Discussion: John Cena or Brock Lesnar as WWE Champion

[The Naitch]

Who had the better run as WWE Champion?

Now Cena ain't done yet, but if you were to compare Brock's run with what Cena has now and possibly even predict what will happen later, who's WWE Championship run was better?

Cena gets more points for crossover/mainstream appeal

[BigDaddyCool]

I don't know how that is even comparable.

[The Naitch]

BDC should be WWE Champion

[The Naitch]

not Kevin Nash btw

[The Naitch]

Brock Lesnar

-The way Brock won it, he gets more points since he went over The Rock and he won the title in a very short time (3month after he debuted)

-Defended the WWE Championship vs. The Undertaker and also went over huge in Hell In A Cell

-Turned face, and his first loss was to Big Show

-Won The Royal Rumble

-Main evented Wrestlemania 19 vs. Kurt Angle.


John Cena

-He won it at Wrestlemania 21, but it wasn't the main event

-Cena was over mainly due to his own abilities (mic work, charisma). He never really relied on huge wins over huge stars to get over, unlike Brock



-----

On paper, Brock loooks more successful. Huge wins at huge events.

But then again, Cena gains more points for crossover appeal.

[V]

I'd say Cena (not just cuz i'm a mark for him :shifty: )

I'll never forget how pissed off I was when Brock decided to go to smackdown screwing the undisputed championship that was supposed to be for both shows. I know that was actually Triple H's fault, but back then I was pissed just storyline wise.

When he beat The Rock (who held the title for like a month) for the title, he just didn't seem nearly as happy as Cena did at mania. I can't remember much of his reign, besides beating Taker Twice, then losing to big show (which was just bullshit btw). Maybe that's all his reign was, it was pretty short which sucked too.

Cena however, won at wrestlemania beating someone who had the title for a shit load of time, went on to beat jericho and christian, and then beat Jericho again. Now he is feuding with Kurt which is awesome. I'd say Cena's first reign is already better than Brocks.

I'm only considering their first reigns btw, if I was to include every reign Brock had, he'd obviously win but it would be unfair since Cena is only on his first run.

[Nark Order]

Brock by far

[The Naitch]

I'd say Cena (not just cuz i'm a mark for him :shifty: )

I'll never forget how pissed off I was when Brock decided to go to smackdown screwing the undisputed championship that was supposed to be for both shows. I know that was actually Triple H's fault, but back then I was pissed just storyline wise.

When he beat The Rock (who held the title for like a month) for the title, he just didn't seem nearly as happy as Cena did at mania. I can't remember much of his reign, besides beating Taker Twice, then losing to big show (which was just bullshit btw). Maybe that's all his reign was, it was pretty short which sucked too.

Cena however, won at wrestlemania beating someone who had the title for a shit load of time, went on to beat jericho and christian, and then beat Jericho again. Now he is feuding with Kurt which is awesome. I'd say Cena's first reign is already better than Brocks.

I'm only considering their first reigns btw, if I was to include every reign Brock had, he'd obviously win but it would be unfair since Cena is only on his first run.


For Brock, you should consider his first reign up until his last when he lost to Eddie Guerrero

As for Cena, he's still going, but I think he'll be holding it for a long time. He'll lose it before The Rumble, and then he'll enter The Rumble and then he'll go on to WrestleMania to win it back. Which is the standard formula in WWE. Although I have the feeling that Big Nose has other plans which may lead to Cena holding the title until Mania but losing it. I think a heel should win it this year since every year prior was the same random babyface coming out on top

[Favre4Ever]

Definitly Brock. His matches against Benoit and Cena towards the end of his reign sealed the deal.

[The Naitch]

Pros:

also, Cena has brought back life to the WWE Championship again, because obvisouly JBL totally devalued the damn thing.

And now that it's on RAW, the WWE Championship has become the "flagship title" so to speak

[V]

Well yeah if we consider all reigns, then obviously Brock. But like I said, it's too early to judge since Cena's on his first reign.

Brock had so many amazing wins, even though he screwed up the shooting star press at mania, it was still a HUGE win. He also beat Angle in a one hour iron man match for the title, even though it was on smackdown it was a big surprising win (unless you read spoilers).

