"DX Member, Shawn Michaels"

[NeanderCarl]

I've kinda mentioned it in a few posts here and there, but am I the only one who feels that by being associated with the DX name heading into WrestleMania, Shawn Michaels really comes across as a weak challenger?

I mean, it's strange because he has been a headline solo act for well over a decade, yet seeing him in the green and black gear, with the DX Band music and TitanTron, and even being announced on the way to the ring as "DX Member, Shawn Michaels".... it all makes him come across as one half of a tag team. Since when has one half of a tag team ever challenged for the WWE title at a WrestleMania. An active, ongoing, regular tag team I mean, of course.

There can only be one of three reasons for keeping DX alive (with HBK wearing all the gear, coming out to the DX music and video and being announced as "DX member...", shilling the DVDs etc):

i) so Triple H can keep getting a nice paycheck while he's sat on the sidelines

ii) so Triple H can turn heel on his return, and betray HBK who kept DX alive for months only to have it thrown back in his face

iii) so the group stays hot for when Triple H returns.

All of those options revolve around the same person: Triple H. The man who isn't even active at the moment, for fucks sake.

This does not benefit Shawn Michaels (who apparently dislikes the DX angle anyway), it does not benefit WrestleMania (which is traditionally WWE's biggest money-spinning event of the year and thus all promotional activities, storylines and focus should be directed towards it at this time of year), and it will only serve to benefit WWE (if it even does) many months down the line, when the damage to both Shawn and WrestleMania has already been done.

With the "one half of DX" label attached, Michaels is made to look weak. In fact, to newer WWE marks, he is probably considered the weak link of DX anyway. That's no way to build up a credible main event for WrestleMania.

It may only be the tiniest minutiae in the grand scheme of creating a main event program, but often it's the little touches that make all the difference.

[NeanderCarl]

I know it's not exactly the same, because Michaels has been a solo star and champion in the past, but would you have watched WrestleMania VII if the main event was Hulk Hogan vs Jerry Saggs?

Or WrestleMania X if Yokozuna had defended the gold against Quebecer Pierre?

Hows abouts WrestleMania 15, Steve Austin vs Headbanger Thrasher?

WrestleMania VIII, Ric Flair vs Kato.

Okay, you get the idea with that....

[El Fangel]

I see your point, but really has WWE done anything that makes sense, or made us happy lately?

[NeanderCarl]

I see your point, but really has WWE done anything that makes sense, or made us happy lately?

You could use that comeback on every single thread on the forum.

[El Fangel]

I suppose your are right, I have that reply as a macro all I press is Alt+F4, and it autoposts it.

[Jeritron]

Shawn Michaels speaks for himself pretty much tho. He came out to DX music and in DX gear at Wrestlemania 14 and that was a huge main event for the company and him. He wasn't lost in the name.

I certainly see what you're saying tho. Keeping DX alive is certainly a financial decision. They want Cena vs DX Michaels, as opposed to just simply Cena vs Michaels.

As you said, the only problem I see with it is how he's made to look weak. I don't think hes as much made to look weaker by being a DX member as it is that he had taken the backburner for Triple H since they reformed. Because of Triple H's equal stature, and Shawn Michaels reduced attitude and personality, it has made hiim go from the leader of DX to just one half.

To me, that sucked. But I'm gonna have to go ahead and say that for the most part that wrong has been righted in the past 2 months since HHH went down and they've booked Shawn stronger, edgier and more angry. Hopefully they really have him go vicious and be a degenerate or at least hard edge in the next few weeks.


Shawn, god will forgive you its just entertainment. Be a degenerate, be an asshole, cuss, tell Cena to suck it, blow some coke. Just for a few weeks. Do it for the company, do it for the fans, do it for...The Rock!!

[Fignuts]

I am 100% positive it is so they can set up for a triple H heel turn.

Also, I dunno, I havn't got that stigma about him at all. Maybe its cause I feel so sure about the HHH heel turn and how well it could work. WHich actually means they probably won't do it.

