Angle in MMA

[addy2hotty]

I'm guessing you guys in the States see it more than we do over in the UK, which is we don't see any of it. I'm thinking it's some sort of real fighting shit like UFC.

My question is, could Angle handle himself in it, or is he just crazzzieee-talking?

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Kurt Angle would get destroyed. Even before the neck problems. He's a good wrestler but he's not well rounded and as a wrestler he would panic on his back. Someone would either KO him standing up or ground and pound him.

[Destor]

I'd have to see it. I'm not one of those guys who thinks MMA fighters are somehow better than everone else. They're beatable just like anyone else. Kurt has just a good of a chance as anyone.

[Kane Knight]

Kurt Angle would get destroyed. Even before the neck problems. He's a good wrestler but he's not well rounded and as a wrestler he would panic on his back. Someone would either KO him standing up or ground and pound him.

Severely doubt it.

[Destor]

Oh yeah MMA=UFC

[Kane Knight]

I'd have to see it. I'm not one of those guys who think MMA fighters are somehow better than everone else. They're beatab;e just like anyone else. Kurt has just a good of a chance as anyone.

MMA fighters specialise in an adaptable art, which does give them an edge. The easiest way to beat a striker is to grapple, and vice versa. This is why so many single-art combatants have gone into MMA and gotten raped.

Sure, they're beatable. but honestly, mixed martial arts is a rather old idea, and it's been very, very effective.

[Destor]

I'm not arguing against that. Many people who come from a one-dimensional background have adapted very well, and in fact, risen to the top of the ranks. Their is no reason why Anlge can't do the same.

[The Naitch]

maybe Brock can get in and we can see him kiss Kurt again

[Kane Knight]

Which is the main reason I said I doubt HBK's statement.

On the other hand, he would have to (like the other people who came from a one dimensional background) essentially become a mix martial artist in the process.

[Destor]

I suppose. If being well rounded = MMA then I suppose I could claim to be a Mixed Martial Artist. Since I've done/use/practice several martial arts and other fighting styles. Dunno. I don't think Kurt would try to go in there and just wrestle, I will say that. (Allthough a lot a of the good wrestlers that go in there do just wrestle and they tend to win via descision. And Kurt is a GREAT wrestler, so take that for what you will.)

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Which is the main reason I said I doubt HBK's statement.

On the other hand, he would have to (like the other people who came from a one dimensional background) essentially become a mix martial artist in the process.

Oh with training, Kurt could be a good. I don't think he could adapt that quickly though and a number of his fights would show how green he his in it. He could be good, but I'm talking Kurt Angle, the am. wrestler stepping into the ring with only like 6 months cross training.

Brock I could see doing extremely well, I still though think Kurt couldn't hang with the bigger names in MMA.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I suppose. If being well rounded = MMA then I suppose I could claim to be a Mixed Martial Artist. Since I've done/use/practice several martial arts and other fighting styles. Dunno. I don't think Kurt would try to go in there and just wrestle, I will say that. (Allthough a lot a of the good wrestlers that go in there do just wrestle and they tend to win via descision. And Kurt is a GREAT wrestler, so take that for what you will.)

But what if you put him in the ring with Randy Couture, a guy who in all honestly is an incredible wrestler himself but whom is already EXTREMELY well versed in strikes and ground and pound. Or Chuck Liddell, a knockout master with an incredible sprawl defense to a shoot. Same with Cro Crop, or Sivlia or Sakuraba . Too good.

I'm talking Kurt Angle, in six months. He will not be that evolved to step in the ring with the top fighters. As good of a wrestler as he WAS. Trust me, with his neck in the condition it is, Kurt probably isn't half the wrestler he used to be either.

[Destor]

Like I said, I have to see it. I've never seen the man fight and I'm not about to count him until I do. The man has risen to every challenge he has ever had in his entire life. I don't see how I can count him out. 6 monthes of training added on to the life-time of fighting he's done out-side of proffesional combat and the life-time of training in general are going to go a looooooong way in allowing him to adapt to whatever is put in front of him VERY quickly.

