This new ECW is a FAILURE

[Vermaat]

This new ECW is a failure. At first I was welcome because i thought it had potential. WWE hasnt had a good hardcore division in a long time because the hardcore title was destroyed. Well, I thought here comes a new hardcore division and who better then the hardcore brand of ECW?

I was very wrong. So far ECW is a ENORMOUS failure.

First of all, it is a SCAM. ECW is suppose to be hardcore wrestling, it is suppose to be rebelious. So far I havent seen much hardcore wrestling in ECW most of it is NEAUTERED wrestling with sabu jumping on a chair or through a table once or twice. This is NOT Hardcore. Hardcore was the WWE hardcore division during the attitude era and in modern day hardcore is CZW. ECW was hardcore, but this new ECW is NOT Hardcore, it is a CHEAP immitation of hardcore. Extreme Championship Wrestling? I don't think so it is about as extreme as jbl. Thus ECW is a FAILURE.

Second, ECW had its own hardcore wrestlers. What does WWE do? They get a couple of names like Sandman and Sabu and then fill the rest with WWE guys! No problem, but this is not ECW. Kurt Angle is not ECW. Why doesn't the WWE open up their wallets and get REAL ecw stars like New Jack, Dudleys and Mikey WHIPRECK! If you're gonna be doing ECW, get real ECW stars or if youre that stingy, fine, get HARDCORE wwe guys not kurt angle. He's a good technical wrestler but he's not hardcore. Plus WWE is limiting all the ecw stars, no one is as hardcore as they can be. ECW is a FAILURE of talent.

Third, the shows themselves. One hour? ONE HOUR? how does the wwe expect ecw to be anything but a crappy jobber show with one hour. Thats not enough time to develop storylines and have good hardcore brawls. ECW is a failure of PLANNING.

I find this new ECW DISSAPOINTING. WWE needs to get their stuff together and put the hardcore back in ECW. Give us some deathmatches, some weapons matches, stuff like that. Get some burning tables, make ECW explode like it used to. But don't give us this watered down weak third WWE brand and call it ECW because it is NOWHERE near ECW.

[Xero]

I stopped reading once you brought CZW into a conversation about ECW.

[alvarado52]

Well, i mean. Did you really expect it to be the old ECW? Everyone expected Vince to take control of it in a coupe months, but he did it in a couple weeks. WWECW, not ECW my friend.

[Xero]

Well, i mean. Did you really expect it to be the old ECW? Everyone expected Vince to take control of it in a coupe months, but he did it in a couple weeks. WWECW, not ECW my friend.
Of course he expected ECW. His perfect WWE would never lie to him.

[Vermaat]

I stopped reading once you brought CZW into a conversation about ECW.

Well maybe you should get a lesson about it, because if youre talking hardcore wrestling, CZW is definetely a part of it.

If you doubt that CZW is hardcore check out their lightube matches, something the neautered ECW WOULDN'T DO.

[Kane Knight]

I knew who this was by before I even entered the wrstling forum.

If you think ECW is only about being hardcore, or ever was, or ever should be, you're more retarded than the CZW fans.

[Xero]

Well maybe you should get a lesson about it, because if youre talking hardcore wrestling, CZW is definetely a part of it.

If you doubt that CZW is hardcore check out their lightube matches, something the neautered ECW WOULDN'T DO.
The original ECW didn't even have light tube matches.

There's a fine line between "hardcore" and "garbage" buddy. And while ECW did have some garbage (see: New Jack), CZW has tons and tons more.

[The Naitch]

I stopped reading once I saw that Vermaat was the one who posted this thread

[Blitz]

IT'S STILL REAL TO VERMAAT, DAMMIT!!!!!

[Xero]

Hey, this ECW is NEW and INNOVATIVE. They're going to INNOVATIVE to new heights and are SCAMMING some of the best Indy wrestlers into coming into their NEW promotion.

[Vermaat]

The original ECW didn't even have light tube matches.

There's a fine line between "hardcore" and "garbage" buddy. And while ECW did have some garbage (see: New Jack), CZW has tons and tons more.

I didn't say they did, but that's because they were a long time ago. Lightube matche is an innovation, but I'm pretty sure old ECW wouldnt be afraid to do some lightube matches. I know it is WWE owned but I was hoping ECW would be at least like the hardcore division which is NOT.

And if u think hardcore is garbage then you shouldn't call yourself a ECW fan!

[Xero]

And if u think hardcore is garbage then you shouldn't call yourself a ECW fan!
I cannot believe you actually just said that.

Seriously. I know you like to stir the pot here, but Jesus Christ, try to ACT like you're intelligent.

[Londoner]

It's MAKE IT or BREAK it time for ECW!!!!!!

Seriously though, vermaat, you're retarded if you expected it to be like it was before. I'm actually in favour of not every match being extreme rules at the moment as the roster is so short, if they get too many injuries due to so many extreme rules matches, WWECW will be gone before its even properly started.

[Vermaat]

I cannot believe you actually just said that.

Seriously. I know you like to stir the pot here, but Jesus Christ, try to ACT like you're intelligent.

Yeah cuz it's the truth.

[The Naitch]

Vermaat had sex with Sadistic last night

[The Naitch]

okay but seriously, seeing as how Vermaat is a John CEna fan (judging by his avatar and custom title) what are your thoughts on CEna being in ECW for that short time a few months ago


























































ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!!!!

[The Naitch]

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[Xero]

Yeah cuz it's the truth.
Answer me this: Name me at least 2 ECW matches (I'm not even looking for events here) that were never released on a WWE-produced product (24/7, DVD, TV) that you have seen.

I'll bet you can't name me something that wasn't overly extreme. I have never said that ECW didn't have any garbage wrestling, only that it wasn't the big bulk and advertising aspect of the product that idiots seem to think it was today.

[Arnold HamNegger]

You know, I've been dying to mention the fact that Vermaat has been MIA since Cena lost the title to RVD......but I didn't want to jinx it.

[Xero]

You know, I've been dying to mention the fact that Vermaat has been MIA since Cena lost the title to RVD......but I didn't want to jinx it.
He didn't have anything to "push buttons", as people say.

[Kane Knight]

I didn't say they did, but that's because they were a long time ago. Lightube matche is an innovation, but I'm pretty sure old ECW wouldnt be afraid to do some lightube matches. I know it is WWE owned but I was hoping ECW would be at least like the hardcore division which is NOT.

And if u think hardcore is garbage then you shouldn't call yourself a ECW fan!

No, lighttube matches are about as much an innovation as entrance music. Garbage wrestlers across at least two countires did it concurrent with the "old" ECW, you're just one of those idiots who only knows what he sees on WWE TV.

[Arnold HamNegger]

I think he just now uncurled himself from the fetal position, where he's been sucking his thumb and repeating "UNNACCEPTABLE" since ONS.

[Kane Knight]

Also, again, ECW was not just hardcore. Hardcore is not just garbage. CZW is garbage, not because it's hardcore.

CZW and ECW are comparable because they share one initial, and that's about it. There's hardcore, and then there's garbage. The one is not necessarily the other.

[Vermaat]

Answer me this: Name me at least 2 ECW matches (I'm not even looking for events here) that were never released on a WWE-produced product (24/7, DVD, TV) that you have seen.

I'll bet you can't name me something that wasn't overly extreme. I have never said that ECW didn't have any garbage wrestling, only that it wasn't the big bulk and advertising aspect of the product that idiots seem to think it was today.


ECW had some non hardcore wrestling, thats true its not the most hardcore federation, but that doesn't mean that hardcore wasnt the focus, it was.



I think he just now uncurled himself from the fetal position, where he's been sucking his thumb and repeating "UNNACCEPTABLE" since ONS.

And you actually think giving the title to RVD was a good idea? Where is RVD now huh? Where? OH RIGHT HE FAILED.



Also, again, ECW was not just hardcore. Hardcore is not just garbage. CZW is garbage, not because it's hardcore.

CZW and ECW are comparable because they share one initial, and that's about it. There's hardcore, and then there's garbage. The one is not necessarily the other.

Hardcore is not garbage. CZW is hardcore, but it is not "garbage", it's an awesome fed that is VERY hardcore. If u don't like hardcore, it's okay, but don't call something garbage because you happen not to like it, that's downplaying all the sacrifices CZW wrestler do.

[Kane Knight]

I know you're an idiot, but you failed to name two non-WWE released ECW matches you have seen, and I never said hardcore was garbage.

Tard.

[Mr. JL]

CZW is GARBAGE, and when they are not pulling off garbage matches they have a bunch of skinny guys doing ten flips in order to accomplish an arm drag.

[Vermaat]

I know you're an idiot, but you failed to name two non-WWE released ECW matches you have seen, and I never said hardcore was garbage.

Tard.

Ah, again with the insults to show your maturity level (hint: belong in first grade).

You said CZW is garbage

As far as non wwe released ecw matches, do you really think I have a list here of matches that wwe released on 24/7 and on dvd? IT DOESNT MATTER

CZW is GARBAGE, and when they are not pulling off garbage matches they have a bunch of skinny guys doing ten flips in order to accomplish an arm drag.

Obviously CZW is too hardcore for you. Maybe u should watch golf instead and come back when you have an UNDERSTANDING of hardcore.

[Arnold HamNegger]

I've never seen CZW, is it similar to what we had out here in Los Angeles called XPW? XPW was a steaming pile of rat shit.

[Kane Knight]

Ah, again with the insults to show your maturity level (hint: belong in first grade).

Pot, meet kettle. I hear you have something to say?

You said

Sadly, your grasp of the English language doesn't even put you in first grade. I said CZW is garbage. That does not equal "Hardcore is garbage."