[NeanderCarl]

The difference is that at WrestleMania 14, Michaels was the leader of a DX faction, a Ric Flair-like role. This time around he's half of a tag team. And a diluted, pale imitation of the original at that.

I'm not knocking Michaels' performances or attitude, though. Michaels is Michaels. It's the "DX member" intro and gear that keeps reminding me that he is still one half of a tag team, and it's a cynical money making ploy. Hard to turn off and just enjoy Michaels' work when he's such a corporate whore nowadays.

[Jeritron]

I'm just gonna be disgusted if Shawn wrestles his heart out (obviously will) and Cena goes over. Shawn will carry Cena to the match of his career. Even with Cena, nothings gonna stop Shawn from having the match of the night. Its Wrestlemania.

The problem is, if Taker goes over which I think he should, you know that in the next title match that Cenas gonna retain. They're not going to have both their golden boys job the title over to their veterans.
Thats why I support the Edge swirve. You put taker over, then put Edge over him. That way you have a young heel win, and a veteran face win. sigh

[NeanderCarl]

I recall that the, uh, "rumours" doing the rounds when DX first reformed was that Triple H wanted to turn face for the "rest of his career".

Which was never going to happen, anyway, but Trips is going to be a sympathetic figure when he gets back from injury, plus the word is that Triple H will not be able to work a full-time schedule anymore thanks to this latest injury.

In fact, some reports say that it is questionable if Triple H will ever return (I'm calling bullshit on that one), but if there IS any question, they really should end DX right now.

[Jeritron]

The difference is that at WrestleMania 14, Michaels was the leader of a DX faction, a Ric Flair-like role. This time around he's half of a tag team. And a diluted, pale imitation of the original at that

yea I def agree with that, pretty much said the same thing in my above post

[Funky Fly]

You guys are forgetting the most basic reason of all: money.

They are pushing this DVD (which was no doubt in the works before HHH got injured). They have to keep the DX name out there to promote it, simple as that. Also, they can push all the DX merchandise they can while still pushing HBK's solo shirts.

DX is a potential goldmine, whether HBK goes it alone or not, that's why it's not going away.

[El Fangel]

I recall that the, uh, "rumours" doing the rounds when DX first reformed was that Triple H wanted to turn face for the "rest of his career".

Which was never going to happen, anyway, but Trips is going to be a sympathetic figure when he gets back from injury, plus the word is that Triple H will not be able to work a full-time schedule anymore thanks to this latest injury.

In fact, some reports say that it is questionable if Triple H will ever return (I'm calling bullshit on that one), but if there IS any question, they really should end DX right now.

Sounds like WWE is fucked over, not saying that Triple H was the mainpla... wait he WAS the mainplayer. Shit. I hope he returns as either heel or face he is a hell of an entertainer.

[Jeritron]

I said it was a purely financial decision in my post too.

[NeanderCarl]

Yeah but is Triple H the WWE's main guy because of his talent (which he does have, don't get me wrong) or because of his wife?

Nepotism is nothing new to wrestling, but people often overlook the fact that Vince McMahon has every reason to push HHH as his top guy, because he is the one guy on the roster least likely to ever walk out and leave him. So maybe it isn't all ego and Triple H's will, but maybe this big push is as much Vince serving himself as serving his son-in-law.

But take away the Stephanie factor, and there's no way Triple H should still be the focal point of WWE. He has been on top now for 9 years. Who has ever had such a prolonged run at the top of the company in the VKM years? He's nipping at Hogan's heels on that one, and Trips is nowhere near Hogan's league (in every aspect of the business bar the in-ring product).

Nobody has EVER had such a long push at or near the top of the card, with that sole exception of Hulk Hogan, and believe me it has never been because Triple H's sheer talent makes it impossible NOT to push him. In the ring, he stunk until 1998 when he modified his style and finally got a bit of charisma and got over. He improved until eventually he reached his peak as a performer in 2000.... His prime lasted for one year. That was 7 years ago. He has occasionally shown flashes of his former brilliance since then, but that is not enough. And he hasn't been a draw since 2002 either.

