Is It Time To Turn Cena Heel??

[PYRO-MANIAC]

Well i think it is, ive just been posting a reply to Kane Knight in the Usa/Spike topic and it made me think a lot about John Cena and how the WWE are using him, and how the fans are becoming bored of him.

If i was Vinnie Mac (scary thought i know) id have Cena turn heel, id have Cena change his music and have him only rap about himself - the cars he has, the houses he has, the girls he has, the dream job he has. All those things that could piss the average fan off. Id also have him tell the fans he's not a Hulk Hogan Wannabe and that he's "JOHN FUCKING CENA" he'd have to do that on a PPV or something but it could be done. Even if you just bleep it out it would still have an effect if Cena looked angry and like he was about to kill someone.

Id have him turn on the fans and tell them how they made him wack, how he changed for them but where did it get him? he won the title by himself he didn't need the fans. Have him talk about how your going to see a new John Cena, make him more like Eminem or 50 Cent give him a bad side to him, at the moment all we see is his good side but why not give him a bad side?

When i say a bad side i dont mean turn him into a gangster, im just saying make him rip into the fans much like Triple H does on tour. I think this could work well, granted it would have to be timed right for it to work but give Cena a bodyguard or a group that follows him around, just have him become someone the fans cant associate with. He has that much money, and everything else that he doesn't care about them anymore.

An edgy, and controversial John Cena could be just what the WWE needs. It would freshen his gimmick up and create a lot of hype on the internet. Oh and while im at it give him 5 or 6 new devastating moves to add to his moveset he currently has, just to freshen up his matches. :y:

Any opinions? :D

[Watson]

That's actually a pretty good idea. Not bad at all. The only thing is, there's very few top faces on RAW and turning Cena heel would reduce that number. But then again the top heels are getting quite boring. So yeah that idea would work well. They just need to push a talented babyface that's in in the mid-card/upper mid-card that isn't being used to their full potential to the main event. My vote goes for Nick Dinsmore. Without the Eugene gimmick of course. Obviously he is sick of it as is everyone else. Not to mention the fact that he's proved that he's good enough in the ring to be in a top spot. In my opinion anyway. Dinsmore pushed as a serious babyface to the main event and Cena turned heel, that could really freshen things up.

[GODSON]

WWE is stuck in a sticky situation.

Cena as heel=cheers
Cena as face=boos from half of the crowd

Even if he turns heel the fans will cheer for him because he is such a good heel. That's why I hate fans these days, can't make up their minds.

[PYRO-MANIAC]

That's actually a pretty good idea. Not bad at all. The only thing is, there's very few top faces on RAW and turning Cena heel would reduce that number. But then again the top heels are getting quite boring. So yeah that idea would work well. They just need to push a talented babyface that's in in the mid-card/upper mid-card that isn't being used to their full potential to the main event. My vote goes for Nick Dinsmore. Without the Eugene gimmick of course. Obviously he is sick of it as is everyone else. Not to mention the fact that he's proved that he's good enough in the ring to be in a top spot. In my opinion anyway. Dinsmore pushed as a serious babyface to the main event and Cena turned heel, that could really freshen things up.

:y:

Either that or wait to get Rob Van Dam back and have him come back as a super-face, im sure the fans would love RVD to be back in the main events, he is Mr Monday Night after all.

The Eugene idea is pretty good but im not sure how they could lose the Eugene 'retard' gimmick without turning him heel. :-\

[PYRO-MANIAC]

WWE is stuck in a sticky situation.

Cena as heel=cheers
Cena as face=boos from half of the crowd

Even if he turns heel the fans will cheer for him because he is such a good heel. That's why I hate fans these days, can't make up their minds.

Unless Cena was the kind of heel that takes the piss out of the fans every chance he gets, then they might not cheer him so much.

Its either turn him heel or make him a tweener just slightly in between a heel and face so that you the fans get the best of both worlds, it worked for Austin with the Lone-Wolf kind of gimmick.

Fans never know what they want, take Kane for instance he seems to get more pops when he's a heel because he's more bad ass and more convincing as a heel. Why dont the WWE take not of that and give him more of push as something thats not good but not bad either?

I dont like how everyone has to be a face or heel, some of Ric Flairs greatest moments have come from him being a tweener. When wrestlers are heel they have an edge to them that the fans love, but they become pussys when their faces, i think times have changed and people want to see more tweeners in wrestling.

[Cuzziebro]

Yeah i agree with everything you say about Heels and Faces but why change Cena why not just get rid of him as champ.