As far as non wwe released ecw matches, do you really think I have a list here of matches that wwe released on 24/7 and on dvd? IT DOESNT MATTER

It does matter, because you know shit about the old ECW. You don't know shit about garbage wrestling either, since you think that light tube matches are INNOVATIVE.

Obviously CZW is too hardcore for you. Maybe u should watch golf instead and come back when you have an UNDERSTANDING of hardcore.

Ain't you the hypocrite.

[Vermaat]

Sadly, your grasp of the English language doesn't even put you in first grade. I said CZW is garbage. That does not equal "Hardcore is garbage."

Basic Logic.

CZW = Hardcore.

You : Hardcore is garbage

:

CZW = Garbage.

It does matter, because you know shit about the old ECW. You don't know shit about garbage wrestling either, since you think that light tube matches are INNOVATIVE.



I didnt say lightube matches are innovative, I simply made an example of a type of hardcore wrestling match that hardcore companies are doing today that the new ECW of today which claims to be hardcore wouldn't do. It's simple really.

[Goulet]

:lol: This guy shows up like once a month and just sets this place on fire... I love it

Vermaat got peed on!

[Arnold HamNegger]

I didnt say lightube matches are innovative, I simply made an example of a type of hardcore wrestling match that hardcore companies are doing today that the new ECW of today which claims to be hardcore wouldn't do. It's simple really.

Lightube matche is an innovation,

:naughty:

Yeah, that's right.

:yes:

[Vermaat]

It was an innovation in the 90s but it is not innovative now. Mind the context.

[Kane Knight]

Basic Logic.

CZW = Hardcore.

You : Hardcore is garbage

:

CZW = Garbage.

Sorry, skippy, first off...

I said CZW is garbage. Not Hardcore.

Second, basic logic doesn't work like that. Since it would be just as retarded for you to have said:

olive=a shade of green.
You said: I hate olive
Therefore, you hate green.

By your logic, since the KKK are christian, Christians must be in the Klan.


I didnt say lightube matches are innovative, I simply made an example of a type of hardcore wrestling match that hardcore companies are doing today that the new ECW of today which claims to be hardcore wouldn't do. It's simple really.

Liar.

You said:

Lightube matche is an innovation

Right there in your own words, you called light tube matches an innovation, clear as crystal even in the face of your broken English.

[Arnold HamNegger]

I didnt say lightube matches are innovative

Lightube matche is an innovation,


It was an innovation in the 90s but it is not innovative now.

I simply made an example of a type of hardcore wrestling match that hardcore companies are doing today



:naughty: :naughty:

Yeah, that's right.


:yes: :yes:

Care to go for the hypocrite/liar hat-trick?

[Vermaat]

Right there in your own words, you called light tube matches an innovation, clear as crystal even in the face of your broken English.

See the little white square with a green arrow on it? It's called the refresh button, press it because I ALREADY ADRESSED this issue.

Sorry, skippy, first off...

I said CZW is garbage. Not Hardcore.

Second, basic logic doesn't work like that. Since it would be just as retarded for you to have said:

olive=a shade of green.
You said: I hate olive
Therefore, you hate green.

By your logic, since the KKK are christian, Christians must be in the Klan.


False. KKK and Christians on the whole are not one and the same as the KKK. Ditto for olives and "shades of green". However, CZW by definition is hardcore wrestling. It make no sense for one to say they like hardcore wrestling and bash CZW because CZW's wrestling style is hardcore wrestling.

[James Steele]

Shut the fuck up.

[addy2hotty]

See the little white square with a green arrow on it? It's called the refresh button, press it because I ALREADY UNDRESSED for you KK.

I think he likes you KK.

[Vermaat]

Shut the fuck up.

If all you have to contribute to this thread is this, then please get out. No one wants your immature comments here, it's not funny.


Arnold, you need to MIND THE CONTEXT. Like I said, Lightube matches aren't essentially innovative now, but in the CONTEXT of that topic, I was making an example of a match that is popular these days with the hardcore companies. You lack a point, come back wnen you have one.

[addy2hotty]

LMAO...'MIND THE CONTEXT'.

Should be Matt Strikers new catchphrase.

[Blitz]

All right, I'll see you all later tonight when this thread is 12 pages.

[Corkscrewed]

At first I was welcome because i thought it had potential.
So they kicked you out too, eh? It's prolly cuz you love John Cena and real ECW fans don't. ;)

Anyway, I laugh at how you claim ECW was all about hardcore wrestling. Just goes to show how ignorant you really were, since they also brough luchador wrestling to the U.S. and featured tons of technical wrestling as well. It's just that their hardcore matches were what got them the most attention, but that doesn't mean that's all they did.

But here you come, spouting about how people like Kurt Angle don't belong, and how Vince should hire the Dudley's back and such. Um... they don't want to come back. Nice try.

And "real stars like New Jack." :rofl: Yeah. Because when people think ECW, the first five names they think of include New Jack. :lol:



You've yet to address anything. You just think you have. But you're a funny guy. So it's quite entertaining when you pop up every month or so and make like a sensationalist tabloid mag. :lol:

[Arnold HamNegger]

Arnold, you need to MIND THE CONTEXT. Like I said, Lightube matches aren't essentially innovative now, but in the CONTEXT of that topic, I was making an example of a match that is popular these days with the hardcore companies. You lack a point, come back wnen you have one.

My point is that if you were to stand in a barrel of milk while you argue, by the end you would be standing on a block of cheese with as much as you bullshit your way in circles.

[Volare]

If all you have to contribute to this thread is this, then please get out. No one wants your immature comments here, it's not funny.


Yeah, take a look in the mirror Vermaat,






























Dumbass:nono:

[Vermaat]

Anyway, I laugh at how you claim ECW was all about hardcore wrestling. Just goes to show how ignorant you really were, since they also brough luchador wrestling to the U.S. and featured tons of technical wrestling as well. It's just that their hardcore matches were what got them the most attention, but that doesn't mean that's all they did.

But here you come, spouting about how people like Kurt Angle don't belong, and how Vince should hire the Dudley's back and such. Um... they don't want to come back. Nice try.

And "real stars like New Jack." Yeah. Because when people think ECW, the first five names they think of include New Jack.


Hardcore was the focal point of ECW. Sure, they brough other things to the table, but hardcore was the bread and butter. When people think of ECW, they think of extreme, of Sandman and Dudleys and Dreamer NOT of luchadors and dean malenko. They were there, but they weren't the FOCUS.

New Jack was just thrown in as an example of hardcore that ECW represents.

Also, Dudleys dont want back? If WWE gives them a big enough deal, they'll be over here in no time. WWE just wants to waste money on the great khali (CRAP) instead of getting the rigHt stars for their new brand which they call "hardcore" when it is not.

[James Steele]

Here is something INNOVATIVE...shut the fuck up.

[Vermaat]

Here is something INNOVATIVE...shut the fuck up.

Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

[loopydate]

No, Verm. WWE has offered the Dudleys (and Rhino and Raven...) a large sum of money to sign with ECW. And they refused. They're happier being big fish in the small pond of TNA.

Now, I'm going to try to play the peacemaker here, because I think there's a fundamental part of "our" argument that you're just not understanding. Hopefully, by my clarifying this, you'll be able to understand where people are coming from, rather than calling them first-graders.

We're not saying that ECW never had hardcore wrestling.
We're not saying that all hardcore wrestling is bad.
We're not saying that CZW isn't hardcore wrestling.

What we're saying is that CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. ECW had good hardcore wrestling. Matches that had psychology and a story that happened to include tables and chairs and canes. CZW is two idiots whacking each other over the head with lighttubes and calling themselves hardcore.

That's where the KKK comparison came in. The KKK are the farthest reach of the Christian Church, in that these are men who pretend to be Christian while performing horrible un-Christian acts. CZW is like the farthest reach of wrestling, in that they pretend to be wrestlers while performing in horrible matches.

ECW had some great hardcore moments, some arguably more brutal than CZW's "best" stuff. The Born To Be Wired match is a great example of this. But ECW also had Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm and Chris Benoit and Super Crazy and Mike Awesome. Guys who could go hardcore, but could also flat-out wrestle. CZW has guys like Nick Mondo and Madman Pondo who couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag.

[James Steele]

Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

:rofl:



Shut the fuck up.

[Corkscrewed]

Hardcore was the focal point of ECW. Sure, they brough other things to the table, but hardcore was the bread and butter. When people think of ECW, they think of extreme, of Sandman and Dudleys and Dreamer NOT of luchadors and dean malenko. They were there, but they weren't the FOCUS.


So how is that much different from now? In your original post, you basically said that the new ECW needs all hardcore all the time. Now you're saying it should focus on hardcore, which is a much more reasonable argument.

But frankly, right now, they already have a mix of hardcore matches and non-hardcore ones.

It's just that they've toned down the hardcore matches because they don't want wrestlers injuring each other or shortening their shelf life as workers in the company. In past arguments, you've referred to that sort of thing as "Vince caring for his workers." Now you want to bust out the chainsaws and have people mutilate each other?

It's things like that that make people call you a dumbass. And you can act high and mighty and above name calling all you like, but the fact that you consistently have holes in your arguments doesn't speak much toward your favor, and the fact that you continue to ignore your own holes and simply brush other people off as being stubborn basically invites you toward insult.

It's amazing you haven't figured this out already, but then again, I've already marked you out as one of those stereotypical Americans who refuse to admit they're wrong and never take responsibility for anything, preferring instead to believe that they're always right and that the world must adhere to them.

[Chavo Classic]

Vermaat, I think we should perhaps address the fact you've completely misunderstood what ECW was.

To the layperson ECW was about 'garbage wrestling', and many were drawn to it by the appeal of violent, no-holds barred wrestling from the likes of New Jack, the Baldies, Cactus Jack and the Pitbulls. However, ECw is better known in the wrestling community for being hardcore.

