Would it be advantageous to go back to the old Champion pay system?

[Ben Rodrigues]

As I’m sure many people know the days of the WWE/F Champion being the highest paid guy in the company are long over. Now days they’ve done away with that and everyone is paid on a contractual basis. But would it be a better all round product if they re-implemented that?

Back in the day every guy on the roster wanted that top spot – whether it be for the glory of being the champion or the money. Now – there is no drive to be champion other then the recognition. So you’ve got guys who are sitting on the roster like Booker T and Shawn Michaels who have made it public they have no desire to be champion due to all the extra workload. If they reverted, would we be seeing guys putting more effort into their work and vying for that spot, or would we have backlash and face unbelievable backstage politics and refusals to job?

[Kane Knight]

Why would people strive to be on top in a system with an obvious glass ceiling?

[Ben Rodrigues]

I think the glass ceiling has become a little relaxed with the movement of Edge, Cena and RVD up the card.

[Kane Knight]

I think the glass ceiling has become a little relaxed with the movement of Edge, Cena and RVD up the card.

Edge and Cena are no different than JBL. They were pushed whether we liked them or not (Cena stopped getting reactions, Edge got no reaction but was pushed anyway), because the boss is high on them.

[Xero]

Edge and Cena are no different than JBL. They were pushed whether we liked them or not (Cena stopped getting reactions, Edge got no reaction but was pushed anyway), because the boss is high on them.
LOL

:shifty:

[Kane Knight]

That would have been funnier if I was talking RVD. ;)

Speaking of RVD, his push is there because he's a necessity to push the new ECWWE. He's the most established ECW guy in WWE, the most popular ECW guy (Barring perhaps Sabu, but he seems less a draw these days), etc.

[DRBailey]

Nah, Edge is gold man, from the brood to E n C to his current total asshole gimmick he has been entertaining. He's also a good wrestler to boot, or at least a passable one.

I'd be in favour of the system returning and fuck it, if it did go back to politics and the like for the top guy it'd make for far more interesting threads than some that are on these boards, no reference to this thread included.

[Kane Knight]

Nah, Edge is gold man, from the brood to E n C to his current total asshole gimmick he has been entertaining. He's also a good wrestler to boot, or at least a passable one.

And yet, when he was pushed, he got little to no reaction. Many of his main event segments were met with a dead crowd or "boring" chants. It's a shame this is what I said, what I was talking about, and has fuck all to do with what you're on about. You might find him entertaining. You might think Chris Masters is gold. Doesn't change how well he was recieved.

[DRBailey]

Edge is by no means my favcourite wrestler, as for the Masters comment KK i'll ignore it seeing as only VKM and Masters know how he got where he is. Anyways, my personal opinion is that Edge has earnt it really, he's not been overpushed, he's not been hotshotted to the top (see Orton, Randall).

Now I lost track of wrestling week in week out a while back when i went to university, but the RAWs I've seen must have bad surround sound or something because I've never noticed dead heat on Edge before...then again what do I know?

[Kane Knight]

HE's gotten reactions recently. When he was initialy pushed, he was getting boring chants.

So what do you know? Did you selectively have the TV on mute, or perhaps, were you not paying attention as you've already claimed? :)

[DRBailey]

Wel I watch when I watch, but being at uni kinda means no Sky or Digital so no Wrestling, I've never noticed a problem with his reactions of ocurse my 18 posts to your 88,784 probably make this a less valid opinion

[Y2Jeremy]

Your right Edge was getting no reactions before the Matt Hardy saga, and everyone here knows it, although they may pretend not to. I remember on IGN Edge said that he wants to be a heel that everyone hates, not a "cool" heel like HHH who got cheers. That is the easiest thing to be in wrestling, people hated him for being uninteresting, and he took it as him doing a good job as a heel.
But I think that wrestling now is just past the kayfabe "champ is top guy" age. maybe its for the best.

[Kane Knight]

Wel I watch when I watch, but being at uni kinda means no Sky or Digital so no Wrestling, I've never noticed a problem with his reactions of ocurse my 18 posts to your 88,784 probably make this a less valid opinion

No, you pleading ignorance makesit a less valid "opinion." The fact that you have to bring post counts into it just makes you a retard who's trying to martyr himself.

[Kane Knight]

Your right Edge was getting no reactions before the Matt Hardy saga, and everyone here knows it, although they may pretend not to.

And afterwards, he was so over, the primary chants were "We want Matt!"

And when he tried to continue on with the Kane stuff, he was met with "boring!" Chants on more than one occasion.

[Y2Jeremy]

And afterwards, he was so over, the primary chants were "We want Matt!"

