting than anything.

I mentioned the Sting thing above though. One "bad" incident doesn't make someone an asshole, because if that we're the case, everyone in wrestling would be an asshole. <---- Though that statement is not too far off. I do agree, it was a let down for the fans.

The loss to Andre you can't really attribute to Hogan, due to the fact that during that time he was doing what they were giving him. McMahon had all these things lined up, and Hogan played along. He'd have been a huge dope not to play along at that time, as you take the money when they give it.

[KayfabeMan]

Don't even get me started on his win over Yoko at Mania 9, making both Hart and Yoko look like losers in about 12 seconds.

Just to clarify, I'm not about to defend Hogan here - just making a statement from a booking standpoint. I would take into account what Pepsi said above, about Hogan being the fresh guy, and Yokozuna being involved in a bout just seconds before (he was already in a bad way anyhow, leading to Fuji jumping in). Plus, you have to remember that he was a fat fatty (God Bless him), who understandably could not be in the ring that long.

So it didn't make Yokozuna look weak, especially when he picked up the win over Hogan later on anyway - and was given credit for ending Hogan's WWF career, which further helped him get over as a heel. I so wish he was alive :(

Plus, he went on to have a year long run with the belt (Yoko), before giving it back to Hart - who didn't look too weak either. Hogan coming down to the ring (we are going storyline and viewer wise here, not "smark" - I hate the term - standpoint) had no impact on Hart, who was already out of the bout at that point.

I don't think Yoko defeating Bret and going on a year long Title run (at that point) would've given him as much heat as beating Hogan did, so they wound up even. Hogan got the belt, Yokozuna got established, and Bret went on to four more Title runs.

[PureHatred]

OK...KayFabulous.

Yeah, i get that you're not defending Hogan so much as pointing out that he gets a lot of shit for doing things that many, many other wrestlers have done before him. The stuff written about dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair's backstage theatrics have filled books. It just sounded a little like that.

[Nervous Ferret]

shut up canon

[Loose Cannon]

Just to clarify, I'm not about to defend Hogan here - just making a statement from a booking standpoint. I would take into account what Pepsi said above, about Hogan being the fresh guy, and Yokozuna being involved in a bout just seconds before (he was already in a bad way anyhow, leading to Fuji jumping in). Plus, you have to remember that he was a fat fatty (God Bless him), who understandably could not be in the ring that long.

So it didn't make Yokozuna look weak, especially when he picked up the win over Hogan later on anyway - and was given credit for ending Hogan's WWF career, which further helped him get over as a heel. I so wish he was alive :(

Plus, he went on to have a year long run with the belt (Yoko), before giving it back to Hart - who didn't look too weak either. Hogan coming down to the ring (we are going storyline and viewer wise here, not "smark" - I hate the term - standpoint) had no impact on Hart, who was already out of the bout at that point.

I don't think Yoko defeating Bret and going on a year long Title run (at that point) would've given him as much heat as beating Hogan did, so they wound up even. Hogan got the belt, Yokozuna got established, and Bret went on to four more Title runs.


To me, it made Bret Hart look very weak and Yokozuna look weak as well. Here's the almighty Hulk Hogan coming down to ringside after he had a match earlier in the night mind you. Bret and Yoko went about let's say 20 minutes. Bret couldn't beat Yoko in 20 minutes. K, got that out of the way. Yoko just won his very first Title and was booked to dominate everyone before that.

Here comes Hogan. We see Bret asking Hogan to go get him because to me watching at home, Bret couldn't handle it himself. Hogan doesn't get hit by the salt, while Bret did. Hogan looked a little smarter to me there. Then Hogan goes on to beat Yoko in like 12 seconds. So we have Bret Hart with salt in his eyes, looking injured, just losing to Yoko after 20 minutes and we have the guy that dominated the WWF in the past year both taking a back seat to another Hogan Title win. Ridiculous. How do you sqash the champion right after he won the belt, after he's been built strong the whole year? And the thing is, Hulk wasn't a draw at all in 1993

NOW

Hogan WAS suppossed to work with Hart next and put him over, but the Hulkster threw a fit and said no. He said Bret wasn't even in his league. So Vince and Hogan argued, Vince got pissed and had Yoko take the Title from him real quick. Yea, maybe Yoko and Hart got established again after that, but if Hogan stuck around and didn't leave, god knows what would of happened.