Now, please don't misinterpret the word 'hardcore' here. I do not refer to 'garbage wrestling', chair shots, broken tables, balcony dives (and in the case of CZW recently) broken lightubes, thumbtacks and water-containers. I refer to the Hardcore attitude. The Hardcore attitude refelected the 'up yours' attitude of the 90s, which as you might know, was replicated to some degree by the WWE.

ECW wasn't about garbage wrestling at all. And many within the industry would detest any similarities being drawn between CZW and ECW. If there was any exisiting federation around today which could be comparable to ECW in the 1990s it'd be ROH. Because at least ROH is thinking outside the box, against the convention of storylines, angles and gimmicks and breaking the mould just like ECW was 10 years ago.

[Vermaat]

No, Verm. WWE has offered the Dudleys (and Rhino and Raven...) a large sum of money to sign with ECW. And they refused. They're happier being big fish in the small pond of TNA.


The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small.

We're not saying that ECW never had hardcore wrestling.
We're not saying that all hardcore wrestling is bad.
We're not saying that CZW isn't hardcore wrestling.

What we're saying is that CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. ECW had good hardcore wrestling. Matches that had psychology and a story that happened to include tables and chairs and canes. CZW is two idiots whacking each other over the head with lighttubes and calling themselves hardcore.

That's where the KKK comparison came in. The KKK are the farthest reach of the Christian Church, in that these are men who pretend to be Christian while performing horrible un-Christian acts. CZW is like the farthest reach of wrestling, in that they pretend to be wrestlers while performing in horrible matches.

ECW had some great hardcore moments, some arguably more brutal than CZW's "best" stuff. The Born To Be Wired match is a great example of this. But ECW also had Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm and Chris Benoit and Super Crazy and Mike Awesome. Guys who could go hardcore, but could also flat-out wrestle. CZW has guys like Nick Mondo and Madman Pondo who couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag.

I understand all that, but I disagree. I don't see how CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. Hardcore wrestling is about being hardcore, about over the top gratuitous violence. Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans. That's why it's "hardcore" and not technical. This could be a matter of taste and that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone who says they don't like CZW's hardcore wrestling.

ECW was about Hardcore wrestling just like ECW. To say that there is no similarity between the two is simply wrong.

CZW don't pretend to be wrestlers. That's where you make the same mistake as others. They ARE wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Not technical wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image. That's why ECW had barbed wire on it's sign.

[Xero]

Still haven't gotten my answer.

I'll make it easier for you. Name five ECW matches that you liked.

[James Steele]

The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small.



I understand all that, but I disagree. I don't see how CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. Hardcore wrestling is about being hardcore, about over the top gratuitous violence. Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans. That's why it's "hardcore" and not technical. This could be a matter of taste and that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone who says they don't like CZW's hardcore wrestling.

ECW was about Hardcore wrestling just like ECW. To say that there is no similarity between the two is simply wrong.

CZW don't pretend to be wrestlers. That's where you make the same mistake as others. They ARE wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Not technical wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image. That's why ECW had barbed wire on it's sign.

You know what would be HARDCORE and VIOLENT...shut the fuck up.

[Chavo Classic]

Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans.

No, No, No, No, No

What you are referring to is garbage wrestling.

[Kane Knight]

See the little white square with a green arrow on it? It's called the refresh button, press it because I ALREADY ADRESSED this issue.

You didn't, because you still contradicted yourself. Besides, I'm not going to hit refresh (Which, by the way, is not a little white square on my browser) every ten seconds to see if you've responded. Special as you are...



False. KKK and Christians on the whole are not one and the same as the KKK. Ditto for olives and "shades of green". However, CZW by definition is hardcore wrestling. It make no sense for one to say they like hardcore wrestling and bash CZW because CZW's wrestling style is hardcore wrestling.

CZW and hardcore are not synonymous, sorry. You lose.

[Chavo Classic]

Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image.

Which ECW events have you watched? The minority, not the majority, of ECW wrestlers were garbage wrestlers.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

Your Mom will be pissed when she finds out you're not using that thesaurus she bought you for Christmas.

[Xero]

Which ECW events have you watched? The minority, not the majority, of ECW wrestlers were garbage wrestlers.
If I'm not gonna get him to name two non-WWE released matches, you aren't going to get that answer.

[Xero]

Your Mom will be pissed when she finds out you're not using that thesaurus she bought you for Christmas.
Actually, he used the word "gratuitous" correctly. I must commend him.

[Chavo Classic]

I think he's gone anyway. I hope that this is all a big wind-up because Vermaat seems a little too stubborn/naive to be genuine

[Volare]

Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

someone give him an obliterating bitch slap:yes:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Vermaat has just made me love the new ECW.

You know why so many people shit on CZW? It's because "hardcore wrestling" (the bad kind, the kind referred to as "garbage" by most people here) is its focus. Sure, they have guys who have talent working the undercard, but they seem ashamed of this talent.

When I think of ECW, I think of a company which was based on its talent. Something very different from the WWE and WCW. I think of Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn, Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio, Super Crazy, Psicosis, Chris Jericho, Yoshihiro Tajiri, Little Guido, Tracy Smothers and Tony Mamaluke. I'm sorry, but I could give a shit about guys like Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman. I have nothing against them, but their contributions to ECW are extremely overrated.

When Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman probably can't arm-wrestle with their kids anymore, because they are so broken down, you need to do something else to get people interested in your show. Granted, a lot of people are probably angry that the new ECW has rules, but it was always about using those lack of rules to enhance the performances of its talent. Sabu and Rob Van Dam is a great example of this.

Kurt Angle was actually going to be in ECW when he first got started in professional wrestling, so there goes your arguement that he doesn't belong. Angle is also one of the last big stars the WWE has. He helps promote ECW. Oh, and Kurt Angle is a former WWE Hardcore Champion, plus he's had some phenominal "extreme" matches.

By the way, Rob Van Dam didn't "FAIL" as WWE Champion. He made a mistake. John Cena makes one every week when he comes out on the stage running like a retard. Rob Van Dam got caught with drugs, the company did what it needed to do. John Cena, "Lord and Saviour of Professional Wrestling" (according to you and management) has had two WWE Championship reigns, and guess what? Non-wrestling fans don't give a shit. Most wrestling fans don't even give a shit. For a man being groomed as the next Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin, he isn't exactly drawing.

So yeah, final thoughts on the ECW matter:

"ECW was never about hardcore wrestling. The new ECW is different from it, yes, but I feel that has more to do with limitations put on the talent than the lack of "hardcore". I agree with you on the time constraints, but the WWE doesn't control everything like you think they do. Sci-Fi is only willing to give them one hour. It is up to the WWE to make the best of it. So Heat and Velocity for how easily the WWE can fuck that up.

The new ECW would be very similar to the old ECW if they do a few things:

1) Let the talent go at their own pace
2) Remove the disqualification rules, and just have talent use their personal judgment to decide when making a match hardcore is needed.

Oh, and it is not a "FAILURE". It is doing great in the ratings. I don't like it, a lot of others here don't like it, but it is probably going to get renewed as it is. The new ECW has som steps to take before it is truly great, but it can get there without the use of the "WWE Hardcore Division", which was softcore compared to most of ECW's stuff.

[Volare]

well said

[Chavo Classic]

I'm starting to take bets on which poster from casual is behind the Vermaat character. Any takers?

[Arnold HamNegger]

Actually, he used the word "gratuitous" correctly. I must commend him.

Good point Xero, my post was a FAILURE.

[alvarado52]

I didn't say they did, but that's because they were a long time ago. Lightube matche is an innovation, but I'm pretty sure old ECW wouldnt be afraid to do some lightube matches. I know it is WWE owned but I was hoping ECW would be at least like the hardcore division which is NOT.

And if u think hardcore is garbage then you shouldn't call yourself a ECW fan!

so lemme get this straight, you basically add a household or warehouse instrument in a match and its innovative? In that case, i surely cannot wait for CZW to bust out the most innovative match of all time, the spoons and masking tape match! OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!

[Volare]

That's the next hardcore innovation...loser of the match gets spooned. YES!!!!

[alvarado52]

And we all know, spooning leads to forking!

[Corkscrewed]

The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small.

You do not KNOW this. This is pure SPECULATION. You do not know if it was a BIG enough OFFER or NOT. This is not FACT because you CANNOT PROVE it.


Seriously, how can you be such a huge stickler about wrestling news sites and then go out and blatantly make a biased and opinionated statement by saying it "obviously wasn't a big enough offer"?

LOL. Silly Vermaat.

[Dorkchop]

So tell me, how did you feel when ECW folded? Oh wait, you never heard of it back then? I'd suggest you stop telling us original ECW fans that were there when it was originally around what ECW was really about.

Heyman himself has said that ECW wasn't just about being hardcore. Some - a lot was, but at the same some some - a lot of ECW was about everything else. Some of the best wrestlers to wrestle in North America wrestled in ECW. Guys that weren't hardcore like Benoit, Eddie, Rey, Austin, Super Crazy, and so on.

Original ECW fans (And even a lot of fans who didn't see it when it was originaly on) think of luchadores, chairs, high flying, tables, wrestling, the crowd, and so on. Not just hardcore.

You never saw an ECW match when it was originally on. You probably just heard of it just as One Night Stand came about last year.

I'd suggest that you seriously shut the hell up because you really have no idea what ECW was about and should be about, but you'll give me 7 paragraphs, each contradiction the previous on, about how you know what ECW was really about.

Keep digging that hole. How's China?

[Xero]

You do not KNOW this. This is pure SPECULATION. You do not know if it was a BIG enough OFFER or NOT. This is not FACT because you CANNOT PROVE it.
It wasn't on WWE.com.