It's been said before, I'll say it again: Triple H is a good, sometimes great, performer but if he had never married Stephanie McMahon he would be mid-card or working elsewhere right about now.

[Fignuts]

Sounds like WWE is fucked over, not saying that Triple H was the mainpla... wait he WAS the mainplayer. Shit. I hope he returns as either heel or face he is a hell of an entertainer.

Agreed.

I don't think there is a wrestler in the world, who is better main event heel. Backstage politics or not, I don't give a damn, because there is no one else in wwe or tna who has as much talent in all the different aspects of the business.

[NeanderCarl]

That was responding to Fallen Angel's post, that wasn't just a random rant, by the way.

[NeanderCarl]

Of course it's a financial decision (and I bet Triple H had a hand in the decision to keep pushing it) but Shawn doesn't have to be adorned in the DX brand to sell the stuff. An ad here or there would suffice.

And the fact that it's all money money money is what turns me off to it. There was a time, before WWE went public (which was the biggest fuck-you-to-the-fans in wrestling history, in hindsight), when show quality came above money making, but now it is the other way round. Raw and SmackDown are basically 2 hour adverts for WWE products... PPVs, T-shirts, DVDs...

I realised there was trouble ahead when suddenly nearly every wrestler in the company started walking to the ring in their own T-shirts rather than in traditional ring wear... even Austin forsook his leather vest for a Stone Cold T-shirt at a WrestleMania once. The DX shilling gimmick, whilst meant to be funny, angers me that WWE is so blatant about shilling that they're turning it into an angle. All WWE cares about is money. I wish it was 1998 all over again, because all they really cared about then was ratings and putting on the best show, and guess what.... they probably sold more Steve Austin T-shirts back then than every T-shirt in the WWE put together today.

[Jeritron]

I will say, even though a shameless plug, the King Booker review of See No Evil promo was pretty rofl

[NeanderCarl]

I thought that was a pile of shite. That sort of hammy, unrealistic booking really kills SmackDown for me. Remember that Orton/Taker angle, where we were seeing through Orton's eyes? With the blood all over Cowboy Bob's head, and when Bob was talking with the Undertaker's voice? Hate that stuff.

Also hated the "Voices in Kane's head/May 19th" shit from last year, because WE COULD HEAR THE FUCKING VOICES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE INSIDE HIS HEAD. For fuck's SAKE.

Really pisses me off.

The Booker thing wasn't AS bad, but still....

[Jeritron]

I was rofl at Booker inserting himself into the movie, and his spoken review of it. I'm sorry if it was cheesy trash and a shameless plug, it was just too damn absurd and hilarious for me not to laugh.

[James Steele]

I was hoping when Shawn did the "The Showstopper is back" promo that we'd see "HBK" Shawn Michaels come out to "Sexy Boy". Personally, I think the DX shit will sell even without schilling it 24/7. Plus, HBK looks fucking stupid wearing DX sweatbands around his arms (even though everybody looks fucking stupid with sweatbands around their arms).

[NeanderCarl]

I watch Raw every week, rarely miss it. If it is on 51 weeks of the year, I probably watch at least 45 of them live. I rarely, if ever, watch SmackDown.... even if it is on while I am at home, doing nothing. I keep up with the goings on, and I watch the SmackDown only PPVs if they interest me or if they are free... but the show itself? I have no desire at all to watch it.

So, on a very rare occasion that SmackDown ends up on my screen, one of the first things I see is that Booker T skit. Booker played it for laughs, fair play to him. It was the "horror" aspect that made me cringe.

Now I, a self-professed hardcore wrestling fan who just told you I stay up until 4am watching Raw live every week, cringed and felt embarrassed watching the half hour of SmackDown I accidentally found on my TV last week. Imagine how a casual or non-fan would react to that scene? It was hokey, it was intelligence-insulting and was just more ammunition for the "wrestling sucks" crowd to throw at us fans. I'm just glad there was nobody in the room with me while it was on.

[El Fangel]

Nepotism is nothing new to wrestling, but people often overlook the fact that Vince McMahon has every reason to push Cena as his top guy, because he is the one guy on the roster least likely to ever walk out and divorce him.

