So why exactly is Ric Flair IC champ?

[Londoner]

In the past few months, whoever has been booking Ric Flairs feud, has shown themselves to be total dickheads when it comes to booking feuds around titles.

What exactly was the point in putting the title on Ric Flair?It was fine when there was a feud between Shelton and Carlito but then what happened?I can't help but think HHH/Flair did something backstage in order to mess the Carlito/Shelton storyline up, in order to help Flair get the IC title for the first time.And lets be honest, if those two want to have their way around the place, the writers wont argue.But they have done as much as they can to bury the IC title in this feud imo,all through the cage match I heard comments like 'this is more than just being about the title!' it's that kind of thing that annoys me.

Now yes, the feud was more than just about the title, so why the fuck did the title come into the feud in the first place?If it was to build up the feud(which I think might've been the reason) then atleast have Flair lose it soon after, have HHH cost him the title to Masters or something, that would give Masters some good heel heat.I just don't see why the title is on Ric Flair and he's hardly ever defending it.Anyone agree?

[Volare]

i do, the IC title was supposed to give mid-carders something to go for. Flair having it is BS and why would Triple H want it... he's WWE championship material

let flair get "injured" and throw a IC tournament, we might get a couple of good matches out of it

[Pete]

fuck Ric Flair and his saggy old skin

[Dave Youell]

Giving Flair the title did a number of things:

Helped get him more over as a face

Elevated the title in theory as he's a former 16 champ (not the greatest argument granted)

The feud with HHH has given the belt a higher profile on the show

The fact that Flair has the title means that HHH won't go over, that's a great reason!

In short, Flair deserves something for his efforts in the WWE, the guys better now than he was 5 years ago when WCW was folding, which is incredible really considering his age. He can't really have the world title again, so this, this is like his world title 'thank you' run. Much like Hogan's last world title run.

After SS when the mid carders need feuds the title will be passed along again, but right now I don't really see a major problem with it being on Ric

[Volare]

my question is... who could go after flair for the title after Triple H??

Shelton
Carlito (i doubt it)
Masters (build up his rep if Flair puts him over)

anyone else??

[Dave Youell]

my question is... who could go after flair for the title after Triple H??

Shelton
Carlito (i doubt it)
Masters (build up his rep if Flair puts him over)

anyone else??
Conway would make sense given his Legends thing he was doing

[Volare]

true he could use a push...

anybody "new" you think might get a huge push out of this??

[Eunos]

Conway would make sense given his Legends thing he was doing

True. But he had his shot a few weeks ago.

I remember being pissed of that he lost.

But i agree the IC title should be for up and coming stars who are not far off the main event. Not Stars that have already gone the distance.

[BobBitchen]

fuck Ric Flair and his saggy old skin
Cound not agree more.Old peice of crap

[Kane Knight]

i do, the IC title was supposed to give mid-carders something to go for. Flair having it is BS and why would Triple H want it... he's WWE championship material

HHH will invoke the long-forgotten "Number One Contender" clause.

[Gertner]

yeah, Flair having the IC title sucks. especially when he's involved in a feud with HHH.

[FourFifty]

I, for one, still think Flair can get it done in the ring. No, he's not at his prime, but unlike Hogan I think Flair has come to terms with that... I mean, come on. You show me ONE man Flair's age who does what Flair does. There is only one space mountian.

Anywho, no championship, regardless of what Triple H want's you to think, can last forever. I think Rosey, Helms, Tajiri, Big Vis, or Chavo could hold the title, but the question is how do you get it off Flair without making Flair look like he's back in WCW/Totally stupid?

Have Triple H "injure" him... yeah... Put Triple H over and have him say he doesn't want the title... Minus 34 points for the IC title.

I would like to see Naich drop the title on his own. Cut a promo talking about how he's not in his prime (but space mountian is still open, baby! Woooo!) and say these are people who he scouted for the title. Make a tournament that happens either in one night Ala old school king of the ring, or spread it out over a month... But not a battle royal.

[Volare]

i can see it now Triple H v.s. some random person, HHH beats the hell out of em', now the person is gone due to injury and we have more space for the top tier wrestlers. (works for me)

[Xero]

Fuck Flair. At his age he has no right to hold any championship. I don't care what he's done. The title was doing fine until he came along and went into a feud where the title obviously means jack shit. If Flair doesn't put someone over in a HUGE way I am going to be pissed. And for some reason I see Triple H screwing Flair out of the title and having a potential feud completely nullified between Flair and the new champion.

I'm sure Hunter sees this feud as putting himself over much farther than he is just because he's going to beat his "former" best friend in a big match, who is "coincidentally" a former 16 time world champion.

It's the same with Hogan. He should have never won the WWE championship in his 2003 (2002?) run. If he came back for 2, 3 years solid, should he get the IC title and feud in a high profile feud where the title means jack shit? Fuck no.

Anyone who has retired and has come back past 50 should not be in a title scene. They should be managing and maybe putting over younger stars in non-title matches.

[Volare]

/ \
.|. yeah, what he said :yes:
.|.
.|.
.|.

