What would you have done?

[NeanderCarl]

How bouts a thread where we look at some of the trickiest or most controversial decisions made in the wrestling business, and discuss what we would have done, looking back in hindsight??

Let's start with the obvious one: the Bret Hart Montreal Screwjob. Probably the most talked about incident of all time among the IWC, still rearing it's ugly head a decade later.

We all know the story: Bret had given his notice. The following night WCW were legally able to announce his signing on Nitro. Bret was WWF Champion. Vince wanted Bret to drop the belt so that Bret couldn't show up with it on Nitro (which he was legally unable to do anyway) or else Bischoff couldn't announce that the "WWF Champion is coming to WCW". Bret didn't want to drop the belt in Canada, and especially not to Shawn Michaels. So, Vince, Shawn, Brisco and Hebner conspired to screw Bret out of the title with a fake submission finish, because nobody could come to a compromise on how the match would end.

This is the suggestion I would have made to Bret, who had "creative control" in his last 30 days in the company.

Firstly, lower down on the card, Steve Austin and Owen Hart were battling over the Intercontinental title, with both men basically in no condition to perform, Austin still reeling from the neck injury which ultimately ended his career early, and Owen suffering from a brain bruise suffered at the hands of Ahmed Johnson.

I would have run an angle at the preview Free-For-All, in which Team Canada, Team USA, Owen, Austin, Bret and DX were involved in a massive brawl, the upshot of which would be commissioner Sgt Slaughter announcing that the main event of the evening had been changed. Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart vs Steve Austin, in a two fall match. The first fall would be for the Intercontinental title, the second for the WWF World title.

In the first fall, Austin would pin Owen for the I-C title. In the second fall, however, Bret would nail Michaels with a chair behind the referees back, and just about to pin him, when Owen Hart throws Bret out of the ring and pins Shawn to take the title.

Owen Hart would have been the new World champion, which I believe Bret would have gone for, because it would be pushing his younger brother, giving a Canadian a victory in Montreal and Michaels would be doing the job.

The next night on Raw, Owen would cement himself as the leader of The Hart Foundation in an interview, leaving Bret in the cold. Bret would then challenge Owen to a 'Loser Leaves The WWF' match on the same show, and would put Owen over on his final appearance in the WWF.

Then, if they really wanted the belt on Michaels, they could have put him over Owen at the December PPV.

This would have served to elevate Owen as the new leader of the Hart Foundation, give him a caretaker 'pat on the back' run with the belt, saved Canadian face at the Survivor Series and left Bret on cordial terms with the WWF.

[NeanderCarl]

Of course, had they used that idea, the foundations of the Mr. McMahon character would not have been formed, and the Attitude Era of Austin vs McMahon may have never come to fruition. But that's too many variables to think about, you'll melt your brain.

[Theo Dious]

Oh God, this is going to end up as another fanboy wars thread, isn't it.

[NeanderCarl]

Good point. I don't wanna hear who was in the right, who was in the wrong, who was better, who was the dickhead in all this....

...just suggestions. Suggestions for angles, matches and directions that could have been taken to avoid it.

[BigDaddyCool]

I would have done everything exactly the same way. Fuck Bret.

[Rob]

I would have had the DQ at Survivor Series as planned, next night have Michaels complain about how he got robbed of the title, as it looks like Bret and Shawn will go at it, Ken Shamrock comes out and says he had both beat on previous Raw's and demands his title shot. Build two weeks of "who will get the title shot" and in that time, Davey Boy Smith brings up how Shawn Michaels owes him a European title shot, beats him clean in a non title. Michaels complains he wants a rematch at the earliest oppotunity. Big announcement for December PPV main event the following week ends up being Bret Hart agreeing to put the title on the line against Ken Shamrock. Michaels attacks Hart and Davey makes the save. McMahon or whoever was in charge on TV then announces it's Bret vs. Shawn for the last time ever on the PPV... but also vs. Shamrock and Smith in a 4 way.

On the show, Shamrock makes Bret tap out first with the ankle lock. Everyone stops in shock like when Taz lost the ECW title in his 3 way. Bret gives the thumbs up to Shamrock, shakes Davey's hand and walks out with the crowd clapping. Davey Boy powerslams Shamrock for the pin, gets up .... Sweet Chin Music... Michaels win the title and you set up 2 title challengers in Shamrock who made the WWF champion tap out clean and then Davey who pinned that man.

