What makes a "good" wrestling match?

[The King of Marks]

While this is my first post, I've been reading the forum for awhile. Anyway, I notice there are a lot of arguments about whether wrestlers are good or not. While some are universally respected (Jerico, Benoit, Angle) there are others that produce arguments (Spirit Squad, pretty much all of TNA). So I was wondering what defines a good wrestler or a good wrestling match.

For me, a good wrestling match is all about story telling. The beginning should be slow, with a theme being established for the whole match (i.e. The heel is physically stronger than the face.) The middle should be a complication to the theme (i.e. the face's daredevil moves surprise the heel). And the end should either confirm or break the theme, with some innovative high spot(s) (i.e. The face reverses the heel's power move, using his strength against him).

Using my definition, my favorite wrestlers are/were Eddie Guerrero, William Regal, The Rock, and HHH. Conversely, I never really liked Chris Benoit that much, and find 90% of TNA matches to be bad (though I do like Christian's matches).

Okay, what do you guys think? I'm sure there will be people that put more stock in impressive movesets or ring psychology (as it relates to working bodyparts).

[road doggy dogg]

CONVERSELY, ARE YOU DAVEWADDING

[The King of Marks]

Nope.

[Harry Peters]

wwefan4life?

[RP]

Conversly TNA has far better actual matches then WWE has. I'm not sure if you watch on a dailey basis, but if you did, you'd realise that. Or maybe its just my opinion. I dunno.

[The King of Marks]

Conversly TNA has far better actual matches then WWE has. I'm not sure if you watch on a dailey basis, but if you did, you'd realise that. Or maybe its just my opinion. I dunno.

That's fine if you think TNA has better matches. I'm just curious as to why you think it's better. Do you think the moves are more entertaining than in the WWE? Do you think the matches "flow" more smoothly? Does it seem more realistic? There could be many answers.

And I do tend to watch TNA every week, mostly because I just finished watching The Ultimate Fighter. I don't like the majority of the matches, but that's just because of what I consider good wrestling to be.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Good matches are totally subjective.

For example, Bret Vs HBk is a good match.

On the other hand, an old Flordia Brothers match from Dragon Gate is a good match, for a totally different reason.

A good American match and a good Lucha match are two entirely different things.

You could also say a good match for the WWE, a good match for TNA, and a good match for ROH are all different things.

[Volare]

me and someone's mom is a good match :p

[Xero]

Anything with light tubes, barbed wire and scaffolds.

[Stickman]

A match that comes across as "realistic." It needs to have flow. You can't nail somebody with a piledriver for him to get up right away and hit a powerbomb. You have to sell the moves, but not sell moves that were botched. You don't need to do a triple back flip off a clothesline, it doesn't make sense, and it's over sold. I dunno how to explain it. Watch Bret VS Mr Perfect, HHH VS HBK, those are always good matches.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Stickman I'd advise you to never watch any All Japan or NOAH matches in that case.

[redoneja]

A good wrestling match is a match that is able to successfully get the crowd to suspend their disbelief, connect with the crowd, and draw a reaction that leaves the crowd wanting more.

[Team Sheep]

Triple H vs Cena was an amazing match for a totally diiferent reason. All comes down to what you want a good match to be really. People are different.

[Dorkchop]

I find matches with a lot of reversals are good. Good examples of that are: Angle vs Benoit at Rumble 03 and Eddie vs Benoit at Vengeance 03. Jerry Lynn vs RVD is a good example too.

That and good close falls. I love when the crowd thinks the match is over and counts loudly "ONE, TWO, THRE, OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH". *kick out*

I like good reversals and close falls. They keep the match unexpected. I get bored of knowing exactly what move is going to happen next, and when the pinfall is going to happen. They keep me on the edge of my seat.

[The One]

The King of Marks = Best Newbie Ever. :y: You have The One's full support and encouragment to come by here as much as you wish!

But like others have said, a good match could be one a hundred different things. I think you more or less have the right idea about what makes a good match. Hell there have been some classics that were nothing more then mood and the story of it; there have also been incredible matches that had little to no buld up, basically involved too nobodies, but by the end they had given a classic performence. It is very dependant on what the expectation is.

For example, Dorkchop mentioned that he thinks matches with a lot of reverals are entertaining. Personally, I whole heartedly agree. And as such, when I see a card that has Angle vs. Benoit on it, I expect they live up to my hopes. If they did a Hogan/Rock type match, with a lot of crowd interaction, stare downs, and what not...I would probably say they stuck the place up.

But that really has more to do with the ability to play to one's strengths. Eddie Guerrero faced Batista in what I consider to be Dave's best matches, yet it totally flew in the face of conventional Big Bad Guy vs. Little Good Guy. But they played out crowd expectation. Nobody expected Eddie Guerrero to go out there and press Batista over his head like a heel Scott Steiner. Instead they had him play mind games, and it worked. Equally so, sit down and watch so of the Hogan matches, matches where fans get so worked up into it that the fact it is scripted doesn't even matter, they are dying to see the outcome. Hogan doesn't do reversals, he doesn't fly around, hell if he does more then three moves, it's weird. And that's fine.

Before someone brings it up, yes I still hate Hogan, yes I will always hate Hogan, no I don't think he is a good wrestler (in my eyes), however I am not so blind as to be able to see he is a draw and he knows how to play to some people.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what a particular person's strengths are, as long as you play them up and are able to incorperate some storytelling into it, it makes a good match. Most of the ECW guys couldn't make it anywhere else, and that's because Paul Heyman knew how to play to everyone's strengths. He didn't book Balls Mahoney to wrestle a technical match with Sabu, and he didn't book Chris Benoit to bust things over Dean Malenko's head. He knew how to build up a story that would easily convert into a match with the talent he had at his disposal.

Anyway, that's kind of what goes into making good matches, and seriously King of Marks, we need more new people like you, the fact that no one here had to couch you to not type like u iz da coolestest ever!!!!!!!!1!!! lolz is a good thing, plus you seem smart enough to know a thing or two, I look forward to seeing more of your stuff.