WCW Bad, WWE Good

[The Show Off]

I've been a wrestling fan for a long long time now. This is made quite obvious by the fact that I've been writing on these message boards for nearly seven years now. I've been a fan for much longer then that. When I grew up watching wrestling, I never considered myself a Hulkamaniac nor did I consider myslef a Little Warrior, nor did I get caught up in Macho Madness. Back when I became a wrestling fan I used flash the four fingers of the Horsemen, I was a Little Stinger, a fan of the Steiners and of "Flyin'" Brian Pillman. Back in those days I would rather watch WCW Saturday night then I WWF Superstars. I was a WCW/NWA fan first and a WWF fan second.

Why do I bring this all up? I bring it up because I'm sick and tired of the way the WWE treats the legacy of the NWA and WCW. In an age when the WWE is trying to market, poorly, the past of ECW as a way to make tons of money, the almost entirly omit the great contribution of the WCW. I recently bought the Four Horsemen DVD, and though a very good documentary and good matches there is something in that DVD that seems to happen with ever WWE DVD or program that they bring to the table, and it is this very simplistic notion that WCW was bad, and WWE was good.

If you haven't seen the Four Horsemen DVD the whole second half of the documentary is about how the WCW dropped the ball for almost a decade and how whenever a horseman jumped "up north" it was like the land of milk and honey. I cry complete and utter bullshit on this meger concept. If you really look at it all those guys that worked with Vince always crawled back to the WCW, why? Because it was the better wrestling show. Up until late 1997 WCW was always the far superior show, and after 1997 is it was still and incredibly close choice between the two.

On these WWE "documentaries" they talk about the curruption and politics of the old WCW, and then in the same breath they talk about how great WWE is. I know WCW had a lot of internal strife, but please WWE is by no means a meritocracy, they never have been and never will be. For most of WCW/NWA history the men that headlined their shows were the best wrestlers in the world, the likes of Flair, Steamboat, Rhodes, and Sting where headlining WCW/NWA when WWE was pushing awful wrestlers like Hogan, Andre, The Warrior, and Yokozuna.

I know the WWE will never admit that for the majority of time WCW/NWA was a far superior promotion to the WWE, but this constant sniping at the credibility of the WCW/NWA is just sickening. Whether it be saying the WCW was a joke by Jim Ross at Wrestlemania XIX or making the Monday Night War look like an utter trouncing on the side of the WWE, I'm tired of WWE disreguard for the show that they raped all there ideas from. WCW came up with an evil owner in Eric Bishoff so WWE came up with Vince McMahon, WCW came up with the nWo so WWE came up with DX, WCW was having success with Crusierweights so the WWE poorly attempted a light-heavyweight division.

I may not have a question attached to this rant but I felt that I should get it out there and see if others felt the same way.

WCW Bad, WWE Good? I don't think so.

[Goulet]

WCW 92-95 and 99-01 was absolutely awful!

[Kane Knight]

History is written by the victor.

[Jeritron]

And the victor won for a reason.

[Jeritron]

As a matter of fact you could ask anyone who ever had anything to do with the wrestling industry or the WCW itself which was the better promotion.
Except for Hogan and Bischoff, you're going to get one answer. It sucked and was tremendously flawed/doomed.
From Flair all the way to the undercard, and the announcers. They know what was going on. So do the outcasts who went on to be some of the biggest draws ever.

[Stickman]

I love all the threads that start, 'I"ve been a wrestling fan for a long time.'

[KayfabeMan]

Great article.

I loved my WCW as well, and preferred it to WWF.

Behind the scenes, let it be what it was, but in front of the camera - it was great all the way through. William Regal, DDP, Mero, Rhodes, Sting, Flair, all the AMAZING tag team wrestling, cruiserweights, Steamboat, Anderson, the international talents, etc.

WWE always likes to take away credibility from anything else going out there or anything that ever existed. Vince is a very jealous guy who can never let anyone have any credit for anything except himself.

[Londoner]

What else do you expect from Vince? He has total control of the wrestling world it seems, he can do what the fuck he wants.

[The Show Off]

I also forgot to mention that WWE stole the "Wrestlemania" concept from NWA's Starrcade. It's really all simply my opinion, but it is undeniable that the WWE is burying the legacy of the WCW/NWA. And whether you liked WCW or not you have to admit that it's not as bad at the WWE makes it out to be.

[The Show Off]

WCW 92-95 and 99-01 was absolutely awful!

I completely disagree.

[Rob]

WCW had a lot of good stuff during those periods. The bad stuff was just more memorable to the masses.

[M-A-G]

WWE doesn't have to make WCW look bad. It did that on its on.