[DarkAngel]

is the title on the line for their match at survivor series?

[Kane Knight]

I, for one, still think Flair can get it done in the ring. No, he's not at his prime, but unlike Hogan I think Flair has come to terms with that... I mean, come on. You show me ONE man Flair's age who does what Flair does. There is only one space mountian.

I, for one, think Flair is more entertaining than most of the wrestlers on TV right now. I think this is patently a BAD thing.

[Londoner]

Giving Flair the title did a number of things:

Helped get him more over as a face

Elevated the title in theory as he's a former 16 champ (not the greatest argument granted)

The feud with HHH has given the belt a higher profile on the show

The fact that Flair has the title means that HHH won't go over, that's a great reason!

In short, Flair deserves something for his efforts in the WWE, the guys better now than he was 5 years ago when WCW was folding, which is incredible really considering his age. He can't really have the world title again, so this, this is like his world title 'thank you' run. Much like Hogan's last world title run.

After SS when the mid carders need feuds the title will be passed along again, but right now I don't really see a major problem with it being on Ric

1) How does Flair need to get more over as a face?You hear endless 'woooo' chants whenever his matches are on.

2)That was the first thing that came to my mind when he won the title, but since then the IC title seems to of been forgotten about.Flair should atleast put the title on the line in his matches against people like Murdoch.(see this weeks Raw)That would give it credibility.

3)No it hasn't given it higher profile at all,imo.And thats the point. Basically, HHH is World Championship material, so we all know he doesn't care about the IC title, so that makes us care less about the title.The whole point in giving someone a title is to build a feud around it and make both wrestlers want it, in this feud, you can not seriously tell me that that is the case.

4)HHH will go over eventually, i can't see him winning at the PPV because Flair hasn't lost the title yet,(should've happened at the raw in the uk, but titles can't change hands outside of America without them changing back straight away).but just because Flair has the IC title, it doesn't mean that HHH wont go over.I think Flair will win at the PPV, then lose the title the night after thanks to HHH, and then HHH will go over Flair.

And as for your last argument, that is also what I was thinking, but again back to my point-they havent really used the title much in this feud have they?Listen to the cage match and hear the commentators saying "this is more than just about the title!"

[McLegend]

Giving Flair the IC title is one of the best things WWE has done in years.

[Volare]

but the thing is who is going to beat flair? it's gotta be done in a way that makes it look credable BUT it's gotta be somewhat "real" to the eyes of the fans, that's gonna be a fun one to pull off

and i dont think Carlito could do that.

[Londoner]

is the title on the line for their match at survivor series?


Funnily enough,no.

[Londoner]

but the thing is who is going to beat flair? it's gotta be done in a way that makes it look credable BUT it's gotta be somewhat "real" to the eyes of the fans, that's gonna be a fun one to pull off

and i dont think Carlito could do that.

It's got to be Masters.

[Londoner]

Giving Flair the IC title is one of the best things WWE has done in years.


I hope you're being sarcastic.:wtf:

[Volare]

:rofl: :rofl: no kidding:rofl: :rofl:

[Volare]

cmon man, that's like saying let's give eugene the WWE title

[McLegend]

I hope you're being sarcastic.:wtf:
Nope.

Did you see his reaction when he won it? The crowd went crazy it was good for the title to get attention like that.

[Xero]

cmon man, that's like saying let's give eugene the WWE title
Hey, they gave it to one retard...

[McLegend]

cmon man, that's like saying let's give eugene the WWE title
Yes cause Eugene and Ric Flair are on the same level :roll:

[Volare]

same level as in WWE wise? cause it sure as hell aint Style'in and Profile'in WOOOOooooo

[Londoner]

Nope.

Did you see his reaction when he won it? The crowd went crazy it was good for the title to get attention like that.

And once again no matter how many times i say my point, someone misses it.....:roll:

[Volare]

Hey, they gave it to one retard...

LMAO:lol:

[McLegend]

I missed it. What was it?

[Londoner]

Er, here's a tip legend: Try reading what i actually wrote!

[McLegend]

Of course it gave it a higher profile. He defended it against HHH at Taboo Tuesday in a very good Cage match.

Also does it matter since Carlito did absoulty nothing with the title, and Ric Flair is actaully doing something with it?

[Xero]

If Triple H turned face he'd get a huge pop too. So by your logic, if Hunter/Hogan/Austin won a title it would be the greatest thing the WWE has done in years if they get a title?

Where were you in 2004?

[Kane Knight]

1) How does Flair need to get more over as a face?You hear endless 'woooo' chants whenever his matches are on.

2)That was the first thing that came to my mind when he won the title, but since then the IC title seems to of been forgotten about.Flair should atleast put the title on the line in his matches against people like Murdoch.(see this weeks Raw)That would give it credibility.

3)No it hasn't given it higher profile at all,imo.And thats the point. Basically, HHH is World Championship material, so we all know he doesn't care about the IC title, so that makes us care less about the title.The whole point in giving someone a title is to build a feud around it and make both wrestlers want it, in this feud, you can not seriously tell me that that is the case.