Brock also had his down points though, his little stable with all those hosses was ridiculous, why was he beating up shannon moore everyday? Let's not forget his feud with bobcore where he stuck with big show for protection. I hated how goldberg costed him his title too.

Ironically, I LOVED his match with Cena at backlash (2001 I think), he really put Cena over even though he won.

[Nark Order]

Alot of people are in denile as to how good Lesnar actually was because of the whole leaving wrestling deal. Brock was extremely extremely good at what he did. One of the best IMO. His mic skills actually started improving towars the end of his run as well.

[The Naitch]

Cena will make more money for WWE though

[V]

Well he must have sold much more merchandise than Brock, cuz I only remember a "here comes the pain" shirt

Cena had so many really good t-shirts (first 2 word life ones, camoflouge "you can't see me", etc.) hats, chains (lock chain, chain gang chain) and so much other shit that had sold really well on shopzone/at events

I bet Brock has sold more payperviews/tickets SO FAR, but Cena shouldn't be too far behind

[Dave Youell]

If you compare the push they gave Lesner to the one Cena is getting now.

Value for money goes to Cena as they have had to invest less time and money to get him over because of his natural charisma, something Lesner does not have

[Funky Fly]

Cena title reign build up was nowhere near as good as Lesar's. Cena hasn't had ANY big wins. Cena hasn't been good on the mic since early '04. Lesnar has Cena beat on 2 of the 3.

[Pinnacle Charisma]

When Cena’s first title reign was finished I was going to start a thread on how I though his first title reign was a major disappointment. I still will but I will post some of my views now.

I loved Cena when he was a heel and his work as a face was good based on the fact that he acted like a us champ and a star so do not view this as the usual cena bashing crap.
He did not act like a WWE champion should this year. His promos where on the most part crap. He had no intensity and the crowd didn’t pop as much as they should of during a champions promo. Remember the Crowd hang on everyone of the rock and austin’s words.

His time on Raw in my view has been very disappointing. I felt that both Angle and Jericho had to carry Cena to decent feuds in both the promo and wrestling aspect. Most of this blame shouldn’t fall squarely on the shoulders of Cena the writers did not utilize him properly. On some episodes on Raw he was only on for less for 10 minutes in a 2 hour show. He is meant to the star of that show.

While I have never been a fan of Brock his title reign was good. He of course had the help of the messiah that is Paul Heyman. Brock on his own was good. His wrestling was excellent, his promos where good enough and he seemed ready. Brock held his own.


So in brief Brock first title reign >>>Cena title reign

[Loose Cannon]

are we comparing based on just wrestling or the business side of wrestling? If it's the ladder, then it's Cena no questions asked.

[Loose Cannon]

but I enjoyed Brock's run more.

[DarkAngel]

christian's first reign will be the best :shifty:

seriously though, it is basically impossible to say brock's many reigns weren't better than cena's reign which isn't even over yet

[The Naitch]

are we comparing based on just wrestling or the business side of wrestling? If it's the ladder, then it's Cena no questions asked.


all aspects

business
wrestling
entertainment value
etc etc

[The Naitch]

enough with this Christian shit. He'll never win the title so get over it already

[Pinnacle Charisma]

Has Cena really improved business though.

The buyrates for the ppv's he has mainevented have been special (exept for ss but that has been attributed to the Hogan-hbk match)


The ratings have been on the norm the same. Crowd attendance have been the same.

So what’s all this talk about Cena being good for business

[Nervous Ferret]

merch

[Dave Youell]

Has Cena really improved business though.

The buyrates for the ppv's he has mainevented have been special (exept for ss but that has been attributed to the Hogan-hbk match)


The ratings have been on the norm the same. Crowd attendance have been the same.

So what’s all this talk about Cena being good for business
And who within the past 4 years has managed to make a dent in those stats? Since Rock and Austin stopped full time it's been on a slide, no one has been able to stop it. So Cena can't be at blame for that

[Pinnacle Charisma]

And who within the past 4 years has managed to make a dent in those stats? Since Rock and Austin stopped full time it's been on a slide, no one has been able to stop it. So Cena can't be at blame for that



I was responding to people who have been saying Cena has been good for business or will be good for business. And those who are saying that crossover appeal is a plus. Crossover appeal does not make him more enjoyable only more popular and that hasnt made a dent in buyrates or attendance.

