IC champion as top contender, is it now only a memory?

[SuperSlim]

remember back in the day when the IC champ was actually considered the #1 contender for the world title? When the IC champ was actually a someone.

Like you oculd look at the IC champion and see him as a possibility for the world title reign. Like I was watchin Shelton compete in the Money in the bank match. Shelton was damn good as IC champion whenever they actually did somethin with him. It's like they don't even care anymore about the IC title or whoever the IC champion is. I mean they ended his reign and gave it Carlito. They feuded for a month then that was it. Shelton then went down to nothing after having the longest IC title reign.

Whenever they did somethin with the IC title. LIke an actual feud or somethin Shelton looked good. Like he could and should compete for hte world title. When Orton was on his game he looked like a contender. Now we have Carlito and I mean come on. He has done nothing but do a lotta talking. Edge was champ after Orton and Edge didn't look like a contender. Not at all. I don't even remember who was champ before Orton.

It's like at one time you could. Now you have to have these damn predictable tournemnts or battle royals to determine who is gonna be number 1 contender or out of the blue they'll just say that some guy is the number 1 contender. Ic champion has been downsized to nothing more than a mid carder. barely touching upper midcard.

I guess you can just discuss how you feel about it, recall days when the IC champ was an actual threat to the world champ, the downfall and whatnot. I just had to let that out finally.

[Nark Order]

The writers fault, not CCC

[Astley316]

Yeah i know what you mean, back in the day the Ic Champ was always seen as the number 2 guy, even when he wasn't fighting the main champ, now it's like the ic title is an after thought that they dont really care about anymore.
I dont think it's carlito's fault that his regin has not set alight, like sheltons or ortons, after all the way he was booked up to summerslam was just awrfu

[Chavo Classic]

Belts other than the Heavyweight and World championship mean fuck all at the moment.

[Jordan]

I think Carlito is a pretty good champ, the guy has TONS of charisma and great mic skill. They are playing to his strengths so thats good. His feud with Flair has been well done and i'm sure that at Unforgiven they will have a good old school blood bath for the IC title.

[Chavo Classic]

Its hardly a good way of cemented your reign as the greatest IC champion ever. By beating bitch tits Flair

[dablackguy]

remember back in the day when the IC champ was actually considered the #1 contender for the world title? When the IC champ was actually a someone.

Now you're a nobody if you don't walk on Raw or Smackdown and get the US or IC title you're first show on . :nono:

That's not me bashing Carlito, its just the nature of things. I think one of the differences now is that we don't have "the great feud" over the IC title. Going back, we had like HBK/Hall before he got drunk constantly, Austin/Rock, etc. Similar to all their non world title belts, they aren't doing anything to make at a worthy stepping stone to the world title.

[Nark Order]

Yes, I still salivate at the thoughts I have of the old Rock/Hunter fueds over the Ic belt...

[Kane Knight]

They haven't consistently done that for over a decade.

CONSISTENTLY.

[dablackguy]

They haven't consistently done that for over a decade.

CONSISTENTLY.

Sad but true, Why do you think I had to go so far back to name great feuds....

[Favre4Ever]

As a matter of fact, do you remember when there was an actual contendership RANKING? The Rock would be, and then Austin would be, and then Angle would be.......it wasnt very common for someone high up on the board to just drop off of the face of the earth.

[PureHatred]

I.....c....Champion?

[Gouda]

That's why I think Flair should win the IC title and then his coming feud with HHH can be over that belt.

Probably not going to happen since HHH would never want the IC title, but if he did do it, it would help the title immensely.

Maybe bring it back up to the level where main eventers could hold it.

I mean, back in the day a guy could fight for the Heavyweight Title and then be fighting for the IC title the next month and not lose his spot as a big name.

[Jaded-Dragon]

I was actually thinking this very same thing the other day. The IC or US title was always looked at as the stepping stone to be the number one contender. But how many times has the IC champ and the world champ actually got at each other? Not many. But when they do, it's always big. Just look at Hogan vs Warrior. A lousy match no doubt, but people still hold it high as one of the better matches of the "golden days" of wrestling.

Carlito's charisma aside... I don't feel like he is gaining anything from holding the IC belt, nor is he doing anything for the belt. Shelton could of done wonders with and for the belt if he would of had someone that could keep up with him. I know HBK is far past holding the IC belt, but those two fueding over the belt for the better part of a year would of been complete gold. Or even Shelton with the belt going after Batista (had he not been traded). I wouldn't mind a good face vs face feud like Hall and HBK during their second ladder match. It's been awhile since we've had a good face vs face feud.