4)HHH will go over eventually, i can't see him winning at the PPV because Flair hasn't lost the title yet,(should've happened at the raw in the uk, but titles can't change hands outside of America without them changing back straight away).but just because Flair has the IC title, it doesn't mean that HHH wont go over.I think Flair will win at the PPV, then lose the title the night after thanks to HHH, and then HHH will go over Flair.

And as for your last argument, that is also what I was thinking, but again back to my point-they havent really used the title much in this feud have they?Listen to the cage match and hear the commentators saying "this is more than just about the title!"

1. Yeah, people already wanted to cheer him because he's a name in a sea of useless n00bs.

2. They haven't forgotten about it, they've just ignored actually defending it. Now Benjamin, they've forgotten about.

3. IT's the whole "big names=credibility" thing. Even though we know he doesn't want or need the title, doesn't care, and is gunning for Flair only because it's a good way to get on TV.

[Volare]

but sooner or later he's gotta pass it on, that's why i stated in the first few posts that there should be a IC tourny and that way we might get some good matches out of it plus it could be given to a person that "BAH-GAWD!!, HE NEVER QUIT!!" (lol)

[Xero]

Of course it gave it a higher profile. He defended it against HHH at Taboo Tuesday in a very good Cage match.

Also does it matter since Carlito did absoulty nothing with the title, and Ric Flair is actaully doing something with it?
What's Flair doing with it? Feuding with someone who doesn't need nor want (EVEN IN THE STORYLINES) the IC title? Bullshit.

[Kane Knight]

Nope.

Did you see his reaction when he won it? The crowd went crazy it was good for the title to get attention like that.

The crowd also pops pretty good for Scotty 2 Hotty. Doesn't mean we should book him to win a belt.

Hell, I was to events before Long became a personality where he got bigger pops than the actual wrestlers. Shall we put the title on a ref, and make it the greatest day ever?

[Volare]

Xero and I on the same page, that's SCARY!!! :lol:

[Londoner]

You've missed the point again,legend. As i mentioned before, Carlito was about to have a match with Shelton at summerslam, and then what happened eh?We were all confused as to wtf they were doing with the ic title, and now we know the answer, Flair and HHH were using there powers backstage in order to find a way to start up their feud, thats what I think anyway.Oh and you call 'not defending the title in a last man standing match against HHH' doing something with the title?Er, ok. If you say so.:)

A title only matters in a feud where both wrestlers care about it, as I said before and I'll say again, HHH doesn't care about the title.You can't seriously tell me that he does.I'll just laugh at you.

[McLegend]

If Triple H turned face he'd get a huge pop too. So by your logic, if Hunter/Hogan/Austin won a title it would be the greatest thing the WWE has done in years if they get a title?

Where were you in 2004?
If HHH were to get the title it wouldn't be that bad either. It would give it more attention to the IC title, and give instant credibility to the wrestler who would end up beating HHH.

[Volare]

I was to events before Long became a personality where he got bigger pops than the actual wrestlers. Shall we put the title on a ref, and make it the greatest day ever?

well i do remember the 2 refs having a match....

[McLegend]

You've missed the point again,legend. As i mentioned before, Carlito was about to have a match with Shelton at summerslam, and then what happened eh?We were all confused as to wtf they were doing with the ic title, and now we know the answer, Flair and HHH were using there powers backstage in order to find a way to start up their feud, thats what I think anyway.Oh and you call 'not defending the title in a last man standing match against HHH' doing something with the title?Er, ok. If you say so.:)

A title only matters in a feud where both wrestlers care about it, as I said before and I'll say again, HHH doesn't care about the title.You can't seriously tell me that he does.I'll just laugh at you.
The title was getting no attention on Carlito, and a little attention is better then no attention at all.

Also Flair said him winning the IC title was more important then any of the 16 times he won the world title. If he meat that or not it doesn't matter. He gave the IC title a pretty nice rub with that comment.

[Xero]

If HHH were to get the title it wouldn't be that bad either. It would give it more attention to the IC title, and give instant credibility to the wrestler who would end up beating HHH.
And then they'd drop it to someone who the marks don't give a shit about and that will be that.

Or he'd drop it to someone like Flair...

[Londoner]

1. Yeah, people already wanted to cheer him because he's a name in a sea of useless n00bs.

2. They haven't forgotten about it, they've just ignored actually defending it. Now Benjamin, they've forgotten about.

3. IT's the whole "big names=credibility" thing. Even though we know he doesn't want or need the title, doesn't care, and is gunning for Flair only because it's a good way to get on TV.

2-I don't think they've forgotten about Benjamin,more like they've just ran out of superstars for him to face at SS, I like his mini feud at the moment with Angle, if Angle wins at SS, that could set up a tirple threat match between Angle/Shelton&Cena.(yeah, I wish...)

3)It doesn't really give the title much credibility though if its not the main focus of the feud.I don't care how big a name a wrestler is in this case.

