WWE Legal Team Targeting Everyone [Archive]

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 11:37 AM

Source: Wrestlezone.com

WWE's legal team has been on a terror as of late by going after anyone and everyone they think might infringe on their copyrights and trademarks, most especially ones concerning ECW. Here are some of the people they have threatened with letters just recently.

Mark LoMonica is forbidden from using the names "Bubba", "Buh-Buh", "Bubba Ray Dudley" or "Buh-Buh Ray Dudley" on independent shows and appearances as they caught a company using the name "Bubba" on advertising for a recent New York indie show and then they sent him and the indy promotion cease and desist letters to stop him from using that name or any name similar to his old name for that matter. Devon Hughes cannot use the name "D-Von" or "D-Von Dudley", although they can't stop him from using the name "Devon" as that's his real name. And of course, they can't use or be referred to as "The Dudleys", "The Dudleyz", "The Dudley Boys", or "Dudley Boyz" period.

WWE is also claiming rights to their catchphrases and costumes. They can't wear camouflauge or wrestle wearing glasses. WWE is also not allowing the term "get the tables" be used in advertising for them as a press release was pulled with new phrasing as WWE wouldn't allow the NY indie group to use the term, "get the tables." There is also a possibility that WWE will claim the terms "3-D" and "D-Von, Get the tables", although they can't ban them from using the manuever. WWE is claiming broad rights to everything associated with The Dudley Boyz gimmick.

Hughes and LoMonica have talked about fighting WWE legally because they left ECW with the idea that they owned the rights to their names and gimmick, but it could end up being a costly fight which is why they might not challenge WWE in court. The former Dudleyz are currently brainstorming a new gimmick for the team and they will let TNA know what the gimmick is after they trademark it themselves.

The WWE legal team has sent a letter to BigVanVader.com, saying that Leon White (Vader) has given them the right to legal use the name. They want the site owner to transfer the domain to them, despite the fact that he runs it as a fan site and has done so at a financial loss, because it's now their property.

WWE have sent a cease and desist letter to Peter Polaco, aka Justin Credible. Apparently, he can no longer use the "Justin Credible" name on wrestling shows anymore.

Johnny Ace recently informed Pete Gruner (Billy Kidman) that he not use the name "Billy Kidman" or "Kidman" on the independent scene when his 90-day no-compete clause expires next month.

The WWE legal team informed the webmaster of Spike Dudley's official website, SpikeDudley.net, that they can no longer use photos of him taken during his WWE tenure on his site. The WWE legal team says it constitutes copyright infringement and threatened him with a $150,000 damage case per photo. Some official WWE photos are still up on the site as of this post, but I'd imagine they'll be taken down sooner rather than later.

Also, the WWE legal team is currently looking at the folks who put together the "Hardcore Homecoming" shows for any potential legal hole they can nail them with. There's nothing specific yet, but WWE is claiming that the shows were infringing on WWE's trademarks and intellectual properties.

And in one last bit of legal news, I have actually been contacted myself by the WWE legal department who have told me that I must remove any images on this website dealing with WWE. You would think they'd have better things to do but apparently not.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 11:41 AM

Holy fucking shit. This is insane. WWE is acting like a bunch of little bitches, overprotective of trademarks that AREN'T EVEN THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH!!!!

Seriously, this is fucked up.

Shit. What's going to happen to my wrestling themes web site? Motherfucker...

Impact!

09-09-2005, 11:42 AM

:wtf: That's fuckin gay

Destor

09-09-2005, 11:51 AM

This sucks. But they do own them, and even though their morally in the wrong, legally their in the right. And that sucks.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 11:54 AM

Dammit, WWE never came up with the names of Billy Kidman, Justin Credible, The Dudley Boyz, Spike Dudley, and Vader. WWE is DEFINITELY not in the right, legally or otherwise, for going after the Hardcore Homecoming show. So now that they own everything WCW and ECW, they think they own the entire world and everything wrestling. Way to let your former talent make a living for themselves. Good thing people like Jindrak, Morgan, and a few others use their real names. Does Mero own the rights to Johnny B Badd or whatever, his old WCW gimmick? If so, they might as well go after Mero for using it in TNA, if he still does.

Destor

09-09-2005, 11:59 AM

They may not of came up with them but they do OWN them.

09-09-2005, 12:11 PM

That's just wrong!

Not only do they leave these guys with no job and no chance of a job for 90 days, they take away an identity that can earn them some money!

I think it's appalling that the WWE can do this to these people!

Quite simply it's BULLSHIT!

Destor

09-09-2005, 12:13 PM

When your right your right.

Crashnburn

09-09-2005, 12:14 PM

Dammit, WWE never came up with the names of Billy Kidman, Justin Credible, The Dudley Boyz, Spike Dudley, and Vader. WWE is DEFINITELY not in the right, legally or otherwise, for going after the Hardcore Homecoming show.

They didn't come up with them, true. But they did purchase everything ECW including the rights to the names. Paul may have let the Dudleys continue using the name after they left ECW but apparently WWE is in no way going to be any bit as generous. Same goes for Billy Kidman and WCW. Like it or not they did trademark the names as soon as the wrestlers began working for them or they did purchase them from the former owners who had trademarked them.

In all honesty, if you're a wrestler and your name is your livlihood then you should trademark it as soon as possible. And if you ever start to work for WWE and your name is trademark they'll probably change your whole gimmick to something else. Once you're done with the company go back to using your original gimmick.

Lastly, I want to say I'm not defending what the WWE is doing. In fact I think its pretty shitty. I was just saying it was in their right to do so.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 12:17 PM

When YOU'RE right, yes YOU ARE (YOU'RE) right :D

But yeah, I know they OWN them, but it's still bullshit.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 12:18 PM

They didn't come up with them, true. But they did purchase everything ECW including the rights to the names. Paul may have let the Dudleys continue using the name after they left ECW but apparently WWE is in no way going to be any bit as generous. Same goes for Billy Kidman and WCW. Like it or not they did trademark the names as soon as the wrestlers began working for them or they did purchase them from the former owners who had trademarked them.

In all honesty, if you're a wrestler and your name is your livlihood then you should trademark it as soon as possible. And if you ever start to work for WWE and your name is trademark they'll probably change your whole gimmick to something else. Once you're done with the company go back to using your original gimmick.

