Genesis Results(spoilers)

[Skippord]

Pre-show

Christy Hemme asked fans who is going to win tonight, Samoa Joe or Kurt Angle, which was interrupted by LAX. They are teasing they'll burn the American flag tonight.

Eric Young was interrupted by Robert Roode, and his open challenge. Roode told Young if he didn't wrestle him tonight, he could be fired.

A) Robert Roode (with Ms. Brooks) vs. Eric Young. Young, wrestling in his jeans, lost to Roode when the heel had his feet on the ropes at 3:41. Young told the referee, who re-started the match. Within ten seconds, Young did the same to Roode, pinning Roode with his feet on the ropes.

Backstage, Hemme was in Samoa's Joe locker room, but LAX came in and talked about burning the U.S. flag.

Christian Cage came out and said it was a load of crap that he's wrestling AJ Styles tonight, as Cage is the number one contender. Styles runs out and jumps Cage, leading to a pull apart.

James Mitchell cut a promo backstage with Abyss, hyping the Abyss-Sting match.

Pre-show ends with Angle arriving in the parking lot.

GENESIS PPV

Opening video package airs.

(1) Voodoo Kin Mafia (James Gang) vs. Kazarian, Bentley, and Devine in a handicap match. Kazarian, Bentley and Devine are followers, and commentary discusses their "Redeemer." Kip pins Devine at 3:39. Not much of an opener. After the match, BG cuts a promo on Vince, Triple H and Shawn Michaels using their real names. BG said to tune in on Thursday night for 'Impact' to see what happens next.

After the announcer's hyped the card, Devine, Kazarian, and Bentley returned with Devine's face covered. Raven comes out with half of his face covered, dressed in white, and hit Devine on the bare back with a purple kendo stick.

Backstage, Shane Douglas (with the Naturals) cut a promo on Team 3D. They have a cracked table with the words "Team 3D was here" on it. Douglas said they'd like to face Team 3D tonight, but they aren't here.

2) Sonjay Dutt and Jay Lethal vs. The Naturals (with Shane Douglas. The babyfaces do a double clip over the top rope onto the Naturals, which got the fans to chant "TNA, TNA." Rather than returing to the back, Douglas remained in the corner of his team. The Naturals win when Stevens pinned Dutt at 8:17.

Backstage, LAX cut a promo on Petey Williams, and American politics. Konnan once again said they are going to burn the American flag. JB said Jim Cornette is here tonight to represent TNA, but Konnan says he doesn't take orders from him.

3) X-Division Title match: Christopher Daniels vs. Chris Sabin. Before the match, Backstage, JB interviews Daniels. Daniels said he is still friends with AJ, but he has his own issues. Daniels said he is leaving tonight with the X-Division title, and Sabin's respect. Match starts with fans chanting "Fallen Angel, lets go Sabin." Sabin tossed in a chair, but Styles entered the ring and took the chair with him. Daniels leaped off the top rope onto Sabin on the outside. BME by Daniels, but Sabin kicked out. Daniels rolls up Sabin at 13:22 to retain the X-Division title. After the match, Sabin was going to attack Daniels with a chair is saved by Jerry Lynn. Lynn gets Sabin to shake Daniels hand, but sucks him into a cradle shot.

In a pre-recorded segment, Nash talks to Austin Starr and Alex Shelley. He tells them they need a win. Nash said to win this one for "Bo," they say Bo Schembechler? Nash says Bo Derek.

(4) Ron Killing and Lance Hoyt vs. Alex Shelley and Austin Starr. Nash is sitting ringside with Tenay and West. Nash is wearing a sling, and said he injured his arm while wrestling two nights ago in Japan. Right! Nash said on Thursday's "Impact," he is calling a meeting with all the X-Division stars. Good work, but the fans aren't into this one. Babyfaces win at 11:09. They are showing no replies of the finishes tonight, guess they are saving time for the Samoa Joe-Angle bout.

Backstage, Cage cut a promo. I thought Cage would sell the juice job from the Impact special Thursday, but he didn't even have a band aid on his head. Cage said he'll be waiting for the Abyss-Sting winner.

