MLB 2005-2006 Offseason Thread

[YOUR Hero]

LOL @ the Dodgers giving Tomko a multi year dear at 4 mil per


pitches a ton of innings every year. 4 million a year is a lot however, but I think it's not a bad thing having him on a team.

[The Miz]

Miz, got a link? didn't see/hear about this one yet and curious to see what the current rumor is.

thanks

Ken Rosenthal, usually reliable

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5189112

[The Miz]

This is from rotoworld

The Diamondbacks are in serious discussions with the Red Sox, Blue Jays, Orioles and an unidentified National League club regarding Troy Glaus, according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal.
The Red Sox and Blue Jays are the front-runners for Glaus, according to an official from one of the interested clubs. The Jays have offered Orlando Hudson for Glaus and might be willing to include Miguel Batista, too. The Red Sox could offer Matt Clement, Bronson Arroyo or David Wells, along with possibly Tony Graffanino and a prospect or two. Dec. 22 - 3:14 pm et

[The Miz]

pitches a ton of innings every year. 4 million a year is a lot however, but I think it's not a bad thing having him on a team.

There is certainly alot of value in innings-eaters, but not ones who fail to put up even okay numbers in every other category. He hasn't posted a WHIP under 1.30 since 1998. If this signing was a one year, one million dollar deal with Tomko being used as a long reliever/emergency starter, it would draw no complaints from me.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Gammons says he expects the Jays to get Glaus. I'd say that would be the bat to put us over the top and make us a top wild card challenger. I'd rather see Hinske/Koskie/Hillenbrand go than Hudson but if Hill can play 2B well, which the team is pretty confident about, then its cool.

[The Miz]

Toronto is one of three teams on Glaus' no-trade list in his contract.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Could always be waived

[The Miz]

Yeah, but if Glaus got to pick only three teams he didn't want to be traded to and Toronto was one of them he probably isn't going to want to waive it. I don't know Glaus personally, just saying.

[D Mac]

Reggie Sanders to the Royals? Maybe they are'nt really trying to relocate then.

[Excellance of Execution]

Yeah, but if Glaus got to pick only three teams he didn't want to be traded to and Toronto was one of them he probably isn't going to want to waive it. I don't know Glaus personally, just saying.


Just a thought, maybe when Glaus put Toronto as one of the teams he didn't want to be traded to, was when they weren't that good. He might have changed his mind seeing the improvements that Toronto has made. They are actually spending money and trying to compete since Glaus went to Arizona.

[YOUR Hero]

Sometimes you have to give up good talent to get good talent. I'd hate to loose Hudson, but it's deals like this that would make Toronto a considerable threat. Like TIoE said, I'd rather see one of the other guys like Hinske or Hillenbrand be moved, but things are what they are...

I hope the Jays go after a Coco Crisp calibre player as well.

[YOUR Hero]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051223/capt.ny11012230320.baseball_yankees_damon__ny110.jpg

The fine art of selling out. :lol:

[YOUR Hero]

Mariners easily lead the league in drug abusers.

Full story...



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Lawton agrees to deal with Mariners</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER type="block" width="1" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>By TIM BOOTH, Associated Press Writer
December 22, 2005

SEATTLE (AP) -- The Mariners took a chance on Matt Lawton (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5511/), agreeing Thursday to a $400,000, one-year contract with a player who will start next season under suspension because of steroid use. The commissioner's office announced Nov. 2 that Lawton tested positive for steroids, a substance identified as boldenone, which is used by veterinarians.

"I made a terrible and foolish mistake that I will regret for the rest of my life," Lawton said at the time of his suspension.

Because he tested positive under the 2005 program, Lawton will miss the first 10 days of next season instead of 50 games, the penalty called for under the toughened agreement players and owners adopted under pressure from politicians.
The left-handed-hitting Lawton batted a combined .254 last season with 13 homers and 53 RBIs in 141 games for Pittsburgh, the Chicago Cubs (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chc/) and New York Yankees (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/nyy/). He was terrible at the end of the season, going 6-for-48 (.125) for the Yankees with two homers and four RBIs. New York did not include him on its playoff roster.
The 34-year-old Lawton, who received a limited no-trade clause, can earn an additional $1.25 million in performance bonuses based on plate appearances and would get the full amount if he has 600. He earned $7.5 million last season, completing a $27 million, four-year contract he agreed to with Cleveland in December 2001.
He is a career .267 hitter with 138 homers. He was an All-Star in 2000 with Minnesota and 2004 with Cleveland. Lawton made his major league debut with Minnesota in 1995 and remained with the Twins until the 2001 season, when he was traded to the New York Mets (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/nym/). He also played two seasons in Cleveland. Earlier in the week Seattle let go pitcher Ryan Franklin (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6225/) and outfielder Jamal Strong (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7236/), also among the 12 players who tested positive for steroids this year.

###


Actually, this is a pretty damn good (and cheap) pick up.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[VonErich Lives]

Talk about Glaus coming to the Red Sox... I've heard a few different trade rumors. One involves a 3 or 4way deal and Manny goes.

Another is Clemment or Arroyo or Wells and a prospect, assuming the sox take one the whole contract and don't ask for any cash.

If they can get Glauss w/o giving up Manny that would be big, then you can still move manny for either pitching or hitting.

[DaveWadding]

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2005/1223/photo/a_damon_195.jpg

[The Miz]

Jays get:
3B Troy Glaus

Dbacks get:
2B Orlando Hudson
RP Miguel Batista

Not a good trade for Toronto.

[McDoogle]

Source?

It's pretty funny how Ricciardi said just yesterday that the talks weren't going anywhere and he had no idea where these rumors were comming from.

[McDoogle]

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20051223/damon_61809.jpg

He looks like an ugly monkey.

[The Miz]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5192008

[McDoogle]

Im pretty surprised he waived the no trade clause.

[McDoogle]

Glaus also may be open to playing for the Jays because his wife, Ann, is an equestrian rider who often travels to the east coast for competitions. His contract includes an additional $250,000 per year to help finance his wife's career.


Friggin women.

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Friday, December 23</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Prior for Tejada?
Dec 23 - So far, no one has met the Orioles' asking price for shortstop Miguel Tejada, The Baltimore Sun reports. The most serious talks have been with the Cubs, who are offering a package that includes right-handed pitcher Mark Prior. Baltimore would prefer Carlos Zambrano because of Prior's recent history of elbow troubles. The Cubs reportedly want left-hander Erik Bedard in the deal, but won't include top outfield prospect Felix Pie.
Cubs second baseman Todd Walker, center fielder Corey Patterson and pitcher Rich Hill have also been mentioned in a deal.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6063.jpg
Troy Glaus (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6063)
Diamondbacks
</td><td>Blue Jays (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tor)?
</td><td>Glaus to Blue Jays?
Dec 23 - The Diamondbacks and Blue Jays are on the verge of completing a trade that would send Troy Glaus and a prospect to Toronto in exchange for pitcher Miguel Batista and second baseman Orlando Hudson, ESPN's Peter Gammons has learned.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5848.jpg
Kevin Millwood (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5848)
Indians
</td><td>Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)?
Rangers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex)
Nationals (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=was)?
Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)?
Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)
</td><td>Rangers pitch Millwood
Dec 23 - The Rangers on Thursday stepped up their pursuit of Kevin Millwood, offering the right-handed starter a three-year deal worth more than $30 million, The Dallas Morning News reports. According to The Boston Globe, the Red Sox have expressed significant interest in Millwood. There were indications Thursday night the Red Sox were trying to arrange a visit for Millwood.
Millwood's agent, Scott Boras, is believed to be seeking a five-year deal.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6451.jpg
Julio Lugo (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6451)
Devil Rays
</td><td>Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)
</td><td>Holiday package
Dec 23 - The Devil Rays and Red Sox continued talks Thursday about a deal that could send shortstop Julio Lugo and possibly center fielder Joey Gathright to Boston, the Tampa Tribune reports.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6558.jpg
Eric Byrnes (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6558)
Orioles
</td><td>Pirates (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=pit)
</td><td>Pirates talking about Byrnes
Dec 23 - After failing to land Eric Byrnes in a trade last offseason, the Pirates have renewed their interest in the free-agent outfielder, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports. Team officials have spoken the past two days with Byrnes' agent, Mike Sasson.
"I really think Pittsburgh would be a great fit," Sasson told the newspaper. "It's a blue-collar town, and Eric's a lunch-pail kind of guy. He'll break through walls for you."

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Excellance of Execution]

Hey VEL, just curious, from a Red Sox fans point of view, which player going from Boston to New York hurt the most:

1. Wade Boggs
2. Roger Clemens (even though he went to Toronto first)
3. Johnny Damon

I'm not being malicious, i'm just curious of your opinion.

[Loose Cannon]

Eric's a lunch-pail kind of guy :lol:

[YOUR Hero]

Jays get:
3B Troy Glaus

Dbacks get:
2B Orlando Hudson
RP Miguel Batista

Not a good trade for Toronto.

I sort of agree.
The Jays do need a legit HR threat/RBI guy, it should have came in the form of an outfielder, as the Jays are heavy loaded in the infield.

However, Batista had no place on the team anymore, especially at the sum of money he'd be making. Hudson was my favourite Jay, that's the tough part to swallow. Not to mention he's lightyears ahead defensively of any other 2B in the majors.

The Jays still need pop from the outfield. PLEASE MOVE HINSKE.
Wonder if Koskie or Overbay can be shifted to the outfield...?

[Loose Cannon]

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2005/12/23/88PHIBAa.jpg

Click link to hear George's thoughts

http://www.geocities.com/bosskdawg2/ted.wav

[VonErich Lives]

http://www.nndb.com/people/380/000086122/burke.jpg

[VonErich Lives]

Hey VEL, just curious, from a Red Sox fans point of view, which player going from Boston to New York hurt the most:

1. Wade Boggs
2. Roger Clemens (even though he went to Toronto first)
3. Johnny Damon

I'm not being malicious, i'm just curious of your opinion.

Honeslty "going to the yankees" none of the above.

Tony Clark, he was supposed to be a force here and he sucked, and they stuck with him and he sucked and he made good money and then went to the Yankees and had a good year.

Boggs didn't mean much, because he was on the downside of his career, was a very selfish player and didn't have a ton of fans after the whole Margo Adams things.

Clemens did hurt, but the pain was already felt when he had those great years in Toronto, which he went to "be closer to home".

Damon, he's in his prime and it's a direct swing, (- for red sox, + for yankees) but that being said, he's 32, and had his best year every (including playing through injuries) in a contract year. I would have liked to see him stay, and would have considered 5yr 50mil, but I wouldn't have given him the contract the yanks did...

So yeah, me Personally Tony Clark.
Most Red Sox fans over time Roger Clemens
Current knee jerk reacion, Damon.

But keep in mind there has been many more, plus I think a few yankees that went to the red sox.

[DaveWadding]

http://members.cox.net/davewadding/TPWW/VELKingDouche.JPG

[DaveWadding]

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2005/1223/photo/g_jdamon2_372.jpg

[The Miz]

We understand what he looks like, thanks Dave

[DaveWadding]

Welcome. :y:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Clemens going sucked the most. Watching him fail in the playoffs was pretty sweet though. I mean the Yankees still won which sucked since I hate them, but he didn't really help, if anything he hurt them. I

The "Rrrogggeerr" chants at Fenway where classic too.

[The Miz]

Your 2006 San Francisco Giants!

Mike Matheny, 35
Mark Sweeney, 36
Ray Durham, 34
Jose Vizcaino, 38
Omar Vizquel, 38
Barry Bonds, 41
Moises Alou, 39
Steve Finley, 40

[The Miz]

It seems likely Atlanta will send Ryan Langerhans to Cleveland, who would then send Coco Crisp to Boston

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

lol damn Steve Finley is 40? I didn't know that. I heard something about the Red Sox being in interested in him :|

[BCWWF]

The Red Sox can't afford to trade Manny for Prior, the offense would be non-existant compared to years past. Losing Damon already hurts.

The other thing, just because the Red Sox need a player doesn't mean they can get him. Sure the Twins need offense, but they aren't just going to make a bad trade with the Red Sox so they can have a center fielder. What bats would the Red Sox have that would justify the Twins giving up the face of their franchise?

[VonErich Lives]

We understand what he looks like, thanks Dave

Damon or me? :D

[VonErich Lives]

Welcome. :y:

Yawn, really, nothing new? come'on... I mean... at least try and be a poster, rather then a poster child.

awaits the PM's.. "leave poor dave alone, all he went through, daddy raping him, mommy beating him, grandma taking him in for the SS money and being born via salad tongs giving him down syndrome, it's not he's fault he's a horrible poster that likes to dish it out but can never take it, likes to make claims and never explain them, likes to say things and when proved wrong can't be a man and admit it, really, it's not his fault"

anyway, back to baseball (but wadding, if you have a chance, don't forget the football thread, where this whole thing started of you taking a hissy fit because I said it was possible that SD could be Indy... and umm, what happened last weekend?.

[VonErich Lives]

The Red Sox can't afford to trade Manny for Prior, the offense would be non-existant compared to years past. Losing Damon already hurts.

The other thing, just because the Red Sox need a player doesn't mean they can get him. Sure the Twins need offense, but they aren't just going to make a bad trade with the Red Sox so they can have a center fielder. What bats would the Red Sox have that would justify the Twins giving up the face of their franchise?

if they delt Manny for prior it would free up a lot of money and I'm sure they wouldn't stop there.

As for Hunter, something like Milledge, Marte and a picther like Arroyo. would be the type of package I'd think both teams would look at.

Twins get young, cheap, good prospects and a mlb pitcher.

Assuming the sox make a sign before trade deal, meaning they sign Hunter before the trade, I could even see possible a pitching prospect tossed in by the sox, making it a 4-1.

[The Miz]

Latest rumor is

Red Sox send Wells to LAD for a prospect (eith Broxton or Jackson)
Red Sox then send the prospect to TB for Julio "May or may not have beaten his wife" Lugo

[VonErich Lives]

Latest rumor is

Red Sox send Wells to LAD for a prospect (eith Broxton or Jackson)
Red Sox then send the prospect to TB for Julio "May or may not have beaten his wife" Lugo

yeah, been hearing a lot of "lugo talk", you know my feelings on him... that being said, I like his stats in 2005, but not before then.

Also, can he move to SS? or does Loretta move to SS?

[The Miz]

Move from where? Lugo's a natural SS and has played there his whole career.

If need be, Loretta moving to SS wouldn't be that big of a deal, I believe he came up as one with Milwaukee and has a lot of experience there and at 3B. He definately has the arm for it.

[BCWWF]

But why would the Twins, with the best pitcher in the AL and one of the top overall staffs, go after more prospects when in reality they are probably just as close as the Red Sox to making the next step.

[VonErich Lives]

Move from where? Lugo's a natural SS and has played there his whole career.



I thought he was a SS, when I clicked on mlb.com they have him listed as a 2B.

But why would the Twins, with the best pitcher in the AL and one of the top overall staffs, go after more prospects when in reality they are probably just as close as the Red Sox to making the next step.

Because I believe he's a free agent after this year? and they can't afford to keep him and 2-3 prospects (2 of which are MLB ready) plus another young pitcher, who doesn't make a lot would give them more players/depth for the same or less money.

[BCWWF]

I just hate the attitude that the rest of the MLB is around to develop players for New York/Boston. Oakland doesn't really help that, but thats basically how baseball reporting goes. Who gives Boston/New York their players next.

I'm not meaning to call you out VEL, because it is obviously concievable and has been talked about, but I really wish there was some variety in the league so that it's not a disappointing year when the Yankees or Red Sox don't win the World Series.

[VonErich Lives]

I just hate the attitude that the rest of the MLB is around to develop players for New York/Boston. Oakland doesn't really help that, but thats basically how baseball reporting goes. Who gives Boston/New York their players next.

I'm not meaning to call you out VEL, because it is obviously concievable and has been talked about, but I really wish there was some variety in the league so that it's not a disappointing year when the Yankees or Red Sox don't win the World Series.

It's not the sox/yanks, it does seem that way because they are the top two spenders in one of if not the biggest TV market for MLB.

But it's the big market vs. small market.

Red Sox, NYY, NYM, LAD, LAA, Phl, STL even SF.

All teams that have money and spend money.

Teams like Minnesota either don't have money or choose not to spend it (which in the case of minnesota it's always said that it's part of both, but Bean or another minnesotan could probably tell more).

What bugs me, are the teams that "choose not to spend" and then cry about the teams who do.

One of the few things I ever agreed with stienbrenner on, if the point of the "luxury tax" is to help even the playing field, then a team should be required to spend the luxury tax they receive on their payroll, some teams receive the tax and don't increase or even end up decreasing payroll, which is clearly not that the tax was meant for.

[VonErich Lives]

I just hate the attitude that the rest of the MLB is around to develop players for New York/Boston. Oakland doesn't really help that, but thats basically how baseball reporting goes. Who gives Boston/New York their players next.

I'm not meaning to call you out VEL, because it is obviously concievable and has been talked about, but I really wish there was some variety in the league so that it's not a disappointing year when the Yankees or Red Sox don't win the World Series.

Also, I don't think (except for their fans and the MLB Advertising sales) it's "disappointing year" when the red sox or yanks don't win the WS.

That being said, with the big payrolls, heek in mind for every Manny or A-rod, their's a Kevin Brown.

[The Miz]

I just hate the attitude that the rest of the MLB is around to develop players for New York/Boston. Oakland doesn't really help that, but thats basically how baseball reporting goes. Who gives Boston/New York their players next.

Why Oakland? Giambi is the only one. Foulke and Damon did not come up with Oakland and each spent a total of one year there.

[The Outlaw]

We don't need to get rid of Langerhauns.

[The Miz]

A Kelly Johnson/Matt Diaz platoon will likely equal his production. If Langerhans nets you David Riske or another good reliever it is certainly worth it.

[VonErich Lives]

Why Oakland? Giambi is the only one. Foulke and Damon did not come up with Oakland and each spent a total of one year there.

But, in both cases (Foulke & Damon) they "couldn't afford to keep them" also, don't forget Tijada and Hudson and Mulder.

They are always considered a "small market" team, which you would think they should have no problems out there, I think because of the choices Billy Beane makes with his "money ball" system, it makes them possible look "more poor" then they actually are.

[VonErich Lives]

hey LC, or EOE (first two NYY fans that come to mind) why didn't Johnson want to pitch to Porsada last year? and think it will effect him that the Red Sox signed "his catcher". Who started his career with Boston 15yrs ago...)

[The Miz]

But, in both cases (Foulke & Damon) they "couldn't afford to keep them" also, don't forget Tijada and Hudson and Mulder.

They are always considered a "small market" team, which you would think they should have no problems out there, I think because of the choices Billy Beane makes with his "money ball" system, it makes them possible look "more poor" then they actually are.

Damon was not wanted back, he had an awful year in 2001.

I'd love to hear what choices you think Beane makes that make them look poorer, VEL.

[BCWWF]

In terms of success, the A's are perennially competitive in the division but they have never really contended for a World Series. I don't believe this current era of A's has made it out of the first round has it?

