How do u view cena now? WM spoilers (cause you know, you dont know already)

[94 SVT Cobra]

Did cena winning last night ACTUALLY make him credible in any of your minds? i know i just hate him 3 times as much now (see KK for my true hatred of cena) then i did before, and his entrance totally was so wack,.....al capone is spinning in his grave after last night. your opinions/insults on cena post mania?

[Kane Knight]

Well, if Triple H thinks he's worthy of being above the Glass Ceiling, he MUST be everything hisdefenders claim him to be...

[94 SVT Cobra]

Well, if Triple H thinks he's worthy of being above the Glass Ceiling, he MUST be everything hisdefenders claim him to be...

its not even like i can say "oh HHH is having a kid soon he doesnt want to be champ" cause the kid aint due for another 2 months....at this point in his career, HHH could hold the title for 30 min and still be viewed as a non transtional champ

[Xero]

Just the fact that he didn't drop the title makes me hate him more.

You know, I was thinking that this may actually be a whole new alignment. Putting X Pac heat aside, Cena is playing a face who is hated by more than half the crowd, but the crowd WILL pop for him when he wins/"stands up" for the face (as seen last night when they popped when he won).

While he may sound like a tweener at first, he's not, because a tweener has indistinct alignments (you don't know whether he's face or heel). Cena is clearly being booked as a face, but he's still booed.

This could be the next big thing. The face that you love to hate. It's a new concept that I have never heard of before (as far as I know no one has been booked in this manner).

It wasn't intentional, but the WWE may as well book Cena in this way if they want to keep him face.

[94 SVT Cobra]

Just the fact that he didn't drop the title makes me hate him more.

You know, I was thinking that this may actually be a whole new alignment. Putting X Pac heat aside, Cena is playing a face who is hated by more than half the crowd, but the crowd WILL pop for him when he wins/"stands up" for the face (as seen last night when they popped when he won).

While he may sound like a tweener at first, he's not, because a tweener has indistinct alignments (you don't know whether he's face or heel). Cena is clearly being booked as a face, but he's still booed.

This could be the next big thing. The face that you love to hate. It's a new concept that I have never heard of before (as far as I know no one has been booked in this manner).

It wasn't intentional, but the WWE may as well book Cena in this way if they want to keep him face.

save inovations for the scienctists and inventors....this isnt one of those "revolutionary inovations"...in science i believe this would be known as a "bad idea". they found a face people love to hate, and its not working in their benfit...THIS is what sets the whole thing aside from being "innovative" and just plain stupid.

[Xero]

Hey, I never said it's a good idea (next big thing may have been over-exaggerated), but if the WWE is so set on keeping Cena face they may as well book him like that, as the boo's ain't gonna stop.

[94 SVT Cobra]

Hey, I never said it's a good idea (next big thing may have been over-exaggerated), but if the WWE is so set on keeping Cena face they may as well book him like that, as the boo's ain't gonna stop.

i just dont understand....and i think on that note....none of us truly do. we have out notions and our personal concepts as to why....but were always forced to ask "why" at the end of the day. god i hate you vince

[Kane Knight]

save inovations for the scienctists and inventors....this isnt one of those "revolutionary inovations"...in science i believe this would be known as a "bad idea". they found a face people love to hate, and its not working in their benfit...THIS is what sets the whole thing aside from being "innovative" and just plain stupid.

Not all innovations are positive ones, bucky.

[Kane Knight]

i just dont understand....and i think on that note....none of us truly do. we have out notions and our personal concepts as to why....but were always forced to ask "why" at the end of the day. god i hate you vince

We know why. It's the same reason Taker doesn't put people over, most wrestlers won't "pass the torch," and the popular wrestlers never seem to make it big. Wrestling is about manipulating the fans and egoes, not about satisfying them.

[redoneja]

most American wrestlers won't "pass the torch"

[Kane Knight]

Well no shit, genius. Why don't you also include some other obvious statements, like pointing out that it's only professional wrestling?

:roll:

[Xero]

Hogan seems to have an unlimited amount of torches. I mean, Warrior, Hunter, Lesnar, and Rock all own a Hogan Torch. They're more common than a fucking penny.

[Nark Order]

Like I said before, I'm not a Cena fan by any stretch of the imagination... But seeing him win after being completely pissed on by the fans during the entire match looked pretty feckin cool IMO. Nobody actually thought he was going to win.

Meh. I'm so high on Wrestlemania right now though.

[chipoftheoldblock]

Cena is yuk !!

