Hitman needs to get over it already

[The Naitch]

There's going to be a lot of disappointed fans now that Bret Hart has announced he will NOT make an appearance at WM22, even just to come out with the other Hall of Famers and acknowledge the fans.

For me, that was maybe my main reason for watching this year's WM, not as any kind of huge Bret Hart fan, but simply because there is nothing particularly inviting about the card so far, bar maybe the SmackDown main event and Foley/Edge. With no Bret Hart, there is no intrigue in watching the show. So how many people bought tickets to go, just because they figured they may see 'The Hitman'? And how many others figured that Bret Hart was the deciding factor in whether or not to order the show???

Seriously, how hard is it to show up at WrestleMania and address your fans?

Now I'm not a fan of the guy, but I'm sure a few people would love to see him atleast show up in some shape or form at WrestleMania. But no, the guy doesn't want to

Fuck him

(Unless the whole thing is to throw everyone off)

[Kane Knight]

Jesus. Only on the internet is washing your hands of something "not gettng over it."

[NeanderCarl]

I happen to agree with Naitch (and not just because he's quoting me!!!). If he "washed his hands of it", why is he showing up at the Hall of Fame in the first place?

I reckon he's playing hardball, and his ego wants him to be 'courted' into making a Mania appearance. And I'm torn 50/50 as to whether he will do it or not, despite what he's been saying.

[Kane Knight]

Because the Hall of Fame and WM are two different entities?

Sorry if I'm too "out there" for you.

[Innovator]

He's said the only reason he's doing the Hall of Fame was to say goodbye the right way to his fans.

[Funky Fly]

What the fuck are you talking about, Naitch?

He is at the HOF to say good-bye. Isn't that enough? Why does he need to be at wrestlemania? He is too injured to be part of any storylines. 56898743569873569 concussions and a stroke will do that to you.

FUCK YOU ALL. SDAKHGDSFGAKYBSDHF

[John la Rock]

Bret should be at Wrestlemania in some capacity since he's being inducted into the HOF

[Funky Fly]

Bret should be at Wrestlemania in some capacity since he's being inducted into the HOF
WHY?

He can't do anything, and I doubt he really wants to be around HBK more than he needs to.

[NeanderCarl]

WHY?

He can't do anything, and I doubt he really wants to be around HBK more than he needs to.

Because:

1. It is now traditional for the Hall of Fame inductees to show up at WrestleMania and be introduced

and

2. Because of point 1, a lot of the more mark-ish/casual fans (therefore, probably at least 50% of the audience) are expecting to see Bret at WrestleMania, dare I say some even bought tickets because of it, and if Bret breaks the tradition then he will have a lot of fans disappointed in him.

Mind you, they should have expected it. It's not the first time Bret has broken a time-honoured tradition is it?




(Uh-oh, I'm gonna get some heat for that!)

[Corkscrewed]

He WILL be at the HoF, right? If not, I might bat an eye. If he is, then fine.

[NeanderCarl]

He WILL be at the HoF, right? If not, I might bat an eye. If he is, then fine.

As things currently stand, Bret WILL be at the ceremony. And then he will fly out of Chicago the next morning, missing WM22 altogether.

[RGWhat316]

I am not a Bret fan, and I am sick of his childish behavior. It has been tradition the last couple of years for the HOF participants to show up at WM. If Bret didn't want to do that, then why did he even bother accepting the HOF invitation anyways. And I wouldn't be surprised if some people did buy tickets to WM to see Bret live and in person.

Plus, I also read in another interview that Bret said if Shawn shows up at the HOF ceremony, he would get in a cab and head to the airport right away. Now that is just ridiculous.

[Funky Fly]

I am not a Bret fan, and I am sick of his childish behavior. It has been tradition the last couple of years for the HOF participants to show up at WM. If Bret didn't want to do that, then why did he even bother accepting the HOF invitation anyways. And I wouldn't be surprised if some people did buy tickets to WM to see Bret live and in person.

Plus, I also read in another interview that Bret said if Shawn shows up at the HOF ceremony, he would get in a cab and head to the airport right away. Now that is just ridiculous.
I dunno, if a guy I hated for years who accused me of cheating on my wife and then he was involved in the moment that pretty much ended my career, I'd not want to be around him either.

[Rammsteinmad]

He accused him of cheating on his wife? I knew nothing of this. Someone give me details.

[Funky Fly]

He accused him of cheating on his wife? I knew nothing of this. Someone give me details.
Shawn made some comment like "Sunny days" or something, with the implication being that Bret was boning Sunny (Tammy Sytch). Needless to say, the Hitman was't pleased.

I'm sure you can find a more detailed account on practically any wrestling website.

[The MAC]

if da hitman was hitting sunny..good for him! HBK was being the jealous lil bitch we all knew he is/was!

Bret got it while its hot - now shawn can have it cuz its not

and lets be honest, sunny WAS hot!


I think Bret still wants Vicne and Shawn to apologise on TV for Montreal and that would open the door for Bret to consider working in some capacity for the WWE.

People say he's totally fucked up ..maybe..maybe not..I mean he was jumping on stage as the fucking genie from alladin and HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN WORKING WITH TNA!?!

Im the biggest Hart fan here - and I think Bret wants what he always wanted RESPECT!

How would it look for Bret to just meekly say " ahh okay vince" Bret felt humiliated after Montreal and he wants to bring Vince down to earth a little bit.

I think Bret would draw big even if he isnt wrestling! Vince knows this- the mention of Brets name still garners more interst than the storylines vince got going- thats why Montreal is brought up over and over and over..

[The Mackem]

So if you guys want to see him at Wrestlemania, what exactly would you want him to do, stand about doing nothing?

[Funky Fly]

if da hitman was hitting sunny..good for him! HBK was being the jealous lil bitch we all knew he is/was!

Bret got it while its hot - now shawn can have it cuz its not

and lets be honest, sunny WAS hot!


I think Bret still wants Vicne and Shawn to apologise on TV for Montreal and that would open the door for Bret to consider working in some capacity for the WWE.

People say he's totally fucked up ..maybe..maybe not..I mean he was jumping on stage as the fucking genie from alladin and HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN WORKING WITH TNA!?!

Im the biggest Hart fan here - and I think Bret wants what he always wanted RESPECT!

How would it look for Bret to just meekly say " ahh okay vince" Bret felt humiliated after Montreal and he wants to bring Vince down to earth a little bit.

I think Bret would draw big even if he isnt wrestling! Vince knows this- the mention of Brets name still garners more interst than the storylines vince got going- thats why Montreal is brought up over and over and over..
You are not helping.:|

[The MAC]

If i had my way - i would have this happen

Bret get his award at HOF - as he leaes the stage HBK shows up and has words with hart...

the next night bret rings the bell at mania when vince puts shawn in the sharpshooter-

Vince goes to high-five bret , bret punches him and puts a sharpshooter on him - then takes the mic and says " the WWE can go fuck themselves...TNA rules"

[McLegend]

We need to stop making threads about it all ready.

Also I find it pretty funny that since Montreal Bret has said way more things about Shawn then Shawn has said about Bret, but yet Shawn is still the dick.

If Bret doesn't want to go to WM and do anything with the WWE then thats great. Bret can do what he want and I will still be a Bret fan.

But yeah gotta stop making threads about Bret Hart, and how bitter he is or he isn't.

[Xero]

There could be an entire sub-forum dedicated to Bret Hart.

[Kane Knight]

Because:

1. It is now traditional for the Hall of Fame inductees to show up at WrestleMania and be introduced

and

2. Because of point 1, a lot of the more mark-ish/casual fans (therefore, probably at least 50% of the audience) are expecting to see Bret at WrestleMania, dare I say some even bought tickets because of it, and if Bret breaks the tradition then he will have a lot of fans disappointed in him.

Mind you, they should have expected it. It's not the first time Bret has broken a time-honoured tradition is it?




(Uh-oh, I'm gonna get some heat for that!)

Bah gawd! He makes a retarded comment and expects heat! The boy's a genius!

:lol:

Was Bret Hart advertised for Mania?

Was there any confirmation he'd appear?

If you're retarded enough to buy tickets and then blame HITMAN for letting you down, you deserve to be put down like a rabid dog. And trying to justify your comments about Bret by saying stupid people will be let down is just as bad.

Oh wait, I know, it's tradition. Because WWE never breaks tradition themselves.

[Xero]

Nope, they always MAKE IT OR BREAK IT with those few bad apples.

[The Fitz]

Because:

1. It is now traditional for the Hall of Fame inductees to show up at WrestleMania and be introduced

and

2. Because of point 1, a lot of the more mark-ish/casual fans (therefore, probably at least 50% of the audience) are expecting to see Bret at WrestleMania, dare I say some even bought tickets because of it, and if Bret breaks the tradition then he will have a lot of fans disappointed in him.

Mind you, they should have expected it. It's not the first time Bret has broken a time-honoured tradition is it?

(Uh-oh, I'm gonna get some heat for that!)

Although it will more than likely become a tradition, I would hardly call two years a tradition.

[Flair Wooo]

It makes me laugh at the morons who don't like bret are the ones moaning because he wont be at wrestlemania!!!

I'm a massive Bret hart fan and i wish he would show up at wrestlemania but i understand fully why he wont!!! Just some idiots can't seem to get it!

He got screwed over by this company after everything he had done for them and they slap him in the face!! If You had done everything for you're work and they slapped you in the face how would you feel???

[Kane Knight]

LOL. Bitchtits.

[Kane Knight]

Although it will more than likely become a tradition, I would hardly call two years a tradition.

Time-Honoured, no less. I mean, come on, it's happened two years in a Row. That's as Time-Hounoured as they get, no?