(5) AJ Styles vs. Christian Cage. Tenay pointed out that this is their first match in TNA. AJ flipped over the top ropes onto Cage, but landed hard against the guard rail. Fans were flat for much of the match, but heated up with many near falls towards the end of the bout. Cage tried to use a chair, but Daniels tried to pull it from his hands. It backfired, and Cage pinned AJ at 15:45. AJ and Daniels got into a heated face to face debate. Lethal and Dutt tried to break it up. Rhino came out. On the mic, Rhino said he won't let AJ and Daniels have a falling out like he had with his former buddy, Christian Cage. AJ called Rhino Dr. Phil and stormed off.

Backstage, AMW with Gail Kim interviewed by JB. AWM said pride is on the line, not just tag team titles. Harris said LAX won't be burning the flag tonight. Storm said its going to be a fight tonight.

(6) World Tag Team title match: LAX (with Konnan) vs. America's Most Wanted (with Gail Kim). On the mic, Konnan said there is nothing Jim Cornette can do, the first amendment will allow them to burn the flag. AMW rushed LAX to start the match. Much more heat in this match, as Konnan worked the fans teasing he is going to burn the flag. Fans are chanting "USA." Death sentence by AMW, but Konnan had the referee distracted. A blow torch was used on Storm, which allowed Hernandez to score the pinfall at 9:23. After the match, Petey Williams stopped LAX from doing the gringo killer on Gail Kim.
Jim Cornette made his way to the ring. Cornette said management and fans don't like Konnan teasing he'll burn the American flag. Cornette said TNA has decided they aren't fit to be NWA World Tag Team champions, and strips them of the tag team belts. Cornette said they have until Thursday night to return the belts, or they will be terminated.

In a pre-recorded backstage segment, Jim Mitchell (with Abyss) cut a promo on Sting. Mitchell talked about Sting's past sins.

(7) NWA World Heavyweight title match: Sting vs. Abyss (with Abyss). Abyss attacked Sting before the ring introductions. Early on in the match, Sting and Abyss battled into the crowd. Abyss set up barbed wire on two tables near the entrance ramp. Referee Rudy Charles warned Abyss and Mitchell not to slam Sting through those tables. Action moved back to the ring. At the 7:00 mark, Sting applied a scorpion death lock, but Abyss made it to the ropes. Black hole slam, but Sting kicked out! Sting battled Abyss on the outside. Sting grabbed the rope hanging from the arena. Sting tied up Abyss and lifted him upside down, leaving him hanging in front of the announcers. Sting tied the cable, and attacked Abyss with a chair. Sting finally released him. Sting dragged Abyss up the ramp. Rudy Charles tried to stop Sting, but Sting clotheslined the referee resulting in a DQ. Sting drops Abyss through the barbed wire tables. This is a much darker Sting. Abyss wins via DQ. Rudy Charles informs ring announcer David Penzer that Sting was disqualified, thus Abyss in your NEW NWA World Heavyweight champion!

(8) Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe. As soon as they look up, fans chanted "this is awesome." The crowd is hot for this one. Joe slammed Angle into the guard rail from the ring. Samoa Joe does a suicide dive onto Angle on the outside. He takes Angle around the ring and slams him into the steel ring steps. As Angle re-enters the ring, his is bleeding from his head. Joe greets him with a head butt, and tries to open his cut more. Joe has the upper hand, as blood continues to drip from Angle's head. Angle's blood flow reminds me of Steve Austin bleeding during his famed match with Bret Hart. Angle hits Samoa Joe with two german suplexes, but couldn't get him up for a third. Muscle buster by Joe at 9:30, but Angle kicked out! Fans chant this is awesome. Angle hits an Olympic slam, but Joe kicks out. Fans chanted "make him tap" at Angle. Angle slapped on the Angle lock, but Joe reverses it into a choke. Angle gets up, and hits another Olympic slam, followed by another ankle lock as Joe taps out at 13:33. The winning streak is over for Joe. After the match, Joe grabbed a mic. Fans chanted "you tapped out." Joe said tapped because he realized Angle was the better man. Joe asks for a rematch. Fans chanted "one more match," but Angle refused to shake Joe's hand and walks away. Joe then says they'll have to do it the hard way. Fans chanted "Joe, Joe" as he walked away.

[PullMyFinger]

lol So one minute Joe is the heel and Angle is the face, then it reverses within three days?

Vince Russo booking for you.

[FourFifty]

I think Jay Sherman said it best...

It STINKS!

LAX are getting their titles stripped, Sting losing the NWA title on a dq, Joe tapping out and then saying Kurt was the better man, refs letting a match go one because a wrestler said he had his feet on the ropes...
Who books this drek?