[Volare]

I agree with TL... do you think HHH will want to be on the mic bragging about he is the Best IC champ there ever was?? Fuck No!!! he probably is figuring a way to face cena or angle for the title soon

[McLegend]

And then they'd drop it to someone who the marks don't give a shit about and that will be that.

Or he'd drop it to someone like Flair...
People would care about the person that beat HHH. They did care about Shelton for a little while after he beat HHH.

[Volare]

when he became Mr. Benjamin (which i think he could've done well with)

[Londoner]

The title was getting no attention on Carlito, and a little attention is better then no attention at all.

Also Flair said him winning the IC title was more important then any of the 16 times he won the world title. If he meat that or not it doesn't matter. He gave the IC title a pretty nice rub with that comment.

I'll remind you for the Carlito/Shelton feud again.Remember when Shelton had a couple of chances to get the title off of Carlito and Carlito got himself counted out/dq'ued?That was a perfect set up for the match at SS that never happened.So it was getting attention.

You are correct that when he said that, that did put the title over massively, but if its so important, why isn't it the main focus of a feud?Answer that.

[Xero]

People would care about the person that beat HHH. They did care about Shelton for a little while after he beat HHH.
There's the problem. Shelton beat Triple H and then went right back to where he was within a month. Beating Hunter isn't a good thing right now. If anything, not facing Hunter in any match is a good thing. If you're feuding with Hunter, and even if you go over, you're going to go no where fast.

This is a little off topic, but who has Hunter put over lately who has STAYED over that wasn't his friend backstage. Batista and Flair are off the list because they're friends with Hunter.

[Volare]

**crickets chirping**

[McLegend]

I'll remind you for the Carlito/Shelton feud again.Remember when Shelton had a couple of chances to get the title off of Carlito and Carlito got himself counted out/dq'ued?That was a perfect set up for the match at SS that never happened.So it was getting attention.

You are correct that when he said that, that did put the title over massively, but if its so important, why isn't it the main focus of a feud?Answer that.
Your right it's not the main focus, but I don't think it hurts the title. Giving the title to Flair now was better then keeping it on Carlito since that Shelton feud was dropped for some reason.

[Kane Knight]

The title was getting no attention on Carlito, and a little attention is better then no attention at all.

Not when that attention capitolises how little it means.

[McLegend]

There's the problem. Shelton beat Triple H and then went right back to where he was within a month. Beating Hunter isn't a good thing right now. If anything, not facing Hunter in any match is a good thing. If you're feuding with Hunter, and even if you go over, you're going to go no where fast.

This is a little off topic, but who has Hunter put over lately who has STAYED over that wasn't his friend backstage. Batista and Flair are off the list because they're friends with Hunter.
Nice way to elimate my biggest option in Batista. Since he put Batista over huge, and put him over more then anyone has been put over in years.

[Londoner]

Nice way to elimate my biggest option in Batista. Since he put Batista over huge, and put him over more then anyone has been put over in years.

Well since they're friends, its hardly surprising.But anyhow, what happened when HHH put Batista over?Batista got sent to Smackdown.:lol:

[McLegend]

Not when that attention capitolises how little it means.
Even if it's on Ric Flair?

[Kane Knight]

People would care about the person that beat HHH. They did care about Shelton for a little while after he beat HHH.

And they weren't even able to sustain it with a charismatic and athletic individual. So what gain is there?

[Londoner]

Your right it's not the main focus, but I don't think it hurts the title. Giving the title to Flair now was better then keeping it on Carlito since that Shelton feud was dropped for some reason.

Ofcourse it hurts the title, i know you're not going to accept that in order to keep your argument going, but if a title isn't the main focus of a feud,it's hardly doing much good.

[Kane Knight]

Even if it's on Ric Flair?

What does it being on Flair have to do with it? Do you think casual fans give a shit that this geezer once meant something to a bunch of retarded smarks?

[Volare]

on putting Triple H over....honetly IMO that's about it, orton really dosent count since he won the title back anyways

[Xero]

Nice way to elimate my biggest option in Batista. Since he put Batista over huge, and put him over more then anyone has been put over in years.
Like TL said, since they're friends, it's not surprising. Hunter could put X Pac over as well, but does that mean that he's doing it for the good of the business or the good of his friends?

[McLegend]

What does it being on Flair have to do with it? Do you think casual fans give a shit that this geezer once meant something to a bunch of retarded smarks?
Yes I do

[McLegend]

All I'm saying is giving the title to Flair was better then keeping it on Carltio.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, you could have actually built up some new talent like the belt is supposed to do, or you can slap it on a guy as a "thank you" for still being a part of the business. You made the right choice. Nobody wants to elevate new talent when they can have a feud that goes nowhere.

[Londoner]

So giving the title to a guy whos past his best is better than giving it to rising superstar?

[Xero]

All I'm saying is giving the title to Flair was better then keeping it on Carltio.
What about Shelton? Helms? Kane? Snitsky? Masters? Edge? Big Show?

Many wrestlers could have benefited greatly from receiving the title.