[Pepsi Man]

Anyone that bought a ticket to WrestleMania 22 to see Bret Hart needs to be shot in the head, especially considering that Bret was nowhere near confirmed for even the Hall of Fame back when tickets went on sale.

[Pepsi Man]

Time-Honoured, no less. I mean, come on, it's happened two years in a Row. That's as Time-Hounoured as they get, no?
Am I the only one finding this whole "time-honored tradition" wording hilarious?

[wwe2222]

I dont care if he is not at the actual Mania event...

my only problem is his comment about 'if i see shawn im going home'...

get over it, say goodbye to your fans, call it a career, and just be done with it.

[Flair Wooo]

I dont care if he is not at the actual Mania event...

my only problem is his comment about 'if i see shawn im going home'...

get over it, say goodbye to your fans, call it a career, and just be done with it.

Get over it!!!!! Well if shawn wasn't making fucking comments in his book he might get over it! If this shit wasn't brought up ever god dam time he gets interviewed he might be able to get over it!!!

Fuck you!..He has every right to demand shawn not to be there! My only wish is for him to punch shawn the fuck out!

[TerranRich]

So if you guys want to see him at Wrestlemania, what exactly would you want him to do, stand about doing nothing?
Uh, yeah? Just like the past 2 WrestleManias, where the HOFers were introduced, they stepped forward, waved hello to the crowd, and stepped back. Gee, that must really be hard for Bret Hart to do.

Therefore, the only conclusion that I can draw from him refusing to be there, is that he just doesn't want to do a simple thing like be with the other HOFers and be introduced. He can go home afterwards. Christ.

[Flair Wooo]

Uh, yeah? Just like the past 2 WrestleManias, where the HOFers were introduced, they stepped forward, waved hello to the crowd, and stepped back. Gee, that must really be hard for Bret Hart to do.

Therefore, the only conclusion that I can draw from him refusing to be there, is that he just doesn't want to do a simple thing like be with the other HOFers and be introduced. He can go home afterwards. Christ.


Why the fuck does it matter sooo much to you that bret isn't doing that????????? Fuck me, bret hart fans are the ones that should be moaning!

He's not going to do it.....GET OVER IT!!

He will still go down as one of the greatest wrestlers to step foot in a wwe ring.. wether you bitch about it or not!

[TerranRich]

Heh, I'm only pointing out that it's a whiny and bitchy thing for Bret to do. I'm simply backing up others' statements. I'm not crying over it, just pointing out that it doesn't take much to show up for like 5 minutes at WrestleMania.

[Kane Knight]

Am I the only one finding this whole "time-honored tradition" wording hilarious?


Since I was deliberately mocking it, prolly not. :p

[Pepsi Man]

Since I was deliberately mocking it, prolly not. :p
Um, um, um, I meant for reasons OTHER than the fact that they've only consistantly done the HoF a couple of years in a row now. :o

[Flair Wooo]

Heh, I'm only pointing out that it's a whiny and bitchy thing for Bret to do. I'm simply backing up others' statements. I'm not crying over it, just pointing out that it doesn't take much to show up for like 5 minutes at WrestleMania.

How is it a whiney and bitchy thing to do???? Vince is lucky that he's going in it AT ALL!!!!

Bret is going to go in the hall of fame for his fans and because he DAM WELL DESERVES TO BE IN!! but i don't see how not showing up at wrestlemania is being a whiney fucking bitch!

All showing up at wrestlemania will do is make more money for vince and give more heat to the fucking shitty vince v dickhead match! So why the fuck should he do that!!

Bret Going into the hall of fame is more than i would ever dream of him doing so i'm not going to bitch and moan like a fucking faggot about him not doing WM! i'm going to thank seeing this day when he takes his rightfull place in the hall of fame!

As the title says GET OVER IT!

[Kane Knight]

Heh, I'm only pointing out that it's a whiny and bitchy thing for Bret to do. I'm simply backing up others' statements. I'm not crying over it, just pointing out that it doesn't take much to show up for like 5 minutes at WrestleMania.

Doesn't he live in Italy now?

Doesn't that mean a lot of travel time for someone with serious head injury issues?

The simplest answer is really doesn't have to do anything, and that he's already showing up for the induction, which is more than he needs to do. You say 5 minutes like he can just show up and immediately go on TV and then go home, but honestly, when does anything in TV only take 5 minutes?

Aything sounds simple if you want to oversimplify things

[TerranRich]

ania will do is make more money for vince and give more heat to the fucking shitty vince v dickhead match! So why the fuck should he do that!!

Um...what? Way to make sense.

...so i'm not going to bitch and moan like a fucking faggot about him not doing WM!

Yeah, and I'm going to take a guy named "Flair's saggy bitchtits" seriously.

If Bret wants to put it all behind him, no-showing a simple introduction and wave will raise a lot of suspicion. If I wanted to put something behind me, I'd make an appearance at WM22 and then go home. If he sees Shawn, he should, at the most, just ignore him and walk right on by. Not that hard.

That's all I'm saying, Bitchtits. No need to use exclamation marks over it!!!!111 :'(

:roll:

[TerranRich]

but honestly, when does anything in TV only take 5 minutes?

When you're called to simply step forward, wave, and step back into the shadows. Nobody's asking Bret to do a Hogan run-in and save the day or anything. Just wave hi. That's all.

Fine, I'll just stop now. It's one thing to anger Flair's saggy bitchtits. But teh Kane Knight? I go home now. ;)

[Flair Wooo]

Um...what? Way to make sense.

Are you fucking retarded or something?? Do you understand the English??



Yeah, and I'm going to take a guy named "Flair's saggy bitchtits" seriously.

It's a username on the internet what's the big deal? I think you're username is fucking stupid, but it's no reason to not take what you say any differently just because you have a stupid username! Just proves you're more retarded than i thought!


If Bret wants to put it all behind him, no-showing a simple introduction and wave will raise a lot of suspicion. If I wanted to put something behind me, I'd make an appearance at WM22 and then go home. If he sees Shawn, he should, at the most, just ignore him and walk right on by. Not that hard.

That's all I'm saying, Bitchtits. No need to use exclamation marks over it!!!!111 :'(

:roll:

If bret doesn't want to do that why the fuck SHOULD HE?? It's good enough in my eyes that he's doing it at all All this is , Is bitching internet fans finding something else apart from cena to fucking moan about!

And if i want to use exclamation marks to put my point across"TerranRich" I will..ok

[Kane Knight]

When you're called to simply step forward, wave, and step back into the shadows. Nobody's asking Bret to do a Hogan run-in and save the day or anything. Just wave hi. That's all.

Fine, I'll just stop now. It's one thing to anger Flair's saggy bitchtits. But teh Kane Knight? I go home now. ;)

You missed the point. You really don't just walk off the street and onto the stage, wave, and get to leave. It wasn't a question of "does he have to fight Vince McMahon and have HBK screw him again?" It was a question of "What do you think the odds are they he can just show up, go onstage for 5 minutes, and leave without any real hassle or slowdown?"

[TerranRich]

Flair's soggy bitchtits is the retarded version of punt apparently.

I might have missed the point, KK. I tend to do that. Thing is, what kind of hassle or slowdown would there be? i'm just curious.

[Flair Wooo]

Flair's soggy bitchtits is the retarded version of punt apparently.



Is that the best you can come up with?:nono: Very creative....or not.

[NeanderCarl]

The "time-honoured tradition" line was a joke, by the way.

Some people seem quite offended by that!

[Pepsi Man]

The "time-honoured tradition" line was a joke, by the way.

Some people seem quite offended by that!
I'm not offended, just found it funny. :p

[TerranRich]

Some people seem quite offended by a lot of things lately. :p

[darkpower]

I look at it this way:

If Bret really thinks that way, and he said those things because he's still not wanting to bury the hatchet (which, last time I checked, he was very much prepaired to do. It's Vince that keeps bringing the shit about Montreal up and shoving it down people's throats), then he doesn't deserve the HOF induction for that alone. He would be even more of a dick than Shawn ever could be.

If this is all a work, though, and we should expect to see Bret at Mania (notice I said IF before that statement), then it would be one of the biggest ones in WWE's history.

I've said it before that I do expect to see Bret in the HOF stuff at WM like everyone else has done. But I don't know if I would expect him to do anything else (though we all could be wrong). I aslo said that if Hart does do something in the Vince/Shawn match, then it would salvage any point TO the match, since the feud has lost any point whatsoever since it started.

But yeah, if Bret is really being such a dick, then throw him out of the HOF. If this is all a work, then the WWE deserves a fucking Oscar.

[addy2hotty]

I doubt its a work. Surely Harts current condition would make that not a possibility. Whats the point, after all? Why keep up the pretence when you are that ill?

Unless he's a slave to the mighty $.

Seriously if it came out as a work, I wouldn't believe anything anymore. About anything.

[Flair Wooo]

I find it really fucking sad that all bret Hart is thought of now to wrestling fans (apart from Hart fans) is a whiney fucking bitch.

Forget all that he has done for the wwe, Forget how good he was in the ring and how he went out there night after night putting on a show for the fans Forget how much he loved wrestling... just remember him as a whiney little bitch because he wont obey to stupid selfish idiots who think that unless he does the wrestlemania show then he's a crybaby.

Well fuck you. He is still is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be! Wether you want to cry and bitch like faggots or not

[Rob]

Put it this way, to all of you lot who are bitching aout Bret not being at Mania, why do you fucking care?