I dont blame Cena for not improving business. Very few champions over the last 10 years have been qualified as certified draws. Its a had thing to do. Im just debunking the theory that it should be used a plus for cena over Brock if he is good for business. And if he is not doing good business now when he is over as hell and has his own CD and a movie coming out when will he be good for business

[Mr. Nerfect]

I agree with Pinnacle Charisma, how the Hell has John Cena been better for business than Brock Lesnar? Cena hasn't "made it" to eternal superstardom yet contrary to what anyone thinks. He might get there one day, but right now he can't make a dent in The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Neither can Lesnar so it is a moot point.

I will say Brock Lesnar's reign(s) was better, simply because it was more organic, and it actually felt like the guy was WWE Champion, not "Management's Pet Champion" like Cena feels to me at the moment. Sure, Cena is a great wrestler and a great entertainer, but his reign has been very linear, and reletively predictable and protected by the WWE higher-ups. If he put on great title matches on RAW, and cut his own heart-filled promos, I think he might beat Lesnar, but until then, Brock gets the duke because his title reign actually felt contested at all times, and not like it was in cruise-control.

[Nark Order]

That fact that I've never even viewed Cena as a credible champion comes to mind. Hell, sometimes I even forget who the RAW champ is (really).

Lesnar was a credible champ whether he was heel or face. The guys had something good going for him.

[BigDaddyCool]

Cena, because fuck Brock.

[Loose Cannon]

Has Cena really improved business though.

The buyrates for the ppv's he has mainevented have been special (exept for ss but that has been attributed to the Hogan-hbk match)


The ratings have been on the norm the same. Crowd attendance have been the same.

So what’s all this talk about Cena being good for business

yea, cause ratings and PPV buys are the entire business side in wrestling.

[Loose Cannon]

I agree with Pinnacle Charisma, how the Hell has John Cena been better for business than Brock Lesnar? Cena hasn't "made it" to eternal superstardom yet contrary to what anyone thinks. He might get there one day, but right now he can't make a dent in The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Neither can Lesnar so it is a moot point.

just take a look at the dam crowd every single week. I NEVER EVER saw that kind of reaction for Brock and sea of people with Brock stuff everywhere. More then half the crowd has Cena signs, Cena shirts, Cena headbands, Cena writsbands, Cena hats, Cena figures. Cena was more over then Brock as a heel when Brock was heel and he is DEFINATELY more over then Brock ever was a babyface. Brock was not a very good babyface.

[Destor]

Brock was a horrible baby, the audience responded to him fairly well but nothing special. PPV buy rates did however increase during Leasnar's Initial title run as heel, to my knowledge SD! PPV's have not equaled his reins number consistency. Including Cena's heel run (not as champ of course) nor Cena's SD! PPV as champ. RAW PPV buy-rates haven't climbed any either, thus I give the nod to Brock in that category.

Cena definitely sells more merch as he is more marketable of course his rein has been baby. So merch is a no brainier. Cena. Tied one to one.

For me entertainment value and wrestling go hand and hand so this will be the final category, in my book. What I enjoy about Cena's wrestling is his pops and how he interacts with the crowd. He makes a solid effort to involve the fans in his every action, the classic baby face played to almost near perfection. When it comes time for PPV matches he really gets it done in a big way, and for that is a reason to watch the PPV's. But from Monday to Monday I have a very hard time watching the guy. I have yet to see him carry a feud let alone a singles, and that seriously worries me. A champion needs the ability to make anyone look good, irrelevant of who his opponent is. I do not know if Cena can do this. So maybe its a little to earlier do judge Cena there.

Brock Leasnar's mixture of speed, balance, power, and technique was amazing to watch coming from a man of his size. I felt like Brock gave everything he had every time I saw him go out to the ring and I still do. (Except the Goldberg match for obvious reasons.)

Ultimately this category comes down to personal bias, so for me Brock Leasnar was more successful during his first title rein.

[redoneja]

Brock Lesnar. At least Lesnar could wrestle, and didn't need mic skills and a cheap gimmick(yep I said it) to get over.

[Loose Cannon]

lol @ Brock not having a cheap gimmick to get over

Yea, The Next Big thing doesn't scream "silver pladder" at all. Cena took a shitty Vanilla Ice gimmick and did wonders with it, so I dunno what your talking about