Thoughts?

[NeanderCarl]

Bret was never legally obliged to work the December PPV, and would have had to obtain official permission from WCW to do so.

Apparently, he did get Bischoff's "word" that he could stay and work the next show, but we know what Bischoff's word meant at the height of the Monday night wars.

[M-A-G]

Bischoff was completely on board with holding off until December. Rob's scenario would've been totally doable. Like, fer shur.

[Goulet]

They could've had Bret go over but protect it ala Sid/Benoit (Shawn's hand under the ropes) and then have the title held up due to contreversy

[M-A-G]

Also doable. :y:

[Goulet]

I think they should've pulled a "Montreal" on Hogan at WM9 with Yokozuna, Yoko could pin him legit! Hogan couldn't have kicked Yoko's fat ass off

[M-A-G]

Or just have Bret win. ;)

[Kane Knight]

I would have lobbed a grenade into the ring, ans spare us the constant drama.

[The One]

I would have done everything exactly the same way. Fuck Bret.

The only thing I would have done differently would be ask Michaels to fart on Bret as he's in the Sharp Shooter. :D

[Rob]

Bret was never legally obliged to work the December PPV, and would have had to obtain official permission from WCW to do so.

Apparently, he did get Bischoff's "word" that he could stay and work the next show, but we know what Bischoff's word meant at the height of the Monday night wars.

You are wrong. Bret was legally tied to the WWF until the December PPV and was booked to be on that show until the day before the Survivor Series.

And just incase anyone wants to doubt me, why didn't Bret Hart show up in WCW until AFTER that December show happened if he could have been on Nitro earlier?

[Rob]

I would have lobbed a grenade into the ring, ans spare us the constant drama.

You kidding me? You see how much drama that caused on The Shield?

[Zen v.W.o.]

I would have had Bret squash HBK, and finally allow Austin to go over Bret later on. They carried the company in 97 with their AMAZING feud, and Austin was worthy of such a victory over the Hitman.

1997 was all about the Hart Foundation and Steve Austin.

[Disturbed316]

The only thing I would have done differently would be ask Michaels to fart on Bret as he's in the Sharp Shooter. :D

How do you know he didn't? ;)

[Zen v.W.o.]

How do you know he didn't? ;)


Cuz he was a pussy. He had the look of fear in his eyes and the sound of fear in his voice in his later dealings with Bret that night.

[Skippord]

God I would shoot everyone involved in the match to shut people up about it

[M-A-G]

What, and then have the WWE replicate it every other month?

[Kane Knight]

You kidding me? You see how much drama that caused on The Shield?

You mean Mackie screwed Bret?

[NeanderCarl]

You are wrong. Bret was legally tied to the WWF until the December PPV and was booked to be on that show until the day before the Survivor Series.

And just incase anyone wants to doubt me, why didn't Bret Hart show up in WCW until AFTER that December show happened if he could have been on Nitro earlier?

No compete clause?

If Bret was legally obliged to stay with WWE until the December PPV, then his "last 30 days creative control" would have not yet been in play, and he would have HAD to drop the belt to Shawn.

Additionally, WWF could have sued Bret for breach of contract for not working beyond Survivor Series (which they would surely not have had the audacity to do after the screwjob anyway, I suppose).

[Mr. Nerfect]

You mean Mackie screwed Bret?

No, Mickie screws Kenny. :shifty:

I wasn't a fan at the time, so this kind of hindsight booking is hard for me. Zen is right, though: 1997 did seem to all be about Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin. Especially when Bret Hart was leading his Hart Foundation stable. Shawn Michaels worming his way into the WWE Championship hunt seemed to be due to him being a little cock at this period in time. An entertaining cock, yes, but he was still an unreliable cock.

Stone Cold Steve Austin logically should have been the man to end Bret Hart's title reign, anyway. Hart defeats Michaels via disqualification, and Shawn Michaels isn't allowed another title shot, because he is unruly. He loses the European Championship to Ken Shamrock, and then wins the 1998 Royal Rumble, whereas Steve Austin is WWE Champion. So we get Austin defending the belt in the main event of WrestleMania XIV.

