Barbwire Massacre!!!!!!!

[Extreme Angle]

From TNAWrestling.com:

UPDATE ON TNA’S FIRST-EVER “BARBED WIRE MASSACRE"

TNAwrestling.com has learned that this Monday afternoon in Orlando, Florida, prior to the Tuesday “iMPACT!” tapings, the TNA production crew will be fitting the six-sided ring with razor wire in preparation for the upcoming “Barbed Wire Massacre” between Abyss and Sabu at “Turning Point”.

The TNA production crew will be charged with setting up the dangerous structure at the Pay-Per-View and is conducting a test-run on Monday. Each member of the ring crew will wear special gloves throughout to avoid any injury. TNA cameras will be on hand to capture the footage, which will air on ‘IMPACT!” prior to the Pay-Per-View.

TNAwrestling.com has also learned that both Sabu and Abyss will be allowed to use barbed wire weapons as well during the bloody and barbaric massacre.

The bout will make wrestling history, as it marks the first time a match where the entire ring is wrapped in barbed wire will air live on Pay-Per-View in the United States.
_________________________________________________________________

All in all it should be good...:naughty:

[Skippord]

Sadistic just came all over himself

[Sadistic]

This won't be too barbaric. I'ts TNA remember. I'm sure there's only so much they're allowed to do.
I can't picture Sabu getting 100 stitches after this one.
But props to TNA for trying this.

[Extreme Angle]

ye

[CharismaInjection]

meh...

I Don't get TNA.
Wouldn't watch it if I did.

[Kane Knight]

meh...

I get TNA.
Wouldn't watch it period.

[Xero]

This won't be too barbaric. I'ts TNA remember. I'm sure there's only so much they're allowed to do.
I can't picture Sabu getting 100 stitches after this one.
But props to TNA for trying this.
lol

[Savio]

They should wrap everything in barbed wire......EVERYTHING.

[Team Sheep]

TNA sucks. I seriously can't see the appeal.

[Stickman]

Does anybody really think after years and years of doing stuff like this, that Sabu will put on a classic match? Sure he'll bleed but it won't be too bad. The match will suck. Trust me on that.

[Kane Knight]

They should wrap everything in barbed wire......EVERYTHING.

"OH MY GOD! RHYNO AND SABU HAVE EACH BEEN WRAPPED IN 3 MILES OF BARBED WIRE! THIS IS THE GREATEST EVENT EVER!"

[loopydate]

I have a question.

Throughout the Abyss/Hardy/Sabu segment last night, Tenay kept talking about how unlike other promotions, when they promise a barbed-wire match, they deliver.

Who advertised a barbed-wire match and didn't?

[Team Sheep]

I have a question.

Throughout the Abyss/Hardy/Sabu segment last night, Tenay kept talking about how unlike other promotions, when they promise a barbed-wire match, they deliver.

Who advertised a barbed-wire match and didn't?

I think they're trying to say that barbed wire will be used as weapons in the match. I think they're implying towards the Barbed wire steel cage match between JBL and Big Show. The barbed wire was there, but it didn't really come into play. Thus, in their eyes, isn't a true barbed wire match.

[The MAC]

the barb wire is dulled. its not the real thing...

[Xero]

the barb wire is dulled. its not the real thing...
Sadistic: NUH UH! ITS GONNA BE REAL!!!!111 TNA WOULDNT LIE TO ME! ITS GONNA BE REAL BARBEDWIRE BECAUSE THEY SAID SO!!!11111!!!!!!

[The MAC]

well then they will need the ASS CREAM after the match

[loopydate]

I think they're trying to say that barbed wire will be used as weapons in the match. I think they're implying towards the Barbed wire steel cage match between JBL and Big Show. The barbed wire was there, but it didn't really come into play. Thus, in their eyes, isn't a true barbed wire match.

Thanks. I had totally forgotten about that match.

[Sadistic]

the barb wire is dulled. its not the real thing...
It is the real thing. Sabu wouldn't wrestle in fake barbed wire. WWE even used real wire.

