Thinking about Nirvana

[Stickman]

I do enjoy some Nirvana, but I gotta thinkin', if Cobain didn't die would anybody think they'd be as good as we're led to believe?

[Silent]

I think if he had continued to make music, it would have gotten progressively worse with each release, and people would say "They were better in the early 90's."

[jindrak]

Zen v.w.o would have a thing or two to say about this subject.

[Kane Knight]

Cobain's death was the best thing to happen to them. They would have been ripped to shreds in time.

[ron the dial]

I think if he had continued to make music, it would have gotten progressively worse with each release, and people would say "They were better in the early 90's."
This pretty much happens to every band, and I agree that Nirvana wouldn't have been an exception. KK is definitely right when he said that Kurt's death is the best thing that could have happened to Nirvana.

[KingofOldSchool]

Cobain's death was the best thing to happen to them. They would have been ripped to shreds in time.

Exactly.

Why do you think Cobain had that "it's better to burn out than to fade away?"

He knew that in due time they'd drop off the face of the Earth, so by killing himself at his appex, he ensured himself the symbol of a rock God.

This is why I say Nirvana is the most overrated band of all time.

Well either them or U2.

[FakeLaser]

I think Cobain would have known when to stop making records, personally.

[thedamndest]

If you believe that the note was originally a retirement note then they would have been done making records, but nothing enshrines one like an untimely demise.

[Downunder]

KooS hit the nail on the head

[Blitz]

Don't really get the hype.

[Kid Robb]

Isn't this kind of hard to answer because grunge basically died when he did?

Their sound would have evolved and their entire "genre" would have survived a lot longer had he not died.

I don't think they would have been so massive though - their reputation has grown because of how everything happened moreso than the quality of the music imo.

[HaTeR]

I believe they would've either stopped making records by now or they would be one of the decent rock bands still around from the 90s, sort of in a position like NIN is, I'd say, nothing special, but better than most of the stuff currently coming out in rock.

Like another poster said, I believe he would know when to stop or he would know how to "evolve" his music in the right direction.

[Kane Knight]

Isn't this kind of hard to answer because grunge basically died when he did?

Grunge was already on a decline....

[Just John]

This is why I say Nirvana is the most overrated band of all time.

This is good enough for me

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Weren't they on the verge of breaking up anyways?


I think he just couldn't stand Courtney Love any longer... :shifty:

[FakeLaser]

Courtney Love had him killed.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Courtney Love had him killed.

I don't think she would need somebody to kill him. I get the impression just being around her would drive anybody to the barrel of a gun.

I can only guess how screwed up Francis bean is going to turn out.

[Zen v.W.o.]

All that would have differed from now was he'd have less fans claiming to love them. The music would have stayed the same as it always has been, and always will be. They were great and influential before he died, they were a breath of fresh air before the death of Kurt...his death did nothing to alter their music.

It's not as if his death affected any of that in any manner to a large degree.

Overrated? Not at all, and there's no argument for such a claim.

Overrated how? Musically? Nope. Influentially? Nope.

They already made their mark well before his death. His death simply allowed them to never regress like certain bands have, aka the Stones, and any other dinosaurs that dont know when to let it go.

[Kane Knight]

All that would have differed from now was he'd have less fans claiming to love them. The music would have stayed the same as it always has been, and always will be. They were great and influential before he died, they were a breath of fresh air before the death of Kurt...his death did nothing to alter their music.

It's not as if his death affected any of that in any manner to a large degree.

Overrated? Not at all, and there's no argument for such a claim.

Overrated how? Musically? Nope. Influentially? Nope.

They already made their mark well before his death. His death simply allowed them to never regress like certain bands have, aka the Stones, and any other dinosaurs that dont know when to let it go.

Fuck that fanboy shit, there is an argument. Their "influence" is not readily heard in modern music, except in people from the same generation of bands, who were largely concurrent in the first place (And just ripped off the Pixies like the hacks in Nirvana).

Overrated musically? Of course there's an argument. You see, while I'm not saying they outright suck, nobody could live up to the hype they were given.

Influentially? "post-Grunge" bands were already going on before Nirvana was even out there...And were subsequently renamed to fit a "new" genre. Kinda like how Mission of Burma are Post-Punk, though they started in 78 (Still considered the punk era).