So I would say Billy Beane has done more to keep his team competitive than to win a World Series. You would have to assume that just one of those players could have made the difference, Tejada, Giambi, Damon, Dye, Hudson, Mulder, Isringhausen.

They are just like the Twins, always a step behind what they need because they aren't willing to spend the money to get it. So while I would rather be a fan of the A's than the Royals, I wouldn't call his way of spending to be perfect.

[The Miz]

I don't know why everyone on this board assumes that the A's didn't get out of the first round because they didn't have the talent, and therefore didn't spend to get the talent. Did you guys watch any of these series? They choked, plain and simple.

In 2003 Oakland had a WS-caliber team. Tejada and Byrnes fucked it up. Tejada made 756738905679385 errors, and both he and Byrnes had the retarded baserunning plays that should've won the game and swept the series. Chavez also forgot how to hit. Macha also completely blew it in the last inning of Game 5, pinch hitting Melhuse, who struck out, for Dye, who was about to be intentionally walked. And then that idiot Long sat there and watched Lowe throw strikes. If any of you watched these series you might realize how good Oakland was and how badly they choked.

They are just like the Twins, always a step behind what they need because they aren't willing to spend the money to get it.

I'd love to hear your in-depth assessment of Oakland and Minnesota's financial situations, and how they can afford to increase payroll given their revenue; including profits from tickets, merchandise, stadium food and drink, parking, and team promotions.

BCWWF > Billy Beane and Terry Ryan

[BCWWF]

So you went on a big Christmas Eve hissy fit making sure we know that we know what I just said? Well thanks.

Billy Beane and Terry Ryan keep their teams competitive, something most small market teams can't do. In the same respect, other small market teams can focus on one season, go all out. Their philosophy doesn't allow that.

Don't for a second imply that either GM could put together a better team this year. Instead, they hold onto their prospects and settle for simply being competitive, barring a lucky break.

[The Miz]

So you went on a big Christmas Eve hissy fit making sure we know that we know what I just said? Well thanks.

Huh? I love how whenever I point out how wrong you and VEL are, I'm either having a "hissyfit" or "crying".

You said Oakland has not has WS caliber teams. Wrong, they have, 2003.

You said the reason they lost in the first round was because they didn't have the talent to move on. Wrong, they had the talent; their series losses were due to awful baserunning, terrible late-inning managing, mysterious slumps by their best hitters, and poor defense when it had been a strength. In all, choking.

You said Oakland/Minnesota refuse to spend money that they are capable of spending to boost their teams to the next level. I challenged you to present any proof or backup to this argument, and you didn't.

Billy Beane and Terry Ryan keep their teams competitive, something most small market teams can't do. In the same respect, other small market teams can focus on one season, go all out. Their philosophy doesn't allow that.

This is right, and their philosophy is right. Going all out on one season rarely ever works, and whether it does or doesn't, you are usually screwed for the next 2 or more seasons. The playoffs are not about the best team. Obviously you have to have a good team, but it's more about the hottest team. Florida was not even close to the best team in 2003, but they had a good one and they started playing their best baseball in September and never stopped. The last few years, Oakland has played their best baseball in July/August and cooled off for September/October.

I'd take my chances getting hot right before the playoffs than building a super team with one shot and then sucking for the next three.

Don't for a second imply that either GM could put together a better team this year. Instead, they hold onto their prospects and settle for simply being competitive, barring a lucky break.

I think you meant to say couldn't instead of could, anyway, Beane does not settle for being competitive. He admitted that last year was a rebuilding year and they still had an 85+ win season. Beane is going for the WS in 2006. He traded Andre Ethier, his best OF prospect who won't be ready for another year, for Milton Bradley, an MLB proven talent. He traded Dustin Majewski, one of the best hitters in A-ball, for bullpen help. He signed Esteban Loaiza to help the rotation. He signed Jay Witasick to a 2 year deal and picked up Jay Payton's option. He has been actively talking with Frank Thomas and is considered the front runner to get him.

I don't follow the Twins too closely, but I know that their offense blew last year and they picked up Rondell White and Luis Castillo, two players who aren't getting any younger and are ready to win now.

This was one of the weakest free agent classes in years, and I think both GM's did a great job putting their teams in a position to win in 2006.

[VonErich Lives]

I'd love to hear what choices you think Beane makes that make them look poorer, VEL.

Giambi, Foulke, Damon, Tijada, Hudson, Mulder, Dye, Isringhausen.

Are you saying they couldn't afford to keep any of those players?

[The Miz]

Jason Giambi - This is really the only case where the A's could not afford someone. Giambi recieved a 7 year, 120 million dollar deal from the Yankees, the A's would not pay any player that.

Keith Foulke - I agree, at the time this was a bad move, 2004 opened with Arthur Rhodes as the closer. But whose closer situation is better now, Boston or Oakland?

Keith Foulke/Mike Timlin/Curt Schilling

vs.

Huston Street

I know who I would take.

Johnny Damon - Don't know if you paid attention, but Johnny Damon sucked for the A's.

.256/.324/.363 (.687, not a typo), 9 HR, 27 SB, awful defense in CF

Damon was not wanted back. He was replaced by David Justice, who had a much better season.

.266/.374/.410 (.785) 11 HR

Miguel Tejada - If the A's offered Tejada a 7 year 700 million dollar contract he would've turned it down. He did not want to be back in Oakland, plain and simple. He was losing popularity anyway with his poor defense and constant playoff fuck-ups. Tejada's future was not with the A's anyway, they had one of the best SS prsopects in baseball (2004 rookie of the year).

Defensively, Crosby > Tejada, no question. Offensively, Tejada > Crosby, but that could change very quickly. He made a ton of adjustments his sophomore year and I see him as a .280/25/85 guy. He only played a half season in 05 but finished with 25 doubles in 84 games which is ridiculous. I'll take the small dropoff in power and OBP when Crosby brings GG defense, as well as the league minimum salary with Tejada making $13 mil and being a team cancer.

Tim Hudson - What Beane got in return for Hudson all had crappy 05's, but the verdict isn't out on this trade yet. Dan Meyer is still a great pitching prospect (at one time he was the #1 lefty) and Juan Cruz can still be a valuable flame-thrower. Charles Thomas is probably never going to find playing time in Oakland, but is good insurance to have in AAA as a 5th OF with Payton, Bradley, and Kotsay all having recent injury trouble. Oh and here's how Hudson compared with his replacement

Hudson (NL): 14-9, 3.52 ERA, 192 IP, 1.35 WHIP, 115 K
Blanton (AL): 12-12, 3.53 ERA, 201 IP, 1.28 WHIP, 116 K

Nearly identical numbers, Blanton did it against the big boys (AL) in his rookie season.

Mark Mulder - Here's what Mulder did in the second half of 2004, while losing 3-4 miles off of his fastball:

5-6, 6.13 ERA, 16 homers allowed in 15 starts

Mulder seemed like he was injured and not telling anyone. I have no proof of that, but it was pretty mysterious how he went from the Cy Young frontrunner to shit in the second half. So Beane traded him. Do you know what he got in return VEL?

Danny Haren: 14-12, 3.73 ERA, 217 IP, 1.22 WHIP, 163 K
Kiko Calero (setup man): 4-1, 3.23 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 52 K in 58 innings
Daric Barton: #1 offensive prospect in all of baseball

Haren (AL): 14-12, 3.73 ERA, 217 IP, 1.22 WHIP, 163 K
Mulder (NL): 16-8, 3.64 ERA, 205 IP, 1.38 WHIP, 111 K

Mulder got to pitch in the junior varsity/National League, and still failed to eclipse (the rookie) Haren's numbers.

Beane completely raped the Cardinals in this deal. And for the record, Mulder has never shown up for a playoff game in his life.

Jermaine Dye - Why the hell would they want Dye back? They were paying him $11 million to K 128 times, have an OBP of .329 (awful for a corner OF), and hit into a double play in every clutch situation possible. Dye was supposed to be their cleanup hitter and he was fucking terrible. They lost the division by one game that year, I can't tell you how many lost games featured their #4 hitter K'ing 2 or 3 times. And look at his replacement, who made the league minimum.

Jermaine Dye 2004: 137 G, .272/.334/.469 (.793), 23 HR, 80 RBI, 128 K
Nick Swisher 2005: 131 G, .238/.325/.443 (.768), 21 HR, 74 RBI, 110 K

Real drop-off in production there. Dye made over 10 million dollars more than Swisher and barely edged his numbers. Swisher put up all of his stats in the 7 or 8 hole all year, Dye put up his at 4 or 5. Also, Swisher is 24 and a rookie. Dye is 31. Who would you rather have for the next 5 years VEL, Jermaine Dye for $55 million or Swisher for $1.5 million?

Jason Isringhausen - Not a big deal, Koch and Foulke did just as good as he did, and Street now obviously is 10x better. Izzy had more days on the DL than saves anyway.

Can't believe I just typed all that, but you are really really wrong.

[The Miz]

Forgot to mention, getting rid of Hudson and Mulder really fucked over their pitching staff.

Zito: 3.86
Harden: 2.53
Haren: 3.73
Blanton: 3.53
Saarloos: 4.17

Good for a combined 3.82, 3rd best in the AL.

[The Icon of Elisim]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Miz again.

[VonErich Lives]

Miz, you gotta pick one side or the other.

You started with "what has beane done to make oakland look poorer" and then argue that only in 1 case could they not afford a player. So, hence in the others they could afford the players and Beane didn't get them, hence using his "money ball" system and making the team "look poorer" if we assume they could afford them, which according to you they could.

The one thing I found most amusing about your breakdown and you pick the situation to suit your argument.

Foulke has a bad year due to injury so, somehow that made it ok because Street came along, 2yrs later an unproven rookie, so they could have had Foulke who at the time was one of the top closers in the game, or nothing, (sorry, Arthur Rhodes) and they chose nothing.

Damon has a single bad season then bounces back.

In most those cases you were dealing provens for unprovens, experience for none.

I'm sure when they let Iggy go and then Foulke, they knew they'd have Street pitch lights out, heck, Street wasn't even the closer when 2005 started.

Yeah, Tejada didn't want to stay, why? becuase when ever a player gets real good and wants to get paid they get rid of them, they go for prospects, some pan out, some don't, it takes a few years for them to "come into their own". So, of course he didn't want to stay.

The issue isn't what he got in return for these players, the issue is the need to dump them, either via trade of not bidding on them via free agency.

That's what you're missing here, if they were willing and/or able to spend the money they wouldn't have lost Tejada, Damon, Dye, Giambi, they wouldn't have delt Mulder and Hudson. It would be a complete different approach.

So, you can keep saying BCWWF and I are wrong all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you keep making our argument for us.

Of course you could try the "you always say I'm crying when I tell you you're wrong", as usually when you say stuff like that I'll ask for examples, and as usually you'll probably have none. Although, it wouldn't shock me if I did tell you to stop crying at some point, you do have a habbit of trying to put yourself on the cross to somehow help your argument. You really know a lot about baseball/stats, but you can never accept that sometimes you might be wrong, or sometimes it's an opinion and their is no right/wrong, that's the only reason I take the shots at you once in awhile (which is no where as often as you seem to think) is you're "hollier then thou, I'm always right" attitude that you try to project, it makes me laugh.

anyway, back to the subject, I don't disagree they got prospects that turned out to be good players, but the issue is, if they had or were willing to spend the money, they never would have looked to make those deals, they would have kept their team intact, Tejada wouldn't have wanted out, etc... etc...

[Excellance of Execution]

hey LC, or EOE (first two NYY fans that come to mind) why didn't Johnson want to pitch to Porsada last year? and think it will effect him that the Red Sox signed "his catcher". Who started his career with Boston 15yrs ago...)
I think it was just a matter of preferance. Johnson was comfortable with how Flaherty caught him and i would guess how he called the game. Honestly, i don't think it will affect him much. How could it? I don't think he could be quite as bad as last year.

[VonErich Lives]

I think it was just a matter of preferance. Johnson was comfortable with how Flaherty caught him and i would guess how he called the game. Honestly, i don't think it will affect him much. How could it? I don't think he could be quite as bad as last year.

I thought he was good the 2nd half last year? maybe, I just caught him in a few good games.

I just hope Flahrety can catch a knuckleball, cause that's going to be his job, once every 5 games, catch wakefield.

[Excellance of Execution]

I thought he was good the 2nd half last year? maybe, I just caught him in a few good games.

I just hope Flahrety can catch a knuckleball, cause that's going to be his job, once every 5 games, catch wakefield.

He had glimmers a couple of games, but other than that, he was a disappointment in my eyes. I expect him to bounce back. It seems all the Yanks big signings do better their second year. Its almost like, the Yanks sign a big player the following year and it takes the limelight and pressure off the player they signed the year before. A-Rod put up better numbers his second year and so did Tino (when he originally signed), Giambi and probably more. I expect Johnson to be way better this year. Not quite his old self, but close.

[BCWWF]

The Miz, you can write as many books as you want, but all the A's had to do was keep one or two of those players and they would likely have a World Series trophy on their shelf. Instead, they have The Miz praising their low ERA's and non-playoff appearances because they are just "loaded with potential!"

[Gertner]

I sort of agree.
The Jays do need a legit HR threat/RBI guy, it should have came in the form of an outfielder, as the Jays are heavy loaded in the infield.

However, Batista had no place on the team anymore, especially at the sum of money he'd be making. Hudson was my favourite Jay, that's the tough part to swallow. Not to mention he's lightyears ahead defensively of any other 2B in the majors.

The Jays still need pop from the outfield. PLEASE MOVE HINSKE.
Wonder if Koskie or Overbay can be shifted to the outfield...?


loosing hudson is gonna hurt quite a bit, batista... not so much, but the jays REALLY needed an homerun/rbi guy

[Loose Cannon]

Yea, Johnson just prefered Flaherty over Posada during the final four months. But the Yanks signed Kelly Stinnett, who caught Johnson in Arizona.

And the A's definately could of won the whole thing in '03 and possibly '04, but like Miz said, they fucked up. I forget what they did in '02. And dealing Hudson and Mulder was a pretty dam good move by Beane. Nobody thought they would contend last year, but they got red hot with a bunch of young guys behind them. Just think what they are going to do in the next four years.

[VonErich Lives]

Yea, Johnson just prefered Flaherty over Posada during the final four months. But the Yanks signed Kelly Stinnett, who caught Johnson in Arizona.

And the A's definately could of won the whole thing in '03 and possibly '04, but like Miz said, they fucked up. I forget what they did in '02. And dealing Hudson and Mulder was a pretty dam good move by Beane. Nobody thought they would contend last year, but they got red hot with a bunch of young guys behind them. Just think what they are going to do in the next four years.

you mean 2years, because at that point their young guys will be proven and might even have contracts up and will want more money and will get traded.

I'm not saying the mulder/hudson deals didn't help them, but if they were willing/able to spend the money they would have kept them. They wouldn't have delt proven guys for unproven if money wasn't an issue.

Also, '04 they didn't make the playoffs.
'03 you could argue they might have gone further, they had a 2-0 lead on the Red Sox, but all 5 games were pretty close and game #3 is when Hudson left with the injury and Byrnes missed home plate and then had a brain fart and went for the catcher instead of the plate. The Yanks then barely beat the Red Sox and then lost to the Marlins, so yeah... they might have won it all in '03, but normally they "compete" they don't try and "put the team over the top" to win it all, and that's due to money.

[BCWWF]

Well to say it's all based on money ruins your argument. What I am saying is that they could have found a way to keep some of the big players while not going over their limit, but had they done that they would probably < Texas right now. For teams like that, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Saturday, December 24</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4057.jpg
David Wells (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4057)
Red Sox
</td><td>Padres (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sdg)
Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)
</td><td>West Coast pursuit
Dec 24 - The Dodgers have jumped to the front of the David Wells trade line, The Boston Globe reported. The Red Sox would likely be seeking young arms such as Edwin Jackson, Jonathan Broxton, and Chad Billingsley or third baseman Andy LaRoche for Wells, The Globe reports.
There's also a chance the Sox could ask for bullpen helps such as Yhency Brazoban or Duaner Sanchez, according to the paper.
The Padres' latest offer for Wells revolved around center fielder Dave Roberts and right-handed pitcher Woody Williams, The Globe reports. The Red Sox are said to have little interest in Williams.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5848.jpg
Kevin Millwood (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5848)
Indians
</td><td>Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)
Rangers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex)
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)
Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)?
Nationals (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=was)?
Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)?
</td><td>Rangers pitch Millwood
Dec 24 - Kevin Millwood and his agent, Scott Boras, met with Red Sox brass on Friday. The Boston Herald reported that the Red Sox have made a four-year offer to Millwood.
The Dallas Morning News reported in Saturday's editions that the Rangers had offered Millwood three guaranteed years at around $10 million per year; however, a second source told the Morning News that the team had guaranteed a fourth year that would make the offer worth more than $40 million.
Boras is believed to be seeking a five-year deal.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6920.jpg
Ryan Langerhans (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6920)
Braves
</td><td>Indians (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cle)
</td><td>Prelude to a Crisp?
Dec 24 - The Indians are closing in on a deal that would send outfielder Ryan Langerhans from Atlanta to Cleveland, the Providence Journal reported. With an acquisition of Langerhans, that would free up the Indians to make a deal involving Coco Crisp.
The Red Sox would be suitors for Crisp and it's likely the Indians would ask for prospect Andy Marte in return, the paper reported.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[The Miz]

Miz, you gotta pick one side or the other.

You started with "what has beane done to make oakland look poorer" and then argue that only in 1 case could they not afford a player. So, hence in the others they could afford the players and Beane didn't get them, hence using his "money ball" system and making the team "look poorer" if we assume they could afford them, which according to you they could.

They could afford them. You seem to think that Dye and Tejada were wanted back, but they asked Beane for money that he had but did not want to spend on them. This is simply untrue, in Dye's case he was not wanted back. Dye was not producing, he was making 10x what he was worth, and there was just no reason to keep him. He needed a fresh start somewhere, he got it and it worked out great for him. Why would Billy re-sign Dye when he had Swisher in AAA who will produce just as well for a fraction of the cost?

The one thing I found most amusing about your breakdown and you pick the situation to suit your argument.

Foulke has a bad year due to injury so, somehow that made it ok because Street came along, 2yrs later an unproven rookie, so they could have had Foulke who at the time was one of the top closers in the game, or nothing, (sorry, Arthur Rhodes) and they chose nothing.

Like I said, this was a bad move at the time. Beane got lucky and drafted Mariano Rivera Jr. a year later. I said this was a bad move, I was just pointing out that Oakland's closer situation is much better than Boston's. I don't agree with every Beane move, and having Rhodes as his closer was one of his stupidest ones.

Damon has a single bad season then bounces back.

What if Oakland traded Mark Kotsay to the Red Sox today, and Kotsay put up this line in 2006:

.256/.324/.363 (.687), 9 HR, 27 SB

Would you expect Boston to re-sign him to a multi-year deal? Kotsay is a great player, he's proven it with San Diego/Oakland. Damon was a great player, he proved it with Kansas City. But there was no reason for Beane to try to compete with Boston offering him a multi-year deal. Signing Justice to a one-year was a much safer and cheaper move, and they got an increase in production from their outfield spot.