[Dorkchop]

Sounds like some of the matches were good.

What the hell is up with Sting losing the title on a DQ? I'm all for Abyss winning the title, but maybe they should have booked theri feud for longer and better. Oh wait, this is TNA.

[PullMyFinger]

I think Jay Sherman said it best...

It STINKS!

LAX are getting their titles stripped, Sting losing the NWA title on a dq, Joe tapping out and then saying Kurt was the better man, refs letting a match go one because a wrestler said he had his feet on the ropes...
Who books this drek?
You don't know? Or was that rhetorical? If you don't know, Vince Russo does it now.

[Shadow]

Oh Russo...why must you be an idiot?

[Blitz]

Wow, can't believe they put Angle over cleanly :nono:

[Mr. Nerfect]

A lot of good, but a lot of crazy. I'd personally have put Samoa Joe over, but the match sounds good. I love the way TNA blurs the lines between heels and faces. Everyone gets cheered in TNA, so why not just make each story a rollercoaster?

This idea is really crazy, but can anyone else see TNA establishing new Championships out of this? I can very easily see The LAX proclaiming to be new TNA World Tag Team Champions, and offering Sting a new TNA World Heavyweight Championship. It sounds really crazy, but I think it'd make for interesting television. Jim Cornette doesn't want to upset Sting, so he sanctions the Championships, but he wants to get them in his possession so he can destroy them. He puts Sting against Christian Cage at Turning Point, and he sticks The LAX against Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams.

Both Championships change hands, and Jim Cornette is about to nullify them, when Jeff Jarrett objects, and says that it is time for a change in TNA. Jarrett points out the role he plays in TNA. He proposes matches for Final Resolution, where if the winner can either kill off the TNA Titles, or choose to make them TNA's representative Championship in place of the NWA Titles: NWA Champion Kurt Angle vs. TNA Champion Christian Cage and NWA Tag Team Champions America's Most Wanted vs. TNA Tag Team Champions Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams. Kurt Angle forces Christian Cage to tap out, which ends his streak, and Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams defeat America's Most Wanted, to become two-time Tag Team Champions.

Kurt Angle chooses to represent the World Heavyweight Championship with the TNA Title, previously held only by Sting and Christian Cage; Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams also choose to represent TNA with the younger Championship, held only by Homicide & Hermandez previously.

This could lead to The LAX feuding with Jarrett & Williams over the belts they created, and Triple X reforming, as I believe the stipulation in the Six Sides of Steel Match at Lockdown 2005 stated they couldn't compete for the NWA World Tag Team Titles. Kurt Angle could feud with Samoa Joe over the new World Championship. It'd make an interesting start in 2007 for TNA.

[El Fangel]

:rofl: Dr.Phil :rofl:

[El Fangel]

A lot of good, but a lot of crazy. I'd personally have put Samoa Joe over, but the match sounds good. I love the way TNA blurs the lines between heels and faces. Everyone gets cheered in TNA, so why not just make each story a rollercoaster?

This idea is really crazy, but can anyone else see TNA establishing new Championships out of this? I can very easily see The LAX proclaiming to be new TNA World Tag Team Champions, and offering Sting a new TNA World Heavyweight Championship. It sounds really crazy, but I think it'd make for interesting television. Jim Cornette doesn't want to upset Sting, so he sanctions the Championships, but he wants to get them in his possession so he can destroy them. He puts Sting against Christian Cage at Turning Point, and he sticks The LAX against Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams.

Both Championships change hands, and Jim Cornette is about to nullify them, when Jeff Jarrett objects, and says that it is time for a change in TNA. Jarrett points out the role he plays in TNA. He proposes matches for Final Resolution, where if the winner can either kill off the TNA Titles, or choose to make them TNA's representative Championship in place of the NWA Titles: NWA Champion Kurt Angle vs. TNA Champion Christian Cage and NWA Tag Team Champions America's Most Wanted vs. TNA Tag Team Champions Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams. Kurt Angle forces Christian Cage to tap out, which ends his streak, and Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams defeat America's Most Wanted, to become two-time Tag Team Champions.

Kurt Angle chooses to represent the World Heavyweight Championship with the TNA Title, previously held only by Sting and Christian Cage; Jeff Jarrett & Petey Williams also choose to represent TNA with the younger Championship, held only by Homicide & Hermandez previously.