[Chavo Classic]

The IC championship is given to the guy at the top of the midcard - simple. It's always been that way, and an the very very rare occassion the guy from the top of the midcard has faced off against the guy from the top of the upper tier (i.e. the champion).

The difference is now that the midcard carries very little significance in the booking committee's eyes. The last success story of the IC chamionship would probably be Randy Orton and before that; Kurt Angle. Other than these two guys no other IC champion in the last few years has been allowed to move upwards.

[Hired Hitman]

I think that the IC championship should be used as a replacement title, say if you want two wrestlers to fued over the world title, but there is already wrestlers fighting over it at that time, then you would make the fued over the IC Title.

[Destor]

What would you do with the IC champ in that scenario?

[Chavo Classic]

I've thought of so many possible feud scenarios involving the IC title. I've actually thought up of program of up to 4 PPVs of matches once. It's my way of counting sheep when I'm in bed

[Deadman's Hart]

For the record RVD had the IC belt before Orton. Their match was pretty damn good too. RVD was a good IC champ. Remember the Ladder match that he and Christian had on Raw in late 2004? That was a good MAIN EVENT. Yeah, the IC belt does need to get its credit back. As well as the US title.

[Destor]

I beleive he said people who were pushed passed the midcard, Van Dam has yet to get that push since his rein as IC champ.

[Kane Knight]

As a matter of fact, do you remember when there was an actual contendership RANKING? The Rock would be, and then Austin would be, and then Angle would be.......it wasnt very common for someone high up on the board to just drop off of the face of the earth.

Yeah, but again they enforced that selectively.

[PullMyFinger]

The reason why is because back then there was only one championship title, and the IC title by default was #2 to be feuded by some great contenders. Now since you have 2 world champs, it greatly diminishes the value of the IC title by making it look like a second rate piece of shit belt. The WWE Title is now the main championship, and the WHC is now the #2 belt (with the way Smackdown is)...so it's sorta like if you're not really good to be the champ, you're on Smackdown and youre going for the WHC. The IC title as a result looks like shite....means that you weren't good enough for both WWE Title and WHC on SD!

[Kane Knight]

That would only work if the Smackdown title wasn't treated as though it were on a different show.

[TerranRich]

Guys! Are we forgetting about John Cena? He won the U.S. belt (considered the mirror image of the IC belt) and then shortly after became a contender for the WWE belt. I was surprised when that happened, it made the secondary belt look like more than just the secondary belt. Then he lost it to CCC in a way that didn't make Cena look like he just jobbed to him, and shortly afterward won the WWE belt.

But yeah, that's like the only time in a few years that's happened. And it wasn't even the IC belt.

[Kane Knight]

Guys! Are we forgetting about John Cena? He won the U.S. belt (considered the mirror image of the IC belt) and then shortly after became a contender for the WWE belt. I was surprised when that happened, it made the secondary belt look like more than just the secondary belt. Then he lost it to CCC in a way that didn't make Cena look like he just jobbed to him, and shortly afterward won the WWE belt.

But yeah, that's like the only time in a few years that's happened. And it wasn't even the IC belt.

He didn't become the contender because of the belt though.

Of course, even in 98, they'd bring it up like it was some hidden fact. "Oh, by the way, I should be the #1 contender."

[SuperSlim]

Guys! Are we forgetting about John Cena? He won the U.S. belt (considered the mirror image of the IC belt) and then shortly after became a contender for the WWE belt. I was surprised when that happened, it made the secondary belt look like more than just the secondary belt. Then he lost it to CCC in a way that didn't make Cena look like he just jobbed to him, and shortly afterward won the WWE belt.

But yeah, that's like the only time in a few years that's happened. And it wasn't even the IC belt.

He won the title in the WM XX show opener against hte Big Show. After that where has he gone? what has he done? Nothin really. Then he had his match against CCC in his first title match and lost it. Sure it wasn't done in a a way to make Cena look weak or anything but that's besides teh point. When he was US champion all he did with it was make the belt spin. After that there was nothing done with it. Well nothing I cna remember.

And yeah sure RVD had some good matches as champion but he still didn't look like a contender. When Cena was US champion he didn't look like a real contender until everyone knew he was going to be when he was feudin with the champion and lost the belt to OJ.

My goodness. that was when the blet hit it's lowest mark. The Velocity jobber champion was suddenly elevated by association and became US champion and did nothing with it. Absolutely nothing. Ic title. Now resting ont eh shoulders of Carlito. Sure he has mad crazy charisma. I won't deny that at all. But what else does he have? Don't really know, we haven't really had the chance to see anything.