Dont get me wrong i dont mind Cena but i think his time is up, i think he has to let someone different to be champ. Its one of those things where the fans are getting sick of Cena but as soon as he loses his belt they will complain and say he didnt deserved to lose it.

They just need to push a talented babyface that's in in the mid-card/upper mid-card that isn't being used to their full potential to the main event.

What about Shelton Benjamin, he is one of THE most talented wrestlers in WWE i my belief. Why not give him a push for the WWE Championship Belt.
Benjamins matches are exciting because he always has some new athletic move each match.

Heres a thought Cena loses the belt and turns heel, Nick Dinsmore turns heel, they both turn on Eric Bischoff recruiting people against Eric. Therefore you get a Dinsmore out of the 'Retard' Gimmick.

[Destor]

I think (as in most face on face situations) the fans chose who they liked and it was HBK. Both times Cena got booed HBK was in the ring. When he was feuding with Kurt everything was fine so it has to be HBK. The crowd reaction should be back Monday.

Btw, where were they for RAW Monday and Taboo Tuesday? If it was Michaels country question answered.

To answer the thread title, no I do not believe it is time to turn him heel. Let him drop it face. Then play an angle where he keeps getting title matches and loosing, clean. Gets fet up with and aligns himself with the darkside OR starts cheating to win. Whichever works best.

[PYRO-MANIAC]

I think (as in most face on face situations) the fans chose who they liked and it was HBK. Both times Cena got booed HBK was in the ring. When he was feuding with Kurt everything was fine so it has to be HBK. The crowd reaction should be back Monday.

Btw, where were they for RAW Monday and Taboo Tuesday? If it was Michaels country question answered.

To answer the thread title, no I do not believe it is time to turn him heel. Let him drop it face. Then play an angle where he keeps getting title matches and loosing, clean. Gets fet up with and aligns himself with the darkside OR starts cheating to win. Whichever works best.


iPayOne Center, San Diego, CA

That was were Raw and Taboo Tuesday was. Im not sure if it has to do with HBK to be honest i mean he's popular but even he wasn't getting big pops from the crowd, it just seemed to me that no matter what Cena was doing be it trying to FU someone or getting on top of the match he got boo'd.

Also when Kurt had the ankle lock locked in the fans were cheering because they wanted Cena to tap out, this is a really bad sign for me and its sad because Cena loves the fans so its time for him to turn before things get awkward on TV. Might as well make the most out of a bad situation. :naughty:

[Destor]

What about Shelton Benjamin, he is one of THE most talented wrestlers in WWE i my belief. Why not give him a push for the WWE Championship Belt. Benjamin's matches are exciting because he always has some new athletic move each match. The problem with Benjamin is that, yes he is athletically gifted and I know everyone around here likes the wrestling side of things better, but there is more to wrestling then putting on good matches. He cant work the stick to save the biggest of Benjamin marks from falling asleep, and if you cant work the mic the WWE has a hard time progressing storylines. And ultimately, even his in ring work isn't ready for the main event. There's a hump some people got to get over, and Benjamin is standing at the bottom of it.

[Destor]

iPayOne Center, San Diego, CA

That was were Raw and Taboo Tuesday was. Im not sure if it has to do with HBK to be honest i mean he's popular but even he wasn't getting big pops from the crowd, it just seemed to me that no matter what Cena was doing be it trying to FU someone or getting on top of the match he got boo'd.

Also when Kurt had the ankle lock locked in the fans were cheering because they wanted Cena to tap out, this is a really bad sign for me and its sad because Cena loves the fans so its time for him to turn before things get awkward on TV. Might as well make the most out of a bad situation. :naughty:
Cheering Kurt? ass-backward crowds. Don't worry about 'em. when they go to a normal crowd you'll never notice this happend.

[BlackDawn2024]

I think (as in most face on face situations) the fans chose who they liked and it was HBK. Both times Cena got booed HBK was in the ring. When he was feuding with Kurt everything was fine so it has to be HBK. The crowd reaction should be back Monday.

Exactly. You try working a match with one of the most over performers in the company and see if you don't get boo'd, even if you're over yourself.

[Loose Cannon]

I don't get this at all. Cena gets booed a little for one match and all of a sudden he's getting X-pac heat to some, he's losing his fans to others and he should be turning heel.

Destor hit in on the head. Somefans picked HBK to cheer (it was still 50/50 though) and some chose Cena. That crowd is kind of a smark crowd at times anyway. They wanted to see Kurt/HBK and when Cena broke it up, some turned on him. He got cheered when he won the match though and that's what counts. I heard a shit load of cheers Monday Night when he came after Kurt, so I dunno where all this turning him heel stuff is coming from.