[Kane Knight]

It's for a bad reason, but let's face it. IT doesn't hurt Michaels, because Michaels is too big a name,.

[Kane Knight]

I thought that was a pile of shite. That sort of hammy, unrealistic booking really kills SmackDown for me. Remember that Orton/Taker angle, where we were seeing through Orton's eyes? With the blood all over Cowboy Bob's head, and when Bob was talking with the Undertaker's voice? Hate that stuff.

Also hated the "Voices in Kane's head/May 19th" shit from last year, because WE COULD HEAR THE FUCKING VOICES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE INSIDE HIS HEAD. For fuck's SAKE.

Really pisses me off.

The Booker thing wasn't AS bad, but still....

May 19th was done by a real person and was really supposed to be happening. Remember that fake Kane? He was fucking around with the AV.

It was stupid but...Unrealistic? About as unrealistic as DX taking over the sound truck.

[St. Jimmy]

Michaels in 1998 = The Man
Michaels Now 2007 = Triple H's Lackee.

WTF. WWE booking is terrible.

[Stickman]

I'm kind of torn on this. It is a financail situation, an ad here and there won't sell as much as hearing that music and seeing the neon green. I have no problem with HBK in DX but they should just announce him as himself, and leave out the "DX member". The problem lies in the fact that it's just Shawn Michaels. It's not HBK, the show stopper, the main event, the icon. They need to build him up going into mania. He can keep the DX stuff but they need to focus more on him, than have goofy HHH lacky plugging their shit.

[XL]

So if they're keeping this DX thing going so that HHH can come back and possibly turn on HBK doesn't that mean that "DX" will be around for another 6 months or so?

So for 6 months Shawn Michaels will be "DX"? No new members! No old members! Just HBK on his own...being a stable.

Can't see that getting old any time soon!

[Kane Knight]

It's quite a brillaint payoff, eh XL?

[ChiefStubbs]

So if they're keeping this DX thing going so that HHH can come back and possibly turn on HBK doesn't that mean that "DX" will be around for another 6 months or so?

So for 6 months Shawn Michaels will be "DX"? No new members! No old members! Just HBK on his own...being a stable.

Can't see that getting old any time soon!
Hell, they may as well just call him "The Degenerate" Shawn Michaels.

[El Fangel]

It's quite a brillaint payoff, eh XFL?

[Shaved Monkey]

This is the way I see things going down. HBK will use the DX theme music up until WM where he wins the belt.

The next night on Raw, HBK will come to the ring with his old music, and this will be the subtle (or not) set up for the HHH/HBK feud down the road.

Only this time, I hope its HBK turning on HHH. Kinda like "You came on Raw after WM 14 and said I dropped the ball? Fuck you Hunter"

This came out much better in my head.

[Pepsi Man]

May 19th was done by a real person and was really supposed to be happening. Remember that fake Kane? He was fucking around with the AV.

It was stupid but...Unrealistic? About as unrealistic as DX taking over the sound truck.
Was this ever revealed? I'm not looking to "call you out" on this or anything, but I don't recall it ever being made at all clear that it was the second Kane that was saying all that stuff to the original Kane, and that whole thing was just something that always bothered me, much like the Orton thing that Carl mentioned.

[addy2hotty]

I reckon they are gonna swerve you all at Mania and have Michaels come out inside a giant heart, and then he 'breaks' through it while wearing a crown and cloak.

Cena will come down with a gun and call himself Marshall before kneecapping Howard Finkel.

[Kane Knight]

Was this ever revealed? I'm not looking to "call you out" on this or anything, but I don't recall it ever being made at all clear that it was the second Kane that was saying all that stuff to the original Kane, and that whole thing was just something that always bothered me, much like the Orton thing that Carl mentioned.

That he was messing with him? Even before fake Kane showed up, Kane was talking about "him," the guy who was behind it. Did they ever specifically say "he tapped the PA system to mess with me?" No. But they did make it relatively clear it wasn't in his head, and I just extrapolated that one specific detail.