Lastly, I want to say I'm not defending what the WWE is doing. In fact I think its pretty shitty. I was just saying it was in their right to do so.

That's not fair, Crashnburn. I edited my post less than a MINUTE after I posted it. :p I know I misspoke (mistyped) in that original version of my post.

Nark Order

09-09-2005, 12:27 PM

Wow.

Can't say it isn't a good business decision for WWE though. Everyone that they once had has to completely re-invent themselves before they can make the promotions they are working for any money whatsoever. And as proven in the past... re-inventing yourself for another promotion is not the easiest thing to do (ie: Billy Gunn)

Crashnburn

09-09-2005, 12:29 PM

That's not fair, Crashnburn. I edited my post less than a MINUTE after I posted it. :p I know I misspoke (mistyped) in that original version of my post.

... oops? :lol:

Rob

09-09-2005, 12:30 PM

This is the kinda thing that happens when you're stuck right up your own arse.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 12:32 PM

WWE did this a few years ago, attacking fan web sites and the like for using WWE pictures. Then they eased up on it and let it go. I hope they don't come after us, the fans, again for fan sites and sites with downloads. :shifty:

Nark Order

09-09-2005, 12:36 PM

Now that wrestling is in a bit of a slow period again, I wouldn't be surprised if Vince tries to get every penny he can get.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 12:38 PM

I don't feel sorry for them, they signed the contract and if they were dumb enough to think that the could use their ringnames and gimmicks when they left, then they deserve what they get.

Nark Order

09-09-2005, 12:43 PM

It does get kind of ridiculous though when they say that they can't use every single variation of a name (ie: Bubbah, Bubba, Buh-Buh)

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 12:44 PM

Meh.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 12:47 PM

I don't feel sorry for them, they signed the contract and if they were dumb enough to think that the could use their ringnames and gimmicks when they left, then they deserve what they get.
Dudleys were promised their gimmicks by Paul E back in ECW.

jindrak

09-09-2005, 12:52 PM

What goes around comes around...

Think about it.

Remember when Triple A got a letter from the WWE about using copyrighted material?

A few years later WWF is forced to changed to WWE because they themselves were infringing on the world wildlife fund name.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 12:52 PM

Dudleys were promised their gimmicks by Paul E back in ECW.

Well do they have a trademark to the name?

"Promises" don't mean jack in court.

And besides, Paul E. doesn't own ECW anymore and the Dudley's signed with the WWE. And unless the Dudleys went and registered a trademark for any of their names and gimmicks, then they have no legal recourse to challenge this.

Destor

09-09-2005, 12:59 PM

Well do they have a trademark to the name?

"Promises" don't mean jack in court.

And besides, Paul E. doesn't own ECW anymore and the Dudley's signed with the WWE. And unless the Dudleys went and registered a trademark for any of their names and gimmicks, then they have no legal recourse to challenge this.
Sad truth. I couldn't imagine if someone told me I couldn't use my gimmick or name. Fucking sucks, its almost like somebody died. :'(

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 01:03 PM

That's why you should copyright it as soon as you come up with it so no one can deny you the use of it.

Mr. JL

09-09-2005, 01:15 PM

Justin Credible still has PJ Walker as his name that he has been using a lot on the indy scene. Billy Kidman should just call himself "Torrie Wilson's Husband" and he'll be fine. Spike Dudley should just use his real name since he will probably end up working for Ring Of Honor. The Dudley Boyz get the worst of this in my opinion. I definitely believe someone should challenge the WWE in court.

The WWE are a bunch of assholes. I could understand enforcing names and gimmicks upon stuff that they actually created. But doing this will most certainly hurt all of these guys. It is not like these wrestlers will be making millions of dollars but their name value would help them make a little more money for thier families and make their lives better. Fuck you WWE.

Destor

09-09-2005, 01:19 PM

They could just legally change their names. Challenging this in court is a waist of money, Vince and the WWE owns these things. I didn't create the vacuum cleaner but I own one, and If someone takes my vacuum, guess what, its stealing.
(I know horrible analogy)

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 01:27 PM

The WWE are a bunch of assholes. I could understand enforcing names and gimmicks upon stuff that they actually created. But doing this will most certainly hurt all of these guys. It is not like these wrestlers will be making millions of dollars but their name value would help them make a little more money for thier families and make their lives better. Fuck you WWE.

So it's the WWE's fault that the Dudley's and all of these other guys signed a contract with them which basically gave the WWE to do whatever they want with their names and gimmicks?

And if they won't be making a lot of money with their gimmicks anyways, then what's the big deal?

Nark Order

09-09-2005, 01:31 PM

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 01:33 PM

Think about all the money the Dudleyz have already made with the company over the past 5-6 years using the name and gimmick. I find it hard to believe that they are on the brink of starvation right now. They'll be well off wherever they decide to go.

If not they will always have a job at Lowe's or Menard's selling lumber. :naughty:

Mark: DEEEEEEVOOOOON!
Devon: WHAT?
Mark: GET THE TAAAAABB...*a lawyer hands him a letter and Mark read it* DEEEEEVOOOON....GET THE WOOOOOODD!

The MAC

09-09-2005, 02:08 PM

its another move (in part) to make life hard for internet fans and protect ppvs and storylines. They are only doing this because they can.

Cool King

09-09-2005, 02:17 PM

:lol: @ KingofOldSchool.

But I can think of some names they can use.

The Dudleys can call them selfs "Da Dudley Boyz" the WWE didn't say anything about using that.

D-Von can call himself Devon and Bubba can call himself Bub.

Credible can call himself Justin Sane.

Kidman can call himself Billy the Kidman.:-\

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 02:25 PM

its another move (in part) to make life hard for internet fans and protect ppvs and storylines. They are only doing this because they can.

Are you stupid?

How the fuck is this making it "hard" for internet fans?

samichna

09-09-2005, 02:27 PM

omg r u sure??????/

samichna

09-09-2005, 02:27 PM

TALKIN 2 COOL KING!

FourFifty

09-09-2005, 02:41 PM

Any word on if The Rock has to use his legal name while acting now?
Or how about "The Ice Man" Steve Williams?