[McLegend]

Yeah, you could have actually built up some new talent like the belt is supposed to do, or you can slap it on a guy as a "thank you" for still being a part of the business. You made the right choice. Nobody wants to elevate new talent when they can have a feud that goes nowhere.
Yeah, but the Shetlon feud went nowhere. Carlito was doing less with it then Flair is now. If they would have kept the feud going and brought someone up to feud with Carltio then that would have been great probably even better then Flair winning, but that wasn't happening for some reason. So if the title and the person holding it is going no where right now you mine as well put it on somebody like a Flair to give it some attention.

[Volare]

i think i agree with the "master's option" he could use the push or in the future be a bid for a title shot

[Londoner]

If Carlito still had the IC title, imagine how much more established he would've been by now.

[Pepsi Man]

Meh, I got tired of reading the responses when a lot of them were all the same, but frankly, I've never been the biggest fan of Flair, but you have to respect what he brings to the table when he comes out there, even in his old age. Frankly, Flair having the title gives the title some more prestige than it had when Carlito was barely defending it. As for whoever said Flair was "barely" defending it, he's defended it against Triple H, Rob Conway, and Trevor Murdoch in the last month. I'd say considering the brand split, that's a reasonable amount of title defenses.

As for the title "not being what the match was all about" at Taboo Tuesday, it's been done before. They're not really burying the Intercontinental Title by saying that. They're putting over the personal animosity way more than they're burying the title. I mean, I don't think anyone out there is really going to expect the EXACT same level of passion to go into the Intercontinental Title that goes into the World Title.

Still, I don't have a problem with it. As for how you can get it off of him, it's really easy. Whether he reverts to his heel was or remains a face is irrelevant. Given Flair's age, especially, it really wouldn't hurt his credibility too much if just about anyone on the roster just pulled off the "huge upset" over him one night, cleanly.

Of course, he could give it to Triple H, too, and Triple H has been known for having a minor title after having the World Title and dropping it when the time is right. As much as I don't like Shelton Benjamin, it would make sense for Shelton to get yet another win over The Game to take it. Then you could have someone like Viscera or Val Venis win it with help from the other or something (or unsolicited help from Flair). There's Chavo Guerrero who could probably stand to be pushed. As cold as it is to say, now's the time to push Chavo as never before, because no one is ever going to want to see Chavo succeed big as they do right now.

Also, don't strip Flair of the title or have him vacate it or anything like that. I hate it when that happens to titles. It kind of hurts their legacy to me, albeit just a little bit. I'd rather see Flair lose it in the ring, even if it's at a house show. Anyway, that's my cent and a half.

[Stickman]

Here's how I see it. I feel Ric Flair has a great presence about him. Shit, when his music hits, he walks out in the sparkly robe, the ref opens the ropes for him, he gets in the ring, he poses, reveals his belt. He looks like what a champion should look like. No I don't mean his wrinkly bitch tits. He just has that Aura about him. Every time he comes to the ring he looks important. His gimmick is to look like a star. He reveals his robe and there's the IC Belt. The belt now looks important, it looks like something to fight for.

OR.... here come carlito wearing a shirt that appeals to toddlers.
Or.... Here comes Shelton, a great talent with no gimmick.
You really want two guys that dont' have the "look" or the story to walk down to the ring with no pyro or anything that makes him look important?

I think Ric Flair has elevated the title.

HHH fighting for the belt elevated the title.

YOu watch. Flair will lose it soon enough and it'll be on some guy like Carlito or Helms or somebody like that. I bet the majority of the fans stop caring about that belt and we talk again about how the belt is being poorly booked.

[Londoner]

Pepsi man-the reaosn alot of the repsonses were the same was because legend just could not get what the point was.I hate repeating myself, but when people ask the same questions, you kinda have no choice.

How are they not burying the IC title though?The last man standing match isn't even going to be for the IC title.Which 1)holds back the roster for even longer, someone like Shelton(as you said) could be having a good run with it right now. And 2) wastes the potential of the IC title.

Triple H will never have the IC title though, it would make no sense.

And I agree with you're last point.The only three people i can see beating Flair though are-Shelton/Carlito(to restore any credibility he lost when losing to Flair) and Masters.

[Londoner]

Here's how I see it. I feel Ric Flair has a great presence about him. Shit, when his music hits, he walks out in the sparkly robe, the ref opens the ropes for him, he gets in the ring, he poses, reveals his belt. He looks like what a champion should look like. No I don't mean his wrinkly bitch tits. He just has that Aura about him. Every time he comes to the ring he looks important. His gimmick is to look like a star. He reveals his robe and there's the IC Belt. The belt now looks important, it looks like something to fight for.



I am sick of repeating myself but, HHH doesn't care about the IC title so him fighting for it is meaningless, and how is the title important when it isn't on the line at SS?Read the posts people for fuck sake.:roll:

[Pepsi Man]

Pepsi man-the reaosn alot of the repsonses were the same was because legend just could not get what the point was.I hate repeating myself, but when people ask the same questions, you kinda have no choice.