This could lead to The LAX feuding with Jarrett & Williams over the belts they created, and Triple X reforming, as I believe the stipulation in the Six Sides of Steel Match at Lockdown 2005 stated they couldn't compete for the NWA World Tag Team Titles. Kurt Angle could feud with Samoa Joe over the new World Championship. It'd make an interesting start in 2007 for TNA.


it would be a good idea, and fairly good story line, but to rid TNA of the NWA title seems a little...Wrong, It would safe to say make things interesting.

Chris FUCKING Daniels.

[Jordan]

FUCK I am so pissed Sting lost the title, he is the only wrestler I mark for. FUCK

[Mr. Nerfect]

it would be a good idea, and fairly good story line, but to rid TNA of the NWA title seems a little...Wrong, It would safe to say make things interesting.

Chris FUCKING Daniels.



I just think it'd make things fresh. With Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe and Christian Cage feuding over it, it would just be a bright start for TNA, while the WWE continues to get worse and worse.

[El Fangel]

I have to say a super-feud over a newly created title would make me watch wrestling again...maybe.

[Mr. JL]

Man, I am so glad I decided not to buy this PPV. It sounds God awful. Sting losing the title he's chased for 8 months, only to lose it less than a month later via disqualification??? Fucking GAY

[St. Jimmy]

... Angle ends the streak? WTF?! Abyss beats sting after BARELY a month, on a DQ?... Yeah. This is the new face of sports entertainment. Also, Antifreeze is the new blood. Go ahead and make that change-over.

[Mr. JL]

Oksy, I am drunk and I still do not believe the 'spoilers' I've just read. I mean, the results are absolutely retarded.

[Tb1]

Hey, at least the PPV didn't blend like most TNA shows. The whole thing caught me totally off guard.

[Funky Fly]

K, the championshit match was ended badly (title change on a dq? fuck no :n: ), but I like the way the Joe/Angle match ended. If they can reverse their roles as well as Austin and Hart did, it will be gold.

[Lara Emily]

K, the championshit match was ended badly (title change on a dq? fuck no :n: ), but I like the way the Joe/Angle match ended. If they can reverse their roles as well as Austin and Hart did, it will be gold.

Nah they fucked that already, Joe tapped out abnd then even proclaimed outloud that Angle was better, what BS, if they wanted Angle to win Joe should have passed out after like 3 or 4 minutes or more in the hold.

Purely retarded.

The entire show sounded like shit.

Tag champs losing the titles because of poor moral character :|, title change by random DQ, lmao.

[Funky Fly]

You got a point, but maybe they can save it.

Also notice how I didn't mention the rest of the card at all. Yeah.

[El Fangel]

Nah they fucked that already, Joe tapped out abnd then even proclaimed outloud that Angle was better, what BS, if they wanted Angle to win Joe should have passed out after like 3 or 4 minutes or more in the hold.

Purely retarded.

The entire show sounded like shit.

Tag champs losing the titles because of poor moral character :|, title change by random DQ, lmao.

I have to agree with you completely Laura, that is what they should have done, that way Joe, could have had a loss, without again actually losing, he passed out rather then lose, and Angle could have claimed to end his streak, and Joe could have said make me tap next time, and had a good lenthy feud ending with Angle and Joe, for example fighting somewhere and falling, say off scaffolding EMT'S having to come remove them, which still gives no winner, and shows that neither is going to give into the other, while keeping Angles rep up, and Joe retaining his tough-son-a-bitch juggernaut role.

Also as much as I love Abyss having the title, and hating having the walking dead hold titles, I was pissy about it changing on a DQ also.

And Allienoid I have reread your idea, it seems better the more I read it, and by sounding like something the fans would enjoy, it likely won't happen but I would like to elaborate on a couple things,

If Jarrett decided to stop the titles from being destroyed and showed his outside (owning) influence in the company, that may break Kayfabe, and I don't think that TNA would break this 4th Wall, But I do like the idea very much, also if they unified it and Angle won, I think that he would respect the history behind the NWA title, and want to make a change so I believe should that take place, he will make something like the "TNA/NWA Undisputed/Unified Title. And LAX winning and showing there lack of respect to the company/US in general would opt to have the old titles destroyed which may spark a nice feud with Jarrett and Williams.

Anyways this is just what I believe would happen/hope would happen.

[Loose Cannon]

Joe wins by some fluke pinning roll up (i.e. Bret/Piper Mania 8)

Joe offers hand to Angle and Angle blows him off and knocks him when Joe turns around.

