I'm going to get flamed for this one, but fuck you.

[BigDaddyCool]

Question-

Was dying the best thing Eddie Guerrero do for his legacy?

[Übermensch]

The best thing he did for his legacy was create it with his fantastic career.

His death certainly helped to instantly glorify it however.

[BigDaddyCool]

Interesting point. But if he was still alive, would you still think he has a fantiastic career, or simply a good career?

[The One]

Guerrero wouldn't have been nearly as big of a legend had he lived out a normal and full life. He would have kind of been one of those passing great talents who in 20 years people would say where under rated.

[The One]

Sounds harsh, but fuck you, it's the truth.

[BigDaddyCool]

Sounds harsh, but fuck you, it's the truth.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

[BigDaddyCool]

BTW, guess why I call him St. Guerrero.

[The One]

This better be good...

[BigDaddyCool]

This better be good...

Sarcasm, duh.

[St. Jimmy]

BDC has balls the size of GRAPEFRUITS. Good post though, can't disagree.

[The One]

I was expecting better. Like his final miricle being that he figured out how to become more over the day after you can never wrestle again...

[Jeritron]

Yes. It completely was, and it doesn't take anything away from him. Death is big for anyones legacy, especially when its untimely.

hate to bring it up in here, but look at Anna Nicole Smith for christ sakes. It's just like Marilyn Monroe.

Death is huge for the legacy of any form of celebrity. Look at Cobain, Jim Morrison, Hendrix or Tupac.

Eddie Guerrero was a legend regardles, but in death he was a bigger one.

[St. Jimmy]

Dying before you expedite your legacy is definetly turning a bad situation into a good one. People like Hogan, Savage, Warrior (lol), and Bret Hart who completely shit all over there legacy because of there own egos would be much more respected than they are now. Eddie sadly I think would have eventually joined that list.

[The One]

But the point is, Eddie was never anywhere near the likes of Hogan, Savage, Hart, or even a Warrior before his death. His death MADE him a legend. Before that, he was a charismatic wrestler who had a very good career. Him dying made him a legend.

[St. Jimmy]

But the point is, Eddie was never anywhere near the likes of Hogan, Savage, Hart, or even a Warrior before his death. His death MADE him a legend. Before that, he was a charismatic wrestler who had a very good career. Him dying made him a legend.

Right, completely right. I'm just saying that EVENTUALLY he would have ascended up into that list of wrestlers with amazing legacies on his own, then he would've eventually shit on it. His death made him what he is now, but I think eventually he made have made it up that ladder on his own - just when he did, he wouldn't know when to hang it up.

[The One]

Oh, see personally, I never saw him making it to that point of "Legend." I saw him having a very productive career, but kind of going the way of Chris Jericho. Another person who was incredible and is a personal favorite of mine, but never quite a legend. Benoit is another one...

[Jeritron]

It works both ways I think. Yes his death helped his legacy, and cut out the "fall" that inevitably comes whether it be due to controllable circumstances or just age.
For those non-wrestling examples I gave, death was huge just as it was for Eddie in making them legendary.

But it only does so much. The legend has to be in the making already because people certainly aren't chanting the names of lesser wrestlers who've died like they do for Eddie or even Owen.

Joe Schmo in music isn't gonna die and have as many posters and record sales as say, Tupac.

But you look at the situation with someone like them (Doors, Nirvana) and you realize that those bands would be remembered, but were fading away into obscurity. They'd be legendary in a different way, and just fade away.

But Eddie dies in his peak, prematurely and people miss what could have been and see it as a tragedy (even though he may have peaked and fizzled out).
It's kind of the 'don't know what you got til its gone' mentality, and people associate even higher greatness with someone who was taken early. They become almost a martyr for their art and fanbase, and become an instant legend as opposed to an eventual one.

[BigDaddyCool]

Right, completely right. I'm just saying that EVENTUALLY he would have ascended up into that list of wrestlers with amazing legacies on his own, then he would've eventually shit on it. His death made him what he is now, but I think eventually he made have made it up that ladder on his own - just when he did, he wouldn't know when to hang it up.

I'm not sure he would have, I don't believe he had the tools. He would have been on the level of Mick Foley if anything. He would have had a few honorary title runs, a few note worthy matches, but never a true legend. But him dying leaves all this up to imagination. It is much sexier to leave something up to the imagination.

