Does the computer "cheat" in video games?

[D Mac]

Yeah I was playing Madden Franchise mode the other day and I had gotten 2 hard fought victorys in a row on All Star level. In my next game against the Seahawks I had gotten a field goal on my first possession. Then Seattle throws a long bomb into double coverage and he miracuously catches it and runs for a TD. My next possession I could'nt do shit and go 3 and out. On thier first play they run the ball up the middle breaking about 6 tackles for another TD.

I wonder sometimes if it is programmed to fuck you up if you get too good on any game.

What do you think?

[Buzzkill]

Yes, this is called All-Star difficulty.

[D Mac]

It's happened sometimes on lower levels too.

[LoDownM]

*shrug* it's always like 31-3 and the end of the 1st for me, so I never notice. To busy winning and kicking 64 yard field goals. Take that Elam!

[Silent]

Yes, developers deliberately make the AI "cheat" to make a big challenge for the player, because making actual artificial intelligence that learns from you and stuff would be too expensive to do for everyone, and stuff.

[Funky Fly]

Yes, developers deliberately make the AI "cheat" to make a big challenge for the player, because making actual artificial intelligence that learns from you and stuff would be too expensive to do for everyone, and stuff.
Actually, there are games with actual AI that learns your style.

WWF Wrestlemania 2000 and WWF No Mercy (both for N64) come to mind... mainly since I was playing them today. Your opponents will throw out more strikes if you tend to arttempt grapple counters more frequently and vice versa. Of course, they also tend to recover faster and counter even the most well timed attacks on higher difficulties.

But the most glaring example of CPU cheating I can think of is Shin Akuma in Capcom vs SNK 2. Not only is he (at least) 3 times faster than you, has priority coming out his ass and doesn't always finish his animations when branching into other moves, but he can also do ground moves while still in the air (but at least only on occasion). Ultimate Rugal is pretty bad too.

[Dave Youell]

The biggest cheat by far has to be M F'N Bison on hardest level on street fighter 2.

No fucking way does that mofo hold back for 2 seconds before he hits the Pyscho Crusher, what a cheating dick!

[Kane Knight]

The biggest cheat by far has to be M F'N Bison on hardest level on street fighter 2.

No fucking way does that mofo hold back for 2 seconds before he hits the Pyscho Crusher, what a cheating dick!
\
A lot of folks did that, too.

Guile would chain sonic booms, for example. Though Bison's worse in that game, for sure.

And Funk's right, Silent. It's actually not all that unfeasable to get an opponent that learns. Programmers are lazy, but it's not really cost that's a significant deterrant.

[Jaton]

You don't have to hold back for 2 seconds exactly.

Chaining sonic booms is not only possible, it's rather easy.

Quote the ST player, nevermore.

[Disturbed316]

Was playing Top Spin 2 yesterday and the computer started serving under arm, fucking cheating bastard :mad:

I didn't even know you could do it.

[PapaGeorgio]

You sure you were talking bout Madden and not Blitz for n64, cause that is a game that fucking cheats.

[Silent]

Actually, there are games with actual AI that learns your style.

WWF Wrestlemania 2000 and WWF No Mercy (both for N64) come to mind... mainly since I was playing them today. Your opponents will throw out more strikes if you tend to arttempt grapple counters more frequently and vice versa. Of course, they also tend to recover faster and counter even the most well timed attacks on higher difficulties.

But the most glaring example of CPU cheating I can think of is Shin Akuma in Capcom vs SNK 2. Not only is he (at least) 3 times faster than you, has priority coming out his ass and doesn't always finish his animations when branching into other moves, but he can also do ground moves while still in the air (but at least only on occasion). Ultimate Rugal is pretty bad too.

Well yeah I didn't mean to say that all games had cheating AI, and yeah I agree with you on Wrestlemania and No Mercy, but I don't think it is the same in like.. racing games, because they will catch up at a seemingly impossible speed when they fall behind, you know?

[road doggy dogg]

In most RTS games the computer players have the entire map scouted, which is kind lame

[Stickman]

I think it does cheat. I've been steamrolling over teams in Madden 07, throwing for 500 yards a game, then all of a sudden my receivers don't catch shit, I throw 5 interceptions, and loss to the last place team. I also can't get my running game going, Alexander must have the Madden Curse in the game.

[road doggy dogg]

irl*

[Funky Fly]

Well yeah I didn't mean to say that all games had cheating AI, and yeah I agree with you on Wrestlemania and No Mercy, but I don't think it is the same in like.. racing games, because they will catch up at a seemingly impossible speed when they fall behind, you know?
That sounds like F-Zero right there. There is no way to get a huge lead and keep it in that game. Also, if you bump someone on a jump and they fly off the track to their death, they miraculously come back to life and catch up to you within 15 seconds.

[Silent]

That sounds like F-Zero right there. There is no way to get a huge lead and keep it in that game. Also, if you bump someone on a jump and they fly off the track to their death, they miraculously come back to life and catch up to you within 15 seconds.

Yeah I remember that, also the Need for Speed Underground games, I saw it a lot.

[Bad Company]

Yeah I remember that, also the Need for Speed Underground games, I saw it a lot.
Most Arcade Style Race Games have "loser catch up". Pretty beneficial after you've crashed, pain in the ass when you're in front :D

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, that's kind of the point of the system. No real threat if you're a mile ahead.

[El Fangel]

X-Men Mutant Academy.

Two people when on higher difficulty are neigh unbeatable

Magneto - Magnet blast which are stringed together so tightly are unavoidable
Wolverine - corner plus hard strike then uppercut is your ass losing.
Also world series of poker has broken AI after a few hours they know what cards you have.

[My Final Heaven]

A couple of years ago, I programmed a little on a fighting game engine called MUGEN. I remember that one of the options in the code was to have the computer cheat by not having to enter the commands to do moves. Sneaky way to make an AI appear "smarter".

[Kane Knight]

Pretty much what many fighters seem to do.

[Kalyx triaD]

DoA 2. Boss character, Tengu. "Misty eyes of a cheated gamer".

That is all.

[Kalyx triaD]

Fuck Tengu, BTW.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

There are alot of games out now that have learning AI. I believe, but im not 100%, that Bully by Rockstar has that and lego star wars 2 has an option to disable it.

[Savio]

Mario Kart 64 cheats

[Funky Fly]

yup

big time

[Kane Knight]

Mario Kart in general cheats. But they're shitty games anyway, not to be taken as a serious racing title either.

[Bad Company]

wacky wheels for life

[Jon Kano]

Mario Kart 64 cheats

Hell yeah.

Me and my mates play MK64 religiously still, we never ever get bored with it. I could go on and on about why, and how good, unpredictable, exciting and crazy it still is but....

The cheating is hellacious sometimes. If they ever get hit by a fake box or shell, and they are not on screen, they dont stop, pretty much keep going.

You could be about to cross the line then somehow they get a boost out of nowhere that ensures they win.

If you do short-cuts or cheats, for example the ramp into the cave on beach, then they manage to speed up enough to catch up/overtake even though you have just cut the course.


We even wrote a massive email to nintendo saying how much we like the game but how much it cheats and if there is some kind of artifical cheating brain in the game or whatever but they said no

[Jon Kano]

Mario Kart 64 cheats

Hell yeah.

Me and my mates play MK64 religiously still, we never ever get bored with it. I could go on and on about why, and how good, unpredictable, exciting and crazy it still is but....

The cheating is hellacious sometimes. If they ever get hit by a fake box or shell, and they are not on screen, they dont stop, pretty much keep going.

You could be about to cross the line then somehow they get a boost out of nowhere that ensures they win.

If you do short-cuts or cheats, for example the ramp into the cave on beach, then they manage to speed up enough to catch up/overtake even though you have just cut the course.


We even wrote a massive email to nintendo saying how much we like the game but how much it cheats and if there is some kind of artifical cheating brain in the game or whatever but they said no and to

[Jon Kano]

Mario Kart 64 cheats

Hell yeah.

Me and my mates play MK64 religiously still, we never ever get bored with it. I could go on and on about why, and how good, unpredictable, exciting and crazy it still is but....

The cheating is hellacious sometimes. If they ever get hit by a fake box or shell, and they are not on screen, they dont stop, pretty much keep going.

You could be about to cross the line then somehow they get a boost out of nowhere that ensures they win.

If you do short-cuts or cheats, for example the ramp into the cave on beach, then they manage to speed up enough to catch up/overtake even though you have just cut the course.


We even wrote a massive email to nintendo saying how much we like the game but how much it cheats and if there is some kind of artifical cheating brain in the game or whatever but they said no and

[Jon Kano]

Mario Kart 64 cheats

Hell yeah.

Me and my mates play MK64 religiously still, we never ever get bored with it. I could go on and on about why, and how good, unpredictable, exciting and crazy it still is but....

The cheating is hellacious sometimes. If they ever get hit by a fake box or shell, and they are not on screen, they dont stop, pretty much keep going.

You could be about to cross the line then somehow they get a boost out of nowhere that ensures they win.

If you do short-cuts or cheats, for example the ramp into the cave on beach, then they manage to speed up enough to catch up/overtake even though you have just cut the course.


We even wrote a massive email to nintendo saying how much we like the game but how much it cheats and if there is some kind of artifical cheating brain in the game or whatever but they said no and to not take it so seriously.

[Funky Fly]

Holy quadruple post

[Jon Kano]

I dunno what happened, the post tab or something got highlighted while I was typing and everytime I hit a key, it posted?!?