How Hard is That you morons?

[Jordan]

Joe is gonna kill you!

[Shadow]

Nah they fucked that already, Joe tapped out abnd then even proclaimed outloud that Angle was better, what BS, if they wanted Angle to win Joe should have passed out after like 3 or 4 minutes or more in the hold.

Purely retarded.

The entire show sounded like shit.

Tag champs losing the titles because of poor moral character :|, title change by random DQ, lmao.

I gotta agree with the person in the midst of a sex change here. Purely retarded and purely Russo. No wonder Cornette wanted to quit then be apart of this crap.

[Testicle]

the tag belts thing pisses me off the most, lax was actually going somewhere and tna fucks it up, as usual

[PullMyFinger]

the tag belts thing pisses me off the most, lax was actually going somewhere and tna fucks it up, as usual
Most likely I'm assuming LAX will fakely give the belts back and proceed to attack Cornette...busting him open.

I sure hope so.

[PullMyFinger]

Joe wins by some fluke pinning roll up (i.e. Bret/Piper Mania 8)

Joe offers hand to Angle and Angle blows him off and knocks him when Joe turns around.

How Hard is That you morons?
They're prob gonna do a best 2 out of 3.

How the match should've ended...Samoa Joe gets tasered and Kurt Angle wins. LOL

[St. Jimmy]

They're prob gonna do a best 2 out of 3.

How the match should've ended...Samoa Joe gets tasered and Kurt Angle wins. LOL

Still a better ending to that match.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the way LAX lost the titles was good. They're whole gimmick is that they're discriminated against, and that they're edgy about it. I don't know where the belts are going to go, but I can assume a tournament or something will take place.

Abyss winning the NWA Title via disqualification was stupid, however. They should have just have him won it cleanly. Here is their best chance to put Abyss over as a monster, and they fuck it up by making it about Sting. To save face, maybe Christian Cage could have cost Sting the match? It sets up Cage vs. Sting for Turning Point, and gets the NWA Title on Abyss.

If Kurt Angle was going to go over Samoa Joe, this was the way to do it. Joe passing out to the Ankle Lock would have been pussy. Something about it just screams weak. If they wanted to go the pass out route, I'd have Angle put in the Clutch. Joe is a little frustrated that he didn't beat Angle the way he wanted to, so he goes back for more.

My ideal ending of the match would have been Joe winning with a Muscle Buster. He then follows up with a gratuitous Muscle Buster, just to be an asshole. He then puts Angle in the Clutch, and attacks him when they stretcher him out.

[Loose Cannon]

why do you think having Joe tap to the ankle lock was a good idea? About 1500 other wrestlers have tapped to the ankle lock. So Joe just becomes another victim? How in the world does that make Joe look anything different, which I assume if what they would want to go for.

The unstoppable, unbeatable Joe character is finished. And to even make it more laughable, they made him put his hand out to Angle. Only to have Angle brush him off and make him look more like a goof.

[6to1]

yep russo screwed up joe and tna, i so wish it was bischoff that went to tna instead of russo.

[Thriller]

Did any of you actually watch this PPV.It was one of the best ppvs ive seen in awhile.The whole sting dq was explained.As in back when TNA first started the had the rule title could change hands on dq in order to prevent people from getting DQed on purpose

[KingofOldSchool]

LOL that sounds awful.

At least WWE is SOMEWHAT structured.

[KingofOldSchool]

And what's up with all of the X Title matches ending with rollups lately?

[Caged Heat18]

It looks like I made the right decision in not ordering it.

[Mr. JL]

Heads or Tails?

The show looks like it was booked by the flip of a coin.

[McLegend]

I think Joe should have won, and I think Joe should be the main guy in TNA.

Now let me play devils advocate here on why Angle won.

TNA has over a million dollars invested in Angle. TNA wants Angle to be there big star and the guy that takes them to the next level. Also TNA never ever plans for the long term for some reason, and if you are planning short term then Angle was the right guy to go over.

Again the most important point here is they have over a million invested in Angle, and that is a lot of money to invest on one person especially since TNA has lost an insane amount of money.

[El Fangel]

I think Joe should have won, and I think Joe should be the main guy in TNA.

Now let me play devils advocate here on why Angle won.