There are guys out there who have never had any prefessional training in their lives that could step in the ring with the best of the MMA world and win. People fight all the time. People who aren't proffesionals can be great as well. It's not like Kurt's never had a fight before.

I mean it's fighting man, it's not like it's some new thing. Everyone has had a fight, and some people are great fighters and never been trained. I've seen multi-level black belts gets their asses whipped in bar fights against average joe coal miners.

Why count Kurt out until I've seen what he can do? Seems kinda stupid.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

No, the thing is MMA is really just fighting. There are rules no matter what company you go to. And sure Kurt's been in fights before, but I serverely doubt he's been in a fight with a guy who could come close to his natural wrestling ability and out strike him.

Kurt could be good, but the way I took this was putting Kurt in a ring 6 months from now. And I just don't think, ESPECIALLY with his injuries that he could step to the best of the best.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

And I promise, if Kurt took a match in the UFC, Dana White would see the gold mines that it could be and book Kurt against the guy Kurt would have the biggest problem with just so they could say they beat "former WWE champion" Kurt Angle. Dana also has gone on record with the quote "you're either an actor or you're a fighter, you can't be both." So I think that shows he would put his best fighter against Kurt just out of sure bias.

[Rob]

Severely doubt it.

You kidding me? Kurt would get fucked Iron Sheik style. He can't learn what he'd need to survive now. Even if he did MMA in 1996, it's debatable. Personally, I think he would have been one of the biggest stars of all time but that's just me.

In 2007, most heavyweights who aren't lost on the ground either wrestling or with BJJ would murder Kurt Angle. There is a reason he turned down a 7 figure sum to fight for the UFC you know.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

And I gotta be honest with you, I started MMA as a wrestler, it took me 3 years to break the instinct of getting off my back. When you're a wrestler, you're not comfortable on your back, it goes against your every natural instinct. As result, Kurt would panic, and as result either give someone his back and get chocked out, or allow someone to get mount and ground and pound his head in.

[Kane Knight]

Oh with training, Kurt could be a good. I don't think he could adapt that quickly though and a number of his fights would show how green he his in it. He could be good, but I'm talking Kurt Angle, the am. wrestler stepping into the ring with only like 6 months cross training.

Brock I could see doing extremely well, I still though think Kurt couldn't hang with the bigger names in MMA.

If Kurt's flexible enough to do pro wrestling, I'd imagine he'd be flexible enough to learn a new style.

Especially when he can still rely on wrestling--He just needs to train enough to handle striking, which I'd imagine he could before ever setting fott into the octagon.

[Rob]

For all of those speaking about wrestlers - Matt Lindland was an Olympic silver medalist and he hasn't blown the world over. And he learnt good stand up and wrestled competively through out his career. Angle hasn't wrestled competitively since 1996.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Even if he did MMA in 1996, it's debatable.

You know, in 96 I'd give the nod to Kurt. I'd say he'd dominate even. Especially in North America, MMA was still severely basic. You still had your grapplers fighting your strikers for the most part. Kurt could have evolved as the sport did and probably been the marquee name for quite some time.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

If Kurt's flexible enough to do pro wrestling, I'd imagine he'd be flexible enough to learn a new style.

Especially when he can still rely on wrestling--He just needs to train enough to handle striking, which I'd imagine he could before ever setting fott into the octagon.

I thought about it, and for a minute I agree, but then there's a huge difference in a combative situation and pro wrestling. I think he'd retreat right back into the "Oh my god, I'm on my back, panic time" in a combative situation.

[Rob]

If Kurt's flexible enough to do pro wrestling, I'd imagine he'd be flexible enough to learn a new style.

Especially when he can still rely on wrestling--He just needs to train enough to handle striking, which I'd imagine he could before ever setting fott into the octagon.

Yeah but he is 38 years old with limited use of his arms and serious neck problems. How much can he learn in order to catch up with people who are leagues ahead of him?