You'd think they had had a lasting significant effect on the music scene, but a decade later, this isn't true. Did they make a mark? Yes. Did they make the giant mark fanboys claim? No. Classic case of overrated.

Norvana are treated as a singular band that changed the face of music in the modern era. The problem is, so are a dozen other bands from the same era treated as such. They're not Lennon and McCartney, but are treated as such. Overrated.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Their impact is undoubtful. They happened to allow their kind of music and bands alike and not so alike to be heard in the mainstream. That changed music in a big way. Without Nirvana, as a mattar of fact, many of you, probably yourself included, would have never even known about the Pixies or say the Melvins. Kurt talked about them often and told us how they influenced him, but they influenced Nirvana...Nirvana influenced the masses.
In fact, Nirvana was the band to give the Pixies that rub. So I dunno man, bringing that up only magnifies my argument for the better.
The Pixies didnt start a movement, Nirvana did, and the Pixies pocketed some extra dough because of it. Even the Beatles were influenced by somebody, I dont think that takes anything away from them.

Not to mention the fact artistically speaking, Nirvana created albums well worth the praise they got, which they had gotten well before anything happened to Cobain.

As far as influence goes in terms of bands, there are many, so many of them crap, as you'd expect, and others inspired by them but not trying to totally come off sounding like them. That just cant work.

Kids today are looking up at Nirvana like they were our Led Zeppelin, which is how kids of the past generation looked while Nirvana were still playing garage tour shows.

Take a look at bands today, whether they be considered grunge, punk, indie, emo or nu-metal, whatever...they all claim Nirvana to be a band that they loved and were inspired by, in some manner..they get that overall, universal credit...they dont have to be heard in some way in all these bands music to have made their mark upon them. You dont get that same credit, at least on that level with the other bigger bands that were smash hits back in the early 90's, such as Pearl Jam or Soundgarden.

Of course bands such as Nirvana with leaders like Cobain recieve a lot of flack or backlash, that's always the case. People try to deny or take away what it was they accomplished, but Nirvana created more quality music in such a small amount of work then most other bands create in bodies of work twice as large, if not more than that.

[el fregadero]

Never say all bands claim Nirvana as a band they loved and were inspired by.

[KingofOldSchool]

They already made their mark well before his death. His death simply allowed them to never regress like certain bands have, aka the Stones, and any other dinosaurs that dont know when to let it go.

Last I heard the Stones were still selling out arenas all over the World.

Oh and that's with the amazingly high ticket prices. That means people from all around the World will pay over $175 a ticket just to see them perform.

Every album that a band comes out with doesn't have to be at the top of the charts to still be an impactful band. If you draw as a band live, then that means more than being #1 on the album charts but don't bring in as much people as you'd expect.

[Kane Knight]

Their impact is undoubtful. They happened to allow their kind of music and bands alike and not so alike to be heard in the mainstream. That changed music in a big way.

Empty platitudes from a fanboy.

Without Nirvana, as a mattar of fact, many of you, probably yourself included, would have never even known about the Pixies or say the Melvins.

I'd take those odds. Considering I'd been listening to the Pixies since before you were likely fawning over Nirvana. :)

Kurt talked about them often and told us how they influenced him, but they influenced Nirvana...Nirvana influenced the masses.
In fact, Nirvana was the band to give the Pixies that rub. So I dunno man, bringing that up only magnifies my argument for the better.

The Pixies were doing well for themselves before. That you try and bring in that they got a "rub" from Kurt only weaknes your argument.

Also, I was bringing up the Pixies because you said they could not be disputed musicially as ovberrated. They ripped off concurrent and prior bands. We're not talking influences. Even the Beatles made a distinct sound, rather than ripping off the Boston Scene and simply calling it a new sound. Nice dodge, though.

Not to mention the fact artistically speaking, Nirvana created albums well worth the praise they got, which they had gotten well before anything happened to Cobain.

Artistically speaking, they are uninspired knockoffs of other people before and during Cobain. :p

You can call them worth their praise, but they were praised as new and original, and they were neither.

As far as influence goes in terms of bands, there are many, so many of them crap, as you'd expect, and others inspired by them but not trying to totally come off sounding like them. That just cant work.