[Corkscrewed]

EXACTLY!!!! REST IN PEZ DISPENSERS!!!!!!!! X( :mad:

[Chavo Classic]

Guys, he's gone. We're just arguing with thin air. Lets call time on this catastrophic thread before it reaches 3 pages.

[Kane Knight]

So tell me, how did you feel when ECW folded? Oh wait, you never heard of it back then? I'd suggest you stop telling us original ECW fans that were there when it was originally around what ECW was really about.[\quote]

But he knows it better than ECW fans, and even Paul E.

[quote]Keep digging that hole. How's China?

Oh, just that itching I got from Sha...Oh.

[Kane Knight]

Guys, he's gone. We're just arguing with thin air. Lets call time on this catastrophic thread before it reaches 3 pages.

He'll be back when he thinks up a comeback.

It make take a couple weeks...

[Fignuts]

Vermatt is the real winner here for hooking you all in yet again.

[Kane Knight]

Fucking with Vermaat is fun. It's hardly hooking anyone in, but if it makes you feel better...

[Lux]

Vermaat, why do you still breath?

[Kane Knight]

4.0, Why are you still here? I thought we agreed you were just MickieJames' imaginary friend.

[Lux]

I'm here because i signed up last september, thus i'm not even close to MickieJames' imaginary friend, i don't even want to think about it :eek:

[Kane Knight]

Sounds like another one of the white man's lies...

[Lux]

Cept i'm not white, that could be a problem

[Batsu]

You know, I marked out for the return of Vermaat.

"JBL winning the title at [EVENT] is UNACCEPTABLE" is a classic here on TPWW.

[Kane Knight]

Cept i'm not white, that could be a problem


...


...Well, there's a good explaination for that...

...LOOK OVER THERE!

[Lux]

WERE! OH MY GOD

[Jaded-Dragon]

I stopped reading once you brought CZW into a conversation about ECW.

[Skippord]

Sorry, skippy, first off...

I will not have you sully the good name of skippy by calling this retard skippy

[Kane Knight]

Sorry, emoskippord. I will be more careful in my future endeavors.

[Skippord]

Good I wish you the best in your future endeavors

[Kane Knight]

Are...Are you firing me?

[Skippord]

YOUUUUUUUURREEEE FIRRRRRRRRRED

[Shadow]

I do belive he is.

[Kane Knight]

YOUUUUUUUURREEEE FIRRRRRRRRRED

My name is K. Knight, I represent Knight, Lieberman, Scholtz and Fuhrer. I am here to serve you with an injunction preventing you from using my client, one Donald Trump's trademarks.

[Skippord]

Ok then YOUUUUUUUUUURE RELEASED From my fine organization

[owenbrown]

How good are the odds that Vermaat is one of the guys in the CZW "shoot promo" vid on YouTube? :shifty:

[Skippord]

I think he was the one in the Evil Dead Shirt

[darkpower]

As much as i hate to admit it, I think Veermat actually does bring up some good points here. Too bad there shrouded in inconsitincies and incoherence.

First, what I'm believing he's saying is that the ECW faithful, the people who had shown their loyalty through and through (and whether Ver is one of those will be open for debate for some time), are definitly showing their displerasure of WWECW. And the people they are TRYING to get to watch this can't or won't because they know just how the original WWE product is now, and doesn't expect for the new ECW to be any different. It is getting high ratings now, but how long will that hold out? We saw and heard the hardcore ECW fans in the ballroom rip the Batista/Show match a new one, and that has been a indication of just what has been the universal reaction between the ECW faithful and those who know the crapfests that Vince has been giving us lately. The new ECW is being held back, as the ECW of old really tore the roof off everything. The hardcore parts were just plain sick, and it let the wrestlers who put on the good matches really work to their full potential. The new ECW is just the WWE with an added twist which doesn't seem quite special considering how the WWE did their hardcore division in 98 before they did that 24/7 crap. It was quite a treat to see food being used for some of the matches in those ones. At least they had some sort of personality. You wanted to see what they were going to use next. Here those that should care don't and those that were faithful knew that would happen.

And I think that he was referring to the lighttube matches as what the Hell In A Cell matches were when we first saw the match. They were innovative for their time (even though both would be overused now), and a telling of what some sick matches can be like, regardless of how any one of us as individuals feel.

I wouldn't say that the new ECW is a failure yet, though. It will be if Vince keeps trying to WWEify (if that's a word) the product.

[Kane Knight]

And I think that he was referring to the lighttube matches as what the Hell In A Cell matches were when we first saw the match. They were innovative for their time (even though both would be overused now), and a telling of what some sick matches can be like, regardless of how any one of us as individuals feel.

Too bad he was saying ECW wouldn't have been above using them, were they around at the time. He may claim otherwise, but he even went on to claim that these are matches a hardcore company today would use.

Ironically, he told us to mind the context, but the context is more damning than anything.

[Vermaat]

I'll make it easier for you. Name five ECW matches that you liked.

1. Baldies vs Rotten/Mahoney
2. New Jack Vs Mustafa.
3. Funk Vs Sabu (Born to be wired)
4. Sabu Vs. The Sandman (Stairway to hell)
5. Ian Rotten Vs. Axl Rotten (Dethmatch)

Whats ur point? That, "OH BUT MOST OF THESE GUYS ARE IN THE NEW ECW?" Well, sure they are but they are NEAUTERED.

No, No, No, No, No

What you are referring to is garbage wrestling.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's garbage. It is still hardcore wrestlin.

You didn't, because you still contradicted yourself. Besides, I'm not going to hit refresh (Which, by the way, is not a little white square on my browser) every ten seconds to see if you've responded. Special as you are...


The guy who doesn't see my post adressing the issue calling someone else special? LOOK UP IRONY IN THE DICTIONARY.

CZW and hardcore are not synonymous, sorry. You lose.

CZW is a hardcore wrestling federation. Their specialty? Hardcore wrestling. Their product? Hardcore wrestling.

You know why so many people shit on CZW? It's because "hardcore wrestling" (the bad kind, the kind referred to as "garbage" by most people here) is its focus. Sure, they have guys who have talent working the undercard, but they seem ashamed of this talent.

It is not garbage, it is REAL hardcore wrestling. What the new ECW is showing is NOT hardcore wrestling.

Kurt Angle was actually going to be in ECW when he first got started in professional wrestling, so there goes your arguement that he doesn't belong. Angle is also one of the last big stars the WWE has. He helps promote ECW. Oh, and Kurt Angle is a former WWE Hardcore Champion, plus he's had some phenominal "extreme" matches.


All true, but Kurt Angle is OLD today. He is BROKEN DOWN. HE CANNOT handle hardcore anymore. I like angle, but it's time to retire, not go to ECW.

By the way, Rob Van Dam didn't "FAIL" as WWE Champion. He made a mistake. John Cena makes one every week when he comes out on the stage running like a retard. Rob Van Dam got caught with drugs, the company did what it needed to do. John Cena, "Lord and Saviour of Professional Wrestling" (according to you and management) has had two WWE Championship reigns, and guess what? Non-wrestling fans don't give a shit. Most wrestling fans don't even give a shit. For a man being groomed as the next Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin, he isn't exactly drawing.


RVD failed in my eyes by being IRRESPONSIBLE. Not to mention he can't handle the microphone. John Cena knows how to be a RESPONSIBLE champion. Wrestling fans don't give a shit? He gets some of the biggest reaction out of the whole roster, why do u think WWE is pushing him. Non wrestling fans? He already has a movie deal! And these days, non wrestling fans don't care about WRESTLERS because they are not fans of WRESTLING common sense.

Oh, and it is not a "FAILURE". It is doing great in the ratings. I don't like it, a lot of others here don't like it, but it is probably going to get renewed as it is. The new ECW has som steps to take before it is truly great, but it can get there without the use of the "WWE Hardcore Division", which was softcore compared to most of ECW's stuff.

It might be an economic sucess, but for what it is being advertised as, hardcore wrestling it's a failure. It's also a failure of the name.

You do not KNOW this. This is pure SPECULATION. You do not know if it was a BIG enough OFFER or NOT. This is not FACT because you CANNOT PROVE it.


It's called logic. There is no reason why Dudleys wouldn't want to work for the WWE unless it was a money issue. They are wrestlers, WWE is the best wrestling federation, so of course they want to be there so I guess WWE didn't give them the money they deserved. Anything else is NOT LOGICAL.

Heyman himself has said that ECW wasn't just about being hardcore. Some - a lot was, but at the same some some - a lot of ECW was about everything else. Some of the best wrestlers to wrestle in North America wrestled in ECW. Guys that weren't hardcore like Benoit, Eddie, Rey, Austin, Super Crazy, and so on.

Original ECW fans (And even a lot of fans who didn't see it when it was originaly on) think of luchadores, chairs, high flying, tables, wrestling, the crowd, and so on. Not just hardcore.

You never saw an ECW match when it was originally on. You probably just heard of it just as One Night Stand came about last year.

I'd suggest that you seriously shut the hell up because you really have no idea what ECW was about and should be about, but you'll give me 7 paragraphs, each contradiction the previous on, about how you know what ECW was really about.


I watched some original ECW. It doesn't matter if you watched longer when I have THE FACTS. Oh and by the way, Chairs, High Flying, Tables and wrestling can be HARDCORE too. I know very well what ECW is about, it is about EXTREME and EXTREME is what it is not giving us today. It had technical wrestling, but like I said, it was NOT the focus. They didn't call themselves MCW, MAT CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING, they were EXTREME.

common sense!

We saw and heard the hardcore ECW fans in the ballroom rip the Batista/Show match a new one, and that has been a indication of just what has been the universal reaction between the ECW faithful and those who know the crapfests that Vince has been giving us lately. The new ECW is being held back, as the ECW of old really tore the roof off everything. The hardcore parts were just plain sick, and it let the wrestlers who put on the good matches really work to their full potential.