TNA has over a million dollars invested in Angle. TNA wants Angle to be there big star and the guy that takes them to the next level. Also TNA never ever plans for the long term for some reason, and if you are planning short term then Angle was the right guy to go over.

Again the most important point here is they have over a million invested in Angle, and that is a lot of money to invest on one person especially since TNA has lost an insane amount of money.

And in that post alone, you state one the big reasons, why TNA may fail, thier inability to completely relie on less-expensive, non former WWE/WCW/ECW, broken wrestlers.

[McLegend]

And in that post alone, you state one the big reasons, why TNA may fail, thier inability to completely relie on less-expensive, non former WWE/WCW/ECW, broken wrestlers.
right cause Chris Sabin is doing a bang up job by himself.

[KingofOldSchool]

It's not the wrestlers fault, it's the people running the show.

[El Fangel]

What im trying to say is that TNA relys too much on former big two stars to draw attention, and fans. And with paying an obscence amount of money for their services, instead of having more younger healthy, youthful guys like Daniels, Sabin, Williams, Styles.

They rely on excuse me for this. Broken, has-beens, or retirees, such as Angle, and Sting for example, Sting was pretty old when WCW folded and he is still wrestling, and from reports I have read about Angle and issues with his health is seems an unwise descision to put too much faith and money into such a risky venture.

[McLegend]

It's not the wrestlers fault, it's the people running the show.
But the regular viewrs watching have no idea about that.

It's the wrestlers and their names is gonna draw them in.

[El Fangel]

It's not the wrestlers fault, it's the people running the show.
Thats what Im saying, It is the people who run the show, who are putting people who are/were in the spotlight for years, and many newer people thier time to shine during thier prime years.

[McLegend]

What im trying to say is that TNA relys too much on former big two stars to draw attention, and fans. And with paying an obscence amount of money for their services, instead of having more younger healthy, youthful guys like Daniels, Sabin, Williams, Styles.

They rely on excuse me for this. Broken, has-beens, or retirees, such as Angle, and Sting for example, Sting was pretty old when WCW folded and he is still wrestling, and from reports I have read about Angle and issues with his health is seems an unwise descision to put too much faith and money into such a risky venture.
Broken down has beens get you to the top.

[KingofOldSchool]

But the regular viewrs watching have no idea about that.

It's the wrestlers and their names is gonna draw them in.

Yeah cause the name Kurt Angle is bringing in the fans. :roll:

[KingofOldSchool]

Broken down has beens get you to the top.

So Ric Flair single handedly brought WWE back up to the 5's in the ratings?

[McLegend]

So Ric Flair single handedly brought WWE back up to the 5's in the ratings?
No see WWE is already at the top. I was thinking Hogan with WCW. C'mon now.

Now the counter point to that is "Well WCW went out of business." See WCW did not develop talent once they got to the top, but see now TNA might be learning from WCW mistakes.

Get more viewers then have Joe go over Angle when people are actually watching so it actually means something.

[KingofOldSchool]

No see WWE is already at the top. I was thinking Hogan with WCW. C'mon now.


Hulk Hogan, himself, never drew in WCW.

It was the nWo angle that did them business they did.

See when Hogan debuted in WCW, nothing changed, they didn't set the World on fire. Hogan was just ass stale and boring as he was in the WWF. Then WCW did the whole Outsider angle which kick started the nWo. It wasn't Hulk Hogan that got WCW huge, it was the nWo angle.

[El Fangel]

You make a fairly good point, but don't forget, TNA is more or less the alternative to WWE, and as the alternative, you shouldn't be watching something that should be called "Legends Of Wrestling".

[KingofOldSchool]

Oh and how did WWE get to the top? They didn't use old timers at the two times they hit it big.

Back in the 80's it wasn't Bruno Sammartino that kick started the Rock N' Wrestling era, it was a fresh Hulk Hogan.

In the late 90's it wasn't Roddy Piper that kick started the Attitude era, it was a fresh Steve Austin.

[McLegend]

Hulk Hogan, himself, never drew in WCW.

It was the nWo angle that did them business they did.

See when Hogan debuted in WCW, nothing changed, they didn't set the World on fire. Hogan was just ass stale and boring as he was in the WWF. Then WCW did the whole Outsider angle which kick started the nWo. It wasn't Hulk Hogan that got WCW huge, it was the nWo angle.
It was clearly Hogan turning heel that did it. Hogan is the main reason why WCW and NWO caught on fire

Say if it was NWA legend Sting who turned heel and joined the NWO it would have fallen on deaf ears.