Empty words.

Take a look at bands today, whether they be considered grunge, punk, indie, emo or nu-metal, whatever...they all claim Nirvana to be a band that they loved and were inspired by, in some manner..they get that overall, universal credit...

That is the dumbest thing you've ever said.

they dont have to be heard in some way in all these bands music to have made their mark upon them

No, but you would hear some influence. Somewhere.

You dont get that same credit, at least on that level with the other bigger bands that were smash hits back in the early 90's, such as Pearl Jam or Soundgarden.

You don't get the same credit on that level with Nirvana, either.


Of course bands such as Nirvana with leaders like Cobain recieve a lot of flack or backlash, that's always the case.

Actually, it's the other way around. People always try and make their favorites bigger, more epic.

[Kane Knight]

Last I heard the Stones were still selling out arenas all over the World.

Oh and that's with the amazingly high ticket prices. That means people from all around the World will pay over $175 a ticket just to see them perform.

Every album that a band comes out with doesn't have to be at the top of the charts to still be an impactful band. If you draw as a band live, then that means more than being #1 on the album charts but don't bring in as much people as you'd expect.

But...But...They don't wear flannel! They're washed up!

[KingofOldSchool]

But...But...They don't wear flannel! They're washed up!

And none of the band members killed themself!

[Kane Knight]

And none of the band members killed themself!

And most importantly, I'm not a rabid fanboy for them!

I mean, so what if the Stone actually managed to stay contemporary for at least twice as long as Nirvana did....

[KingofOldSchool]

I mean, so what if the Stone actually managed to stay contemporary for at least twice as long as Nirvana did....

But you can't stay contemporary if your lead singer is dead. :roll:

[Kane Knight]

But...But...The Official Nirvana Fanclub and my psychic link with Kurt tell me that he would have retired anyway!

[KingofOldSchool]

I heard that Kurt is actually still alive and is the lead singer of Nickelback, that's why I have all of Nickelback's CDs and posters!

[Kane Knight]

Musically, you cannot deny Nickelback's talent and influence!

[G]

i liked them when i first got into them, like 10 years ago, but also at the same time sooooo many people were worshipping them, and honestly i just got sick of their fake fame and shit, and also i can't stand their songs anymore so I have deleted all their albums off of my computer.

[Penner]

zen vwo you are ridiculous.

Kurt Cobain is basically a household name. Why? Because he killed himself. That's it.

[Kane Knight]

i liked them when i first got into them, like 10 years ago, but also at the same time sooooo many people were worshipping them, and honestly i just got sick of their fake fame and shit, and also i can't stand their songs anymore so I have deleted all their albums off of my computer.

I own a few of their CDs. Mostly because they were especially popular when I was still DJing. They're not bad or anything, they're just a generic band who was big largely because of an image. Shallow fuckers eat that up and take a decent band and make them into something "amazing."

[KingofOldSchool]

It's funny that new Nirvana "fans" are the same fans that listen to shit like Panic at the Disco and Fall Out Boy.

[ron the dial]

Oh, but don't you hear the influence in their music, KoOS? It's blatantly evident.

The only reason those kids listen to Nirvana is because those bands claim Nirvana as an influence. Thus, they must be "cool" and worth checking out.

[Kane Knight]

It's funny that new Nirvana "fans" are the same fans that listen to shit like Panic at the Disco and Fall Out Boy.

Let's be fair. Fallout Boy's sales in the current climate are phenomenal. Which is probably because Kurt Cobain's ghost is writing all their songs.

[Skippord]

Zombie Kurt Cobain album in 2013!

[KingofOldSchool]

Makaveli is really Kurt Cobain.

[Kane Knight]

Makaveli is really Kurt Cobain.

He killed Tupac to start the countdown to his return.

[Kane Knight]

You know, I can't find any mention of an influence of Nirvana or Cobain under Fall Out Boy.

ZOMG FANBOY CONSPIRACY!

[KingofOldSchool]

He killed Tupac to start the countdown to his return.

2-Pac was Cobain

[Zen v.W.o.]

zen vwo you are ridiculous.

Kurt Cobain is basically a household name. Why? Because he killed himself. That's it.


