You know what I would love to see just once...

[BigDaddyCool]

I would love to see a dark horse win a title right before a ppv. You know, in one of those throw away title matches they have just to fill time. Especially if it was someone who wasn't even in the feud to begin with. Then that person goes on and has a decent size title run. Just once would be could, and be enough to shake everything up.

Kinda like a few weeks ago when Kennedy was going against Bats for the title.

[Jeritron]

Kinda like when Jericho won the title before Backlash...and then it was taken back.

If that would have stuck it would have been exactly what you were talking about.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jeritron]

Yea I'd love to see it. Before a mania or a summerslam its a bad idea, but since theres 3 fucking titles and 15 fuckin ppvs, I wish they'd do something like this at least once.

Unpredictable, and it lends some realism to things.

[BigDaddyCool]

Before a Summerslam would acctaully work.

[Caged Heat18]

Just the unpredictability factor would such a refreshing change. Everything is so predictable these days, and something surprising and unexpected would be fun to see.

[Jeritron]

I wish a champion would lose their smile and we'd get a tournament.

[Kane Knight]

I've always felt the very occasional unexpected change would be beneficial.

Wrestling works as a formula, but shaking it up from time to time would be beneficial.

[Jeritron]

I know it seems kind of taboo, but imagine the Wresltemania main event title winner losing their belt the next night on Raw to an all new compettitor. And not getting it back.

[Jeritron]

Aside from HHH in 02, who dropped it a month later to Hogan at a PPV event, everyone who has won the belt at Wrestlemania has gone on to hold it for a while and get a huge push.

[The One]

Aside from HHH in 02, who dropped it a month later to Hogan at a PPV event, everyone who has won the belt at Wrestlemania has gone on to hold it for a while and get a huge push.

Yeah, Yoko had a hell of a reign after Mania 9... :shifty:

[El Fangel]

I really think if they did this, it wouldn't change much. As said before it is way too predictable. I mean they would likely announce the winner before the match as to prevent heart attack liabilitys caused from sudden and rapid shock.

[BigDaddyCool]

Quit being such a party pooper Fallen Angle.

[El Fangel]

Oh yeah, sorry for posting the truth. Seriously though, I would mark out like mad for the writers doing something like this, but they would likely make it far too predictable to be considered unpredictable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, little exciting things like this would make professional wrestling a better place.

I've always wanted to see something even more shocking. Remember when Vince McMahon won the WWE Championship? That was shocking, but it was made believeable by Stone Cold Steve Austin's assist. I'd love to see a wrestler like Funaki challenging for a World Title, and the heel just toys with him for a bit, and when the referee tries to get him to end the match, he just punches out the referee. Then the top babyface runs out, hits his finishing move on the heel, puts the babyface on top, and then the referee comes to.

The underdog face reign would probably only last a week or so, but it would be a great surprise, and a "thank you" for their years of service to the company.

[Jeritron]

and destroy any and all credibility the title held.

Seriously dude, FUNAKI. Even Alienoid should have limits. Sometimes I'll be reading your booking and nodding my head, and then all of a sudden WHAM! A completely absurd thing. Which is one of your finer qualities I suppose. But funaki?

Anyways, since you have the capability to shock the hell out of me by taking a turn for O.J land in the middle of coherence, maybe you should be booking. You just need a Vince McMahon to control your creative juices.

[El Fangel]

If they did the same thing they did with Hardy/HHH for the Intercontinental Title a few years ago, only with other wrestlers, for the world title I think that big of an upset would blow the thing out of the water.

[Corkscrewed]

Alienoid would be the Smark's Vince Russo. :lol:

[Jeritron]

Yea but it'd have to be a credible wrestler.

I mean, it's only good if it's someone shocking, but not suprising. Jericho and Mankind are perfect examples, or Edge in early 06.
Even the Jeff Hardy's and Rey Mysterio's of the world could pull of shocking underdog wins, maybe with a little help and luck, and it'd be somewhat credible. Just because they are believable singles stars and over.

But the best example I could think of, and not just because I'm a mark for him, is Jericho in 2000. If that win stuck, it'd be exactly what we're discussing here.
Something similar to that. And it's only a shocking title win if its the wrestlers first world title win too.

[Savio]

and destroy any and all credibility the title held.

Seriously dude, FUNAKI. Even Alienoid should have limits. Sometimes I'll be reading your booking and nodding my head, and then all of a sudden WHAM! A completely absurd thing. Which is one of your finer qualities I suppose. But funaki?

Anyways, since you have the capability to shock the hell out of me by taking a turn for O.J land in the middle of coherence, maybe you should be booking. You just need a Vince McMahon to control your creative juices.:lol: I wanted Gillberg to beat HHH for the title before.

[Jeritron]

Remember HHH's matches with Brooklyn Brawler and Taka in 2000?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's a staged sport, I don't see why they can't just relax and say "OK, this guy knows how to do everything right." as a credibility test. Granted, Funaki winning the title might be a bit extreme, but a Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin or Elijah Burke could do so much with a win like that.

[Theo Dious]

There was a storyline in one of the PS2 Smackdowns where, if you are champion, you get set up against a definitive midcarder (Stevie Richards, Matt Hardy, etc.) I always loved losing that match just for the fun of it.