I guarantee all Bret's real fans like myself just don't give a fuck if he is there or not. I respect his decision to do his good byes at the HOF and leave it at that. There is no need for him to be at the PPV. Why bother coming out just to wave to a bunch of marks who probably don't even know you? They didn't buy tickets to see Bret Hart.

And since we are talking about people going to the PPV, let's all argue about Eddie Guerrero not being there. Doesn't matter that he is dead. It's just as stupid anyway.

[Kane Knight]

The "time-honoured tradition" line was a joke, by the way.

Some people seem quite offended by that!

I'm not offended, just found it funny. :p

[NeanderCarl]

And since we are talking about people going to the PPV, let's all argue about Eddie Guerrero not being there. Doesn't matter that he is dead. It's just as stupid anyway.

Oh man, don't start the conspiracists going again!

[Kane Knight]

And since we are talking about people going to the PPV, let's all argue about Eddie Guerrero not being there. Doesn't matter that he is dead. It's just as stupid anyway.

I was going to make a post like that. But then, I got to thinking, two things would happen:

1. People would start in with the reatrded "Eddie's death was a work" Bullshit.

2. Vince will exhume Eddie's body and display it in the lineup on the stage when they announce his induction.

But yeah. OMG. Eddie doesn't want to show up. What a dick.

[Rob]

Number 2 wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[Kane Knight]

The only suprising thing would be that 80% of the fans wouldn't be bothered by it in the slightest. Hell, Eddies'remains would get the biggest pop of the night...

[The Naitch]

shut the fuck up legend :lol:

[The Naitch]

ps- Bret is still a child. So Shawn is in the same building as him Boo fucking hoo. What? You can't stand a few feet away from him and ignore him?

Fuck Bret Hart :lol:

[Rob]

I don't see why WWE just don't give Bret Hart like $2 million to come in, knock out Vince, shake hands with Shawn and then leave. Well Bret probably wouldn't do it for $10 million but you get my point.

[The Naitch]

I wonder what Bret thinks about HBK being born again

Bret: Good for him

HBK: :(

[Xero]

I don't see why WWE just don't give Bret Hart like $2 million to come in, knock out Vince, shake hands with Shawn and then leave. Well Bret probably wouldn't do it for $10 million but you get my point.
You can bet that Vince had that in mind when he started booking his and Shawn's feud.

[The Naitch]

the Bret Hart fans should get compensation by having Bret's ex wife own Triple H again in a backstage promo.

[Xero]

Hey, did I read something about WWE contacting Sunny a while ago? :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

I don't see why WWE just don't give Bret Hart like $2 million to come in, knock out Vince, shake hands with Shawn and then leave. Well Bret probably wouldn't do it for $10 million but you get my point.


I'd put on a Hart costume and do it for 1 million.

[Gerard]

Bret Hart’s ex-wife Julie Hart will be in attendance for Bret Hart’s induction ceremony into the WWE Hall of Fame this Saturday night in Chicago. Julie said that she will be accompanied with their four children, Jade, Beans, Blade, and Dallas.



Never knew he had a kid called "beans" before......:|

[Xero]

That was a very kinky night...

[Rob]

Never knew he had a kid called "beans" before......:|

It is a nickname.

[McLegend]

I don't see why WWE just don't give Bret Hart like $2 million to come in, knock out Vince, shake hands with Shawn and then leave. Well Bret probably wouldn't do it for $10 million but you get my point.
According to Melzter a couple months back Vince did just that but Bret said no. I think he offered him a million don't remember though.

[NeanderCarl]

I think Vince McMahon would need his head examined if he offered Bret Hart millions of dollars to pull off a one-shot angle that wouldn't lead to any business in the future, wouldn't promote a match and basically wouldn't earn the WWE any money in return for the investment.

And I'm sure the shareholders wouldn't be too impressed, nor would the lower card guys who earn a QUARTER of that money for a whole year's hard graft.

[Rob]

I think Vince McMahon would need his head examined if he offered Bret Hart millions of dollars to pull off a one-shot angle that wouldn't lead to any business in the future, wouldn't promote a match and basically wouldn't earn the WWE any money in return for the investment.

And I'm sure the shareholders wouldn't be too impressed, nor would the lower card guys who earn a QUARTER of that money for a whole year's hard graft.

Even if he didn't promote it, Vince would make that money back in PPV replays, DVD sales and future angles and then some. It's like paying Tyson $4 million for a nights work. Everyone thought that was stupid since they just said they couldn't afford to pay Bret Hart that over 3 years and yet it was definately work every penny.

And as for his stockholders, the McMahons still own about 80% of the shares. They only answer to themselves. If he had to answer to real stockholders, they would tear him apart. He makes 3 different individual salaries all over $1 million per year, has a personal jet from company expenses and has million dollar plus bonuses every year. In the real world, investors wouldn't stand for this. But this is the world of the carnies.

[Pepsi Man]

Even if he didn't promote it, Vince would make that money back in PPV replays, DVD sales and future angles and then some.
WAY to be a Bret Hart mark, brother.:lol:

[Rob]

I'm a self confessed Bret Hart mark but whats your point. You telling me if Bret Hart showed up unannounced at say Backlash, more people wouldn't order the replays or buy the DVD than normal? Plus you have closure on this fucking Montreal finish which Vince has been milking for years. Vince built a whole PPV on the back of the possibility of Bret Hart interfering in the Michaels vs. Hogan match at Summerslam. Infact, they mentioned Hart so much in the build up that they forgot to mention Hogan would actually be working instead of him.

[Xero]

You actually think that even if Bret did do something Vince would end the Montreal shit? He would milk it even MORE once he saw what it did for buys and ratings.

[Kane Knight]

WAY to be a Bret Hart mark, brother.:lol:

Yeah, because the controversy of "Bret KOs Vince!" Wouldn't in any way sell. :|

[Rob]

Yeah, because the controversy of "Bret KOs Vince!" Wouldn't in any way sell. :|

Biggest feud in wrestling that's 9 years in the making? Nah wouldn't draw a dime.

[Xero]

WAY to be a Bret Hart mark, brother.:lol:
HULK FUCKING HOGAN!

[Pepsi Man]

A momentary punch and handshake alone would sell two million dollars worth of replays and DVDs to people that otherwise wouldn've have bought said replay or DVD? I'm sorry, but that sounds like just a BIT of a stretch to me. I'm not saying it's not controversial, but especially seeing you rip apart other controversial figures, I'm just not willing to overlook this.

I'm not saying you wouldn't get a spike, but two million dollars is a bit ridiculous.

kthxbi

[anandraval]

I wan's Hitman at Mania

[Xero]

A momentary punch and handshake alone would sell two million dollars worth of replays and DVDs to people that otherwise wouldn've have bought said replay or DVD? I'm sorry, but that sounds like just a BIT of a stretch to me. I'm not saying it's not controversial, but especially seeing you rip apart other controversial figures, I'm just not willing to overlook this.

I'm not saying you wouldn't get a spike, but two million dollars is a bit ridiculous.

kthxbi
I've got to agree with you. NO ONE is worth $2 million for a one-off angle.

[Kane Knight]

Biggest feud in wrestling that's 9 years in the making? Nah wouldn't draw a dime.

Much like Hart himself.

OH SNAP!

[Flair Wooo]

A momentary punch and handshake alone would sell two million dollars worth of replays and DVDs to people that otherwise wouldn've have bought said replay or DVD? I'm sorry, but that sounds like just a BIT of a stretch to me. I'm not saying it's not controversial, but especially seeing you rip apart other controversial figures, I'm just not willing to overlook this.

I'm not saying you wouldn't get a spike, but two million dollars is a bit ridiculous.

kthxbi

Seeing hart punch out micheals would draw $2 mill EASY!

[Rob]

I've got to agree with you. NO ONE is worth $2 million for a one-off angle.

Mike Tyson was worth double that at Mania 14. And guys like Austin, Rock, Hart, HHH and Hogan definately all had in excess of $1 million payoffs for various Mania main events.

[Pepsi Man]

Mike Tyson was worth double that at Mania 14. And guys like Austin, Rock, Hart, HHH and Hogan definately all had in excess of $1 million payoffs for various Mania main events.
And how many of these appearances were not announced beforehand?

[Xero]

Mike Tyson was worth double that at Mania 14. And guys like Austin, Rock, Hart, HHH and Hogan definately all had in excess of $1 million payoffs for various Mania main events.
The difference being that they made appearence before and/or after the event. At least Tyson was at multiple RAWs before Mania, building it up WITH HIM ON TV. Big difference between that and them just mocking Bret with no announcement, mention of his name and/or him being on the shows before and/or after the one-off.

[Rob]

And how many of these appearances were not announced beforehand?

Half the people already think Bret's gonna be at Mania. They still have the Hall of Fame to build on it if they wanted to.

And for the record, they also gave Ultimate Warrior $500k for a run in at Mania 8. And they offered Bret $1 million to referee the main event in Toronto as a surprise.

[NeanderCarl]

That's a fair point anyway. Bret Hart was never a huge draw, in his prime, when he could physically compete. What kind of difference do you people REALLY believe he would make to the WWE's financial wellbeing if Vince McMahon made him a self-indulgent offer for a one off appearance?

And the Tyson comparison doesn't hold weight, because to my memory Tyson made four seperate appearances, all strategically placed in the lead up to WM14, and which caused a wicked spike in ratings, exposed Stone Cold Steve Austin to casual fan, drummed up a lot of interest in the PPV, and turned business around for the WWF for the next three years. Hardly a waste of money.

But they wouldn't have the same effect with Bret Hart, principally because even if the casual fans DID care enough to check out the show BECAUSE of a Bret Hart angle, there wouldn't be a hot new character like an Austin for them to latch on to and become a big WWE fan all over again, because the product is average at best nowadays, whereas back in 1997/1998 the product was hot and all it needed was for the casuals/mainstreams to give it a look.