[El Fangel]

Oh and how did WWE get to the top? They didn't use old timers at the two times they hit it big.

Back in the 80's it wasn't Bruno Sammartino that kick started the Rock N' Wrestling era, it was a fresh Hulk Hogan.

In the late 90's it wasn't Roddy Piper that kick started the Attitude era, it was a fresh Steve Austin.

I see you failed to mention it hitting anything big in the new millenium. So I thought that I would point out that it was...he did...John...Lesn...ahh nevermind I see your point. :lol:

[KingofOldSchool]

It was clearly Hogan turning heel that did it. Hogan is the main reason why WCW and NWO caught on fire

Say if it was NWA legend Sting who turned heel and joined the NWO it would have fallen on deaf ears.

No, Hogan's turn didn't set the World on fire. The ratings didn't start getting hot until the nWo really got going.

If it was Hogan that caused the whole WCW winning the ratings war for 82 straight weeks, then the amount of nWo merchandise that was flying off the shelves would not compare to the amount of Hollywood Hogan merchandise that was being sold.

People were drawn to this rebellious faction who went against the grain and did what they wanted to do. THAT is why fans paid money to see them, NOT because Hulk Hogan was apart of it.

[KingofOldSchool]

I see you failed to mention it hitting anything big in the new millenium. So I thought that I would point out that it was...he did...John...Lesn...ahh nevermind I see your point. :lol:

Cause nothing big has yet to hit.

You said that old timers get you to the top.

I said WWE never had old timers get them to the top, which you said that they were already on top.

So I basically gave you the two times they got huge, which ironically involved no over the hill guys leading the way.

[McLegend]

Oh and how did WWE get to the top? They didn't use old timers at the two times they hit it big.

Back in the 80's it wasn't Bruno Sammartino that kick started the Rock N' Wrestling era, it was a fresh Hulk Hogan.

In the late 90's it wasn't Roddy Piper that kick started the Attitude era, it was a fresh Steve Austin.
Yes this is true but WWE ratings were already in the mids 2's pre Attiutde Era, and wrestling was becomming popular and the wrestling audience was bigger then ever.

WWE also had the advantage of being WWE where is everybody knew the WWE existed and knew they were on Monday night. They had history on their side and an already somewhat large fan base. TNA does not have that.

Same thing kinda of applies to Hogan in the 80's. WWE was the main stage and already had the fan base. So it was way easier to make new talent because the had the majority of wrestling fans watching your product.

[McLegend]

No, Hogan's turn didn't set the World on fire. The ratings didn't start getting hot until the nWo really got going.

If it was Hogan that caused the whole WCW winning the ratings war for 82 straight weeks, then the amount of nWo merchandise that was flying off the shelves would not compare to the amount of Hollywood Hogan merchandise that was being sold.

People were drawn to this rebellious faction who went against the grain and did what they wanted to do. THAT is why fans paid money to see them, NOT because Hulk Hogan was apart of it.
Yes the reason why people were drawn into though was because Hogan was in it.

People tuned in to see Hulk Hogan playing the bad guy. Now if you would want to say people stayed watching WCW because of all the things you said then I argee with that.

[McLegend]

Cause nothing big has yet to hit.

You said that old timers get you to the top.

I said WWE never had old timers get them to the top, which you said that they were already on top.

So I basically gave you the two times they got huge, which ironically involved no over the hill guys leading the way.
But they are already on the top. They hold the majority of the Market.

They didn't have to take the general population's viewing audience like WCW did and TNA is trying to do.

[El Fangel]

Not trying to argue, rather debating, but you are showing what many consider to be the dawn of modern wrestling is the mid-80's to early 90's is when it took the world by storm. There where hardly no wrestlers before Hulk Hogan that stood out, WWF hyped him, and made him thier poster boy, giving him the fame, and publicity to show off thier product, and in doing so WWF, became known more worldwide. And that carried them to the top, Hogan helped to make them famous and well known, and they just had to tie up some loose ends by getting more talent, and the deal was sealed.

Also you likely noticed that, while not permanently, but periodically Piper and Hogan are STILL needed (apparently) as a crowd draw?

[McLegend]

Yeah cause the name Kurt Angle is bringing in the fans. :roll:
Didn't see this post

I would rather take my chances with Kurt Angle who is name that every wrestling fan knows who has watched wrestling in the past 6.5 years then Samoa Joe who absoutley no one has heard of.