[Xero]

Like I said before, I'm not a Cena fan by any stretch of the imagination... But seeing him win after being completely pissed on by the fans during the entire match looked pretty feckin cool IMO. Nobody actually thought he was going to win.

Meh. I'm so high on Wrestlemania right now though.
Uh, how could a Cena fan like watching Cena being pissed on for that entire match?

I mean, Vermaat hated it I'm sure. (Haven't read any of his replies except one in the Mania thread and don't plan on reading them.)

[Dave Youell]

Just forget about the crowd, the entrances and all the other shit.

Last night they put on an entertaining match which I really enjoyed, I cheered Cena, I've defended him many times in the past and I will continue to do so.

[Xero]

Just forget about the crowd, the entrances and all the other shit.

Last night they put on an entertaining match which I really enjoyed, I cheered Cena, I've defended him many times in the past and I will continue to do so.
Okay Dave, I'll ignore you. You know, since you were in the crowd and everything.

(Seriously, besides the boxing-like spots they were doing, the match WAS good.)

[McLegend]

Uh, how could a Cena fan like watching Cena being pissed on for that entire match?

I mean, Vermaat hated it I'm sure. (Haven't read any of his replies except one in the Mania thread and don't plan on reading them.)
If I was a Cean fan I would be incredibly happy that he still won despite everyone hating him. Probably make me an even bigger Cena fan actually.

Also I kinda was happy he won :$

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Cena busts his ass as much as wwe will let him. He's been toned down horribly on the mic, and booked as unstoppable. That why people are booing him. Think about it, over a year ago, every fucking loved the guy. He didn't change himself, wwe changed him. Cena is a good wrestler, who is good on the mic, loves the fans, and loves what he does. I give the guy all the credit in the world.

Plus, the line he's using about "A champion isn't measured by who likes him, but the adversity he overcomes." Is actually really fitting for him right now. But their trying to have him "Not care" about the fans not liking him, but without turning him on those fans. If he came out and did a mini rap that basicaly said "Screw you, I hate you guys too" to the fans that boo him, it'd be better.

[Ninti the Mad]

Meh, I knew Cena was going to win last night. They were building him like Rocky 4 with HHH with all the technological advancements while he trained in a cold gym or whatever.

I cant see him as credible. I knew he would win and this is HHH way of saying to the fans that he isnt holding anyone down.

lol @ the fans that were shocked when hhh lost (facials were priceless)

Cant wait for RAW tonight... mostly for Shawn Michaels and Edge though.

[Xero]

Meh, I knew Cena was going to win last night. They were building him like Rocky 4 with HHH with all the technological advancements while he trained in a cold gym or whatever.

I cant see him as credible. I knew he would win and this is HHH way of saying to the fans that he isnt holding anyone down.

lol @ the fans that were shocked when hhh lost (facials were priceless)

Cant wait for RAW tonight... mostly for Shawn Michaels and Edge though.
Actually, in the long run, Triple H will be burying Cena by not taking it off him. Think about it. If he's continued to be booked as he is now he'll lose all his popularity and fans won't give a shit when he finally turns, thus keeping Triple H as the top heel and burying Cena even further.

[Nark Order]

Wow. These attempts to blame Trips for every one of WWE's problems are getting quite innovative now.

[Xero]

What, you don't think if they keep Cena as he is now he won't lose more popularity?

Not saying it will happen 100% like that, but Cena's popularity isn't exactly growning.

[Kane Knight]

Cena busts his ass as much as wwe will let him. He's been toned down horribly on the mic, and booked as unstoppable. That why people are booing him. Think about it, over a year ago, every fucking loved the guy. He didn't change himself, wwe changed him. Cena is a good wrestler, who is good on the mic, loves the fans, and loves what he does. I give the guy all the credit in the world.

Plus, the line he's using about "A champion isn't measured by who likes him, but the adversity he overcomes." Is actually really fitting for him right now. But their trying to have him "Not care" about the fans not liking him, but without turning him on those fans. If he came out and did a mini rap that basicaly said "Screw you, I hate you guys too" to the fans that boo him, it'd be better.

According to John Cena, much of the toning down was his doing (Including not rapping anymore). He's not really busting his ass if he's only giving it the "Calloway try" (Made famous for Undertaker turning into a redneck biker because Mark didn't want to actually entertain the fans anymore).