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 03:10 PM

Or how about "The Ice Man" Steve Williams?

Marvel might have something to say about that.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 03:11 PM

Yeah, why do Rock and Steve Austin get away scot-free in this one? I say equal treatment for all. *marks out for Dwayne and Steven* ;)

Favre4Ever

09-09-2005, 03:36 PM

Justin Sane...........haha, not bad.

Xero

09-09-2005, 03:42 PM

Any word on if The Rock has to use his legal name while acting now?
Or how about "The Ice Man" Steve Williams?
I believe that the WWE still owns the rights to The Rock's name, but they basically just let him use it. I believe the deal is that Vince McMahon or the WWE is credited in the credits. They may have 'leased' it to him as well, I'm not 100% positive.

09-09-2005, 03:48 PM

I do believe that both Rock and Austin own the rights to their names. Unless they sold them back or something.

It's business. If you don't want to give up your things, don't sign a contract saying you will.

Jordan

09-09-2005, 05:58 PM

Kidman should just call himself Sick Boy again, and be cool again.

Mike the Metal Ed

09-09-2005, 06:08 PM

Or how about "The Ice Man" Steve Williams?

Chilly McFreeze 4 life

09-09-2005, 06:09 PM

They may not of came up with them but they do OWN them.

How do you own words? And how does that not fall under Freedom of Speech. Does it make a difference whether its on camera or not? Dudleys and the kid who ran the website should fight this. Thats pretty bs on WWF's part.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 06:30 PM

Kidman should just call himself Sick Boy again, and be cool again.

Umm he wasn't Sick Boy.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 06:32 PM

How do you own words? And how does that not fall under Freedom of Speech. Does it make a difference whether its on camera or not? Dudleys and the kid who ran the website should fight this. Thats pretty bs on WWF's part.

Phrases can be copyrighted, along with creative names. Hence why the name "The Rock" can be copyrighted, but "Dwayne Johnson" can't.

Disturbed316

09-09-2005, 06:33 PM

Costumes? WTF!?

Nark Order

09-09-2005, 06:44 PM

Umm he wasn't Sick Boy.

lol. I caught that too.

I believe he was just Kidman. However calling his finisher "The Seven Year Itch" again would fucking rule.

KayfabeMan

09-09-2005, 06:50 PM

A): Vince is desperate, it shows in everything he does - and all this does is prove it. He isn't making the money off of the shows, so what better way to make up all of the difference than by suing everyone? Deceased guys better watch out, because it it says "Big John Studd" on your tombstone, Vince might say he owns the rights to your gravesite?

B): Why don't they all come together and sue as one unit? I'm sure there are certain lawyers who will take this type of case free of charge until the trial is over. Even if they don't win, it's publicity. I could think of several major ones down south that'd do it. Some of them may have a shot. Especially considering the fact that WWE kept them around just long enough to make WCW / ECW figures of them, and do the ECW PPV - and then dumped them. It's a technical abuse.

This Vader thing in itself is ridiculous. There should be no grounds.

Also, when they're discussing the pics on Spike's site, are these WWE.com caption pics or are they pics taken by fans during his stay in WWE?? If it's the fan pics, they can't do shit. The screencaps, then they'll just have to remove them.

Jalapeño

09-09-2005, 07:00 PM

all of this is bullshit

Jalapeño

09-09-2005, 07:01 PM

a.k.a: Ball Licks

Savio

09-09-2005, 07:39 PM

Bubba will probably be called "BB-Ray" or "B-Ray" in TNA

09-09-2005, 07:46 PM

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 07:57 PM

Imagine you can't say 'get the tables'. It's fucking pathetic. Fuck WWE.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 08:10 PM

Imagine you can't say 'get the tables'. It's fucking pathetic. Fuck WWE.

Yeah fuck them.

Let's all watch some CZW where the REAL wrestling is at!

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 08:19 PM

Yeah fuck them.

Let's all watch some CZW where the REAL wrestling is at!
Yeah... I'm going to go watch a 25 minute epic of Petey Williams vs. Sonjay Dutt vs. M Dogg 20 vs. Teddy Hart, you go watch a 5 minute Carlito vs. John Cena 'main event'.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 08:20 PM

Dammit, WWE never came up with the names of Billy Kidman, Justin Credible, The Dudley Boyz, Spike Dudley, and Vader. WWE is DEFINITELY not in the right, legally or otherwise, for going after the Hardcore Homecoming show. So now that they own everything WCW and ECW, they think they own the entire world and everything wrestling. Way to let your former talent make a living for themselves. Good thing people like Jindrak, Morgan, and a few others use their real names. Does Mero own the rights to Johnny B Badd or whatever, his old WCW gimmick? If so, they might as well go after Mero for using it in TNA, if he still does.

Legally, they own them. And they can get away with it, because who would challenge the WWE? They have money, which of these wrestlers can affort the challenge?

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 08:23 PM

They didn't come up with them, true. But they did purchase everything ECW including the rights to the names. Paul may have let the Dudleys continue using the name after they left ECW but apparently WWE is in no way going to be any bit as generous. Same goes for Billy Kidman and WCW. Like it or not they did trademark the names as soon as the wrestlers began working for them or they did purchase them from the former owners who had trademarked them.

In all honesty, if you're a wrestler and your name is your livlihood then you should trademark it as soon as possible. And if you ever start to work for WWE and your name is trademark they'll probably change your whole gimmick to something else. Once you're done with the company go back to using your original gimmick.

Lastly, I want to say I'm not defending what the WWE is doing. In fact I think its pretty shitty. I was just saying it was in their right to do so.

Well, WCW and ECW can't give trademarks where they didn't belong. As the Dudleyz and some other people were said to have left ECW WITH their trademarks, the WWE couldn't claim them as part of the package.

Plus, many of the "trademarks" are not actually registered trademarks...They can take out actual trademarks, but those would be easier to challenge.

PureHatred

09-09-2005, 08:23 PM

Bubba and D-Von should just put on masks and call themselves.....

... "Pedro & Nacho, Los Hermanos De Dudley"!!!