[Loose Cannon]

see, you got me started Kayfabe :(

[loopydate]

And let's not forget, his loss to Yoko wasn't clean by any stretch of the imagination.

[The MAC]

about the 80's comment - I meant that he its 2005 and he is acting like its 1980. maybe he is just suffering from memory loss

[Impact!]

^ I agree.

Hey MacGyver007 wanna be my apprentice n00b?

[The MAC]

Impact player - I hope thats not a negative thing..

i may be a n00b interms of posting but I've been reading this forum for a very long time. With this wohle bret hart maybe returning thing i decided to join and actually participate -

[Impact!]

No definately not a negative thing.

Just looking for an apprentice.

i.e: Chavo-Skippord

Ferret-Sadistic :shifty:

[Gertner]

how did it make bret look weak?

Hogan came out a fresh man fighting against a 500 pounder who had just wrestled a 20 minute match

[Loose Cannon]

did you like not even read my post or what? It's right there as clear as day.

[McLegend]

I was always under the impression that Hogan jobbed clean to Yoko.

How did it go down.

[Loose Cannon]

Taken from the book "Wrestlecrap" by RD Reynolds and Randy Baer. Pg 139

Hogan left the WWF amid amid a good deal of controversy in the summer of 1993. He had resurfaced after almost a year, at Wrestlemania IX, muscling his way into the main-event scene and recapturing the WWF world title. This in and of itself wouldn't have been so unusual, save for the fact that Hogan wasn't even in the main event!

The scheduled main event was to see youthful champion Bret Hart tangle with the 500-pound Yokozuna, a match Hart was to win Hogan, howvwe, had other plans. Throwing a hissy fit behind the scenes, Hogan was able to convince Vince McMahon that he, not Hart, should be the world champion. Hart therefore was booked to lose the title, after which Hogan would run down to the ring and "rescue" Hart. Yoko issued an immediate challenge to Hogan, who pinned the monster in under a minute, thus making Bret and Yokozuna look like total losers.

Vince McMahon had a method to his madness. He would allow Hogan to prance around one last time with the belt, provided that Hogan would see that Hart was the champion for a new era, and Hogan could ride off into the sunset. Hogan agreed to this before Wrestlemania, and, much to the chagrin of the majority of fnas, he won the belt. As soon as the belt was in his grasp, Hogan reneged on his promise, and took two months off from defending the belt. McMahon, incensed, had Yokozuna crush Hogan in thier rematch to win back the belt.

[Loose Cannon]

I was always under the impression that Hogan jobbed clean to Yoko.

How did it go down.

some photographer got up on the ring apron to take a picture of Hulk. When he did, the camera exploded in Hogan's face and Yoko pinned him

[Pepsi Man]

did you like not even read my post or what? It's right there as clear as day.
So Hulk didn't get salt thrown in his eyes, luckily, and beat a worn-down Yokozuna? Yeah, that makes Bret Hart look WEAK, and Yokozuna look weaker. It makes anyone that's won OR lost a match to Bret or Yoko look weak.

[McLegend]

some photographer got up on the ring apron to take a picture of Hulk. When he did, the camera exploded in Hogan's face and Yoko pinned him
WTF

[Loose Cannon]

Well your opinions. I can't really say anything more if you agree with how that was booked. But whatever.

Bret: Go Get em Hulk. Save the Title for me cause I couldn't do it myself.

Yea, real strong.

[The Mackem]

Yeah but Hogan lost the belt at King of the Ring if memory serves which goes to prove that he was a mere commoner while Yokozuna recaptured the belt i. a legitimate fight while Bret won the tournament. If my mind isn't playing tricks. By the way how did Yokozuna lose the belt after this?

[The Mackem]

WTF

LOL. Actually in retrospect it's quite funny because Hogan's posing actually lost him the match.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah but Hogan lost the belt at King of the Ring if memory serves which goes to prove that he was a mere commoner while Yokozuna recaptured the belt i. a legitimate fight while Bret won the tournament. If my mind isn't playing tricks. By the way how did Yokozuna lose the belt after this?

yea, only because he pissed Vince off by not wanting to lose to Hart. He was supposed to hold it for a little longer. Look at the wrestlecrap article. He didn't defend the thing for two months. WTF?