Given recent champions and their actions, I'm more inclined to believe Cena is not performing at his best. Two, count 'em, TWO B-Show champs consecutively have been more entertaining, better in-ring, better mic workers, better overall performers. Now, Kurt Angle's a given...He's Kurt Fucking Angle, and could put on a better match with a broken freakin' neck than most wrestlers could on their best day, but Batista? The guy was rather green on the mic, and still kinda clumsy in-ring when they started to feature him. Plus, they're both on the B-Show, so you'd expect less free-reign.

I've spent a lot of time defending Cena, but let's face it: If it were JUST the WWE's doing, the same would show through on the B-Show. Cena's not putting through as much effort as you'd like to think he would be. Even at his worst, Rocky was busting his ass more than this, and with a moveset that's equally as limited.

[Batsu]

I love it that Cena retained, if for anything, it opens the door for something new... like I said in the other thread.

Cena did slack off some bit...but from what I've heard, that match was great... EVERYONE expected a HHH win...and it never came. The shit storm coming out of this match is classic.

[Nervous Ferret]

I <3 Cena :(

Have since day 1.

[Volchok]

Maybe since the whole HHH/ HBK crotch chops they'll get back together.. which will piss Vince off, and then Cena sells out to Vince and then Cena will turn heel and no way if HHH/HBK teamed up they would get boo'd so.. i dunno.

[Kane Knight]

D-GENERATION H!

[redoneja]

I still don't like Cena, but I am glad that he retained.

[Arnold HamNegger]

*sigh*, well my #1 reason for watching RAW is stronger than ever now. From the sounds of it, Cena got brutalized by the crowd worse than Pedro in Yankee stadium. This whole thing fascinates me for some reason, I've never honestly seen anything like it. I'm just wondering how long stubborn ass WWE is gonna be resistive. This might be the most unique crowd seperation that a champ has maintained in the history of wrestling. Do you guys remember anything close to this? If this keeps up, it's only a matter of time before the women and children in the audience get their asses beat. :D

If RVD cashes in and faces Cena at the ECW pay per view, it could be the most rabid crowd of all time. :drool:

[Xero]

They wouldn't DARE put CENA on ONS. It'll be Rey/RVD.

[James Steele]

:lol:

Why does everybody think Cena is a good wrestler? I haven't seen anything that makes him a good wrestler. He is like Hulk hogan only with a rap gimmick and no longevity.

[Corkscrewed]

I just think they missed a huge chance with something that would go down in the books as unforgettable by having Cena simply make HHH tap out. Even an innovative FU spot out of nowhere would have been cooler IMO.

I still don't hate Cena himself. To me, his getting booed has been the result of being toned down to a lovey dovey wannabe gangsta. He was much different as the heel everyone loved, so oh well.

Based on his backstage comments after the show, it looks like Cena will continue to be the controversial face that some fans love while others hate.

[Xero]

An FU... Off a Ladder... To Triple H... In a Trash Can... Through a table... :shifty:

[James Steele]

OOOOOOOH MYYYYYYYYYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[McLegend]

:lol:

Why does everybody think Cena is a good wrestler? I haven't seen anything that makes him a good wrestler. He is like Hulk hogan only with a rap gimmick and no longevity.
Who thinks Cena is a good wrestler?

[James Steele]

Who thinks Cena is a good wrestler?
Everybody says he has it all, but Vince is holding him back and toning him down.

Does Vince McMahon have a knife to his dick saying "John, you can only punch (halfass), kick (halfass), 5 Knuckle Shuffle ( :nono: ), F-U ( :nono: ), STF-U ( :nono:x10), and have shitty overexaggerated facial reactions that either make you look consipated or make you look like you are about to cry." He doesn't even do that backdrop-into-a-powerbomb move anymore. I honestly don't think Vince would fire him if he just did a suplex more than once a month.

[Arnold HamNegger]

They wouldn't DARE put CENA on ONS. It'll be Rey/RVD.

If RVD beat Cena to become WWE champ on an ECW PPV it would be my all time mark out moment EVER....followed by Fonzie pissing on the gay Spinner belt in the middle of the ring. :love:

The Rey/RVD matchup obviously came to mind as being more realistic, but I really REALLY don't want RVD to go back to Smackdown.

Cena + ECW crowd = 187

[McLegend]

Everybody says he has it all, but Vince is holding him back and toning him down.

Does Vince McMahon have a knife to his dick saying "John, you can only punch (halfass), kick (halfass), 5 Knuckle Shuffle ( :nono: ), F-U ( :nono: ), STF-U ( :nono:x10), and have shitty overexaggerated facial reactions that either make you look consipated or make you look like you are about to cry." He doesn't even do that backdrop-into-a-powerbomb move anymore. I honestly don't think Vince would fire him if he just did a suplex more than once a month.