[El Fangel]

Didn't see this post

I would rather take my chances with Kurt Angle who is name that every wrestling fan knows who has watched wrestling in the past 6.5 years then Samoa Joe who absoutley no one has heard of.
Joe is gonna kill you.

[Skippord]

Joe is gonna bore you to death.

[El Fangel]

Joe is going to http://www.pc-volante.ne.jp/smackdown/images/Lita/lita%20(4).jpgyou to death. :p

[D Mac]

I thought it was awesome. Best match of the year.

[Blitz]

Joe is gonna Lita you to death?

[Londoner]

Sting vs. Abyss (with Abyss)

Abyss was with Abyss? How did that work out then?(i know it was obviously a mistake but still...)

Anyway I agree with the opinion that Joe shouldn't have tapped. It seems as though ever since Russo started booking things in TNA have gone downhill.

[Pinnacle Charisma]

TNA is by far the best wrestling company around today.

Which is why I have like zero intrest in the wrestling industry for the last few months

[St. Jimmy]

Joe and Angle could have 27 amazing matches, one every night of the month and they'll all still be terrible. Matches are NOTHING without some god-damned proper booking. Angle beat Joe. Joe looks weak now, and they way they did it at the end, Angle now knows he's weak. They need to either have Joe break Angle's fucking neck, or just move on to something else and save as much face as possible.

[Testicle]

someone made a great point earlier in this thread

tna never looks long term, that explains the angle going clean over joe

[The Optimist]

I think it was discussed already, infact I'm certain because I was involved, but it's worth saying again that the only way Angle/Joe could have ended without pissing someone off real bad would have been double DQ or Double Countout or something double. Since either one going over the other would have done something bad.

The whole Sting/Abyss thing startles me, first off I'm almost glad they finally changed a title owner on a DQ since that is a TNA rule and it's been neglected forever. But everything else about it pisses me off. Also, why Abyss? Someone needs to explain why Abyss is even near the NWA title. What is up with Russo trying to turn Sting evil? He tried in WCW with some crazy story line I can barely remember and it didn't work there. I hope this is just a "desperate measures" thing where Sting has to use hardcore shit to get to Abyss instead or actually being Heel Sting.

[Corkscrewed]

LMAO, remember how people said TNA would fuck up the Angle/Joe thing?

Didn't even take two months. :lol: :lol:

I hope Lance Storm didn't watch that, because if he did, he might have had an aneurysm.

[.44 Magdalene]

I hope Lance Storm didn't watch that, because if he did, he might have had an aneurysm.

I think I might have actually had one for him.

[Mr. JL]

I hope Lance Storm didn't watch that, because if he did, he might have had an aneurysm.

I cannot wait for his response though.

[D Mac]

What is up with Russo trying to turn Sting evil? He tried in WCW with some crazy story line I can barely remember and it didn't work there.

It was when he turned Goldberg heel and started the "New Blood".

[D Mac]

I guess I'm the only one that liked this PPV. Russo's trying to shake things up a little bit because we're tired of the same old shit. I know I am.

[Mr. JL]

The DQ rule is especially retarded since almost every match involves wrestler A hitting wrestler B with a chair or some other foreign object and the ref ALWAYS over looks it and lets the match continue.

[FourFifty]

You don't know? Or was that rhetorical? If you don't know, Vince Russo does it now.

I didn't know... :$

[KingofOldSchool]

The whole Sting/Abyss thing startles me, first off I'm almost glad they finally changed a title owner on a DQ since that is a TNA rule and it's been neglected forever.

Well if it was neglected for so long, then why the fuck did they all of a sudden decide to bring it back?

[El Fangel]

Joe is gonna whore you to death?

[ss3gotenks]

does anybody know what the theme tune was for genesis?

[Vastardikai]

I think I liked Sting for a grand total of 30 minutes, EVER. Most of the time my Second favorite Wrestler was whoever Sting's opponent at the time was.

That said, even I realize that Heel Sting = Blasphemy. It's like... Bret Hart and Shawn Micheals talking about old times over a cup of hot cocoa and laughing about how silly Montreal was. ... or like... Hulk Hogan putting someone over in such a way that the guy he loses to actually benefits. ... or like... K-Fed actually being talented.

[Testicle]

I agree with almost everything Vastardikai said, except one part

K-Fed is talented :shifty: