Pro Wrestling: Where Do We Go From Here?

[Destor]

The current state of pro-wrestling is dire in a lot of ways. And something has to happen if the mainstream value of pro-wrestling is to increase, a drastic change has been the case in the past.

To understand where I feel we are going, we need to see where we came from. Wrestling cycles through popular culture just like any other social trend. This process is coupled to the aging and general experiences of ourdemographic of males in particular.

This is fairly common knowledge amongst us. Back in the day it was an old mans sport. Slow. A Body Slam was the end of the match. It became more grand as time went on. More high impact moves and Drama.

But then in the 70s things started to change to more flamboyant characters. All the way until the story-telling in wrestling (WWF especially) resembled that in a classic comic book (80s,) filled with epic battles between super heros. Hulk Hogan's catch phrase explains this era in a nutshell: "exercise, say your prayers, and eat your vitamins." They could easily relate.

The older they became, the less this type of product appealed to them and the popularity of wrestling suffered accordingly. They wanted something more obscene, something that "responsible" parents wouldn't want kids to watch. This came in the form of ECW-style hardcore wrestling and more importantly, storylines about defiance of authority, e.g. NWO, DX, Steve Austin. Those young children, the former Hulkamaniacs, were joining the workforce and could relate. Especially to the weekly deprecation of Vince McMahon.

We can very much relate to the theme of rebellion from this era, but no longer in the form of pro wrestling. Why is this the case? Well, this is kind of an open-ended question. All I know is that whenever I re-watch a film I never fully get the same cathartic experience as the first time. I may have enjoyed watching ECW and following the DX storyline back in the day, but any attempt to recreate these experiences in the same way hasn't really panned out too well.

Something has to change. MMA... I think the natural progression of the wrestling cycle is already under way. MMA will soon be integrating more fully into pro wrestling for the next logical evolution of the sport. Paul Heyman is trying that with the "new" ECW, and Eric Bischoff has pitched it a few times, too. I think we are seeing the next step, realism from our soap opera. A reality base for our fake violence. Could the next boom be caused by this?

Look at the ECW product. They were the precursor to the attitude of the Attitude era. Now look at the ROH American strong style, could this be the same thing but in its infantile stages? History likes to repeat itself.

[Londoner]

If wrestling is going to be popular again then what needs to happen for me is:

1) Get proper writers who actually know about wrestling.

2) Squash matches need to go, sick of them. The more of them they're(and there are a lot these days) the weaker the company/wrestling in general looks. It's a highly uncreative way of trying to get someone over, it doesn't work but they still do it.

3) Rosters need to be brought back together. Before it seemed like there was and endless amount of possible matches/storylines, now those are very restricted. This would also eliminate the need for squash matches. Sure, some would get 'lost in the shuffle', but that's life.

4) Stables. As mentioned in your post, stables were a big part of wrestling and brought the feeling of attitude to wrestling imo. DX/NWO really helped the product overall, we need some proper writers to come up with this stuff again. Now I don't mean that they should just copy what those stables did, but something similar. Something that would bring the attitude feel back to wrestling. Look at DX at the moment, even though it doesn't feel the same as before it already feels like Raw has a bit of the attitude feel back, but there's still a long way to go.

Those 4 things i've mentioned are where we should go from here, but the sad fact is they're not going to happen anytime soon. As a result i'm losing my interest in wrestling. ECW isn't doing enough to entertain me, Smackdown sucks and the only thing interesting to me on Raw is the DX/Mcmahons/Foley&Flair feuds. I think my time of being a wrestling fan has ALMOST come to an end.


Btw Destor I don't believe you wrote that, did you forget to put the link in your post?

[Rammsteinmad]

TL your post is more about "how to make WWE good again". I think Destor's post is more about "how can wrestling be accepted in the mainstream again". And not just WWE, but other wrestling.

I think it'll be really hard to get wrestling accepted again. After the boom from 1999/2000, I think most people now just assume that wrestling was cool then, but now it's just gay men in lycra playing with each other.