[Extreme Angle]

the only things i like about bret hart is his music and him puting somebody in the sharpshooter on the opening of malcolm in the middle...
but then again i didn't grow up watching him...

[Pepsi Man]

Half the people already think Bret's gonna be at Mania. They still have the Hall of Fame to build on it if they wanted to.
Yes, but you were talking about the scenario of "even with no build up". Not that the Hall of Fame is much buildup anyway, but still.

[Savio]

I dunno, if a guy I hated for years who accused me of cheating on my wife and then he was involved in the moment that pretty much ended my career, I'd not want to be around him either.Wow stop being a huge bret mark.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Bret is the fucking man...he's obviously gonna show up, hell he could have been entirely kidding around, you dont know.

But hey guess what? I know family members who hold grudges against other family members and wont attened events that are open invites to those they cant get along with, even after so many years. When someone just pisses you off to that extreme, I can understand it.

Bret is over it...he's just not over his distaste for Shawn, which dates back well before the screwjob. Perhaps Bret hates shawn the person, not shawn the guy who fucked over his wwf career.

But as for screwjobs, it is the wwe that cannot get over it, as evidence still shows. Just watch snme for the latest rip off.

[Kane Knight]

Zen's family are Muslim.

[Schoenauer]

Bret is the fucking man...he's obviously gonna show up, hell he could have been entirely kidding around, you dont know.

But hey guess what? I know family members who hold grudges against other family members and wont attened events that are open invites to those they cant get along with, even after so many years. When someone just pisses you off to that extreme, I can understand it.

Bret is over it...he's just not over his distaste for Shawn, which dates back well before the screwjob. Perhaps Bret hates shawn the person, not shawn the guy who fucked over his wwf career.

But as for screwjobs, it is the wwe that cannot get over it, as evidence still shows. Just watch snme for the latest rip off.
WRONG! And on so many levels Zen. Neither party will get over it. Bret is not over it, HBK sure as hell isn't over it, and Vince isn't over it.

[Kane Knight]

And Shane Helms isn't over it either.

[Xero]

Yeah, well Shane stays in the back when the shit starts to fly...

[Kane Knight]

STAY IN THE BACK! THERE'S A SCREWJOB COMING THROUGH!

[NeanderCarl]

Re: Sunny, didn't she admit to actually having an affair with Michaels recently??? Maybe it all goes back to those two fighting over the same woman!?!?

[weather vane]

He should just forgive them already.

[Xero]

Re: Sunny, didn't she admit to actually having an affair with Michaels recently??? Maybe it all goes back to those two fighting over the same woman!?!?
One of the Bret Hart marks are going to respond to that by saying they never had one (Bret and Sunny).

[NeanderCarl]

One of the Bret Hart marks are going to respond to that by saying they never had one (Bret and Sunny).

Well, didn't Sunny also make a fool of herself at some convention recently, getting thrown out for crying and harrassing Bret, talking about them getting back together or something, basically saying they used to have something going on.

Could well be that the HBK/Bret feud all stems from the fact that they were both shagging Sunny at the same time!! (While she was engaged to Chris Candido the whole time!!)

[NeanderCarl]

Basically, if the reports are accurate, then Sunny has recently admitted to affairs with both Bret and Shawn over the 1996-1997 period.

[McDoogle]

Hey Kane Knight do you ever post anything actually worth reading? Or is every post you make a terrible attempt at humor? SERIOUSLY.

[Kane Knight]

...And you are...?

[McDoogle]

Good one!

[Funky Fly]

Wow stop being a huge bret mark.
http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/b/brethart/81.jpg
Bret: Savior, you're a homo!

[Kane Knight]

Good one!

No, I mean, SERIOUSLY.

[Pepsi Man]

:D @ the new Tammy spin thrown into the HBK/Bret feud. Yeah, I know, it's not REALLY new, but it's not something that's really talked about much all the time.

[The MAC]

she said " i was the best pussy he ever had"

Bret must of thought : did you see my new wife you fat crack-whore?

[The Mackem]

Uh, yeah? Just like the past 2 WrestleManias, where the HOFers were introduced, they stepped forward, waved hello to the crowd, and stepped back. Gee, that must really be hard for Bret Hart to do.



Wow. That really must be a Wrestlemania highlight. I saw some legends wave about. Go wrestling.



Therefore, the only conclusion that I can draw from him refusing to be there, is that he just doesn't want to do a simple thing like be with the other HOFers and be introduced. He can go home afterwards. Christ.

Limited. Maybe he doesn't want to watch through a shit show, where old people waving is the only thing people watch for.

[Xero]

she said " i was the best pussy he ever had"

Bret must of thought : did you see my new wife you fat crack-whore?

Then Lita must have said: Did I leave the stove on?

Completely ignoring the situation.

[Kane Knight]

Wow. That really must be a Wrestlemania highlight. I saw some legends wave about. Go wrestling.

Have you seen the card? It could very well be the most interesting thing on the show. ;)

But apparently, Bret waving was a draw for Mania, and now, there will be rioting in the streets...

[Kalyx triaD]

After some thought:

If WM begins and ends without any Bret Hart action; I'll label him a stuck-up egotistical grudge holding pussy for the remainder of my interest in pro-wrestling.

All these years hearing about 'Bret's thoughts on this and that'; him speaking on his website about current shit and me reading it. Thinking he still cares about the business. Then the absolute perfect scenario comes up, one seemingly crafted for him to do something, and he bitches out. And we got Hitman supporters talking about his conditions and why he can't show up.

C'mon people.

The shit happened a LONG time ago. He got screwed, boo-hoo. Work into a storyline. It's not REAL, it's a story, and Vince made a last minute change. Under no circumstance was Bret's pride or compitition status put in danger. Wrestling is fake. Had he stayed he would've got some revenge in the form of an angle against HBK and became a bigger face than he already was.

And his shit against HBK? What a baby... Matt Hardy had the professional gull to not only return, but have an angle with a man who did him WAY worse than HBK did Bret. So Bret needs to man-up before he loses a longtime fan. I don't wanna waste my time on someone who considers me a waste of his time.

Boo-hoo, "Bret had a stroke, he can barely speak...yada-yada..." Get the fuck outta here, a titantron appearance that would be a deciding factor in the Vince/HBK match is all that's needed. He doesn't need to put his 'broken body' in any more danger than that. I find myself losing more and more respect for him with his dirty-diaper ways these days.

Bret needs to GET OVER IT (as with the Thread's topic) and give his fans a well earned ending to the longest angle in wrestling; real or not. Otherwise I can care less about anymore Hitman news.

[Pepsi Man]

After some thought:

If WM begins and ends without any Bret Hart action; I'll label him a stuck-up egotistical grudge holding pussy for the remainder of my interest in pro-wrestling.

All these years hearing about 'Bret's thoughts on this and that'; him speaking on his website about current shit and me reading it. Thinking he still cares about the business. Then the absolute perfect scenario comes up, one seemingly crafted for him to do something, and he bitches out. And we got Hitman supporters talking about his conditions and why he can't show up.

C'mon people.

The shit happened a LONG time ago. He got screwed, boo-hoo. Work into a storyline. It's not REAL, it's a story, and Vince made a last minute change. Under no circumstance was Bret's pride or compitition status put in danger. Wrestling is fake. Had he stayed he would've got some revenge in the form of an angle against HBK and became a bigger face than he already was.

And his shit against HBK? What a baby... Matt Hardy had the professional gull to not only return, but have an angle with a man who did him WAY worse than HBK did Bret. So Bret needs to man-up before he loses a longtime fan. I don't wanna waste my time on someone who considers me a waste of his time.

Boo-hoo, "Bret had a stroke, he can barely speak...yada-yada..." Get the fuck outta here, a titantron appearance that would be a deciding factor in the Vince/HBK match is all that's needed. He doesn't need to put his 'broken body' in any more danger than that. I find myself losing more and more respect for him with his dirty-diaper ways these days.

Bret needs to GET OVER IT (as with the Thread's topic) and give his fans a well earned ending to the longest angle in wrestling; real or not. Otherwise I can care less about anymore Hitman news.
Erm, for Matt, I don't think it was professional gull. I think it was about one thing, that being money.

As far as Bret becoming a "bigger face than he already was", someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure in the US (and consequently, on most WWF TV), Bret was still a heel at the time of the screw job.

[Kalyx triaD]

As far as Bret becoming a "bigger face than he already was", someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure in the US (and consequently, on most WWF TV), Bret was still a heel at the time of the screw job.

No, no... You're right but here's the thing:

Bret was playing the heel, but honestly; it's Bret freaking Hart. Being a heel doesn't always make you a heel and vice versa. Everytime HBK works in Canada, even now, he's booed like a heel. And he's been playing the face since his return in 2002. So let's not get too technical about this particular situation.

EDIT:

And as for Matt, sure enough money was a deciding factor; but working an angle with Edge? He didn't have to do that. It was a fan driven angle that broke the fourth wall. The resolution to the Bret/HBK/Vince can be similar.

[Pepsi Man]

No, no... You're right but here's the thing:

Bret was playing the heel, but honestly; it's Bret freaking Hart. Being a heel doesn't always make you a heel and vice versa. Everytime HBK works in Canada, even now, he's booed like a heel. And he's been playing the face since his return in 2002. So let's not get too technical about this particular situation.

EDIT:

And as for Matt, sure enough money was a deciding factor; but working an angle with Edge? He didn't have to do that. It was a fan driven angle that broke the fourth wall. The resolution to the Bret/HBK/Vince can be similar.
Yeah, Matt REALLY would've gotten his job back had he refused to work with Edge.