I'm sure when they let Iggy go and then Foulke, they knew they'd have Street pitch lights out, heck, Street wasn't even the closer when 2005 started.

I'm not sure if "Iggy" is supposed to be Miggy or Izzy, I think you mean Izzy. So they let Izzy walk, so what? Your whole argument is that they don't win because they don't re-sign their impact players, right? So you're saying having Isringhausen in 2002 would've caused them to not lose the ALDS vs. Minnesota. For the record, there was not a single blown save in that series. Closing was not the problem. Whether it was Koch, Izzy, Foulke, Taylor, or anyone else; it doesn't make a difference in Oakland's playoff campaign in 2002.

The issue isn't what he got in return for these players, the issue is the need to dump them, either via trade of not bidding on them via free agency.

There was no need to dump Mulder, Beane would've been happy with a 2005 rotation of Zito/Mulder/Harden/Blanton/Saarloos. But St. Louis offered a trade he could not refuse. Beane wasnt even shopping him, Jockety offered him an unbelievable deal and got raped.

That's what you're missing here, if they were willing and/or able to spend the money they wouldn't have lost Tejada, Damon, Dye, Giambi, they wouldn't have delt Mulder and Hudson. It would be a complete different approach.

Still waiting for you or BCWWF to show meany proof that Oakland had the money and wasn't willing to spend it.

So, you can keep saying BCWWF and I are wrong all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you keep making our argument for us.

Of course you could try the "you always say I'm crying when I tell you you're wrong", as usually when you say stuff like that I'll ask for examples, and as usually you'll probably have none. Although, it wouldn't shock me if I did tell you to stop crying at some point, you do have a habbit of trying to put yourself on the cross to somehow help your argument. You really know a lot about baseball/stats, but you can never accept that sometimes you might be wrong, or sometimes it's an opinion and their is no right/wrong, that's the only reason I take the shots at you once in awhile (which is no where as often as you seem to think) is you're "hollier then thou, I'm always right" attitude that you try to project, it makes me laugh.

lol, show me where I have dodged a request for an example VEL. Seriously, quote one of your posts in this thread or any thread. If I missed it, my mistake, I'll answer them now. You have really bad grammar and it is often hard to decipher what you are asking, but I promise I'll try if you ask clear questions.

Good to know I give you a chuckle.

[The Miz]

One other thing about Hudson/Mulder, if neither had been traded, here is the list of MLB-proven or MLB-ready starters Beane would've had in 2005.

1. Rich Harden
2. Tim Hudson
3. Barry Zito
4. Mark Mulder
5. Joe Blanton
6. Kirk Saarloos

Can't have six starters, and the bullpen needed no help. So you have to trade somebody. Harden? No, he's the best of the six and costs next to nothing. Blanton and Saarloos had no trade value. Hudson, Zito, and Mulder were the only three that would warrant anything good in return. Beane decided to trade Hudson because he had the highest trade value, and he knew he could survive with a rotation of Harden/Zito/Mulder/Blanton/Saarloos. He was fine with that rotation but got an offer for Mulder he could not turn down. A great young SP to add with the best player in minor league baseball and the best slider in the National League.

Worked out ok for him

[The Miz]

The Miz, you can write as many books as you want, but all the A's had to do was keep one or two of those players and they would likely have a World Series trophy on their shelf. Instead, they have The Miz praising their low ERA's and non-playoff appearances because they are just "loaded with potential!"

I don't respect your opinions enough to give you an essay, but I challenge you this, give me one example where having _____ (superstar player) over _____ (replacent player) in ____ (year) would've resulted in a WS championship.

Jason Giambi, Scott Hatteberg, 2002
Keith Foulke, Octavio Dotel, 2004
Johnny Damon, David Justice, 2002
Miguel Tejada, Bobby Crosby, 2004
Tim Hudson, Joe Blanton, 2005
Mark Mulder, Dan Haren, 2005
Jermaine Dye, Nick Swisher, 2005
Jason Isringhausen, Billy Koch, 2002

[BCWWF]

Any of the players on the left would have made the A's considerably better.

And if you looked at the posts, it's not Mulder and Hudson that I have been focusing on. It's the batters, such as former MVP Miguel Tejada, that put a team over the edge. Sure, Crosby is good, but Miguel Tejada is better. Hands down.

[The Miz]

Any of the players on the left would have made the A's considerably better.

Duh. That's not what I asked you. You claim that just one or two players would've won them a WS, name me one or two that support your argument.

And if you looked at the posts, it's not Mulder and Hudson that I have been focusing on. It's the batters, such as former MVP Miguel Tejada, that put a team over the edge. Sure, Bubba Crosby is good, but Miguel Tejada is better. Hands down.

The Hudson/Mulder stuff was not directed towards you, VEL brought it up. I guess you've never seen an A's playoff game, because in every one Tejada has forgotten how to hit, field, and run. He was by far their biggest choker. 2004 and 2005 are not WS wins with Tejada at SS.

[The Miz]

Actually, not "Duh". Blanton > Hudson, Mulder > Haren

[BCWWF]

Duh. That's not what I asked you. You claim that just one or two players would've won them a WS, name me one or two that support your argument.


I did. Any of them could have been the difference.

[BCWWF]

I've decided to go Miz on ya'll. Enjoy.

Johnny Damon: World Series Champion 2004, ALCS 2003
Avg. 316 HR: 10 RBI 75 Runs 117 SB 18
Mark Kotsay: Missed playoffs
Avg. 280 HR: 15 RBI: 82 Runs: 75 SB: 5
Advantage: Damon

Jason Giambi: Made the playoffs each year
Avg. 271 HR: 32 RBI: 87 Runs: 74 SB: 0
Scott Hatteberg: Missed playoffs, released?
Avg. 256 HR: 7 RBI: 59 Runs: 52 SB: 0
Nick Swisher: Young, but still missed playoffs
Avg. 236 HR: 21 RBI: 74 Runs: 66 SB: 0
Advantage: Giambi

Ramon Hernandez: Made playoffs
Avg. 290 HR: 12 RBI: 58 Runs: 36 SB: 1
Jason Kendall: Missed playoffs 2005
Avg. 271 HR: 0 RBI: 53 Runs: 70 SB: 8
Advantage: Close, but besides runs Hernandez

Miguel Tejada: Missed playoffs
Avg. 304 HR: 26 RBI: 98 Runs: 89 SB: 5
Bobby Crosby: Missed playoffs
Avg. 276 HR: 9 RBI: 38 Runs: 66 SB: 0
Advantage: Tejada

Jermaine Dye: World Series Champion
Avg. 274 HR: 31 RBI: 86 Runs: 74 SB: 11
Jay Payton: Bitched, traded to A's, missed playoffs
Avg. 267 HR: 18 RBI: 63 Runs: 62 SB: 0 (to be fair, included whole season)
Advantage: Dye

--------------------

So there's probably the five biggest offensive losses and their replacements. Besides Tejada, the other four were all on playoff teams and all had better stats than their replacements in Oakland.

They had the pitching to spare, but the offense is lacking. Losing all-stars and winning players doesn't help that. BUT WAIT! They have potential! Just give them a year or two to gel and they will be a sure World Series contender! Or even better, if we let them develop into stars then the Yankees can sign them in free agency and we can start all over.

I love potential!

[VonErich Lives]

Miz, we're going back and forth over the same subjects.

They let/traded all "most" of those players due to money. No one can say for sure they would have won a WS series w/ them, in the same way you can't say for sure that 2003 they should have won a WS.

The fact remains they don't keep their talent when they reacha certain pay level, if you want to blame that on them being "small market" or on "moneyball", you can pick either one.

You keep asking for examples of when money was a factor and I've listed them, you just don't accept them. Apperently anything short of Billy Beane posting himself you won't accept.

You still don't get that their isn't a right/wrong all the time, that an "opinion" isn't a "Fact", but heck, it's the holiday season so I guess whatever makes you happy.

As for the

lol, show me where I have dodged a request for an example

Huh? I love how whenever I point out how wrong you and VEL are, I'm either having a "hissyfit" or "crying".


So, I ask once again for examples of how whenever I point out how wrong you and VEL are, I'm either having a "hissyfit" or "crying".

Normally, this is only directed at me, but since you called BCWWF on this one, you can show the multiple examples of him also.

[VonErich Lives]

The Hudson/Mulder stuff was not directed towards you, VEL brought it up. I guess you've never seen an A's playoff game, because in every one Tejada has forgotten how to hit, field, and run. He was by far their biggest choker. 2004 and 2005 are not WS wins with Tejada at SS.

yes, I brought up them as examples along with Giambi and Tejada etc...

As for Tejada in the playoffs.

he's been in 4 div series.
he had 2 good ones and 2 bad ones.

One was really bad (2003) and that effects his "totals" big time. but take a look at his playoff stats.

2000 .409-OBP, .450-SLG, .350-AVG (not horrible numbers)
2001 .304-OBP, .429-SLG, .286-AVG (not great but nor horrible)
2002 .174-OBP, .333-SLG, .143-AVG (This is where it starts to get ugly)
2003 .087-OBP, .130-SLG, .087-AVG (this one is realy ugly, any injuries?)

It's interesting in 2002, he only had 3hits (2 in 2003) yet he had 1-double, 1-homerun, 4-RBI, 3-runs scored, and also what killed him, 7 Strike Outs.

[The Miz]

I've decided to go Miz on ya'll. Enjoy.

I'm flattered my name is associated with using facts to back up arguments, instead of the BCWWF method, "Nah uh!!!!"

Johnny Damon: World Series Champion 2004, ALCS 2003
Avg. 316 HR: 10 RBI 75 Runs 117 SB 18
Mark Kotsay: Missed playoffs
Avg. 280 HR: 15 RBI: 82 Runs: 75 SB: 5
Advantage: Damon

I wonder why Johnny Damon, who bats in front of Renteria, Ortiz, and Manny; scored more runs than Kotsay, who hit in front of Chavez, Payton, and Hatteberg.

Theres no doubt Damon is a better offensive player than Kotsay, but I want to know if you would've competed with Boston's mutiyear deal offer after the 2001 he had.

Jason Giambi: Made the playoffs each year
Avg. 271 HR: 32 RBI: 87 Runs: 74 SB: 0
Scott Hatteberg: Missed playoffs, released?
Avg. 256 HR: 7 RBI: 59 Runs: 52 SB: 0
Nick Swisher: Young, but still missed playoffs
Avg. 236 HR: 21 RBI: 74 Runs: 66 SB: 0
Advantage: Giambi

Swisher was not the 1B, so that's irrelevant. And I already told you Giambi could not be afforded.

Ramon Hernandez: Made playoffs
Avg. 290 HR: 12 RBI: 58 Runs: 36 SB: 1
Jason Kendall: Missed playoffs 2005
Avg. 271 HR: 0 RBI: 53 Runs: 70 SB: 8
Advantage: Close, but besides runs Hernandez

lol since Hernandez made the playoffs with the 82-80 San Diego Padres I guess that's a notch in his favor eh? Also, Jason Kendall was amazing working with the young staff this year. Blanton, Haren, and Saarloo's ERAs are much higher with Hernandez behind the plate. How can you compare their offensive stats? Kendall hits leadoff, Hernandez was like 6 or 7.

Miguel Tejada: Missed playoffs
Avg. 304 HR: 26 RBI: 98 Runs: 89 SB: 5
Bobby Crosby: Missed playoffs
Avg. 276 HR: 9 RBI: 38 Runs: 66 SB: 0
Advantage: Tejada

This is irrelevant because Tejada made no negotiations with the A's and had absolutely no intentions of coming back. I can assure you that Crosby would've touched home plate in the 2003 ALDS, and wouldn't have made an error on every routine play.

Jermaine Dye: World Series Champion
Avg. 274 HR: 31 RBI: 86 Runs: 74 SB: 11
Jay Payton: Bitched, traded to A's, missed playoffs
Avg. 267 HR: 18 RBI: 63 Runs: 62 SB: 0 (to be fair, included whole season)
Advantage: Dye

Payton replaced Byrnes, not Dye. You don't read very well so I'll repeat myself:

Why the hell would they want Dye back? They were paying him $11 million to K 128 times, have an OBP of .329 (awful for a corner OF), and hit into a double play in every clutch situation possible. Dye was supposed to be their cleanup hitter and he was fucking terrible. They lost the division by one game that year, I can't tell you how many lost games featured their #4 hitter K'ing 2 or 3 times. And look at his replacement, who made the league minimum.

Jermaine Dye 2004: 137 G, .272/.334/.469 (.793), 23 HR, 80 RBI, 128 K
Nick Swisher 2005: 131 G, .238/.325/.443 (.768), 21 HR, 74 RBI, 110 K

Real drop-off in production there. Dye made over 10 million dollars more than Swisher and barely edged his numbers. Swisher put up all of his stats in the 7 or 8 hole all year, Dye put up his at 4 or 5. Also, Swisher is 24 and a rookie. Dye is 31. Who would you rather have for the next 5 years VEL, Jermaine Dye for $55 million or Swisher for $1.5 million?


--------------------

So there's probably the five biggest offensive losses and their replacements. Besides Tejada, the other four were all on playoff teams and all had better stats than their replacements in Oakland.

They had the pitching to spare, but the offense is lacking. Losing all-stars and winning players doesn't help that. BUT WAIT! They have potential! Just give them a year or two to gel and they will be a sure World Series contender! Or even better, if we let them develop into stars then the Yankees can sign them in free agency and we can start all over

I love potential!

I haven't said the word potential one time in this thread, good impression though. I do, however, think this team is in much better position to win in 06 than Boston and New York.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I wonder why Johnny Damon, who bats in front of Renteria [..] scored more runs [..]lol I'm surpsing Damon scored any runs infront of Renteria. Edgar was better at hitting into double plays then turning them.

[YOUR Hero]

Cardinals made a very good pick up in Juan Encarnacion. He'll put up bigger offensive numbers, I believe, as a Cardinal. He's a big stud, but never as of yet, hit 20 HRs. I believe that's all going to change. I was hoping the Jays might have made a move for him. The Jays seem like they still believe Rios is going to turn into a big HR hitter, or at least doubles hitter... Still unclear on that myself.

[The Miz]

Miz, we're going back and forth over the same subjects.

They let/traded all "most" of those players due to money. No one can say for sure they would have won a WS series w/ them, in the same way you can't say for sure that 2003 they should have won a WS.

The fact remains they don't keep their talent when they reacha certain pay level, if you want to blame that on them being "small market" or on "moneyball", you can pick either one.

You keep asking for examples of when money was a factor and I've listed them, you just don't accept them. Apperently anything short of Billy Beane posting himself you won't accept.

lol let's see this list VEL.

I never said money was not a factor for any of the decisions, it has been in 2.

Giambi - could not afford
Foulke - should've resigned, bad play by Beane
Mulder - got trade proposal of a life time, no reason to turn down, got a better SP and two great players for him
Hudson - needed to get rid of a SP and he had highest trade value
Dye - sucked for them in contract year, was not wanted back and did not want back
Damon - sucked for them in contract year, there was no reason to compete with Boston's offer of a multi-year deal
Tejada - not wanted back with postseason play and attitude, best SS prospect in baseball ready and waiting
Isringhuasen - not an impact player

You still don't get that their isn't a right/wrong all the time, that an "opinion" isn't a "Fact", but heck, it's the holiday season so I guess whatever makes you happy.

Both you and BCWWF have acted like it is a fact that Oakland has the money and refuses to spend it. Despite twice asking for evidence of this you have not responded. Even if this claim is your opinion, you need backup to support your opinion.

Normally, this is only directed at me, but since you called BCWWF on this one, you can show the multiple examples of him also.

I know what threads they are in, don't feel like digging through 40+ pages right now. I will get back to you however.

In the meantime I want to directly re-ask questions you have dodged.

1. Why should Beane re-sign Jermaine Dye after the awful season he had?

2. Why should Beane re-sign Johnny Damon after the season he had when Boston offers a multi-year deal? If Kotsay was traded to Boston tomorrow, and put up the same numbers Damon did in 2001, would you expect Boston to compete for him with a team offering a multiyear deal?

3. Would you turn down Mulder for Haren, Calero, and Barton when your rotation without him would look like Hudson/Harden/Zito/Blanton/Saarloos?

[The Miz]

Rangers sign Millwood 5 y/12 mil, Cleveland grabs Jason Johnson to replace Elarton as #5 starter

TOR/ARI trade is now official, Glaus for Batista and Orlando Hudson. ith Hudson switching leagues, I'd like to be the first to congratulate Mark Ellis on his 2006 AL gold glove.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Didn't Mulder also only have one year left on his contract when that trade was made?

[BCWWF]

You are biting your own butt in your rebuttals. Your excuse for just about everybody is "there is no way he could come back" or "he didn't want to come back". It is amusing that you think the A's have a better chance of winning next year than the big dogs out east. The Yankees have a better offensive player in each position on the field. No matter how average RJ, Pavano, etc. were last season, they are veterans.

With the A's it all comes back to the same thing. If they make a run next year and maybe even make the playoffs, they will have to start letting their players go because they can't retain them. Quite simply that doesn't have to happen, and letting your good players get away because there are young players coming up isn't effective management of your players.

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Tuesday, December 27</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4969.jpg
J.T. Snow (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4969)
Giants
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)?
Yankees (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Snow in Boston?
Dec 27 - According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox are negotiating with first baseman J.T. Snow, who could serve as a backup and a defensive replacement for Kevin Youkilis, and a decision may come Tuesday or Wednesday. The Herald reports that Snow is believed to be negotiating with three or four other clubs, and two of them are likely the Yankees and the Orioles.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Quite simply that doesn't have to happen, and letting your good players get away because there are young players coming up isn't effective management of your players.Well for the A's, what they have been doing has been working so far. Once a talent gets too expensive, bring up someone who isn't going to kill you in salary. Even though this has continued to work, is it going to continue to work forever? The A's aren't perfect though, by doing this they've never had a player who has "had it" like an Ortiz, or a Jeter or something. Somebody who is clutch in the playoffs and does something in a big game. That's why they have never won in the Playoffs, and in my opinion, probably never will.

[The Miz]

You are biting your own butt in your rebuttals. Your excuse for just about everybody is "there is no way he could come back" or "he didn't want to come back". It is amusing that you think the A's have a better chance of winning next year than the big dogs out east. The Yankees have a better offensive player in each position on the field.

The A's lineup is much more balanced than New York and Boston's.

You are really quite stupid if you think that because each offensive Yankee is better that gives them some huge advantage. If you've watched baseball at all the last 4 years you should've picked up on the calling card of the recent world series teams:

Chicago: pitching
Boston: pitching
Florida: pitching
Anaheim: pitching

And as far as pitching goes,

Harden > Johnson
Zito > Mussina
Blanton > Pavano
Haren > Wang
Loaiza > Small

Harden > Beckett
Zito > Clement
Blanton > Schilling
Haren > Wakefield
Loaiza > Wells or Arroyo

At this point Oakland's rotation is only on par with Chicago and Minnesota.

No matter how average RJ, Pavano, etc. were last season, they are veterans.

LMAO yes. New favorite BCWWF quote. You know who else is a veteran? Al Leiter. Pat Borders. Benito Santiago. What does being a veteran have to do with not sucking?