Let's wait a little more before jumping the gun. The guy is still more over then anybody in the company by a mile so it wouldn't be of there best interest.

What I think it's going to come down to inevitably is Cena/HHH. I certaintly do not want to see this at all, but I see it coming.

[Kane Knight]

I don't get this at all. Cena gets booed a little for one match and all of a sudden he's getting X-pac heat to some, he's losing his fans to others and he should be turning heel.

To be fair, this always happens. And Cena shoiuld have turned heel like a year ago.

[Anybody Thrilla]

What I think it's going to come down to inevitably is Cena/HHH. I certaintly do not want to see this at all, but I see it coming.

What do you think are the chances of Cena surviving Triple H? I know Cena as champ may be a bit stale by now, but Triple H as champ is downright spoiled.

[The Gooch]

I wouldn't mind Cena and HBK going at it for a few months leaving it up to the fans to decide the roles which they play. Both acting as tweeners would help the situation.

[Kane Knight]

I wouldn't mind Cena and HBK going at it for a few months leaving it up to the fans to decide the roles which they play. Both acting as tweeners would help the situation.

The only downside is it ties up the champ.

[Jaton]

Unless Cena was the kind of heel that takes the piss out of the fans every chance he gets, then they might not cheer him so much.

If he took my piss, I'd be much inclined to boo him.

[DarkAngel]

lol everyone is writing essays in this topic

simple answer from me: yes

[CharismaInjection]

Cena has become stale and too goody-two-shoes.

The Face Cena everyone loved was the one that used a chain to defeat Big Show at WMXX, and the one who destroyed Jesus at Armageddon 2004.

This Cena is pathetic.

Chris Jericho: You suck Cena, you're pathetic, you are crap.
New Cena: Ummm....okay...I'm gonna go...take care.

Old Cena: Well....*hits the shit out of Jericho with his chain then uses the chairs to destroy him*

Either turn him heel or back into the face-heel Cena.

[Destor]

How about leave him the way he is because he is drawing good money? No that wouldn't work because it's not the way you want it. (ftr I am not a Cena fan at all)

[Kane Knight]

who destroyed Jesus at Armageddon 2004.

Anyone else do a doubletake?

[Destor]

lol. Cena is the Anti-Christ

[Kane Knight]

How about leave him the way he is because he is drawing good money? No that wouldn't work because it's not the way you want it. (ftr I am not a Cena fan at all)

Or maybe they could make him get the bigger reactions he got when he first turned face, and sell more merchandise and maybe draw better. Maybe he could be an Austin-esque face, and still pul most of the shit people want him to do.

[Destor]

I'm for that. Improvement is always a good thing. What he is doing know is working, and well. I think a Austin esq-face is a bad idea at this juncture as Austin is (well was) on TV often. He does need something to separate himself from the other babies though. I was the rapping (did I just spell rape in the present tense?) but they have almost stopped that completely. But anti-hero isn't the way to go, imo.

[Johnny Vegas]

Yes, like someone said above..the guys (Cena) needs to be that badass babyface..it sickens me when the WWE tries to <b>FORCE</b> fans into liking a guy like Cena...trust me, if i cheered for him when he was talking shit and backing it up, then have him keep doing it..don't make him "wind down"..

It like how The Rock was on that episode of "This is your life" with Mankind...he didn't THANK mankind, didn't shake his hand, he was dissin Mankind and the guest the whole time!! And the fans ate that shit up like McDonalds..point. proven.

[BigDaddyCool]

maybe it is just time for him to drop the title to someone not HHH.

[Johnny Vegas]

Ya'll know i'm right. I'm your heart you know i'm right [/Juice]

[Favre4Ever]

It was time for Cena to turn heel six months ago.

[Loose Cannon]

What do you think are the chances of Cena surviving Triple H? I know Cena as champ may be a bit stale by now, but Triple H as champ is downright spoiled.

Well, just basically judging from past experience, I think Cena is fucked when he runs into HHH. Especially if he the cheers keep going down and down and down as we progress.

Now, I can see a couple of programs happening.

If Cena's cheers do start getting lower and lower, then it may be possible to do a double turn down the line. Kind of how Rock/Foley did thiers. Remember Foley was kind of siding with Vince in 98 and then it was all revealed that he was just being used to make way for Rock to go to Vince. Or they can even go Bret/Austin and just make Cena look like some whiney bitch to everyone. While the other guy looks like the badass everyone loves to cheer.