[Kalyx triaD]

Yeah, Matt REALLY would've gotten his job back had he refused to work with Edge.

That's over simplified. I doubt it went that way. But you have your thoughts of how the business works and I have mine.

But Bret's still being a bitch about it.

[Pepsi Man]

That's over simplified. I doubt it went that way. But you have your thoughts of how the business works and I have mine.

But Bret's still being a bitch about it.
Come on. Do you REALLY think the WWE would've hired Matt back had he said, "Yeah, look, I'd love to come back, but only if you put me on the SmackDown! brand right away and keep me away from Edge."?

[Kalyx triaD]

Come on. Do you REALLY think the WWE would've hired Matt back had he said, "Yeah, look, I'd love to come back, but only if you put me on the SmackDown! brand right away and keep me away from Edge."?

Do you really think they foreced on terms of working with Edge? At best they presented the angle to both of them and they saw the draw involved. See how that works? Either way with your thinking or mine; Bret's being a baby about this.

[Pepsi Man]

Do you really think they foreced on terms of working with Edge? At best they presented the angle to both of them and they saw the draw involved. See how that works? Either way with your thinking or mine; Bret's being a baby about this.
Nah, it was ENTIRELY optional. In fact, Matt was backstage sucking Edge off before every show.:roll:

[The MAC]

i think bret hart doesn't care or wish to be involved in wrestling- he feels did did his part- wcw did enough damage to his legac--why put another mark againt it by showing up and interfering in the match- as for coming to wave goodbye...I just don't think bret wats to put himself in the same building as HBK..

[Kalyx triaD]

...I just don't think bret wats to put himself in the same building as HBK..

Which is the gay-shit I'm pointing out.

[HaTeR]

i like the hyphen between "gay" and "shit"

[The MAC]

whats gay about not wanting to be around a dick head like shawn michaels..i mean look at your friends..they dont want to be around you..do u call them gay?

[Flair Wooo]

After some thought:

Boo-hoo, "Bret had a stroke, he can barely speak...yada-yada..." Get the fuck outta here, a titantron appearance that would be a deciding factor in the Vince/HBK match is all that's needed. He doesn't need to put his 'broken body' in any more danger than that. I find myself losing more and more respect for him with his dirty-diaper ways these days.

Bret needs to GET OVER IT (as with the Thread's topic) and give his fans a well earned ending to the longest angle in wrestling; real or not. Otherwise I can care less about anymore Hitman news.

You're an idiot! Do you know anyone that has had a stroke? No i didn't think so. so shut the fuck up you fucking clueless moron.

[Xero]

Let me just ask this: What if Shawn IS there? And Bret DOES walk out? How is his "legacy" going to look then? He leaves over a petty little thing like that and disappoints all of HIS fans? (Because, let's face it, bar Eddie, everyone is tuning in to see Bret being inducted.)

You know, people have to work with people they hate all the time (not just wrestling). If Bret can't be professional enough to show up and say goodbye to HIS fans, under those circumstances (Shawn being there), Bret is just showing that he doesn't give two shits about his fans and is a selfish piece of shit.

If he really wanted his good bye, he'd do it whether Shawn is there or not.

[Disturbed316]

ROFL @ the people saying Bret wasn't a draw.

Thats like saying Warrior isn't a crazy homophobe.

[Flair Wooo]

OMFGZZZ!!!!1111!11ONEONE!! BRETT IS A SELFISH CUNT COZ HE WONT WAVE TO ME WHAAA WHAAA BRETT IS A CRY BABY WHAAA WHAAA

Have you noticed it's all non bret hart marks that are moaning because he wont be there!

[Pepsi Man]

Let me just ask this: What if Shawn IS there? And Bret DOES walk out? How is his "legacy" going to look then? He leaves over a petty little thing like that and disappoints all of HIS fans? (Because, let's face it, bar Eddie, everyone is tuning in to see Bret being inducted.)

You know, people have to work with people they hate all the time (not just wrestling). If Bret can't be professional enough to show up and say goodbye to HIS fans, under those circumstances (Shawn being there), Bret is just showing that he doesn't give two shits about his fans and is a selfish piece of shit.

If he really wanted his good bye, he'd do it whether Shawn is there or not.
His legacy would look better if he left over Shawn being there than if he got in some sort of altercation with Shawn there, in my humble opinion.

[Xero]

OMFGZZZ!!!!1111!11ONEONE!! BRETT IS A SELFISH CUNT COZ HE WONT WAVE TO ME WHAAA WHAAA BRETT IS A CRY BABY WHAAA WHAAA

Have you noticed it's all non bret hart marks that are moaning because he wont be there!
Hey, he didn't HAVE to agree to make the DVD. He didn't HAVE to agree to show up at the HOF. But he did, and if he breaks his mark's hearts because he's a cunt, let him, no skin off my back.

[Xero]

His legacy would look better if he left over Shawn being there than if he got in some sort of altercation with Shawn there, in my humble opinion.
He can't ignore him?

What if Shawn's there and he says nothing to Bret? What would be Bret's excuse?

"OMG I SAW SHAWN MICHAELS A MILE AWAY FROM HERE FUCK YOU VINCE!"

And what about where all the wrestlers are staying? Is Bret staying in the same hotel as the wrestlers? And if so, what's he gonna say if he runs into Shawn there?

"OMG I SAW SHAWN ON THE ELEVATOR WHILE CHECKING IN! I DON'T CARE IF HE'S AN ACTIVE WRESTLER ON THE CARD, FUCK YOU VINCE!"

[Pepsi Man]

Hey, he didn't HAVE to agree to make the DVD. He didn't HAVE to agree to show up at the HOF. But he did, and if he breaks his mark's hearts because he's a cunt, let him, no skin off my back.
So wait, he doesn't have to, but if he doesn't, he's selfish? As for the DVD, as most of us are aware, he was pretty pressured into doing that. Had he not worked on it, it would've turned out much like the Ultimate Warrior's.

[Flair Wooo]

Hey, he didn't HAVE to agree to make the DVD. He didn't HAVE to agree to show up at the HOF. But he did, and if he breaks his mark's hearts because he's a cunt, let him, no skin off my back.

He's not going to break any marks hearts because he hasn't agreed to do anything anyway!!! But that's what you're all fucking forgeting isn't it! Just because he's doing HOF "DOESN'T" mean he has to show at wrestlemania!

I'm a massive hart fan and i understand fully why he doesn't want to be there! Just lke most hart marks! It's not us that's crying about it!!!

[Xero]

So wait, he doesn't have to, but if he doesn't, he's selfish? As for the DVD, as most of us are aware, he was pretty pressured into doing that. Had he not worked on it, it would've turned out much like the Ultimate Warrior's.
I'm saying that he DID agree to show up. He didn't HAVE to, but he did. So now, after all the hype, he's going to walk out over his feud with Michaels? Sounds pretty selfish to me.

As for the DVD, again, he didn't HAVE to work on it. So what if they did an Ultimate Warrior-like DVD? After all, he doesn't seem to give a shit what anyone thinks of him, so why should he care about a DVD full of supposed lies?

[Pepsi Man]

He can't ignore him?

What if Shawn's there and he says nothing to Bret? What would be Bret's excuse?

"OMG I SAW SHAWN MICHAELS A MILE AWAY FROM HERE FUCK YOU VINCE!"

And what about where all the wrestlers are staying? Is Bret staying in the same hotel as the wrestlers? And if so, what's he gonna say if he runs into Shawn there?

"OMG I SAW SHAWN ON THE ELEVATOR WHILE CHECKING IN! I DON'T CARE IF HE'S AN ACTIVE WRESTLER ON THE CARD, FUCK YOU VINCE!"
I don't see why Bret needs an "excuse". Considering Bret's not making any money off this, I really don't see how anyone can demand ANYTHING from the guy.

The situation between Bret and Shawn is just too volatile. Sure, could it be argued that Bret needs to "get over it"? Absolutely, BUT it's not as if he's not provoked almost every single time Shawn gets on a microphone in Canada. Mind you, if things got AT ALL physical, Shawn would completely dominate Bret, considering his weakened condition. Shawn has his back issues and other injuries from his career, but nothing that compares to Bret.

[Kane Knight]

i like the hyphen between "gay" and "shit"

It's to differentiate between that and the "gay shit" he does with his "uncle."

[Pepsi Man]

I'm saying that he DID agree to show up. He didn't HAVE to, but he did. So now, after all the hype, he's going to walk out over his feud with Michaels? Sounds pretty selfish to me.

As for the DVD, again, he didn't HAVE to work on it. So what if they did an Ultimate Warrior-like DVD? After all, he doesn't seem to give a shit what anyone thinks of him, so why should he care about a DVD full of supposed lies?
I don't think the man would even consider showing up at the Hall of Fame if he "didn't give a shit what anyone thought of him".

[Kane Knight]

He can't ignore him?

What if Shawn's there and he says nothing to Bret? What would be Bret's excuse?

Why does he need an excuse?

Oh, right, because a HoF ceremony is "MAKE IT or BREAK IT" for Bret Hart's career.

[Pepsi Man]

Why does he need an excuse?

Oh, right, because a HoF ceremony is "MAKE IT or BREAK IT" for Bret Hart's career.
The way a lot of people here are talking, you would think so.

[Kane Knight]

Tell me about it. Not to mention the dicotomy of the complaints that he owes it to the fans, but shouldn't care what people think about his DVD. :wtf:

[The Mackem]

I think it's the perfect ending to Bret's WWE career. Standing, in a ring, waving.