I think a more real style like MMA might give us something fresh in pro wrestling, and it seems to be working pretty well for ROH. But let's face it, MMA and UFC etc are far from being the most popular thing in the world today, and I doubt being more realistic is suddenly gonna make people sit down and watch.
s

[Pinnacle Charisma]

I dont know if wrestling will ever become popular again as long as its under Vince McMahon. Wrestling needs something new and fresh and Vince is too arrogant to do that. The character and booking of John Cena is preety simmilar to Hulk Hogan circa 80's and society has outgrown that.

Vince is too out of touch with todays youth to create a popular tv show

[Londoner]

TL your post is more about "how to make WWE good again". I think Destor's post is more about "how can wrestling be accepted in the mainstream again". And not just WWE, but other wrestling.

I think it'll be really hard to get wrestling accepted again. After the boom from 1999/2000, I think most people now just assume that wrestling was cool then, but now it's just gay men in lycra playing with each other.

I think a more real style like MMA might give us something fresh in pro wrestling, and it seems to be working pretty well for ROH. But let's face it, MMA and UFC etc are far from being the most popular thing in the world today, and I doubt being more realistic is suddenly gonna make people sit down and watch.
s

I was saying where we should go from here. The simple answer is: Go back to the formula that worked. Not saying it will work straight away, but the way things are going isn't doing wrestling any good.

[Kane Knight]

I think we need to sign Luke Perry and Rob Shneider to WWE contracts.

:lol:

I don't think the way forward is to go back. I think it needs to bring something different to the table. Look at the 80s. Wrestling was rabidly popular, but only for a brief time. Then it went back to being fags in tights. Then the Attitude Era came along. It brought something different to the table, and was successful.

Lo, it's back to fags in tights.

The mainstream wants something different every so often. It doesn't have to be too creative, but it does have to be something that isn't dated. Austin 3:16 is a good example. It brought something new to the table, and made the WWF huge. The Rock was a new twist on an old favorite (The charismatic mouthpiece), DX was new (Albeit crafted from a WCW idea), etc.

In wrestling today, we don't really see new stuff. We see an occasional "new" idea (Hey, let's have God involved in a feud), but they're generally crappy and pushed whether people like it or not.

The number 1 thing we need in this industry is for someone in charge to care about what people like. I don't mean smarks, but if Vince thinks that the shit he's churning out will ever be mainstream without God's intervention, and if TNA thinks they'll ever be anything with their current direction (They can't EVEN get the hardcore fans, so what chance do they have to get the mainstream appeal?), they're dumber than they look.

So I'd boil this down to a new direction. I vote reality show. :shifty:

[Rammsteinmad]

They failed at that too.

[Destor]

Btw Destor I don't believe you wrote that, did you forget to put the link in your post?I typed it up for the colums forum a while back. All me though.

[Destor]

But the point was more what would the catalist be to get wrestling back on top. My opnion was MMA style wrestling. I', more interested in what y'all think could get over Pro-wrestling to the mainstream. I aksed y'all where do we go from here, then told you what I thought.

[Chavo Classic]

I for one believe that the integration of some aspects of MMA is the way forward. I believe we're seeing that already with Terkay, who could be an experiment by Vince to see how the crowd reacts.

[Kane Knight]

I don't know about MMA. I mean, I keep thinking people will say "It's been done before."

Mostly because, well, it has. Maybe people have forgotten Shamrock, the sudden hype in tapping out, and so on, but I can't help but think simply adding MMA elements won't work as long as they're still retyarded carnies hawking their shit to "marks."

[Destor]

MMA wasn't on the radar then. Playing that market, now that there is one, could very well be the catalyst. But other things could do it as well. If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear 'em.

[The One]

I was thinking about this the other day, and I came to the realisation that Pro Wrestling wants to die right now. I know that sounds odd and completely anti-wrestling fanish...but it's true. At the very core of wrestling is a traveling carny act. That's all it still is. Shine it up any way you like and it's always going to be big men in small tights pretend to fight each other. That is not the typical foundation of a large international multi-million dollar company. And yet, due to some good timing tricks and a style of sweeping up top talent faster then the Yankees, Vince McMahon was able to do just that. The emergence of a second super power was the real main attraction of the 90s. Forget Austin, nWo, DX, Rocky...no the real story and what was truely interesting was the fued between WCW and WWF.

When WCW died it did two things. One; it allowed WWF to return to the undisputed super power of wrestling...and Two: it killed the idea that McMahon or WWF could be over thrown. The best TV deals, a Billionare pay check, and an never ending means to put WCW over still ultimately couldn't topple WWF. What hope does a less endowed promotion have? In reality, none. WWE is it. When talking about spikes in popularity, or when talking about it becoming main stream, the only thing you need to talk about is WWE...so for the time being forget TNA, RoH, or whatever Japanesse program you all have been jerking off too recently...in the West, WWE is all there is.

But WWE wants to die. WWE needs to die. But WWE can not die. Let me explain each of those ideas...

WWE wants to die...
Who just signed the hottest star. That more then any other element is what determines the success of a wrestling program. The entire reason WWE became big in the first place was McMahon's willingness to sign whatever checks needed to be signed to make sure that he had every big name star...and then Ted Turner stole the idea and spent a little less time raiding smaller promotions and just straight took the big boy's...big boys. What happened? WCW became number one. WWE was lucky enough to go ahead and raid out ECW and take the bottom feeding, yet charismatic, WCW stars. BOOM. Back on top. But that's it. Game over. WWE has raided all the small terratories, and got it's stars taken away, now it has all the big stars again but no one to play big mean bully and take away the shinny toys. The secert key to WWE's success has always been pick up one the blossoming talent elsewhere...WWE is so big and expanded so much (3 different brands) that it literally has most of the blossoming talent already...only they squandered it. WWE as a corperate structure wants to die before it implodes on itself.

WWE needs to die
WWE simply can't become innovative anymore. It's true. They played squeeky clean, that got old, they played shock'n'awe dirty, that got old...in the last 5 years they tried coming up with new stuff, rehasing old stuff, long title reigns, short titles reigns, fresh faces, old icons, heelish faces, faceish heels, and every idea that could pass for a storyline...nothing has been sticking. But the truely sad thing is this...

WWE can not die...
Vince McMahon is the wrestling god. No other promotion can even begin to knock at McMahon's door before he has their top stars on his roster, or their legal team in court. He is simply untouchable. Which means on a whole the wrestling world can not grow. However so many multi million dollar deals are inked, so much is invested into WWE, it simply can not die. Which is why I think McMahon is testing out CDs, Movies, who knows next week you might be spraying on "Legend Killer Collogne". He has so much financial backing from so many different sources, he is locked into a multi channel, multi million dollar contract with NBC Universal, arguably the world's most powerful entertainment company. And everything goes down the tubes the second McMahon even breaths a word about taking RAW away...which I doubt he would ever do anyway.

So you see, WWE is the road block of the next big boom in popularity. I honestly believe that there is no way WWE can cause a second main stream appeal. Good writers, the best talent, the world's best booking team...I think at this point it simply wouldn't matter. Those fans who watch it, will continue to watch it, those who stopped after Austin left, are gone for good. I am not someone who buys into this cycle theory, especially since the entertainment medium has changed the way it has in 20 years. Now this is not to say I don't think WWE might some day have it's own channel, and they may even have a few stars make it on the Tonight Show still...but as far as kids throwing nWo Parties, High School students walking into the locker room with an Austin 3:16 shirt, or people telling others to "Suck It!"...it just isn't meant to happen again. In fairness, I think all television will continue to get lower and lower ratings...simply because there are 5 new channels every other day and sooner or later you spread the audience too thin to even have common pop culture.

In the short term, a jump over to a American Strong/MMA style might work in getting something like a 10 to 15 percent jump...maybe...but even that is only a short term solution. But yeah sure, why not try it, they tried every other short term fix they could think of over the past 5 years...

[Kane Knight]

MMA wasn't on the radar then.

:rofl:

Yup. As long as you weren't paying attention...

[Kane Knight]

My idea, every bit as fresh and original as yours, is to play the reality show market.

[Destor]

:rofl:

Yup. As long as you weren't paying attention...You're an idiot.

[Destor]

My idea, every bit as fresh and original as yours, is to play the reality show market.Did you not see the diva search?

[The One]

Dont' forget Tough Enough...