[RottingFreak]

The thing is that if ALL the Intercontinental champions became contenders for the bigger titles, it would probably get very predictable and boring. Besides, like you said, Randy Orton recently became a main eventer thanks to the Intercontinental title. It's not like it's not happening anymore.

[Londoner]

The last success story of the IC chamionship would probably be Randy Orton and before that; Kurt Angle. Other than these two guys no other IC champion in the last few years has been allowed to move upwards.


I wonder why that is...

[SuperSlim]

The thing is that if ALL the Intercontinental champions became contenders for the bigger titles, it would probably get very predictable and boring. Besides, like you said, Randy Orton recently became a main eventer thanks to the Intercontinental title. It's not like it's not happening anymore.

and this, gentlemen, is how you take this to the absurd.

there is no way int he world you could nor would you even think about makin all champions main eventers. Not all of them can cut that. Not all of them are worthy of that sort of light. There are some that should have gottent hat rub to be main event. THere are some, like Orton, who did get that rub and was elevated. Perhaps it was too early, as well as his face turn which really flopped his stuff.

But really, there are some that could really do somethin. Basically what is being said is that the IC title has taken man many steps down. Now when you see the IC champion, first you have to sit there and try to remember who it is. Then after you rememebr who it is you wonder when did he ever defend that title. Then most of the time you wonder why he is even champion. When a time and a half ago you didn't have that problem. Orton vs. Foley at Backlash was pure gold. I mean damn I could still pop that match in and watch it all the way through agian still rewindin to re-watch parts of it again. Orton was allowed to do somethin. Shelton had his moments to shine and when he got those opportunities he left you on the edge of your seat wanting more.

What did they do with that? They screwd Orton and dropped Shelton off to job to Masters.

Basically they are screwin a lotta stuff up and just stickin that IC title on anyone that looks like they have teh possibility to be somethin but when they give them crap to work with and they can't turn crap into gold it's their fault so they are dropped for someone else.

I dunno. I could just go on and on but main point, not everyone deserves to be elevated just because they win but when certain people do become champions you can see that they either deserve to be elevated or need to work on a thing or two before they reach that next plateau.

[Kane Knight]

I hate to do this, but the main reason the belt is treated as a secondary title is because of Triple H. ;) Naw, I think it's the bookers, but I doubt Trips is onnicent here. You notice they don't really push any midcarders into big feuds on a regular basis? There's no upper-midcard with the exception of Edge and Kane, just the same main eventers every month, and the occasional guy THROWN in there. Most of the midcarders don't feel like they could challenge for the title, so making the IC champ a contender would be a waste. As long as there's a glass ceiling between the main event and the midcard, then there's not going to be any worthwhile development.

The writers don't want to make it feel like there are midcarders who cna do something big. That would require making them do stuff on a weekly basis. Hunter doesn't want competition at the top that might get more over than him (So why the fuck is Angle on Raw?????), and Vince seems happy with how the company's being run.

Oh, and to the complaint about becoming "Predictable and boring," wrestling is formulaic and by nature, PREDICTABLE. IT's actually more predictable now than it was when they used this plot device. Why? Because the IC champion can still lose the contendeorship, they can blow their title shot, and someone else can take a contendership spot for them. But most importantly, because they were writing predictable but CREATIVE storylines.

[Splaya]

Its hardly a good way of cemented your reign as the greatest IC champion ever. By beating bitch tits Flair

Haha you called him bitch tits:lol:

[vampiro03]

I always saw the ic title as a pre-world title, meaning. the wwe wants to see how someone looks and acts as champion, how the fans react to him being champion. its kinda like how Batista and HHH swerved everyone 2 months before they fought. the wwe was seeing how the fans react to batista turning on hhh.

[jindrak]

The IC title just needs to be surrounded by a hot feud. Rock/SCSA, Rock/Triple H, Bret Hart/Mr. perfect, HBK/Razor Ramon, even Chyna/Jericho.

Title belts can help enhance a feud also.

[SuperSlim]

well the Shelotn/Carlito feud could have went somewhere but they did nothing with it. Then Jericho/Shelton was too short

[Kane Knight]

well the Shelotn/Carlito feud could have went somewhere but they did nothing with it. Then Jericho/Shelton was too short

And if it was done well, one of them could have looked like a viable contender.

[SuperSlim]

and the IC title would have been made to look good. but instead they focused on... somethin else. probably Triple H