PureHatred

09-09-2005, 08:31 PM

And I beleive the story is 9 and someone in this thread mentioned it) is that Paul still owned a lot of the ECW guys trademarks and characters even after they left. Thats why he was bale to do things like produce a 'Best of the Dudleyz' DVD while they were in the WWE.

He gave them complete autonomy as far as working under the names with the WWE and Bubba has mentioned in numerous interviews that Paul promised that he would give or sell them the rights if he was ever bought out. But of course the WWE would basically insist that they get the rights to all the name ECW talent in any purchase. So that didn't happen.

Hence, they're screwed.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 08:36 PM

Bubba will probably be called "BB-Ray" or "B-Ray" in TNA

BG Ray.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 08:47 PM

Yeah... I'm going to go watch a 25 minute epic of Petey Williams vs. Sonjay Dutt vs. M Dogg 20 vs. Teddy Hart, you go watch a 5 minute Carlito vs. John Cena 'main event'.

Cena/Carlito > All of them

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 08:53 PM

Cena/Carlito > All of them
lol Cena/Carlito better than Sonjay Dutt and Teddy Hart? Shows how mch you know about wrestling.
WRESTLING does not equal WWE. Only little girls think that, real wrestling fans browse through the indies and discover that the wrestlers in WWE could learn a lot from these guys.
Dude i think there's a new JONH CENA chain for you to buy on shopzone.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 08:57 PM

lol Cena/Carlito better than Sonjay Dutt and Teddy Hart? Shows how mch you know about wrestling.
WRESTLING does not equal WWE. Only little girls think that, real wrestling fans browse through the indies and discover that the wrestlers in WWE could learn a lot from these guys.
Dude i think there's a new JONH CENA chain for you to buy on shopzone.

Shut the fuck up, seriously. It's not about WWE vs everyone.

It's about Charisma vs Technical skills.

Fake technical skills don't mean shit without the entertainment value.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 09:00 PM

Fake technical skills don't mean shit without the entertainment value.
Entertainment value? Maybe Cena attempting to rap to his 'chain gang' entertains you, good matches entertain me.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:02 PM

Entertainment value? Maybe Cena attempting to rap to his 'chain gang' entertains you, good matches entertain me.

Which is why TNA draws so heavily. :)

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:04 PM

I mean, you can argue that you'd rather watch, but what people actually watch seems to be different.

Loose Cannon

09-09-2005, 09:09 PM

LOL @ Sadistic again. jesus christ.

Look, I look at wrestling just as any other sport as far as major/minor leagues go.

If you make it to the WWE, you've "made it" and you are on top of the wrestling world. You're the cream of the crop and the WWE chooses these guys for a reason, even though these reasons may seem crazy to some of us. But, the WWE is the top company out there, therefore making WWE "stars" the best in the world.

It's simple as that.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:12 PM

I just look at it like this: Choreography's great, but without feuds, personas and the like that people give a shit about...

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 09:18 PM

I just look at it like this: Choreography's great, but without feuds, personas and the like that people give a shit about...

You're the type of fan that loves gimmicks and storylines. I couldn't care less who has custody of who, I turn on wrestling to see good matches.
You watched Eddie vs. Rey to see who would 'get' Dominic, I watched it to see a good ladder match.

Loose Cannon just because one is in WWE it doesn't make them one of the best wrestlers in the world. Actually, seeing as how WWE has banned so many moves, it takes MORE to be in any other promotion.

Loose Cannon

09-09-2005, 09:22 PM

notice I didn't say best "wrestlers." I strayed away from that for a reason. I agree, most WWE stars aren't the best "wrestlers" in the world, but is WWE all about "wrestling?"

I think when talking about wrestling companies today, we have to stop using "wrestlers" when rating the stars and use "preformers." It's a beter term to judge by.

Danny Electric

09-09-2005, 09:23 PM

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:26 PM

You're the type of fan that loves gimmicks and storylines.

Actually, I'm not. I'm putting forth an argument because you're retarded enough to make this "WWE vs everyone."

See, I'm less for arguing my own point of view than I am for arguing AGAINST stupidity.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 09:28 PM

So Backyard Wrestling, hey, the way foward.

And wait Sadistic, no no no no no, the guys who put on top notch matches in the WWE with these restrictions, then this shows their class for doing what they do on a limited amount of moves.
Been a while since I've seen a 'top notch' match in WWE.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:29 PM

So Backyard Wrestling, hey, the way foward.

And wait Sadistic, no no no no no, the guys who put on top notch matches in the WWE with these restrictions, then this shows their class for doing what they do on a limited amount of moves.

Absolutely. If you can put on a 5 star match with the 8 moves still allowed in the WWE...You're a wrestling GOD.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 09:31 PM

Been a while since I've seen a 'top notch' match in WWE.

HBK/Benjamin
Angle/Benjamin
Angle/HBK
Benoit/Regal

Hmmmm someone is too ignorant to pay attention.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 09:35 PM

HBK/Benjamin
Angle/Benjamin
Angle/HBK
Benoit/Regal

Hmmmm someone is too ignorant to pay attention.
:rofl:
FOUR top notch match since Wrestlemania? FOUR top notch matches in half a year? And this is the Federation you're defending?

I expect 3 top notch matches every PPV and one every or every second Raw. Not 4 every 6 months.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 09:38 PM

Ummmm yeah.

Your standards are WAY too high.

You're the type of fan that causes a lot of these indy fed morons to do stupid shit like break light bulbs over their backs just to get a rise out of people like you.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:38 PM

:rofl:
FOUR top notch match since Wrestlemania? FOUR top notch matches in half a year? And this is the Federation you're defending?

I expect 3 top notch matches every PPV and one every or every second Raw. Not 4 every 6 months.

You sad it'd been a while since you saw any. He pointed out four easily, and now you're backtracking.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 09:41 PM

You seem like a fan of wrestlers who fly around taking bumps for 15 minutes. And you act like it's "top notch" just because they can do corkscrew planchas and suicide dives over and over again. Yet, that whole match barely consisted of any psychology and decent story telling other than "HOLY SHIT HE DID A SHOOTING STAR PRESS INTO A 450 WHICH REVERESED INTO A DRAGON SUPLEX ONTO LIGHT BULBS!"

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 09:42 PM

Of course. Luchadores=great matches, no matter what.