Most retarded post of all time and ever. So he wasnt a household name before that right? Christ you simple minded douche.

Lennon wasnt household until he got shot!!!!!!! about equals what you just said.

The music and what he created and shit was quality and well worth the praise it got before he died and continued to get after. Nothing changed.

Fuckin Penner, you must be 15.

[Zen v.W.o.]

btw KK, nice to see you dismiss everything someone says by calling them fanboys. It's an easy copout, and a rather sly way of making your case look stronger, when in reality it's tiresome and pretty much makes those debating with you want to completely cease from doing so, since it's rather pointless to go on...Your views are not alterable, nor can you see anything from another mindset.

I could label koos a PJ fanboy and rip on everything about them, and he could come back at me with something worthwhile....yet the term fanboy totally KO's the argument!!:nono:

BTW I love PJ, so no worries, they wont be shredded.

Yeah Nirvana borrowed some influence from the Pixies..big deal. That's the way the industry works. Yet Nirvana added something those other bands didnt..melody on top of distortion, which was not perfected by other bands until Nirvana. Say what you will, but that was a rather enjoyable dichotomy.
So borrowing from The Melvins, Pixies, etc is pretty much factual, yet does nothing at all to take away from what Nirvana did. They didnt leech, they never ripped off a sound and completely claimed it as something they came up with, if anything it was certain people in the media who dumped that upon them, and they managed to come up with a sound that clicked with millions of people, in a rather profound way. Impact. Something totally undeniable. And for once a band that made it big was where they were because they deserved to be there.

btw, Vedder loves Cobain and would spit on you koos for such asinine opinions. lolz.

[KingofOldSchool]

I could label koos a PJ fanboy and rip on everything about them, and he could come back at me with something worthwhile....yet the term fanboy totally KO's the argument!!:nono:

1. Where did I bring Pearl Jam into this??? Please point me to a part of any of my posts in this topic where I mention them.

2. Yes, Pearl Jam is my favorite band, but I don't proclaim them to be the greatest band of all time. Hell they aren't even in my Top 10.

btw, Vedder loves Cobain and would spit on you koos for such asinine opinions. lolz.

I could care less. I don't follow every single littles gospel like supposed "fanboys" do. If he appreciated Cobain, that's his perogative.

[Kane Knight]

btw KK, nice to see you dismiss everything someone says by calling them fanboys.

Not everybody, but nice to see you're such a drama queen.

It's an easy copout, and a rather sly way of making your case look stronger, when in reality it's tiresome and pretty much makes those debating with you want to completely cease from doing so, since it's rather pointless to go on...Your views are not alterable, nor can you see anything from another mindset.

That's bullshit, but it's an easy copout for someone who has done nothing but offered empty platitudes.

I could label koos a PJ fanboy and rip on everything about them, and he could come back at me with something worthwhile....yet the term fanboy totally KO's the argument!!:nono:


Too bad that wasn't the sum total of my argument, or you might have something other than a bitter little bitchfest.

Yeah Nirvana borrowed some influence from the Pixies..big deal. That's the way the industry works. Yet Nirvana added something those other bands didnt..melody on top of distortion, which was not perfected by other bands until Nirvana. Say what you will, but that was a rather enjoyable dichotomy.


Borrowing? Yeah. Ripped off. Again, still dodging what I said.

So borrowing from The Melvins, Pixies, etc is pretty much factual, yet does nothing at all to take away from what Nirvana did.

Plagiarise?

They didnt leech, they never ripped off a sound and completely claimed it as something they came up with, if anything it was certain people in the media who dumped that upon them, and they managed to come up with a sound that clicked with millions of people, in a rather profound way. Impact. Something totally undeniable. And for once a band that made it big was where they were because they deserved to be there.


No, just because some whiny fuck blew his head off.


Most retarded post of all time and ever. So he wasnt a household name before that right? Christ you simple minded douche.

Lennon wasnt household until he got shot!!!!!!! about equals what you just said.

Cobain was a household name in the same way many flavors of the months are before they wash out.

Lennon had been a household name for a significantly longer period of time, wethering even Yoko Ono. Yes, it's the exact same thing, provided Linkin Park is also on this list.