[Nervous Ferret]

massacara

[CharismaInjection]

TNA sucks. I seriously can't see the appeal.

Me too Sheep, on a happy note, TNA's ratings have been getting lower each week. :D

[Extreme Angle]

Just because you have never watched it :)
but then again i have onl watched it once or twice...

[Kane Knight]

It is the real thing. Sabu wouldn't wrestle in fake barbed wire. WWE even used real wire.

:lol: Who called it?

[Nervous Ferret]

Kane Knight did!

[CharismaInjection]

I have watched it, more than enough times, it's shit.

No offence to fans of it, I'm sure you have your reasons for liking it.

[Xero]

It is the real thing. Sabu wouldn't wrestle in fake barbed wire. WWE even used real wire.
LOL, if you think that the WWE used real barbed wire you're retarded.

The Barbed Wire in the Cage Match was fake and every time Mick Foley used the barbed wire 2x4 it was fake.

[Cool King]

meh...

I Don't get TNA.
Wouldn't watch it if I did.

TNA sucks. I seriously can't see the appeal.

[Nowhere Man]

I think they're trying to say that barbed wire will be used as weapons in the match. I think they're implying towards the Barbed wire steel cage match between JBL and Big Show. The barbed wire was there, but it didn't really come into play. Thus, in their eyes, isn't a true barbed wire match.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't WCW do the same thing back in 1999? I vaguely remember there being a Hogan/Flair cage match with barbed wire that never came into play.

[Team Sheep]

I wouldn't know, that was before my time and I never watched WCW. But if so, then there's another reason. :y:

[Xero]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't WCW do the same thing back in 1999? I vaguely remember there being a Hogan/Flair cage match with barbed wire that never came into play.
Yes.

[Sadistic]

LOL, if you think that the WWE used real barbed wire you're retarded.

The Barbed Wire in the Cage Match was fake and every time Mick Foley used the barbed wire 2x4 it was fake.
Nope. If you read Mick Foley's 1st book you would know that a real barbed wire 2 x 4 was used in the Royal Rumble 2000 and No Way Out 2000 matches.

[Nowhere Man]

Mick Foley's first book only covered his career until 1998.

[Extreme Angle]

How can you get fake barb wire, if its sharp it cuts... If it's pointy it hurts :?:

[Extreme Angle]

he's probs talking about foley is good...
i got have anice day but...

[Nowhere Man]

Fake barbed wire can be made by covering the tips of the barbs in rubber. WCW did it when they brought in Sandman.

[Sadistic]

Mick Foley's first book only covered his career until 1998.
The paperback version deals with up to mid/late 2000.

[Nowhere Man]

Ah. I've only got the hardback version.

[Xero]

Fake barbed wire can be made by covering the tips of the barbs in rubber. WCW did it when they brought in Sandman.
Or just making it completely out of rubber.

[Extreme Angle]

same i got hardback

[Extreme Angle]

lol as they say you learn a new thing everyday.

[Kane Knight]

How can you get fake barb wire, if its sharp it cuts... If it's pointy it hurts :?:

Theyactually sell "Prop" barbed wire, which is used in movies. I don't know anything about this "rubber tip" stuff, but they actually have barbed wire where the barbes are not sharp. That doesn't mean you'll never get hurt, but it herts a hell of a lot less.

[Xero]

Nope. If you read Mick Foley's 1st book you would know that a real barbed wire 2 x 4 was used in the Royal Rumble 2000 and No Way Out 2000 matches.
What page was that on in Foley's book?

[Corkscrewed]

Or just making it completely out of rubber.
BAW GAWD THAT TIRE JUST SLICED HIM IN HALF!!!!! STONE COLD!! STONE COLD!! STONE COLD!!

[Disturbed316]

lol ooooooooooooooooooh dangerous stuff.

I really don't give two shits.

[Shawn Mega]

Interesting move by TNA. Don't really care for this feud.

They have 5 solid matches for this ppv. Joe vs.Styles will kick ass again.