Cena may not have it all, but he has it.

He is a bad wrestler, but I can see why he is a main eventer. He has tons of charisma and very good mic skills.

[James Steele]

If RVD beat Cena to become WWE champ on an ECW PPV it would be my all time mark out moment EVER....followed by Fonzie pissing on the gay Spinner belt in the middle of the ring. :love:

The Rey/RVD matchup obviously came to mind as being more realistic, but I really REALLY don't want RVD to go back to Smackdown.

Cena + ECW crowd = 187

Cena + ANY crowd = 311

[Mr. JL]

Remember...

RVD and Rey were tag team champs before RVD got injured. RVD returns at the Rumble and him and Rey team up with one another. Rey inadvertantly eliminates RVD from the Rumble. Rey goes on to win the Rumble, and then win the title at WM. RVD wins an open MITB contract for a title shot of his choice.. .

[Kane Knight]

Everybody says he has it all, but Vince is holding him back and toning him down.

Be fair, even in his earlier days on Smackdown he showed off more than 5 moves. Hell, even in his more rercent days, he had the Throwback in his arsenal, and that was fucking sweet.

He can be a solid worker, but the major point is he isn't. I don't care if it's Vince, Cena, the ghost of Eddie, JEsus, or Hitler's alien clone-lovechild holding him down...For whatever reason, he kinda...Well, sucks.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

According to John Cena, much of the toning down was his doing (Including not rapping anymore). He's not really busting his ass if he's only giving it the "Calloway try" (Made famous for Undertaker turning into a redneck biker because Mark didn't want to actually entertain the fans anymore).

.

Oh? Out of curiousity, when was this said?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh? Out of curiousity, when was this said?

It was some interview recently. John Cena just cut his last threads with a lot of wrestling fans by saying that. Cena has shown talent when he needs to, and most of us simply believed the WWE tried to turn him into a safer thug-type character and started writing all his scripts for him, etc. We gave Cena the benefit of the doubt, and now he's gone and shattered that.

The WWE missed a potential mark out moment by not having RVD come down and win the WWE Title to close the show. Speaking of RVD and John Cena, now that both men are 3-0, I would love to see them join The Undertaker and Edge in a Fatal Fourway "One Streak Remains" Match at WrestleMania 23. That would be sweet. Plus, assuming RVD wins the WWE Title by then, it would have four former WWE Champions going at it. That match could pop the buyrate.

[Kane Knight]

Oh? Out of curiousity, when was this said?

IT's been posted both in this forum and in the headlines forum, so go take a look.

He's also said that he's not going to pander to the fans who are booing him.

It was some interview recently. John Cena just cut his last threads with a lot of wrestling fans by saying that. Cena has shown talent when he needs to, and most of us simply believed the WWE tried to turn him into a safer thug-type character and started writing all his scripts for him, etc. We gave Cena the benefit of the doubt, and now he's gone and shattered that.

Yeah. Pretty much he's delivered an F-U to any fan who was still holding out any hope of him improving again. I've defended Cena for over a year, because he clearly CAN be better, but now I just can't.

He's only where he's at because he showed a lot of promise, a lot of talent, and now, there's no reason to give a shit about him.

[Favre4Ever]

C'mon JamesSteele, Hogan might be bad, but even you have got to admit he isn't CENA bad.

Back to the topic at hand, I don't think RAW has been to bad lately. Every week, I get to watch John Cena get booed by thousands of people, even when he gets the upset win. Especially when he gets the upset win. And if he doesn't win, then its fun to watch him bleed, and place bets on how much he bleeds. You just wanna tune in each week to see how close he is to going completely insane.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Yeah. Pretty much he's delivered an F-U to any fan who was still holding out any hope of him improving again. I've defended Cena for over a year, because he clearly CAN be better, but now I just can't.

He's only where he's at because he showed a lot of promise, a lot of talent, and now, there's no reason to give a shit about him.

Well, it's official. Cena will be sent to Smackdown to join the lazy Cruiserweight division.

What a bitch. Cena gets over as a character who raps, then releases a rap album that thousands of fans spend their hard earned money on......then, says FUCK YOU I'm not doing it anymore. Is that the loyalty he's trying to claim as "real" now? Any Cena fan out there who buys that new shirt should be slapped in the face with a giant black dildo.

[Kane Knight]

He's keeping it real to his fans. ;)

[Arnold HamNegger]

REAL:

Fan- Why don't you rap anymore Cena?