Maybe he thinks the ceremony is enough?

[Kane Knight]

I think the perfect ending to his career would be the death of Goldberg at his awesome hands. [/Hart fan]

[Kalyx triaD]

You're an idiot! Do you know anyone that has had a stroke? No i didn't think so. so shut the fuck up you fucking clueless moron.

I was gonna look up a bunch of shit on strokes to back up what I already knew and see if I missed something. But I don't have to, because the same energy used to make an appearance at the HoF ceremony could be used to greet and/or be apart of the Vince/HBK program. Get off Bret's dick and see that he's insulting you with his grudge and lack of action. I'm telling you this with all the respect I have for you and everyone else who feels like you do.

I say Bret's actions are gay-shit and it's supported by his lack of actions. You're condoning his disrespect for fans(you).

Assuming that I don't anyone who's had a stroke... good job. I won't get into details but long story short, you're an idiot. I will begin a Bret Sucks Thread if WM goes on without him getting involved. I like Bret Hart but I like Pro Wrestling better than Hart, HBK, and the WWE combined. And some people need to see the big picture.

[Pepsi Man]

I was gonna look up a bunch of shit on strokes to back up what I already knew and see if I missed something. But I don't have to, because the same energy used to make an appearance at the HoF ceremony could be used to greet and/or be apart of the Vince/HBK program. Get off Bret's dick and see that he's insulting you with his grudge and lack of action. I'm telling you this with all the respect I have for you and everyone else who feels like you do.

I say Bret's actions are gay-shit and it's supported by his lack of actions. You're condoning his disrespect for fans(you).

Assuming that I don't anyone who's had a stroke... good job. I won't get into details but long story short, you're an idiot. I will begin a Bret Sucks Thread if WM goes on without him getting involved. I like Bret Hart but I like Pro Wrestling better than Hart, HBK, and the WWE combined. And some people need to see the big picture.
I'm really not seeing the disrespect. Bret still makes plenty of wrestling related appearances in plenty of places, and from what I've seen (never met him myself) is pretty damn nice to the fans.

[Kalyx triaD]

I'm really not seeing the disrespect. Bret still makes plenty of wrestling related appearances in plenty of places, and from what I've seen (never met him myself) is pretty damn nice to the fans.

Hey, man; go for it. Feel good about it. I ain't mad at ya. I just want you to know it's not exactly him not showing up at 'Mania, that's his choice and he's a grown-ass man; but it's the pissy reasons behind it, which does not seem like a grown man to me.

But whatever, right. It's WM time let's band together as fans of wrestling and squash this shit. I'm feeling good this morning I don't need debate on my head as I go out and do shit.

Have a good day, all.

[TerranRich]

You're an idiot! Do you know anyone that has had a stroke? No i didn't think so. so shut the fuck up you fucking clueless moron.
I knew someone who had a stroke. He could still get up and walk around. He could actually -- get this -- stand up and wave, if need be.

And he didn't have the physical conditioning that Bret Hart had.

All I'm suggesting is that he show up, wave to his fans (who still exist) and just step back. It's not that hard to do.

Christ, if someone suggests he do something active, everybody bitches about how he has had a stroke, a million concussions, and can't do anything physical. And then if someone suggests all he has to do is just stand up and wave, then everybody bitches about how that's not good enough.

All I've suggested is that Bret Hart is being a tad bit whiney for not showing up at WM22 like all the other HOFers.

Put yourself in this position. You have a condition that limits your ability to do anything active. You have a grudge with like one person backstage (HBK) and were screwed over in the past but claim to be over it. Then Vince McMahon asks you to join the other hall-of-famers, who usually step forward when announced, wave to their adoring fans, and then step back. You are asked to do no less. And you refuse. What are people supposed to think?

And deceased inductees have somebody representing them (JYD's daughter, Big John Studd's son, et. al.), so the Eddie argument makes no sense. (And I don't get jokes. Humor escapes me.) ;)

And I know what you're going to say. "ISN'T IT ENOUGH THAT HE'S IN THE HALL OF FAME CEREMONY AND GAVE US 20 YEARS OF HIS LIFE TO US???!?!?!?!!" And to that, I say, YES, it's enough for me. I'm not arguing that it's not enough. All that I'm saying is that it's a little weird and whiney of him to not show up at a simple announcemeny ceremony at WM22.

I'm not arguing anything more than that. Please don't blow my words out of proportion and make me out to be some ungrateful Hart-hater. :p

[Flair Wooo]

Hey Kurt Angle sucks!!!!! He's never waved to me the fucking selfish little bastard!! Screw angle!

[TerranRich]

See? How can anybody take you seriously when all you do is make immature comments and say idiotic things. I make a simple, calm, civil argument, and you rant and rave and cry. Do yourself a favor and turn off your computer. Quickly. While there's still time!

[Flair Wooo]

See? How can anybody take you seriously when all you do is make immature comments and say idiotic things. I make a simple, calm, civil argument, and you rant and rave and cry. Do yourself a favor and turn off your computer. Quickly. While there's still time!

It wasn't aimed at you so stop getting you're panty's in a twist!

That same idiotic comment is what you are all doing saying hart is a selfish bastard because he wont come out and wave to the fans! Forget what he has done for the fans, just call him selfish (oh the irony) for not waving to you. ye:foc:

[Kalyx triaD]

It wasn't aimed at you so stop getting you're panty's in a twist!

That same idiotic comment is what you are all doing saying hart is a selfish bastard because he wont come out and wave to the fans! Forget what he has done for the fans, just call him selfish (oh the irony) for not waving to you. ye:foc:

You should do something about your name, dude.

[Flair Wooo]

You should do something about your name, dude.

Nah it's cool:shifty:

[Pepsi Man]

Nah it's cool:shifty:
ZING!

[TerranRich]

It wasn't aimed at you so stop getting you're panty's in a twist!

That same idiotic comment is what you are all doing saying hart is a selfish bastard because he wont come out and wave to the fans! Forget what he has done for the fans, just call him selfish (oh the irony) for not waving to you. ye:foc:
Are you illiterate or just plain stupid? I already told you, I'm not forgetting what he has done for the fans, his entier career. I'm a huge Bret Hart fan. I was watching his WrestleMania X match against Owen Hart the other day, in awe of the match's greatness. I'm not calling him selfish. I'm just saying that it's a little odd that he's not showing his face at WM22 along with every other hall-of-famer

That. Is. All.

[Flair Wooo]

I'm just saying that it's a little odd that he's not showing his face at WM22 along with every other hall-of-famer

That. Is. All.

Bret noted that he is nervous about the upcoming appearance. "I'll be honest. I don't mind telling you that I'm really nervous about this whole thing," he said. "I have a very serious fear of being speechless. Because of my stroke I get very choked up and it's not easy to walk out in front of a large audience that's cheering for me like that. When you have these emotional meltdowns, you can't stop them; they keep coming. You'll be talking to someone at the gift shop or while getting a coffee and someone can say the most innocent thing to you, like, 'You're going to be fine,' and all of a sudden you become this blubbering wreck of tears, and it would get to be embarrassing after a while. I worry about that. I have to make sure that during my Hall of Fame speech I don't talk too much about anything that's too emotional or else I'll fall apart."


Maybe that:roll: , and seeing as how the wwe has treated bret maybe he just doesn't want to make vince a shit load of cash for apearing there hmmm :roll:

And if you a massivge hart fan like you say you are:roll: you would understand his reasons for not wanting to be a part of wrestlemania!

[NeanderCarl]

ROFL @ the people saying Bret wasn't a draw.

Thats like saying Warrior isn't a crazy homophobe.

I'm almost sure that, on a comparitive time scale of how long he held the belt in total, Bret Hart overall is the lowest drawing WWE Champion of all-time, with Diesel and Shawn Michaels also near him on that list.

Also, WCW's ratings took a dip around the time Bret was breaking out into the main event/World title scene in 1999.

I'm not knocking him, I enjoyed his work, but facts are facts, and although I might not have the exact figures (looking them up is too much effort, but if anybody else can be bothered, then go for it!), it is widely regarded that whenever Bret Hart was featured in a prominant position in a big time wrestling company, the ratings, buy rates and gates never set the world on fire (except for maybe in Canada, where he was legitimately a major star).


Anyway... my original point has become warped along the way. I wasn't moaning that Bret Hart wasn't going to "come out and wave" at WrestleMania. It was more the point that a lot of fans may have purchased the PPV or bought live tickets, under the impression that, as in previous years, the Hall of Fame crew would come out, and that Bret Hart would be among them.

I wasn't ragging on him because it means so much to me to see him wave his hands about and force a smile. I was disappointed in him for choosing not to show up on the PPV, therefore disappointing the many fans who had hoped to see him, maybe for the first time ever, maybe for the only time ever.

As I said before, Bret is almost a God in Canada, so I hear. How many Canadians went out of their way to make it to the show on Sunday, only to find out he won't be there?

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the intrigue and controversy attached to any Bret Hart appearance at a WWE show makes him more of a draw in 2006 than he ever was when he was active!

[Disturbed316]

The reason WCW's ratings took a dip wasn't to do with Bret. The whole of WCW from the end of 98 onwards was complete shit. The decision's backstage to bring in Russo and stick the title on David fucking Arquette is what made the ratings dip. If you watched it you would know.

WCW didn't know what the hell to do with Bret Hart. Bret says it, Vince even says it. WCW's problems came about from bad business choices and mis-using talent.

[NeanderCarl]

The reason WCW's ratings took a dip wasn't to do with Bret. The whole of WCW from the end of 98 onwards was complete shit. The decision's backstage to bring in Russo and stick the title on David fucking Arquette is what made the ratings dip. If you watched it you would know.