[M-A-G]

Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3

[Savio]

or like when the get flattend when not on screen the just pop back up

[Hitman84]

WWF Royal Rumble on the Mega Drive, esp in Royal Rumble mode. You'd be down to the last two, normally against Jim Duggan or Rick Martel, with half an energy meter left and within seconds the CPU would have your ass over the top rope ... grr.

Probably not the best example to give, but I'm with you all on the SFII thing against M.Bison or Guile, and the No Mercy/WM2000 thing.

[El Fangel]

In shooter games, how alot of the enemies have perfect and utterly impeccable accuracy. and how sometimes you know you did something, but it shows like it didn't happen (e.g firing a rocket at a car in GTA and it still going) or when you have the exact same situation twice, but another enemy pops up out of nowhere the second time around (happens in Fable: TLC )

[M-A-G]

Quit making excuses and just admit you guys suck.

[MMercM]

It's called A.I. adaptation. It makes it so the game's not pathetically easy. And that No Mercy thing makes it more realistic too, if you're throwing all grapple blocks to a grappler, of course the grappler is going to try striking, even in a real match. Look, if you knew a perfect counter to an Armbar, in say, MMA, of course the guy is not going to try for an armbar. He is going to try for something else, because he doesn't want to be countered and chained into a predicament he doesnt want to be in.

It's not cheating, it's realism.

[Kane Knight]

So it's realistic for one guy to have to hit button combinations but the other not to?

Or for cars to be immune to damage?

Also, let me ask you this: Why the fuck would you choose the examples that weren't given as cheating, but were actually given as an example of an adaptive AI? Did you even read the thread?

[M-A-G]

So it's realistic for one guy to have to hit button combinations but the other not to?



Even I can become a 10 time world champion by just having to press L1. :mad:

[Extreme Angle]

Shao Khan on UMK3 cheats
he lets you win the first or second round, then after you've won one he will go knee attack crazy on you...
still beat him tho :love:...twice :D

[Jonster]

But the most glaring example of CPU cheating I can think of is Shin Akuma in Capcom vs SNK 2. Not only is he (at least) 3 times faster than you, has priority coming out his ass and doesn't always finish his animations when branching into other moves, but he can also do ground moves while still in the air (but at least only on occasion). Ultimate Rugal is pretty bad too.

That's not cheating, it's just unfair. It's SNK Boss Syndrome! (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Fighting_game_terms#SNK_Boss_Syndrome)

It's fairly common in fighting games, see also Bison in Street Fighter Alpha 3, Gill in Street Fighter 2, Dizzy in Guilty Gear X, I-No in Guilty Gear XX, most other SNK bosses, True Ogre in Tekken 3. I'll stop now.

[Outsider]

In Fifa 2006 in an important match against a better oppenent, all of a sudden my players can't pass and always send the ball in comletely the wrong direction :mad:

[Funky Fly]

That's not cheating, it's just unfair. It's SNK Boss Syndrome! (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Fighting_game_terms#SNK_Boss_Syndrome)

It's fairly common in fighting games, see also Bison in Street Fighter Alpha 3, Gill in Street Fighter 2, Dizzy in Guilty Gear X, I-No in Guilty Gear XX, most other SNK bosses, True Ogre in Tekken 3. I'll stop now.
I-No not so much. She has a super mover that is basically an "unavoidable" one hit kill (during which time she is also invincible), but there are 2 ways around it.

1. Recognize the pattern and stand in an appropriate spot (there's like 4 variations to the move, all with a spot where the move will miss).

2. Hit your one hit kill first.

Anyway, SNK boss syndrome refers to characters that are mad broken, intentionally like Gill and most of the SNK bosses. A lot of bosses (especially playable ones) just get ramped up speed and power. Then when you play them, they are suddenly infected wih regularcharacteritis and are just like everyone else. That's what I was kinda getting at with Shin Akuma and I-No. Also True Ogre = mad pussy.

[Funky Fly]

In Fifa 2006 in an important match against a better oppenent, all of a sudden my players can't pass and always send the ball in comletely the wrong direction :mad:
That is a glitch I think. That tends to happen to me at random times.

[Jonster]

I-No not so much. She has a super mover that is basically an "unavoidable" one hit kill (during which time she is also invincible), but there are 2 ways around it.

Also True Ogre = mad pussy.

Yeah I know, but it's still the point she's invincible that makes it.

I know True Ogre is a bit shit, I was trying to think of one from a 3D beat em up, although how could I forget whatshername from DOA4 - who still pales in comparrison to most of the 2D ones.

[darkpower]

In fighting games that's called "cheapness".

In Final Fantasy XI, if you're aggroed by a mob, the mob has the authority to pass right through a solid closed door to come after you, it seems. Not only that, but a few nights ago I learned it may quite possibly climb up cliffs and walls that quite possibly even God couldn't climb up to get to where you are to own your ass. And it's usually a "Incrediably Tough" mob or a NM that'll chase you to the fucking end of the zone to kill you.