Loose Cannon

09-09-2005, 09:44 PM

until CZW can draw more money for shows then the WWE can draw for hotdog buys each week, then maybe your opinions might be worth a dam.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 09:45 PM

You sad it'd been a while since you saw any. He pointed out four easily, and now you're backtracking.
He pointed out 4 easily because he couldn't think of anymore. It has been a while since I've seen one. I expect one every Raw.

You're the type of fan that causes a lot of these indy fed morons to do stupid shit like break light bulbs over their backs just to get a rise out of people like you.
I wish there were more fans like me. I'm the type of fan we all know and love that loves good wrestling matches. I'm the type of fan that changes channel when backstage soep opera storylines come on, when I want to see good wrestling I pop in an ECW tape, watch some CZW mid-card matches, some TNA and watch some old WWF.
I also like the occasional deathmatch but that is a whole other matter, that has nothing to do with my love of good wrestling.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 09:45 PM

until CZW can draw more money for shows then the WWE can draw for hotdog buys each week, then maybe your opinions might be worth a dam.

Yeah and 90% of those hot dog sales came from Viscera.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 09:46 PM

He pointed out 4 easily because he couldn't think of anymore.

Wait you said I thought of four easily, but because I couldn't think of anymore?

YEAH.

That makes NO sense.

Much like your little CZW matches.

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 09:51 PM

JR: BAHGAWD HE JUST SHOVED A FLUOURESCENT LIGHT BULB UP AUSTIN'S ASS!!!
King: Now THIS is great wrestling, J.R.! Puppies!!
JR: BAHGAWD, BROKEN IN HALF!!!
King: Who, the wrestler, or the light bulb?
JR: ...
King: ... Ow. That'll need surgery...

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:00 PM

He pointed out 4 easily because he couldn't think of anymore. It has been a while since I've seen one. I expect one every Raw.

No, he pointed out four because four was more than enough to prove you wrong. Then you raised the bar...Yet dare bring up CZW. Sick fucks like you bring on the death of wrestlers.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:02 PM

Yeah and 90% of those hot dog sales came from Viscera.

90% of CZW's attendence is also from Vis. They made him buy three seats. ;)

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 10:07 PM

Sick fucks like you bring on the death of wrestlers.
:rofl: Care to explain that?

Danny Electric

09-09-2005, 10:10 PM

Akio/London?

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:10 PM

Care to explain how garbage wrestling is entertainment to anyone other than a perverse little miscreant?

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 10:12 PM

:rofl: Care to explain that?

People like you demand these wrestlers, who usually wrestle for very cheap, to perform all of these crazy stunts just for the 2 or 3 people in attendence at the show.

Crazy stunts = greater risk of injury

Injury = Pain killers = addiction = death

It's not hard math.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:14 PM

People like you demand these wrestlers, who usually wrestle for very cheap, to perform all of these crazy stunts just for the 2 or 3 people in attendence at the show.

Crazy stunts = greater risk of injury

Injury = Pain killers = addiction = death

It's not hard math.

It even happens to people who don't perform stupid stunts, but when bloodlusting crowds demand stunts, it increases the chances.

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 10:14 PM

Care to explain how garbage wrestling is entertainment to anyone other than a perverse little miscreant?

I'll go ahead and answer for him since he will probably dance around it.

Sadistic: They are willing to put their bodies on the line for us in every single match. I mean how many times will you see Christian get backdropped onto 12 light bulbs? How many times will you see John Cena do a somersault, corkscrew plancha to the outside through 3 tables for the fans? Never. That's why the WWE sucks.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 10:16 PM

Care to explain how garbage wrestling is entertainment to anyone other than a perverse little miscreant?
I like stunts, I like car crashes, I like carnage, I have copies of 'Worlds Wildest Street Fights', I love to watch Sports Disasters, I like police chases, I'm a sick twisted fucker that likes violence and I satisfy this blood lust by watching deathmatches. I don't watch them to see good wrestling matches. I don't EXPECT good wrestling. I, just like everyone else, only watches it for the sick spots. When I feel like seeing a jaw dropping spot I'll watch some deathmatch 'wrestling'. When I want to see some good wrestling, I won't watch deathmatch wrestling. Understand?

Loose Cannon

09-09-2005, 10:16 PM

^ROFL

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 10:19 PM

Wait a minute...is a somersault, corkscrew plancha actually humanily possible?

Either way I'm sure some indy fed moron has tried it to impress his white trash girlfriend sitting at ringside.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 10:21 PM

Combining downloads and sales haven't over a million people watched Bumfights? Deathmatches offer the same attraction.

Loose Cannon

09-09-2005, 10:22 PM

lol what? what the fuck

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 10:22 PM

Combining downloads and sales haven't over a million people watched Bumfights?

Isn't Bumfights just another name for CZW?

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 10:26 PM

Isn't Bumfights just another name for CZW?
So CZW's fanbase suddenly went from 3 to a million?

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:27 PM

I like stunts, I like car crashes, I like carnage, I have copies of 'Worlds Wildest Street Fights', I love to watch Sports Disasters, I like police chases, I'm a sick twisted fucker that likes violence and I satisfy this blood lust by watching deathmatches. I don't watch them to see good wrestling matches. I don't EXPECT good wrestling. I, just like everyone else, only watches it for the sick spots. When I feel like seeing a jaw dropping spot I'll watch some deathmatch 'wrestling'. When I want to see some good wrestling, I won't watch deathmatch wrestling. Understand?

I understood fine before. You're a sick fuck who wants to see people piss their lives away for your amusement. You should be shot.

Jaton

09-09-2005, 10:27 PM

ROFL!

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:27 PM

Combining downloads and sales haven't over a million people watched Bumfights? Deathmatches offer the same attraction.

What's your point? That Deathmatches can't even draw what bumfights do?

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 10:29 PM

I understood fine before. You're a sick fuck who wants to see people piss their lives away for your amusement. You should be shot.

No.

He'd get off easy.

I say that he is forced to do every crazy insane bump that he has ever watched before in a wrestling match.

Get slammed onto light bulbs.

Be shredded with barbwire.

And then get dropped on his head repeatedly by Brock Lesnar.