RJ - excellent year in 05
Mussina - 4.45 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, but...uh... he's a veteran!
Pavano - Well, he's gotten raped in every start he's every made in the AL, but I guess I can't be too harsh on a veteran.
Wang - 4+ ERA, actually better stats than Mussina/PAvano, but he loses mad points in the veteran category
Small - A veteran with good stats! Yes! I'm quote sure he'll be able to repeat his 10-0, 3.20 in 2006.

Why have good players when you could have veterans?

[The Miz]

Well for the A's, what they have been doing has been working so far. Once a talent gets too expensive, bring up someone who isn't going to kill you in salary. Even though this has continued to work, is it going to continue to work forever? The A's aren't perfect though, by doing this they've never had a player who has "had it" like an Ortiz, or a Jeter or something. Somebody who is clutch in the playoffs and does something in a big game. That's why they have never won in the Playoffs, and in my opinion, probably never will.

How many playoff games have you seen Rich Harden, Dan Johnson, Nick Swisher, Bobby Crosby, Jason Kendall, Milton Bradley, Mark Ellis, Joe Blanton, and Huston Street play? How do you know if they "have it" or not?

Zito "has it", check out his postseason numbers.

[The Miz]

yes, I brought up them as examples along with Giambi and Tejada etc...

As for Tejada in the playoffs.

he's been in 4 div series.
he had 2 good ones and 2 bad ones.

One was really bad (2003) and that effects his "totals" big time. but take a look at his playoff stats.

2000 .409-OBP, .450-SLG, .350-AVG (not horrible numbers)
2001 .304-OBP, .429-SLG, .286-AVG (not great but nor horrible)
2002 .174-OBP, .333-SLG, .143-AVG (This is where it starts to get ugly)
2003 .087-OBP, .130-SLG, .087-AVG (this one is realy ugly, any injuries?)

It's interesting in 2002, he only had 3hits (2 in 2003) yet he had 1-double, 1-homerun, 4-RBI, 3-runs scored, and also what killed him, 7 Strike Outs.

In 2000-2001, Tejada was not a big star player yet so getting anything out of him was nice. 2002 Giambi was gone, the weight was on Chavez/Tejada, both of them fell asleep. It wasn't even Tejada's offense that killed them, in 2003 if he and Byrnes can touch home plate, Yankees/Red Sox Boone walkoff never happens. Not to mention is bobble or bad throw every time a big out or DP was needed.

[Gertner]

Cardinals made a very good pick up in Juan Encarnacion. He'll put up bigger offensive numbers, I believe, as a Cardinal. He's a big stud, but never as of yet, hit 20 HRs. I believe that's all going to change. I was hoping the Jays might have made a move for him. The Jays seem like they still believe Rios is going to turn into a big HR hitter, or at least doubles hitter... Still unclear on that myself.

encarnacion is a mess in the outfield though.

I agree with you on Rios(a.k.a mr ground out to short")

[VonErich Lives]

In 2000-2001, Tejada was not a big star player yet so getting anything out of him was nice. 2002 Giambi was gone, the weight was on Chavez/Tejada, both of them fell asleep. It wasn't even Tejada's offense that killed them, in 2003 if he and Byrnes can touch home plate, Yankees/Red Sox Boone walkoff never happens. Not to mention is bobble or bad throw every time a big out or DP was needed.

Ok, for now on, you just let me know which stats we can count and which we can't, it will save us all time.

:roll:

[YOUR Hero]

Miz, while I tend to agree with you on most things. I find it pretty weak on your end to blame an entire team failing on a bobbled ball or base running mistake., These things happen all the time and are simply the easy things to remember when discussing a lost series. There are so many factors involved that it's really not fair to state they are why things went wrong. Also, it's pretty shitty, IMO, to feel a player sucks and should be traded based on an incident such as that. Tejeda, for example is better than one missed play. I understand Crosby was coming up the system, I understand that Tejeda was looking for huge sums of money, but it's pro baseball and he was deserving of it. Oakland should have tried to keep him.
You posted some great posts in this thread, but that doesn't change the fact that Oakland moves players once they reach a certain plateau, they get good value for them, yes, however, they trade them off because of salary concerns as much as anything.

[BCWWF]

Once again, if you don't keep players who are in their prime, you will remain consistent but barring a big break you will never win a World Series.

It's not a hard concept to grasp, The Miz, they got rid of at least five offensive players who are much better than their replacements right now. Damon, Giambi, and Tejada are three of the top offensive players in the league, and there is no doubt the A's are below par offensively.

[BCWWF]

Let's compare the A's to the Twins. Oftentimes they are compared because they have both been consistant small market teams, but in reality Terry Ryan is a much better GM.

The Twins built a successful team with for the most part average players. When their contracts ran up, Ryan let guys like Koskie, Mientkiewicz, Guzman, Rivas, Mays, Milton, etc. go. Once another team overpays for them, they all do worse on a different team without the Twins base.

So when Ryan lets the more "role player" types walk elsewhere for more money (or trade them) he finds room to sign the important guys, like Hunter, Stewart, Santana, Radke, Nathan, etc.

By doing this, they get to keep the big guns while basically nothing walks away.

Then with some guys, for example Pierzynski, the Twins no longer needed his service so they called up San Francisco. For AJ, they got low priced middle reliever Joe Nathan (who would become an All-Star closer), Francisco Lariano (a AA prospect who is said to be better than Johan at that stage, and who will start the season in the MLB) and Boof Bonser (current AAA pitcher who will be in the Majors soon).

That is for AJ Pierzynski.

Last season didn't go as expected because Morneau hit a sophomore slump, but I have no reason to believe the Twins can't win the division again this year. The pitching staff is as good as anybody in the league (Santana-Radke-Silva-Lohse-Baker, with Jesse Crain, Juan Rincon, and Joe Nathan in the pen) and a batting order that will go Stewart-Castillo-Mauer-Morneau-Hunter-White-Ford-Batista-Bartlett.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I don't know if their clutch or not, that remains to be seen. Until you do something in the clutch, can't really be called though can you? So you can call it choking, or call it not being clutch. The A's haven't had it before - what makes this year any different? Different prospects, better pitching? For the last few years they've great pitching staffs but they couldn't get out of the first round. I'll give it to Beane, he is able to field great teams by managing his money. Some teams can't even get it right with a lot of money (Mets) so I'll give him credit there. I can't dispute that, but there is something about them, I don't know. I'll admit, I'm not that big of a baseball fan and maybe I am just blinded by the media or something. I see them doing the same old shit, "choking in the playoffs"..Like I don't see why this year is gonna be any different?

[BCWWF]

Well I would rather have Rich Harden than a World Series MVP pitching for me in the playoffs, thats for sure.

[The Miz]

Ok, for now on, you just let me know which stats we can count and which we can't, it will save us all time.

:roll:

Who said anything about discounting? I'm not responding to any more posts you make until you answer the 3 questions you've continuously failed to answer.

[The Miz]

Miz, while I tend to agree with you on most things. I find it pretty weak on your end to blame an entire team failing on a bobbled ball or base running mistake. These things happen all the time and are simply the easy things to remember when discussing a lost series. There are so many factors involved that it's really not fair to state they are why things went wrong. Also, it's pretty shitty, IMO, to feel a player sucks and should be traded based on an incident such as that. Tejeda, for example is better than one missed play. I understand Crosby was coming up the system, I understand that Tejeda was looking for huge sums of money, but it's pro baseball and he was deserving of it. Oakland should have tried to keep him.
You posted some great posts in this thread, but that doesn't change the fact that Oakland moves players once they reach a certain plateau, they get good value for them, yes, however, they trade them off because of salary concerns as much as anything.

1-1 game in the 6th, Byrnes makes it home but forgets to touch the plate, Tejada decided to stand there and let Varitek tag him. Its not like they tripped and fell and failed to reach home, I understand that sort of thing, it happens, these were mental mistakes any little leaguer over the age of 12 would not have made. They play with little league fundementals, Oakland wins 3-1 and sweeps the series. Tejada is a great player, but it didn't seem like a coincidence that the 2 straight years where he was the "team leader", he could not hit or field anything. With Crosby in the minors, and Tejada consistently displaying a bad attitude, it was time for him to move on. Tejada was not happy with the teams direction, he didn't want to deal with a "re-building year". His loss, he goes to Baltimore in a year they claim they will contend, finish with a much worse record then the A's, and is now in on an absolute mess of a team and wants out. He's an amazing hitter who has always been below-average defensively and never shown good baseball smarts. I never said Tejada sucks, but I'll take Crosby.

[The Miz]

I don't know if their clutch or not, that remains to be seen. Until you do something in the clutch, can't really be called though can you? So you can call it choking, or call it not being clutch. The A's haven't had it before - what makes this year any different? Different prospects, better pitching? For the last few years they've great pitching staffs but they couldn't get out of the first round. I'll give it to Beane, he is able to field great teams by managing his money. Some teams can't even get it right with a lot of money (Mets) so I'll give him credit there. I can't dispute that, but there is something about them, I don't know. I'll admit, I'm not that big of a baseball fan and maybe I am just blinded by the media or something. I see them doing the same old shit, "choking in the playoffs"..Like I don't see why this year is gonna be any different?

I don't understand your logic. So because Tejada, Byrnes, and Mulder have played poorly in the playoffs in the past, that means Crosby, Swisher, and Blanton will? It's a completely different team than the ones that choked wearing the same colored uniform.

As far as why they should be better this year:

1. Part of their awful April/May was Blanton/Haren/Saarloos adjusting to being an MLB starter. After those 2 months they were lights out. They shoud all be much better in their second year.
2. They only had Crosby for 84 games last year, sure he could get injured again, but you can't assume that.
3. Swisher, Johnson now have experience under their belt
4. Jason Kendall sucked last year, there's no guarantee of a bounce-back but most guys do in their second year of AL play after spending alot of time in the NL
5. Hatteberg, the most useless hitter of all time, is gone from the 5 hole
6. Milton Bradley and Jay Payton are so much better than Byrnes
7. Full season of Huston Street, some early Dotel fuckups killed them last year
8. Improved bullpen with addition of Gaudin and subtraction of Rincon
9. They still have the pitching and defense, with these two things you can always contend

[The Miz]

Well I would rather have Rich Harden than a World Series MVP pitching for me in the playoffs, thats for sure.

Good, you've learned something, Beckett has never pitched an American League game and his ERA was a full run higher than Harden's despite pitching in the NL last year.

You're right though, Beckett was awesome in 2003 and is more valuable due to the 2 good games he pitched. You know who else was awesome in 2003? Esteban Loaiza. You know who else was a WS MVP? Livan Hernandez.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Well the Oakland A's should run away with it this year then?

[DaveWadding]

D'Backs get:
2B Orlando Hudson
P Miguel Batista

Jays get:
3B Troy Glaus
SS Sergio Santos

done deal. I like it.

[The Miz]

Well the Oakland A's should run away with it this year then?

No, you just asked me why I thought this year would be different so I showed how they've improved from last year. There is no clear best team right now, I think Oakland on paper is capable of running away with the West but I don't think it will happen, Oakland/LAA till the end, Texas hanging around for a little bit, Seattle in the gutter. I think Chicago is still a superior team.

[The Miz]

O's sign Burnitz to a 2 yr/6 mil per deal. Can anyone can think of a worse offseason acquisition?

[toxic rooster]

Coming from an uninformed baseball fan like myself who's only ever been interested when World Series time rolls round, the Tribe paying 1yr/$4m-2yr/$11.5m for a starter with an ERA over 4.5?

Granted Jason Johnson was playing for a the Tigers who have a poor defensive record, but isn't that a bit steep? :o

[BCWWF]

Bartolo Colon won the Cy Young, which makes him the best pitcher in the whole American League.

[VonErich Lives]

Who said anything about discounting? I'm not responding to any more posts you make until you answer the 3 questions you've continuously failed to answer.

In 2000-2001, Tejada was not a big star player yet so getting anything out of him was nice.

So, if you're not a "big star player" it doesn't count... I get it, actually I don't. You love your stats but only when they suit you.



1. Why should Beane re-sign Jermaine Dye after the awful season he had?

2. Why should Beane re-sign Johnny Damon after the season he had when Boston offers a multi-year deal? If Kotsay was traded to Boston tomorrow, and put up the same numbers Damon did in 2001, would you expect Boston to compete for him with a team offering a multiyear deal?

3. Would you turn down Mulder for Haren, Calero, and Barton when your rotation without him would look like Hudson/Harden/Zito/Blanton/Saarloos?


1) I'll give you Dye, but you might think while is avg slipped his fielding and obp were still good and he was coming off an injury, they might give him a shot.

2) Because one off year doesn't always kill a player, because while is avg slipped he still had speed, when he did make contact he was still getting to 2nd base, he was still stealing bases, it wasn't like he completely fell apart.

3) No, I wouldn't, Mulder was proven at the time the others weren't.

Now, I'm still waiting for how "every time you point out how me and bcwwf are wrong we say you're crying or throwing a hissy fit". I mean, it shouldn't take you this long since.


I know what threads they are in


I mean, there has to be a LOT of them, since your always right and everyone else is wrong and you're always telling people they're wrong... I could pull all the threads where you tell someone they're wrong or toss in an insult or dodge a question to ask another, but it's really a waste of time, rather then just sticking to the subject "you're wrong... blah blah blah, you always tell me I'm crying or throwing a hissy fit when I won't out how wrong you are..."

You still don't get it and you never will...

Anyway, we just keep repeating the same crap now, so I'll let the others continue this with you if they wish, I'm done.

to summarise, yes the moves worked out, however if Oakland was willing to spend more money they wouldn't have made most of those moves, Why do you think they got an offer for Mulder? "Beane wasn't looking to trade him", you don't really believe that one? do you?

[Gertner]

I don't understand your logic. So because Tejada, Byrnes, and Mulder have played poorly in the playoffs in the past, that means Crosby, Swisher, and Blanton will? It's a completely different team than the ones that choked wearing the same colored uniform.

As far as why they should be better this year:

1. Part of their awful April/May was Blanton/Haren/Saarloos adjusting to being an MLB starter. After those 2 months they were lights out. They shoud all be much better in their second year.
2. They only had Crosby for 84 games last year, sure he could get injured again, but you can't assume that.
3. Swisher, Johnson now have experience under their belt
4. Jason Kendall sucked last year, there's no guarantee of a bounce-back but most guys do in their second year of AL play after spending alot of time in the NL
5. Hatteberg, the most useless hitter of all time, is gone from the 5 hole
6. Milton Bradley and Jay Payton are so much better than Byrnes
7. Full season of Huston Street, some early Dotel fuckups killed them last year
8. Improved bullpen with addition of Gaudin and subtraction of Rincon
9. They still have the pitching and defense, with these two things you can always contend


lol improved bullpen with the addiiton of Gaudin? The Gaudin that couldn't get a single guy out? gimme a break.

[Adder]

Oakland gave up prospects to get a volatile Milton Bradley. Goes against everything they've been doing over the last decade or whatever. Especially considering they didn't get rid of a higher priced player upon acquiring him. Hell, they went and added to the payroll beyond that with Loaiza and is trying to land the Big Hurt.

[RoXer]

I want to defend the A's, but it's hard to remember what really happened and whats happening in my MVP Dynasty :(

[Excellance of Execution]

I'm actually surprised the A's resigned Chavez a couple years back. They must not have a good 3rd base prospect in the minors.

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Wednesday, December 28</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5298.jpg
Joe Randa (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5298)
Padres
</td><td>Pirates (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=pit)
</td><td>Bucs, Randa close
Dec 28 - The Pirates are closing in on a contract with free-agent third baseman Joe Randa, reports ESPN.com Insider Jerry Crasnick. The Pirates have been looking for a stabilizing influence at third base after losing out to the Dodgers in a bid to sign Bill Mueller. Randa will slide in at third base and allow manager Jim Tracy to use Freddy Sanchez in a utility role.
Randa, 36, hit .276 with 17 homers and 68 RBI for Cincinnati and San Diego in 2005.

</td></tr><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Tuesday, December 27</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4969.jpg
J.T. Snow (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4969)
Giants
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)?
Yankees (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Snow in Boston?
Dec 27 - According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox are negotiating with first baseman J.T. Snow, who could serve as a backup and a defensive replacement for Kevin Youkilis, and a decision may come Tuesday or Wednesday. The Herald reports that Snow is believed to be negotiating with three or four other clubs, and two of them are likely the Yankees and the Orioles.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5061.jpg
Jeromy Burnitz (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5061)
Cubs
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
</td><td>Bound for Baltimore?
Dec 27 - The Baltimore Sun is reporting that free-agent outfielder Jeromy Burnitz and the Orioles are closing in on a two-year, $12 million contract that could be finalized by the end of this week.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6225.jpg
Ryan Franklin (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6225)
Mariners
</td><td>Pirates (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=pit)?
Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
Royals (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan)?
Nationals (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=was)?
Giants (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sfo)?
Rangers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex)?
Diamondbacks (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=ari)?
Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
</td><td>Franklin generating interest
Dec 27 - Ryan Franklin, who became a free agent last week when Seattle declined to tender him a contract, continues to attract interest from teams in the market for a back-end-of-the-rotation starter, reports ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. Agent Jeff Frye has been using the recent deals signed by Jason Johnson, Brett Tomko and Scott Elarton as a framework in Franklin's talks with clubs. Franklin has a 23-44 record over the past three seasons, but a lower ERA (4.49) and more innings pitched (603) than any of those three starters. Tomko signed a two-year, $8.75 million deal with the Dodgers last week, while Elarton agreed to a two-year, $8 million contract with Kansas City. Cleveland signed Johnson for one year and $4 million on Monday.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Adder]

Garland re-signed with the WSOX today.



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>White Sox sign Garland to three-year, $29 million contract</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>December 28, 2005
CHICAGO (AP) -- Pitcher Jon Garland (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6396/) agreed to a three-year, $29 million contract Wednesday with the 2005 World Series champion Chicago White Sox (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chw/). Garland, who was eligible to become a free agent after the 2006 season, will receive $7 million next year, $10 million in 2007 and $12 million in 2008, the White Sox said in a statement.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqiUSVyk2DTkY.pQeWjLngURvLYF?slug=ap-whitesox-garland&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Adder]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Report: Palmeiro still not sure why he tested positive</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>December 28, 2005

NEW YORK (AP) -- Free-agent first baseman Rafael Palmeiro (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/3897/) still isn't sure why he tested positive for steroids, he told The New York Times for a story published Wednesday. The 41-year-old Palmeiro was suspended in August for 10 days by Major League Baseball. His steroid test in May came up positive -- just six weeks after he testified in Congress that he had never taken the performance-enhancing drugs.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AroADoqtodcAwUxKAHxns9cRvLYF?slug=ap-palmeiro-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Adder]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>

Former star reliever arrested on robbery charges
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>December 28, 2005</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

PALM BEACH GARDENS, Fla. (AP) -- Jeff Reardon, one of the top relief pitchers in baseball history, was released on $5,000 bail after his arrest on charges of robbing a jewelry store.
The 50-year-old former pitcher apologized to officers and blamed his actions on medication he is taking for depression, police said. He was released Tuesday night, with his arraignment set for Jan. 27.
Reardon, who retired in 1994 and ranks sixth in career saves, walked into Hamilton Jewelers at the Gardens Mall on Monday and handed an employee a note saying he had a gun and the store was being robbed, police said.
He fled the store with an undisclosed amount of cash. Police found him at a nearby restaurant, recovered the stolen money and charged him with armed robbery. Lt. David O'Neill said Reardon didn't have a gun and offered no resistance when he was handcuffed.
"He said it was the medication that made him do it and that he was sorry," O'Neill said. He said Reardon has lived in the city for more than 20 years and has never caused problems. Reardon's attorney, Mitchell Beers, said the former pitcher had a 20-year-old son who died of a drug overdose in February 2004, which has been "very difficult for him and his family," and has been on medication for depression. Reardon, who is married and has two other children, also underwent heart angioplasty last week and has been taking medication for that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Atfzv4t6o2CLEhLdsJPdZNIRvLYF?slug=ap-reardonarrested&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Joey Slugs]

Garland re-signed with the WSOX today.