At the end of the day, if he could do it, he would have. Nobody in their right mind would turn down over $1 million to fight one show against Daniel Puder. Fuck I'd fight Puder tomorrow for $100,000.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Rob :y:

[McLegend]

I will say he will be able to take people down, but I don't know what he would do once he gets them on the ground.


No way could he beat Chuck Liddell though

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I'm not even sure he could ground some of the bigger names. Yeah, back in 96 he was a great wrestler but fuck me, that was back in 96. And most of the guys in MMA who don't really want to be on the ground, have such good sprawls now a days.

Again, Brock Lesnar could make it given the right direction and dedication. Kurt Angle at this point in his life (the more and more I'm thinking) could not period.

[McLegend]

If this was 10 years ago I think Angle would have dominated UFC like none other.

[Rob]

I will say he will be able to take people down, but I don't know what he would do once he gets them on the ground.


No way could he beat Chuck Liddell though

I think he'd struggle to take Liddell down. He struggled with Daniel Puder and Puder wasn't meant to be fighting back. I'd hate to imagine him trying to take Liddell down with his sprawl and hand power. Actually, I'd be shocked if he lasted 2 rounds with Liddell.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Round one KO 3:02 in.

[Destor]

No, the thing is MMA is really just fighting. There are rules no matter what company you go to. And sure Kurt's been in fights before, but I serverely doubt he's been in a fight with a guy who could come close to his natural wrestling ability and out strike him.

Kurt could be good, but the way I took this was putting Kurt in a ring 6 months from now. And I just don't think, ESPECIALLY with his injuries that he could step to the best of the best.And you don't think an Olmypic Gold medalist is going to out do you? I mean clearly it takes a greater athlete to be an Olympic Gold medalist in the iron man sport that is wrestlign than it does to be an indy MMA guy, yes? (If you say no you need to drop the ego,) so why can't Kurt adapt well in 6 months? It's not like they would actuall put him in there with top guys anyhow. It would be two years (if ever,) until he finnaly saw Main Event level talent. UFC (and MMA ingeneral) have some very shitty fighters. Kurt can handle those guys, and with an uncertain invewstment like Angle those are the kinds of guys he would face.

But agian, I've never seen Kurt fight and I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt. I am in no way implying that he would be some sort of unstoppable Juggarnaut. Maybe he is, I dunno, unlikley. But maybe. Maybe he's a giant bitch and get laid out in one blow. Unlikely, but maybe. Wat I'm saying is I'm not gonna shit on a guy that I honstly can only speculate one way or another.

I'll say this, I would LOVE to find out.

[Rob]

I'm not even sure he could ground some of the bigger names. Yeah, back in 96 he was a great wrestler but fuck me, that was back in 96. And most of the guys in MMA who don't really want to be on the ground, have such good sprawls now a days.

Again, Brock Lesnar could make it given the right direction and dedication. Kurt Angle at this point in his life (the more and more I'm thinking) could not period.

Exactly. Angle is nearly 40, 11 years out of competitive action and has severe back, neck and arm injuries. You can't go into MMA fights now with novacane shots in the neck. Lesnar has nowhere near the injuries, a very good wrestling background (obviously nowhere near Kurt's) but his size, natural strength and his last 2 years learning everything he could in MMA is going to help big time. Matt Hughes and Pat Miletich are already singing his praises and Hughes especially has absolutely no need to do so.

[Destor]

I think he'd struggle to take Liddell down. He struggled with Daniel Puder and Puder wasn't meant to be fighting back. I'd hate to imagine him trying to take Liddell down with his sprawl and hand power. Actually, I'd be shocked if he lasted 2 rounds with Liddell.That Puder shit isn't even caprable. When a guy shoots on you, you aren't even prepared. You're in there working with a guy, relaxed as can be. A guy shoot on you it might as well be you walking down the street with a blind fold on, you just wont be ready. Especially if the guy actually know what he's doing. Kurt ANgle actually KNOWING that Puderis coming for him...I don't think it would go down the same way. I'd pay to see it though.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Kurt Angle is not the olympic calibur wrestler he was in 1996. I promise. He hasn't wrestled competitively since 96. I have a HUGE respect for what he was to wrestling because I wrestled before I did MMA, but he's not that guy anymore.