[addy2hotty]

It's a staged sport, I don't see why they can't just relax and say "OK, this guy knows how to do everything right." as a credibility test. Granted, Funaki winning the title might be a bit extreme, but a Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin or Elijah Burke could do so much with a win like that.

In Sport, especially Boxing, there have been plenty of shock results. Boxers who have not been deemed worthy of being a champion winning the title - Oliver McCall, Buster Douglas, Hasim Rahman, Frank Bruno.

Now, if wrestling is a 'staged' sport, as you put it - then your point is good, why shouldn't we have a Funaki/Jeff Hardy/Shelton victory now and then? Sport, by definition creates shock results - in every sport. Sure, the big guys normally come out on top, but now and then there is a shock.

Why does it HAVE to be a guy, as Jeritron said, who is a credible wrestler? In whose eyes - ours? I don't think Cena is a credible wrestler and he has had the biggest face/superman push of all time. Why can't we have a guy who has the 'fight' of his career and wins the title?

[Jeritron]

Becasue you have to maintain a type of logic and kayfabe with their title scene. Havin over and credible world champions is important. History has showed that things like that are absurd. The belt has to be taken seriously.

Now, you said Funaki/Jeff Hardy/Shelton. Now thats vastly different things. The fans take Jeff and Shelton WAY more seriously. They've picked up wins over big names, they've been TREMENDOUSLY over on the midcard and with fans, they've had huge matches and singles titles. Them winning the title in a fluke would be something most fans would view as acceptable. Not on the regular, but it's not something that would destroy the credibility of the belt as much as it would please the fans for a short time period.

With Funaki, he shouldn't even be involved in this debate. If a wrestler isn't hella over with fans, and isn't worthy of winning a midcard singles title, then its really a bad move to have them win your title.

[addy2hotty]

Becasue you have to maintain a type of logic and kayfabe with their title scene. Havin over and credible world champions is important. History has showed that things like that are absurd. The belt has to be taken seriously.

Now, you said Funaki/Jeff Hardy/Shelton. Now thats vastly different things. The fans take Jeff and Shelton WAY more seriously. They've picked up wins over big names, they've been TREMENDOUSLY over on the midcard and with fans, they've had huge matches and singles titles. Them winning the title in a fluke would be something most fans would view as acceptable. Not on the regular, but it's not something that would destroy the credibility of the belt as much as it would please the fans for a short time period.

With Funaki, he shouldn't even be involved in this debate. If a wrestler isn't hella over with fans, and isn't worthy of winning a midcard singles title, then its really a bad move to have them win your title.

I don't see why though. The WWE wants, more than anything, mainstream acceptance. I'll give you Funaki - I mentioned him as he was a focal point of the debate, but my point remains the same, every 'real' sport has its surprise winners, its universally accepted 'undeserving' or 'lucky' champions. It's sport. That's the nature of it. Why should it be different in one that is 'staged'?

You mentioned the history of the title, and the fact that it would be would mean less with the odd 'shock' win here and there, or an undeserving champion. Say William Regal reappeared and won the title in a shock win. Clean over a 'jaded, out of sorts' John Cena after Wrestlemania. Because he's not over, because he's been out for ages, does that taint the WWE titles history? Will it be taken less seriously because of it? Who would take it less seriously? TNA fans?

This is an interesting debate. I like it.

[Jeritron]

I won't continue in it after that

[addy2hotty]

I won't continue in it after that

:roll: You were far more fun when you had the numbers in your name.

[Kane Knight]

I really think if they did this, it wouldn't change much. As said before it is way too predictable. I mean they would likely announce the winner before the match as to prevent heart attack liabilitys caused from sudden and rapid shock.

But wrestling has always been predictable, save for rare occasions. That's all we're talking about here.

Wrestling needs something to bring back the illusion that keeps us watching: That anything really can happen in WWE.

[Jeritron]

:roll: You were far more fun when you had the numbers in your name.

Funaki winning a world title isn't fun, its disasterous

[BigDaddyCool]

I don't see why though. The WWE wants, more than anything, mainstream acceptance. I'll give you Funaki - I mentioned him as he was a focal point of the debate, but my point remains the same, every 'real' sport has its surprise winners, its universally accepted 'undeserving' or 'lucky' champions. It's sport. That's the nature of it. Why should it be different in one that is 'staged'?

You mentioned the history of the title, and the fact that it would be would mean less with the odd 'shock' win here and there, or an undeserving champion. Say William Regal reappeared and won the title in a shock win. Clean over a 'jaded, out of sorts' John Cena after Wrestlemania. Because he's not over, because he's been out for ages, does that taint the WWE titles history? Will it be taken less seriously because of it? Who would take it less seriously? TNA fans?

This is an interesting debate. I like it.

Well, at least Regal could teach Cena how to properly apply an STF.

[Savio]

Wrestling needs something to bring back the illusion that keeps us watching: That anything really can happen in WWE.I agree someone needs to get raped mid-match.