<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="yspsctnhdln">White Sox sign Garland to three-year, $29 million contract</td></tr><tr><td height="7"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td></tr></tbody></table><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>December 28, 2005
CHICAGO (AP) -- Pitcher Jon Garland (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6396/) agreed to a three-year, $29 million contract Wednesday with the 2005 World Series champion Chicago White Sox (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chw/). Garland, who was eligible to become a free agent after the 2006 season, will receive $7 million next year, $10 million in 2007 and $12 million in 2008, the White Sox said in a statement.
</td></tr></tbody></table>


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqiUSVyk2DTkY.pQeWjLngURvLYF?slug=ap-whitesox-garland&prov=ap&type=lgns

Told ya'll that he would resign.

[Joey Slugs]

White Sox title AP's sports story of year (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051227&content_id=1287497&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

[VonErich Lives]

Yeah, but if Glaus got to pick only three teams he didn't want to be traded to and Toronto was one of them he probably isn't going to want to waive it. I don't know Glaus personally, just saying.

It's reported he changed his mind due to their moves this offseason but also due to concerns he had over their turf, but he spoke with current teammates who had played there and they assued him it was ok. (I'd think he'd be more worried about the Turf if he played OF, unless he was worried about how the ball hops)

[DaveWadding]

D'Backs sign Eric "Where's the bag?" Byrnes to a 1 yr/$2.2 mil contract to start in CF :'(

[RoXer]

:love:

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Thursday, December 29</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/7043.jpg
Jose Contreras (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7043)
White Sox
</td><td> </td><td>Position of strength
Dec 29 - With six starters in hand, White Sox GM Kenny Williams could dangle Jose Contreras as trade bait, The Chicago Tribune reports. "At this point, Jose is the only question mark," Williams told the newspaper. "I would prefer to keep all five [starting pitchers] and allow Brandon [McCarthy] more time to get his core stronger, gain more weight and add a little more experience as insurance to one of the [other] five guys going down.
"On the other hand, we have next year's rotation through [2007] combined with talented kids coming along, so if someone wants to present us with [a trade] offer we can't refuse, we'll listen."

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5132.jpg
Manny Ramirez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5132)
Red Sox
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)?
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
</td><td>Some hurdles to clear
Dec 29 - The Red Sox have offered Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement to the Orioles for shortstop Miguel Tejada, but there are several possible deal killers, The Boston Globe reports. Balimore is largely opposed to dealing Tejada to an AL East team, Ramirez and Clement are owed approximately $22 million more in guaranteed money than Tejada and Ramirez would have to approve a move to Baltimore.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6558.jpg
Eric Byrnes (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6558)
Orioles
</td><td>Diamondbacks (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=ari)
Pirates (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=pit)
</td><td>Byrnes to join D-Backs
Dec 29 - Eric Byrnes has agreed to what is believed to be a one-year, $2.2 million deal with the Diamondbacks, The Arizona Republic reports. He will undergo a physical Thursday in Phoenix. Byrnes is expected to play center field while prospect Chris Young continues to develop.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6237.jpg
Byung-Hyun Kim (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6237)
Rockies
</td><td>Rockies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=col)
</td><td>Rockies to re-sign Kim
Dec 29 - The Rockies have worked out the parameters of a one-year contract to re-sign pitcher Byung-Hyun Kim, the Rocky Mountain News reports. Kim is expected to fill the fourth spot in the rotation.
</td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
White Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Tejada to Boston?
Dec 28 - The Orioles are seriously weighing a proposal from the Red Sox of Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement for Miguel Tejada, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports. Baltimore will weigh other discussions --Philadelphia, the White Sox and Houston are also in on Tejada -- and decide early next week which way to go.
They want a star in return for Tejada. Ramirez is better suited for Camden Yards. Tejada's agents are pushing for Boston so he can be united with good friend David Ortiz.
So far, no one has met the Orioles' asking price for Tejada, The Baltimore Sun reports. The Cubs are offering a package that includes right-handed pitcher Mark Prior. Baltimore would prefer Carlos Zambrano because of Prior's recent history of elbow troubles.
The Cubs reportedly want left-hander Erik Bedard in the deal, but won't include top outfield prospect Felix Pie.
Cubs second baseman Todd Walker, center fielder Corey Patterson and pitcher Rich Hill have also been mentioned in a deal.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[VonErich Lives]

BH Kim was with the Rockies last season, couldn't espn find a pic with a rockies hat on?

[The Miz]

So, if you're not a "big star player" it doesn't count... I get it, actually I don't. You love your stats but only when they suit you.

Do you think it's not a coincidence that once the weight was on his shoulders he screwed up? I never said his 2000-2001 stats didn't count. In a postseason series you get 20-30 AB's right? That's not a big enough sample size to judge someone's performance. Slumps happen, I can deal with that. My main qualms were with his fielding and mental mistakes. Joe Crede was one of the streakiest hitters in MLB last year, and he happened to hit a hot streak in the playoffs. Doesn't make him "clutch" or somebody who turns it on during playoff time, just like it doesn't mean A-Rod is a choker because he didn't do anything in 20 AB's.


1) I'll give you Dye, but you might think while is avg slipped his fielding and obp were still good and he was coming off an injury, they might give him a shot.

See this is what you do VEL, you make an initial statement that you know nothing about and have done no research on ("They should've resigned Dye" or going back "Hafner has worse stats than Ortiz") and when I show you where you're wrong, you ignore it and argue other points that you can put up more of a fight in (Why Tejada left is debateable). Then when I ask you 2 or more times for a response about your initial wrongness that's when you concede. You knew nothing about Dye and the season he had, you just knew he was a big name player and ESPN tells you that Oakland doesn't resign their best players.

Also, his OBP was good? In what league is .329 a good OBP? You know the league average is around .350 right?

Oh, I see, it's because of the injury he had in 2003 that he sucked in 2004. My mistake, Billy's mistake, he deserved a multi year deal.

2) Because one off year doesn't always kill a player, because while is avg slipped he still had speed, when he did make contact he was still getting to 2nd base, he was still stealing bases, it wasn't like he completely fell apart.

Ok, so maybe you sign him to a 1 year/1 mil dollar deal and see if he can bounce back. But Boston offers 4 years/9 mil per. What's the point of trying to compete with that?

I'm still waiting to hear if VEL the GM re-signs Kotsay to a 3 or 4 year deal if gets traded to Boston and puts up the exact numbers Damon did in 2001.

3) No, I wouldn't, Mulder was proven at the time the others weren't.

Glad you're not a GM of my team then. Sometimes you have to trade proven for unproven, especially when the proven loses 4 miles off of his fastball and has an ERA of over 6 in the second half. It's not like Haren and Calero are 19 year old A prospects that they think might be good in 4 years, these were guys who had performed well at the minor league level, the major league level, and in Haren's case, the WS level. Barton may or may not pan out, he has shown patience and understanding of hitting that few top prospects ever have, but even if he doesn't, Calero/Haren still wins the trade in Beane's favor.


Now, I'm still waiting for how "every time you point out how me and bcwwf are wrong we say you're crying or throwing a hissy fit". I mean, it shouldn't take you this long since.

I mean, there has to be a LOT of them, since your always right and everyone else is wrong and you're always telling people they're wrong... I could pull all the threads where you tell someone they're wrong or toss in an insult or dodge a question to ask another, but it's really a waste of time, rather then just sticking to the subject "you're wrong... blah blah blah, you always tell me I'm crying or throwing a hissy fit when I won't out how wrong you are..."

Be patient. I was hoping these "examples that I always failed to give" were going to be about baseball, and not stupid internet insults. But I'll find it for you if it'll really make you happy.

to summarise, yes the moves worked out, however if Oakland was willing to spend more money they wouldn't have made most of those moves, Why do you think they got an offer for Mulder? "Beane wasn't looking to trade him", you don't really believe that one? do you?

Do you have any reason to believe that Beane was? No? Ok.

[The Miz]

lol improved bullpen with the addiiton of Gaudin? The Gaudin that couldn't get a single guy out? gimme a break.

Hoe many games did Gaudin pitch for you? 4? Nice sample size. He still has nasty stuff and is an improvement over Rincon or Yabu. He might start the season in AAA but he's as good as an 11th/12th pitcher you'll find.

[VonErich Lives]

Miz Kid, you're a broken record, you keep saying the same things, you double talk yourself into a corner, you love quoting stats but only when the sample suits you or you mold it to suit you, like Tejada has 2 good years and 2 bad years in the playoffs, but you ignore the 2 good ones because "he had Giambi", so I'm going to address this post and then I'm done with you on this subject, and you can take it up with BCWWF, Hero and whoever else wants to keep going on this.

Do you think it's not a coincidence that once the weight was on his shoulders he screwed up? I never said his 2000-2001 stats didn't count. In a postseason series you get 20-30 AB's right? That's not a big enough sample size to judge someone's performance. Slumps happen, I can deal with that. My main qualms were with his fielding and mental mistakes. Joe Crede was one of the streakiest hitters in MLB last year, and he happened to hit a hot streak in the playoffs. Doesn't make him "clutch" or somebody who turns it on during playoff time, just like it doesn't mean A-Rod is a choker because he didn't do anything in 20 AB's.

Post season and "clutch" chances are few and far between, so yes you have to use a "small sample" to go off, you don't get from most players 100-200 AB's in a post season to judge them on.




See this is what you do VEL, you make an initial statement that you know nothing about and have done no research on ("They should've resigned Dye" or going back "Hafner has worse stats than Ortiz") and when I show you where you're wrong, you ignore it and argue other points that you can put up more of a fight in (Why Tejada left is debateable). Then when I ask you 2 or more times for a response about your initial wrongness that's when you concede. You knew nothing about Dye and the season he had, you just knew he was a big name player and ESPN tells you that Oakland doesn't resign their best players.


Actually No. BCWWF brought him up, he wasn't on my original list and when you started addressing him and me at the same time with the same questions I combined our responses into my post.



Also, his OBP was good? In what league is .329 a good OBP? You know the league average is around .350 right?

Oh, I see, it's because of the injury he had in 2003 that he sucked in 2004. My mistake, Billy's mistake, he deserved a multi year deal.



Ok, so maybe you sign him to a 1 year/1 mil dollar deal and see if he can bounce back. But Boston offers 4 years/9 mil per. What's the point of trying to compete with that?

Are you refering to Dye or Damon? The point is he had an off year, was one of the top CF's in the league and you build a team by keeping talent.



I'm still waiting to hear if VEL the GM re-signs Kotsay to a 3 or 4 year deal if gets traded to Boston and puts up the exact numbers Damon did in 2001.


VEL the GM, cute, Miz-Kid or do you prefer "The Wiz"?

Anyway, umm, yeah... cause Kotsay and Damon's stats are sooooooo similar... :roll:


Glad you're not a GM of my team then. Sometimes you have to trade proven for unproven, especially when the proven loses 4 miles off of his fastball and has an ERA of over 6 in the second half. It's not like Haren and Calero are 19 year old A prospects that they think might be good in 4 years, these were guys who had performed well at the minor league level, the major league level, and in Haren's case, the WS level. Barton may or may not pan out, he has shown patience and understanding of hitting that few top prospects ever have, but even if he doesn't, Calero/Haren still wins the trade in Beane's favor.


Key word there "Sometimes" this is what Oakland does ALL THE TIME!


Be patient. I was hoping these "examples that I always failed to give" were going to be about baseball, and not stupid internet insults. But I'll find it for you if it'll really make you happy.


I really could care less, just found it funny how you made a claim, ignored the request for backup, then when pushed said "I know where they are, I just don't have time... blah, blah, blah"... Really, I could care less, I'm sure I've called you more then a few names over time and you've done the same, don't try and be a Wadding, you're better then that.

No, what you do in these discussions is pick the examples that suit you and talk about facts while ignoring them. You bark at me for after dicusion choosing to agree with you on Dye, yet ignore the fact that you're focusing on Dye and Damon's "1 bad year" while doging Giambi, admitting we're correct in Foulke and ignoring the Tejada wanted out because of their previous actions, it wasn't that they didn't try to keep him because of 2 bad post seasons.


Do you have any reason to believe that Beane was? No? Ok.

The same reasons you have to believe that Beane was never shopping him.

ok, reply if you wish, I'm done on this it's the same crap again and again.

[VonErich Lives]

One last "note", if I was the GM of "your team", you'd still have A-rod and Randy Johnson, among others and possible even a WS win.

[Excellance of Execution]

Vel and Miz, I've been reading your discussions and i see both of your points of view. I just don't see how Oakland plans on ever getting over the hump and winning the WS when they very rarely resign their stars. I think the only one the ever resigned was Chavez. It's almost like they are rebuilding all the time. They develop their farm and when they turn into stars, they trade them and start over again. I give them one thing, they produce some very good talent. I would imagine they must generate some decent revenue, since they are in California, so i can't seem to understand why they don't spend some money and resign some of their stars? I betcha, if they did that they probably would have won a world series in the last five years. They were at the brink when they had Giambi. I think if they could of resigned him, they would of won it the next year. Just my .02 though.

[YOUR Hero]

The only thing I would add about Oakland is this. Teams, I believe do have stigmas. Like the Boston curse for example. Another is Atlanta choking in the playoffs year after year after year. Oakland suffers from this too. I believe it's because they trade off their core players so much.

[YOUR Hero]

:rant: @ EofE

[Excellance of Execution]

:rant: @ EofE
Beat you by 2 mins Hero:lol:

[VonErich Lives]

just heard a rumor on the radio, so no link.

Manny to the Mets, I think they said Kris Benson to Baltimoe and Tejada to the Red Sox.

I'm guessing that there are prospects involved, because Benson doesn't seem to be near the league of the other two, unless Baltimore is just going to dump the payroll.

There's also talk the sox aren't going to persue a big free agent to fill Damon's slot, and save some money this year, let the young pitchers get a year under their feet and then make a big run for Jones or Hunter next offseason... I can't see why Atlanta would let Jones get away, but I could see the Twins (sorry BCWWF) getting outbit for Hunter, or if they have an off year this year, dealing him before the deadline.

[Gertner]

Hoe many games did Gaudin pitch for you? 4? Nice sample size. He still has nasty stuff and is an improvement over Rincon or Yabu. He might start the season in AAA but he's as good as an 11th/12th pitcher you'll find.

and he was pretty bad for us. christ we traded friggen kevin cash for him.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

The Red Sox really need to get Tejada now, or otherwise there will be all types of trouble much like the 2004 season. I don't see the current "system" of GMs pulling through with a blockbuster trade like Theo did to save the season.

[OssMan]

Mets signing Chad Bradford is actually a good move. Didn't
know the Mets could make good moves.

[YOUR Hero]

Tejada is at it again...


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Tejada upset with Orioles' lack of action</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" height="1" type="block"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>By DIONISIO SOLDEVILA, Associated Press Writer
December 29, 2005

SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic (AP) -- Disgruntled shortstop Miguel Tejada (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5888/) is "more upset" with the Baltimore Orioles (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/bal/) because they haven't gotten stronger in the offseason than with the team not fulfilling his trade request. "Now, I am more upset than when I requested the trade because it's been a month and they haven't done anything," Tejada told The Associated Press on Thursday.

Tejada, who is entering the third year of a $72 million, six-year contract, said three weeks ago that he wanted a "change of scenery."

On Thursday, the disgruntled All-Star said he was upset by the Orioles' failure to make trades that would strengthen the team.
"I don't want to say anything bad that can hurt my teammates, but look at Toronto, they have strengthened themselves and we haven't done anything," said Tejada, who hit .305 last season with 26 homers and 98 RBIs.
The Orioles and free agent outfielder Jeromy Burnitz (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5061/) agreed on a two-year contract Wednesday, pending the results of a physical, a team source told the AP. The team will pay the former Chicago Cubs (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chc/) right fielder between $10 million and $12 million. The 36-year-old Burnitz hit .258 with 24 homers and 87 RBIs with the Cubs last season.
Baltimore also reached a preliminary agreement with free agent Jeff Conine (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4600/) on a $1.7 million, one-year contract. Conine, who played in Baltimore from 1999-03, needs to pass a physical for the deal to be finalized.
Tejada noted that division rivals New York and Toronto made moves to improve. The Yankees acquired outfielder Johnny Damon (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5484/) and the Blue Jays signed closer B.J. Ryan (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6294/), starting pitcher A.J. Burnett (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6314/) and third baseman Troy Glaus (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6063/).
"If the Orioles don't do anything, I want them to trade me because I am tired of losing," Tejada said before a winter league game.
If he isn't traded by the Orioles, Tejada said he would "respect the game as I have always done."
"I am not asking for a team of superstars, I only want a good group that helps me to win," he said.
Tejada also responded to comments made by former teammate Rafael Palmeiro (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/3897/), who tested positive for steroids. Palmeiro has said Tejada gave him vitamin B-12 earlier this year, and suggested it might have been tainted with performance-enhancing drugs. "Everyone knows that vitamin B-12 doesn't do anything bad," Tejada said. "I am not upset with Palmeiro, but enough speaking about that already," he said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgYEbW_hjvBFKo5KTEMdCdkRvLYF?slug=ap-orioles-tejada&prov=ap&type=lgns
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[McDoogle]

Tejada to the jays!

[The Miz]

so I'm going to address this post and then I'm done with you on this subject, and you can take it up with BCWWF, Hero and whoever else wants to keep going on this.

I thought you said you were done last post?

Post season and "clutch" chances are few and far between, so yes you have to use a "small sample" to go off, you don't get from most players 100-200 AB's in a post season to judge them on.

Uh, isn't that what I just said?

Actually No. BCWWF brought him up, he wasn't on my original list and when you started addressing him and me at the same time with the same questions I combined our responses into my post.

You listed Dye with others and said "Are you telling me they couldn't have re-signed any of these guys"






VEL the GM, cute, Miz-Kid or do you prefer "The Wiz"?

Anyway, umm, yeah... cause Kotsay and Damon's stats are sooooooo similar... :roll:

VEL the GM was not an insult, I don't have time to come up with genius names like The Wiz. I was asking if VEL was a GM, would he try to match Boston's offer on Kotsay if he posted Damon's 2001 stats.