WCW didn't know what the hell to do with Bret Hart. Bret says it, Vince even says it. WCW's problems came about from bad business choices and mis-using talent.

Well Bret was made WCW champion in 1999, Arquette was champ in 2000 after the damage had long been done. If Hart had been a draw, then the ratings wouldn't have dipped. That stands for reason, that's the whole definition of BEING a draw.

It worked with Austin... don't forget when WWE got hot in 1998, the undercard was the pits for the most part (save DX, Rock and only a few others), and remained tht way until 1999/2000. But Austin was a draw, and people tuned in, despite the shitty booking elsewhere on the show.

If Bret was a big draw, he should have had the same effect when he was the focal point of WCW. He didn't. And his time on top in WWF was also one of the lowest drawing periods of the modern era.

[Disturbed316]

But during his WWE run, Bret was a draw. Are you basing the whole "Bret wasn't a draw" on his shitty WCW career, his WWE run, or both?

[Loose Cannon]

my god. this thread. I wanted to stay away, but when I get off work, there's gonna be some ass whoopings via discussion_style :mad:

[Savio]

FUCK!- BRET!- HART!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Zen v.W.o.]

To the douche talking about Bret drawing like shit..well diesel was the champ throughout most of 95, and HBk through most of 96...the times when the wwf were at it's worst ratings wise. Do you then give Bret credit once he gets back into the main event for the increase in ratings throughout 1997? Hmm?

Not to mention Bret was their best draw outside of the usa. Worldwide he dwardfs HBK.

But you know what? It isnt just the champ that draws crowds to shows anymore. That may have happened years ago when house shows and regional shows were how the companies earned most of their cash, without the ability to get their shows on tv, but not wrestling is everywhere. Take that into effect, things are much different.

Nobody can draw when the company has no idea what their immediate culture wants from them, and are so out of the loop. You can blame bookers and writers and guys in charge for that, not the wrestlers.

[James Steele]

Look, I made my opinions regarding the HoF and Bret in another thread but I want to say that it is ludicrous to say Bret wasn't/isn't a draw. If you just look at his GLOBAL drawing power alone, it makes any "Bret wasn't a draw" arguments worthless.

[TerranRich]

And if you a massivge hart fan like you say you are:roll: you would understand his reasons for not wanting to be a part of wrestlemania!

Yehs, I am a massivge Bret Hartr fan.

But that doesn't mean I can't point out simple, insignificant behavioral patterns that I find interesting. It's not like I'm out to assassinate the guy. Christ, it's a simple discussion.

[Flair Wooo]

Yehs, I am a massivge Bret Hartr fan.

I made one typo wow like you have never done it.

But that doesn't mean I can't point out simple, insignificant behavioral patterns that I find interesting. It's not like I'm out to assassinate the guy. Christ, it's a simple discussion.

Why the fuck am i arguing whith another bret hart fan over this? Look, the way i see it we should be gratefull he is doing what he is! He has made a quality dvd and now he is doing the HOF ..If you were a real hart fan like you say you are you would understand this!!!!

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Screw Bret Hart. Never liked him, and I really could care less whether he shows up or not. I can't judge the guy personally, but from where I'm sitting, he's certainly coming off as a pompous, whining little bitch.

[Funky Fly]

Whoa

http://www.wweshop.com/product_detail.asp?CAT=FEATURED6&productId=01-07729

[NeanderCarl]

To the douche talking about Bret drawing like shit..well diesel was the champ throughout most of 95, and HBk through most of 96...the times when the wwf were at it's worst ratings wise. Do you then give Bret credit once he gets back into the main event for the increase in ratings throughout 1997? Hmm?

Not to mention Bret was their best draw outside of the usa. Worldwide he dwardfs HBK.

But you know what? It isnt just the champ that draws crowds to shows anymore. That may have happened years ago when house shows and regional shows were how the companies earned most of their cash, without the ability to get their shows on tv, but not wrestling is everywhere. Take that into effect, things are much different.

Nobody can draw when the company has no idea what their immediate culture wants from them, and are so out of the loop. You can blame bookers and writers and guys in charge for that, not the wrestlers.

The WWE ratings/house show decline started in 1992, almost as soon as Hart took the WWF belt from Flair. Granted, a lot of big stars left around that time, but if Hart was a big draw, then the fans wouldn't have switched off in droves. Bret was then featured prominantly or in a main event position until 1997. When he left, and Austin was pushed to main event, ratings improved and the companys fortunes turned around. Maybe ratings took a slight upturn in 1997, but the WWE was very heavily in the red, and only became financially secure again during the Austin era.

I have realised that even the facts are pointless ammunition in an argument with a Bret Hart mark, however, so I'd may as well save my energy. But still...

I liked the "Hitman", he was a fantastic, realistic wrestler, and what happened to him both in Montreal and in WCW was a real shame. But that doesn't mean his loyal fans have to rewrite history. His legacy is that of a fantastic in-ring wrestler, not a huge mega-star. Bret seems to be fine with that, so why can't his fans be?

And, as I already admitted, Bret WAS a good draw in Canada, and even across Europe to some extent. But WWE is an AMERICAN company that promotes the majority of its shows in, uh, AMERICA. Any WWE champion who cannot effectively draw in the U.S. is normally considered a flop, no?

[Kane Knight]

Are you illiterate or just plain stupid? I already told you, I'm not forgetting what he has done for the fans, his entier career. I'm a huge Bret Hart fan. I was watching his WrestleMania X match against Owen Hart the other day, in awe of the match's greatness. I'm not calling him selfish. I'm just saying that it's a little odd that he's not showing his face at WM22 along with every other hall-of-famer

That. Is. All.

Eddie isn't showing. That asshole. How hard would it be for him to show up?



***Credit: Rob Harvey

[Hired Hitman]

This can go on forever (But will probably stop after Sunday (American time) :cool: )

So Bret Hart isn't going to be at Wrestlemania, I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. If he does show up, yay, good for his fans that would like to see him there, if he doesn't show up, that's fine it's his choice, however he might lose some respect of his fans, but that's his loss.

People should understand that their favourite stars have the freedom to make the choices they want to make, you don't have to agree with them, nobody can change how somebody thinks, everybody makes mistakes, everybody has a flaw.

[Disturbed316]

Whoa

http://www.wweshop.com/product_detail.asp?CAT=FEATURED6&productId=01-07729

I'm so getting that.

[Zen v.W.o.]

The WWE ratings/house show decline started in 1992, almost as soon as Hart took the WWF belt from Flair. Granted, a lot of big stars left around that time, but if Hart was a big draw, then the fans wouldn't have switched off in droves. Bret was then featured prominantly or in a main event position until 1997. When he left, and Austin was pushed to main event, ratings improved and the companys fortunes turned around. Maybe ratings took a slight upturn in 1997, but the WWE was very heavily in the red, and only became financially secure again during the Austin era.

I have realised that even the facts are pointless ammunition in an argument with a Bret Hart mark, however, so I'd may as well save my energy. But still...

I liked the "Hitman", he was a fantastic, realistic wrestler, and what happened to him both in Montreal and in WCW was a real shame. But that doesn't mean his loyal fans have to rewrite history. His legacy is that of a fantastic in-ring wrestler, not a huge mega-star. Bret seems to be fine with that, so why can't his fans be?

And, as I already admitted, Bret WAS a good draw in Canada, and even across Europe to some extent. But WWE is an AMERICAN company that promotes the majority of its shows in, uh, AMERICA. Any WWE champion who cannot effectively draw in the U.S. is normally considered a flop, no?

Vince says he took the title off of Flair as it wasnt working out with him. Hogan was leaving, all their big time stars from the 80's were gone...of course they were going to lose viewerds, especialy once all those big stars left to the other company, the fans would follow them. Hardly Brets fault there.
Secondly, they then tried to market the next Hogan type of wrestler..they went with a few names, most notably Luger. They massively pushed this guy, shoved him down everyone's throats, and the fans wanted none of it. They didnt even want an american hero, they wanted the Hitman. That says alot.
He was their top man, their top draw. And he did his best with what he could do with the wwf at the time. Imagine if Bret had not have been there now? Yeah, pretty bad isnt it? Kinda scary, eh.
You gotta think about the entire scope of things here buddy.

You are only pinning everything on Bret. What about the boy toy who couldnt do anything better then Bret in 1996? Or Diesel who was awful in 1995. That proved most interesting, considering how Bret was not around for most of 1996.

Fact is, even if Bret did not draw as big numbers as Austin or Hogan in america, who fucking else has? Bret WAS their top draw in AMERICA for the time he was there. That says alot, it says he was the best they could do. That's a credit to Bret, not a discredit or anything else.

Seriously, think about what it is you're saying. Despite say Hogan, and Austin, who else touches the numbers those guys pulled in the good ol USA. Not really anyone, so how is Bret considered a flop by you when he is at the same level if not higher then anyone else but the two names I just mentioned?

Fucking schooled.

[Flair Wooo]

Great post zen:y:

And isn't it micheals who was the worst drawing champ of that time?

[NeanderCarl]

Vince says he took the title off of Flair as it wasnt working out with him. Hogan was leaving, all their big time stars from the 80's were gone...of course they were going to lose viewerds, especialy once all those big stars left to the other company, the fans would follow them. Hardly Brets fault there.
Secondly, they then tried to market the next Hogan type of wrestler..they went with a few names, most notably Luger. They massively pushed this guy, shoved him down everyone's throats, and the fans wanted none of it. They didnt even want an american hero, they wanted the Hitman. That says alot.
He was their top man, their top draw. And he did his best with what he could do with the wwf at the time. Imagine if Bret had not have been there now? Yeah, pretty bad isnt it? Kinda scary, eh.
You gotta think about the entire scope of things here buddy.