[Pepsi Man]

That he was messing with him? Even before fake Kane showed up, Kane was talking about "him," the guy who was behind it. Did they ever specifically say "he tapped the PA system to mess with me?" No. But they did make it relatively clear it wasn't in his head, and I just extrapolated that one specific detail.
That's what I was wondering, although that makes enough sense.

I reckon they are gonna swerve you all at Mania and have Michaels come out inside a giant heart, and then he 'breaks' through it while wearing a crown and cloak.

Cena will come down with a gun and call himself Marshall before kneecapping Howard Finkel.
...who will have turned on Cena and rejoined DX on the previous Raw. :shifty:

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, just clarifying.

[starfox8500]

*Talking on the phone to Vince:
"No I TOTALLY understand your logic and booking."
*Shakes head rapidly"

[NeanderCarl]

Thing with the fake Kane (don't you love the way these topics veer off on such random tangents??) that I was most specifically thinking of when I posted my last comment was the very first time, when we saw him clutching his head in the corridor whilst hearing the voices in his head.

Later incidents, such as the voices over the PA, made a bit more sense - you could just about come up with an explanation - but the first week or two of build up was dire.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Funky Fly got it right first: money is the issue here. The WWE wants to sell DX clothing, and they want the DVD to sell. It's funny, because they could do it anyway. I mean, does Shawn Michaels wrestling as "DX Member, Shawn Michaels" make you want to purchase the DVD?

I think building up Shawn Michaels, and as NeaderCarl said, putting on a good show would be the real way to make money. I'd personally rather see him become the old HBK, only using the DX theme for special occasions. No Way Out should have been "Sexy Boy", the SmackDown! before seemed to be fitting of the DX theme. The WWE could get creative and have him use both themes.

They could also do the right thing and turn DX into a real stable. When Triple H took over leadership of DX, it lead to interesting angles. A lot of people are just going to roll their eyes at my suggestion, because I am a huge mark of the guys in it, but Shawn Michaels, Val Venis, Paul London, Brian Kendrick and Ashley Massaro would make a pretty top-notch DX. Val Venis is a fucking porn star. He was based off the "Ravishing" Rick Rude character, who was in DX for a while. Venis as the mid-card singles wrestler makes sense. Paul London and Brian Kendrick were trained in Michaels' school, are young up-and-comers, and being members of DX could get them over. With them comes Ashley Massaro who is the random T&A, and she's appearing in Playboy.

If you don't want Val Venis because he's "too Alienoidy", just have Idol Stevens or Rob Conway get the role. Yes, both are Alienoidy, but I can't think of anyone better at this stage.

So yeah, I think they should either have Shawn Michaels turn "Sexy Boy", or have him start up another incarnation of DX. Oh, and he won't beat Cena. Shawn Michaels is just there to carry Cena to a good match. Cena is still undefeated at WrestleMania, and there is money there somewhere. I think the best we can hope for is a Cena heel turn. HBK could win the WWE Championship closer to Summerslam, when Triple H is able to return, turn heel ("Triple H, why did you hit your fellow DX member with a sledgehammer upon your return?" "Why? Because I felt like it!") and challenge HBK heading into Summerslam.

[NeanderCarl]

And as for Michaels... WWE can do a masterful job of building a character up, or establishing a new twist on an old character, when they're fully behind it. Look at how, over the years, they've made everyone forget about Rocky Maivia, Sparky Plugg, The Sultan, Justin Hawk Bradshaw, The Ringmaster - they are masters of reinvention, when the creative juices are fully flowing.

As Stickman says, Shawn Michaels (as in MAIN EVENTER Shawn Michaels) has a character: 'The Heartbreak Kid/Showstopper/Main Event/Icon That Can Still Go'. For a little while there, they went for some nostalgia and some cheap pops, and reinvented Shawn and Trips as the new DX: cheesy, fun-loving, skit-partaking, innuendo-spouting, merchandise-shilling upper mid-card novelty attractions.

Which was fine, because the main event scene was getting some fresh blood injected into it - for better or worse - and Cena was getting the big push.

But now that WrestleMania is rolling around, WWE decides to put Cena in the ring with one of the aforementioned mid-card novelty tag team act. Which, again, is fine because either one of those two is over as a solo act, and has an established record in the title picture. But rather than push Michaels in his image of the established solo main eventer of 'The Showstopper' they keep him in this midcard novelty role he has been playing.

A good analogy would be Booker T. Back towards the end of WCW's run, the powers that b had troubl finding something for the Book to do. He was ready for a run at the top of the card, but needed something to occupy him until they were ready to put the belt on him. They put him in the comical M.I.A. stable, under the novelty gimmick of G.I. Bro. It was a bit of fun, fans bought into it and knew it was Booker T underneath the paint.... but when the time finally came for that big title win, it wasn't G.I. Bro who pinned Jeff Jarrett for the belt; WCW bookers, dumb as they were, had the sense to know that, as amusing as midcard comedy act G.I. Bro was, the fans would only accept 'Booker T' as the champion of the company. Bro was midcard, Booker was main event... same person or not.

Same reason you never saw Dude Love wandering around with the WWF Championship, even though Mankind did. Same reason Big Show has held many a championship title, and 'Showkishi' hasn't.

Trouble with Shawn is that he doesn't use seperate pseudonyms. The lines between fantasy and reality are blurred with this guy. It's not his birth name, but he IS Shawn Michaels. So it's not as easy to just point out. But "DX Member, Shawn Michaels" is no "Showstopper, Shawn Michaels" from a character standpoint and that will be evident come WrestleMania.

After all, who do you think will be in the ring destroying another up-and-coming superstar at SummerSlam this year? Hulk Hogan? Or Mister America? Same person, different personas, but we all know who the draw is.

[NeanderCarl]

Ask yourself this: if things had gone differently on January 8, 2007, would we be about to see John Cena vs "DX Member, Triple H" at WrestleMania? Or would it be John Cena vs 'The Game'?

I know which one I believe.

[Vastardikai]

Micheals is going over in the end, anyway, so who cares?

[NeanderCarl]

There's no way he has strong enough momentum for WWE to put him over their golden boy just yet. If he does get the belt this year, it's just to keep it warm for his big nosed French buddy.

[Vastardikai]

True, but you forget one thing: It's Shawn Fucking Micheals. I promise you, he's already planting the seeds in Vince's mind that Cena isn't a strong enough draw. Hence, why most of the PPVs with Cena as Champion on Raw have been promoting something related to Micheals (DX, the Micheals-Hogan thing, etc.).

Cena, believe it or not, has NEVER been the top draw on Raw. It's been D-X or Micheals.

[Jeritron]

thats not true. Michaels hasn't wanted the belt because of his schedule and what not. If Shawn wins the belt its something he's doing for the company rather than something the company's doing for him.

As for Cena not being the top draw on raw and Michaels being so..why do you come to that conclusion? Are you just saying it because its what you feel or can you back it up?

[Vastardikai]

Much of Cena-Jericho was overshadowed by the Micheals-Hogan deal.

At the end of it, Cena did get a brief run at the top of the card while HBK and Flair did their little dance with Masters and Carlito. This was around the time, if you remember, that the crowds started turning on Cena in an extremely Hostile Manner.

Around Rumble time, as Cena was fighting to regain his title from Edge, Micheals-McMahon was starting up. This was about the only time that Cena was actually cheered during this point in time.

Near the end of this we have More time dedicated to Micheals-McMahon and less time dedicated to Cena's second run. It only really gets equal when they throw Trips into the mix with Cena. Wrestlemania, the crowd was hostile towards Cena, and the beginnings of "OMG-Crotch Chop! D-X Reunion Fap!Fap!Fap!".

Upon the reunion of D-X, they have been the main attraction of Raw, not Cena. Why were the house show series called the "D-X Reunion Tour"? And, it's more or less been all about D-X ever since.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I completely agree that DX has overshadowed Cena (a case of the lesser of two evils, in my opinion), but I would be willing to place money on John Cena retaining. He's the WWE's golden boy, making Triple H tap out last year at WrestleMania. HBK is just there to carry Cena to a potentially classic match (by status only), and do the job to further put Cena over as "the future!". The WWE Champion really should be the present, though, and shouldn't need justifying...but that is another arguement for another day.