I definately can see Cena siding with like Bischoff or even a Teddy Long heel turn and Cena goes Thuganomics again would be cool.

Then you need a heel to turn. HHH? Angle? Or you can just bring someone like Batista over to save the day and he'll work Cena. The matches would be shit, but you would have nice storylines and stuff


OR

If they plan on keeping Cena face and plan on him going into Mania with the Title, then I see a heel (likely HHH) winning the Rumble and taking the Title off Cena at Mania.

[CSL]

<font color=white>Maybe it's time for a new gimmick and get away from this rap schtick. I really did like heel rapper John Cena but the face version is stale as hell now</font>

[mrslackalack]

Cena should turn heel. But WWE would prolly ruin it by bringing in Mark Wahlberg as Marky Mark to do a program with Cena lol.

[CSL]

Cena should turn heel. But WWE would prolly ruin it by bringing in Mark Wahlberg as Marky Mark to do a program with Cena lol.

<font color=white>SSSSSSSSSS!!!

And they could repackage the Mexicools as 'The Funky Bunch'!</font>

[McLegend]

LOL HHH still gets heat even though he has jobbed 4 times in a row when a tittle was on the line.

Cena still gets the biggest pop of the night just because he gets booed when he goes up against HBK and Angle is no reason to turn him yet.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I said this awhile back. Turn Cena into a heel styled after Cedric the Entertainers' character in Be Cool... Granted, I've even read the book, I just can't pull the name out right off hand.

Basically have him "sell out" be in it for the money, yet still try to act like a thug. Have him wear a jersey over a button up shirt, etc.

[CSL]

...Be Cool...

<font color=white>:-\ I've still not seen that film</font>

[mrslackalack]

Cena still gets the biggest pop of the night just because he gets booed when he goes up against HBK and Angle is no reason to turn him yet.[/QUOTE]

I agree if you put Cena against heels like HHH and Edge the crowd would pop for Cena big time. It was sort of like HBK when he attacked Hogan he played a heel and the crowd was 50/50 (except in Montreal) then the next night he got into the altercation with Masters and the crowd went crazy!

[RGWhat316]

I really couldn't stand Cena as a face for his last few months on SmackDown, but he got freshened up on RAW. But to me, he's gotten a little stale again. One reason why I wanted him on RAW was so that he wouldn't be censored as much doing his raps.

But since that first RAW he was on, the raps have been very minimal. And when he does rap, they're not as good as they used to be. His most recent rap was when a bunch of people tried to say they should be number 1 contender, and Cena basically called everyone gay.

I still think Cena is entertaining. Its just he was at his best when he was the tweener character. By saying some horrible things about his opponent and still getting cheered.

[Kane Knight]

I'm for that. Improvement is always a good thing. What he is doing know is working, and well. I think a Austin esq-face is a bad idea at this juncture as Austin is (well was) on TV often. He does need something to separate himself from the other babies though. I was the rapping (did I just spell rape in the present tense?) but they have almost stopped that completely. But anti-hero isn't the way to go, imo.

Anti-Hero is what made him big. He was most over as a rapping badass "heel."

[Destor]

This is very true, but it doesn't mean that he cant get something else as/more over. Less not forget that Sting was super over as a surfer type and then reinvented himself and got the next gimmick super over as well. Now I'm not suggesting that a complete repackaging is in order as much as I am giving an example that you can get something more over than you're original ascension to "super stardom" was.

[Funky Fly]

I still think he should have been doing his face gimmick from around SS 03. He was exactly the same as he was when he was heel, just that he was taking on heels. Then the writers took over his promos and raps and it all went to shit.

[Watson]

lol. Cena is the Anti-Christ

http://tpww.net/forums/showpost.php?p=916912&postcount=19

[Nark Order]

I wouldn't mind Cena at all if he didn't blatantly ask to be cheered so much (real recognizes real... and all of that stupid cheap pop bullshit) and actually added a couple more good moves to his arsenal. He just seems so stale to me. Every match is exactly the same. No innovation whatsoever.