You are only pinning everything on Bret. What about the boy toy who couldnt do anything better then Bret in 1996? Or Diesel who was awful in 1995. That proved most interesting, considering how Bret was not around for most of 1996.

Fact is, even if Bret did not draw as big numbers as Austin or Hogan in america, who fucking else has? Bret WAS their top draw in AMERICA for the time he was there. That says alot, it says he was the best they could do. That's a credit to Bret, not a discredit or anything else.

Seriously, think about what it is you're saying. Despite say Hogan, and Austin, who else touches the numbers those guys pulled in the good ol USA. Not really anyone, so how is Bret considered a flop by you when he is at the same level if not higher then anyone else but the two names I just mentioned?

Fucking schooled.

Sorry, dude, but like I said there's no argueing with a Bret Hart fan by the looks of it.

I already mentioned that Diesel and Michaels were also low drawing cards during that period. Go back and read if you don't believe me.

My whole point is that Bret was not a draw. You already admit that business was in the toilet during that time. That's my point proven. If he was a draw, it wouldn't have been. That's the definition of being a "draw"!

Blame anybody else you want, but the whole point of being a draw is bringing in the fans. Bret didn't do that. And I know the product wasn't great, I've been watching since 1991. I've had to endure all that. But the WWF was putting on, for the most part, much better matches and angles than WCW from 1993 until Nitro got hot in 1996. Matches that are still strong when you watch them today. The fact is, the WWE did not have any wrestlers on it's books back in those days that were huge draws. HBK wasn't. Nash (as Diesel) wasn't. Ramon wasn't. Jarrett wasn't. Sid wasn't. Mabel wasn't. And, like it or not, admit it or not, Bret Hart wasn't. Granted, he was the best they had to offer. I agree. But when the best they have to offer is leading the WWF into the red, then my point is well and truly proven.

As for your question....

Fact is, even if Bret did not draw as big numbers as Austin or Hogan in america, who fucking else has?

Savage, Piper, Flair, Rock, Andre, Warrior, Goldberg... many more. Some of them may have sucked, and some of them may not have set the world on fire, but they've all drawn bigger than Hart at some time or another. Hell, even Sgt. Slaughter did.

I'm not trying to knock Hart. As I've said many times, I'm a fan. And that's not the point of this thread either. But you can't call him a great or consistant drawing card because that's never been proven true. Popular among the existing fan base at the time, yes. Great wrestler, yes. Canadian hero, yes. Good draw in Europe? Hell, Bret was in the main event of the largest attended WWF pay-per-view of all time, SummerSlam '92 in London. (There were more in attendance at Wembley Stadium that day than were at WrestleMania III, if you go by the genuine figures and not the official, overinflated figures). But where it counts, domestic PPV and ratings, you can't argue a case for Bret Hart as a great draw. It's a shame but it's true.

[NeanderCarl]

Great post zen:y:

And isn't it micheals who was the worst drawing champ of that time?

I believe Kevin "Diesel" Nash is the lowest drawing WWF champion of the modern era (1984 onwards), if not of all-time. This is not a time-comparitive scale. Nash held the title for about 9 months. In that time he was a piss-poor draw.

I'm not saying Bret was the worst draw ever, overall, but he wasn't a great draw, especially as the World champion, either. And if you total up his reigns as champion, there is a chance that he is right up there with some of the worst.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Sorry, dude, but like I said there's no argueing with a Bret Hart fan by the looks of it.

I already mentioned that Diesel and Michaels were also low drawing cards during that period. Go back and read if you don't believe me.

My whole point is that Bret was not a draw. You already admit that business was in the toilet during that time. That's my point proven. If he was a draw, it wouldn't have been. That's the definition of being a "draw"!

Blame anybody else you want, but the whole point of being a draw is bringing in the fans. Bret didn't do that. And I know the product wasn't great, I've been watching since 1991. I've had to endure all that. But the WWF was putting on, for the most part, much better matches and angles than WCW from 1993 until Nitro got hot in 1996. Matches that are still strong when you watch them today. The fact is, the WWE did not have any wrestlers on it's books back in those days that were huge draws. HBK wasn't. Nash (as Diesel) wasn't. Ramon wasn't. Jarrett wasn't. Sid wasn't. Mabel wasn't. And, like it or not, admit it or not, Bret Hart wasn't. Granted, he was the best they had to offer. I agree. But when the best they have to offer is leading the WWF into the red, then my point is well and truly proven.

As for your question....


Savage, Piper, Flair, Rock, Andre, Warrior, Goldberg... many more. Some of them may have sucked, and some of them may not have set the world on fire, but they've all drawn bigger than Hart at some time or another. Hell, even Sgt. Slaughter did.

I'm not trying to knock Hart. As I've said many times, I'm a fan. And that's not the point of this thread either. But you can't call him a great or consistant drawing card because that's never been proven true. Popular among the existing fan base at the time, yes. Great wrestler, yes. Canadian hero, yes. Good draw in Europe? Hell, Bret was in the main event of the largest attended WWF pay-per-view of all time, SummerSlam '92 in London. (There were more in attendance at Wembley Stadium that day than were at WrestleMania III, if you go by the genuine figures and not the official, overinflated figures). But where it counts, domestic PPV and ratings, you can't argue a case for Bret Hart as a great draw. It's a shame but it's true.


Flair was a minimal draw. While Bret was wrestling in front of thousands of fans worldwide, Flair was wrestling main events in front of half that. Drawing for venues that can fill no more then 4,000 seats in the arena is much different then doing it for arenas 3 times that size.

Again, wcw got big because of Hogan. Hogan drew. Goldberg did not, hence the fact it floundered. He was a thing of the moment , flash in the pan. Much like Warrior. Warrior eventually tanked, and very early on, and Goldberg didnt exactly do anything for the wwe, now did he?
All those other guys drew? Guess who they squared up against? HOGAN.

Bret never got that chance.

Rock is another guy who managed to become big during a time when the wrestling boom already was well on it's way. Austin stirred that, and once it was off the ground, Rock became a popular wrestler in that time, but he never had to do it alone. He reaped the benefits of a boom period..wrestling was actually realizing it's potential and booking was great..the product was great. It was all set up for him already.

You can bring back anyone you want right now though, and nothing will change. That says alot....if the product isnt good, and if the mood isnt right, you can have pretty much any wrestler you want available to you, and ratings and buy rates will not change.

Draws again, were easier to gauge way back on a regional basis. When you didnt have tv and you werent flooded with constant ppv's and ads etc.
Now if the product and company isnt at all fresh or good or interesting, then the wrestlers cant draw on their own.

[NeanderCarl]

Every wrestler who has been a draw eventually flounders. Hogan is no longer a huge draw (although he and HBK drew a big SummerSlam last year to be fair to them). Austin is no longer a major draw. Same goes for virtually everyone I've mentioned, even to a degree The Rock. Nowadays, the ratings don't tend to spike for those guys anymore.

However, at one point they did. Goldberg was certainly a draw until WCW killed his momentum by jobbing him out to Nash and also by putting him in sub-par title defences. Flair wasn't a great draw after his WWF run, but during and before he was certainly a big draw, and even in WCW's dying days, Flair's quarter-hour ratings whooped anything else on the show. Warrior still outdrew Hart, even though takings did decline when the spotlight was on him.

I'm not saying Hart was a totally shitty draw. Just not as big as people tend to make out. History is so often re-written in the wrestling business. Just keep some perspective of who Bret Hart REALLY was, at the time he was still active. Like I say, he could well be a bigger draw NOW then he was back then, due to all the controversy.

And anyone who says wrestlers can't draw on their own seem to forget about Hogan and Austin, who got hot despite shitty opponents (except Mick Foley in Austin's case). Their character or angle caught on with the public. The public made them stars. They never made Bret a huge megastar in that way. Bret had limited charisma as a babyface, never cut great promos (except in 1997 when he was a fantastic heel) and never spiked ratings or PPV buys. I'm not making this stuff up off the top of my head here. I got better things to do.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again: in the wrestling business, some fans are so blinkered that they can't accept a wrestler's shortcomings and simply accentuate their strengths in an argument.

If I was trying to sell somebody on Bret 'Hitman' Hart, I'd talk about the great matches he had, the way he carried the WWF from an in-ring standpoint for four years, his great work as a heel, the two incarnations of the Hart Foundation, the many wrestlers he had a hand in training, his rich wrestling heritage, the way he helped break the mould for smaller wrestlers to become main eventers... I wouldn't bring attention to the fact that Hart had limited mass appeal, was on top during most of the WWF's downward spiral, left due to a screwjob which led to the WWF's popularity picking up immediately as soon as he was gone, crashed and burned in WCW (not his fault, I know) and never drew the kind of ratings or PPV buys expected of a World Champion for either company. And I certainly wouldn't be ashamed to admit it, as a fan of his, if it were brought to my attention, nor make endless excuses about how it was everybody's fault but his own that he never caught on. I'm sure that's what BRET believes, but it just isn't true. Bret just didn't have the almighty intangibles to be up there with Hogan, Piper, Austin, Rock etc.

[glycerine]

You're an idiot! Do you know anyone that has had a stroke? No i didn't think so. so shut the fuck up you fucking clueless moron.


I know several people in my family who have had strokes... they could make a trinatron appearance..

but i'm not gonna argue that..

also mcdoogle.. KANE KNIGHT OWNS YOUR ASS YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKER!

i have to defend the KK...