What are some of the problems facing the Wrestling World right now?

[FBI mark]

I have been watching the TPWW wrestling forums for some time now and have resisted the erge to post a thread. There have been numerous
topics that I have read, alot of re-treds like the montreal screw job (okay lets not go there) and more currently the state of wrestling.

I want to discuss the latter topic, the current state of pro-wrestling. First of all the term should be viewed as pro-wrestling and not sports entertainment. Sports entertainment is a vague term and the whole use of the word entertainment seems to create an animus towards wrestling tradition. This seems ironic since the WWE has a monopoly on wrestling and claims to promote the rich pro-wrestling heratige threw its 24/7 cable tv product.

Anyway, what are your views on the problems facing pro-wrestling these days?

What are some solutions towards fixing the state of pro-wrestling?

I believe one major problem lies in the innability for the creation of a strong mid-card, which in turn would likely lead to the healthy development of new stars. I believe wrestlers are pushed to fast, examples of this are Bobby Lashley, Randy Orton, and even the aformentoned Brock Lesnar. Also the art of psychology is lost dew to shorter matches and more spotfests.The remedy, longer matches ,better booking,and limited high spots. [/CAnyway what does everyone else have to say on this topic?

[Jeritron]

I think you kinda answered it yourself man, theres a lot more problems at hand than can be adressed with one solution or even one thread. Theres been a wealth of problems over the past 5 or 6 years in professional wrestling, some bad luck and some bad decisions. And a lot of blown things.

You can't really adress the state of things with one post or even discussion, theres just too much. Mostly we talk about shit thats problematic and things that were messed up, being messed up, and are probably going to be messed up, in specific threads and topics.

And even though you're disenchanted, don't buy into TNA. They've got their own world of problems too.

[Jeritron]

But yea, pushing talent too soon and the lack of a proper mid card is big. I would say missing the boat with talent, while overloading the boat with other talent has been a big problem.

[Kane Knight]

The only real problem is that nobody knows what to do. Between egoes, Vince not really being a genius, and a lack of direction, a boring product is put out.

That's all. Everything boils down to that./

[Stickman]

There's no reason to put out better stuff. People still go to the shows and people still watch. Throw in the fact there's 3 WWE shows a week (at least) and 12-14 PPV's a year, there's only so much you can do. There is a creative slump, but I feel that's due to lack of competition, and TNA is not really competition.

[Kane Knight]

There's no reason to put out better stuff. People still go to the shows and people still watch. Throw in the fact there's 3 WWE shows a week (at least) and 12-14 PPV's a year, there's only so much you can do. There is a creative slump, but I feel that's due to lack of competition, and TNA is not really competition.

Yeah, I'd definitely list "smaller arenas needed" and "lower ratings" as among the reasons there's no reason to come up with something better.

[Stickman]

People are still eating up their shit, so why change?

[Kane Knight]

Fewer people are eating up their shit.

Enough that is has impacted the way they do business and tour.

In fact, they've already had to change to accomodate.

Think about it for a second or two.

[Stickman]

I dont' think they're too concerned. They're still making millions so why change? Until there's reason to change it won't. Until the "Next One" comes along we're going to be fed this crap.

[Kane Knight]

Except they have already had to change to adapt to their new circumstances, and are clearly trying to change. I think you're missing the obvious here, as this'll be the third time I've said roughly the same thing.

[Fox]

Cool Spawn poster.

[Goulet]

I dont' think they're too concerned. They're still making millions so why change? Until there's reason to change it won't. Until the "Next One" comes along we're going to be fed this crap.
Nobody does shitty business on purpose, so they're still making millions? So what? they could be making millions more if they had a better product, they just can't cause they're incompetant (sp?) Who in their right mind puts out garbage on purpose?

[Kane Knight]

Apparently, Vince is content with less money.

[Tombstone275]

Cool Spawn poster.
Thanks

[Kane Knight]

Stop posting that sig. You've already had a mod tell you that.

[Kane Knight]

Which part of that was difficult to understand, meester sock?