You're right, Kotsay and Damon aren't the same player, but that wasn't the point. If a player, no matter how great he has been in the past, puts up Damon's year in 2001 up in his only year with that team, 30 out of 30 GM's don't compete with a team's 4 year offer. You still failed to answer whether or not you would compete with Damon's 4 year/36 mil offer, and I get the feeling its because if you answered honestly it would kill your argument.

Key word there "Sometimes" this is what Oakland does ALL THE TIME!

A's get: Milton Bradley, Antonio Perez
Dodgers get: minor leaguer

A's get: Chris Hammond
Yankees get: 2 minor leaguers

A's get: Jose Guillen
Reds get: 3 minor leaguers

A's get: Erubiel Durazo
Dbacks get: minor leaguer

A's get: Ricardo Rincon
Indians get: minor leaguer

A's get: Ted Lilly
Yankees get: minor leaguers

A's get: Jermaine Dye
KC get: 3 minor leaguers

A's get: David Justice
Yankees get: 2 minor leaguers

Do I need to continue? Because there's more.

You bark at me for after dicusion choosing to agree with you on Dye, yet ignore the fact that you're focusing on

Dye and Damon's "1 bad year"

Damon's one bad year was his only year with Oakland. Dye played 2 full years there, both of them bad. I just talked about his 2004, I could rant on his 2002 if you really want me to.

while doging Giambi,

The very first sentence I typed in response to you was stating that Giambi was out of their price range. This is the first time you have brought up Giambi's name since. I have dodged nothing.

[quote=VEL]ok, reply if you wish, I'm done on this it's the same crap again and again.

I have a feeling you aren't done.

[VonErich Lives]

you're right, just to clarify one thing because it seems you can't seem to figure it out on your own from all this.

If I was the GM of Oakland at the time, YES I would have tried to resign damon and somehow found a way to compete or come close (maybe Damon liked the weather out there and would have stayed) with the Red Sox offer.

[The Miz]

It's easy to say that now. Wish we could've had this conversation in 2001.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Damon said something about his stats being down with the A's since he was taking more pitches and trying to help the team more that way, then swinging at the first pitch (a lot of batters feel that is the best pitch to hit) I am pretty sure I read that in his book, it's probably a load of bullshit but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Anyways, I am starting to hear a lot about this 3 way trade, with Manny ending up with the Mets, Tejada with the Sox and Benson with the O's. Personally I don't see this trade ever happening but who knows? The O's seem to be getting shafted, unless there is a huge salary difference between Benson and Tejada (knowing the Mets though, Benson probably still makes a shitload of money for being an average pitcher) Also, I am not sure if Manny wants to play in New York? I know he can veto trades so he could void this trade if he wanted to. I don't see how playing in NY could be any better then Boston (atleast from his stand point, I think he wants to play somewhere where people aren't really as crazy about baseball)

[The Miz]

Latest trade rumor I heard was

Boston gets:
SS Miguel Tejada

New York gets:
OF Manny Ramirez

Baltimore gets:
SP Matt Clement
SS Julio Lugo
OF Victor Diaz
SP Brian Bannister

Tamp Bay gets:
RP Aaron Heilman
2B Kaz Matsui

It seems way too complicated to work out but it at least semi-makes sense for all teams. Boston gets their SS and gets rid of Manny, New York lands Manny, Baltimore gets some pitching and a more than adequate Tejada replacement and Devil Rays get a top young reliever and only have to give up Lugo who they will lose to FA next year anyway. It is a stupid trade for New York but they don't care, as long as they get the biggest most expensive players and deplete their farm system theyre happy. Baltimore would be insane not to go for it. Overall though I dont see it happening

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I don't see how Manny would think playing for the Mets would be any "better" then playing for Boston. I've heard people say it would be okay because of Pedro, but there is the exact same situation in Beantown right now and he's still unhappy (Ortiz). So even if somehow that trade worked out, I could still see Manny vetoing that trade. Maybe he wouldn't though, since he isn't exactly the smartest dude out there. I wish Manny would just grow a sack and stop being a lillllllll bitch and just want to play here. Ortiz and Ramirez batting back to back is just flat out sick and it is gonna suck when that comb o is broken up.

I've been pretty happy with the Red Sox management since it changed over, instead of bitching about Fenway Park not being able to produce enough revenue, they went out and built Monster seats, and a table area above the right field seats. They have squeezed more seats in, and improved concessions outside of the Park. The atmosphere outside of Fenway is amazing now, even if you aren't a Red Sox fan I would suggest taking in a game on a summer night at Fenway, they close down the entire street right outside the park and there is all types of shit going on. I've seen a large improvement since the switch, I don't really like what happened with Theo though. I think they really fucked up letting him go. I think that is hurting the team a lot right now, and will continue to hurt the team. Trade Hanley Ramirez but then let go of Renteria? I was all for letting go of Edgar "I ground into more double plays then I turn" Renteria but it really didn't make sense to me after they traded their best SS prospect away - especially for a pitcher from the National league. I don't really like the idea of a pitcher switching leagues, maybe I am wrong here but I just don't see him being as effective as he was in Florida.

[VonErich Lives]

It's easy to say that now. Wish we could've had this conversation in 2001.

of course, so now my opinion is slighted because of post performance... :roll: whatever, you win alwyas always... wiz kid. However shapping the facts works for you, that's fine.

and it's not just that Kotsay is just a "different person", he's never had "damon" stats before that. So, that would be the point, the point of going after Damon is what he had done in his career, stats that at around the same points in the game (years, age) Kotsay is not as good as Damon was.

[VonErich Lives]

Miz, where did you see/hear the 4-way? I just ask because most people I heard and read talk about that said it was an "internet rumor", I did hear the radio talking about a 3way, same one Stima was talking about (actually, I think I posted it somewhere...)

It doesn't make sense, unless there are some prospects with Benson.

Stima - As for Manny to NY, I'm not sure if you're here locally or away to school, but the main reason for him leaving is the pressure of the press or fans, it's his Wife, the long story short is, he was having an affair and the women involved went kinda "fatal attraction" so his wife wants out of Boston or claimed she would leave him and take the kids (1 born and 1 on the way). This is why Ortiz said "It's for real this time, you don't know what him and his family are going through".

On a side note, I must admit it's kinda funny... I'm far from an expert on them, but a little funny info from either first hand knowledge or via a friend.

She was a host at (I think) Joe's American, she was at a club one night on a date, talking to some people and a friend of hers said "hey, that's Manny Rameriez over there" she blew off her date and friends and went straight for him... Apperently they hit it off since they eventually got married. She got this great, rich athlete and he got a hot chick.

Now, while you'd think She'd be Manny's "Arm Candy" it's the other way around, and even after marrige she'd go out of her way to show him off.

She used to belong to the same Gym I used to go to. When she'd work out with one of the trainers, she'd bring Manny with her. Now, this Gym has an upstairs for personal training where you can only go if you've having a private session, given there are more machines down stairs but you can do most things upstairs. Rather then working out upstairs she'd work down stairs with Manny following her around. It was like a puppy on a leash, and he'd just do crunches while waiting for her. I once asked a trainer I knew there why they didn't go upstairs, (of couse, I'd also wonder why not go to a private gym or have your own) and he said the trainer actually had asked her if she would and even the manager had poltely suggested it, because it was kinda "disrupting" and she wanted none of it, insisted on being downstairs.

I dunno, just kinda funny...

But back to baseball, yeah I don't get the Benson part either.

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Friday, December 30</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
White Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Tejada still upset with O's
Dec 30 - Miguel Tejada's more upset now than he was three weeks ago, The Baltimore Sun reports. Unsatisfied with his team's direction, Tejada has reiterated his concerns about the Orioles' lack of improvement, suggesting that he might be better off playing elsewhere next season. "Next year, I want to be somewhere where they want to win," Tejada told The Sun before playing in a Dominican League game on Thursday night.
According to The Sun, the best proposal Baltimore has received for Tejada is from Boston, who offered outfielder Manny Ramirez and pitcher Matt Clement.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6395.jpg
Danys Baez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6395)
Devil Rays
</td><td>Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)
</td><td>Bullpen makeover
Dec 30 - In an effort to land a setup man for closer Billy Wagner, the Mets are working to finalize a deal to acquire reliever Danys Baez from Tampa Bay, The New York Post reports. The Devil Rays would receive a package headed by either Jae Seo or Aaron Heilman.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6154.jpg
Alfonso Soriano (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6154)
Nationals
</td><td>Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Pitching a deal?
Dec 30 - According to the Washington Post, Alfonso Soriano remains adamant about playing second base for the Nationals and won't consider moving to the outfield. His defiance has triggered calls from several interested teams (including Boston) to see if the Nationals might be willing to trade Soriano. For now, the Nats appear unwilling to part with Soriano unless they are bowled over with an offer that includes either a front-line starting pitcher, such as the Red Sox' Josh Beckett, or several younger, front-line pitching prospects.
One source familiar with Washington's discussions over the last several weeks said, "There's nothing close enough to take seriously right now," but thought the Nationals would remain open to talks about trades for pitching.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5132.jpg
Manny Ramirez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5132)
Red Sox
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)?
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
</td><td>Manny obstacles to a blockbuster
Dec 30 - The Mets remain interested in acquiring Manny Ramirez and are paying close attention to the Miguel Tejada situation in Baltimore, the Newark Star-Ledger reports. One possibility is a multi-team swap in which Mets pitcher Kris Benson would end up in Baltimore, Tejada in Boston and Ramirez with the Mets (with a variety of other players and cash bouncing around as well). The Red Sox have offered Ramirez and Matt Clement to the Orioles for Tejada, but there are several possible deal killers, The Boston Globe reports. Baltimore is largely opposed to dealing Tejada to an AL East team; Ramirez and Clement are owed approximately $22 million more in guaranteed money than Tejada; and Ramirez would have to approve a move to Baltimore.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4969.jpg
J.T. Snow (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4969)
Giants
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)?
Yankees (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)
</td><td>Forecasting Snow
Dec 30 - The Red Sox are awaiting word from 37-year-old first baseman J.T. Snow, the Boston Herald reports. Snow's agent, Dan Horwits, said a decision could come before the end of this week.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/3340.jpg
Roger Clemens (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3340)
Astros
</td><td>Yankees (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy)?
Rangers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex)?
</td><td>Rocket relaunch?
Dec 30 - If Roger Clemens decides to pitch next season, the Rangers will be interested in his services, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports. The Yankees already have had talks with Clemens' agents about a possible return to pinstripes, and the Red Sox also have made contact this winter. Clemens, 43, probably won't make a decision until February or March, after pitching for the United States in the World Baseball Classic.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6451.jpg
Julio Lugo (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6451)
Devil Rays
</td><td>Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)
</td><td>Holiday package?
Dec 30 - Whether Julio Lugo remains with the Devil Rays or is traded to the Red Sox appears contingent on whether Boston can work a trade for disgruntled Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada, the St. Petersburg Times reports. According to the Tampa Tribuen, the Devil Rays and Red Sox have talked about a deal that could send Lugo and possibly center fielder Joey Gathright to Boston.
Another potential trading partner is the Mets, who apparently like Lugo and reliever Danys Baez. Tampa Bay likely would want pitcher Aaron Heilman in return.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5152.jpg
Brian Anderson (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5152)
Royals
</td><td>Rangers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex)?
</td><td>Arlington road
Dec 30 - Brian Anderson is next on the Rangers' winter wish list, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports. After undergoing a physical, the veteran left-hander is expected to sign with Texas. Anderson, 33, had "Tommy John" surgery on July 21 and is unlikely to pitch until June. He has a career record of 82-83 with a 4.74 ERA in 13 major league seasons.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6225.jpg
Ryan Franklin (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6225)
Mariners
</td><td>Pirates (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=pit)?
Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
Royals (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=kan)?
Nationals (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=was)?
Giants (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sfo)?
Rangers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tex)?
Diamondbacks (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=ari)?
Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
</td><td>Mr. Popular
Dec 30 - The Pirates have considered bidding for free-agent right-hander Ryan Franklin to add depth to the starting rotation, the Beaver County Times reports. Franklin, who became a free agent when Seattle declined to tender him a contract, is attracting plenty of interest from teams in the market for a back-end-of-the-rotation starter, reports ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. Agent Jeff Frye has been using the recent deals signed by Jason Johnson, Brett Tomko and Scott Elarton as a framework in Franklin's talks with clubs. Franklin has a 23-44 record over the past three seasons, but a lower ERA (4.49) and more innings pitched (603) than any of those three starters. Tomko signed a two-year, $8.75 million deal with the Dodgers, while Elarton agreed to a two-year, $8 million contract with Kansas City. Cleveland signed Johnson for one year and $4 million.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[The Miz]

Miz, where did you see/hear the 4-way? I just ask because most people I heard and read talk about that said it was an "internet rumor", I did hear the radio talking about a 3way, same one Stima was talking about (actually, I think I posted it somewhere...)
Read the 4-way on Gotham Baseball (NY magazine) website.

Here's another one the NY Daily News reported was discussed (Both of these are NY papers, not the most reliable source of information)

Mets get:
OF Manny Ramirez

Red Sox get:
SS Miguel Tejada
OF Joey Gathright

Orioles get:
SS Julio Lugo
SP Matt Clement
SP Kris Benson

Devil Rays:
3B Andy Marte
SP Aaron Heilman
2B Kaz Matsui
SP Jae Seo

It's an excellent trade for TB. Although NY usually doesn't care about giving up prospects/pitchers, I just can't see Minaya entering 06 with a rotation of Pedro/Glavine/Trachsel/Zambrano/another starter. But I don't see BAL or BOS even thinking about accepting it.

Also, according to Newsday, Aaron Heilman told the Mets if he doesn't start in 2006 he wants a trade.

[YOUR Hero]

Randa signs with the Pirates. Only a 1 year deal. Very surprised they didn't sign a 2 or 3 year deal.

[Gertner]

lol cause its pittsburgh and who the hell who stay there more than a year

[YOUR Hero]

He says he wanted to go to Pittsburgh, that he chose Pittsburgh over other teams. His first year in the majors he played for the Pirates.

[The Miz]

Steve Phillips prediction watch, week 3

Johnny Damon to Red Sox WRONG
Kevin Millwood to Indians WRONG
Jarrod Washbun to Rangers WRONG
Mark Grudzielanek to Cardinals WRONG
Nomar to Dodgers RIGHT
Jacque Jones to Tigers WRONG
Reggie Sanders to Cardinals WRONG
Jeromy Burnitz to Padres WRONG
Kenny Lofton to Padres WRONG
Joe Randa to LA Dodgers WRONG
Scott Elarton to Nats WRONG
Octavio Dotel to Mets WRONG
Juan Encarnacion to Mets WRONG

1/14, ouch. He is 8/38 (.211) on the season

[YOUR Hero]

A monkey could make better predictions. (VEL)

[The Miz]

Pirates are going to trade (if not bench) Craig Wilson. They won't ask for much and he will be a great steal for a team needing a corner OF

[YOUR Hero]

If the Pirates give up on Craig Wilson, it would be a huge mistake. Why do you think thaqt, Miz?

The only thing I can think of is his lower than desired avg. Yet the Pirates tried to land Byrnes and his avg. is not much better.

[YOUR Hero]

...maybe they think his 2004 season was a fluke, better than he's able to reproduce?

[RoXer]

wtf

[YOUR Hero]

Glitched, but repaired...

I wonder if anyone is going to pick up Juan Gonzalez? So much potential, but so often injured anymore. It seems to me he'd make a great DH, as good as a Frank Thomas.

[The Miz]

If the Pirates give up on Craig Wilson, it would be a huge mistake. Why do you think thaqt, Miz?

The only thing I can think of is his lower than desired avg. Yet the Pirates tried to land Byrnes and his avg. is not much better.

from Pit. Post-Gazette

Littlefield has addressed three of his four targeted positions for upgrade this offseason, with only right field remaining. He has not ruled out using Craig Wilson or Jody Gerut in right, perhaps as a platoon, but reiterated his preference to find a new starter from the outside.
"We want to try to get a power bat that's been productive, hopefully with some solid defense, someone who fits into our lineup," Littlefield said. "We're out there working to find that guy."
He added that is more likely to occur through free agency than a trade.


--------------



I don't think Littlefield is stupid enough to bench Wilson due to his .265 average, he has posted .355-.360 OBP in every season he's played along with a .500 SLG. Even if his 2004 was a fluke (which I don't think it was, its not surprising he hits 29 home runs when he finally plays 155 games), his numbers before that were an .872 OPS and 18 HR in only 116 games. I don't know what FA corner OFer Littlefield thinks is going to produce better than that. Certainly not Sosa or Hidalgo.

I'd like to see St. Louis go after him, they could use an upgrade over Larry Bigbie/So Taguchi. If ATL trades Langerhans to Cleveland they might want to look Wilson's way also.

[YOUR Hero]

I agree with you on the points about Wilson. Of course right away I begin to think about the Jays. The need for pop from the outfield remains and this would be a match, IMO.

[The Miz]

As far as Gonzalez, i don't think so, he's riskier than Thomas. Thomas is only 2 years removed from 150+ games and 42 homers, Juan Gone hasn't played more than half a season since 2001. I can't think of a single AL team other than the Yankees that might take a chance on him.

[The Miz]

Man, Toronto would've been perfect if they would've acted before Pittsburgh signed Joe Randa. Pirates desperately needed a 3rd basemen, Toronto had 3 quality ones. Koskie for Wilson probably would've been a match.

[YOUR Hero]

Juan can't command too much cash, one would think. A one year contract with incentives seems to be all he could expect, making him affordable to anyone.

[YOUR Hero]

Man, Toronto would've been perfect if they would've acted before Pittsburgh signed Joe Randa. Pirates desperately needed a 3rd basemen, Toronto had 3 quality ones. Koskie for Wilson probably would've been a match.

The Jays can't seem to move Koskie. I don't understand it. Nor do I understand trying to trade him. I see players have injured years/off years bounce back all the time. Teams seem to want Hillenbrand, which is understandable. (Just wish Hinske [broken record here] could be moved)

Although yes, a trade of Koskie for Wilson would make perfet sence at the time.

[The Miz]

This is true, but I'm struggling to think of an AL team whose current DH is worse than Juan Gonzalez. The Yankees don't really know who their DH is right now which is why they might give him a chance. If he gets hurt or doesn't produce, they can use Cairo/Phillips and go back to their plan of using it to give their people rest.

[YOUR Hero]

I didn't finish my thoughts on Koskie...

He can be an upgrade at 1b for Toronto, I see him there. He can DH at times as a rest and let Hillenbrand switch off with him. I see no role for Hinske anymore. Plus, Hinske tends to complain when he doesn't get playing time. If he'd be comfortable in a role position, fine. He doesn't seem to feel that's a duty for him yet.

Koskie is a 'team guy', he'd play 1b if asked. He's a great character guy and teams need those, especially ones that can produce.

[The Miz]

What I don't get is Toronto's fascination with Hillenbrand. JP took him off the block the other day. He's not that much better than Hinske/Koskie but has much higher trade value. JP seems set with Glaus at third, Hillenbrand at DH. Not really any spot for Hinske or Koskie right now.

[The Miz]

I didn't finish my thoughts on Koskie...