In 96 he would have wrestler circles around everyone, Kurt Angle in 2007 is a shell of what he was in 96 and I would say Randy would out wrestle him... Hell, Matt Hughes would eat Kurt . And he couldn't even ground Chuck.

[Rob]

And you don't think an Olmypic Gold medalist is going to out do you? I mean clearly it takes a greater athlete to be an Olympic Gold medalist in the iron man sport that is wrestlign than it does to be an indy MMA guy, yes? (If you say no you need to drop the ego,) so why can't Kurt adapt well in 6 months? It's not like they would actuall put him in there with top guys anyhow. It would be two years (if ever,) until he finnaly saw Main Event level talent. UFC (and MMA ingeneral) have some very shitty fighters. Kurt can handle those guys, and with an uncertain invewstment like Angle those are the kinds of guys he would face.

But agian, I've never seen Kurt fight and I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt. I am in no way implying that he would be some sort of unstoppable Juggarnaut. Maybe he is, I dunno, unlikley. But maybe. Maybe he's a giant bitch and get laid out in one blow. Unlikely, but maybe. Wat I'm saying is I'm not gonna shit on a guy that I honstly can only speculate one way or another.

I'll say this, I would LOVE to find out.

Nobody is really shitting on him. They are just stating the facts. His athletic ability is awesome. His wrestling is second to none and his will power is on another level. However, his injuries and age are huge factors and guys have lost MMA fights who were just as good in various other martial arts as Kurt is in wrestling. Francois Botha and Shannon Briggs were world boxing champions and they did nothing in MMA.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Frankly, mentioning Kurt's gold medal is a moot point at this point in his life if we're talking about him going into MMA. Congrats on the medal but 11 years later it doesn't mean shit. You proved you were great, were is different than are.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Nobody is really shitting on him. They are just stating the facts. His athletic ability is awesome. His wrestling is second to none and his will power is on another level. However, his injuries and age are huge factors and guys have lost MMA fights who were just as good in various other martial arts as Kurt is in wrestling. Francois Botha and Shannon Briggs were world boxing champions and they did nothing in MMA.

His wrestling isn't that great though anymore, not eleven years after the fact. Honestly, I love Kurt. I was one of his biggest fans through out his legit wrestling carear because I was a wrestler. More respect for him, than probably most anyone on this board in that regard, unless they've wrestled.

But a gold medal 11 years ago does not make you good now. And I think that's the point most are missing. Rob's got it, but some seem to overlook that.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Also, do you really think, with Dana White's ego, he would put Kurt Angle in the cage with anyone but a top name? Fuck no, he'd want to embarass Kurt.

[Rob]

That Puder shit isn't even caprable. When a guy shoots on you, you aren't even prepared. You're in there working with a guy, relaxed as can be. A guy shoot on you it might as well be you walking down the street with a blind fold on, you just wont be ready. Especially if the guy actually know what he's doing. Kurt ANgle actually KNOWING that Puderis coming for him...I don't think it would go down the same way. I'd pay to see it though.

Are you insane? If Kurt Angle seriously thought Danny Puder would not defend himself then he is a fucking moron. And it wasn't no amateur contest either because he near about fucking killed the poor lad who was in the ring before Puder.

He got offered over $1 million to fight Puder for real and he turned it down. UFC still has interest in him but I know for an absolute FACT that Strike Force and EliteXC would sign the fight tomorrow if he would do it. And Dana White and Daniel Puder also comfirmed both men had contracts faxed to them for this fight and Angle never signed his. Puder is still signed to this day for an open fight.

And Angle is going around running his mouth saying he'd fight for free. Yeah he'd turn down 7 figrues to fight for free? He is full of shit.

[McLegend]

He would fight Puder. Or if they wanted more then 1 fight they would set him up with like a jobber who he would have a chance of beating then he would go fight Puder.

Dana White likes making money more then he does embarassing people.