The music and what he created and shit was quality and well worth the praise it got before he died and continued to get after. Nothing changed.

Wow. Total ignorance. To pretend that he did not gain a following simply for dying is to totally ignore REALITY.

[Kane Knight]

1. Where did I bring Pearl Jam into this??? Please point me to a part of any of my posts in this topic where I mention them.

2. Yes, Pearl Jam is my favorite band, but I don't proclaim them to be the greatest band of all time. Hell they aren't even in my Top 10.



I could care less. I don't follow every single littles gospel like supposed "fanboys" do. If he appreciated Cobain, that's his perogative.

You should go around proclaiming that every band draws influence from Pearl Jam. Because dammit, just because Zen looks foolish for comparing your love of a band with his obssessive insistence that they are undeniably influential in every possible genre doesn't mean we can't make it fit.

I mean sure, you aren't professing the brilliance of Vedder.

You're not pretending they're a legendary über influence.

And, you're not saying Pearl Jam is revered by the new generation...

...Otherwise, Zen's completely on the ball. Calling you a fanboy would be EXACTLY the same. Because you're unreasonably making broad assertions that cannot be true...

...Wait, you're not. Shit, this is nothing alike.

[Zen v.W.o.]

KK, look at me, I'm not even listening to a word you're saying.

Just accept Nirvana's greatness and undeniable influence and impact upon the music industry, and try to move on.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Not everybody, but nice to see you're such a drama queen.



That's bullshit, but it's an easy copout for someone who has done nothing but offered empty platitudes.



Too bad that wasn't the sum total of my argument, or you might have something other than a bitter little bitchfest.



Borrowing? Yeah. Ripped off. Again, still dodging what I said.



Plagiarise?



No, just because some whiny fuck blew his head off.




Cobain was a household name in the same way many flavors of the months are before they wash out.

Lennon had been a household name for a significantly longer period of time, wethering even Yoko Ono. Yes, it's the exact same thing, provided Linkin Park is also on this list.



Wow. Total ignorance. To pretend that he did not gain a following simply for dying is to totally ignore REALITY.

See that last part? Yeah he gained a wider audience after he died. That's fucking par for the course. How that affects what he did musically though is beyond me. He just got more of those intrigued by death types. Big deal.
When Lennon got shot, he got some bandwagon fans jump on his caboose too. When presly wound up dead, same deal. When Dean died he became this fucking icon. Monroe died and she became a legend for whatever reason, despite a serious lack of talent. Cobain wasnt on the Monroe side of things, he died a talented individual and artist.
You say he's overrated. I say that one who acquires more fans and fame due to death doesnt become overrated unless whatever he did in life was not so significant. To try and doubt his significance during his lifetime is to underrate him, and greatly.

[94 SVT Cobra]

Ive always felt this way about Nirvana if Kurt didnt kill himself, Nirvana would just be another band that was "Great back then but not so great now" in a lot of pepoles minds.

BUT, i will FOREVER feel that when pepole say "Kurt Cobain was the voice of an entire generation" i dont think you could ever debate or ignore that. I remember as a kid i had baby sitters in the early-mid90s and a GOOD amount of them just loved nirvana. I even knew wtf teen spirit was at the age of 6-7 and while i appreciated it more as i got older, i couldnt help but feeling like kurt really did speak for that generation with lyrics.

To be blunt about it, i still think kurt cobain was one of the best song writers ever, beacuse his shit was modern enough that you understood it, but deep enough that you felt it.

[Penner]

Most retarded post of all time and ever. So he wasnt a household name before that right? Christ you simple minded douche.

Lennon wasnt household until he got shot!!!!!!! about equals what you just said.

The music and what he created and shit was quality and well worth the praise it got before he died and continued to get after. Nothing changed.

Fuckin Penner, you must be 15.
lol.

Wow. You "showed" me.

You obviously have no music knowledge at all.

Do you even know what a "household name" means?

I know Nirvana was well praised or whatever, of course, I liked them back then and I still listen to them now.

Not just grunge fans knew who he was, but EVERYONE did and everyone still does. And that is thanks to the suicide.

btw I'm 19.

[Penner]

You're argument is "I'm not listening just accept it"?

Nice.

And you're calling me 15.