How are they not burying the IC title though?The last man standing match isn't even going to be for the IC title.Which 1)holds back the roster for even longer, someone like Shelton(as you said) could be having a good run with it right now. And 2) wastes the potential of the IC title.

Triple H will never have the IC title though, it would make no sense.

And I agree with you're last point.The only three people i can see beating Flair though are-Shelton/Carlito(to restore any credibility he lost when losing to Flair) and Masters.
They're not burying the title, because now, at least it's being used, unlike it was during Carlito's run, overall. I thought it was ridiculous that SummerSlam didn't have an Intercontinental Title defense.

I haven't heard for sure that the Last Man Standing Match isn't for the title, but if it's not, it doesn't really matter all that much. One night of the title not being on the line was never a title killer back in the old days, and it's not now, at least in my opinion. Hell, Flair could have the hell beaten out of him and want to take time off, only for Bischoff to order Flair to defend it on Raw, threatening to strip him. Have a broken Flair come to the ring, and voila, instant win for the opponent, and even in those circumstances, beating Flair means something, especially with the buildup he's gotten this year. He's beaten Christian, Triple H, Carlito, Rob Conway, etc.

As for Triple H not having the title because it "wouldn't make sense", I could easily see it making sense, but even if it doesn't, how has not making any sense stopped anything from happening in wrestling in the past?

I don't think Carlito necessarily needs the title back FROM FLAIR to restore any credibility he might have lost, but a win over Flair at SOME point down the road certainly wouldn't hurt.

[Pepsi Man]

I am sick of repeating myself but, HHH doesn't care about the IC title so him fighting for it is meaningless, and how is the title important when it isn't on the line at SS?Read the posts people for fuck sake.:roll:
When did Triple H say he didn't care about the Intercontinental Title? Triple H is a multiple time Intercontinental Champ.

[Stickman]

I am sick of repeating myself but, HHH doesn't care about the IC title so him fighting for it is meaningless, and how is the title important when it isn't on the line at SS?Read the posts people for fuck sake.:roll:

I think you're missing the point. The WWE caters to the marks, not us. To the marks, the title looks good. Marks couldn't give two shits about the last two IC Champs. They only care about the guy that it's on. By having it on what looks like a star, the fans may start caring again. If somebody reputable beats Flair, they'll think this guy his hot shit because he beat a good champ. Continue that process, maybe have Flair win it back once, then to the marks, they start remembering that the current champ beat a good former champ.

Fans cared when Orton was the champ. When he lost it, fans stopped caring until now. Why? Because a star is holding it.

[Xero]

When did Triple H say he didn't care about the Intercontinental Title? Triple H is a multiple time Intercontinental Champ.
He hasn't said that he wants it, either. Do you honestly think that if the title wasn't on Flair that Triple H would be gunning for the IC title?

[Londoner]

When did Triple H say he didn't care about the Intercontinental Title? Triple H is a multiple time Intercontinental Champ.


He doesn't have to say it, but he said something like he couldn't believe his eyes when he saw Ric Flair settling for mediocrity-which was talking about Flair winning the IC title,so why would HHH want to settle for the title after he said that?He's world championship material anyway, he doesn't need it.

[Pepsi Man]

He hasn't said that he wants it, either. Do you honestly think that if the title wasn't on Flair that Triple H would be gunning for the IC title?
He hasn't mentioned that he wants the WWE Title since his return either. I don't see where not completely absorbing yourself with winning a title means you don't care about it.

[Londoner]

I think you're missing the point. The WWE caters to the marks, not us. To the marks, the title looks good. Marks couldn't give two shits about the last two IC Champs. They only care about the guy that it's on. By having it on what looks like a star, the fans may start caring again. If somebody reputable beats Flair, they'll think this guy his hot shit because he beat a good champ. Continue that process, maybe have Flair win it back once, then to the marks, they start remembering that the current champ beat a good former champ.

Fans cared when Orton was the champ. When he lost it, fans stopped caring until now. Why? Because a star is holding it.

Fans stopped caring because the writers couldn't think of a storyline for Shelton.I remember making posts saying that Shelton hasn't being given a proper storyline,the fact is people were bored because the writers weren't doing anything with it.And then when they actually started to do something with it and give Shelton a storyline with Carlito, they scrapped it.God knows why, maybe KK was right, maybe they have actually forgot about Shelton.

[Pepsi Man]

He doesn't have to say it, but he said something like he couldn't believe his eyes when he saw Ric Flair settling for mediocrity-which was talking about Flair winning the IC title,so why would HHH want to settle for the title after he said that?He's world championship material anyway, he doesn't need it.
Of course he doesn't "need" it, but frankly, few guys could really say they "need" just about ANY title.

You do make a decent point, finally, though, but perhaps Triple H is now out to be the man that brings that title "out of mediocrity". Come on, have some imagination.

[Volare]

but the thing is...the title is on someone who is in an upperclass. the IC belt was mainly for mid-carders and for their seperate group. Now that you have an upper-class wrestler holding on to it. it makes it look like crap when it goes back down into the mid-card range

[Londoner]

Of course he doesn't "need" it, but frankly, few guys could really say they "need" just about ANY title.