Exactly! WWE censored the crowd as much as they could and don't let the crowd get all out and EXTREME like real ECW did.

The new ECW is just the WWE with an added twist

Good point.

Too bad he was saying ECW wouldn't have been above using them, were they around at the time. He may claim otherwise, but he even went on to claim that these are matches a hardcore company today would use.



Yes, a REAL hardcore federation would go for stuff like lightube matches and such, but the new ECW is too afraid to bring this into the fold and thus my point was that they would be afraid to bring something new in and thus innovate. It would be innovative for ECW to use, because it hasn't used it in the past, it would be something new, but WWE is too concerned about their workers safety and looking well rather then give us real hardcore. This ain't the spirit of ECW.

[D Mac]

CAPITALIZATION is not needed in every sentence.

[Vermaat]

CAPITALIZATION is not needed in every sentence.

It's called EMPHASIS :roll:

[D Mac]

I'm Matt Styker and I am YOUR TEACHER!


:rofl: :rofl: I am so god damn funny it's not even funny. :shifty:

[Xero]

1. Baldies vs Rotten/Mahoney
2. New Jack Vs Mustafa.
3. Funk Vs Sabu (Born to be wired)
4. Sabu Vs. The Sandman (Stairway to hell)
5. Ian Rotten Vs. Axl Rotten (Dethmatch)

Whats ur point? That, "OH BUT MOST OF THESE GUYS ARE IN THE NEW ECW?" Well, sure they are but they are NEAUTERED.
My point is that you have only seen the extreme matches, and you just proved that to me.

[Vermaat]

My point is that you have only seen the extreme matches, and you just proved that to me.

Thats just five I liked best. It proves nothing, I saw technical matches but they were boring. I am not denying that ECW had technical matches.

[Kane Knight]

Yes, a REAL hardcore federation would go for stuff like lightube matches and such, but the new ECW is too afraid to bring this into the fold and thus my point was that they would be afraid to bring something new in and thus innovate. It would be innovative for ECW to use, because it hasn't used it in the past, it would be something new, but WWE is too concerned about their workers safety and looking well rather then give us real hardcore. This ain't the spirit of ECW.

But the old ECW didn't, even though they ran concurrent with promotions that did. You said that people who bad CZW shoulddn't call themselves ECW fans (via your logic that if people call CZW garbage they call hardcore garbage).

There's like, 15 different ways you contradict yourself with this little statement.

[Kane Knight]

It's called BEING TOO STUPID TO KNOW HOW TO FORMAT :roll:

[Pepsi Man]

Damn, I'm not very fond of what ECW has turned out to be, but reading your post doesn't do anything for that argument. Did you ever actually follow ECW? The whole "omfg kurt angel iz nut dat hardkore so he shudnt b in it" line proved to me that you know nothing about ECW. For every Sandman, there was a Chris Benoit. For every Sabu, there was an RVD (yeah, you could call him "hardcore", but he's as much about high flying and aerial attacks as anything else). For every Tommy Dreamer, there was a Dean Malenko. For every Balls Mahoney, there was a Lance Storm. For every Axl Rotten, there was a Steve Corino.

The list goes on and on and on.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, RVD was sorta hardcore, but he was less about a hardcore match than a couple of hardcore spots within a match.

Some of the greatest non-hardcore wrestlers came out of ECW, including not just technical wrestlers, but high-fliers. I mean, Vermie himself fellates Msyterio, who is a damn fine example of a fast-paced guy who is not reputed for being either technical or hardcore.

[Schoenauer]

LOOK UP IRONY IN THE DICTIONARY.

NEAUTERED
Maybe you should learn to SPELL. It's "neutered", and do YOU have any idea what that MEANS? Not KNOWING how to spell NEUTERED is a FAILURE.

[Kane Knight]

The funny thing is, he needs a better grasp on ironic, too.

Ironic is not "missing a post while already making another post," and the calling him "special." Too bad the only irony here is his lack of a grasp on irony.

But spelling Neutered wrong? Not really horribly bad. Especially since he is "special."

[D Mac]

RANDOM post

[Corkscrewed]

Not to mention [RVD] can't handle the microphone.
LMAO
Yeah, you really didn't watch ECW did you? His original ECW promos were awesome.

It's called logic. There is no reason why Dudleys wouldn't want to work for the WWE unless it was a money issue. They are wrestlers, WWE is the best wrestling federation, so of course they want to be there so I guess WWE didn't give them the money they deserved. Anything else is NOT LOGICAL.
So how come you don't accept this same LOGIC whenever it's used to criticize your heroes, Rey Mysterio Jr and John Cena? How come you didn't accept this same LOGIC when it was used to argue why the WWE Cruiserweights were being limited?

Your excuses are valid on their own, but you use them inconsistently--only when they help you. When they hurt you, you turn to another excuse.

Oh, and CAPS used for EMPHASIS lose their EFFECT when you use them every OTHER sentence. Eventually, you just SOUND like you're and OLD man YELLING at the kids to get off his YARD.

So try to gain a grasp of proper English writing technique and effect before you go off pretending to be better than us by whining about name calling and similar petty complaints.

[Savio]

Well, i mean. Did you really expect it to be the old ECW? Everyone expected Vince to take control of it in a coupe months, but he did it in a couple weeks. WWECW, not ECW my friend.weeks?

[Kane Knight]

LMAO
Yeah, you really didn't watch ECW did you? His original ECW promos were awesome.

Yeah, it's extremely funny watching someone who demonstrates no knowledge of ECW bashing the new ECW for not being like the old ECW.

[.44 Magdalene]

Am I incorrect in pointing out it took Vermaat at least 15 hours to formulate that list of matches?

[Kane Knight]

I don't know. That would require me to go back and look for the post where he replied, and then figure out how long it took from the original question. The latter part is easy, the former would be PAINFUL.

[Cactus Sid]

5. Ian Rotten Vs. Axl Rotten (Dethmatch)

Usually I respect the opinions of people, but every match between those 2 was utter shit.

[The Mackem]

Man this kid is awesome. I enjoy reading his posts out loud with every capitalised word spoken with an angry tone.

[Vermaat]

But the old ECW didn't, even though they ran concurrent with promotions that did. You said that people who bad CZW shoulddn't call themselves ECW fans (via your logic that if people call CZW garbage they call hardcore garbage).

There's like, 15 different ways you contradict yourself with this little statement.

I don't see a contradiction. ProTip: Just because you want there to be a contradiction, doesn't mean there will be.

The old ECW did not but they wouldn't put it out of the picture. The new ECW would NEVER do it.

For every Sabu, there was an RVD (yeah, you could call him "hardcore", but he's as much about high flying and aerial attacks as anything else). For every Tommy Dreamer, there was a Dean Malenko. For every Balls Mahoney, there was a Lance Storm. For every Axl Rotten, there was a Steve Corino.


Like I said, they had techies but they were not the focus of the show. It was EXTREME that was the focus and extreme and dean malenko don't mix lol

Some of the greatest non-hardcore wrestlers came out of ECW, including not just technical wrestlers, but high-fliers. I mean, Vermie himself fellates Msyterio, who is a damn fine example of a fast-paced guy who is not reputed for being either technical or hardcore.

Mysterio is the total package. Like you said, he's a high flier, he doesnt need to be hardcore or techinical. I don't see any point in mentioning rey, I didn't deny that ECW had some great high fliers and total packages like Rey Mysterio.

Maybe you should learn to SPELL. It's "neutered", and do YOU have any idea what that MEANS? Not KNOWING how to spell NEUTERED is a FAILURE.

Oh wow a spelling error, yeah that makes my point false because I mispelled a word. This isn't a spelling contest. This is the internet.

The funny thing is, he needs a better grasp on ironic, too.

Ironic is not "missing a post while already making another post," and the calling him "special." Too bad the only irony here is his lack of a grasp on irony.


It was ironic because you're saying others are stupid when you are doing somehing extremely stupid.

Yeah, you really didn't watch ECW did you? His original ECW promos were awesome.

I don't see anything amazing in his promos. Maybe its a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION but I think he's boring on the mic especially compared to Cena.

So how come you don't accept this same LOGIC whenever it's used to criticize your heroes, Rey Mysterio Jr and John Cena? How come you didn't accept this same LOGIC when it was used to argue why the WWE Cruiserweights were being limited?


You really wanna go back to that argument? You guys had no point. There is a clear point in my Dudley argument. They can not possibly have any other reason for not joining ECW, just not enough money because they were perfectly happy in WWE for years.

Oh, and CAPS used for EMPHASIS lose their EFFECT when you use them every OTHER sentence. Eventually, you just SOUND like you're and OLD man YELLING at the kids to get off his YARD.


I don't do this, I only use caps to emphasize points. Just because you say something false about me doesn't make it true, sorry

So try to gain a grasp of proper English writing technique and effect before you go off pretending to be better than us by whining about name calling and similar petty complaints.

I am obviously more mature then anyone resorting to name calling and spamming threads

Usually I respect the opinions of people, but every match between those 2 was utter shit.

Well maybe hardcore isn't your style then because it was an ace hardcore match.

You people really have trouble with READING COMPREHENSION. Maybe you guys should reread posts a couple of times befor responding to them. All I have said about the new ECW is true and it is clear that it is not hardcore anymore. Watch a CZW watch and watch a new ECW match you will see who is the real hardcore and who is the real innovator. Now watch old ECW and the new ECW and you will see a difference just as big. You people think my point is "ECW shouldn't have technical wrestlers because it never did" :roll: NO that is not my point and I never said that. Try to understand the point I am making before you make yourselves look any more foolish.