He can be an upgrade at 1b for Toronto, I see him there. He can DH at times as a rest and let Hillenbrand switch off with him. I see no role for Hinske anymore. Plus, Hinske tends to complain when he doesn't get playing time. If he'd be comfortable in a role position, fine. He doesn't seem to feel that's a duty for him yet.

Koskie is a 'team guy', he'd play 1b if asked. He's a great character guy and teams need those, especially ones that can produce.

Maybe before they got Overbay :p

[YOUR Hero]

I think Hillenbrand and him had a gentleman's agreement. I believe JP is honouring that.

[YOUR Hero]

Maybe before they got Overbay :p

Pffft.

d'oh.

Good point. What was I thinking :lol:
Koskie to the outfield?
Man...

[The Miz]

In the end I see Hinske being moved (Baltimore has previously shown interest), Koskie sitting the bench and giving Overbay, Glaus, and Hillenbrand days off at 1B/3B/DH, and JP getting a corner OF from outside. But to move Hinske Toronto better be willing to eat some slaray.

[RoXer]

A real DBacks corner infield they got there.

[VonErich Lives]

A monkey could make better predictions. (VEL)

*throws monkey poop at Hero*

[Gertner]

What I don't get is Toronto's fascination with Hillenbrand. JP took him off the block the other day. He's not that much better than Hinske/Koskie but has much higher trade value. JP seems set with Glaus at third, Hillenbrand at DH. Not really any spot for Hinske or Koskie right now.


i can't get peoples fascination with koskie. he strikes out too much and has a below average Batting average


Hinske being moved to the outfield makes no sense to me considering they re-sgned reed johnson and still have catalanatto. I would like to see the Jays pick up a base stealing threat.

[YOUR Hero]

Last year his strike outs were very high. I believe it had a lot to do with him pressing. You know, trying to prove himself to Toronto/Canadian fans. Then he got hurt, when he came back he pressed even more still. I really believe last year was just a tough year for him. I like JP's direction, and I think he's done things that have been in the very best interest of the Jays now, and into the future, but I wish he wasn't soured (rumoured) with Koskie. He needs a chance to prove himself.

[Gertner]

Last year his strike outs were very high. I believe it had a lot to do with him pressing. You know, trying to prove himself to Toronto/Canadian fans. Then he got hurt, when he came back he pressed even more still. I really believe last year was just a tough year for him. I like JP's direction, and I think he's done things that have been in the very best interest of the Jays now, and into the future, but I wish he wasn't soured (rumoured) with Koskie. He needs a chance to prove himself.


I also like JP"S direction, but I also think Koskie's salary would be better spent on a base stealing threat.

[YOUR Hero]

Well there's no doubt the Jays are slow. Rios lead the team with 14(?) stolen bases last year. Wells used to be a bit of a stealing threat as is Hinske to a degree. The Jays do run the bases well... *grasping here...

[YOUR Hero]

I was just looking something up of Koskie. He played some RF for Minnesota back in 1999. Not much mind you. I wonder if the plan is to put him in the OF afterall.. if they can't move him. With all due respect to Catalanotto and Reed, they lack punch.

You know, there's no way JP will keep things as they are. Too complicated and the players will grumble over time.

[Gertner]

yeah 5 players for 3 positions won't sit well. especially with our lack of power in right/left field.

[Evil Vito]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spbase0103,0,5714417.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

<font color=goldenrod>What a deal that would be...I like Seo, but I have a feeling big league hitters will soon pick up on his pitches.

And then dumping Matsui, always a great thing...I'd ask for Lugo in the deal, but even if they refused I'd make the initial deal in a heartbeat.

Plus, that would open up a spot in the rotation for Aaron Heilman, who said he wants to be dealt if he's NOT used in a starting capacity</font> :cool:

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Tuesday, January 3</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
White Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Boston calling?
Jan 3 - The Orioles would like to decide the fate of shortstop Miguel Tejada within the next several days, the Boston Herald reports. Among the possible trade partners with Baltimore are the Red Sox, who are offering outfielder Manny Ramirez and pitcher Matt Clement in exchange for Tejada and an outfielder, who could be 22-year-old prospect Nick Markakis. Though there are other teams interested in Tejada, none may be able to offer the package put forth by the Red Sox. The Cubs reportedly have offered Mark Prior and outfielder Corey Patterson in a package for Tejada. The Astros also have expressed interest in the shortstop, but no one can offer Baltimore a hitter like Ramirez in return.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5132.jpg
Manny Ramirez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5132)
Red Sox
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)?
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
</td><td>Blockbuster brewing?
Jan 3 - A blockbuster four-team trade involving Manny Ramirez could be in the works, the New York Daily News reports. The Mets would get Ramirez from the Red Sox, as well as reliever Danys Baez from the Devil Rays. The Sox would receive shortstop Miguel Tejada from the Orioles and center fielder Joey Gathright from the D-Rays. Baltimore would get Julio Lugo from Tampa and possibly starters Kris Benson from the Mets and Matt Clement from Boston. The Rays would get cheap players with big upsides, such as Aaron Heilman and Jae Seo from the Mets. According to the Boston Herald, the Sox are still in Manny-Tejada talks. The Sox are offering Ramirez and Clement to the Orioles in exchange for Tejada and an outfielder, possibly 22-year-old prospect Nick Markakis.
Ramirez reportedly would accept a deal to Baltimore only if the O's would exercise a pair of options on his contract. Those options would keep Ramirez in Baltimore through 2010 but are at a whopping $20 million each, which would be a major deterrent to the Orioles.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[VonErich Lives]

Wait, so this putz, wants a trade, but now, only if they pickup $40mil in options?

WTF, let him sit and earn nothing.

[Joey Slugs]

Wait, so this putz, wants a trade, but now, only if they pickup $40mil in options?

WTF, let him sit and earn nothing.

My thoughts exactly.

[The Miz]

Astros sign Preston Wilson, Pirates sign Jeromy Burnitz (not Baltimore as earlier reported)

[The Miz]

I'd bet good money if Craig Wilson gets traded and starts for another team he'll have a much more productive season than Burnitz.

[YOUR Hero]

Come on TO pick up Wilson. OMG :'(

[YOUR Hero]

I don't quite understand why people rag on Burnitz. Apart from the fact he commands a high dollar value, he still puts up decent offensive numbers. That said, Wilson (unless there is something about him we don't know) has a better overall upside.

[YOUR Hero]

I see the Jays picked up a decent backup catcher. In fact maybe he'll push Zaun for the starting role. Although I doubt it. Jason Phillips. (His batting avg. is startling low.)

[The Miz]

He'll battle Quiroz for the backup position. I doubt he makes the team.

[The Miz]

As for why I rag on Burnitz, here are his last 3 seasons not including 2004's bloated Coors numbers

.258/.322/.435 (.757)
.239/.299/.487 (.786)
.215/.311/.365 (.677)

And he's 37.

[YOUR Hero]

That's what was said of Zaun.

[YOUR Hero]

2001 - 34HR 100RBI (MIL)
2002 - 19HR 54RBI (METS)
2003 - 31HR 77RBI (METS/LAD)
2004 - 37HR 110RBI (COL)
2005 - 24HR 87RBI (CHC)

That's production you failed to mention. I'm not trying to "VEL" you, but don't pick and choose your stats like that.

Like I stated, he's getting long in the tooth (37)

[The Miz]

He was great in 2001 and has been on a steady decline since then. 19 HR/54 RBI for the Mets is supposed to impress me? His power was good in 2003 but you can;t ignore a sub-.300 OBP. 2004, like I said, Coors, I can't name another team in the league that Burnitz would put up 37/110. Preston Wilson had 144 RBI's for Colorado, btw. And 2005 was just a very average season.

Not saying he sucks, but he's not near an elite corner OF or near worth what hes making.

[YOUR Hero]

2002 is when everyone just wrote him off or started to. We both agree on most things about him, Im simply saying he deserves some form of credit.

[Gertner]

yeah we gotta give quiroz more playing time to see if he's going to amount to anything. but with his injury problem phillps will probably see alot of time

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets gets: RHP Duaner Sanchez, RHP Steve Schmoll
Dodgers get: RHP Jae Seo, LHP Tim Hamulack

Eh, I woulda preferred Baez but Sanchez is good enough. Dunno who the fuck Steve Schmoll is though.

Also, the Mets signed Bret Boone to a minor league deal.....maybe 2005 was an off-year</font> :shifty:

[OssMan]

<font color=goldenrod>Mets gets: RHP Duaner Sanchez, RHP Steve Schmoll
Dodgers get: RHP Jae Seo, LHP Tim Hamulack
?

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Wednesday, January 4</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
White Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Will Boston sweeten the deal?
Jan 4 - While it still is possible that Miguel Tejada will land in Boston, the Orioles will not accept the Red Sox's offer of outfielder Manny Ramirez, pitcher Matt Clement and cash for Tejada, The Baltimore Sun reports. According to The Boston Globe, the Red Sox would like an outfielder along with Tejada, possibly center fielder Luis Matos. The Orioles, The Sun reports, are eyeing young pitchers, Jon Lester or Jon Papelbon, but both are believed to be untouchable.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5132.jpg
Manny Ramirez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5132)
Red Sox
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)?
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
</td><td>Swapping superstars?
Jan 4 - As part of any trade, Manny Ramirez is believed to be seeking a contract extension, The Boston Globe reports. Ramirez, who has the right to veto any trade, is owed $57 million over the next three seasons; his contract includes club options for 2009 and 2010 at $20 million. The framework for a deal that would send Ramirez to Baltimore for shortstop Miguel Tejada is in place, but there are layers that have to be worked out, including money, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports. And both sides say there is more of a chance the deal won't happen than it will.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5523.jpg
Rich Aurilia (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5523)
Reds
</td><td>Reds (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cin)?
</td><td>After shopping around ...
Jan 4 - It appears infielder Rich Aurilia will return to the Reds, but a deal must be struck by Sunday, the Cincinnati Enquirer reports. "I think the Reds are our most viable alternative," Aurilia's agent, Barry Axelrod, told the newspaper. "We've talked to some other clubs, but those have been contingent discussions."
If the two sides fail to work out a deal by Jan. 8, Aurilia can't re-sign with the Reds until May 1.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6451.jpg
Julio Lugo (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6451)
Devil Rays
</td><td>Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)
</td><td>Lugo for Marte?
Jan 4 - If Miguel Tejada can't be pried away from Baltimore, Boston's Plan B at shortstop is Julio Lugo, the Boston Herald reports. The Red Sox may be able to land Lugo from the Devil Rays for third base prospect Andy Marte, who was acquired from Atlanta for Edgar Renteria.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6642.jpg
Craig Wilson (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6642)
Pirates
</td><td>Indians (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=cle)?
</td><td>Is Wilson right for Tribe?
Jan 4 - The Cleveland Indians, in the market for a right-handed bat, have inquired about the availability of Pittsburgh's Craig Wilson, reports ESPN.com Insider Jerry Crasnick. Wilson, 29, hit 29 homers and drove in 82 runs for Pittsburgh in 2004 before missing much of last season with a finger injury. He stands to lose considerable playing time with the recent acquisitions of Sean Casey at first base and Jeromy Burnitz in right field.
The Pirates like Wilson's power, but he made $3 million last year and is eligible for salary arbitration this spring. He might be too expensive for Pittsburgh to keep as a bench player.
Cleveland tried and failed to sign free agent Nomar Garciaparra earlier this winter, and has recently been negotiating with Eduardo Perez as a righty bat off the bench.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5537.jpg
Shawn Estes (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5537)
Diamondbacks
</td><td>Padres (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sdg)
</td><td>Estes to join Padres
Jan 4 - Left-handed starter Shawn Estes is expected to sign a one-year deal with the Padres, MLB.com reports. Estes is scheduled to undergo a physical examination Wednesday.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5897.jpg
Eli Marrero (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5897)
Orioles
</td><td>Rockies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=col)?
</td><td>Rocky Mountain high?
Jan 4 - The Rockies are pursuing Eli Marrero, the Rocky Mountain News reports. A key in Marrero's decision will be finding a team where he is going to be used at multiple positions to ensure him plenty of playing time.
"I want a team that is a good fit," Marrero told the newspaper. "I don't mind moving around the field, but to be honest, I still feel more comfortable catching. When I was with St. Louis, Tony [La Russa, Cardinals manager] would catch me, and then move me around, and I felt good in that role."

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6110.jpg
Corey Koskie (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6110)
Blue Jays
</td><td>Twins (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=min)
</td><td>Twin spin for Koskie?
Jan 4 - The Blue Jays have offered to trade third baseman Corey Koskie back to the Twins for a minor leaguer, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports. The Jays reportedly would absorb at least $3 million of the $11.5 million still owed to Koskie over the next two years.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6237.jpg
Byung-Hyun Kim (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6237)
Rockies
</td><td>Rockies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=col)
</td><td>Welcome back to Colorado
Jan 4 - The Rockies are ready to finalize a deal with Byung-Hyun Kim, the Rocky Mountain News reports. Because of ongoing visa problems, Kim cannot come to Denver to meet with club officials but will have a telephone conversation with GM Dan O'Dowd and manager Clint Hurdle to firm up details. Kim is expected to fill the fourth spot in the rotation.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6077.jpg
Alex Gonzalez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6077)
Marlins
</td><td>Rockies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=col)?
</td><td>Rocky road?
Jan 4 - According to the Rocky Mountain News, the Rockies have interest in shortstop Alex Gonzalez, who played last season with the Devil Rays after originally signing with the Blue Jays and also playing with the Cubs.
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Gertner]

i pretty much figured koskie would go back to minny.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Ryan Franklin to the Phillies</font> :lol:

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Thursday, January 5</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
White Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Miggy trade talks cool
Jan 5 - Talks between the Red Sox and Orioles about a Manny Ramirez-Miguel Tejada trade have stalled, the Boston Herald reports. The Red Sox have offered Ramirez and pitcher Matt Clement, but the Orioles want third base prospect Andy Marte in the deal. At least two teams, the Herald reports, have offered the Orioles a more attractive package. Ramirez's desire to have two option years picked up at $20M each is another potential deal breaker.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4057.jpg
David Wells (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4057)
Red Sox
</td><td>Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)
</td><td>Three-way deal for Wells?
Jan 5 - The Red Sox have talked to the Dodgers and A's about a three-way deal for David Wells, The Boston Globe reports. The Red Sox would receive a corner outfielder from the Dodgers and a player from Oakland, the A's would get prospects, and the Dodgers would land Wells.
</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6200.jpg
Jeff Weaver (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6200)
Dodgers
</td><td>Dodgers (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=lad)
</td><td>Dodger deal unlikely
Jan 5 - The Dodgers appear unlikely to re-sign starter Jeff Weaver, the Los Angeles Daily News reports. GM Ned Colletti on Tuesday spoke with Weaver's agent, Scott Boras, and reported no progress. "We have a difference of opinion and philosophy," Colletti told the newspaper. "And unless we find some common ground, that (situation) may pass us by."

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/7043.jpg
Jose Contreras (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7043)
White Sox
</td><td> </td><td>Trade possibility
Jan 5 - According to the Chicago Tribune, there's still a possibility that the White Sox will trade Jose Contreras -- for pitching. The right-hander is not signed or under team control past next season and is the only one of six White Sox starting pitchers not under team control for two more seasons. "I'm willing to listen to anyone [about trades] because of the contractual situation," GM Kenny Williams told the newspaper. "Something that would help us win this year and also set us up for the future. In my mind, [a trade] would be for pitching."
White Sox management and Contreras' agent Jaime Torres have not talked in more than a week, apparently stuck on the number of years for a deal.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6110.jpg
Corey Koskie (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6110)
Blue Jays
</td><td>Twins (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=min)
</td><td>No Twin spin for Koskie
Jan 5 - Even though the Blue Jays have offered Corey Koskie back to the Twins at a discount price, the trade talks have been officially pronounced dead, the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports. "I don't see a deal happening with Minnesota," said Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi.
The Blue Jays were willing to pay at least $3 million of the $11.5 million Koskie is owed for the next two seasons, and Toronto wasn't asking for premium prospects in return.
But the Twins have already reached their projected 2006 budget limit, and they weren't eager to bring back Koskie if it meant having to trade Kyle Lohse to clear payroll.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6395.jpg
Danys Baez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6395)
Devil Rays
</td><td>Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
</td><td>To deal or not to deal?
Jan 5 - The Mets are still talking with the Devil Rays about Danys Baez, but given that they no longer have Jae Seo and won't deal Aaron Heilman, they probably lack the trading chips, Newsday reports. Rays vice president Andrew Friedman is still trying to swing a deal, the Tampa Tribune reports.
"With the free-agent period winding down, our trade discussions are getting more pointed," Friedman told the newspaper. "If we can make a trade that fits our direction to go forward, we'll do it. If not, we're content with the way our '06 roster is taking form."

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/7250.jpg
Kazuo Matsui (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7250)
Mets
</td><td>Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Kaz and effect
Jan 5 - By signing Bret Boone to a minor-league contract, the Mets have made it clear that Kaz Matsui's hold on second base is a tenuous one, the St. Petersburg Times reports. According to Newsday, the Mets have talked about sending Matsui to Boston for Alex Cora and have told teams they'd pay $5 million of Matsui's $8 million salary. One competing GM said if they paid $6 million, they'd find a fit.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6239.jpg
Melvin Mora (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6239)
Orioles
</td><td> </td><td>Mora process begins
Jan 5 - The Orioles have had preliminary discussions with the agent for All-Star third baseman Melvin Mora about a contract extension, the Baltimore Sun reports. Mora, whose contract expires after 2006, said late last season that he wanted to have the contract issue settled before the season begins. Mora wants to stay in Baltimore, and indications are that the Orioles will work to grant him his wish.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4870.jpg
Pedro Astacio (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4870)
Padres
</td><td>Rockies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=col)?
Padres (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sdg)?
</td><td>Rocky vote for Pedro
Jan 5 - The Padres have ended their effort to re-sign Pedro Astacio, the San Diego Union-Tribune reports. According to the Rocky Mountain News reports, the Rockies are believed to be offering a little more than $1 million to Astacio, who went 53-48 for the Rockies from 1997-2001. He made $800,000 last year pitching for the Rangers and Padres.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/7065.jpg
Aaron Heilman (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7065)
Mets
</td><td>Devil Rays (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=tam)?
</td><td>Ray of hope?
Jan 5 - After trading Jae Seo and Tim Hamulack to the Dodgers for relievers Duaner Sanchez and Steve Schmoll, the Mets suddenly have a few extra bullpen parts -- and that could free them to deal pitcher Aaron Heilman, the St. Petersburg Times reports. Heilman, whom New York sees as a reliever, is the Devil Rays' primary target and has requested a trade if he is not a starter. He was 5-3 with a 3.17 ERA last season in 53 outings, including seven starts.
According to Newsday, the Mets have no intention of dealing Heilman.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[VonErich Lives]

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=396286

lmfao..

I've heard 2 theroys.

1) He never wanted to leave, his wife did, so he said he wanted out, but made it difficult to be delt. So, he looked good for her, but wouldn't have to leave.

2) The sox called him today and said "Look, we've tried, but we're not going to be able to trade you. Now, if you want to save face with the fans and not be boo'd every at bat all year long, here's what you do".