[Kane Knight]

KK, look at me, I'm not even listening to a word you're saying.

Just accept Nirvana's greatness and undeniable influence and impact upon the music industry, and try to move on.

And you wonder why you're called a fanboy when KoOS is not.



See that last part? Yeah he gained a wider audience after he died. That's fucking par for the course. How that affects what he did musically though is beyond me. He just got more of those intrigued by death types. Big deal.

Except, you know, it's contrary to what you said. That's a big deal. But again, nice dodge.

When Lennon got shot, he got some bandwagon fans jump on his caboose too. When presly wound up dead, same deal. When Dean died he became this fucking icon. Monroe died and she became a legend for whatever reason, despite a serious lack of talent. Cobain wasnt on the Monroe side of things, he died a talented individual and artist.


Veeeeery goooood.


You say he's overrated. I say that one who acquires more fans and fame due to death doesnt become overrated unless whatever he did in life was not so significant. To try and doubt his significance during his lifetime is to underrate him, and greatly.

That's bullshit. You're trying to equate accomplishment with popularity, the two of which are not the same or even related.

Their rep is for brilliance and originality, both are undeserved no matter how popular they are. Just because more and more fans scream it after he blew his brains out doesn't make it true. His work and Nirvana's in general is uninspired and unoriginal. That cannot change because people like them. Therefore, their rep is undeserved and they are overrated. Overrated simply means they do not live up to that reputation in reality, not that they are completely insignificant. Again, the overreaction is why you get called a fanboy, not the fact that you like them.

[Zen v.W.o.]

KK, my problem is that you severely underrate what they did do. In fact, you blatantly try to erase most of it, which I find a bit baffling.

Of course I'm a fan, I love their music man. I can tell you they arent the most influential band ever or the best band ever technically speaking, but they simply are one of the most influential bands of all time and they quite obviously did do alot to change and alter the way music was working for the time. And to this day, the results of what they did do back then are still seen.

That is all.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

I think KK is a secret member of, The Church of Kurt Cobain. ;)

Personally, I like Nirvana. I don't think they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Most people who do are either teenyboppers or those who have refused to grow-up.

I think they represented the fashion of the time for teenagers, as in music, and possible attitudes and actual fashion. But i they will always be a product of their time, and nothing more.

[Kane Knight]

KK, my problem is that you severely underrate what they did do. In fact, you blatantly try to erase most of it, which I find a bit baffling.

I don't underrate them; you have blindly fellated them. Sorry. anything's going to seem underrated compared to the blind worship you have levied.

[Vastardikai]

^

I'd like to say this as I was thinking about it today.

I'll admit, I had heard of Nirvana before I heard of the Melvins. When I heard the Melvins, though, I was more impressed. If Nirvana was still around, I think they would have released their equivalent of the Melvins' "Honky" or "Stag" in an attempt to alienate the poser fanbase.

I'd also say that I like the Swans more than the Pixies, but that's just me.

I won't deny that Cobain changed mainstream rock. They are overrated, IMO. at the same time, I find Pearl Jam boring, but again that's just me.

Side note, the Fallout Boy and Panic! at the Disco Fans probably never heard the only GOOD band in that genre: At the Drive-In. First time I heard them, which was I think late 2000, I wondered to myself if that was what it was like to hear Nirvana for the first time.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Wasn't "In Utero" their attempt to "alienate the poser fanbase"?

[FakeLaser]

Yeah, and everyone loved it.

[KingofOldSchool]

Yeah, and everyone loved it.

Everyone?

[FakeLaser]

Everyone.

[KingofOldSchool]

Everyone.

No.

[Just John]

Nirvana never pushed any buttons for me, Soundgarden, AIC and DEFINATLEY Pearl Jam is just fucking incredible. But Nirvana never gave that to me. I'd put mudhoney and screaming trees in front of them as far as opinion goes.

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Bah, with the exception of "Jeremy" and "Even Flow," I've always seen Pearl Jam as a poor man's Soundgarden. Don't know why, I just do.

AIC definitly bitch-slap Nirvana into oblivion, though. Tastiness personified.