[Stickman]

Cuz Vince needs to save up for his retirement? I just don't think they care too much. They have a business to run, their business is making them millions, why put more effort in? I'm sure they realise the downcycle right now, but aren't forced to put a better product out. When televised events are empty, when nobody's buying their shit, that's when they'll care. They put out great dvds because they know those are cash cows. Why put effort into the current product when there's nobody worth a damn in the ring.

I dont' get the "OMG WWE NEEDZ TO CHANGE" they don't need to do anything. Money's not much of an issue.

[Goulet]

Cuz Vince needs to save up for his retirement? I just don't think they care too much. They have a business to run, their business is making them millions, why put more effort in? I'm sure they realise the downcycle right now, but aren't forced to put a better product out. When televised events are empty, when nobody's buying their shit, that's when they'll care. They put out great dvds because they know those are cash cows. Why put effort into the current product when there's nobody worth a damn in the ring.

I dont' get the "OMG WWE NEEDZ TO CHANGE" they don't need to do anything. Money's not much of an issue.
So you honestly think they aren't trying or they don't care? Why would they launch a 3rd brand if they didn't care? They are grasping at straws, launching ECW and re-uniting DX and shit to try and bring in more money and ratings, they just are out of touch with their audience.

[Londoner]

What are some of the problems? Well, here's the biggest one: Vince McMahon.

[Stickman]

They obvously do care, but if they really really cared they would put real effort into it and hire the right people. They seem to half ass things.

Plus, rehashing DX and ECW doesnt' really have anything to do with caring about the product. They just rehashed old ideas hoping to make a quick buck. If they cared, they would have done something original. If they cared ECW would be..ECW not whatever the fuck it is.

[Kane Knight]

So you honestly think they aren't trying or they don't care? Why would they launch a 3rd brand if they didn't care? They are grasping at straws, launching ECW and re-uniting DX and shit to try and bring in more money and ratings, they just are out of touch with their audience.

I was going to respond to Stickman, then saw this.

You covered it far more succinct than I could have.

[Kane Knight]

They obvously do care, but if they really really cared they would put real effort into it and hire the right people. They seem to half ass things.

That's assuming a logic they simply don't posses. It's presumptive at best, and most likely flat-out WRONG.

[M-A-G]

This is going to sound rude and all but if you've been reading these forums, you'll know there's a topic like this being posted like every week. Maybe I subconsciously WANTED to be rude. Perish the thought.

[FBI mark]

What are some of the problems? Well, here's the biggest one: Vince McMahon.

I was hard pressed to decide who to respond to first,until you hit the nail on the proverbial head.In fact when thinking of things that are negatively affecting pro-wrestling one has to conclude Vinnie Mac as a huge culprit.

All of you have made some excellent statements and I am pleased I got so many responses from my very first thread.:)

I want to take the point of Vince McMahon and alot of points some of you made about the financial success of the WWE product.I believe this is what is killing traditional wrestling for the rest of us smarks(with markish intent.) It is damn true that the WWE has a mediocore yet multi-million dollar sex machine(god rest the soul of James Brown.)This mixture is literally killing what really hooked me into pro-wrestling in the first place.I guess my displeasure with the WWE and wrestling in general has made me really pissed off!I will try to narrow my future topics next time and pick one negative(or positive)aspect to discuss.

Once again thanks to all of you who responded to this thread!

[The Optimist]

The only real problem is that nobody knows what to do. Between egoes, Vince not really being a genius, and a lack of direction, a boring product is put out.

That's all. Everything boils down to that./
Basically the most true in my opinion.

Add to that the point of monopoly and we have a winner. WWE has the best writers, or at least better writers than anyone near them ratings wise, and has all the best wrestlers. There can be no competition, it's just impossible right now. The whole triple brand fiasco has created an enviroment where WWE can justify having three times the talent and employing three times as many people as a normal federation of its magnitude. It just cripples anyone trying to come up and challenge them.

[FBI mark]

You are so right about the monopoly that Vince f'n Mcmahon owns,making Vince a huge culprit in screwing wrestling in terms of competition.Kane Kight was exactly right in pointing out Vince Mcmahons erronious claim of being a promoting genius.