[BigDaddyCool]

Oh, see personally, I never saw him making it to that point of "Legend." I saw him having a very productive career, but kind of going the way of Chris Jericho. Another person who was incredible and is a personal favorite of mine, but never quite a legend. Benoit is another one...

Hey, quiet stealing my ideas.

[BigDaddyCool]

Second question...is Eddie a bigger "martyr" than Owen?

[Indifferent Clox]

Before Eddie died I considered him up there with Benoit. And I consider Benoit I definetly consider Benoit a legend. I consider them up there with Angle almost.

[Jeritron]

With that, I'm going to say yes.
Owen's death isn't any less sad or tragic. But to be honest, Owen was being shit on in his role with the company. He died in a gimmick he thought was stupid and he was just looking forward to retirement. Also, as big of a legend as Owen Hart is with us he wasn't a main eventer and huge crowd favorite to the extent of Eddie.

Eddie died days before a title run, and right after he had been a top guy. He also died in a hotel room. Owen died in a tragic accident, and to be honest the circumstances of Owen's death may have been bigger news than the death itself (I mean that with the most respect).

[BigDaddyCool]

Benoit a legend? What kind of legend? Blanding people into submission isn't legendary.

[BigDaddyCool]

With that, I'm going to say yes.
Owen's death isn't any less sad or tragic. But to be honest, Owen was being shit on in his role with the company. He died in a gimmick he thought was stupid and he was just looking forward to retirement. Also, as big of a legend as Owen Hart is with us he wasn't a main eventer and huge crowd favorite to the extent of Eddie.

Eddie died days before a title run, and right after he had been a top guy. He also died in a hotel room. Owen died in a tragic accident, and to be honest the circumstances of Owen's death may have been bigger news than the death itself (I mean that with the most respect).

So, ruinning your life makes you more of legend? Plus we can't be sure Eddie was going to be a champion again.

[Jeritron]

If Owen died in his hotel room, the night before Over the Edge, would it have been as big a story as it was? Or would it have been more like Brian Pillman's death?

I think a lot of what made Owen's death such a story was that it occured during a live PPV event by accident.

I don't mean any disrespect, I'm just proposing questions.

[Jeritron]

So, ruinning your life makes you more of legend? Plus we can't be sure Eddie was going to be a champion again.

That's not what I was saying at all.

[Übermensch]

I believe Eddie was booked to take the title off Batista for the day he died.

[Indifferent Clox]

Benoit is amazing in the ring. I am constantly entertained by him.

I'm a big technical wrestling fan though.

My top 5 of the last 5 years
I love guys like
Finlay
Regal
Guerrero
Benoit
Kurt Angle
Bryan Danielson

[Jeritron]

I believe Eddie was booked to take the title off Batista for the day he died.

Yes he was, but even if he wasn't it doesn't matter. He was still already a top guy which made the loss a bigger rift. It's not about whether it was his "fault" or not, or if Owen was less in control.

The question you asked is who was a bigger 'martyr'. Technically, none of them were a 'matyr'. A matyr dies for a cause. Matyr is a term used loosely and incorrectly all the time. But if I had to say so, Eddie would be a bigger one just because of where he was carreer-wise at the time of his death.

[Corkscrewed]

It works both ways I think. Yes his death helped his legacy, and cut out the "fall" that inevitably comes whether it be due to controllable circumstances or just age.
For those non-wrestling examples I gave, death was huge just as it was for Eddie in making them legendary.

But it only does so much. The legend has to be in the making already because people certainly aren't chanting the names of lesser wrestlers who've died like they do for Eddie or even Owen.

Joe Schmo in music isn't gonna die and have as many posters and record sales as say, Tupac.

But you look at the situation with someone like them (Doors, Nirvana) and you realize that those bands would be remembered, but were fading away into obscurity. They'd be legendary in a different way, and just fade away.

But Eddie dies in his peak, prematurely and people miss what could have been and see it as a tragedy (even though he may have peaked and fizzled out).
It's kind of the 'don't know what you got til its gone' mentality, and people associate even higher greatness with someone who was taken early. They become almost a martyr for their art and fanbase, and become an instant legend as opposed to an eventual one.

Amen to that. I agree complete but must spread more rep around.