You do make a decent point, finally, though, but perhaps Triple H is now out to be the man that brings that title "out of mediocrity". Come on, have some imagination.


I have imagination thanks very much, but I also have common sense, which is something you seem to lack.:yes:

[Pepsi Man]

Fans stopped caring because the writers couldn't think of a storyline for Shelton.
I'll always recognize a good point when I see one, regardless of how I personally feel about the matter, and this was a good point.

[Pepsi Man]

I have imagination thanks very much, but I also have common sense, which is something you seem to lack.:yes:
You have common sense? Seriously? You haven't shown it. Also, great job on resorting into turning this into personal attacks rather than a discussion about professional wrestling.:y:

but the thing is...the title is on someone who is in an upperclass. the IC belt was mainly for mid-carders and for their seperate group. Now that you have an upper-class wrestler holding on to it. it makes it look like crap when it goes back down into the mid-card range
Ex World Champs have held the title before, as well as upper card guys. If done right, it actually elevates not just the title, but the next champion, while not doing much damage to the character of the champion.

[Volare]

do you really expect Triple H to start dropping out of the main event status??

Yeah..that's it... the Main Event is for the IC Belt :rofl:

[Londoner]

You have common sense? Seriously? You haven't shown it. Also, great job on resorting into turning this into personal attacks rather than a discussion about professional wrestling.:y:


Ex World Champs have held the title before, as well as upper card guys. If done right, it actually elevates not just the title, but the next champion, while not doing much damage to the character of the champion.


Weak comeback dude, though it was a joke.Notice I used the :yes: which i thought implied it was meant to be a joke.

[Volare]

TL is right though. you gotta be real about triple H he just isnt into it

[Pepsi Man]

do you really expect Triple H to start dropping out of the main event status??

Yeah..that's it... the Main Event is for the IC Belt :rofl:
He's done it before for a while. Hell, he hasn't been in the main event for the entire second half of this year. He could have a run with the Intercontinental Title (or be in one of any number of other feuds or situations) and still go back to main eventing within a month or two.

[Pepsi Man]

Weak comeback dude, though it was a joke.Notice I used the :yes: which i thought implied it was meant to be a joke.
Okay, so that particular smilie means everything's a joke? So if I said you're a complete and utter douchebag who knows fuckall about pro wrestling or anything else for that matter, then included :yes: , it'd be okay, because it was a "joke"?

[Londoner]

He hasn't been in the main event because he's been away for the second half of the year since he finished with Batista.

[Londoner]

Okay, so that particular smilie means everything's a joke? So if I said you're a complete and utter douchebag who knows fuckall about pro wrestling or anything else for that matter, then included :yes: , it'd be okay, because it was a "joke"?

Man comedown and get back on topic, you left yourself open to the insult anyway by saying HHH could become IC champ.

[Pepsi Man]

He hasn't been in the main event because he's been away for the second half of the year since he finished with Batista.
Yeah, and here he's been working with Ric Flair and on Raws, having matches with guys like Viscera and Val Venis. Real main event spotlight hogging going on THERE.

[Pepsi Man]

Man comedown and get back on topic, you left yourself open to the insult anyway by saying HHH could become IC champ.
You're the one that brought it off topic. Why exactly couldn't Triple H become Intercontinental Champion? For that matter, how long have you been following professional wrestling?

[Londoner]

Oh god here we go.You know after you actually recognized i made a good point, my opinion about you changed and I thought you were a poster who i could have a decent debate with, but now it seems I was wrong eh?

And to answer your question pepsi man, i've been following it for almost 6 years(since no way out 2000 to be exact) but I dont' see how that matters?

[Londoner]

Yeah, and here he's been working with Ric Flair and on Raws, having matches with guys like Viscera and Val Venis. Real main event spotlight hogging going on THERE.

Matches?MATCHES?haha. You call them matches? He beat Viscera in 5 seconds, he got himself dq'ued against val venis, so you can hardly call them serious matches.

[Pepsi Man]

Oh god here we go.You know after you actually recognized i made a good point, my opinion about you changed and I thought you were a poster who i could have a decent debate with, but now it seems I was wrong eh?

And to answer your question pepsi man, i've been following it for almost 6 years(since no way out 2000 to be exact) but I dont' see how that matters?
That's still long enough that you should remember Triple H's Intercontinental Title runs in 2001, which happened AFTER multiple World Title reigns. I'll always recognize a good point when one's made, but I don't see one here, and I don't see that attitude from you either, overall.

[Pepsi Man]

Matches?MATCHES?haha. You call them matches? He beat Viscera in 5 seconds, he got himself dq'ued against val venis, so you can hardly call them serious matches.
Way to miss the point. The irony with this is incredible.

[Londoner]

Maybe you should look through the thread properly and read the points ive made?Notice quite a few agree with me.

And yes I remember those IC title runs, but the only reason he did that was because Stone Cold was the champ instead, and they were both tag champs to.So it didn't harm triple H in anyway to settle for the IC title.