I believe it is time fot Vince to retire and turn over his product to his son Shane.Though idealy I would love it if Heyman had total control creatively of the entire WWE.Then again even Heyman might not be enough,in fact his genius may be tapped out.I don't really know who or whom can reshape wrestling and bring life back into it.However, I know someone or something has to do it.
I have some ideas of where I could see wrestling going,but the WWE is either going to be the catalyst for change or just drive wrestling into the dirt.Frankly I see the WWE really heading for disater,which might not be a bad thing.

[Kane Knight]

It's not just Vince. For years, people fellated him as one. And they said it, and I honestly think it's where Vinny got the idea in the first place. I'm sure he had an ego, but I doubt if he hadn't been called brilliant so many times by the media for his choice of roles, he wouldn't be half of where he is today on his whole ego trip. This is just too fucking much, really.

I'm not saying wee'd all be sunshine and roses if this hadn't happened, but...

Anyway, I think there's everything we need for good wrestling. I just don't think we'll see it come together. Mostly because Vince doesn't get it, and as long as the head of the number one company (No, not ECW) doesn't get it, wrestling won't.

I'd love to see Heyman book for anyone with a lot of money. It just won't happen. I doubt Vince will let him go while there's even the remotest chance TNA can compete with even ECWWE.

[The Optimist]

I remember The Critic and I were talking about Ted Turner or even Donald Trump buying TNA, then sticking in Paul Heyman as working booker. If we thought that it would ever happen we would have marked out right then and there.

[Kane Knight]

People have been suggesting Turner/Heyman for years.

[Jeritron]

Mark Cuban's money and ownership/Paul Heyman full creative control

[Outsider]

The catalyst for change will come from competition. Sooner or later there is going to be a wrestling brand that gets noticed, gets a good TV deal and a bit of investment and start being able to compete with the WWE. It may be TNA. TNA have potential and a good roster. If they had the right creative direction and a bit of intellegence they could start to shake things up. Could be something else.

The more Vince wastes his time and money with roided up freaks like Lashley and Batista, the more the real wrestling talent has time to develop in companies that will use them correctly. The WWE could hire pretty much anyone they want. But they're letting all the competition keep the cream of the crop. That just gives the competition something to use and I hope can one day lead to a situation where fans have a geninue choice between two good wrestling products.

[Kane Knight]

The catalyst for change will come from competition. Sooner or later there is going to be a wrestling brand that gets noticed, gets a good TV deal and a bit of investment and start being able to compete with the WWE. It may be TNA. TNA have potential and a good roster. If they had the right creative direction and a bit of intellegence they could start to shake things up. Could be something else.

The more Vince wastes his time and money with roided up freaks like Lashley and Batista, the more the real wrestling talent has time to develop in companies that will use them correctly. The WWE could hire pretty much anyone they want. But they're letting all the competition keep the cream of the crop. That just gives the competition something to use and I hope can one day lead to a situation where fans have a geninue choice between two good wrestling products.

I'm sorry, but that's horribly naïve.

[Outsider]

I'm sorry, but that's horribly naïve.

I prefer the term 'hopeful'!

[Kane Knight]

Okay, the interview I'm supposed to do is postponed another 10 minutes, so I assume I can handle elaborating now:

If there is a catylyst for good programming, it will come externally, but that requires some things to happen.