Sadistic

09-09-2005, 10:31 PM

What's your point? That Deathmatches can't even draw what bumfights do?
Nearly everyone that liked Bumfights will like deathmatches.
Take the show Dirty Sahcnez (Team Sanchez to american), it also offers the same attraction as deathmatches and look how successful that show is.
Guess a lot of people should be shot for watching huh?

KingofOldSchool

09-09-2005, 10:35 PM

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:45 PM

No.

He'd get off easy.

I say that he is forced to do every crazy insane bump that he has ever watched before in a wrestling match.

Get slammed onto light bulbs.

Be shredded with barbwire.

And then get dropped on his head repeatedly by Brock Lesnar.

And then Holly can have what's left.

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:46 PM

Nearly everyone that liked Bumfights will like deathmatches.
Take the show Dirty Sahcnez (Team Sanchez to american), it also offers the same attraction as deathmatches and look how successful that show is.
Guess a lot of people should be shot for watching huh?

Yeah, arguing that a lot of people are doing it is always a good justification.

That's why you'll die a virgin in 5 years after drinking some Kool-Aid waiting for the mothership. :)

Kane Knight

09-09-2005, 10:52 PM

By the way, how IS Team Sanchez doing over here? I mean, it's on MTV2, which I know is a HUGE station and all, but I just can't seem to find these huge ratings.

KayfabeMan

09-09-2005, 11:01 PM

Why argue? Carlito, Cena, WWE overall, CZW - they all suck.

KayfabeMan

09-09-2005, 11:02 PM

Boondock Saint

09-09-2005, 11:18 PM

LOL bumfights, wtf?

TerranRich

09-09-2005, 11:23 PM

JR: "BUMFIGHTS, BAHGAWD!!! How did Jindrak get in here???"

Corkscrewed

09-10-2005, 02:29 AM

I like stunts, I like car crashes, I like carnage, I have copies of 'Worlds Wildest Street Fights', I love to watch Sports Disasters, I like police chases, I'm a sick twisted fucker that likes violence and I satisfy this blood lust by watching deathmatches. I don't watch them to see good wrestling matches. I don't EXPECT good wrestling. I, just like everyone else, only watches it for the sick spots. When I feel like seeing a jaw dropping spot I'll watch some deathmatch 'wrestling'. When I want to see some good wrestling, I won't watch deathmatch wrestling. Understand?

Wait... so basically, you're saying that everything KK and KooS have said is true.

Basically, you invalidated your own opinion. :lol: Moron.

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 07:57 AM

Wait... so basically, you're saying that everything KK and KooS have said is true.

Basically, you invalidated your own opinion. :lol: Moron.

Shhhh...Did you really have to point that out? I was hoping to stretch out his retarded argument.

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 08:01 AM

CZW has some amazing talents in Mike Quackenbush [who is one of the best out there today, hands down], and they've used good guys like Jimmy Rave, etc., but overall, as a promotion, they put too much emphasis on their hardcore / extreme product. To me, it's not needed, but if it's making them money than who is to say really...

Then they're one up on TNA...:shifty:

But seriously, even the guy who likes CZW here is comparing them to bumfights and Jackass--British edition...How can any legit wrestling fan take them seriously? Maybe they have good talent. and maybe there are some legitimately entertaining fuckwits in backyard wrestling, but who gives a shit?

Sadistic

09-10-2005, 10:07 AM

The MAC

09-10-2005, 10:43 AM

they also cracking down on internet sites -striking fear into webmasters

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 10:51 AM

Jesus christ.
I NEVER compared CZW to bumfights, sanzhez etc., i compared DEATHMATCHES to bumfights, sanzhez, etc. What you don't understand is that every CZW show has about 2 deathmatches, the other 6 matches are amazing spectacles of professional wrestling.
Also, you need to take wrestling matches and deathmatches as two sperate things. Just because someone likes to watch Sabu vs. Hayabusa in a barbed wire broken glass thumb tack deathmatch does not mean they don't like to watch Bret Hart vs. HBK in an iron man match.

Sure it does. They're mutually exclusive.

And if you like to watch garbage wrestling at ALL, you need to go away.

Now, for those of you not smart enough to get the connection between deathmatches and CZW, this dumb fuck (while arguing against my statement), has basically made a connection between deathmatches and CZW all by his lonesome. "I never said..." and then his own statements tie the two, making his argument totally fucking worthless.

Xero

09-10-2005, 10:51 AM

Also, you need to take wrestling matches and deathmatches as two sperate things. Just because someone likes to watch Sabu vs. Hayabusa in a barbed wire broken glass thumb tack deathmatch does not mean they don't like to watch Bret Hart vs. HBK in an iron man match.
But you never talk about those quality matches. You never talk about Benoit vs. Angle, you never talk about Michaels vs. Hart, you only talk about 'OMFG BARBEDWIREZ! LOLZ! OMFG GLAZZ! OMFG A GUY BROKED HIS NECK DOING A 1080 OFF OF A BUILDING! OMFG!'

You must not be one of those people.

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 10:56 AM

Wait... so basically, you're saying that everything KK and KooS have said is true.

Basically, you invalidated your own opinion. :lol: Moron.

Mr. Nerfect

09-10-2005, 08:00 PM

I think Peter Polaco should have had a back-up name Justin Case something like this happened. :shifty:

I liked the Justin Sane idea.

I think the WWE cracking down on these guys could be a blessing in disguise. I mean, seriously, who is going to go to an independant show because "Billy Kidman" is on the card. People who appreciate Pete Gruner's talents are more than likely internet fans, who know who Kidman is by image, and know he can't use his Kidman name, and it won't matter to them. Some people might even go to their shows just to support their new identities. Sympathy has gone a long way for Matt Hardy in the WWE.

And besides, I will be more interested in Bub Fuckteree (Fuck-ter-ee, fuck the E, I can see them doing something like this) and Hugh Fuckteree than I ever would The Dudley Boyz. I would be much happier to see Justin Sane at a show now he's been refreshed by the forced movements of the WWE.

Sure, it requires extra effort, but were any of these guys going to set the world on fire with their WWE identities? No. They MIGHT, and this is a very small chance, but MIGHT set the world on fire with their new identities.