[Chavo Classic]

I always thought the Rumble was the ideal time to throw in a shock like this. Take for example, and a lot of people are going to jump off my throat for this but he's a good candidate, if Punk won the Rumble by fluke. Say the two favourites simaltenously eliminated each other and left Punk in the ring. I'd cause mayhem. Lots of people would love it, lots of people would hate it - regardless they'd definately watch the next Raw to see if Punk gets his title shot as stipulated or if one or both of the original Rumble favourites got it back.

Then lets say Punk kept hold of his shot. It'd wouldnt be terribly hard to book - just remember the first time you watched Rocky I. Have Punk put on a few steady but not overwhelming matches in the Mania warm up and whoever is champion at the time continue to arrogantly squash his pre-Mania feud opponent.

Then onto Mania, you'd have a number of possible scenarios to play with. Have Punk put in a valiant and respectable effort but the champion come out on top a la Rocky I, or even overcome the odds as in the sequel. And we haven't even got onto the post-Mania/Backlash feud yet.

All I'm saying is that things need to be made different. The last Rumble win that wasn't predictable or in anyway satisfying would be McMahon in 1999 or at a push Austin in 2001. You want to make Mania an unmissable event? Fuck Billionaire VS Billionaire in 'Hair vs We don't care' match. Give us a surprise.

[Kane Knight]

I agree someone needs to get raped mid-match.

Come on, it needs to be new. Heidenreich did that twice.

[Kane Knight]

I always thought the Rumble was the ideal time to throw in a shock like this. Take for example, and a lot of people are going to jump off my throat for this but he's a good candidate, if Punk won the Rumble by fluke. Say the two favourites simaltenously eliminated each other and left Punk in the ring. I'd cause mayhem. Lots of people would love it, lots of people would hate it - regardless they'd definately watch the next Raw to see if Punk gets his title shot as stipulated or if one or both of the original Rumble favourites got it back.

Then lets say Punk kept hold of his shot. It'd wouldnt be terribly hard to book - just remember the first time you watched Rocky I. Have Punk put on a few steady but not overwhelming matches in the Mania warm up and whoever is champion at the time continue to arrogantly squash his pre-Mania feud opponent.

Then onto Mania, you'd have a number of possible scenarios to play with. Have Punk put in a valiant and respectable effort but the champion come out on top a la Rocky I, or even overcome the odds as in the sequel. And we haven't even got onto the post-Mania/Backlash feud yet.

All I'm saying is that things need to be made different. The last Rumble win that wasn't predictable or in anyway satisfying would be McMahon in 1999 or at a push Austin in 2001. You want to make Mania an unmissable event? Fuck Billionaire VS Billionaire in 'Hair vs We don't care' match. Give us a surprise.

See, that would be interesting, controversial, and plausible.

[addy2hotty]

Funaki winning a world title isn't fun, its disasterous

As I said, "i'll give you Funaki", doesn't make the rest of my post any less worth discussing.

[Jeritron]

oh I agree with the Jeff Hardy and Shelton Benjamins. They are over enough to pull off a fluke, or as I would like to call it, and upset and have a subsequent underdog reign, as long as it was short enough it wouldn't destroy credibility. At least not with the core fans.
Thats one of the things that was so great about the attitude era. Wrestlers like Xpac and Road Dogg would get title matches and you believed that they may actually win, and if they did fans would be fine with it. From a booking standpoint it'd be important to make it happen by luck, and end quickly, but it'd be nice to see.

The Jericho title win was great, and I don't see why they couldn't have let him keep it for a week, or until smackdown, or even until later that night. At the time they probably wanted to give that rub and set the pace for that future fued, without giving Jericho his first title win. But in retrospect, that title win and moment that never happened was better than his first and last title win, that was terribly booked and dissapointing. So in essence, his great title win never really did happen.

I'd love to see stuff liek this happen occasionally. Not David Arquette type stuff, but yes I love the idea of some upset quality. It just has to be an acceptable upset, with a star who's over enough to be a champion even if only an underdog fluke one.

For instance, Rey winning. I was perfectly fine with Rey winning the title at Wrestlemania 22. I just wish they booked him better, made it a little shorter and made it about him and not Eddie. His match with Sabu was his only real credible match. He should have come out of that shocking, yet clean upset win, and defended it cleanly once or twice more. Then he should have had a few escapes from imminent loss. Then the underdogs luck should have run out and he should have gotten beaten cleanly and decisively by a strong champion and ended it at that. It works that way. Because although Rey is small and a fluke, he's over enough with fans for them to buy it and appreciate him as long as he's booked properly and its short and sweet.

I'm sorry if I came off like a total bitch.

[The One]

I always dreamed they would allow Billy Gunn to get that "underdog" Title Win...they never did. :'(

[Jeritron]

I legitimately believe that one day Road Dogg would get a main event push when I was young in 1998. Damn I was wrong.

[Kane Knight]

I'm sorry if I came off like a total bitch.

No you're not. Come with me, to the Dark Side.

[Jeritron]

Is it possible to learn this power?

[Arnold HamNegger]

You know what I would love to see again, just once...

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/04/cenavsy2j3.jpg

[BigDaddyCool]

hahaha, look at Cena. He looks so silly.