[The Mackem]

Well, he was old back then Loose Cannon :shifty:

[McLegend]

Yeah but Hogan lost the belt at King of the Ring if memory serves which goes to prove that he was a mere commoner while Yokozuna recaptured the belt i. a legitimate fight while Bret won the tournament. If my mind isn't playing tricks. By the way how did Yokozuna lose the belt after this?
Didn't he lose at Wrestlemania? Or was that another time he had the title.

[Rob]

He lost the title back to Bret at Mania 10.

For the record, I think the WM9 deal definately made Bret look weak. Unfortunately, people who were still watching the WWF at the time wanted a new star and put all their faith into Bret Hart. In other words, people wanted to see Bret Hart, and ONLY Bret Hart on top. Hogan didn't defend for months because people didn't want to see him in any match other than one against Bret Hart. Even when Yoko got the belt back and they planned to make Lex Luger a superstar, the people still wanted Bret Hart as champ.

[wwe2222]

I remember wwf magazine hyping up a possible hogan vs bret hart match at the time. I was really excited to see that happen.

Also, I never got the impression that bret was telling hogan to go for it because he couldnt do it alone...i always felt bret was just saying go ahead, accept the challenge...cause it was Fuji who made the challenge initially when hogan was outside 'helping' bret. Just my opinion on it though.

And yes hbk and hogan are two big assholes...but they are my 2 all time favs

[Vastardikai]

Sorry to bump this, but I think Bret/Hogan in '94 would have been bigger than Micheals/Hogan '05. For one reason and one reason only:

Hogan could go slightly better then than he can now, and Bret was on the cusp of his prime. He could pull a good match out of anyone, except Kamala (but god, it's KAMALA). This would have made a great deal of money. Hogan's ego fugazi'd it.

But, to what Rob said, Bret was a different animal for the fans. They went from seeing Hogan wrestling a couple times a year on television/PPV, and defending the title even LESS, to seeing Bret defend the title about every week, against everyone from Kamala to Virgil to Razor Ramon. For many, self included, Bret was an accessible alternative to Hogan at that point. Hogan, while still a draw, was kind of the distant superstar that you could never hope to meet. Bret, on the other hand, was more like somebody you could meet on the street and have a conversation with.

But on the topic at hand. How many times did Micheals forfeit titles? Enough times to show McMahon that he shouldn't have made him the centerpiece of a promotion. I would like to point out that the last boom period occurred when Shawn Micheals WASN'T on TV every week.

[loopydate]

I would like to point out that the last boom period occurred when Shawn Micheals WASN'T on TV every week.

Neither was Bret Hart.

Just saying.

[wwe2222]

I would like to point out that the last boom period occurred when Shawn Micheals WASN'T on TV every week.

but you could also argue that his being on tv every week as part of DX helped jump start the boom period.

[Rob]

Neither was Bret Hart.

Just saying.

Wasn't he? When WWF started to turn around again in 1997, Bret Hart was the focal point of the programming and WWF champion for 4 months. He then went to WCW and was on their TV everyweek while they were doing huge numbers.

[loopydate]

Wasn't he? When WWF started to turn around again in 1997, Bret Hart was the focal point of the programming and WWF champion for 4 months. He then went to WCW and was on their TV everyweek while they were doing huge numbers.

Those are valid points, which I counter with:

a) Bret may have been the champion when the boom started, but it wasn't Hart 3:16 shirts that I saw in my high school cafeteria. And people weren't raising the Hart Family Eyebrow.

b) WCW was already doing tremendous ratings when they signed Bret. And they continued to do tremendous ratings after his retirement.

And, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that either promotion was better off without him. I only mentioned Bret by name because of this comment:

I would like to point out that the last boom period occurred when Shawn Micheals WASN'T on TV every week.

And the last boom period didn't hit its stride in 1998 after Bret Hart left WWF.

[The MAC]

true- but it was because of the screwjob that wwe had so much interest in it.Vince being the money genius came up with Evil Vince and the corporation and other such shit.

wCw could have made some serious headway with bret hart had they also played off the screwjob..they did it a few years later..idiots

[McLegend]

true- but it was because of the screwjob that wwe had so much interest in it.Vince being the money genius came up with Evil Vince and the corporation and other such shit.
So what you are saying is HBK is invloved in the boom. Cause if there was no HBk refusing to job to Bret the screwjob would never have happend, and WWE might not have doen as well.

So see HBK is a big reason why the boomed happened