[Londoner]

Way to miss the point. The irony with this is incredible.

You called them matches and used them to show that HHH hasn't been main eventing. That made me laugh that you called them matches.I don't think i've missed the point here.

[Pepsi Man]

Maybe you should look through the thread properly and read the points ive made?Notice quite a few agree with me.

And yes I remember those IC title runs, but the only reason he did that was because Stone Cold was the champ instead, and they were both tag champs to.So it didn't harm triple H in anyway to settle for the IC title.
It didn't?:eek:

Shit, in that situation, if anything, I would say he was more hurt than he would if he went out and battled for the Cruiserweight Title now (I know he's not a cruiserweight, so please don't waste your time with bringing that to my attention.). He was playing second fiddle.

Are you telling me that Triple H (character wise, especially) didn't WANT to be the World Champion just because he was holding the Intercontinental Title? Hell, if the Intercontinental Champion doesn't want to be the World Champion, why is the Intercontinental Champion so often in the Royal Rumble?

Steve and Triple H also didn't have the Tag Title when Triple H first defeated Jericho for the strap.

[Volare]

then again that's when it was all 1 roster and now you a handfull of headliners, and a shitload of mid-carders

[Pepsi Man]

You called them matches and used them to show that HHH hasn't been main eventing. That made me laugh that you called them matches.I don't think i've missed the point here.
And THAT makes ME laugh.

[Pepsi Man]

then again that's when it was all 1 roster and now you a handfull of headliners, and a shitload of mid-carders
A lot of the same basic principles of professional wrestling still apply.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Triple H >>>> Flair


Kthxbai.

[Londoner]

What made you laugh exactly?

Anyhow,ofcourse HHH wanted to be WWE Champion, but lets face it, he was in the biggest storyline, and Stone Cold is probably the only person who holds(or held) more backstage power than HHH.HHH/Stone Cold were in a power trip storyline, so basically they were dominating everyone, its not like HHH was being held back in anyway.He was always in the spotlight, and as Volare said, back then the roster was bigger.

[Pepsi Man]

What made you laugh exactly?

Anyhow,ofcourse HHH wanted to be WWW Champion, but lets face it, he was in the biggest storyline, and Stone Cold is probably the only person who holds(or held) more backstage power than HHH.HHHH/Stone Cold were in a power tirp storyline, so basically they were dominating everyone, its not like HHH was being held back in anyway.He was always in the spotlight, and as Volare said, back then the roster was bigger.
Would you like for me to spell the point out for you? Fuck it, I'll do it anyway. The point was...now bear with me, because this may be hard to grasp. THOSE MATCHES WITH VISCERA AND VAL VENIS HAVE HARDLY BEEN HIGH PROFILE MATCHES (YES, I USED THE WORD MATCHES, BUT THEY WERE MATCHES), NOR HAVE THEY TAKEN UP THE WHOLE SHOW!:eek: I know that may be hard for you to digest, but read it slowly and reread it if you have to, and I think you'll get it eventually. Unless you disagree and think that the matches were the focal point of Raw, you're not disagreeing with my point at all.

When the hell did backstage power come into play in this?:?:

[Londoner]

Well you're hardly going to see Stone Cold as the IC champ are you?That's sort of what I meant by backstage power, maybe it was the wrong term to use.

But I still don't get what you're arguing, i think you're saying HHH hasn't been in the main event because he has been wrestling guys like Val Venis and Viscera, well er, all those matches were there for were to build up his feud with Flair.He'll be in the main event again after this feud with Flair, but that wasn't my point in the first place anyway.It seems like you're trying to twist the arguement around and confuse me here, the point of this thread was that the IC title isn't being used properly, and you guys are trying to tell me that it is being used properly?

Yeah ok, having it not being defended at SS is really using it well.

[Pepsi Man]

Well you're hardly going to see Stone Cold as the IC champ are you?That's sort of what I meant by backstage power, maybe it was the wrong term to use.

But I still don't get what you're arguing, i think you're saying HHH hasn't been in the main event because he has been wrestling guys like Val Venis and Viscera, well er, all those matches were there for were to build up his feud with Flair.He'll be in the main event again after this feud with Flair, but that wasn't my point in the first place anyway.It seems like you're trying to twist the arguement around and confuse me here, the point of this thread was that the IC title isn't being used properly, and you guys are trying to tell me that it is being used properly?

Yeah ok, having it not being defended at SS is really using it well.
Well, having it not being defended at SummerSlam was just as well. I also see that I completely overestimated you when I first came into this thread. My humble apologies.

[Londoner]

Well the match was all set up, who knows what went on backstage in order for that match to be cut off.Point is though, there was a feud being built around it back then, now there isn't one and hasn't been since then.

[Volare]

any of ya think HHH used his "powers" to have flair get the belt and then have Trips go for it??

[Londoner]

Volare-Thats what i've been saying all through this thread!(well except the bit about having trips go for it)

[Volare]

i thought so but i ment do you think he shot around some of the talent (like carlito or benjamin) cause i thought Trips gave benjamin some credit one time or another for having a great match