[Petethegeekstreet]

:rofl:

Yup. As long as you weren't paying attention...
WTF. Thats retarded. UFC didn't get the mainstream attention until about two years ago. When Shamrock was around when it was still illegal in MANY states. No one cared about it. Right now its about to blow up. I agree with the thread starter, give the fact tha MMA is fixing to blow up in a huge way, capitolizing off that fact could be a huge deal.

[Londoner]

My idea, every bit as fresh and original as yours, is to play the reality show market.

So you're a fan of the diva search& tough enough then?

[Kane Knight]

Did you not see the diva search?

That was the point. Your grasp of the obvious is amazing. :y:

[Kane Knight]

So you're a fan of the diva search& tough enough then?

That was the point. Your grasp of the obvious is amazing. :y:

[Kane Knight]

And now, for the mentally retarded:

Back when UFC was starting to get steam, and MMA was on a rather steady rise (Waaaa, I hear them say, it was never this big! Which is besides the point, or at least, not the crux of the matter), WWF specifically, and wrestling promotions, attempted to do exactly what's being suggested. They altered the style of WWF/E specifically in order to cash in on this competitive fighting style. Which never really caught on, except for tapping out.

Going back and making the same mistakes, recapping the whole "Cash in on it now because it's popular" (which it should have done, say, 2-3 years ago) is a bad idea, and likely missing the boat. Like Tough Enough, they will be late adopters and seen as such.

If you're blatantly ignorant, UFC and MMA has just barely made it to the mainstream. All you need to do is ignore all the cross-promotion with other sports, TV time for the atheletes, video games, energy drinks, licensing, and merch that have been released over the past, say, 6 years, and you have a comprehensive argument as to why I am totally baseless in my statement. UFC (and for a brief period, K-1) enjoyed the kind of mainstream crossover appeal the WWF lost near the end of the Attitude era. Sure, the video games sucked, but they sold. So did the DVDs. The shirts. The copy of "teen Dream" with Ken Shamrock on the cover (DISCLAIMER: This last portion may have been falsified). On top of that, it was pretty readily growing by the time WWE tried to go the direction of emulating it.

But hey, why let the actual crossover appeal they were already enjoying at that time change things?

[Londoner]

If you're a fan of the diva search, I can't take you seriously anymore. Tough enough i could let you off with, but the diva search? Hahaha.

[Kane Knight]

I'm obviously a fan of the Diva Search. There was no irony or sarcasm intended in any of the events I suggested a reality show, and therefore it's only safe to assume that my "confirmation" of the Diva Search Concept (Which didn't confirm anything, merely applauded you for having a grasp of the obvious correlation) must also be dead serious.

[mrslackalack]

Truthfully right now the only thing I enjoy looking forward to from WWE is their DVD's.

[mrslackalack]

I remember Stone Cold said we need better promos from the heart and more shoots instead of scripted stuff.

[mike627]

I think we need to sign Luke Perry and Rob Shneider to WWE contracts.

:lol:

I don't think the way forward is to go back. I think it needs to bring something different to the table. Look at the 80s. Wrestling was rabidly popular, but only for a brief time. Then it went back to being fags in tights. Then the Attitude Era came along. It brought something different to the table, and was successful.

Lo, it's back to fags in tights.

The mainstream wants something different every so often. It doesn't have to be too creative, but it does have to be something that isn't dated. Austin 3:16 is a good example. It brought something new to the table, and made the WWF huge. The Rock was a new twist on an old favorite (The charismatic mouthpiece), DX was new (Albeit crafted from a WCW idea), etc.

In wrestling today, we don't really see new stuff. We see an occasional "new" idea (Hey, let's have God involved in a feud), but they're generally crappy and pushed whether people like it or not.

The number 1 thing we need in this industry is for someone in charge to care about what people like. I don't mean smarks, but if Vince thinks that the shit he's churning out will ever be mainstream without God's intervention, and if TNA thinks they'll ever be anything with their current direction (They can't EVEN get the hardcore fans, so what chance do they have to get the mainstream appeal?), they're dumber than they look.

So I'd boil this down to a new direction. I vote reality show. :shifty:What happens when the reality show craze dies out KK?