[Kane Knight]

I don't see a contradiction. ProTip: Just because you want there to be a contradiction, doesn't mean there will be.
You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it. Just because you choose to ignore it, claim it doesn't exist, does not make it so.

The old ECW did not but they wouldn't put it out of the picture. The new ECW would NEVER do it.
They did put it out of the picture by not doing it.

Your statements require you to ignore Paul Heyman and instead defer to your definition of what ECW was about. Sorry, but I think Heyman may know a little more than you on the matter at hand.

Like I said, they had techies but they were not the focus of the show. It was EXTREME that was the focus and extreme and dean malenko don't mix lol
Paul Heyman disagrees with you.

It was ironic because you're saying others are stupid when you are doing somehing extremely stupid.
Actually, I was challenging your mental capacity. However, what you accuse me of being "stupid" for is nothing more than a simple, commonplace event. You see, and I wouldn't need to explain this to someone who wasn't "special," In the process of replying, other people can reply too. This is what happened. It's unrealistic to expect this to never happen, and flat out retarded to try and make a big case out of it. "OH LOL I HIT REPLY BEFORE HE DID HES A MORON."

Again, just because you want something to work that way does not mean that it does.

You really wanna go back to that argument? You guys had no point. There is a clear point in my Dudley argument. They can not possibly have any other reason for not joining ECW, just not enough money because they were perfectly happy in WWE for years.
Which is why they took a pay cut to go to TNA, right? TNA doesn't pay the kind of cash they would have gotten regardless. In other words, your argument just died.

Watch a CZW watch and watch a new ECW match you will see who is the real hardcore and who is the real innovator.
How are they innovators? They're doing the same stuff Tards were doing back when Matt and Jeff debuted, back when Austin was still Stunning Steve, and back when Mick Foley was still an unknown. Again, you refer to them in terms of innovation, when their "hardcore" is the same backyard garbage that's had over 15 years of fame.

You want to know who the real innovators are? It's neither.

You people think my point is "ECW shouldn't have technical wrestlers because it never did" :roll: NO that is not my point and I never said that.

That's not what people are saying, or what they're claiming you're saying. If you're going to question comprehension, don't be such a hypocrite.

[Schoenauer]

What if after all this is over, and Vermaat is threatened with a ban... he comes out saying "Sorry, but that's been my little 8 year old brother posting under my account."

[Vermaat]

You seem to be the only one who doesn't see it. Just because you choose to ignore it, claim it doesn't exist, does not make it so.

The reason I'm not seeing it is because it's not there. It's just empty rambling from you, you haven't pointed out a real contradiction.

They did put it out of the picture by not doing it.

Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean its "out of the picture". ECW did some more violent things, they just haven't got to it yet. If ECW was still around, you bet they would have had at least one such match.

Paul Heyman disagrees with you.
And where did he say that ECW was not extreme?

The E in ECW disagrees with you. Extreme is in the name of ECW. EXTREME is E C W.

Actually, I was challenging your mental capacity. However, what you accuse me of being "stupid" for is nothing more than a simple, commonplace event. You see, and I wouldn't need to explain this to someone who wasn't "special," In the process of replying, other people can reply too. This is what happened. It's unrealistic to expect this to never happen, and flat out retarded to try and make a big case out of it. "OH LOL I HIT REPLY BEFORE HE DID HES A MORON."

Again, just because you want something to work that way does not mean that it does.


UH HUH, especially after I point out to you that I adressed it, and YOU STILL don't see it. Sure thing. It's not my fault you don't know the refresh button.

Which is why they took a pay cut to go to TNA, right? TNA doesn't pay the kind of cash they would have gotten regardless. In other words, your argument just died.


Yes, TNA doesn't pay like WWE. Valid point. HOWEVER, this doesn't negate my point. Let me explain what happened. The Dudleys, knowing how extremely valuable they are, wanted a higher pay, WWE said no, so they left ON PRINCIPLE because they hoped that this will show WWE what a mistake they made and the WWE will give them the money they deserve. WWE didn't see their mistake, but if they saw it now and offered them an enormous contract, they'd take it. I mean, look at test, he said he doesnt like WWE, yet WWE offered him a big enough contract and he's back.

How are they innovators? They're doing the same stuff Tards were doing back when Matt and Jeff debuted, back when Austin was still Stunning Steve, and back when Mick Foley was still an unknown. Again, you refer to them in terms of innovation, when their "hardcore" is the same backyard garbage that's had over 15 years of fame.

They are innovators because they are putting these matches when most are not. Innovation is not just about being first, it's also about pushing something that others don't. CZW isn't afraid of doing REAL hardcore matches and their wrestlers aren't afraid either. They are HARDCORE, not "fake" Hardcore like the new ECW.

That's not what people are saying, or what they're claiming you're saying. If you're going to question comprehension, don't be such a hypocrite.

If it's not, why is everyone constantly flooding me with names of technical wrestlers in ECW?

[Kane Knight]

The reason I'm not seeing it is because it's not there. It's just empty rambling from you, you haven't pointed out a real contradiction.

That's the "just because you say it doesn't exist" part.

See, several people have tried to explain it to you. You can't even just pin it on me.

Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean its "out of the picture". ECW did some more violent things, they just haven't got to it yet. If ECW was still around, you bet they would have had at least one such match.

It was pretty clear if you watched ECW that this isn't the case. You apparently want to pretend you watched it, but I'd say that wasn't the case.

And where did he say that ECW was not extreme?

The E in ECW disagrees with you. Extreme is in the name of ECW. EXTREME is E C W.

Nice try at changing the language. You're trying to use extreme instead of hardcore. However, since HEyman has, multiple times, pointed the focus was on the talent, not the extreme...

UH HUH, especially after I point out to you that I adressed it, and YOU STILL don't see it. Sure thing. It's not my fault you don't know the refresh button.

No. Isee what you're TRYING to say. It just doesn't work that way. Again, not my fault you cannot comprehend the nature of the internet.

Yes, TNA doesn't pay like WWE. Valid point. HOWEVER, this doesn't negate my point.

It makes your point logically incongruous.

Well, it was in the first place, this just highlights the elephant in the room.

They are innovators because they are putting these matches when most are not. Innovation is not just about being first, it's also about pushing something that others don't. CZW isn't afraid of doing REAL hardcore matches and their wrestlers aren't afraid either. They are HARDCORE, not "fake" Hardcore like the new ECW.

Actually, innovation is about developing something new.

Too bad you fail at the English language.

If it's not, why is everyone constantly flooding me with names of technical wrestlers in ECW?

Uhhhh...Because you equated ECW with CZW? Insisted that the show was about hardcore? About extreme? That you can't call yourself an ECW fan if you weren't a fan of hardcore? And they're demonstrating that these numerous statements are false by indicating otherwise?

It's called LOGIC. If you can't comprehend that this is simply a counter to many of your bullshit statements about what ECW was, then you have no right to preach to people about their thought process.

[Vermaat]

That's the "just because you say it doesn't exist" part.


You FAILED to point out a contradictions. You just thought you did, you have no point here.There was not a contradiction, just your lack of comprehension.

It was pretty clear if you watched ECW that this isn't the case. You apparently want to pretend you watched it, but I'd say that wasn't the case.


I'm not pretending, I watched some of it. Not saying I watched it hardcore, how could you watch anything hardcore besides WWE in the attitude era and call yourself a wrestling fan, I dont know. But I caught some of it, some of the best stuff and I ECW built its name on hardcore.

Nice try at changing the language. You're trying to use extreme instead of hardcore. However, since HEyman has, multiple times, pointed the focus was on the talent, not the extreme...


Extreme is hardcore. Hardcore is Extreme. The focus was on the talent and a good part of the talent was EXTREME. Thus the focus was on how extreme the talent is. No one called it Technical Championship Wrestling, it was EXTREME championship wrestling. No one stressed how many moves Dean malenko knew, but they did stress the SUICIDAL GENOCIDAL Sabu...HARDCORE EXTREME things.

No. Isee what you're TRYING to say. It just doesn't work that way. Again, not my fault you cannot comprehend the nature of the internet.



The nature of the internet? Now you're just saying nonsense. You missed a point I made because you don't know how to refresh a page. Okay. I POINT THAT OUT TO YOU THE POINT you missed and you refuse to acknowledge it. This is NOT ho discussion works.

It makes your point logically incongruous.



Nice way at ignoring my valid point. Sorry that my point still stands and you have nothing to say. :roll:

Actually, innovation is about developing something new.


And PART of developing something new is promoting it. If you make the lightbulb and don't tell anyone about it, that's not an innovation to society, it's nothing. Part of innovation is PROMOTING it and that's what CZW does by making lightbulb matches a focus of it's company.

Uhhhh...Because you equated ECW with CZW? Insisted that the show was about hardcore? About extreme? That you can't call yourself an ECW fan if you weren't a fan of hardcore? And they're demonstrating that these numerous statements are false by indicating otherwise?

Easy comparision. Both are hardcore and extreme.

It's called LOGIC. If you can't comprehend that this is simply a counter to many of your bullshit statements about what ECW was, then you have no right to preach to people about their thought process.

You're the one LACKING logic because you can't understand that a company with EXTREME in it's NAME is going to be about EXTREME.

[Just John]

damn, I just wanna stab you in the neck with a pencil.

[Schoenauer]

If the Dudley BOYZ were concerned about MONEY, then why would they go to TNA for less money than what they WANTED from WWE? Your LOGIC is a FAILURE.

[Kane Knight]

If the Dudley BOYZ were concerned about MONEY, then why would they go to TNA for less money than what they WANTED from WWE? Your LOGIC is a FAILURE.

I DIDN't see THAT on WWE.COM! UNACCEPTABLE!