I would mark out if Pete Gruner came out in TNA with Torrie Wilson's Playboy magazine spread and started pointing at in and saying "That's my wife". He could actually do some damage if he revealed that Torrie is married to him. She's in the WWE, the WWE ae pretending she's not married to Gruner, etc.

I'm not too aware of this "Sadistic vs. Everyone" situation, but didn't this start out with Sadistic pointout out a Petey Williams, Teddy Hart, etc. were putting on better matches than Carlito and John Cena? How is that a stupid thing to say? Technically, I think they're matches are better. I'm not anti-WWE, but I get really frustrated when they don't use guys like Paul London to their fullest potential. Am I an idiot for wanting to see guys like Paul London and Brian Kendrick cut lose?

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 08:15 PM

Mr. Nerfect

09-10-2005, 08:40 PM

Depends. If someone disagrees with you, are you gonna get bent out of shape? :)

Use lines like "You don't know wrestling," and "only little girls think that?" Are you a CZW fan who will then go on to rant about what "real wrestling fans" do?

You're probably safe if you don't try that shit. Are you going to try that shit? I just wanna know if I should be prepared to flame you for being a 'tard or not.

No...only a little girl would flame someone... ;)

I see now. Nah, I'm not even enough of an expert on your Petey Williamses and your Chris Sabins to argue how good they are or not, so I'm safe. Plus I think Carlito are Cena are quite good in the ring, anyway.

Plus, I think anyone that can put up with the current toning down of the product, pathetic storylines, etc. is a "real wrestling fan".

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 10:16 PM

No...only a little girl would flame someone... ;)

I see now. Nah, I'm not even enough of an expert on your Petey Williamses and your Chris Sabins to argue how good they are or not, so I'm safe. Plus I think Carlito are Cena are quite good in the ring, anyway.

Plus, I think anyone that can put up with the current toning down of the product, pathetic storylines, etc. is a "real wrestling fan".

Well, wrestling isn't just about a 500-move match either. To say someone's a real wrestling fan only if they watch people with a certain moveset, or whatever is just as narrowminded.

I'm entertained by flyers, but I'd honestly rather watch something with some character to it. Don't get me wrong, I prefer both--The WWE would be a better placen if they had a dozen each of Angle, Michaels, Hart and Jericho in their respective primes--But I don't watch just for the atheleticism. I prefer good commentary, good promos, AND good matches. But the important thing is that Cena still has the capacity to entertain...Given most of the fuckers who talk about REAL wrestling wouldn't have given a fuck if not for mainstream wrestling being established by Rocks, Austins and Hogans, they need to really have a reality check.

Judging them on their moveset is foolish--The WWE (erroneously) thinks they're protecting their top talent (Injuries haven't gone down though). People act like Ultimo Dragon would be given a 30 minute match in a main event slot, and told to bust loose. No, but the matches are still entertaining. What annoys me though is when a couple of people get praised for being vanilla high-flyers with no personality or anything--Like this is a real sport. There's legitimate fighting out there for that. I just think it's asinine to deny that the success of the WWE is directly related to the fact that pro wrestling has always largely been about things like presence and charisma, not about moveset. WCW's CW division was not unwelcome, but it wasn't a top draw (Believe me, I wish it was...People like Kidman had star talent, but no place side by side with Kevin "I tore my quad typing this" Nash or Jeff Jarrett). This is one of the reasons I tried so hard to follow NWA TNA, but they keep dropping the ball. I'm hoping their TV deal changes that, but they couldn't even use Jeff Hardy right, and he's just a human spotfest. I'm not instilled with confidence.

Mr. Nerfect

09-10-2005, 10:50 PM

Well, wrestling isn't just about a 500-move match either. To say someone's a real wrestling fan only if they watch people with a certain moveset, or whatever is just as narrowminded.

I'm entertained by flyers, but I'd honestly rather watch something with some character to it. Don't get me wrong, I prefer both--The WWE would be a better placen if they had a dozen each of Angle, Michaels, Hart and Jericho in their respective primes--But I don't watch just for the atheleticism. I prefer good commentary, good promos, AND good matches. But the important thing is that Cena still has the capacity to entertain...Given most of the fuckers who talk about REAL wrestling wouldn't have given a fuck if not for mainstream wrestling being established by Rocks, Austins and Hogans, they need to really have a reality check.

Judging them on their moveset is foolish--The WWE (erroneously) thinks they're protecting their top talent (Injuries haven't gone down though). People act like Ultimo Dragon would be given a 30 minute match in a main event slot, and told to bust loose. No, but the matches are still entertaining. What annoys me though is when a couple of people get praised for being vanilla high-flyers with no personality or anything--Like this is a real sport. There's legitimate fighting out there for that. I just think it's asinine to deny that the success of the WWE is directly related to the fact that pro wrestling has always largely been about things like presence and charisma, not about moveset. WCW's CW division was not unwelcome, but it wasn't a top draw (Believe me, I wish it was...People like Kidman had star talent, but no place side by side with Kevin "I tore my quad typing this" Nash or Jeff Jarrett). This is one of the reasons I tried so hard to follow NWA TNA, but they keep dropping the ball. I'm hoping their TV deal changes that, but they couldn't even use Jeff Hardy right, and he's just a human spotfest. I'm not instilled with confidence.

They're some pretty wise words. And you're right, wrestling needs to have several elemnets to really deliver on all bases.

What really gets under my skin is that the WWE delivers on some of these constantly, but it can never quite get everything right. I like it when RAW has one good match to really carry the show into greatness. Angle vs. Shelton two weeks ago was an example of that. I don't care that every match wasn't up to that standard, because that match covered the wrestling base for that show.

The WWE has cruiserweights, but it never truly covers the base with them. A 7-minute match between a Paul London and a Nunzio instead of an unnecissary pillow fight could go a long way towards that.

Right now Ken Kennedy and Christian are carrying the charisma portion of SmackDown!, while Batista is doing his job at being the megastar and JBL as the top heel. It doesn't matter that the top two aren't amazing technicians, I still care about what they're doing.

The WWE isn't all shit, but when it doesn't quite cover all the bases, eliminating some for others that we as wrestling fans don't want to see (useless Diva segments) it gets a bit annoying.