[Jeritron]

I'll come knockin for that green dot

[Impact!]

Benoit is amazing in the ring. I am constantly entertained by him.

I'm a big technical wrestling fan though.

My top 5 of the last 5 years
I love guys like
Finlay
Regal
Guerrero
Benoit
Kurt Angle
Bryan Danielson
Was that supposed to be your top 5?

[Jeritron]

Whatever it is it was completely irrelevant to the topic at hand

[RP]

The best thing Eddie Guerrero did for his legacy was steroids.

[AdrianM]

Question-

Was dying the best thing Eddie Guerrero do for his legacy?

I completely dissagree. I personally think Eddie was about to get huge in wrestling. So many ppl I know who didn't care @ all about wrestling knew about Eddie Guerrero (due to the low-riders he drove in with).

The best thing Eddie Guerrero could have done for his legacy would have been to have continued wrestling for another 5 or10 years, been a multiple world champion and be truly remembered as one of the greatest wrestlers of all time

[addy2hotty]

I personally believe that his 'legacy' as such was already confirmed by his road back from the drugs etc.

If John Cena died tomorrow, do you think he'd have a legacy like Eddie Guerrero?

I would say probably no.

[Kane Knight]

Sounds harsh, but fuck you, it's the truth.

More or less.

[Flair Wooo]

I completely dissagree. I personally think Eddie was about to get huge in wrestling. So many ppl I know who didn't care @ all about wrestling knew about Eddie Guerrero (due to the low-riders he drove in with).

The best thing Eddie Guerrero could have done for his legacy would have been to have continued wrestling for another 5 or10 years, been a multiple world champion and be truly remembered as one of the greatest wrestlers of all time

Lol

[Kane Knight]

Honestly, though. Dying ahead of your time will take even the most mediocre celebrity and make them huge. It will take legit stars and make them legends.

Eddie could have acheived more in life. He could have acheived a lot more. But in death, the sky is now the limits. People will canonise him for all he could have been--no Wasted potential, no bad decisions, nothing.

In short, in death he's the greatest he can ever be. In life, he could have been a lot, but he wouldn't make this kind of impact without dying.

It's a tragedy, yes. But a huge part of starfucking is necrophilia.

[St. Jimmy]

So the point of this thread so far is that Beniot is terrible on the stick. :y:

[BigDaddyCool]

So the point of this thread so far is that Beniot is terrible on the stick. :y:

And annoying at best in the ring.

[Sting Fan]

I think he had a few more years in him and a couple more very entertaining years at the top.

I think there was even a chance however small that with the right foil he could have taken wrestling mainstream again. Eddies Lie Cheat and Steal mantra was really starting to go places. I dont know about the US but in New Zealand wrestling is a really cult thing, outside of little kids you will see very few if any WWE shirts.

What you see is the odd nostalgia nWo or WCW shirt but nothing new age, Eddie really started to bring things back mainstream here, Lie Cheat and Steal was out there and people I knew who hadnt watched wrestling since the height of the nWo were tuning in again and people who have enver followed wrestling knew the mantra. It was quite surprising to me.

That being said he was never going to be universally recognised as a legend the stature of a Hogan or a Savage. As many people have said his death just sort of left people thirsting for more of something they cant have.

I do disagree that he had nothing left to give though.

Also on a slightly side subject I think Benoit, Jericho, Angle, and Eddie will achieve legenday status as a group more than singularly because as long as you mention good wrestling from mid 90 through until 2005 and those names are just going to keep popping up. Japan, Mexico, ECW, WCW and WWF/E.

[Pinnacle Charisma]

I dont know Eddie was going to have another title run just after his death and that would have probally lead to him main eventing wm for the second time. And Eddie being Eddie he would have done a terrific job on it so he would have got another run int he works later as the top heel on smackdown.


Eddie - Two time word champ and two time wrestlemania headliner vs Eddie one time world champ and one time headliner


I know which one I would chose but if Eddie died 7 or 8 months later he would be an even bigger legend

[Kane Knight]

We don't know for a fact that Eddie was going to have another title run.

[Sting Fan]

Not for a fact no...

And I am not even going to point too the match he was scheduled for on SD but in all likliness with the top end talent shortage on SD at that point it was a pretty good bet that he would pick it up within a couple of months at least.