Sure, then we wouldn't have gotten the big win at a WrestleMania for Austin, but we also avoid the transference shit, where the WWE loses one top heel and puts another in position, just for poops and giggles. What really worked about the HBK vs. Austin main event was that the fans were into Austin. I don't think it would have made too much difference if he were WWE Champion heading into the match, or not. You'd still have his shit with Mike Tyson, and HBK being a wormy cunt, and whatnot.

Austin retains the WWE Title in the main event of WrestleMania, and then we continue things as per usual.

[Rob]

No compete clause?

If Bret was legally obliged to stay with WWE until the December PPV, then his "last 30 days creative control" would have not yet been in play, and he would have HAD to drop the belt to Shawn.

Additionally, WWF could have sued Bret for breach of contract for not working beyond Survivor Series (which they would surely not have had the audacity to do after the screwjob anyway, I suppose).


There was no "no complete clause".

Nobody HAS to drop titles. Not like Michaels has done his fair share. What is right for business and what you are legally obligated to do are two entirely different things.

WWF could NOT have sued Bret for not working beyong Survivor Series because not only did they breach his contract (which is a fact that Vince McMahon admitted he did), they didn't book him to any shows. Hard to no show when you aren't booked to appear.

[NeanderCarl]

Well, Survivor Series was never supposed to be Bret's last stand, so he MUST have been booked further down the line, and if I recall correctly, plan/suggestion was for a Fatal Fourway match at the December PPV, in which Bret would drop the title, until the screwjob happened.

But this thread isn't to argue about the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of it all, just to see how it could have been different.

Anyone care to offer up a different 'What would you have done?' scenario?

[Goulet]

The Bret/Yoko/Hogan fiasco at WMIX

[The One]

For that one...

Yoko pins Bret, Hogan challenges, Yoko eats Hogan and on LIVE PPV proceeds to shit him out. Luger pins Yoko the next night.

[Dave Youell]

I think given the scenario, that was booked about as well as it could of been. Seeing how Hogan was a dick and all

[NeanderCarl]

I would have refused to put the title on Hogan in the first place. McMahon obviously thought he could manage without him anyway, because he basically pushed him out later in the year, so he shouldn't have caved in to his demands to take the title. In fact, I would have kept the belt on Bret anyway, it wouldn't have even gotten as far as Yokozuna.

[FourFifty]

I would have hyped up the Screw Job.
The following night after the screwjob Vince should have come out and cut a work-shoot promo where he talks about how Bret Hart must have been out of his mind to believe he was going to leave with the title that fed the people who held the title, supported their children, bought their suit clothing, and made the WWF what it was.
He says he did it for all right right reasons. It would dishonor everyone who has held the WWF title if Bret would have taken the title to WCW. I don't think Vince would have been in a place to name drop at that point since most of the big name former WWF champs were at WCW.


Or how about this.... Raw starts out with highlights of the screwjob. Start the into music, and then Vince comes down to the ring with the WWF title on his shoulder at the start of the show.

"My Great Grandfather started promoting wrestling back before I was a twinkle in my father, Vincent James McMachon's eye. Do you think I'm going to let some ungreatful sonofa bitch take that title to away from the company that he started? Four generations of McMachons have been a part of this, and I'm not going to let Bret Hart ruin that for me!
I'm not going to let Bret Hart ruin it wrestlers who have fought for this title. I'm not going to let Bret Hart tarnish Superfly Jimmy Snuka's name! I'm not going to let Bret Hart besmirch Classy Freddie Blassy's history! I'm not going to let Bret Hart hurt Rick Rude's image! I'm not going to let Bret Hart ruin the memory of Andre the Giant! I'm not going to let Bret Hart ruin the title that was held by Buddy Rogers, Bruno Sarminito, Bob Backlund, Billy Grahm, and everyone else who has even come close to that title!
This is the WWF! This is the WWF title! This is the night we crown a new WWF Champion, and this, ladies and gentlemen, is MONDAY NIGHT RAW!!!!"

Cut to a break, camera comes back in Vince's office. HBK is bitching about how he should be champion. Owen and Davey Boy come in screaming at Vince about the screwjob. Ken Shamrock comes in saying he should get a title shot, same with Steve Austin, and a few other following suit. Vince says there will be a 10 man over the top battle royal. The last two men will have a one on one match. Why? The 10 man battle royal is next, and the one on one match is the main event.

HBK wins the battle royal, but loses the title match to Owen Hart.
They go from there.