[M-A-G]

I also forgot to mention that WWE stole the "Wrestlemania" concept from NWA's Starrcade. It's really all simply my opinion, but it is undeniable that the WWE is burying the legacy of the WCW/NWA. And whether you liked WCW or not you have to admit that it's not as bad at the WWE makes it out to be.

WrestleMania was about broadcasting a supershow to the masses with tons of celebs and tons of big name talent. Starrcade was just another show.

[The Show Off]

WrestleMania was about broadcasting a supershow to the masses with tons of celebs and tons of big name talent. Starrcade was just another show.

Starrcade was NWA's "Supershow" two years before Wrestlemania showed up. Quite frankly in they years both existed Starrcade was better then Wrestlemania more then half the time.

[Crossrine]

If anything you should be happy Vince did nothing with WCW. Look what he did with ECW. :(

[Jordan]

WCW sucked.

[The One]

Starrcade was a wrestler's supershow. WrestleMania was a sports entertainment pop culture event. Kind of hard to compare the two. Oh and if you ever start up with Starrcade being just another event, I may shit a brick and throw it through your window.

[Kane Knight]

And the victor won for a reason.

Unless the reason you have in mind is "sheer fucking luck," No.

Both companies had people at the top who knew shit, but happened to get lucky and click with certain ideas. It's more a random collision of atoms forming life than any real reason of intellect, planning, or creativity.

The actual fall of WCW didn't even really have to do with wrestling, bad booking, or ratings. WWE "won" because out of two incompetent companies, one had the plugged pulled on them for external reasons.

[Crossrine]

Originally posted by Jordan X
WCW sucked.

I agree, but you might not want to say that in this thread.

[The One]

Yeah, AOL buying out Turner's companies sure was a brilliant business move by Vince McMahon. :roll: :lol:

[Volchok]

Not even on subject but I love how on the Horsemen DVD JR was talking about the NWA title and he said something to the effects of " Back when the NWA title actually meant something" gotta love the little dig at TNA.

[FourFifty]

Not even on subject but I love how on the Horsemen DVD JR was talking about the NWA title and he said something to the effects of " Back when the NWA title actually meant something" gotta love the little dig at TNA.

That might not totally be a rip into TNA. The thing is the TNA title used to be THE title in the industry. However due to changes that shouldn't have happened, in ways it shouldn't have happened, NWA promoters were going their own way. You had too many people with their own agenda on the championship board who would vote for what made them happy and not what was good for the title.

[Volchok]

Yeah, True.

[Hanso Amore]

What is better is different to everyone. I think the best ever was NWA 1985-1989. Obviously the masses didnt agree as the NWA lost out to WCW whom lost to the WWE.

[KayfabeMan]

To be fair to TNA, the NWA Title lost a ton of credibility before they even had the belt. With Champions like Mike Rapada, Sabu, Gary Steele, etc. - even, and this'll probably get some heat - Chris Candido - the Title lost a bunch of credibility.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I never really watched WCW, but I have a certain nostalgia for the shows and angles they provided. When I picture WCW, I picture a show with an actual mid-card, that let its cruiserweights develop personalities, and get over.

I'm just watching Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Mysterio now, and I can't imagine the WWE letting Paul London and Jimmy Yang go fifteen minutes to open a PPV, with a story and credibility attached.

But KK is right, history is written by the winner. It is up to us to question it. I do think the term "stolen" is thrown around a bit too much in this thread. DX, Vince McMahon and WrestleMania could be proposed as "inspired" by their WCW counterparts, or even developed to respond to them (they were in competition and everything); stolen is such a harsh word, though.

[Blitz]

Hitler bad, Vandals good.

[Nowhere Man]

I forget who said it, but I think WCW was summed up best as "a few moments of sheer brilliance, with tons of crap in between."

[The One]

I would say WCW was consistantly the B show. However, at WCW's lowest points (I'm talking Judy Bagwell on a poll here) it pales in comparisson to WWE's crapfests. But WWE made up for it in a general overall better quality and more "iconic" matches as well as moments.

[hb2k]

I also forgot to mention that WWE stole the "Wrestlemania" concept from NWA's Starrcade. It's really all simply my opinion, but it is undeniable that the WWE is burying the legacy of the WCW/NWA.

As for "Starrcade", that concept was stolen to - Eddie Graham used the concept of "the supershow" long before NWA did.

And I'm pretty sure NWA/WCW buried the legacy of NWA/WCW. 92 Starrcade - Ron Simmons Vs. Steve Williams for the title in a mind-numingly bad match anyone? 93 - Fuck the Hollywood Blondes, lets split them up and put Charlie Norris Vs. Big Sky on Fall Brawl 93. And c'mon now, 99-2001 was a total parody of a wrestling company.