[Pepsi Man]

Shawn Michaels, Val Venis, Paul London, Brian Kendrick and Ashley Massaro would make a pretty top-notch DX.
:D :lol: :rofl:

(Hey, I didn't roll my eyes at it.)

Come on, though...Val Venis would make an okay lackey, but the rest of them? No.

As for the whole "one half of a tag team" thing and how it's moreso that than at WrestleMania XIV, the thing that's been bothering me about that is that the only OFFICIAL members at the time of WrestleMania XIX were only Chyna (non wrestler), Triple H, and Shawn Michaels. You could also argue that special referee (yet still non wrestler) Mike Tyson was officially DX, but he truthfully was still there only because of his celebrity status.

I do agree with this though.

The WWE Champion really should be the present, though, and shouldn't need justifying...

I do agree with you on that. That's what the Intercontinental Title is for, although most of your wished-for champions...

------------------------------------------------------

As for Michaels and him being "the top draw of Raw" instead of Cena the whole time, that's simply not true...not for Cena's whole time on Raw, anyway.

Unforgiven '05 had Cena leading against Kurt Angle. Taboo Tuesday '05 had Cena leading, going into that Triple Threat, and even though it was against Angle and Michaels, Michaels was the one of the three that "had to be voted in by the fans".

Meh, I don't feel like writing in this thread anymore, or thinking about this, so I won't at the moment. Just whoever was trying to say that on Raw, it was like Michaels > Cena as far as relevance paid, think about that.

[Kane Knight]

Thing with the fake Kane (don't you love the way these topics veer off on such random tangents??) that I was most specifically thinking of when I posted my last comment was the very first time, when we saw him clutching his head in the corridor whilst hearing the voices in his head.

Later incidents, such as the voices over the PA, made a bit more sense - you could just about come up with an explanation - but the first week or two of build up was dire.

You didn't need to "make up" an explanation for the later stuff. For the first week or two, it was no worse, considering most larger facilities for entertainment have PA throughout the building.

It's no worse than when FK was controlling the lights later one.

[RP]

http://www.wrestlingworld.it/Historical/Biografie/dinobravo/dinobravologo.jpg

[NeanderCarl]

You didn't need to "make up" an explanation for the later stuff. For the first week or two, it was no worse, considering most larger facilities for entertainment have PA throughout the building.

It's no worse than when FK was controlling the lights later one.

The entire Kane/Undertaker saga is quite off-turning to me, as a wrestling fan. The backstory, the characters, the supernatural powers... it's all laughable. The pair of them are enduring and watchable in-ring performers, and you can't argue with success I suppose, but it's not what I want to see in a wrestling program.

Even during the Attitude era, you had all of the "realism" ruined by the crucifixtion/embalming/dead parents etc shit.

[Kane Knight]

You know what? Back then, it was worth tuning that shit out though.

You're absolutely right, the more "real" they got, the worse Undertaker looked.

Just like now, actually.

[Mr. Nerfect]

:D :lol: :rofl:

(Hey, I didn't roll my eyes at it.)

Come on, though...Val Venis would make an okay lackey, but the rest of them? No.

Ashley Massaro would make a fine Chyna/Tori. She's showing off her tits and cooch in Playboy...she's one of their favourite women and she does somewhat have personality. I don't see how she wouldn't fit. Paul London and Brian Kendrick are young, have the whole "Hooliganz" thing about them, and were trained by Shawn Michaels. If you are going to get any two guys and just shove them in DX, they do actually make sense.

[Kane Knight]

Venis could have possibly fit in with the old DX, because they were juvenile and fun. The neutered DX? I'm not sure the Big Valboski would fit in with the Christian morals of DX-ifixion.

London and Kendrick don't even strike me as remotely close to a DX attitude in either generation. Punk would be a good choice. Much as I dislike him, he'd be better. Cena could fit, if for no other reason then they're a tag team and Cena could do some cute little anti-authority deal.