And when he tried to continue on with the Kane stuff, he was met with "boring!" Chants on more than one occasion.

You are correct, sir. I can't understand why people don't realize that Edge's mainevent heat has always been based on his opponents heat. When he took on HHH and Cena, he got NO reaction, and that was a main event. I was embarrassed for him, but he didn't seem to care.

[Kane Knight]

You are correct, sir. I can't understand why people don't realize that Edge's mainevent heat has always been based on his opponents heat. When he took on HHH and Cena, he got NO reaction, and that was a main event. I was embarrassed for him, but he didn't seem to care.

Mostly because he knows what Cena knows, what HHH knows, what JBL knows, etc. If Vince likes you, it doesn't matter what the fans think. Your ratings can go down by over half a million viewers, and somehow, they'll blame Christian and Spanky for it.

[Y2Jeremy]

I like how you single out Christian and B. Kendrick. Sometime I honestly think that WWE would be better with someone else is charge. Vince was a genius, but now he seems almost senile with alot of his decisions, Like the constant Cena/Edge pushes, putting Hardy over Kennedy clean, and booking himself and shane in the Main event repeatedly.

[Kane Knight]

I dunno. Someone's gotta pay. Why not choose a cruiserweight and a guy who gets a stronger reaction than the top face?

I'm not sure Vince counts as a "Genius," HE nearly destroyed his father's company before building it up into something big. Beyond that, Austin was an accident and much of the attitude Era was reactionary towards outside forces.

[Savio]

Your right Edge was getting no reactions before the Matt Hardy saga.....people hated him for being uninteresting, and he took it as him doing a good job as a heel.I liked his whole "Its my destiny to be champ" He is ok now too.
------------
How do you mean austin was an accident?

[Y2Jeremy]

I liked his whole "Its my destiny to be champ"

Yea, that was all well and good, but he was not a draw, people found him annoying, or plain didn't care. He was all intense, but he was not entertaining enough to pull it off.

[Y2Jeremy]

I wanted Edge to succeed, and he is ok now. And now that I think about it, when Austin became a hit, McMahon wanted to name him McFreeze the wrestler and Frosty. Really, Really stupid. And he wanted Bret Hart to wear a Pinstripe suit and carry a rifle to the ring. That gimmick sounds like a winner.

Maybe he means Austin was happenstance...calling Austin an accident I don't see. Thats like calling Batista an accident because he was a heel that started getting face pops.

[Kane Knight]

Actually, Bret was meant to be in a Panda suit. Ironic, in restrospect.

[Y2Jeremy]

I don't know if irony is what I would call it...:shifty:

[Savio]

The only way I could see austin being an accident was how the "The MSG kliq incident" gave him the opportunity.

Wait no we beat kane knight;

Paul 1 - KK 0

[Kane Knight]

Austin was more or less a happy accident. Even people within WWE have said that nobody expected Austin 3:16 to catch on like it did. The massively wild anti-authoritatian thing was more something Vince was quick enough to jump on, rather than smart enough to engineer.

[Mister Sinister]

And yet, when he was pushed, he got little to no reaction. Many of his main event segments were met with a dead crowd or "boring" chants. It's a shame this is what I said, what I was talking about, and has fuck all to do with what you're on about. You might find him entertaining. You might think Chris Masters is gold. Doesn't change how well he was recieved.

And look who he was working against...John Freaking Cena....

[Dorkchop]

Austin was more or less a happy accident. Even people within WWE have said that nobody expected Austin 3:16 to catch on like it did. The massively wild anti-authoritatian thing was more something Vince was quick enough to jump on, rather than smart enough to engineer.

That's a lot of Vince and WWE's problem. They're not quickly jumping on what's catching on... They're not going with the flow. They're not really capitalizing on what is working.

Edge was getting no reactions when the WWE were pushing him as an evil heel, but the WWE is still pushing him that way. He is slightly less boring now, but only slightly. Funny how he got a reaction from sleeping with his best friend's girlfriend in real life. The fans weren't really booing Edge, as much as they were cheering for Matt.

Cena was getting his ass booed regularly more than anyone I can remember right now, but the WWE kept pushing him as a good ol' baby face (they eventually kind of went with it and let Cena aknowledge the boos).

Kennedy was getting over, and basically the fans were making him practically main event status, but the WWE is telling us that he's currently an upper midcarder.

What's the point of cheering, booing, or even reacting to something if the WWE is going to not even listen anyway.