[The Miz]

JT Snow has signed with Boston. Corey Patterson has been traded to Baltimore.

[VonErich Lives]

Now Manny's agent is saying manny was misquoted and didn't say he wants to stay...

this is just getting silly now.

[Joey Slugs]

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="stathead"><td colspan="3">Friday, January 6</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5888.jpg
Miguel Tejada (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888)
Orioles
</td><td>Astros (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=hou)?
White Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chw)?
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Cubs (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=chc)
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
Red Sox (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bos)?
</td><td>Miggy at third base?
Jan 6 - Major questions still stand in the way of a potential blockbuster deal that could send Miguel Tejada from Baltimore to Philadelphia in exchange for Bobby Abreu, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports. But the two teams continue to talk. Obstacles which could torpedo this trade include: 1) Abreu has a complete no-trade clause, and neither club has asked him whether he would be willing to waive it to play in Baltimore; 2) Tejada, who has never played any position but shortstop, would have to move to third base in Philadelphia. And he hasn?t told either team he wants to change positions.
Both teams have been trying to upgrade their starting pitching in any deal they made for Tejada and Abreu, so they can't help each other on that front without involving other teams.
The Orioles have a number of other offers for Tejada from a group that includes the Cubs, Red Sox, Angels, Astros and Tigers.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6400.jpg
Corey Patterson (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6400)
Cubs
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
</td><td>Patterson to Baltimore?
Jan 6 - The Orioles and Cubs are talking about a deal that would send outfielder Corey Patterson to Baltimore for a minor leaguer, The Baltimore Sun reports. Patterson likely would compete with Luis Matos and prospect Nick Markakis for the Orioles' starting center-field job.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5132.jpg
Manny Ramirez (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5132)
Red Sox
</td><td>Orioles (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=bal)
Phillies (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=phi)?
Mariners (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=sea)?
Mets (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nym)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
</td><td>Manny being Manny redux
Jan 6 - Manny Ramirez doesn't think he'll be traded to the Orioles, or any other team for that matter. "There will be no trade, I'm staying in Boston, where I'm familiar with the system and where I have a lot of friends, especially David Ortiz," Ramirez told ESPNdeportes.com while in Miami on personal business. However, his agent, Greg Genske, reportedly called Ramirez after learning of the slugger's remarks, and Ramirez denied making the comments, according to the Boston Globe. "If Boston is able to work out a trade with Baltimore or another team, Manny is still open to making a move," Genske said.
Over the last two weeks, the Red Sox held multiple conversations with Baltimore about a trade for Miguel Tejada, who also asked to be dealt from the Orioles, but the talks stalled when Ramirez reportedly said that he would approve the trade only if the team he was dealt to would exercise two $20 millon options on his contract.

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="evenrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5909.jpg
David Ortiz (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5909)
Red Sox
</td><td> </td><td>New Sox deal coming soon
Jan 6 - There is a good chance David Ortiz will sign a long-term contract extension with the Red Sox before the start of spring training, the Boston Globe reports. Ortiz is due to be paid $6.5 million this season in the last year of the two-year, $12.5 million extension he signed in May 2004. In addition, the club holds an option on the 2007 season, which was bumped up automatically from $7.75 million to $8.4 million when Ortiz finished second in the AL MVP voting in 2005. Ortiz's agent, Fernando Cuza, has spoken this winter with owner John W. Henry and CEO Larry Lucchino, and Boston's brass expressed great interest in striking a deal soon.
"They haven't said for how long [the extension would run]," Ortiz told the newspaper. "I have two more years. I'd like another four or five years more. I think that would be perfect. By that time I'd be 36, so we'll see. ... The owners really want to make this happen. I guess they want, with all that's been going on, to give Boston some good news."

</td></tr><tr class="colhead"><td width="65">WHO</td><td>INTERESTED</td><td>THE SKINNY</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" valign="top"><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap">http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4527.jpg
Frank Thomas (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4527)
White Sox
</td><td>Athletics (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=oak)?
Twins (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=min)?
Angels (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=laa)?
</td><td>A's for the effort?
Jan 6 - Some teams are keeping tabs on Frank Thomas, but the A's are the top suitor -- and the interest is mutual, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. "They have real interest, but at the same time, they are still evaluating things," agent Arn Tellem told the newspaper. "We're all keeping our fingers crossed." Thomas, who has missed most of the past two seasons with injuries, has not yet gained clearance to play baseball, but the former White Sox star is making progress as he recovers from two different breaks in his left navicular bone (ankle).
"It's all favorable," Tellem said about the results of recent X-rays and a bone scan. "The doctors are all optimistic, and I think the A's are waiting for Frank to be cleared later in the month."

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[The Miz]

Corey Koskie traded to the Brewers :eek:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I think I said Manny wasn't going to be traded right when the off-season started and said this was the same old shit.

Now watch Manny get traded tomorrow after I made this post haha

[OssMan]

just fucking keep him away from NY mets

pleassssssssse :'(

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Bob Klapisch of the Bergen Record, is reporting that Pedro's toe isn't in such bad shape as earlier reported by the Mets and Pedro.
Klapisch states:

"People close to Martinez are whispering that the injury, while not entirely cured, is nothing severe. Yet, by treating it as such, Pedro and the Mets will have the perfect "out" from the World Baseball Classic in March.

Friends say Pedro isn't crazy about pitching in the tournament, but has no way of taking himself off the roster without incurring the wrath of the entire Dominican Republic. Martinez saw how heavily Alex Rodriguez was being leveraged by Dominican officials, and realized he couldn't win that fight, either.

The exemption, of course, is an injury. By claiming he's not game-ready, the Mets will be able to play the role of the heavy and keep Martinez off the Dominican roster, the same way the Yankees blocked Jorge Posada, Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina."

Obviously nothing official, but if it's true then YESSSSSSSSS!!! If true, this is probably the best offseason move the Mets have made thus far</font>

[YOUR Hero]

Milwaukee will do well with Koskie. Weak trade IMO by JP. I mean he traded away pitching prospects to get Overbay and now he trades for pitching prospects for Koskie. This, IMO, was nothing more than accomodating Koskie and freeing up money and the log jam in the infield.

Anyone have any info on Brian Wolfe?

[YOUR Hero]

I predict Gabe Gross will turn into a 20 HR hitter this year for Millwaukee. The Brewers will trade one of their vetern outfielders to make room for him. Milwaukee is on the rise.

[Gertner]

bye koskie, good to see he's taking his weak batting average somewhere else. IT had to be done.

[Gertner]

I predict Gabe Gross will turn into a 20 HR hitter this year for Minnesota

doesn't gross play for milwaukee as well?

lol he's be a 20 hr hitter in the pre season that's about it.

[YOUR Hero]

I meant Milwaukee, you quoted me before I editted... Gross will blossom.

[The Miz]

Milwaukee will do well with Koskie. Weak trade IMO by JP. I mean he traded away pitching prospects to get Overbay and now he trades for pitching prospects for Koskie. This, IMO, was nothing more than accomodating Koskie and freeing up money and the log jam in the infield.

Anyone have any info on Brian Wolfe?

25 years old. 6th round pick by Twins in 1999. Spent most of 2005 in A/AA. Converted from starter to reliever. Unlikely to have any future in the majors.

2005 numbers
Brevard County (A): 18 games, 1-1, 0.79 ERA, 1.19 WHIP
Huntsville (AA): 16 games, 3-1, 3.38 ERA, 1.67 WHIP
New Britain (AA): 5 games, 1-0, 7.04 ERA, 2.22 WHIP
Rochester (AAA): 3 games, 0-2, 8.53 ERA, 1.89 WHIP

7 year minor league career: 41-39, 4.13 ERA, 1.34 WHIP

Don't expect him in a Toronto uniform, ever

[The Miz]

Toronto is also paying Koskie $7.35 million over the next 2 years to not play for them.

Hillenbrand should've been dealt.

[Gertner]

no way. Hillenbrand > Koskie

[The Miz]

Hillenbrand is slightly better, yes, but Koskie/Hinske nets you nothing in return. Hillenbrand has much higher trade value and isn't that much better. It's worth the very slight downgrade in production to get something good back in a trade.

[VonErich Lives]

Hillenbrand is slightly better, yes, but Koskie/Hinske nets you nothing in return. Hillenbrand has much higher trade value and isn't that much better. It's worth the very slight downgrade in production to get something good back in a trade.

Shea "Trade me faggot" Hillenbrand.

[Gertner]

true enough. we could have probably gotten something more, but I still do like Hillenbrand alot more than koskie

[YOUR Hero]

Would have better holding on to Koskie than paying him to play elsewhere.

[Gertner]

yeah but where would you play him?

[YOUR Hero]

Off the bench, in the outfield...

Simply trading him for the sake of trading him is a weak, knee jerk reaction. Things can change, injuries other team's suddenly having a need. Trading koskie and say Lilly for a better OF or P, etc.

Seems to me JP was too eager to trade Koskie. Perhaps there was more to it (Koskie asking to be traded behind the scenes)

[The Miz]

Speaking of Toronto OF, this is what JP told the Sun will happen "if all goes well"

vs. RHP
LF Hinske
CF Wells
RF Catalanatto
Bench: Rios, Johnson

vs. LHP
LF Johnson
CF Wells
RF Rios
Bench: Hinske, Catalanatto

[VonErich Lives]

strong rumor going around that Theo Esptein will be back with the Red Sox in some "roll" starting next week.

I think Luccino has the president title, and they have "co-gm's", it's been talked for awhile that he stills "advises", going to be interesting if it happens where he fits in.

[YOUR Hero]

Speaking of Toronto OF, this is what JP told the Sun will happen "if all goes well"

vs. RHP
LF Hinske
CF Wells
RF Catalanatto
Bench: Rios, Johnson

vs. LHP
LF Johnson
CF Wells
RF Rios
Bench: Hinske, Catalanatto

Terrible. That won't fly. :nono:

[The Miz]

Yeah I don't believe it for a second. I think it was more an "if the season started today" type statement. I still expect them to get a corner OF.

I don't like Rios at all, Johnson is the definition of a 4th OF, Catalanotto and Hinske can both do great things. I say try to package Rios in a deal with someone (possibly Lilly) for Craig Wilson or someone similar. Let Cat platoon with Hinske until the deadline and trade whichever one produces the least (most likely Hinske). And you enter 2006 with:

LF Eric Hinske/Frank Catalanotto
CF Vernon Wells
RF Craig Wilson
DH Shea Hillenbrand
Bench: Reed Johnson

I like that okay

[The Miz]

Really though, I'm shocked how little interest there was in Koskie if all it took was a 25 y/o AA reliever with zero chance of a big league future. Koskie could've upgraded alot of teams bench and a few teams' lineup.

[YOUR Hero]

Can't argue with your thinking, Miz... well except I believe Rios holds 'some' potential. I'd rather insert Hinske in the fantasy trade you had in order to get Wilson.

[The Miz]

I would rather keep Hinske only because of a Glaus injury concern. If he goes down, Hillenbrand would play 3rd which is always an adventure. I believe by the end of the season Glaus, injured or not, will be the full time DH, and it'd be good to have Hinske around.

[YOUR Hero]

What will became of Weaver? I know I've mentioned him before, but it's looking more and mire like the Dodgers and he are going to part ways. I guess I'm surprised more teams don't seem interested in him.

[The Miz]

I still think Cincinnati is a great fit. LA has a deadline of Sunday (tomorrow) to sign him however

[The Miz]

From an article in todays LA Times

------------------

Colletti has not discussed signing free-agent pitcher Jeff Weaver with his agent, Scott Boras, in the last two days, although they plan to talk this weekend. The Dodgers have until Sunday night to sign Weaver.

Weaver reportedly is seeking a four- or five-year deal worth about $10 million a year. The Dodgers don't want to commit to more than three years, and believe the asking price is too high.

There has been speculation that Weaver would accept a one-year deal and pursue free agency again next year. However, Colletti said he has not had any discussions with Boras about signing Weaver for one year.

[YOUR Hero]

If Weaver was willing to sign a one year deal, I'd think almost every team would suddenly become interested in him. Plus, I'd venture to say he'd get his 10 mil, if not more for that year.

[YOUR Hero]

Tejada rescinds trade demand


BALTIMORE (AP) -- Miguel Tejada (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5888/) rescinded his demand to be traded by the Orioles, telling team officials during a phone call Saturday that he's willing to help Baltimore become a contender in the AL East.
Angered over the Orioles' inability to garner additional talent this offseason, Tejada twice expressed his desire to be traded, the last time on Dec. 29. But he backed off that stance during a conversation with teammate Melvin Mora (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6239/) and vice president Jim Duquette.

"Miguel said all he wanted was for the team to improve. He wants to win," Duquette said. "He doesn't know how that got blown out of proportion, and he feels terrible the way it played out."

After Tejada expressed the desire for "a change of scenery" in early December, the Orioles began fielding trade requests for the three-time All-Star. But the Orioles, who signed Tejada to a six-year, $72 million contract in December 2003, had no intention of merely giving him away.
"What we're doing is looking for a fair and reasonable return," executive vice president Mike Flanagan said earlier Saturday. "He's a guy that's under a long-term contract with us, a targeted player, a terrific player. We're just not going to do something for the sake of doing something."
Now, the Orioles intend to do nothing.
"This is the first time we heard this directly from him," Duquette said. "We're elated that he's chosen to stay. We're all committed to improving the team, and it's easier to do it with Miguel than without him."
Tejada in recent weeks refused to return calls from Flanagan, Duquette and first-year manager Sam Perlozzo. But on Saturday he told Mora, one of his closest friends on the team, that he wanted to clear the air.
The announcement came on a day the Orioles drew more than 10,000 fans to the Convention Center for FanFest, an annual offseason event attended by Flanagan, Duquette, Perlozzo and more than a dozen players.
Tejada was not in the building, but he was the main topic of conversation.
"I totally believe we're not getting the whole picture from Miggy. He's a great kid, he's always been a great kid," Perlozzo said before the conversation between Duquette and Tejada. "I can't believe the faucet went from on to off just like that."
Perlozzo expressed hope that Tejada would be in attendance at the first full-squad workout on Feb. 21, and now it appears that he will get his wish.
"Sometimes Miggy gets into situations where he says something he doesn't mean and doesn't know how to get out of it. I'm hoping this is that kind of situation," Perlozzo said. "I've got to believe this is going to come out as a positive for the Orioles, one way or another."
The best-case scenario for Baltimore was Tejada backing off his stance and displaying the same enthusiasm that has enabled him to become the team leader in the clubhouse, in the dugout and on the field.
His leadership abilities, as much as his .304 batting average, 26 homers and 98 RBIs, are what make Tejada the Orioles' most valuable player.
"I know he's a little frustrated, but I can't imagine starting the season without Miguel Tejada," pitcher Bruce Chen (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6087/) said. "He's going to be very hard to replace. He's a team leader, a good player. I'm pretty sure he's going to be back. Once spring training starts, I'm sure he'll be OK."

With Tejada playing a key role, the Orioles bolted into first place early in 2005 and stayed atop the AL East deep into June. But Baltimore couldn't keep up the pace and tumbled into fourth place, in part because of injuries and the steroid-related suspension of first baseman Rafael Palmeiro (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/3897/).
It's hard to determine if Tejada's production tailed off because of the collapse, but he batted .277 in August and .264 in September and October. He hit only four homers after July 27.

Losing -- and Palmeiro's suggestion that his positive steroid test might have come from a tainted injection of vitamin B-12 provided by Tejada -- clearly disturbed the shortstop.

His ire became more pronounced this winter after the Toronto Blue Jays (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/tor/) fortified their roster while the Orioles were outbid for free agent Paul Konerko (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5908/), lost free-agent closer B.J. Ryan (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6294/) and failed to add a pitcher to a young starting rotation.

Adding pitching coach Leo Mazzone, catcher Ramon Hernandez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6258/), reliever LaTroy Hawkins (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5336/) and first baseman Jeff Conine (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4600/) was not enough to ease Tejada's frustration. But now that Flanagan has a content Tejada on board, he can focus on a different kind of deal.
"It hasn't made us work harder," Flanagan said, "it's made it harder to work."

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlgmM77Ug2ADDqSfdu2Qo1IRvLYF?slug=ap-orioles-tejada&prov=ap&type=lgns

[The Miz]

Tejada rescinds trade demand


BALTIMORE (AP) -- Miguel Tejada (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5888/) rescinded his demand to be traded by the Orioles, telling team officials during a phone call Saturday that he's willing to help Baltimore become a contender in the AL East.

lol, this is where I stopped reading

[YOUR Hero]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if he's boo'ed at Camden Yards... while still playing for them.

[The Miz]

If Weaver was willing to sign a one year deal, I'd think almost every team would suddenly become interested in him. Plus, I'd venture to say he'd get his 10 mil, if not more for that year.

You know, I completely forgot about the Jae Seo trade, the trade that practically guarantees Weaver won't be back in LA. Angels are always a possiblity; Jeff is an LA guy, his brother will play for them in 07, and he's probably better than 2 of their current 5 starters.

I don't see why anyone would give Weaver a 4/5 year deal, but I know Bill Stoneman won't. If he decides to settle for a 1 or 2 year I see him in Anaheim, if not San Diego and Cincinnati would be my next guesses

[YOUR Hero]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Marlins executives to talk with Portland officials about ballpark</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>January 6, 2006

MIAMI (AP) -- Florida Marlins (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/fla/) representatives plan to meet next week with Portland, Ore. officials about the team's possible relocation to the city in the event it can't get a baseball-only stadium in South Florida.
Marlins president David Samson will travel to Portland on Monday for a one-day visit, team spokesman P.J. Loyello said Friday. Samson will be accompanied by Marlins vice chairman Joel Mael and Claude Delorme, who is in charge of stadium development.
Since their inception in 1993, the Marlins have shared the Miami Dolphins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia/)' home, owned by Wayne Huizenga. The Marlins' lease with the stadium is in effect until 2007, and the team could move after that. If the team relocates, Las Vegas and Portland appear to be the early front-runners.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Au8ga0gui6mpmQ5cXxHZgTURvLYF?slug=ap-marlins-oregon&prov=ap&type=lgns

[YOUR Hero]

If anyone needs a pitcher, it's The Reds.

[CNM]

Tejada is nuts

[The Icon of Elisim]

What about the Phillies for Weaver?

[The Miz]

Cincinnati is pathetic. I think Claussen and Harang will have good years and Milton will bounce back somewhat, they're still probably the worst in the NL. I don't know their financial situation but almost any FA reliver would help.

[toxic rooster]

If anyone needs a pitcher, it's The Reds.

Have you seen the Tribe's rotation?

[The Miz]

What about the Phillies for Weaver?

They're not going to spend any more on starting pitching, they just blew $2.6 mil on a pitcher who has consistently led the league in HR allowed while pitching in the AL's best pitchers ball park. I can't wait to see Franklin get raped in Philly.

They're happy with Lieber/Myers/Wolf/Lidle/Franklin, which isn't too awful I suppose.

[The Miz]

Have you seen the Tribe's rotation?

:wtf:

[toxic rooster]

OK, they're not so bad. It's just my "not being a fan of Jason Johnson" thing shining through