I don't know who esle would fit. It's limited.

[NeanderCarl]

I think the DX name is more of a stigma now than a rub. If they add any more members to the current DX, it should be former members/associates returning, rather than burdoning potential future stars with being labelled as HHH/Shawn's baggage handler, or putting them in a position where they will be easy scapegoats for the two politicking veterans whenever a match falls apart/segment doesn't get over/ratings drop.

[NeanderCarl]

I was rofl at Booker inserting himself into the movie, and his spoken review of it. I'm sorry if it was cheesy trash and a shameless plug, it was just too damn absurd and hilarious for me not to laugh.

Just occurred to me that that was also a blatant rip-off of Disco Inferno inserting himself in Konnan's music video back in WCW.

[Vastardikai]

:As for Michaels and him being "the top draw of Raw" instead of Cena the whole time, that's simply not true...not for Cena's whole time on Raw, anyway.

Unforgiven '05 had Cena leading against Kurt Angle. Taboo Tuesday '05 had Cena leading, going into that Triple Threat, and even though it was against Angle and Michaels, Michaels was the one of the three that "had to be voted in by the fans".

Meh, I don't feel like writing in this thread anymore, or thinking about this, so I won't at the moment. Just whoever was trying to say that on Raw, it was like Michaels > Cena as far as relevance paid, think about that.

I was the poor bum trying to say that Micheals is the big draw on Raw, not Cena. In retrospect, I exaggerated about Cena never having the top billing, as he did for a brief while between Micheals-Hogan and Micheals-McMahon. It was a dark time for Cena as World Champion, too.

Taboo Tuesday, he had to be voted in, but it was almost a given. Between the three choices, there was really no doubt. Angle-Micheals was a hot feud from WM XXI, and they jelled together well. Who where the fans gonna pick: Shawn Micheals, given the above. Kane, who just came back from filming "See No Evil" (read, hadn't done much). Or Big Show, who also hadn't really done much on Raw. They weren't gonna pick Show or Kane.

Of course, trying to make Kurt Angle, who was at that point really Unturnable (The fans were booing a Retard. a RETARD. during his feud with Eugene), a heel for Cena was a dumb idea to begin with.

My main point that Micheals is a bigger draw than Cena right now stills stands. And I wouldn't doubt Micheals wanting one more run on top, so sorry, Cena. His only real hope is to turn heel.

[Kane Knight]

I think the DX name is more of a stigma now than a rub. If they add any more members to the current DX, it should be former members/associates returning, rather than burdoning potential future stars with being labelled as HHH/Shawn's baggage handler, or putting them in a position where they will be easy scapegoats for the two politicking veterans whenever a match falls apart/segment doesn't get over/ratings drop.

I agree. Any argument I make is more an intellectual excercise. Not exactly excited by the idea...

[Pepsi Man]

Ashley Massaro would make a fine Chyna/Tori. She's showing off her tits and cooch in Playboy...she's one of their favourite women and she does somewhat have personality. I don't see how she wouldn't fit. Paul London and Brian Kendrick are young, have the whole "Hooliganz" thing about them, and were trained by Shawn Michaels. If you are going to get any two guys and just shove them in DX, they do actually make sense.
Ashley =/= Chyna. Chyna was the "9th Wonder of the World" and billed as Hunter's bodyguard. Tori? Sure, but you remember that was in the rehashed DX towards the end of '99/beginning of 2000, and that she was brought in and put with X-Pac, right?

[NeanderCarl]

As far as London/Kendrick going into DX because they "fit"... same was said about The Hardyz in 1998 (when they were still plaid-wearing gay boys). Never happened. "Lower" guys weaken the team. At least, in the eyes of the "players", anyway. Michaels may be receptive to the idea simply because they are his trainees, but Trips? :lol:

[srnrew]

Anyone think its possible say HBK wins the title at Mania, then decides to recruit couple of younger members for DX. Then by the time HHH returns and wants back in the "new, younger DX" they all gang up on him setting up "heel" Michaels vs. "face" HHH.