[Jaton]

Wel I watch when I watch, but being at uni kinda means no Sky or Digital so no Wrestling, I've never noticed a problem with his reactions of ocurse my 18 posts to your 88,784 probably make this a less valid opinion

KK, don't you love when they try to bring post count into? It's amazing, you'd think that you would be the one to do that first and eat them with it. :rofl:

[Kane Knight]

And look who he was working against...John Freaking Cena....

What the Hell are you on aboot?

[Kane Knight]

That's a lot of Vince and WWE's problem. They're not quickly jumping on what's catching on... They're not going with the flow. They're not really capitalizing on what is working.

Edge was getting no reactions when the WWE were pushing him as an evil heel, but the WWE is still pushing him that way. He is slightly less boring now, but only slightly. Funny how he got a reaction from sleeping with his best friend's girlfriend in real life. The fans weren't really booing Edge, as much as they were cheering for Matt.

Cena was getting his ass booed regularly more than anyone I can remember right now, but the WWE kept pushing him as a good ol' baby face (they eventually kind of went with it and let Cena aknowledge the boos).

Kennedy was getting over, and basically the fans were making him practically main event status, but the WWE is telling us that he's currently an upper midcarder.

What's the point of cheering, booing, or even reacting to something if the WWE is going to not even listen anyway.

Yeah. Could you imagine if Austin had caught on, and they decided they needed to turn him babyface?

"THE RATTLESNAKE IS...HERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE!"

Imagine if they had made DX pro-authority.

Hell, imagine if they had tried to keep pushing Angle as face (The intent before the poor reception of his Three I promos).

The Rock?

And yet Christian gets face pops, they edit them. Kennedy gets face pops, they ignore them. Cena gets booed like crazy, they ignore them.

Edge? Yeah, most of his heat came from screwing around. That's not a good heel.

Masters got about the same reaction as Rob Conway. Pushed.

Khali? I'll take a bye on him, apparently he is only off the road, though, due to a bad liver.

What's worse is that ratings of late have been consistantly down, with the McMahons on TV, with DX, with WWECW crossovers, and yet all that shit persists. Fuck cheers and boos, this is the lifeblood of any TV show. When you drop from the #2 and 3 programming to the #5 and 9 programming, something is seriously fucking wrong.

[DRBailey]

KK, sorry to use that but I was a) knackered and b) I personally like Edge, its the way shit works, why someone's a Rams fan someones a Ravens fan.

VKM uses what works, kids are an easy market hence why Cena sells. Masters is his favourite look , Angle is proof the All-American gimmick isn't a guaranteed babyface box office smash....

Back on the topic though, thinking bout this at work, another good thing about the old system is that it encourages a fan-friendly product. Imagine HBK trying to be back at his best if he knew his pay could go up, or HHH who despite his reputation did have a spell around 00/01 I think where he was the best seller of offence around and did go as far as he could go to push himself.

Of course it works both ways, British Bulldog probably killed himself to try and be pushed on his physique and get the top-pay...

[Kane Knight]

Cena DOESN'T sell though.

Raw Ratings have been down, merch is only up in niche groups (But down in the bread and butter market), and ECW's plummet from drawing the same as Raw to drawing worse than Smackdown is an indication that he's not doing what works there.

Vince isn't using what works, or ratings wouldn't be dipping from an already unimpressive level.

[DRBailey]

Do you really see Mcmahon as a man who will change what works for HIM? Ludwig Borga? When I was eight I was meant to think he was a threat! Mabel winning the KOTR? I thought it was an upset and a fluke.

Cena has mainstream cross-over written on him apparently, the music, the gimmick (No I don't believe this)

[Kane Knight]

It's unfortunate that Vince, women, and little kids are the only ones who see this. Sad thing is, Cena's better than this, but this is all we'll ever get. I had hope for him once.

[Savio]

I dunno KK I think he push alot of mechandise, altought I have no substanchial evidence to back that up.

[Kane Knight]

He's pushing merch primarily to the minority demographics.

Pushing a lot to a small crowd is probably worse than a little to a bigger crowd.

[Savio]

Kids will buy everything though the wristbands CDS shirts hats ummmm tobe socks

[Kane Knight]

Does that work in your favor, or mine? Kidss being undiscerning sure doesn't seem to Help Cena's case, especially since Rey's moving stuff to kids as well.

[Savio]

Rey is a fucking joke and should be jobbing on velocity, suriously who books your World champ in a squash match where he's the one being squashed?

That may be irrelevent but it needed to be said.

[Kane Knight]

It is irrelevant, though the fact that he's wearing the same size shirt as the kids who buy them...

...Anyway, it's clear they never intended to make Rey champ. Otherwise, they wouldn't have put us through this garbage. But he's still a hot merch seller. Especially where kids are involved.