I say he should be put over as a major heel. I just don't see this face run lasting too long in even the eyes of the marks. I would team him up with Austin in a match and have Cena just destroy him. He would get MAJOR heat and a program with Austin would SKYROCKET his career (If they can even get Austin back)

[Destor]

http://tpww.net/forums/showpost.php?p=916912&postcount=19
ROFL

[Shadow]

I say he should be put over as a major heel. I just don't see this face run lasting too long in even the eyes of the marks. I would team him up with Austin in a match and have Cena just destroy him. He would get MAJOR heat and a program with Austin would SKYROCKET his career (If they can even get Austin back)

That wouldn't make Austin walk off. Because as much as he hates working stupid programs...he does like trying to make people better. See Lance Storm for my example. Because I was really getting bored with the whole, "If I can be serious for a moment" crap.

[Kane Knight]

This is very true, but it doesn't mean that he cant get something else as/more over. Less not forget that Sting was super over as a surfer type and then reinvented himself and got the next gimmick super over as well. Now I'm not suggesting that a complete repackaging is in order as much as I am giving an example that you can get something more over than you're original ascension to "super stardom" was.

It's also not to say that they couldn't have repackaged Stone Cold Steve Austin as a superhero, but why fuck with success?

[Destor]

Thats the problem for me rigth there, the comparison to Austin. Cena needs to be the first John Cena and not the next Steve Austin.

[Kane Knight]

Thats the problem for me rigth there, the comparison to Austin. Cena needs to be the first John Cena and not the next Steve Austin.

I was using him as a point because he was successful.

Previously, I was using him to illustrate because the are clear parallels, such as his overness doing heelish things.

[Destor]

Well, what ever is over works for me, so either way is fine I suppose.

[Kane Knight]

Well, what ever is over works for me, so either way is fine I suppose.

I agree, but why take someone who is over and make him less so?

that's the only reason I bring up Austin. The Attitude era was largely successful because they ran with what was a huge character. They both were big as anti-heroes, and the angsty FTW attitude will always be possible. Popular. BIG.

Imagine if they had run with Austin and decided to make him say stuff just to get cheap pops. That's what they did with Cena: Take one of the biggest things since Sliced Bread (#2?) and dumb him down to some shmuck begging for fan reaction. Is he still over? Hell yes, he's not as big as he once was.

Cena is comparable to Austin because in a lot of people's eyes, he's the great white hope. He's the next big thing, the next superstar, the next face of wrestling. He's Hogan, or Austin or the Rock in essence, not because he's just like any of them, but because people think he's gonna change the face of wrestling and maybe make wrestling popular again. And they're nerfing him.

Granted, a lot of people think he's been ruined, and that's not totally true. He';s still got a huge response, but he should be the most over guy in the WWE, not getting booed against Michaels. God as Michaels has been, the past shouldn't be bigger than the present.

[Destor]

Well, I don't think they purposely hurt his reactions, I don't think there is a conspiracy to stop them from making more money. It's just bad booking. But I think I am provoking a completely different debate, so I'm just going to stop now.

[Kane Knight]

Well, I don't think they purposely hurt his reactions, I don't think there is a conspiracy to stop them from making more money. It's just bad booking. But I think I am provoking a completely different debate, so I'm just going to stop now.

I wasn't saying there was a conspiracy, just that they fucked him over.

[O.G Loc]

when i say cena you say weiner

[Kane Knight]

cena

[Kane Knight]

WEINER!

[Mr. Nerfect]

I am known to be one of the main supporters of the "Please let Chris Jericho win the Title"/"Please let Kurt Angle win the Title" ideals, but I am also one of the main supporters of John Cena's skill. The guy DOES NOT suck. His character is a pussy Grade 8 "I think I'm cool" kid, and management has watered down his wrestling like fuck, but the guy still has talent.

If the WWE let him cut his own promos, let him take direction of his own character (what got him over in the first place), and let him wrestle his OWN FUCKING MATCHES, John Cena COULD be a megastar.

Is it time to turn him heel? I don't think so. No, it's not because he's "the most over guy in the company", since the only people that really cheer John Cena are the loyal fans the WWE had to begin with. The reason why I think John Cena should remain face is that the WWE would probably have him act buddy-buddy to Triple H, then have them split-up and turn John Cena face again.

Now that you mention it, a John Cena/Triple H pairing could be entertaining in an Eddie Guerrero-Batista way. Cena can strike out against Triple H by trying to get into his head before Triple H decides to come for the title. Cena can help Triple H with his battles against Ric Flair, and Triple H can act like he truly appreciates John Cena, both guys know what is going on, a feud is inevitable, but Cena is playing it like it's coming, so he may as well be prepared.

Although you'd need talented writers to pull something like that off.

[CSL]

when i say cena you say weiner

<font color=white>Give this man a gold star!</font>

[Kane Knight]

And an A+++