There was a period of 12-18 months when WCW was really really great television. They were hit and miss for another year, but after that, boy did that fucker tank.

[Rob]

WWF had a ton of terrible shit during the periods mentioned too.

[Loose Cannon]

WCW/NWA had a ton of awesome events, moments and matches. For most of the 80's, I was mostly a WWF fan, but went back and forth in the 90's. WCW came up with a lot of creative stuff and some shit just like any other promotion out there.

[KayfabeMan]

Throughout the 1990's, WCW consistently ranked higher than WWF in a poll of fans opinions of who had the better quality wrestling. True story.

[JT]

meh, I came in during the 98' period of wrestling, so I only have 4 years of experience with CEC, and not full years either. However, from what I do know of WCW and WWE, from both what I've seen and done in my history research (one of my pastimes). I quite frankly think when it came to WWE vs. NWA, WWE really made the bigger impact which lead to the JCP downfall, and with WCW vs. WWE, WCW's only real fault was that they were a smaller branch of a bigger company while WWE was and is WWE.

[hb2k]

Blaming AOL is a completely ridiculous excuse. The merger took place a long time before WCW died, and the bottom line is if WCW stayed as profitable as it was in 1997-1998, then they wouldn't have ditched it, simple as that. WCW killed themselves by throwing away money and with shitty booking. Bottom line.

[Hanso Amore]

They Lost so much money, not because they weren't making enough, but because they wee literally paying out guaranteed contracts to about 75-100 guys at a time. Everyone got guaranteed big money deals, that is why so many guys were in WCW. When someone went out, they collected still. They were overpaying their current roster, and still overpaying guys that had been off tv for 2 years! The top guys were pulling amazing amounts compared to today's top guys. Tips makes like 2.2 Mill a year, and he is tops. Nash was pulling like 4 mill a year if I remember correctly, Hogan like 6 or 7. They were bleeding out from contracts and when the Money stopped BOOMING, they were stilling pulling good, but they couldnt cover their overhead.

That plus a drop in ratings over a 2 year span = AOL decided to cut their ties and Make a small profit while getting rid of a liability. That is just good business on their part. It sucks, but it is.

[Theo Dious]

As for "Starrcade", that concept was stolen to - Eddie Graham used the concept of "the supershow" long before NWA did.

Yeah, and he stole the concept from Christian priests, who had been using the concept of the "supershow" every year at Easter. :shifty:

[Stickman]

So what was STarcade originally? I'm reading here that it's a supershow. Well does that mean the Champions of all the territories got together or some shit?

[hb2k]

They Lost so much money, not because they weren't making enough, but because they wee literally paying out guaranteed contracts to about 75-100 guys at a time. Everyone got guaranteed big money deals, that is why so many guys were in WCW. When someone went out, they collected still. They were overpaying their current roster, and still overpaying guys that had been off tv for 2 years! The top guys were pulling amazing amounts compared to today's top guys. Tips makes like 2.2 Mill a year, and he is tops. Nash was pulling like 4 mill a year if I remember correctly, Hogan like 6 or 7. They were bleeding out from contracts and when the Money stopped BOOMING, they were stilling pulling good, but they couldnt cover their overhead.


That was the issue though - the wrestlers weren't overpaid when business was hot. But once revenue stopped coming in because of their inept booking, those contract became a problem. And, according to Meltzer, who used to get the financial reports from WCW, even if WCW didn't pay anbody enything, they still would have lost over $40 million in 2000.

So what was STarcade originally? I'm reading here that it's a supershow. Well does that mean the Champions of all the territories got together or some shit?

No no, the idea of "this is the big show" wasn't a concept originated at Starrcade, Graham would culminate what he was doing with a show he would present to the audience as "the big event", and would happen very sporadically, but everything would always be building towards it.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Show Off, do you really expect WWE and Vince to talk highly of WCW? If I was married and had a family, it would be like me telling my kids that the guy that tried to kill me and rape their Mom really wasn't a bad guy.

[hb2k]

Also, to play devil's advocate, do you really think WWF would be being portrayed as anything special right now if Bischoff, who was hard to handle in 1998 and would have been a total egomaniac had WWF gone under, had won the war and not Vince?

[Optimus Bone 69]

I dont even watch raw or smackdown for the wrestling anymore i just watch in the vain hope that there is some funny interview segment or promo, but as the man said at the start of the topic i knew of the horsemen but not much and after watching the dvd they looked amazing and some of the few old style wrestlers who would still be top draws today.