Cena- Fuck you, I already have your money.

[Kane Knight]

He likes to keep it real...Well, keep his fans real dumb.

[Arnold HamNegger]

That's pretty easy when most of them haven't graduated elementary school yet. ;)

[Kane Knight]

Or are being ruled by their hormones.

[PureHatred]

IT's been posted both in this forum and in the headlines forum, so go take a look.

He's also said that he's not going to pander to the fans who are booing him.
.

I'm ususally not such a lazy piec eof shit, but I did a search on the headlines board and couldn't find it. Could someone link me, please? :( :kiss:

[redoneja]

Just so everyone is clear, Cena isn't botching an STF when he performs the STFU, he's performing a poor looking STS.

[shane warne]

I think Cena is a strong guy but according to my cousin he sucks

[shane warne]

His finishing manuver seemed very stupid

[Kane Knight]

I'm ususally not such a lazy piec eof shit, but I did a search on the headlines board and couldn't find it. Could someone link me, please? :( :kiss:


If TPWW wasn't being slower than Eugene in a spelling bee, I'd probably have it for you. As it is, I'm waiting for the GODDAMN forum to load.

...

...

alright, here's the thread with the article on Cena rapping...

http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44090

[Kane Knight]

It also solidly reinforced his hip-hop gimmick, although Cena maintains he has been deliberately trying to downplay that side of his ring character over the past several months.
"I specifically wanted to stop rapping every week on TV. I wanted to stop wearing the jersey every week and start wearing my own merchandise. The only real hip-hop, real urban feel that I have about my swagger is the fact that I wear Reebok sneakers and baggy jean shorts. The rest of what you see is John Cena. I'm a ballcap, T-shirt-wearing type of dude who tells it like it is. I've had my (butt) kicked before, but I've never said no to a fight. Through the long way, and that's just the way WWE works, I had to really go heavy hip hop and heavy urban. Don't get me wrong. I love hip-hop music. But it's not 100 percent of my focus. I love sports entertainment just as much as hip hop. But first and foremost, I want to be remembered as a professional wrestler, not a rapper."

[Kane Knight]

This one's just totally LOL

"I create all my own merchandise, and I try to get across the concept of what I am going through at that point and time. My latest T-shirt says 'Hustle, Loyalty, Respect.' That's telling those people who hate me that I don't care if you buy the shirt, because the people who buy it and are going to wear it with pride are the people who knew me as Prototype and knew me from way back when. As long as you have something that you can hold on to, people will attach themselves to that."


BEcause anyone who followed him as the Prototype is buying his weak ass wigger shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know whether Cena is officially trying to turn heel in the eyes of the targetted demographic, or if he truly believes what he is saying.

John, Prototype wrestled. Prototype got us behind him when he was facing Kurt Angle. Prototype had all the potential in the world. When you first became "The Dr" we cheered you. We liked you, and then we thought the WWE fucked you up, then you come out and say you fucked yourself up.

It's really hard to respect that man right now... :-\

[McLegend]

God this Cause you know, you don't know already in the thread title is really bothering me for some reason.

[Kane Knight]

I don't know whether Cena is officially trying to turn heel in the eyes of the targetted demographic, or if he truly believes what he is saying.

John, Prototype wrestled. Prototype got us behind him when he was facing Kurt Angle. Prototype had all the potential in the world. When you first became "The Dr" we cheered you. We liked you, and then we thought the WWE fucked you up, then you come out and say you fucked yourself up.

It's really hard to respect that man right now... :-\

The real problem is, he's getting me to hate him in an offscreen way. I don't care about his character. Many people do, in the form of X-Pac heat. He's failing if he's trying to be a face, but he's failing even harder if he's trying to be a heel.

[Sting Fan]

I enjoyed the hell out of it actualy and I agree with the idea of WWE abgling for a whole new type of alignment not clearly defnied as face, heel, tweener or even anti Hero.

And lets be honest you cant tell me that wasnt a hot crowd because every single crowd member was into that match from start to finish.

[Kane Knight]

I enjoyed the hell out of it actualy and I agree with the idea of WWE abgling for a whole new type of alignment not clearly defnied as face, heel, tweener or even anti Hero.

And lets be honest you cant tell me that wasnt a hot crowd because every single crowd member was into that match from start to finish.

:lol:

Bringing in a new, no-draw, alignment that transcends X-Pac heat.

[Batsu]

"Cena heat" might be the new "X-Pac Heat".

Disappointing as it is; I'm kind of indifferent to Cena not doing freestyles anymore, because that could have been grating if Cena was still doing that some 3 years after the fact, and made him one dimensional.