[Dorkchop]

Yes, TNA doesn't pay like WWE. Valid point. HOWEVER, this doesn't negate my point. Let me explain what happened. The Dudleys, knowing how extremely valuable they are, wanted a higher pay, WWE said no, so they left ON PRINCIPLE because they hoped that this will show WWE what a mistake they made and the WWE will give them the money they deserve. WWE didn't see their mistake, but if they saw it now and offered them an enormous contract, they'd take it. I mean, look at test, he said he doesnt like WWE, yet WWE offered him a big enough contract and he's back.

Didn't the WWE just not use the Dudleys on tv for about a year, used them for the original One Night Stand, then release them shortly after? I'm not 100% positive on this, but I'm pretty sure I know more about than you know. I'm sure they talked with the WWE shortly after their release about new contracts, but basically told the WWE to screw themselves.

Money isn't always everything in wrestling. Look at Christian. He's making way less money than he was in the WWE. He made that choice on his own. He put aside money, and decided on being happy, and having more fun wrestling.

I know a lot of guys are in it for the money (Goldberg, Sabu, others), but there are guys out there who have pride and just care about wrestling (see Lance Storm).

[Dorkchop]

All true, but Kurt Angle is OLD today. He is BROKEN DOWN. HE CANNOT handle hardcore anymore. I like angle, but it's time to retire, not go to ECW

Who the hell are you to tell someone to retire? Yeah, sure, he's somewhat broken down, but a broken down Kurt Angle is still putting on better matches than probably everyone else in any company right now (debatable, but Angle is God). And do you know why he's "BROKEN DOWN"? It's because he busts his ass every single night he's in that ring.

Angle can handle whatever the hell you throw at him. When was the last time wrestling fans said he had a bad match?

And I believe Angle is only 38. How is that old? He's roughly the same age as: Triple H, RVD, Benoit, Kane, and more.

[James Steele]

Vermaat, SHUT the FUCK UP!

[Goulet]

They are innovators because they are putting these matches when most are not. Innovation is not just about being first, it's also about pushing something that others don't. CZW isn't afraid of doing REAL hardcore matches and their wrestlers aren't afraid either. They are HARDCORE, not "fake" Hardcore like the new ECW.

Noun
innovation (plural innovations)

1. The act of innovating; the introduction of something new, in customs, rites, etc.

Ban this goof!

[hb2k]

I wondered what happened to Sadistic. Welcome back man.





























CZW still sucks though.

[Kane Knight]

Noun
innovation (plural innovations)

1. The act of innovating; the introduction of something new, in customs, rites, etc.

Ban this goof!

He clearly didn't mean that, he was simply using innovation to mean...Ummm...CONTEXT, people! :roll:

[Skippord]

Vermaat for your own good

SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Xero]

I wondered what happened to Sadistic. Welcome back man.





























CZW still sucks though.
Besides saying that CZW was #3 in the country, Sadistic was never this delusional.

[Kane Knight]

Nor a Cena mark.

[Xero]

Being a Cena mark is a whole different level of delusion.

[Mikey]

I must agree with CZW being garbage wrestling. It is down there along side XPW :nono:

[Corkscrewed]

Maybe its a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION but I think he's boring on the mic especially compared to Cena.

Alright. We'll chalk it up to difference of opinion.

Difference of opinion.


*snickers*



Difference of opinion.

:shifty:




Hey Vermaat, just because you refuse to accept it when other people prove you false doesn't mean you're not wrong.

Just because you refuse to consider other people's points doesn't mean they're not making sense.

Just because you refuse to talk about past topics doesn't mean you're still contradicting your statements.

And just because you're simply a fan of more violent matches doesn't mean you can pretend to hide behind this pretense of being a master of wrestling knowledge. If you love watching people beat the hell out of each other in barbarian ways, just admit it. No one's going to judge you unless you start imposing your views on others as though you're better than them.

On a side note, I really think you should become a missionary and go to the Middle East. I think you can persuade a lot of people to stop hating Westerners. :)

[Volare]

Being a Cena mark is a whole different level of delusion.


"Which brings me to my next point, don't smoke crack." :yes:

[Shadow]

Vermaat...for the love of the Goddess herself...GIVE IT THE FUCK UP!

You will never convince us that your points are valid and worth while if you continue to debate in the style of "IF I PUT MY FINGERS IN MY EARS AND GO LA LA LA THEY'LL LISTEN TO ME!" It just won't happen bud.

Oh for the love of god...YOU GET SIGGED!

[Blitz]

He's been banned

hallelujah!

[Skippord]

AWWWWWWW

[Shadow]

Just when it was getting good to.

[Volare]

talk about a kick in the balls

[Londoner]

He's been banned

hallelujah!

I wanted this thread to get atleast 12 pages before that happened.

Oh well he's banned so fuck it, I couldn't careless really. He deserved it.

[Pepsi Man]

Like I said, they had techies but they were not the focus of the show. It was EXTREME that was the focus and extreme and dean malenko don't mix lol
Yet Dean Malenko was a part of ECW. Your argument is a FAILURE! It's a shame, too, because this thread was really MAKE OR BREAK as far as your reputation here goes. Pity.

[Kane Knight]

I know he's banned, but I was planning on answering this later, and dammit, I'm gonna have me some fun.

You FAILED to point out a contradictions. You just thought you did, you have no point here.There was not a contradiction, just your lack of comprehension.

Actually, I pointed out the same contradiction several other people did. You might want to consider your comprehension for once.

I'm not pretending, I watched some of it. Not saying I watched it hardcore, how could you watch anything hardcore besides WWE in the attitude era and call yourself a wrestling fan, I dont know. But I caught some of it, some of the best stuff and I ECW built its name on hardcore.

Heyman disagrees with you. He's said it not only multiple times, but on your own precious WWE product.

Extreme is hardcore. Hardcore is Extreme. The focus was on the talent and a good part of the talent was EXTREME. Thus the focus was on how extreme the talent is. No one called it Technical Championship Wrestling, it was EXTREME championship wrestling. No one stressed how many moves Dean malenko knew, but they did stress the SUICIDAL GENOCIDAL Sabu...HARDCORE EXTREME things.

That's not the only thing they stressed though, and you'd know that if you watched it. They stressed him as homosexual, genuflectual, and Sodomistical because that was his style, not the company's.

Funny how that works.

The nature of the internet? Now you're just saying nonsense. You missed a point I made because you don't know how to refresh a page. Okay. I POINT THAT OUT TO YOU THE POINT you missed and you refuse to acknowledge it. This is NOT ho discussion works.

I know how to refresh a page, it's just retarded to expect people to keep hitting refresh because someone might have responded in the intermediate time.

There's a proof in physics that addresses something similar, and I'll sum it up by saying: By your logic, if a human being has a running start, a jet plane can never catch him.

Nice way at ignoring my valid point. Sorry that my point still stands and you have nothing to say. :roll:

Your point doesn't stand, like I said, it was logically incongruous. The minute you admitted the validity of my point, your argument died.

And PART of developing something new is promoting it. If you make the lightbulb and don't tell anyone about it, that's not an innovation to society, it's nothing. Part of innovation is PROMOTING it and that's what CZW does by making lightbulb matches a focus of it's company.

No, promoting something by itself is not innovation. It was already developed by stupid teenagers, and made popular by backyard wrestling feds across the country. The promotion of this did not make it an innovation.

Easy comparision. Both are hardcore and extreme.

Heyman disagrees with you. He founded one of the companies. Ergo, you are wrong, he is right.

You're the one LACKING logic because you can't understand that a company with EXTREME in it's NAME is going to be about EXTREME.

Except, again, Heyman disagrees with you. You may call my logic illogical, but it's as simple as this:

Paul Heyman, more than anyone, knows what ECW was about. If he says what it was about, I am in no place to disagree with him.

I think also, you fail to comprehend (That means understand) just how much EXTREEEEEEEEEME was used in the 90s, even for products that didn't involve hardcore. I mean, there were extreme televisions shows (Extreme Ghosbusters--OMG THEY R HARDCORE!!!!!!), There were extreme comics (as in comedians), there were extreme cooking shows, everything on MTV was extreme, because extreme was a buzz word for the 90s, whether you were actually extreme or not.

Of course, Heyman pushed a lot of things to the limits, which is "extreme" in and of itself, without even getting into this bullshit of "hardcore." Matt and Jeff were team Extreme before they did anything that could be considered hardcore, there, I used it in relation to wrestling. Extreme is used to describe many top rope moves. OMG ITZ HARDCORE! No. Sorry, try again.

And if you want to complain about someone's logic, complain about Paul E's. Mine is so simple even you (Or any other child) should be able to understand it: Paul knows better than you, therefore, I put more stock in his definition of ECW than yours.

There. When he gets unbanned by an admin, he has something to read.

[Kane Knight]

Yet Dean Malenko was a part of ECW. Your argument is a FAILURE! It's a shame, too, because this thread was really MAKE OR BREAK as far as your reputation here goes. Pity.

But Dean was not extreme and he was not the focus so therefore I am right and you are wrong! HAHA!

[The MAC]

who in the fuck is the vermaat guy? He causes so much heat on himself that X-Pac should hang out with him?.

Question : how do the followers of the original ECW find this new WWE version of it? I ask cause if the faithful are happy-then the rest shouldn't bitch about anything.

[D Mac]

LOL How can one be so serious about wrestling anyways. It's ENTERTAINMENT for christ sakes.

[Kane Knight]

How much of a follower did you have to be? I'm not a diehard faithful who saw every episode...In fact, we didn't get TNN for a while while ECW was on. I was introduced by a friend, watched eps when I could, and then regularly when TNN came my way, but I never went to a show or bought a PPV.