[Skippord]

AIC is the best grunge band ever

[BCWWF]

Nirvana's influence doesn't have to come from "brilliance and originality." You don't have to be brilliant or original to have an impact on the music world. There are plenty of bands today that have been influenced by Nirvana, you are all just looking at it in a closed box.

The fact is that Nivana lead the way in a major transition. The big bands in the 1980s were the likes of Poison, White Snake, Def Leppard, Mötley Crüe, Van Halen etc. The grunge movement changed the style of music people listened to and thus changed the type of music people start playing in their garage.

Of course there were other grunge bands, notably Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, but they were never as popular. Regardless if they borrowed from other bands, Nirvana was the leader in a musical revolution.

Of course Kurt Cobain gained popularity after he died. Fuck, people even started listening to Aaliyah after she died. That isn't even relevant though. The fact that people in 1991 started buying Nevermind instead of Dr. Feelgood changed how music has evolved. Whether or not Kane Knight deems it "quality" is completely objective. A band doesn't have to sound exactly like Nirvana to be impacted by them.

Nirvana's influence occurred with the release of Nevermind, not Cobain's death.

[Kane Knight]

They weren't leading edge, they were along for the ride. Which is ironic; You, after all, being the one looking at i from a closed box and all.

[KingofOldSchool]

Of course there were other grunge bands, notably Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, but they were never as popular. Regardless if they borrowed from other bands, Nirvana was the leader in a musical revolution.


Sorry there but up until Cobain's death, Pearl Jam and Nirvana were neck and neck.

After Cobain's death Nirvana ironically pulled away from everyone else according to the media.

But after 16 years or so, who is still touring and drawing massive crowds all over the World?

Yeah Pearl Jam is.

No other band in the "grunge (I FUCKING HATE that term)" scene has lasted as long as Pearl Jam has.

Nirvana - Lead singer offed himself because he knew his status would be cemented.

Soundgarden - Broke up

Alice in Chains (although they weren't really grunge) - Lead singer OD'ed

Pearl Jam - Still around and still one of the top grossing touring bands in the World.

[Skippord]

Now Alice In Chains has a crappy singer :(

[Kane Knight]

Sorry there but up until Cobain's death, Pearl Jam and Nirvana were neck and neck.

After Cobain's death Nirvana ironically pulled away from everyone else according to the media.
Yeah, it's funny. Their sales were similar, and so were their popularity levels. The day after Cobain died, Nirvana were suddenly iconic. I find it funny that people try to say otherwise, but whatever.

In terms of mathematics, record sales, Nirvana nad Pearl Jam were actually neck in neck. With like one more studio record and a live record, around the end of the year of Cobain's death they were up by two awards for sales. That's two gold awards, too. You know, for having more records out. Ten and Nevermind, the analogous records, drew about the same sales (Though Ten would eventually pull ahead for almost a full decade).

Pearl Jam is still doing better, but then again, they are still touring. And putting out new records (instead of rehashing former glory).

To be fair, smells like teen spirit as a single sold better than any PJ single.

None of that speaks to superior popularity or iconic status.

Oh, and I was more of an AIC fan, but I won't pretend that they were the iconic forerunner, either. :D

[BCWWF]

That's because Pearl Jam's music has gotten worse with every album, the same thing that would have happened to Nirvana if they stayed around. That still has nothing to do with the point. Pearl Jam, like Nirvana, made their impact on music in 1991, not 1994 and not 2007. The music scene would not be the same right now had those bands not gained massive popularity. That is when their impact took place.

[Kane Knight]

That's because Pearl Jam's music has gotten worse with every album, the same thing that would have happened to Nirvana if they stayed around. That still has nothing to do with the point. Pearl Jam, like Nirvana, made their impact on music in 1991, not 1994 and not 2007. The music scene would not be the same right now had those bands not gained massive popularity. That is when their impact took place.

So, I'm not sure who you're addressing here, but I'm wondering what's because Pearl Jam's releasing worse records. You know, because KooS said they were still drawing well in terms of tours, so I doubt that's a logical response. And I can't think of anything I just said that this would be alogical response to. Maybe I'm wrong.

Then again, this post doesn't seem logical. Nevermind got most of its certs post Cobain. Not in 1991. Not in 2007. We're talking 1994. 1995. And so on. This would seem to be contrary to the notion that their impact was 1991.