His current evolution of his gimmick...from over the top carciature "white rap dude" to "just plain ass John Cena with a hiphop lilt" is fine. It's the way most gimmicks nowadays should be, not cartoonish bullshit that WWE somehow manages to get over with every now and then, but too much of it makes the product just seem the kind of gay it was before Bret, Stone Cold, and HBK made WWE programming seem a bit more believable again.

What sucks about Cena is his lack of edge in the ring, and elsewhere. If he wants to be remembered as a pro wrestler, he needs to work on his in-ring. Rock got the hint that some of his boos were coming from the fact that sticking things up someone's candy ass had worn thin and everyone knew that his matches were punch, punch, BOOT, DDT....SPINE BUSTER, People's Elbow (and maybe a Rock Bottom). So every now and then, The Rock would do something like, "Fuck you guys, I'm doing a Figure Four." or ..."Kiss The People's Ass, here's a Fisherman's Suplex". Cena has done none of that. His matches have become pisspoor interpretations of Rock 2000 matches... PUNCH, PUNCH, PUNCH, wave the hand in the face, Five Knuckle Shuffle... and F-U (or STFU). It's funny that in SmackDown versus Raw, Cena has the "Cena Underhook", though I've not even seen Cena do that in a long time.

I just hate that the STF-U has no buildup whatsoever. He just locks it on, and someone's supposed to tap. I guess that might work in UFC-style fighting, but in WWE (and ironically, moreso in WWE videogames made after 2002) you have to build a submission like that up.

To be fair, they've done that with Chris Benoit (especially with the Sharpshooter) and Kurt Angle, two submission-finisher users, too. But with a guy like Cena, he needs to take more "care" of himself.

Out of the ring... where's the fire? It's like Cena has become complacent. He's got natural charisma, but he doesn't get pissed off the way he used to (the "Kurt Angle imitates John Cena" bit was brilliant, the way Cena came up all fired up). Every now and then he'll say something entertaining but he hasn't been consistent lately. And when he does, people complain that he does too much poop and gay jokes (personally, I thought his "Ooohhhhhh, the poopoothepoopoothepoopoo" routine on SmackDown against Kenzo Suzuki was hilarious). He showed this at the Hall of Fame, where, when the crowd was heavily booing him, he went along and won (some of) them over with his hilarious imitation of an NFL Films exposition on The Fridge.

Cena just seems so complacent. I hope they turn this complacency into a sort of slick heel gimmick. But...who knows.

I just want to see Cena go back and live up to his potential. (And if he does have the power to un-lame his F-U again, he should do it.)

[redoneja]

I just hate that the STF-U has no buildup whatsoever. He just locks it on, and someone's supposed to tap. I guess that might work in UFC-style fighting, but in WWE (and ironically, moreso in WWE videogames made after 2002) you have to build a submission like that up.

Answering this from a completely kayfabe standpoint:

The STFU is not an STF, which is a stepover toehold facelock, it is a version of the STS, which is a stepover toehold sleeper. So, much like a regular sleeper hold, one does not have to isolate one part of an opponet's body. Instead, its a move that'll take you out no matter when it's applied.


From a non-kayfabe POV, I somewhat agree. When a wrestler works over a body part leading up to a submission finisher, its adds alot to the story of the match.

[Batsu]

I'm aware of that move being a sleeper after seeing Cena lock it in a few times, but yeah...

the announcers do nothing to sell the "STF-U" as a credible finisher. It's just BAM!!! and there it goes...Tap out.

like SmackDown 2: Know Your Role.

[Kane Knight]

Well, it's supposed to come out of nowhere, and be instant death. Much like many submissions have been in the past.

Did Foley work over someone's tongue before the Mandible Claw/Mister Socko/etc?

Most of Tazz's uses of the Tazzmission in the WWF were out of knowhere.

Did the Rock really work the legs before performing the WSE (Worst Sharpshooter Ever)?

[Batsu]

No, and that's why the WSE sucked.

The Mandible Claw always seemed like a "OMGGETYOURHANDOUTOFMYMOUTH" move, the sock even made it more so.

Good point about Tazz though, he was notorious for the INSTA-SUBMISSION, even in ECW....

...what I should have said was that with Cena, the addition of such a move to his arsenal just makes him seem more and more the generic/"invincible" superman babyface...

[TerranRich]

...He doesn't even do that backdrop-into-a-powerbomb move anymore...
Er? He did it at WrestleMania 22, no?