To answer your question, I'm disappointed, but not because it's not just like the old ECW. I knew it wouldn't be, even with Paul booking it (and I knew he wouldn't). But I was expecting better than just Heat live with some oldschool ECW wrestlers. The way they turn ECW rules on and off is stupid, and makes it more like a gimmick Stevie Richards or the late Crash Holly would have. I'm not saying every match should end in barbed wire, but I get enough DQs on my regular injection of WWE crap that I don't need to see another show where the Hosses dominate, matches end in dusty finishes, and the movesets are watered down to the point of being nonexistant.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

ex·treme http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fextreme) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifk-strhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifmhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif)
adj.
Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: <CITE>the extreme edge of the field.</CITE>
Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: <CITE>extreme pleasure; extreme pain.</CITE>
Extending far beyond the norm: <CITE>an extreme conservative.</CITE> See Synonyms at excessive (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=excessive).
Of the greatest severity; drastic: <CITE>took extreme measures to conserve fuel.</CITE>
Sports.<LI type=a>Very dangerous or difficult: <CITE>extreme rafting.</CITE>
Participating or tending to participate in a very dangerous or difficult sport: <CITE>an extreme skier.</CITE>
Archaic. Final; last.ECW was NOT about being hardcore. It was about pushing the limits, and doing something DIFFERENT then what was being done at the time. It was trying to do something different than what sports entertainment was doing at the time. Yes, there were some violent matches, but at the same time, they did something different by putting lucha libre on, technical guys like Benoit on, people like Tajiri, Super Crazy, etc, etc.

ECW was not about pure violence, it was about.... innovation.

CZW is about violence.

Am I bashing CZW... no.

But to compare CZW to the original ECW is obscene, mainly because they were two totally different companies with two totally different styles and two totally different ideals.


So now then... please NEVER compare ECW to CZW again in that way. If anything, ECW spawned two extremely different companies... CZW and ROH. If you make CZW less violent, ROH less technical and King's Roadish, and put them together, you'd have something more similiar to the original ECW.

[Kane Knight]

By the way, I think the hardcore ECW fans were speaking when they chanted things like "You suck dick."

[owenbrown]

How much of a follower did you have to be? I'm not a diehard faithful who saw every episode...In fact, we didn't get TNN for a while while ECW was on. I was introduced by a friend, watched eps when I could, and then regularly when TNN came my way, but I never went to a show or bought a PPV.

To answer your question, I'm disappointed, but not because it's not just like the old ECW. I knew it wouldn't be, even with Paul booking it (and I knew he wouldn't). But I was expecting better than just Heat live with some oldschool ECW wrestlers. The way they turn ECW rules on and off is stupid, and makes it more like a gimmick Stevie Richards or the late Crash Holly would have. I'm not saying every match should end in barbed wire, but I get enough DQs on my regular injection of WWE crap that I don't need to see another show where the Hosses dominate, matches end in dusty finishes, and the movesets are watered down to the point of being nonexistant.

It just proves the point that if your name is not "McMahon" then you have no say whatsoever in the creative process in their shows. :shifty:

[Xero]

It just proves the point that if your name is not "McMahon" then you have no say whatsoever in the creative process in their shows. :shifty:
Unless, of course, you agree with everything Vince says.

Which is essentially doing nothing anyway.

[Kane Knight]

Unless, of course, you agree with everything Vince says.

Which is essentially fiddling while Rome burns.

[Da Cool Guy]

You know, this Vermaat guy makes a lot of good points. This man knows how to think for himself, AND he knows his shit, he doesn't bullshit it. I am proud to call myself a Chain Gang member when people like him are around.

[Blitz]

And suddenly you're posting (relatively) coherently.

[Pepsi Man]

You know, this Vermaat guy makes a lot of good points. This man knows how to think for himself, AND he knows his shit, he doesn't bullshit it. I am proud to call myself a Chain Gang member when people like him are around.
So is this Verm?

[Skippord]

Vermin is that you

[Doc Brown]

just as a side note, after failing to read the final...oh i don't know, 2 pages of this thread.

I would just like, for research purposes, to give a list of my favourite 5 ECW matches of "old". Just for reference, and without flaming poor Vermaat.

Spattering of hardcore was ok during matches, but for the most part, the actual wrestling was terrific.

Taz v Tajiri for the ( I belive it was for the heavyweight title. - Heatwave 98

Reasoning, the promos leading up to the match had given the idea that this was actually going to be a one sided blood bath, and it's the only time i can remember in my time of watching ECW, the camera men were told to pull the camera away when taz had the Tazmission locked in with barbwire.

Nova v Little Guido - November to remember 99

No reason nesscecary, Anything nova touched was fucking gold.


Masato Tanaka v Mike Awesome - N2R 99

Sure tables were involved, but it was the last time i remember, personally not knowing just when the fall was going to take place, great back and forth pace, huge bumps, but nothing overly ridiculous.

Jerry Lynn v RVD Part 1

Just exceptional, back and forth action, RVD's toughest opponent in ECW, much played like The "cena" of the time, Lynn ,would just inevitably come up short. But i do believe Lynn was the first guy to Pin Van Dam in singles competition since he won the Television championship. After 15 or however many months it was dragged on for.

Dean Malenko v Eddy ECW hardcore TV, Early-mid 95.

Classic matches, if my memory serves, 4 consecutive 30 minute time limit draws.

technicaly speaking it was the best wrestling to come out of the Early Days of ECW.

[Kane Knight]

And suddenly you're posting (relatively) coherently.

Behold, the miracle of trolling.

[Pinnacle Charisma]

You know, this Vermaat guy makes a lot of good points. This man knows how to think for himself, AND he knows his shit, he doesn't bullshit it. I am proud to call myself a Chain Gang member when people like him are around.


ROFL

[thecc]

My head hurts.

P.s. Why is CZW being brought up? Especially considering they dont even do the garbage stuff anymore except once a year.

[AJHayes]

You FAILED to point out a contradictions. You just thought you did, you have no point here.There was not a contradiction, just your lack of comprehension.



I'm not pretending, I watched some of it. Not saying I watched it hardcore, how could you watch anything hardcore besides WWE in the attitude era and call yourself a wrestling fan, I dont know. But I caught some of it, some of the best stuff and I ECW built its name on hardcore.



Extreme is hardcore. Hardcore is Extreme. The focus was on the talent and a good part of the talent was EXTREME. Thus the focus was on how extreme the talent is. No one called it Technical Championship Wrestling, it was EXTREME championship wrestling. No one stressed how many moves Dean malenko knew, but they did stress the SUICIDAL GENOCIDAL Sabu...HARDCORE EXTREME things.



The nature of the internet? Now you're just saying nonsense. You missed a point I made because you don't know how to refresh a page. Okay. I POINT THAT OUT TO YOU THE POINT you missed and you refuse to acknowledge it. This is NOT ho discussion works.



Nice way at ignoring my valid point. Sorry that my point still stands and you have nothing to say. :roll:



And PART of developing something new is promoting it. If you make the lightbulb and don't tell anyone about it, that's not an innovation to society, it's nothing. Part of innovation is PROMOTING it and that's what CZW does by making lightbulb matches a focus of it's company.



Easy comparision. Both are hardcore and extreme.



You're the one LACKING logic because you can't understand that a company with EXTREME in it's NAME is going to be about EXTREME.

Am I the only one who imagined his voice being really whiny during this one?

[Kane Knight]

My head hurts.

P.s. Why is CZW being brought up? Especially considering they dont even do the garbage stuff anymore except once a year.

Nobody had the heart to tell him he knew less about CZW than ECW?

[Kane Knight]

Am I the only one who imagined his voice being really whiny during this one?

I imagined it just being very angry.

[thecc]

Nobody had the heart to tell him he knew less about CZW than ECW?Well.... When I did take my trip to a czw event in april, I did see a child in a John Cena shirt.

:shifty:

[Kane Knight]

So he HAS seens a show.

[Kane Knight]

Mostly, people just addressed the hardcore because Vermaat was making statements about hardcore like CZW. Can't blame people for fixating on the garbage, since that's really what he's talking about.

[Arnold HamNegger]

RVD vs. Sabu vs. Angle in a Ladder Match is a FAILURE.

[Just John]

You know, this Vermaat guy makes a lot of good points. This man knows how to think for himself, AND he knows his shit, he doesn't bullshit it. I am proud to call myself a Chain Gang member when people like him are around.

IP check please.


CZW is extreme, no doubt, but that doesnt make it good, in fact it makes it complete shit, even ECW was remotley entertaining.

[D Mac]

This thread is still open? That's UNACCEPTABLE.

[Just John]

Its more than UNACCEPTABLE, its a FAILURE

[Arnold HamNegger]

I think a thread coming back from the dead is INNOVATIVE.



**BONG**

[Kane Knight]

I WILL NOT DIE!

ROOST IN PENSEIVES! )))GONG(((

[AJHayes]

Kane Knight just MADE this thread.

[Jaton]

Penseives. HAHAH owned.

[Kane Knight]

Kane Knight? You mean I didn't sign in as Takerstalker?

[Volare]

the true identity has been revealed HA HA!

[Kalyx triaD]

LOL

...Vermaatics.

He's making good points, btw. And no one uses CAPS like the Vermaatical One.

Word Life.

[Kane Knight]

Dunnn...Dunnnn...Dunnnn...

So...You're a bad apple...

World life! This is basic Vermaanomics...*scratch scratch*basic Vermaanomics...I'm irrational and I hope John'll see me

Whether swallowed or spitting
I'm never gonna listen
Jungle fever got me John in a missionary position
Ass-Kissing anthem, Up in me like a tampon
I keep it real like Jim Henson, a muppet for McMahon, son...

[D Mac]

http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/4/0/2/9/509204_356x237.jpg

[Kane Knight]

Ice, Ice...Poochy?