[Extreme Angle]

Somebody gets irish whipped into the barbwire and the wire snaps...
how would wwe look then. :lol:

[Xero]

Somebody gets irish whipped into the barbwire and the wire snaps...
how would wwe look then. :lol:
The same.

[Extreme Angle]

Hell yeah they would!
WWE can pull round about anything off these days....

[The MAC]

dulling is a method used by magicians to make razor blades safe.

as far as TNA Go - I think they should go ECW style - fuck some shit up.

it seems they are accepting their place as second to WWE.

To the real owner of TNA : Flip the script and take a fucking chance instead of playing with your prick all the time

Barb-wire- steel cages - street fights - whores running around. why the fuck not?

[Sadistic]

Why do people think that fake barbed wire will be used? The ring will be surrounded with it, it will be everywhere, everyone will be able to tell if it is fake. Sabu will have cuts all over his body and if he doesn't then you will know it is fake.

[Shawn Mega]

Why do people think that fake barbed wire will be used? The ring will be surrounded with it, it will be everywhere, everyone will be able to tell if it is fake. Sabu will have cuts all over his body and if he doesn't then you will know it is fake.

Because this is America pro wrestling. Sabu is not able to take that kind of punishment anymore. It's not real and DON'T HAVE TO BE REAL.

[Xero]

Why do people think that fake barbed wire will be used? The ring will be surrounded with it, it will be everywhere, everyone will be able to tell if it is fake. Sabu will have cuts all over his body and if he doesn't then you will know it is fake.
Just because some of it's real doesn't mean it'll all be real. They could do one section of the wire as real to get them cut up and use fake for the rest. Pro wrestling is all about acting and presentation, buddy. Not killing/mutilating each other.

Why do YOU think it'll be REAL?

[Sadistic]

So according to you (Shawn Mega) Real barbed wire has never been used and isn't used in American pro wrestling?

[Sadistic]

Why do YOU think it'll be REAL?
Because Sabu is a hardcore legend and why would he shit on his on legacy by using fake barbed wire?
You know how this guy got into the American Wrestling scene? From BARBED WIRE matches in Japan. Barbed wire matches made this guy's career.

[Xero]

Because Sabu is a hardcore legend and why would he shit on his on legacy by using fake barbed wire?
You know how this guy got into the American Wrestling scene? From BARBED WIRE matches in Japan. Barbed wire matches made this guy's career.
And that's why he's a no talent spot monkey. He relies on the wire and taking dumbass risks. Like CZW. Only he made money doing it.

[Extreme Angle]

isit true that Sabu Got implaed by a pole or something?
i think Joey Styles said it at ECW: One Night Stand...

[Sadistic]

If you think he has no talent then fuck off out of the thread. Jesus you came her to be negative? Typical bullshit.

[Xero]

If you think he has no talent then fuck off out of the thread. Jesus you came her to be negative? Typical bullshit.
You came here to bash WWE?

Yes. I have never seen a Sabu match without unnecessary spots. Can you show me one where he wrestles without botching, going outside of the ring, or using any type of weapon including chairs and tables?

[Nervous Ferret]

LOL "you came here to be negative"

Mr. Pot: Hey you're Mr. Kettle!
Mr Kettle: Why yes, yes I am.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Cactus and HHH DID use real Barbed Wire at No Way Out 2000 by request, and there were two barbed wire bats at the Rumble, the real one, which only Mick took, and a fake one which was used on Triple H. It's in Foley is Good.

[Sadistic]

Can you show me one where he wrestles without botching, going outside of the ring, or using any type of weapon including chairs and tables?

Nope. Only an idiot watches a Sabu match expecting a wrestling match.
So let me get this straight:
You're in the mood to watch fine wrestling match so you pop in a sabu tape so you can watch it and complain about the lack of wrestling.
I don't get it.
If you want wrestling watch wrestling, don't watch Sabu's hardcore, high flying, exciting, spotfest style of matches.
If every match was the way you wanted it to be then wrestling would be very boring.
Everything needs a bit of variety. Sabu's matches are different from the usual wrestling match you are used to. Of you don't like it, don't watch it and don't come on the internet complaining like a little shit.