There's plenty of time for their less-wrestling based crap, but if they highlight their crap with even crappier crap, it becomes obvious we're watching crap.

Kane Knight

09-10-2005, 11:22 PM

They're some pretty wise words. And you're right, wrestling needs to have several elemnets to really deliver on all bases.

What really gets under my skin is that the WWE delivers on some of these constantly, but it can never quite get everything right. I like it when RAW has one good match to really carry the show into greatness. Angle vs. Shelton two weeks ago was an example of that. I don't care that every match wasn't up to that standard, because that match covered the wrestling base for that show.

The WWE has cruiserweights, but it never truly covers the base with them. A 7-minute match between a Paul London and a Nunzio instead of an unnecissary pillow fight could go a long way towards that.

Right now Ken Kennedy and Christian are carrying the charisma portion of SmackDown!, while Batista is doing his job at being the megastar and JBL as the top heel. It doesn't matter that the top two aren't amazing technicians, I still care about what they're doing.

The WWE isn't all shit, but when it doesn't quite cover all the bases, eliminating some for others that we as wrestling fans don't want to see (useless Diva segments) it gets a bit annoying.

There's plenty of time for their less-wrestling based crap, but if they highlight their crap with even crappier crap, it becomes obvious we're watching crap.

The WWE certainly does get it. Seeing Shelton/Michaels was a solid reminder that they KNOW what they're doing...Sometimes. Occasionally I will see a KILLER CW match (Usually on Velocity), and I will be reminded of what there is to like about them. Shelton/Angle was greatness. And yet the WWE flops around with pop appeal. Trying to get people to watch them for T&A...When you can get hotter chicks in better action on other channels. Reality TV shows. Shit like that. It'd really be nice if they worked on the wrestling first. I mean, they've had and lost some of the best talent in the world. They've fired better talent than most of the wrestling world will ever be able to book.

When I first started posting in wrestling, there was a vocal group of fucktards who argued that real wrestling was a dive off a balcony into broken lightbulbs and thumbtacks. Sadistic reminds me of these guys to a large extent. They eventually went away because the silent majority of wrestling fans finally spoke the fuck up, but it's shit like this that can seriously fuck someone up.

Batsu

09-10-2005, 11:57 PM

The question is...what use are those names to WWE except for them to screw a bunch of booted wrestlers out of their ability to earn money? It's not like they're gonna make some "Fake Dudleyz", "Fake Kidman", or "Fake Credibles" like they did with Diesel and Razor Ramon in the '90s....

I saw a commercial for a ECW Hardcore Homecoming recently, that showed the Dudley Boyz...they were advertised as follows:

"Yes, even THEY are coming!"

Mr. Nerfect

09-11-2005, 05:38 AM

The WWE certainly does get it. Seeing Shelton/Michaels was a solid reminder that they KNOW what they're doing...Sometimes. Occasionally I will see a KILLER CW match (Usually on Velocity), and I will be reminded of what there is to like about them. Shelton/Angle was greatness. And yet the WWE flops around with pop appeal. Trying to get people to watch them for T&A...When you can get hotter chicks in better action on other channels. Reality TV shows. Shit like that. It'd really be nice if they worked on the wrestling first. I mean, they've had and lost some of the best talent in the world. They've fired better talent than most of the wrestling world will ever be able to book.

When I first started posting in wrestling, there was a vocal group of fucktards who argued that real wrestling was a dive off a balcony into broken lightbulbs and thumbtacks. Sadistic reminds me of these guys to a large extent. They eventually went away because the silent majority of wrestling fans finally spoke the fuck up, but it's shit like this that can seriously fuck someone up.

That crazy shit is sick. I can stand the occasional "educated bump", but I don't think I'd be satisfied knowing that it was ME that personw as trying to please by nearly killing themselves. Especially when I do not expect that of ANYONE, let alone an entertainer.

Mr. Nerfect

09-11-2005, 05:40 AM

Pepsi Man

09-11-2005, 06:07 AM

This is actually kind of ridiculous. I'm glad now that the real WWF managed to defeat the WWE in a court of law. WWE is just some fly-by-night promotion that had to rely on the overness of panda bears and shrubs.

Kane Knight

09-11-2005, 09:53 AM

Kane Knight

09-11-2005, 09:55 AM

That crazy shit is sick. I can stand the occasional "educated bump", but I don't think I'd be satisfied knowing that it was ME that personw as trying to please by nearly killing themselves. Especially when I do not expect that of ANYONE, let alone an entertainer.

Maybe that's it. It's a power thing. Pathetic wankers who get off on how these people will literally destroy themselves for tiny quantities of cash.

KayfabeMan

09-11-2005, 10:01 AM

But seriously, even the guy who likes CZW here is comparing them to bumfights and Jackass--British edition...How can any legit wrestling fan take them seriously? Maybe they have good talent. and maybe there are some legitimately entertaining fuckwits in backyard wrestling, but who gives a shit?

I don't enjoy any of their deathmatch, etc. type bullshit, and I don't belive that there are any talented guys involved in that aspect of their promotion; but like you said, and as I meant, no one can take them seriously.

That is unfortunate for the guys I'm talking about, like Quackenbush [one of the best actual wrestlers and most adaptable guys out there], Rave, etc. - who worked on the shows, but their matches are often overshadowed by a great deal of those shit matches.

I still laugh everytime I see their DVD's on the shelves at SPEC's, etc.

Kane Knight

09-11-2005, 10:10 AM

I don't enjoy any of their deathmatch, etc. type bullshit, and I don't belive that there are any talented guys involved in that aspect of their promotion; but like you said, and as I meant, no one can take them seriously.

That is unfortunate for the guys I'm talking about, like Quackenbush [one of the best actual wrestlers and most adaptable guys out there], Rave, etc. - who worked on the shows, but their matches are often overshadowed by a great deal of those shit matches.

I still laugh everytime I see their DVD's on the shelves at SPEC's, etc.

That's the thing. I can't take them seriously if they're going to run with promoting this shit most of all.

Hell, I couldn't even take TNA seriously with JJ at the top and Dusty onscreen...No matter how "phenomenal" AJ Styles is....Hopefully that changes now that Dusty's ruining the WWE and TNA seems serious about a real TV deal.