[Destor]

I'm not overlooking Kurts age. Serveral older guys kicked ass when everyone else said they wre past their prime, yeah it's a young mans sport, but Kurt wouldn't even be close to the first guy "past his prime" to prove all the nay-sayers wrong. I'm just not willing to count him out when all of his negitives has been overcome by someone at some point. And when you're talking about and all beast pure bread althlete the likes of a Kurt Angle I think it's best to see he aint got it to say he aint got it. Kurt is one of those guys who will be better in those situations. I've seen him do to much in the 15 some odd years (give or take) of following this guy.

[Rob]

Also, do you really think, with Dana White's ego, he would put Kurt Angle in the cage with anyone but a top name? Fuck no, he'd want to embarass Kurt.

Actually Dana would love Kurt to be a regular but the fact is he offered him a one fight deal for over $1 million to specifically fight Daniel Puder. Anything after that was another deal.

[Destor]

Are you insane? If Kurt Angle seriously thought Danny Puder would not defend himself then he is a fucking moron. And it wasn't no amateur contest either because he near about fucking killed the poor lad who was in the ring before Puder.

He got offered over $1 million to fight Puder for real and he turned it down. UFC still has interest in him but I know for an absolute FACT that Strike Force and EliteXC would sign the fight tomorrow if he would do it. And Dana White and Daniel Puder also comfirmed both men had contracts faxed to them for this fight and Angle never signed his. Puder is still signed to this day for an open fight.

And Angle is going around running his mouth saying he'd fight for free. Yeah he'd turn down 7 figrues to fight for free? He is full of shit.Dude what they were doing was riding the bull man. Most wrestlers do that before very show. It's nothing that every kid in training doesn't go through. Puder wasn't defendiong himself he was shooting. Hardly the samething.

As for the rest of that shit I could care less. I could give a fuck about drama.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I'm not saying you're over looking his age, because honestly I'd pick Randy Couture over half the UFC locker room and I think Randy is over than Kurt, but you guys keep mentioning that as a gold medalist he'd out wrestle guys, he would have in 96 but he wouldn't today.

[Rob]

He would fight Puder. Or if they wanted more then 1 fight they would set him up with like a jobber who he would have a chance of beating then he would go fight Puder.

Dana White likes making money more then he does embarassing people.

Puder only had 2 pro fights under his belt when they were going to sign the fight. How much experience (or lack of) does a "jobber" need?

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Actually Dana would love Kurt to be a regular but the fact is he offered him a one fight deal for over $1 million to specifically fight Daniel Puder. Anything after that was another deal.

I thought after Kurt didn't sign his match with Pudar that Dana got his whole, pick rather you want to wrestle or fight kick? I stand corrected if I'm wrong though.

That still doesn't change Kurt's standing though.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Puder only had 2 pro fights under his belt when they were going to sign the fight. How much experience (or lack of) does a "jobber" need?

Yeah, hell Daniel had less fights than the first (maybe second) guy who was given the boot on the original Ultimate Fighter, doesn't get much more inexperianced.

[McLegend]

Well thats why I said he would fight Puder right away, but I bet Angle could beat Frank Mir.

[McLegend]

:lol:

[McLegend]

I'm actually a big Frank Mir mark to :'(

[HeartBreakMan2k]

He turned it down with Dan was that inexperianced.

[Destor]

I'm not saying you're over looking his age, because honestly I'd pick Randy Couture over half the UFC locker room and I think Randy is over than Kurt, but you guys keep mentioning that as a gold medalist he'd out wrestle guys, he would have in 96 but he wouldn't today.I haven't seen him wrestle lately so I cant comment on how is at this moment because I don't know. What I can say is despite the fact my body is worn down from wrestling all these years I can still fight just as hard as I could 10 years ago, and Kurt is 10 times the man I am. While Kurt hasn't had a professional match in 10 years I doubt he hasn't kept his game up to some degree, surely not at the level it once was, but I have enough confindence ion him to say he hasn't lost it all together. Nothing 6 months of serious training could remedy for a guy like Angle.