[Xero]

Nope. Only an idiot watches a Sabu match expecting a wrestling match.
So let me get this straight:
You're in the mood to watch fine wrestling match so you pop in a sabu tape so you can watch it and complain about the lack of wrestling.
I don't get it.
If you want wrestling watch wrestling, don't watch Sabu's hardcore, high flying, exciting, spotfest style of matches.

I've never put in a "Sabu Tape". I have a few ECW DVDs with him on it and a few shitty video matches on my PC.
If every match was the way you wanted it to be then wrestling would be very boring..
Exactly, buddy. If every match was a Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit match, it would be boring. And yes, I'm being serious.

However, this argument can go right back to YOU. Not every match should be a spotfest (high flying) or death/hardcore match, either.

[The MAC]

SADISTIC is a MARK.

of course the Barb wire will be Fake . You think TNA can risk it? wake the fuck up and smell the maplenut crunch.

[Xero]

SADISTIC is a MARK.
Hi Captain Obvious! :wave:

[Boondock Saint]

I thought there was some law or something that prevented WWE from using real barbed wire last year in the cage? Maybe it was just the state the event was in, but I could swear there were outside reasons for not bringing the wire into play.

[Sting Fan]

The funny part is that the more I watch TNA the more I see it becoming ECW.

Yeah yeah I know ECW was great and TNA sucks, whatever.

[Destor]

They are a third rate ECW, and a second rate WCW. Neither of those is meant to be a complement.^^^

[Shawn Mega]

They are a third rate ECW, and a second rate WCW. Neither of those is meant to be a complement.^^^

Still better than the crap you see on Monday and Friday nights.

[Destor]

Still better than the crap you see on Monday and Friday nights.
Hardly. WWE might not be on fire, but mindless spotfest are'nt going to beat out anything.

[Xero]

Hardly. WWE might not be on fire, but mindless spotfest are'nt going to beat out anything.

[Kane Knight]

Still better than the crap you see on Monday and Friday nights.

Which is why TNA ratings are going up...

[Sting Fan]

Ouch.

Let it be said I am a fan of TNA, just not a blind and all admiring fan like many. But then again I was an avid WCW fan so there is no accounting for taste.

[Fox]

Hold up a minute.

How can you people sit there and call everything TNA does shitty because some of their matches feature a lot of spots?

Sure, if you watch an AJ Styles match or a Christopher Daniels match or a Sabu match you're going to see spot after spot after spot. But that's their style, and some people, myself included, have taken it as a breath of fresh air from the WWE's boring, pedantic style of scripted matches.

How is watching Sabu hit his usual spots every match any different from a fucking Undertaker match? Taker dominates to start - opponent cheats to get the heads up - opponent has the advantage - Taker comes back with a flying clothesline - Taker does his tight rope walk thing - Taker hits the Chokeslam or Tombstone and wins.

Or a WWE tag team match: Evenly matched to start - faces get some offense in - heels divide the ring and work over one of the faces - face gets the hot tag - hot tag leads to a face victory, or the heels win by cheating. Every time like fucking clockwork.


My point being: if you're going to bash on TNA, use specific examples of why they suck. "Every match is a spotfest" just isn't comprehensive enough, considering only part of their roster are X-Division wrestlers, and a lot of those spot-move wrestlers are actually really good, AND their competition and the #1 wrestling promotion in the US today has a lot of spotfests too - the only difference is TNA's spotfest are actually exciting.

[Kane Knight]

You're comparing spots to Undertaker, who nobody gives a shit about?

[Dorkchop]

I went to an indy show this summer that Sabu was headlining with Abyss. It was promoted as "Chaos in the Capital" (I live in Ottawa, Canada's capital). The match was a falls count anywhere no dq. Anyway the match was five minutes long, no attempts at a pinfall outside the ring, one thrown chair shot (to Abyss), and one crappy attempt at breaking a table. It was crappy and every single person there was disappointed. Thus leading me to this:

I just don't see it being real barbed wire. Sabu can't do that stuff anymore.

And there is such thing as fake barbed wire. How about you look things up on the internet before you shit on everyone.

[Destor]

Same stuff that makes hardcore wrestling garbage makes spotfest wrestling garbage. THE LACK OF PSYCHOLOGY. The lack of rhyme or reason behind their actions is why its shite. They can both be done right. Its just so rare from TNA or CZW. Yet I still watch their shows and buy their DVDs..... WHY?

[Kane Knight]

Same stuff that makes hardcore wrestling garbage makes spotfest wrestling garbage. THE LACK OF PSYCHOLOGY. The lack of rhyme or reason behind their actions is why its shite. They can both be done right. Its just so rare from TNA or CZW. Yet I still watch their shows and buy their DVDs..... WHY?

I do have to agree. It's not that good wrestling can't have spots, it's that you can't use spots instead of good wrestling. TNA tends to be spotfests, which are not conducive to a good match. CZC tends to rely on spots and "hardcore" shit to get it done.

Also, in both instances, less is more. Spots highlight an important moment or turning point. Abuse of spots tend to ruin said spots and make the spots less interesting as a whole.

[Destor]

I do have to agree. It's not that good wrestling can't have spots, it's that you can't use spots instead of good wrestling. TNA tends to be spotfests, which are not conducive to a good match. CZC tends to rely on spots and "hardcore" shit to get it done.

Also, in both instances, less is more. Spots highlight an important moment or turning point. Abuse of spots tend to ruin said spots and make the spots less interesting as a whole.
Too true. Spots are designed to be the memorable points of a match (hardcore and wrestling spots a like.) When you do them to much people don't remember much of anything and are left going, "yeah AJ won." To paraphrase a guy form another board, I think his name was CC or somethin, "a little bit of salt is fine, too much will ruin the meal."

[Skippord]

However Christopher Daniels > all

[Destor]

My point is this: if your good enough you don't need spotfest, high-flying, or hardcore to carry you. And when a match is based on these gimmicks its garbage. There needs to be more substance, take Jake Roberts. Not very technically sound, could only pull double axe handle off the top, etc. Yet what he did would still get over any where. And its only because its not what you do, but how you do it. Threw his flawless psychology he made every move meaningful, and logical and the people believed in what he was doing. And when he used a gimmick (like a weapon) or one was used on him it meant something.

I'm ranting now ignore this post.

But not this: TNA needs to remember its wrestling, and not gymnastics or a race; the WWE needs to remember its wrestling, and not a soap opera (just to be fair.)

[Sting Fan]

Both WWE and TNa have there downfalls. WWE is trying to cater to a wider audience with the soap action stuff stuff while keeping younger males with tits and ass. I think its fair to say they are alienating both groups at least a decent proportion of the time.

TNA seems like it is trying to attract that newer more ADD type fan who wants all action now, this aint gonna work either and as ratings are showing its not even holding AAD attention. Mainly because people are going to need bigger and bigger spots to keep that adrenaline going. The same old spots lower the payoff and as such become old hat.

[DaVe]

Sure, if you watch an AJ Styles match or a Christopher Daniels match or a Sabu match you're going to see spot after spot after spot. But that's their style, and some people, myself included, have taken it as a breath of fresh air from the WWE's boring, pedantic style of scripted matches.

Who are your top wrestlers in TNA (Styles and Daniels?)? Compare their matches to a HBK or Angle match. They don't overly use any sort of spot - it is good wrestling.

How is watching Sabu hit his usual spots every match any different from a fucking Undertaker match? Taker dominates to start - opponent cheats to get the heads up - opponent has the advantage - Taker comes back with a flying clothesline - Taker does his tight rope walk thing - Taker hits the Chokeslam or Tombstone and wins.

Yeah, usually Undertaker dominates at the start. Although it may seem like it, versus any decent opponents the rest is never in that order, and sometimes it all doesn't happen. To be honest, Sabu's usual spots don't bore me, it is just the style of wrestling TNA is as a whole.

Or a WWE tag team match: Evenly matched to start - faces get some offense in - heels divide the ring and work over one of the faces - face gets the hot tag - hot tag leads to a face victory, or the heels win by cheating. Every time like fucking clockwork.

WWE is beginning to pick up a little in its tag division so this isn't always the case, but yeah, that is usually the case.

#1 wrestling promotion in the US today has a lot of spotfests too

For example?

You're comparing spots to Undertaker, who nobody gives a shit about?

:roll:

Anyway, basically... To conclude:

It's not that good wrestling can't have spots, it's that you can't use spots instead of good wrestling. TNA tends to be spotfests, which are not conducive to a good match. CZC tends to rely on spots and "hardcore" shit to get it done.

:y:

[Kane Knight]

Awwww...Poor Dave...You gonna pretend that Undertaker is a relavent and contemporay superstar? :lol:

[Fox]

Who are your top wrestlers in TNA (Styles and Daniels?)? Compare their matches to a HBK or Angle match. They don't overly use any sort of spot - it is good wrestling.

Good wrestling is a subjective term; it means different things to different people. You compare the styles of Styles(no pun intended)/Daniels to HBK/Angle, and that's pretty easy to do since both pairs of men wrestled 30 minute iron matches against each other in the same month, with Styles/Daniels at Bound for Glory and HBK/Angle at the RAW Homecoming.

In my opinion, the Styles/Daniels match was by far the better encounter. It was quick, the wrestling was sound, and the moves performed perfectly. The psychology was good too: the history of these two was hyped by Tenay, about how Daniels and Styles have always shadowed each other, which spilled into the 30 minute frantic battle to score a single pinfall. Both men were tired and bruised (Styles especially) after the encounter and with less than 10 seconds to go, Styles hit the Styles Clash to win.

HBK/Angle was good, there's not doubt about that: but it was only good by WWE wrestling standards. The big-time indies like TNA and ROH feature fast paced, unscripted and highly entertaining matches, and Daniels/Styles was the peak of that style. The WWE wrestles slow paced, methodical and planned out matches: watch them from 1999-2001 and now and you will see a difference. The fact that cruiserweights have been told to tone it down is a perfect example of this.

HBK/Angle was both more slowly paced and faster than Styles/Daniels: in the same 30 minutes it took AJ to score one pin, HBK and Angle scored four (five if you count HBK's running out of time). In this way, it was faster than Styles/Daniels. In every other way it was slower: more rest holds and submissions, and more brawling. Of course, all of this was done as well as it can be, as Angle and HBK are both masters of the mat. Still, it did not have the same explosive quality of the Styles/Daniels match.


#1 wrestling promotion in the US today has a lot of spotfests too

For example?

I was referring to the way that they style their matches, as their "spots" are slower and less exciting, yet they are usually the same every match.

Take any wrestler: Chris Jericho for example. He hits his few "spots" every match: the dropkick off the apron, the enziguri, the attempted Walls of Jericho, the winning move (Walls or Lionsault). The rest is usually just filler. The same goes for RVD: he's been limited to the split-legged moonsault, rolling thunder, and the spinning kick from the apron. The rest is usually filler. If you look closely, this can be applied to a lot of the wrestlers. Granted, they do have great matches every now and then, but they're less often than more.

It's not that good wrestling can't have spots, it's that you can't use spots instead of good wrestling. TNA tends to be spotfests, which are not conducive to a good match. CZC tends to rely on spots and "hardcore" shit to get it done.

The TNA wrestlers use all styles of wrestling: technical, brawling, high flying, lucha libre, martial arts, and they encompass them into one style. They do not leave out a storyline. Take this quote from an interview by Jason Levett of SLAM Wrestling with AJ Styles:

"For many fans, it is talent like Styles, Daniels, Petey Williams, Chris Sabin and others that are the reason they order the pay per views. It is flattering for Styles to hear that.

"It makes us feel important, I hope that TNA realizes that as well. We try to do something that you don't see anywhere else, its not just high spots its psychology and people forget that. It separates us from other wrestlers is we know how to put on a match with a bit of everything."

And people love to see it. I've had friends who hate wrestling watch an AJ Styles match and want to see more of it. He and the rest of the X-Division wrestlers are innovative, fast paced, all encompassing athletes with great skill. They are exactly the types of wrestlers that the WWE isn't allowing to shine on their own shows, because they tell the cruiserweights to slow down.

[Sadistic]

Fox you, unlike most of the board, are 100% right.

[redoneja]

WTF??? Have people forgot how to use the quote button???

And WWE is still better than TNA, which is still better than CZW. Sorry but its true.

[Xero]

Do you TNA marks know what a spotfest is?

A spotfest isn't just someone's normal arsenal. It's pulling off spots for the sake of pulling off spots. Hitting five top rope moves just to say that you've hit five top rope moves in one match. Getting a chair and hitting someone over the head with it for the sake of hitting someone over the head. Throwing someone into barbed wire and then hitting them with a light bulb for the sake of violence. They (usually) don't tell a story, they're just nonstop flashy moves, sometimes a shit load of violence, and a finish.

The X Division, except for a few, are all high flying risk takers who risk it all for what, to say that they can pull off a flipping piledriver or risk snapping someone's neck off with a Styles Clash?

[redoneja]

Do you TNA marks know what a spotfest is?

A spotfest isn't just someone's normal arsenal. It's pulling off spots for the sake of pulling off spots. Hitting five top rope moves just to say that you've hit five top rope moves in one match. Getting a chair and hitting someone over the head with it for the sake of hitting someone over the head. They (usually) don't tell a story, they're just nonstop flashy moves, sometimes a shit load of violence, and a finish.

The X Division, except for a few, are all high flying risk takers who risk it all for what, to say that they can pull off a flipping piledriver or risk snapping someone's neck off with a Styles Clash?

See, this is how you quote someone.

Anyway Xero hits it right on the head. And I am going to take it to an extreme(no pun intended). Hulk Hogan > TNA X Division(save a few). Why?? Cause he could tell a story and relate to the fans what was happening in the ring. Its called "RING PSYCHOLOGY". It isn't about being able to do 1000 different moves from 1000 different positions, its about telling a story to the fans.

[Sadistic]

I have a pretty far out idea:

If you don't like spotfests, don't watch them.

[redoneja]

I have a pretty far out idea:

If you don't like spotfests, don't watch them.

I have a good idea too:

If you don't like the type of matches WWE put on, don't watch them.

[Loose Cannon]

I have a pretty far out idea:

If you don't like spotfests, don't watch them.

yea, exactly what people HAVE been doing with TNA. Not watching

[Sadistic]

WWE can put on a good match.

[redoneja]

So can TNA. Just not very often.

[Destor]

WWE can put on a good match.

TNA could, if they would stop doing garbage spotfest.

[Xero]

I have a pretty far out idea:

If you don't like spotfests, don't watch them.
I have a pretty far out idea for you, too.

If you hate the way WWE is going, DON'T WATCH IT, you fucking hypocrite.

You talk about how wrestling should have a variety when all you do is praise spot fests, hardcore matches, and drop a few technical names. Wrestling should have a variety only if YOU like it, right?

I don't care if spotfests are out there. But YOU'RE the one always arguing that the WWE is shit because of Hassan, Cena, and JBL, among others. Which is why WE go back and try to get it through your little brain that you're preaching something that you obviously don't believe in.

[McLegend]

Yeah about everyone ignores Sadastic because this isn't going anywhere nor will it ever.

[Sting Fan]

Jesus no one can accept that both feds cater to different ideals and fans.

How hard is it just to accept that because you dont like it doesnt mean its shit. Oh I know because no one here is ever wrong, my bad I will go back to my cave.

[Loose Cannon]

shut the fuck up and clean up my shit in the corner

[redoneja]

lol

[DaVe]

Awwww...Poor Dave...You gonna pretend that Undertaker is a relavent and contemporay superstar?

Nah, I'm just being pedantic:

You're comparing spots to Undertaker, who nobody gives a shit about?

Quite obviously PEOPLE DO care about the Undertaker. Just not most of the smarks.

WTF??? Have people forgot how to use the quote button???

Haha, no.:p It is just that copying and pasting parts and using italics is easier.

I was referring to the way that they style their matches, as their "spots" are slower and less exciting, yet they are usually the same every match.

So basically, just read what Xero Limit said.

[Kane Knight]

I have a pretty far out idea:

If you don't like spotfests, don't watch them.

Hey, maybe that's why nobody watches TNA anymore, despite your "They will watch it again and again and again" claims. :)

[Kane Knight]

Quite obviously PEOPLE DO care about the Undertaker. Just not most of the smarks.

Or most of the wrestling fanbase, since he's lost hsi drawing power. But Hell, let'signore that, it makes yor point look more like a point instead of some silly contrary stance.

[Kane Knight]

Jesus no one can accept that both feds cater to different ideals and fans.

How hard is it just to accept that because you dont like it doesnt mean its shit. Oh I know because no one here is ever wrong, my bad I will go back to my cave.

TNA's trying to go mainstream. They are trying to appeal to a larger fanbase. They are failing.

Yeah, that doesn't make it shit. :roll:

[redoneja]

Who are your top wrestlers in TNA (Styles and Daniels?)? Compare their matches to a HBK or Angle match. They don't overly use any sort of spot - it is good wrestling.

Good wrestling is a subjective term; it means different things to different people. You compare the styles of Styles(no pun intended)/Daniels to HBK/Angle, and that's pretty easy to do since both pairs of men wrestled 30 minute iron matches against each other in the same month, with Styles/Daniels at Bound for Glory and HBK/Angle at the RAW Homecoming.

In my opinion, the Styles/Daniels match was by far the better encounter. It was quick, the wrestling was sound, and the moves performed perfectly. The psychology was good too: the history of these two was hyped by Tenay, about how Daniels and Styles have always shadowed each other, which spilled into the 30 minute frantic battle to score a single pinfall. Both men were tired and bruised (Styles especially) after the encounter and with less than 10 seconds to go, Styles hit the Styles Clash to win.

HBK/Angle was good, there's not doubt about that: but it was only good by WWE wrestling standards. The big-time indies like TNA and ROH feature fast paced, unscripted and highly entertaining matches, and Daniels/Styles was the peak of that style. The WWE wrestles slow paced, methodical and planned out matches: watch them from 1999-2001 and now and you will see a difference. The fact that cruiserweights have been told to tone it down is a perfect example of this.



So is the slower pace of Japanese strong style wrestling bad? :?:

[Kane Knight]

Also, even Sadistic admits garbage wrestling isn't wrestling. I just figured I'd point out that the definition of good wrestling isn't subjective when it ISN'T WRESTLING.

[Xero]

Jesus no one can accept that both feds cater to different ideals and fans.

How hard is it just to accept that because you dont like it doesnt mean its shit. Oh I know because no one here is ever wrong, my bad I will go back to my cave.
No shit. The problem is, they've been catering for the Underground fanbase for so long, and seeing that isn't working (See: Ratings), they're starting to go more mainstream. Yeah, you fucking "WE'RE UNDERGROUND" marks, they're going mainstream and they'll be going more traditional if they want to succeed. And that's whether you fucking marks want it or not.

It seems that their idea of main stream, though, is barbed wire. They SHOULD keep what they've been doing, no doubt, but they should ALSO start catering to the casual fan who enjoy squash matches with big guys and storylines.

Yes, I know it's hard to believe, but a lot of marks like the big guys because they tend dominate.

Edit: Don't think I'm saying they don't like action, though. Big guys sell, it's a fact.