There has to be an overall interest in wrestling. Take TNA for example. Despite its "cream of the crop," it has failed to become a viable and large wrestling organisation. Part of this is because they suck at making watchable shows, and part is because there isn't a huge market for wrestling.
The talent needs to be in the right place at the right time. While IVW may have awesome people, RoH may have awesome people, that's not where the TV deals are at, so they're not getting exposure.
Vince has to decide to change his style of booking. Remember, he's tried to change the wrestling world in reaction to poor ratings, and it's gotten us Batista and Lashley. It's naïve to think that he'd see competition and suddenly decide to book well just because.
Once Vince realises he needs to take action, and decides to do so, he needs to actually find people who will do that. With the recent push of Nickelodeon and Science Fiction writers or whatever, Vince has been altering the company in ways that will make it difficult to do so. That, of course, is assuming he just doesn't decide to bring back Austin and Hogan some someone.
Austin and Hogan. Vince's solution is to throw stars at the problem. This works to mixed results. An Austin appearance will spike ratings, and even Hogan still will do a little, but longterm, it changes nothing. Especially when there's nothing to stick around for.
If he tries these and start losing, you might ask, won't he try the right thing? Maybe. Remember, the Austin thing clicking was luck. The Hogan thing clicking was luck. Vince isn't really all that good a booker, and he nearly killed the company before he made it big. If he was truly the genius he thinks he is, Cena would have been getting Austin-like pops by now, not "pretty big" pops followed by mixed reactions followed by the people booing him leaving and taking their ratings with them. ECW would be successful, rather than having its house shows cancelled, its schedule consolidated, and its champion a guy who (While I like him and see potential) isn't ready for any title that entitles him to the ME scene.Did I miss anything?

[Stickman]

Even during the great times, there was utter shit on the shows. We complain about seeing hte top guys getting 3-4 appearances a show, well Austin and the Rock got 3 segments a show. "Blood" falling from the ceiling onto Austin was quite cheesy. The big bossman returning as Vince's lacky. The Godfather and his hos. The list goes on. The difference then and now was a "credible" main event scene and a decent top mid card. If we had an Austin or Rock right now we'd be happier.

[Indifferent Clox]

Great post. I've adressed this in my article, which reminds me it's time to write this weeks article!

[Goulet]

Even during the great times, there was utter shit on the shows. We complain about seeing hte top guys getting 3-4 appearances a show, well Austin and the Rock got 3 segments a show. "Blood" falling from the ceiling onto Austin was quite cheesy. The big bossman returning as Vince's lacky. The Godfather and his hos. The list goes on. The difference then and now was a "credible" main event scene and a decent top mid card. If we had an Austin or Rock right now we'd be happier.

I think the difference probably is the 5-10 years it's been since then... I didn't find any of it all that cheesy, but I was younger then and maybe I was more easily amused :-\

[Kane Knight]

I think the difference probably is the 5-10 years it's been since then... I didn't find any of it all that cheesy, but I was younger then and maybe I was more easily amused :-\

Raining blood was cheesy. Most of the cheese though, was actually entertaining. And the show was entertaining, even as they started weeding out the cheese. I mean, for a while, the only real comedy gimmick was the Hurricane. Even the Undertaker was scaled back.

Stickman's right, though. We need a midcard and some real main eventers. We also need the multiple segment focuses to go on those folks, and leave the filler as, well...Filler. And we need some excitement. The Rock laid down. Even Triple H laid down. Foley Laid down. We had a lot of stars who would give and take, and everything looked better for it. It was an era where Doug Basham really could have felt like a hopeful for the title...You know, before HHH stiffed him....:shifty:

It also wouldn't hurt to have a few Epic rivalries. Taker/Kane, Taker/Austin, Taker/Big Show, Taker Mankind, Taker/DX...

...Okay, Undertaker was involved in a lot of exciting matches. There are others, I was just looking to be a smartass.

[the Illusionist]

The only real problem is that nobody knows what to do. Between egoes, Vince not really being a genius, and a lack of direction, a boring product is put out.

That's all. Everything boils down to that./

yet with you not really being a genius, the conversation continues.

[the Illusionist]

I dont' think they're too concerned. They're still making millions so why change? Until there's reason to change it won't. Until the "Next One" comes along we're going to be fed this crap.

See, WWE keeps treating their stars like crap, and TNA is glorifying superstars from others promotions. So maybe until the "Next One" leaves, there might be some change.

[Kane Knight]

yet with you not really being a genius, the conversation continues.

That would be such a sweet burn if....


I wasn't a genius
The guy criticising my intelligence wasn't a member of the One Extra Chromosone club.